Today’s topic is so essential: negotiation! It has always been important. As our markets have  been shifting and industry changes are happening, we need to go back to remembering the basic  and core tenets of good negotiation while also understanding the nuanced parts of that shift  within the market and the specific needs of our clients. 

My guest today, Evan Fuchs, is a 28-year award-winning REALTOR® and industry leader from  Bullhead City, Arizona. Negotiation is one of those topics we need to learn about all the time.  Unless you’re writing a book on negotiation, I suggest more education is helpful. I love learning  from skilled negotiators wherever I come across their books or meet them, like Evan or even some  of my clients, who teach me new ideas and angles to consider in my negotiation. Evan and I both  believe in the long-term value of win-win negotiations in real estate. 

Evan shares insights on building relationships and finding mutually beneficial outcomes. We  discuss the importance of offering options, how crucial it is to get professional training, and the  value of tangible and intangible negotiation elements. Evan will tell you what those are. Let’s learn together! 

We are releasing this interview in two episodes. This is Part 1. 

[2:04] I am so glad to have Evan Fuchs with us today on the podcast! Welcome, Evan! 

[2:12] Evan is one of the very successful nice guys! If you ever get to meet Evan, talk to him. He’s  delightful, smart, and friendly. We’re going to talk about negotiation, and he is the perfect person to have  with us to talk about relationship negotiation because he’s kind and respectful. 

[2:33] We will discuss a win-win negotiation atmosphere and why that’s good. Evan, you’re a 28-year  veteran, broker-owner, board member extraordinaire, association president, and winner! (Evan says that  introduction will put a pep in his step!) 

[3:05] Monica describes her impostor-fighter shelf of awards and statues that remind her that she’s  awesome at her job and connected. She recommends you have a shelf like that, and whenever you need  a boost, look at your shelf and say, ‘Yeah, I got this’! 

[3:35] Evan heard Monica talk about the importance of celebrating in one of her podcast episodes. Evan  is totally about celebrating, even little victories.  

[3:52] The win-win negotiation model is a mindset that negotiators adopt. Instead of trying to compete  against somebody, they take responsibility for building a good relationship with the other negotiator to  work together to find good outcomes for everybody. 

[4:47] Sometimes, one party does get a better deal, but can you do something to let the other party feel  like they also have a good outcome?

[5:14] Dan says that options give us power. If I have the myopic view that this is the outcome that’s good  for me, and I can’t get you to agree with that, then the deal’s dead, but if we can work together and try to  find other ways, then we have a chance of keeping the deal alive and getting to the closing table. 

[5:42] It’s about how to help you get what you want so I can get what I want. Let’s create many ways to  get there and find the best one. 

[5:51] Everybody wants a deal. You may be working with a client looking at a transaction like a war. You  have to help them find options and negotiate so both parties are happy with the outcome. Monica reminds  agents that we must train ourselves and our clients to negotiate well. 

[7:06] Evan says that one out of four buyers want their buyer’s agent, above everything else, to negotiate  for them. They would rather you be a good negotiator than be good at finding them a house. Monica  invites you to improve your negotiating skills. Promote them as part of your value. 

[8:43] In this episode, we will keep the buyer’s agent negotiating with the seller’s agent for their clients as  our context. In Episode 2, we will discuss the agents negotiating with their clients for various things. 

[10:09] Evan explains the tangibles and intangibles of negotiation. The top-line purchase price is tangible.  There can also be a concession further down in the contract. That is also tangible and measurable. The  things you put in the blanks on a contract refer to something measurable and tangible. 

[11:21] Price is just one element of the negotiation. Think of the price, terms, and everything else involved  in the negotiation as representing a value package. Look at the bottom-line number and what you  exchange to get to that number. That’s when you deal with both tangibles and intangibles. 

[12:23] Value negotiating is where I offer something to you that’s of higher value to you than it is to me.  This could be like moving up the closing date if you are in a hurry. We trade it for something of low value  to you but high value to me. That creates a win. 

[14:00] One of Monica’s favorite negotiations was between a buyer who offered under the listing price and  a seller who wanted the list price. She wrote a contract with an expiration time that if the seller could get  the list price from another buyer within a week, they could do that; otherwise, they would accept this offer. 

[15:41] Evan considers that a smart, creative negotiation. Monica’s client did get the house after a week,  while the seller had time to find another offer, which did not come.  

[16:08] Evan notes that considering the options takes time. To develop that kind of strategy, be prepared,  know what you’re doing, and spend time with the market, the property, and the client. Spend time,  especially with your client, so you don’t miss the options that may be meaningful to them. 

[17:14] Monica thinks some agents don’t realize that the agent-to-agent relationship is valuable. The  buyer’s agent has some influence when the seller’s agent is looking at multiple offers. The relationship  history matters both in large markets and small ones. 

[19:13] Monica and Evan discuss how personal property becomes a negotiating point. Monica says  agents in Tennessee must let their buyers and sellers negotiate personal property. Evan believes the  furniture owner places a higher value on it than the buyer.

[20:42] Monica cautions her listeners that if you negotiate anything beyond appliances and attached  things, make sure you talk to your broker and know how that works in your state and local market. 

[21:11] Evan says intangibles are things that can’t be measured, that you can’t quantify. Is this a fair  deal? How are you treating me? Are you ethical? Intangibles can be felt as opposed to being measured.  Every negotiator has both tangible and intangible interests in every negotiation. We’re human, and we  care. 

[21:56] Adding intangible value to a negotiation does add value even though you can’t put a dollar on it.  Build a personal relationship with your client. Know what’s essential to the other person and spend time  with that. That adds value. Treating the other person might get you a concession in the contract. 

[23:15] Everybody has things that are important to them. So, the more you know the other party… use it  to your client’s advantage, which is your job. You owe that to your clients to do that, as long as it’s ethical  and honest. We need to put everything into it that we can. Adding those intangibles is part of it. 

[23:50] Monica shares another negotiating example. She called an agent who had just lost the family dog.  She asked, “How can I help prepare the paperwork for our deal? I see you’re having a difficult day.” If  Monica finds out that an agent needs something, and she can fill it quickly, why wouldn’t she offer? 

[24:58] Evan calls that win-win language, offering to work as a team. It doesn’t take anything away from  your client. It’s also called being a good human! 

[25:59] If you’re not people-oriented and trying to negotiate with someone who is, it’s like you’re bringing  friction to the table. You’ve got to take responsibility and adjust how you show up for this person and  make them feel more comfortable. 

[26:16] Because Monica’s a people person, sometimes she has to tell herself to “zip it” and do her job  because she sees the other person doesn’t want to chat today. 

[27:06] Evan talks about the negotiation environment. You have to know the numbers; you have to know  your market. As a market professional seeking to get paid to represent clients, you have to know it. Evan  refers to the pandemic lockdown and how, after that, buyers went gangbusters. 

