What if the key to a meaningful life isn’t doing more—but doing less, with intention? In this powerful conversation, Michael and Megan talk with Oliver Burkeman, author of Four Thousand Weeks and Meditations for Mortals, about the myths of productivity, the illusion of control, and why accepting our finite nature might be the best thing we can do for our peace, purpose, and productivity.

Memorable Quotes

1. “It's the relaxation of now I can just do the things that matter the most… I can just sort of dive in because I'm no longer trying to make all my actions feel like they are part of some process of eventually getting to total domination of my time and perfect optimization.”
2. “You are being confronted again with this ridiculous thing that it is to be a human—which is to be capable of imagining basically an infinite amount of possibilities and eventualities, but ultimately being a sort of finite material animal and having to choose only some of them.”
3. “Almost everybody who is trying to sort of optimize themselves into absolute control, you know, they're not succeeding. Life is miserable and they're letting people down all over the place.”
4. “There isn't any system or philosophy or approach or sports nutrition drink that is going to enable you to sort of win the battle with human limitation… Now, we figure out how to flourish in absolutely fantastic and wonderfully meaningful and interesting and lucrative ways within those limitations rather than running away from them.”
5. “There's a way of going with the flow that is actually more constructive and productive as well as more peaceful and meaningful.”
6. “I really found that just sort of expecting discomfort from things that matter to me—whether that is a piece of work or an aspect of relationships or parenting—just knowing that it's going to feel uncomfortable sometimes because it's bringing me to my edge and my limitations makes a huge, huge difference.”
7. “A lot of our productivity is the result of anxiety. And I would like to live a productive life for other reasons.”

Key Takeaways

1. Radical Acceptance is Key. Once you stop trying to win the battle with your human limitations, everything changes.
2. Distraction is Avoidance in Disguise. Most often, we’re dodging discomfort—and the way out lies in tolerating discomfort.
3. Optimization is Not Salvation. We think we can problem-solve our lives, but tools and systems will always fall short. They’re meant to augment, not make us infinite.
4. Meaning is Here, Now. The moments that build a life don’t happen  when everything is done—but in the doing itself.

Resources

• 4,000 Weeks: Time Management for Mortals by Oliver Burkeman
• Meditations for Mortals by Oliver Burkeman
• The Imperfectionist (Newsletter)

Watch on YouTube at:  https://youtu.be/571YmI5h_Cs

This episode was produced by Sarah Vorhees Wendel of VW Sound

What if the key to thriving isn’t managing your circumstances perfectly—but rooting yourself in the connections that matter most? In this heartfelt conversation, Michael and Megan talk with Elizabeth Oldfield, author of Fully Alive, about reclaiming depth, community, and soul-level steadiness in a culture addicted to speed and distraction. Elizabeth draws on ancient wisdom, modern insight, and her own experience living in intentional community to offer a hopeful path forward.

Memorable Quotes

1. “You need to put your roots down deep into love and work out how to find some steadiness.”

2. “When we are honest about our full humanity, we give other people permission to do that, and that's a necessary starting point for actually growing up our souls rather than pretending that we all know what we’re doing and we’re holding it all together.”

3. “Where we put our attention is essentially who we become.”
   “I have this sense that fully aliveness is in connection, deep connection, horizontally and vertically.”

4. “Hurrying and destruction are not how we flourish, and we’re constantly being encouraged to do those things. So we need to provide some counter pressure towards slowness and steadiness and presence.”

Key Takeaways

1. Connection Is the Core of Flourishing. Relationships—messy, costly, inconvenient—are where we become more fully human.
2. Attention Shapes Who You Become. Distraction isn’t just a nuisance; it’s a soul-shaping force. Guard your focus.
3. Structure Time Around Your Values. A “rule of life” puts what matters most in place first, so the rest fits around it.
4. Commitment Fuels Depth. Vulnerability without commitment fizzles; together they form lasting community.
5. Ancient Practices Still Work. Sabbath, liturgy, and shared rhythms anchor us in what endures.

Resources

• Fully Alive by Elizabeth Oldfield
• The Sacred podcast by Elizabeth Oldfield

Watch on YouTube at:  https://youtu.be/-anckhHSdHM

This episode was produced by Sarah Vorhees Wendel of VW Sound

After experiencing burnout and adrenal fatigue, author and entrepreneur Chris Ducker realized hustling harder wasn’t the answer. He gets candid about burnout, recovery, and why joy-filled practices are essential for leaders who want to last. Two of his favorites: bonsai gardening and birdwatching. He also makes a compelling case for getting outside. It’s a refreshing invitation back to an embodied, sustainable way of life.

