Bella Mackie joins Gaby for a natter about all things joy.

They discuss her new novel and why she has been working on it for such a long time. She also reveals how her Dad is very instrumental in the writing process!

There's also a bit of running chat too - and some good mental health advice as well.

You can find out more about Bella's new novel here

And see Gaby and Bella being a bit silly over on her instagram!

(you can also follow Bella too)

We hope you enjoy the episode!

(and if you do, please like, follow and subscribe - and leave us a little comment too. Remember, we also have a YouTube channel now as well, so you can watch the podcasts if you so desire...)

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