[27:47] There were way too many buyers trying to buy the same houses. That led to the seller’s market.  It’s our job to help our clients, and sometimes the other negotiators, understand the market dynamics so  they understand their negotiating position. Once they do, then you can move on to strategy. 

[28:15] Our opportunity to shine is helping our clients develop a negotiating strategy once they  understand their position. Evan gives the example of explaining to a buyer what it looks like to buy in a  seller’s market with multiple offers, bidding wars, and buyers getting creative to sweeten the pot. 

[29:06] Before you start showing houses, your buyer needs to understand that so they know how to  behave once they get into the market if they want to buy. When the right house comes up at the right  moment, they need to know how the market affects their position. 

[29:34] Monica now calls the market an artificial buyer’s market. In some towns, at some price points,  houses stay on the market for a little while longer. But we’re not at that four-to-six-month range for most  people.

[29:51] In an extreme market, where one party is at an extreme disadvantage, and the other is at an  extreme advantage, negotiators can help look for a win-win. It won’t be in the money because the  extreme advantage is there. That’s where niceness and empathy make all the difference. 

[31:01] Evan comments that the win in an extreme buyer’s market is just selling your house. In an  extreme seller’s market, the buyer gets the house. You won’t be looking for the best deal in either  situation. 

[31:23] Once you accept those negotiation parameters and start trying to find a house, everything else is  on the table. “I know I’m not going to get a great deal here, but here’s what else is important to me.”  Knowing what’s important on the other side might get you the house or the sale. 

[31:50] We must get through the negotiator to get to the decision-makers. You’ve got to get the other  agent “on your side.” Sometimes, we have to coach them through their job and deliver that information to  their client in a way that gets their client those secondary wins. 

[32:38] When Evan and I return in our next episode, we will discuss the conversations between the  agents and their clients. That’s a different negotiation environment. Join us on the next one! 

[32:55] Evan’s final word: “Right now, so much is changing! Negotiating is an important part of navigating  these changes, whether we are negotiating to get hired on either side or helping the clients who hire us  navigate what the negotiations will look like now that we have different practices.” 

[33:21] It’s a whole new ball game that creates opportunities for people to step in and thrive! I get kind of  excited about having these conversations! I’m looking forward to continuing on the next one with you!” 

[33:39] Thank you so much to Evan Fuchs for sharing his wisdom with us! You can find more  opportunities to learn about negotiation at Learning.REALTOR. There are micro-courses there, taught by  Evan and by Lynn Madison. 

[33:51] You can also link to the real estate negotiation expert certification class from there. Please attend  some negotiation classes. Your associations are offering lots of opportunities right now. If it’s not your  local one, you may be able to travel a little bit and find one nearby. 

[34:09] Also, there are some great books on it. Read some books or watch some of the amazing online  videos to help teach you great negotiation tools. 

[34:17] As you’re moving through the changes in the industry, don’t miss the opportunity to learn from  your experiences as you’re having conversations with your clients, your friends, and your family, hear  what they’re saying, and that will also help you be more prepared. 

[34:33] Thank you so much for joining us! Come back and join us for Part 2. I’m Monica Neubauer for the  Center for REALTOR® Development, and I hope you are busy out in the field selling lots of properties! 

Tweetables: 

“While most people focus on price, it’s just one element of the negotiation. So we want to think more  about value. What does that price plus the other terms and everything else involved in the negotiation  represent as a value package?” — Evan Fuchs

“Everybody has things that are important to them. So, the more you know the other party, the more use  those conversations to your client’s advantage, which is your job. You owe that to your clients to do that,  as long as it’s ethical and honest.” — Evan Fuchs 

“If you’re somebody who’s not people-oriented, and you’re trying to negotiate with someone who is, it’s  like you’re bringing friction to the table. You’ve got to take responsibility and adjust how you show up for  this person and make them feel more comfortable.” — Evan Fuchs 

“Whether negotiating to get hired on either side or helping the clients who hire us navigate what the  negotiations are going to look like now that we have different practices, it’s a whole new ball game, and  that creates the opportunity for people to step in and thrive!” — Evan Fuchs 

Guest Links: 

Evan Fuchs, Broker/Owner of Bullhead Laughlin Realty, Speaker, Educator 

NAR Resource Links 

ABR® Accredited Buyer’s Representative 

Additional Links: 

[email protected] 

Crdpodcast.REALTOR 

Learning.REALTOR — for NAR Online Education 

Training4RE.com — List of Classroom Courses from NAR and its affiliates 

CRD.REALTOR — List of all courses offered 

Host Information: 

Monica Neubauer 

Speaker/Podcaster/REALTOR® 

[email protected] 

MonicaNeubauer.com 

FranklinTNBlog.com 

Monica’s Facebook Page: Facebook.com/Monica.Neubauer 

Instagram: Instagram.com/MonicaNeubauerSpeaks 

Guest Bio 

Evan Fuchs ABR, CRB, CRS, GRI, RENE, RSPS, SRS, e-PRO 

Evan Fuchs speaks nationally on leadership, sales, strategic planning, and team-building.  A recognized industry leader with 28 years of experience, Evan is a past state president, four-time  REALTOR® of the Year, and has been the broker/owner of Bullhead Laughlin Realty in Bullhead City, AZ,  since 1999. 

Evan combines his experience in business and leadership with a down-to-earth style to deliver engaging  and actionable programs. In addition to designations and certifications, such as the Accredited Buyer  Representative, Certified Residential Broker, and Real Estate Negotiation Expert, Evan presents and  develops custom programs, including the Arizona Leadership Training Academy. He is also a John  Maxwell Certified Leadership Trainer. 

A proud dad, accomplished concert-goer, and lifelong learner, Evan loves collaborating with individuals  and teams who aspire to produce their best work.

We are in Part 2 of my conversation with Dan Weisman about AI in the real estate industry. Dan is  a director of innovation strategy in the Strategic Business Innovation and Technology Group at  the National Association of REALTORS®. In his role, he researches technology, strategizes what  this tech may mean in the future, and builds relationships with tech leaders to better understand and drive innovation in the real estate space. 

This episode is where we get practical, starting with using generative AI instead of Google for  searches. How would that help you? What do you think about that? We’ll discuss software that is  genuinely helpful for you in your business. We wrap up with virtual reality. As cool as it is, why do  we not see it used more often? Dan gives us his insights. Let’s join him! 

[1:24] I am so glad to have more time with Dan Weisman to learn more AI tips. In this episode, we are going to get into practical things! You may want to listen again later and get some of the apps if you're  driving. We will link any apps we mention in the show notes. Look them up when you park. 

[1:50] In the first episode, we discussed plug-ins and research to help us understand what’s available. 