Memorable Quotes

1. “I hadn't necessarily been burning the candle on both ends. But what I had been doing was a little too much of pretty much everything.”
2. “You don't need to break in order to take a break.”
3. “Self-care actually is a strategy, and it's a strategy that you can use to your advantage, particularly from a business owner standpoint.”
4. “Ultimately you're the engine, you're the spark, you're the difference maker. But even engines need a little maintenance.”
5. “Hobbies, particularly creative hobbies, if you spend a minimum of two hours a week on your hobby, you will be as much as 30% more productive in your work.”
6. “Any kind of success that costs you your health or your family or your joy isn't really actually success.”
7. “We want that big win, that big roar. And you only get that by being really consistent and the real game here is patience. It's consistency, it's showing up when it's not sexy, when it's not flashy, it's doing the unsexy work.”

Key Takeaways

1. Burnout Isn’t Just Overwork. Stress from life, context, and even unsustainable pace can take you down. Your body always keeps the score.
2. Self-Care Is Strategy. Leaders last when they guard their health and energy—because even engines need maintenance.
3. Hobbies Heal. Joyful pastimes don’t just prevent burnout; they restore creativity and can boost productivity by up to 30%.
4. Step Outside. Just 15 minutes in nature can reset your mind and body. Make it nonnegotiable.
5. Small Shifts, Big Change. Consistent micro moves compound into lasting transformation.

Resources

• The Long Haul Leader by Chris Ducker
• Youpreneur community

Watch on YouTube at:  https://youtu.be/GOLw7Vz4kRA

This episode was produced by Sarah Vorhees Wendel of VW Sound

If your conversations are starting to feel more like combat, you’re not alone. In this powerful episode, Michael and Megan sit down with Jefferson Fisher—trial attorney, social media sensation, and author of The Next Conversation—to talk about the small shifts that create major breakthroughs in communication. From regulating your nervous system to choosing connection over triumph, this episode is packed with practical, actionable tools you can use today.

Memorable Quotes

1. “When you set out to win an argument, you often will lose the relationship. If you only see it as something to win, that means you’re going to lose a lot more.”
2. “Who wants to be around the person who always has to be right? That is somebody who is lonely.”
3. “Instead of seeing arguments as something to win, you see them as something to unravel.”
4. “You don’t have to like it. You just gotta understand it.”
5. “That’s the key with connection: I can disagree with you and still connect with you. I can still be unhappy, I can still be mad at you, and still connect with you.”
6. “You are in complete control of the pace of the conversation.”
7. “When you don’t say it with control, you end up reacting rather than responding. It’s just your natural fight or flight will take over and you’re going to start responding more emotionally.”
8. “You gotta let them pour it all out before they’ll ever be willing to accept anything that you say.”

Key Takeaways

1. Arguments Aren’t Battles. If your goal is to win, you’ve already lost. Reframe arguments as something to unravel, not conquer.
2. Start With Self-Control. Nervous system regulation is the key to effective communication—especially when things get tense.
3. Use “Small Talks.” Short, verb-based phrases like “be still” or “practice kindness” can center you in high-stakes conversations.
4. Connection > Agreement. We don’t always have to be on the same page to cultivate a meaningful relationship.
5. Confidence Follows Action. Speak with assertiveness, not apology. Confidence grows as you use your voice.

Resources

• The Next Conversation: Argue Less, Talk More
• Jefferson Fisher on Instagram
• The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Watch on YouTube at:  https://youtu.be/kJsQe3S3rw0

This episode was produced by Sarah Vorhees Wendel of VW Sound

What do you do when business feels hard—and you assume it’s your fault? In this raw and rich conversation, Michael and Megan sit down with Dave Ramsey to talk about what really goes into building a business that lasts. Drawing from his 30+ year journey with Ramsey Solutions, Dave shares stories of failure, clarity, succession, and the slow handoff of legacy—along with what most founders get wrong about growth. If you’ve ever felt behind, discouraged, or unsure how to lead your business into the future, this episode will show you the next light on the path.

Memorable Quotes

1. “The dirty little secret is: Everyone’s money is messed up.”
2. “As long as I can clearly see the next step, it gives me tremendous energy and focus and hope.”
3. “We’ve learned with all the bruises to look for the next thing but not to sell out to it.”
4. “You gotta change the word. The word is: I experimented. I didn’t fail.”
5. “You give other people the credit when things are right and take the hit when things are wrong. Because it is your job as the leader.”
6. “People are our greatest blessing and they also give us the most trouble.”
7. “I have to constantly stop and say: Let them do it. You did hand it off. Don’t take it back. They’re doing okay.”

