“Our history is not a history of divide. Our history is a history of coming together in greater and greater numbers.” - john a. powell

In this special bonus episode, Thomas sits down with john a. powell, law professor and Director of the Othering and Belonging Institute, to investigate the root causes and social function of “othering.”

Humans are wired for connection, and according to john, othering is actually an unfortunate byproduct of our desire to belong and survive within a specific group.

He and Thomas explore how storytelling has shaped the trajectory of human evolution, and how we can embrace our inherent interconnectedness to write more inclusive and peaceful stories for our shared future.

If you’d like to hear the full conversation between john and Thomas, it’s one of over 30 talks included in the upcoming Collective Trauma Summit 2025. Click on the link below to register for this free online event.

✨ Click here to watch the video version of this episode on YouTube:

👉 https://youtu.be/-uODI5ZgU1w

Video episodes are typically posted at 8am PT/ 11am ET

✨ Join Thomas, john a. powell, and over 40 expert leaders in trauma-healing, embodiment, somatics, and social change for 7 days of embodied practices, guided reflection, and powerful interviews at the Collective Trauma Summit 2025.

This free, online event will help you deepen your understanding of trauma, learn practices for deeper presence, regulation, and compassion, and connect with a supportive global community.

The Summit begins on October 12.

Register for free here 👉 https://collectivetraumasummit.com

Subscribe to Thomas Hübl's channel for wisdom on healing, awakening, and transforming yourself and the world: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8aSR_qI6MCIJkGJfPn1RvQ?sub_confirmation=1

For more episodes of the Point of Relation podcast, visit: https://pointofrelationpodcast.com/

✨ john a. powell is Director of the Othering and Belonging Institute and Professor of Law, African American, and Ethnic Studies at UC Berkeley. He has led institutes focused on race and poverty at Ohio State and the University of Minnesota, and formerly served as National Legal Director of the ACLU. A co-founder of the Poverty & Race Research Action Council, he is known for developing frameworks of “targeted universalism” and “othering and belonging” to effect equity-based interventions.

Connect with john here:

👉 https://belonging.berkeley.edu

Thomas Hübl, PhD, is a renowned teacher, author, and international facilitator who works within the complexity of systems and cultural change, integrating the core insights of the great wisdom traditions and mysticism with the discoveries of science. Since the early 2000s, he has led large-scale events and courses on the healing of collective trauma. 

In addition to Attuned, he is the author of Healing Collective Trauma: A Process for Integrating Our Intergenerational and Cultural Wounds. He has served as an advisor and guest faculty for universities and organizations, as a coach for CEOs and organizational leaders, and is currently a visiting scholar at the Wyss Institute at Harvard University.

✨ Connect with Thomas here:

Website: https://thomashuebl.com/

Facebook: https://facebook.com/Thomas.Huebl.Sangha/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thomashuebl/

Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/ThomasHuebl

YouTube: https://youtube.com/@thomashuebl

✨ Order Thomas Hübl’s newest book, “Attuned: Practicing Interdependence to Heal Our Trauma–And Our World,” here:

👉 https://www.attunedbook.com/ 

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