[2:11] Dan Weisman is a Director of Innovation Strategy with the NAR. His team's focus is to look at and  understand what technology is out there and help figure out how to drive innovation across the space to  support membership in the industry. 

[3:33] Dan says the tech can be overwhelming. He does this full-time, and it seems something new every  day if not every hour. You’ve got to be careful about not always chasing the shiny object. Many projects  are getting built on generative AI products like ChatGPT and Gemini. 

[4:01] Dan’s team is trying to focus on the pain points the NAR membership feels in their transactions and  tie together the research and the relationships NAR is building with startups and big tech companies to  help REALTORS® to be more efficient and productive. 

[4:36] REALTORS® are talking to Dan about how many phone calls they receive and constantly being on  call for their clients. Some cool products use AI to help schedule tasks and calendar meetings, almost like an AI assistant. 

[5:44] Monica is ready for those products! She keeps busy keeping track of her schedule between her  Google calendar, notebook calendar, and wall calendar. 

[6:39] If you missed Part 1, generative AI is a tool that recently became more available to the public to  generate information and content using artificial intelligence behind the scenes. Dan calls it Google  search on steroids. Instead of multiple web pages, it gives you a relatively concise answer. 

[7:11] You can plug information into it and ask for a response, and it will help formulate it in whatever way  you want, with context and tone. It’s for everyone.

[7:56] Since ChatGPT launched, people have been talking about tech. Dan loves it! He’s been trying to  talk about tech with agents for five years! It’s an opportunity for everyone to use a different type of AI  product and service to free up some time to help them be more efficient. 

[9:17] Can Monica ask AI to orient her book in progress to another audience? Dan says yes, but it’s a tool  in its infancy. It will do a good job manipulating the information you put into it to satisfy your request. Its  accuracy varies. Like any work you put out, pay attention to what it says. 

[10:50] If Monica sees that you just copied and pasted your listing from ChatGPT, from the many long  adjectives and how they sound, she does not trust it. Generative AI makes things up. 

[11:50] When Dan gives presentations, he uses the example of providing the data for a listing to  ChatGPT, and ChatGPT writes the listing description but gives it the wrong number of bathrooms. Luckily,  Dan checked it. ChatGPT can do complex things and at the same time make silly mistakes. 

[12:37] Always edit a listing for mistakes and personalize it as you want it to sound. It’s obvious when the  human touch is missing. That is critical in real estate. 

[13:41] Monica uses AppSumo and Castmagic. Monica put a recording into Castmagic, which makes  social media posts, transcripts, or show notes for a podcast. 

[14:15] There are many apps to take information, edit it, and simplify it for various content platforms. It  reminds Dan of CliffsNotes. Monica mentions Blinkist. Whatever ChatGPT pushes out, ensure it is  accurate and has the context and tone it should have. 

[16:17] Monica cites Otter, who takes notes in a meeting. When Monica sees the Otter notes from  multiple people, she is overwhelmed by the quantity of information. Dan recommends focusing on your  notes tool and tuning it to pull up the information you want. 

[17:26] One of the powers of generative AI is learning about you and what you are looking for as you  communicate with it more. 

[18:34] When Dan gives a presentation about images, he’ll take a photo of an iconic building, upload it to  DALL-e by OpenAI, and ask it to remove the iconic thing. It usually takes 10 to 15 prompts to get it to do  what he wants it to do. 

[19:41] In Chicago, he takes a picture of the Bean and asks DALL-e to remove the Bean from the photo. It  takes 10 or 12 tries. He doesn’t show all the variations. The photo stuff has a long way to go. Dan took a  listing to Canva and asked it to create a flyer. The images looked computer-generated. 

[20:39] Dan says some real-estate-specific apps are doing a good job tweaking photos. Renovate AI and  Reimagine Home are two big ones he’s been looking at. You can take a photo of a room and request  changes to it, and in seconds, you will get a couple of gen AI photo options as you requested. 

[25:47] Monica points out that many agents are leaning toward virtual staging, and it is a pet peeve for  buyers who want to see the actual condition of the house. That is a misrepresentation, a Code of Ethics  violation. For any gen AI images in the listing, label them clearly as such, as different ways to view things.

[28:36] Agents must be responsible as an industry when it comes to utilizing these tools, to ensure that  we don’t dilute the value of what we’re providing and the consumer's expectations when they show up to  see a property. 

[29:24] Monica recommends an agent derive from home or at least look at the pictures and see them  before taking a client to them. The agent can confirm if that mountainous landscape in the background  exists. Dan adds that agents need to be transparent about using gen AI tools. 

[30:27] Monica asks about virtual reality and shares her experience of seeing a European condo in VR. 

[31:24] Dan says VR is tough. You need at least a $500 headset. Many people feel uncomfortable or  nauseous with the headset. VR headsets are being used in new construction and development, where  there is a budget to build a VR experience. It is all custom, so it is expensive. 

[32:22] With VR, since every house is different, there has not been an effective way to create an  experience that would provide value for a reasonable cost. Augmented reality needs to come first. At  some point, VR may become mainstream, but a price-efficient method to build it for a home is not yet  available. 

[33:15] Monica and Dan share their pain about communicating with bots. Bots will get better the more we  use them. Dan has had success with the Amazon bot on a product return. The opportunity in the real  estate space is for virtual assistant bots. 

[35:44] Productive.AI summarizes your phone conversations locally without sharing them with the world. It  will provide a list of the things you talked about to follow up. It is especially helpful if you are calling while  driving. 

[36:24] There are more agent and broker needs for virtual assistants than bots. The virtual assistants can  help collect information and summarize it. 

[37:20] Monica would like to see more agents providing FAQs or answering specific questions on their  websites. Can a bot do that? Dan says that will come as generative AI matures. 

[39:48] Monica is looking forward to having her own C-3PO generative AI bot to be all these apps for her. 

[40:15] Dan’s final word: When it comes to generative AI, I would tell everybody to try it. Do not try to jam  technology into a problem that isn’t a problem, and you make it a problem. Focus on what you do, how  you run your business and how you communicate. Test generative AI to see if it can help you do your job  better. 

[40:55] Dan also says to be open-minded, be thoughtful, and use gen AI just occasionally. Before you  know it, it will be integrated into your everyday life, making you more efficient and productive. 

[41:18] Thanks again to Dan Weisman for joining us. I am so happy to hear a simple and helpful tech  update. His focus on his work and on what he learns is what is important to us. He distills it down and  makes it so easy.

[41:34] I am so fortunate to host this podcast and get to ask all these smart and focused people whatever  questions I have. So let me know if you have some questions, you would like to hear us address on the  podcast! 