Key Takeaways

1. Business Is Hard. If you’re a small business owner struggling to make it all work, you’re in really good company. The struggle is normal, and you’re not alone.
2. Cut Through the Fog. You don’t need to know the whole path. You just need enough clarity to light your next steps.
3. Good News: You’re the Problem. If your business is stuck, look in the mirror. That’s not shame—it’s a solvable problem.
4. Succession Starts Now. Planning for legacy doesn’t mean you’re quitting. It means you’re a good steward. Whether you have five team members or 500, the time to start is now.

Resources

• Build a Business You Love by Dave Ramsey
• The Ramsey Show
• Ramsey Solutions
•  EntreLeadership

Watch on YouTube at:  https://youtu.be/oOoV5G1Zi8E

This episode was produced by Sarah Vorhees Wendel of VW Sound

What if the answer to your overwhelm isn’t a new planner or app—but a walk around the block, a shared meal, or a Saturday spent gardening? In this episode, Michael and Megan sit down with Arthur Boers, author of Living into Focus and Shattered, to talk about the kind of practices that help us resist the pressure of a hyperconnected world and even heal from generational trauma by reconnecting to what matters most. If you’ve ever longed to feel more grounded, whole, or present, this conversation will give you the language—and tools—you’ve been missing.

Memorable Quotes

1. “Technoloy itself is not the problem. Technology is human manipulation of nature for human priorities… The question is: Do we master technology or does technology master us?”
2. “What we ought to do is raise the thresholds against things that are not the priority… And then the other thing is lower the threshold for things that are your priorities."
3. “Focal practice is just helping us reclaim things that we knew or did before and helping us prioritize them, helping us have a different perspective on them.”
4. “Compassion is the way forward. It doesn’t help to school people who are struggling with these things—but to listen to them with patience and kindness and compassion can, in fact, make a difference.”
5. “Focal practices are about getting away from just acting automatically. That’s how I was raised: If you act automatically, it’s right. You’re justified… I’ve had to unlearn that.”
6. “It means a willingness to live with ambiguity and to live with pain and to live with things that aren’t resolved and hold there—that’s a hard learning.”

Key Takeaways

1. Focal Practices Are More Than Habits. Focal practices aren’t just routines—they’re meaningful rhythms that require intentionality, foster connection, and reorient us to what matters most.
2. Technology Calls For Discernment. Technology isn’t going anywhere—but the way we engage with it should be thoughtful. The key to balance? Honest conversations in community.
3. We Need Yellow Lights. In a culture of nonstop green lights (and plenty of red-light alarmism), we need more yellow lights—space to pause, reflect, and consider what’s truly right for the moment.
4. Brake Your Enthusiasm. Eager to dive headfirst into focal practices? That’s your cue to slow down. Start small, stay consistent, and let the benefits build over time.
5. An Unexpected Path to Healing. Focal practices don’t just bring focus—they can bring healing. By creating spaces of safety, embodiment, and rhythm, they can support recovery from trauma and help us move toward greater wholeness.

Resources

• Living into Focus by Arthur Boers
• Shattered: A Memoir by Arthur Boers
• The Way is Made by Walking by Arthur Boers
• ArthurBoers.com

Watch on YouTube at:  https://youtu.be/ypJvOm0z8IU

This episode was produced by Sarah Vorhees Wendel of VW Sound

What if your health breakthrough doesn’t start in the gym or the kitchen—but in your mind?

In this powerful conversation, Michael and Megan sit down with Dr. Josh Axe to explore why so many people feel stuck in cycles of stress, illness, or plateau—and how to shift toward real, lasting wellness. Drawing from his background in functional medicine and personal experience with a life-altering spinal infection, Dr. Axe shares the most overlooked key to healing and how you can start applying it today.

Memorable Quotes

1. “The number one determining factor of longevity for you is having strong relationships.”
2. “If you wake up first thing in the morning and get outside, it’s one of the single greatest things you can do for longevity and your microbiome.”
3. “This is all about training your nervous system and encouraging your body that ‘This is going to happen.’”
4. “There’s a lot of people that win at all costs, but they never end up winning. We hear all the stories. They’re never truly winning.”

Key Takeaways

1. The Biology of Belief. What you believe about your body impacts everything from gut function to recovery speed. Healing starts with mindset.
2. The Root of the Issue. Many chronic health challenges are driven by unresolved trauma—and show up in unexpected places like digestion and fatigue.
3. The Power of Visualization. Mentally rehearsing health and healing isn’t “woo-woo”—it’s neuroscience.
4. Top Four Longevity Habits. Hear from an expert what four rituals can add years to your life.

