Many of the problems we care most about cannot be solved by a single organization. That insight helped John Kania develop Collective Impact, a framework for bringing people together around shared goals. But over time, Kania noticed that coordination alone was not enough. Even when groups made progress, the deeper patterns of the system often remained unchanged. In this episode, Dart and John discuss the evolution of systems change thinking and why lasting change requires more than alignment, strategy, and good intentions.

John Kania is Executive Director of Collective Change Lab, a nonprofit that develops new approaches to collaboration and systems change. He is a leading thinker on collective impact, systems leadership, and the relational work of creating social change.

In this episode, Dart and John discuss:
- Problems no one can solve alone
- Why good intentions often fail
- The limits of coordination
- What keeps systems stuck
- The hidden power of mental models
- Why relationships drive change
- The challenge of sharing power
- What leadership looks like in uncertainty
- The role of healing in systems change
- Why changing systems means changing ourselves
- Building islands of coherence
- And other topics…

John Kania is Executive Director of Collective Change Lab, a nonprofit focused on advancing transformational systems change practices. He previously served as Global Managing Director of FSG, where he helped develop and popularize the concept of collective impact. John is co-author of the influential Stanford Social Innovation Review articles Collective Impact, The Dawn of System Leadership, and The Relational Work of Systems Change, as well as The Water of Systems Change. His work focuses on helping people and organizations collaborate across boundaries to address complex social challenges.

Resources Mentioned:
Collective Impact, by John Kania, Mark Kramer, and Peter Senge: https://ssir.org/articles/entry/collective_impact
The Dawn of System Leadership, by John Kania, Mark Kramer, and Peter Senge: https://ssir.org/articles/entry/the_dawn_of_system_leadership
The Relational Work of Systems Change, by John Kania, Jennifer Splansky Juster, and Peter Senge: https://ssir.org/articles/entry/the_relational_work_of_systems_change
The Water of Systems Change, by David Peter Stroh, John Kania, Mark Kramer, and others: https://www.fsg.org/resource/water_of_systems_change/
Collective Change Lab: https://collectivechangelab.org/

Connect with John:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-kania-1a294020/

Work with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.