[41:46] I hope you’re taking advantage of the great education being offered at Learning.REALTOR,  especially the ABR® Class. We know that AI in every form is relevant to all parts of our business. If you do  join classes in some live form, you’ll get a better focus on what’s up to date. 

[42:12] Things are happening so fast. You will get those from the instructor or possibly from other learners  in the classroom. I am also learning from you when I come to a classroom. We all need to keep learning  from each other. 

[42:24] So head over to Learning.REALTOR and see what is available there to match the needs of your  business. If you have been listening for a bit, we would appreciate your feedback on this two-episode-per month format, as opposed to the one longer episode we used to do. 

[42:43] Our email address is in the show notes. Please give us your feedback.  

[42:48] Keep up the good work helping your clients do what they need and want to do in this shifting  market. I’m Monica Neubauer for the Center for REALTOR® Development. Now go out there and sell  some property! 

Tweetables: 

“Generative AI is a tool in its infancy. This is new. It will do a pretty good job of manipulating the  information you put in to satisfy whatever request or requirements you have. … How accurate it is and  how close it is to how you might want it always varies.” — Dan Weisman 

“One of the powers of generative AI is learning of you and what you are looking for as you communicate  with it more.” — Dan Weisman 

“We have to be responsible as an industry when it comes to utilizing these tools.” — Dan Weisman 

Guest Links: 

Dan Weisman, Director of Innovation Strategy at NAR 

ChatGPT 

Gemini 

AppSumo 

Castmagic 

CliffsNotes 

Blinkist 

Otter.ai 

Canva 

DALL-e 

OpenAI 

Renovate AI 

REimagine Home 

Productive.AI

NAR Resource Links 

ABR® Accredited Buyer’s Representative 

Additional Links: 

[email protected] 

Crdpodcast.REALTOR 

Learning.REALTOR — for NAR Online Education 

CRD.REALTOR — List of all courses offered 

Host Information: 

Monica Neubauer 

Speaker/Podcaster/REALTOR® 

[email protected] 

MonicaNeubauer.com 

FranklinTNBlog.com 

Monica’s Facebook Page: Facebook.com/Monica.Neubauer 

Instagram: Instagram.com/MonicaNeubauerSpeaks 

Guest Bio 

Dan Weisman is a Director of Innovation Strategy within the Strategic Business, Innovation, &  Technology group at the National Association of REALTORS®. In his role, he researches technology,  strategizes on what this tech may mean in the future, and builds relationships with tech leaders to  understand better and drive innovation in the real estate space. He is in the thick of thought leadership.

Today, we will talk about AI in the real estate industry with Dan Weisman, a director of innovation  strategy in the Strategic Business Innovation and Technology Group at the National Association  of REALTORS®. In his role, he researches technology, strategizes on what this tech may mean in  the future, and builds relationships with tech leaders to understand better and drive innovation in  the real estate space. He is in the thick of thought leadership, creating new things for us. 

I asked him how I, as an agent, could personally use AI to help me in my business. Sometimes I  do not default to it as quickly as I should. I found our conversation to be very interesting. We are  releasing it in two episodes. 

This episode's Part 1 provides a big-picture overview of where we are now. It’s amazing how fast  things change! Then, we discuss some good suggestions for better habits. Let’s get right into it! 

[1:51] Welcome, Dan Weisman, back on the podcast! We’re so glad to have you! 

[2:07] Dan Weisman is NAR’s Director of Innovation Strategy. His team’s role is to look at and understand  what technology is out there and help the membership figure out how it may fit into their business to make  them more successful, productive, and efficient daily. 

[3:26] People inaccurately equate AI to ChatGPT. The concept of AI started 70 years ago. We now have  the computing power and data to make sense of AI. ChatGPT is generative AI, a subset of AI. AI places  the ads and suggestions we see on Facebook. 

[4:22] Generative AI is new to the average person because of its ability to use a technology like AI and  know that it’s AI. You don’t need to understand how Gen AI works; you need to understand if it can help  support you efficiently in what you’re focusing on, whether selling real estate or researching a vacation. 

[6:02] Generative AI refers to anything generated by artificial intelligence. OpenAI has ChatGPT and  DALL-e, and Google has Gemini. Open AI powers Microsoft Co-Pilot. Midjourney was out before Open  AI. The average person can search the internet and use Gen AI to ask questions and get results. 

[8:14] Generative AI is in its infancy. It’s like the beginning of the internet. People are not using Gen AI  like they use Google today, but they will when they get used to it and find the value in it. It’s developing  itself. The more information we put into it, the better it will get. It’s the future of search. 

[10:32] Dan is a Mac user who uses the ChatGPT app for Mac. When he hits Option-S, ChatGPT comes  up, and he can search within seconds. Training his mind to think differently than going to Google to  search is a matter of training him. He gets an efficient answer with ChatGPT instead of pages of links to  read. 

[11:47] Dan thinks paying a monthly fee to use Gen AI is worth it. It finds the sources and gives you the  results of all the searches. It’s worth the $20.00 if you use it once a day. It’s not that much compared to  what we spend on other technology, like our phones.

[13:53] Dan mentions Meta. Meta.AI is a similar product to ChatGPT. It’s built on Meta’s Llama 3 free so  far product, a large language model that many people use behind the scenes. Microsoft's partnership with  OpenAI powers Microsoft Copilot. 

[14:40] The big tech companies are investing and taking the lead in developing AI products and services.  Google, especially, is working on this. Search is core to what Google does. There is healthy, strong, big  tech competition. Dan worries that big tech companies will have too much control over AI. 

[15:48] Google just lost a suit by the government about having a monopoly on search, based on Google  paying hardware companies for Google to be the default search engine. Dan hopes this sets a precedent  for giving multiple companies more of a fair opportunity to get in on the Gen AI game. 

[17:42] Meta AI is catching up, as Google did with Gemini. Dan believes Meta will probably have a  monthly subscription model to align more closely with what other companies are doing. These companies  are losing billions of dollars on these products. Twenty dollars a month does not cover the usage. 

[18:39] Dan believes the current release of Meta AI is to give the public access to it. Their main goal  seems to be to use Meta AI within their current products, Facebook and Instagram. They just needed  something to get their name out there as a powerhouse. 

[19:25] Dan says it’s good to have competition. It’s good to have options to fit what you want. All AI  products behave differently. 

[20:24] These companies aim to keep you in their ecosystem. Meta wants to keep you on Facebook and  Instagram. 

[21:33] Dan states that some plug-ins are dangerous. It’s worse than just downloading an app. They have  access to stuff you don’t realize. They may be searching your whole computer. Dan stays away from  plug-ins for work. He sticks with the core apps. 

[23:29] Having AI products looking at your data can feel invasive to people. We take risks in almost  everything we do. Some companies use your data to provide better content and information. Dan wants  to see ads for things that interest him. 