Resources

• Think This, Not That by Dr. Josh Axe
• DrAxe.com
• Ancient Nutrition
• You Are the Placebo by Dr. Joe Dispenza

Watch on Youtube at:  https://youtu.be/2-dvOt-zcdM

This episode was produced by Sarah Vorhees Wendel of VW Sound

What is a calling? How does it shape our work and life? What’s the hidden cost of pursuing it (and what can we do about it)? In this engaging, high-energy conversation, Michael and Megan sit down with Dr. Arianna Molloy—calling researcher, author, and professor—to unpack the power and pitfalls of purpose-driven work.

Arianna reveals the four key elements of a true calling, practical safeguards to prevent burnout, and three concrete shifts anyone in any field can make to start experiencing a greater sense of purpose and meaning at work.  She also explains why humility—not just passion—is the key to sustainable success. If you’ve ever struggled to balance meaningful work with a healthy life, this episode is a must-listen.

Memorable Quotes

1. “Burnout from a calling isn’t just, ‘I don’t know what I’m doing anymore.’ It’s, ‘I don’t know who I am anymore.’”
2. “To learn how to rest well, to learn how to have good boundaries actually protects that healthy sense of your calling.”
3. “It is so important that work is not all that you have and all that you are because, guess what? At the end of the day, [your work] is going to change and shift… If we hold that with a closed hand, it’s not going to go well.”
4. “[Calling is] really relational. It’s a relationship with yourself, the caller, and it’s a relationship with the community that you impact.”
5. “Most of the time, [calling] happens upon reflection… In the moment, it’s not so obvious. This subtle sense of peace, or just a feeling like, ‘I think this is right.’”
6. “We don’t honor that need and importance of play as much as we could.”
7. “The lynchpin is humility. Part of humility is the willingness to learn more, to know that you don’t know everything and that is not a threat—it’s actually exciting.”

Key Takeaways

• The Bright and Dark Sides of Calling. A strong sense of purpose can fuel motivation, but without boundaries, it can also lead to burnout and identity loss.
• The Four Elements of a True Calling. Calling isn’t just about passion—it requires meaning, an identified caller, skill development, and a connection to community.
• How to Reframe Your Work. Even if your current job doesn’t feel like a calling, job crafting—adjusting your tasks, relationships, or mindset—can create a deeper sense of meaning.
• The Role (and Definition) of Humility. True calling requires both confidence in your strengths and an openness to growth and makes it possible to step away from work without guilt.
• The Power of Rest. Sustainable success isn’t just about doing more—it’s about recognizing your limits and practicing the right kind of rest to restore energy and creativity.

Resources

• Healthy Calling by Arianna Molloy
• Arianna Molloy’s Website
• Connect on LinkedIn

Watch on YouTube at:  https://youtu.be/upMwbYdyViw

This episode was produced by Sarah Vorhees Wendel of VW Sound

Entrepreneurship promises freedom—but it also comes with a unique set of challenges that many don’t talk about. In this episode, The Double Win Show welcomes Bryan and Shannon Miles, co-founders of Belay and the nonprofit O’nr, to pull back the curtain on what it really takes to build a thriving business without losing yourself in the process.

From hiring their first virtual assistant in 2011 (who later became CEO!) to navigating the emotional weight of selling a business, Bryan and Shannon share their hard-won lessons on leadership, transitions, and making decisions that align with your values.

Memorable Quotes

1. “Here’s the magic phrase: ‘In order to be faithful to my existing commitments, I have to say no.’”
2. “I am responsible for myself and my leadership. And I know that if I extend myself too far, I’m not the best version of who I want to be.”
3. “If I’m saying yes to everything and I’m overcommitting and my schedule is absolutely full, there’s no space for creativity. There’s no space for dreaming. There’s no space for new ideas or realizations.”
4. “A lot of business owners are lonely, actually isolated.”
5. “As leaders, part of our job is just kind of to help people settle and know they’re safe.”
6. “Stewardship is just simply managing something for a season of time… While we’re there with our employees and leaders, we’re stewarding our relationships with them.”

Key Takeaways

1. The Loneliness of Leadership. If you’re feeling isolated as a business owner, there’s good news: You’re not the only one.
2. The Skill of Saying No. Implement this mental shift to help you stop overcommitting without the guilt.
3. Getting Buy-In For Change. What leaders get wrong when making major business changes—and what to do to help your team ride the wave.
4. Living Your Priorities Today. Why Bryan and Shannon took a vacation nine months after starting a business—and the opportunity that followed.
5. The Operator/Owner Difference. Are you owning a business or trapped in it?

Resources

• Belay Solutions
• O’nr
• NoFo Brew

Watch on YouTube at:  https://youtu.be/pGdaYmIJPHk

This episode was produced by Sarah Vorhees Wendel of VW Sound