Brian Stelter and Nilay Patel are both covering big, powerful institutions that are undergoing real change, whether they like it or not.

Stelter, CNN’s chief media analyst, joins me to talk about the mess at CBS News and 60 Minutes: What is Bari Weiss’s rationale for trying to remake Paramount’s news operations? And does owner David Ellison care about the very inevitable stumbles that have followed since she showed up? We talk about Scott Pelley’s public exit interview, what 60 Minutes might look like next fall, and why this has morphed from a media industry story to one normal people seem to care about.

Also discussed: The fact that Stelter could end up working for Weiss in the near future.

Then Nilay Patel, editor-in-chief of The Verge, joins from Apple’s Worldwide Developers Conference, where Apple tried to convince everyone that it has an AI plan — and why that plan is different and better than the one it promised in 2024 and never delivered. A new Siri — if it works as advertised — sounds great. But what’s really important for Apple's AI strategy, Patel argues, is prepping for a future where the iPhone gets displaced by… something.

Also discussed: The fact that Vox Media, the company that owns both The Verge and the podcast network you’re listening to right now, are about to split up.

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