[24:05] You feed the system whenever you enter information into a Gen AI product. It’s learning. It  becomes more valuable as more people use it. Be careful what information you put into it. Don’t upload  confidential financial or personal information into AI, even though it’s anonymized. 

[26:20] Dan clarifies one difference between the internet and Gen AI. If Monica uploaded her upcoming  book into Chat GPT before she published it, it would not have generated more book sales. That may work  in the future. 

[27:45] Copyright is a massive topic regarding content, in general, and how these large language models  are trained. There are lawsuits out there now related to images. Anything you input into AI is your work.  Anything AI creates from your input is not necessarily yours.

[28:50] We’re just scratching the surface with those conversations. Over the coming years, there’s a lot to  learn about what copyright and ownership of intellectual property means. Monica's info from her book  could give a better answer to someone who asks Chat GPT a related question. 

[29:48] Analyze the risks before you add anything to Chat GPT. Do you want to share information or just  maximize book sales? Chat GPT can do the former; the internet can do the latter. 

[30:27] Manica says that even though we’re all creating our individual business models, we can use AI to  help ourselves and make it more interesting. In real estate, there is a lot of mutual sharing. Most agents  are not creating completely new content; they portray it differently. 

[30:59] For the average user, AI products are a way to do things you aren’t great at or may not even like  doing in a more productive, efficient manner, whether it be a blog post or writing a listing. To some  degree, it’s an assistant that supports whatever you are doing. There are huge opportunities to use it. 

[31:54] Monica always teaches agents to take what they’ve read and put it into their words in a video.  Their expression of the idea is theirs and is part of their influence, engaging with the world. 

[32:14] Dan shares three points: (1) Use these products once a day. Get used to them. (2) Remember,  this is a tool. You want whatever you provide to be yours. Verify that what comes out is what you want to  say and that it’s factually correct. (3) Make sure it’s in your voice how you would articulate something. 

[33:07] Think of AI as a tool to help you improve at what you do and get from Point A to Point B twice or  thrice as fast. Go out there and try some of these tools. You can ask any of them the same question 10  times and get 10 slightly different answers. 

[33:28] Dan suggests that you should get used to using AI just as you got used to using the internet for  everything you do. AI is the next version of the internet. 

[33:37] Very encouraging stuff there, Dan! We’ll have another episode, which will be more on application  items, so look for that. Thank you so much, Dan! I appreciate you!  

[33:51] Thanks so much to Dan Weisman for joining us! I love to be able to introduce you, our listeners, to  some of the amazing staff in Chicago and D.C., working for you as members of NAR. Dan is always  learning and networking. Getting some time with him was fun, and I’m glad you could also join us. 

[34:09] Stay with us for Part 2, where Dan and I learn some of the best ways to increase your productivity. 

[34:15] I hope you’re taking advantage of the great education offerings at Learning.REALTOR, notably,  the ABR® Class. AI is relevant to all parts of our business. If you take classes on Zoom or in person, you  will be getting the most up-to-date information from the instructor and other learners in the classroom. 

[34:34] What classes are you taking this fall to keep you sharp in this changing environment? I look  forward to seeing some of you out on the road. If you are a listener, let me know! If you see me, come up  to me and let me know what you’re enjoying about the podcast. 

[34:48] We’d also appreciate feedback on this two-episode-per-month format, as opposed to the one  longer episode we’ve done in the past.

[34:56] Keep up the good work, helping clients escape their various living situations. In shifting markets,  they need your expertise more than ever. I’m Monica Neubauer from the Center for REALTOR® Development. Go out there and sell some houses! 

Tweetables: 

“Nobody cares how the backend of Facebook works. We know it’s providing a service we want:  connections, people, ads, etc. You don’t need to understand how Gen AI works; you need to understand  if it can help support you efficiently.” — Dan Weisman 

“I feel like we’re at this point with generative AI products where it’s like the beginning of the internet  again.” — Dan Weisman 

“Just get used to using AI, just like we got used to using the internet for everything we do, because this is  the next version of the internet in the near future.” — Dan Weisman 

Guest Links: 

Dan Weisman, Director of Innovation Strategy at NAR 

ChatGPT 

Gemini 

AppSumo 

Castmagic 

CliffsNotes 

Blinkist 

Otter.ai 

Canva 

DALL-e 

OpenAI 

Renovate AI 

REimagine Home 

Productive.AI

NAR Resource Links 

ABR® Accredited Buyer’s Representative 

Additional Links: 

[email protected] 

Crdpodcast.REALTOR 

Learning.REALTOR — for NAR Online Education 

CRD.REALTOR — List of all courses offered 

Host Information: 

Monica Neubauer 

Speaker/Podcaster/REALTOR® 

[email protected] 

MonicaNeubauer.com 

FranklinTNBlog.com 

Monica’s Facebook Page: Facebook.com/Monica.Neubauer 

Instagram: Instagram.com/MonicaNeubauerSpeaks 

Guest Bio 

Dan Weisman is a Director of Innovation Strategy within the Strategic Business, Innovation, &  Technology group at the National Association of REALTORS®. In his role, he researches technology,  strategizes on what this tech may mean in the future, and builds relationships with tech leaders to  understand better and drive innovation in the real estate space. He is in the thick of thought leadership.

Today we have Ali Whitley and her son Martin Whitley back with us for Episode 2, where we  discuss generational dynamics in the workplace and with our clients. Martin tells us more about  his journey and how he decided he needed the specific house he purchased. There might be a pet  involved! We discuss how it is a discouraging time for first-time home buyers, but there are ways  you can get into the market. These two episodes are great to share with your clients! We are  talking to REALTORS®, but this conversation is great for giving hope to potential buyers who  think waiting out in this market is best. Ali and Martin are often talking right to your buyers. It’s  great for them to listen and learn some things. 

Ali Whitley is the current president of the Ohio REALTORS®. She has a wealth of experience and  knowledge. I am so thrilled to have her with us again, along with her 22-year-old son, Martin, who  bought his first home in 2023. Today, we talked about more generations, and Martin gave us some  tips about working cross-generationally. 

[1:57] I am so glad to return for the second episode with Ali Whitley and her son, Martin Whitley.  Welcome! 

[2:47] Martin’s initial goal was to buy an investment property. He looked at duplexes and triplexes. The  market in 2020‒2021 was very small. There were few investment properties in the area where Marton  was looking. He was looking for a property where he could live on one side and rent out the other. 

[3:34] Not finding exactly what he wanted to get, Martin’s goals eventually shifted.  

[4:14] Ali had had buyers in their 20s looking for duplexes. That led to Martin's conversation about finding  a duplex. But Martin wanted to be able to bring his large dog, Draco, with him, so ultimately, he  determined that a single-family home with a backyard he could have a fence around worked best for him. 

[4:47] The possibility of getting into an investment, living in a duplex or triplex for a couple of years while  renting it out, building additional equity and some income, and then moving on to a single-family home as  a second purchase is a fantastic investment opportunity. Ali always shares this with young buyers. 

[5:45] Monica’s young Millennial son bought his first house at 26. He had things to fix in the home and  faced hiring contractors. Later, he wanted to sell, and Monica advised him to interview three agents to  find one he would like to work with. Each agent was different. 

[7:21] One agent in the local area came in with lots of data and showed professionalism. Monica’s son  chose to work with that agent. If you are young, are you getting a real estate agent and a lender who will  educate you?  

[7:38] Ali has an introductory conversation with new buyers. Buyers must be comfortable with the agent  they are hiring to represent them. Agents approach real estate in different styles, practices, and ways.  You must share that with your buyers so they are comfortable with you. It’s a big purchase!

[8:02] One of the most significant, most important decisions a buyer will make is who will represent them  and advocate for them in this big purchase they are about to make. 

[8:10] Sometimes, being of different generations, the agent and the buyer can have difficulty connecting.  Monica has had young agents in her Senior Real Estate Professionals class who don’t know if they can  work with elderly clients. 

[8:46] Ali stresses that regardless of what generation we, the agent, are and what generation the  purchaser or the seller is, we need to be able to communicate with everyone across all generations. That  goes for all types of service professionals. We should do our best to communicate with everyone. 

[9:11] Ali, as a Gen X, can communicate with buyers of any generation because she prepares to help her  clients every step of the way. 

[10:08] Monica notes that this market's average age of first-time home buyers has increased to 36. She  encourages listeners to listen to Part 1, where Martin describes the process of buying his home. He made  it happen with a great agent and great planning. 

[10:58] Ali says it can be discouraging if you’re not finding what you want to buy. The first thing you need  to do, as a first-time home buyer, is sit down and talk with a professional. Talk about what your options  are and find out the basics. The REALTOR® will put you on a plan so you can make your goals happen. 

[11:21] The REALTOR® can set you up with a lender and talk to you about the different opportunities in  the markets where you're looking. They can make the process as smooth as it can be. There will be some  bumps, but REALTOR® can help smooth them out. 

[11:41] What assisted Martin in finding his home was researching the location. Certain areas will be more  expensive and out of a typical budget. The most important thing for Martin was finding an area that  supported his budget. Homes in big cities are outside of most people’s budgets. 

[12:42] In the market Martin was researching, it was cheaper to buy than rent. 

[13:01] Monica invites agents listening to these two episodes with Ali Whitley and her son Martin Whitley  to share them with their clients and show them Martin’s story. Ali and Martin are talking to the first-time  home buyer as well as to the agents. It’s about education. 

[13:49] Ali adds we don’t need to find our forever home the first time. Think about your goals. If you want to own a home, it doesn’t have to be the best property. Your home can appreciate. You can earn money  from it when you sell it. Start with what you can afford and make a 10-year plan to move up. 

[14:44] Buying the next home is on Martin’s mind but not a goal he’s working toward yet. Part of the  reason Martin was successful in buying a house was that he thought far ahead. One of his main drivers  was building equity in something to look to the future. Any rent you pay goes to someone else. 

[16:13] Monica introduces the topic of generations. While people of a generation may share some  similarities, it’s important to remember that everybody is an individual. Monica asks Ali and Martin to  share their observations on Millennials, Gen X, and Baby Boomers.

[17:20] In real estate, Ali sees that Millennials purchase more as single purchasers than as a couple, in  contrast to previous generations. That causes differences in what they need. It also causes differences in  their ability to purchase a home. Millennials also have pets. 

[18:37] Millennials buy homes to accommodate their pets, which they see as part of their families. Martin’s  dog is 80 pounds, and Martin wouldn’t have chosen a house with a fence if he hadn’t had a dog. He knew  a condo wouldn’t have worked for that dog. NAR research shows pets are more important now. 

[20:17] Gen Xers are aged 44 to 59. Ali notices that Gen X is the new Sandwich Generation. They are  helping their children and their parents. Sometimes, they combine households and have their parents live  with them. 

[21:44] This may mean getting a bigger home. Gen X, now at their highest wage-earning age range, has  money to work with to get what they want. There is a loss in this generation as parents pass and children  leave. REALTORS® need to recognize this and know where the person is in their homebuying journey. 

[24:25] Monica suggests educating the whole family on how REALTORS® can help. What kind of home is  needed? Perhaps have all the adults involved sit down with the agent and consider their options, keeping  in mind who is the decision-maker client. 

[26:00] Martin previously worked in an event center and saw people of all ages. Selling is a very different  experience for each generation you work with. Older customers tend to be more analytical and ask more  questions. They want to know that you are trying to assist them in making informed decisions. 

[27:55] Baby Boomers are over 60. They are staying healthier longer, living longer, and aging in place.  They want to have the correct type of home. They are right-sizing their homes, such as living on one floor. 

[28:36] Boomers are managing a lot of possessions. If you are servicing the Boomer Generation, you  might have a person on your vendor list to help manage the possessions with a sale. The kids and  grandkids have homes full of possessions and don’t want more. See what doesn’t need to stay. 

[30:09] Ali has suggested that people take digital photos of their collections and put them in a digital photo  frame that cycles through the photos. They can keep one piece from each collection on the shelf and sell  or gift the rest. 

[30:46] Martin would not want to receive his grandparents’ collections, but little mementos would be  appreciated. 

[31:27] Monica invites listeners to look at some agents who have been doing this for a while, how much  they know, and what they bring to the table. Ali has just shared so many broad ideas. 

[31:38] Ali, thank you so much for volunteering and teaching with your clients and other agents in the  industry and for sharing all your knowledge with us. 

[31:50] Ali thanks Monica for having her and Martin on the podcast. She is excited to be able to do this  podcast with her son. She is proud of how her son has done so far in life. 

[32:07] We love having you with us, Martin! You brought so much great information. Thank you for being  open and sharing some of your story with us! Thank you to both of you. I appreciate both of you a lot!

[32:21] Personal stories and experiences are great tools to help us understand others. I enjoyed hearing  their stories about the cooperation with other agents in the transaction and with their lenders, all of them  educating and jumping in. This all led to a huge win for Martin. 

[32:39] I enjoyed Ali talking about Generation X being the Sandwich Generation. I think multi-generational  housing is taking on new characteristics. What do you think? 

[32:49] Recently, I was on a tour with NAR in Arlington, Virginia. I love the tours they’ve started to do at  Mid-Year and NAR Next. Zoning in Arlington had been changed to add more ADUs to the allowable  residential zones. 

[33:09] ADUs are Accessory Dwelling Units. They’re a smaller second unit. They might be attached,  maybe not attached, and they can be added to the property of a single-family home. Here in my area, we  see many of these in neighborhoods with older homes. 

[33:24] I love to see how different areas of the country are adapting their environments to the needs of  their communities. The multi-family homes, as well as single-family homes, are all part of what people  want and need in a changing environment. 

[33:43] The Accredited Buyer Representative course is available at Learning.REALTOR. There is so  much great training at Learning.REALTOR. This topic is part of an excellent elective for the ABR®, Buyers  by Generation: Success in Every Segment. 

[33:59] Such a fun class with applications for working with our clients and other real estate agents in our  co-op deals and getting along better with our family members. I’m Monica Neubauer for the Center for  REALTOR® Development. 

[34:16] You got some great tips from Ali and Martin, so I know you are now even more prepared to go out  there, have great conversations with your prospects and clients, and sell them some properties! Yes! 

Tweetables: 

“[A duplex] is absolutely something I looked into and something I strived toward at one point, but my goals  eventually did end up shifting.” — Martin Whitley 

“Whenever I meet with a new buyer, I have a conversation with them. Ultimately, they need to be  comfortable with the person that they are hiring.” — Ali Whitley 

“I’ve had [Millennials] tell me, ‘Oh my goodness, my cat is going to love that window!’ … It is a gorgeous  window; it’s not something we might have heard in the past, though.” — Ali Whitley 

Guest Links: 

Ali Whitley 

RE/MAX Crossroads in Akron 

NAR Resource Links 

ABR® Accredited Buyer’s Representative 

Buyers By Generation: Success in Every Segment

Additional Links: 

[email protected] 

Crdpodcast.REALTOR 

Learning.REALTOR — for NAR Online Education 

CRD.REALTOR — List of all courses offered 

Host Information: 

Monica Neubauer 

Speaker/Podcaster/REALTOR®  

[email protected] 

MonicaNeubauer.com 

FranklinTNBlog.com 

Monica’s Facebook Page: Facebook.com/Monica.Neubauer 

Instagram: Instagram.com/MonicaNeubauerSpeaks 

Guest Bio 

Ali Whitley is the current president of the Ohio REALTORS®. She is a successful agent and generous  volunteer. Her leadership roles are myriad, and she teaches courses as well. Ali is Director of Education  with RE/MAX Crossroads in Akron and is an instructor of professional designations and certifications  conferred by the National Association of REALTORS®. Whitley has been active in the Akron Cleveland  Association of REALTORS® since 1997, serving as President in 2012, and has chaired and served on  several committees. She also served as an RPAC Trustee from 2015‒2016. She was awarded the 2013  REALTOR® of the Year from the Akron Area Board of REALTORS® and was honored by Crain’s  Cleveland Business as a Women of Note in 2012.

People are all different. With an open attitude on our part, they are a constant source of opportunity for education, and learning. I love learning from other people. One of my favorite topics over the last 10 years or more has been about generations. I’ve been learning and teaching about how people of different generations act and react since I began teaching the Senior Real Estate Specialist course in 2009. While stereotyping people is never good as a general rule, there are some things we can learn from studying cultural differences and commonalities within a group.

My guests this month, Ali Whitley from Ohio and her son, Martin, will join me to discuss some characteristics of Generation Z and what we are seeing regarding their desires and actions around housing. We will also discuss the work and planning that Martin has done to help him purchase his first home. He’s very excited about it, and I’m excited for him! He shares some great insights and practical tips to help first-time home buyers focus on the goal of purchasing real estate.

Ali Whitley is the current president of the Ohio REALTORS®. She is a successful agent and generous volunteer. Her leadership roles are myriad, and she also teaches courses. It’s such a pleasure to have her with us again on the Center for REALTOR® Development podcast, and what a treat to have her son join us today.

[2:12] Welcome, Ali Whitley and Martin Whitley! Martin will tell all about his recent purchasing experience, hitting his goal of buying a home by the time he was 21 years old. Martin is excited to be on the podcast to speak about his experience of buying a house as a Gen Z home buyer.

[4:37] Ali has been working with first-time buyers for years and helping other people’s children and grandchildren get into homes, and while she treats all clients equally, and advocates for her buyers, it was fun to deal with her son through this transaction, seeing it professionally and also as a family member.

[6:23] Sometimes, Martin needed to ask his mother a business question, and she would go into business mode. He says it was mostly easy to separate business from family. Ali always knows “which hat she is wearing, and at what time.”

[7:43] Martin is in Gen Z, which includes ages 12 to 27. Martin is 22. He bought a single-family house in Akron, Ohio. It only had small electrical issues. Martin hired an electrician to complete them.

[9:52] Martin had called 10 or 15 people and got three responses. Electricians were backlogged at the time. He considered what was the best deal and looked at reviews to select the business. Hiring a contractor to work for him was a new experience for Martin.

[11:01] Before buying the house, Martin had not noticed that the hookups for the washer were non-standard. He used “YouTube University” to get the right parts to hook it up himself. Martin was a set builder for the theater in school, so he could build things in the home.

[12:49] Owning a home had been Martin’s goal since he was 15 or 16. As a young person, he saw his mom working as a REALTOR® throughout her career. He had a clear picture of what he wanted, and he made a plan to achieve it.

[14:03] Before planning how to buy a home, Martin had started building savings habits toward buying a car. He worked three days a week in the school year and four or five days a week in the summer, saving to buy a car. That gave him a habit of saving money for what he needed and not spending it on wants.

[14:44] He started working in cell phone sales and found stability in that business. He worked up a budget of what he needed to save and how he could achieve that amount.

[15:57] Martin hears talk among his friends in Gen Z about the fear of the difficulty of getting a mortgage with a “gig” job when they can’t prove they have a steady income. Monica and Ali see education opportunities for real estate agents and freelancers to consult with tax professionals to prepare to buy.

[18:20] Martin took the opportunity to build credit for himself. When he was 18, he got his first secured credit card with $300.00 down. He spent 10 to 20% and never had a rolling balance at the end of the billing cycle. After eight months still at 18 years old, he got his first credit score and it was in the 700s.

[20:33] Martin has long been intentional about buying a home. It has been a roller-coaster of emotions for him. It has been one year since he bought it. He talks about the process of finding a house. He says that finding the house, putting in an offer, and having the owner accept his offer has been surreal.

[21:18] Martin was determined to stay consistent about what he was doing. He didn’t budge from the vision of what he was looking for during the whole process. He searched for exactly what he wanted. Once or twice, he put an offer in on a home that wasn’t accepted.

[22:00] Eventually, the home Martin bought came to his attention by word of mouth. Knowing what he was looking for was integral to finding it.

[22:52] Martin was very intentional about preparing to put in an offer and how the process would go for each step. Ali helped him focus on goals, so when the roller-coaster of emotions and frustration came, Martin went back to getting to the end goal by going through the process. He made it happen!

[23:28] It took work and focusing on his goal to buy a home by age 21, with the rooms and features he wanted. 

[24:17] Martin says the timing was definitely right for that house to come to his attention to buy. Martin tells how he learned of the property. He and his mother were in Spain at the time. A colleague of Ali’s texted her that the house was going on MLS in 20 minutes. There were just a few pictures of it.

[25:32] Ali reached out to one of her colleagues, Cyndi Kane, who went through the entire house and took about 40 pictures as a virtual showing. Martin saw the pictures and decided the house was exactly what he was looking for. He’s grateful to Cyndi Kane for making that effort. It was a competitive property.

[26:24] With solid advice from Ali, Martin put in an offer that outbid the second-highest offer by $222.00! He wouldn’t have come up with that winning offer without the assistance of a real estate professional.

[27:33] A lot of Martin’s friends are renting houses. Discussing his home purchase with his friends has given many of them the idea that it is possible. There seems to be a lot of negativity about home buying among Gen Zs, who don’t see it as possible for them. It is very expensive in certain areas.

[27:59] There are areas where purchasing real estate instead of renting it could make sense for many people.

[28:17] Martin was able to find grants and programs through mortgage lenders, which allowed him to make very low-down payments at the end of the process. He had saved money if needed but didn’t have to come up with much out of pocket.

[28:52] Ali asserts that it is always important to work through the right lender. Find a lender who will speak to the client as you, the agent, would. The client needs a lender who is similarly professional. The lender explained to Martin the ramifications of certain decisions he could make.

[29:53] Martin’s final word: “I would say it absolutely can be a difficult process, but it really is not impossible. With enough research and preparation, it is something that many more people can do. Depending on the situation, it could make more sense for a lot of people to pursue purchasing.”

[30:23] Ali’s final word: “It is definitely possible. … It is challenging, but it’s something that you can achieve if you are focused and intentional, and you have a real estate professional who is going to help guide you through each step. Having a REALTOR® advocating for you is your best first step to make that happen.”

[30:58] Thank you both so much! I look forward to our next chat! 

[31:06] Such a great conversation with Martin and Ali. Make sure you join us for Episode 2, where we hear some great selling tips for all the generations from Martin and Ali. What a world of difference a good education in the right area makes!

[31:23] What was your favorite part of this episode? The financial planning? That was huge! What stood out to me was that Martin had a goal, made a plan, and worked the plan. Then he got his desired goal! He tweaked the plan on the way and kept moving toward what he wanted. That is a life lesson!

[31:50] What do you want? Make a plan. Work the plan. Get to the goal!

[31:57] The Accredited Buyer Representative is available at Learning.REALTOR. An excellent elective for the ABR® is Buyers by Generation: Success in Every Segment. It’s a fun class with applications for working with our clients and other agents and getting along better with our family members!

[32:24] Thanks for joining us! Watch for our next episode with Ali and Martin, where we discuss the other generations and some trends that we're seeing in the marketplace. I’d love for you to go out there and help someone in their 20s buy a house!

[32:39] However, I have a different close this time. If you have family members who are in different generational groups (and who doesn’t?), go and spend some time with them and ask them about themselves and what’s important to them, and then just listen.

[32:59] Great conversation can be and will be the bridge for any generational confusion. I believe it’s improved greatly, but there is still room for conversation and understanding. I hope you enjoy the journey! I’m Monica Neubauer from the Center for REALTOR® Development.

Tweetables:

“For so many years, I’ve been selling homes and working with first-time buyers, helping other people’s children and grandchildren get into homes and it was really a fun and different experience being able to deal with my own son through this transaction.” — Ali Whitley

“Occasionally Martin would say, “I need to ask you a business question,’ and then we would go into business.” — Ali Whitley

“There are absolutely areas where purchasing real estate as opposed to renting it really could make sense for a lot of people.” — Martin Whitley

Guest Links: Ali WhitleyRE/MAX Crossroads in Akron

NAR Resource Links ABR® Accredited Buyer’s Representative

Buyers By Generation: Success in Every Segment

Additional Links:

[email protected] Crdpodcast.REALTOR Learning.REALTOR — for NAR Online Education CRD.REALTOR — List of all courses offered

Host Information: Monica Neubauer Speaker/Podcaster/REALTOR® [email protected] MonicaNeubauer.com FranklinTNBlog.com

Monica’s Facebook Page: Facebook.com/Monica.Neubauer

Instagram: Instagram.com/MonicaNeubauerSpeaks

Guest Bio

Ali Whitley is the current president of the Ohio REALTORS®. She is a successful agent and generous volunteer. Her leadership roles are myriad, and she teaches courses as well. Ali is the Director of Education with RE/MAX Crossroads in Akron and is an instructor of professional designations and certifications conferred by the National Association of REALTORS®. Whitley has been active in the Akron Cleveland Association of REALTORS® since 1997, serving as President in 2012, and has chaired and served on several committees. She also served as an RPAC Trustee from 2015‒2016. She was awarded the 2013 REALTOR® of the Year from the Akron Area Board of REALTORS® and was honored by Crain’s Cleveland Business as a Women of Note in 2012.

Here we are, back with Trenesha Harrison, for Episode 2 on New Construction. In our first episode, we discussed new construction from the perspective of the on-site agent, which is how Trenesha started in real estate. In this episode, we’ll discuss how to help you be more prepared as a buyers’ agent, bringing your buyer to the new home community. The two episodes go together, so we suggest you listen to both.

Trenesha lives in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, and she loves new construction because it’s always changing; it’s always different, and there’s so much that we can learn from how a home is built from the inside out. 

[2:03] Seeing new construction go up is awesome but it might be intimidating for buyers’ agents who may not understand the foundation, the framing, or the roofing. Trenesha has ideas about getting familiar with new construction. On-site agents and builders can train buyers’ agents about new construction.

[2:52] Trenesha has had builders coordinate presentations for her team. Trenesha also does frame training with her team. It’s hard for clients to envision what a house looks like when they’re walking through just a bunch of sticks. It’s hard to put the walls up mentally.

[3:12] Being able as an agent to look at a floor plan or blueprint and understand what you’re seeing will help you mentally put those walls up, not just for yourself but also for your client, so you can identify rooms and locations of appliances for them. You have to know what you’re looking at.

[4:58] To learn floor plans, you have to look at the floor plans of a completed home and an incomplete home. Look at the floor plan as you walk through the completed model home and the framed home to see how the path leads you through the homes.

[5:31] Learn the construction components, such as the plumbing, gas, and electrical wiring, and framing for a door versus a window. This will help you walk this frame with your clients and understand how to explain it. Photos of the framing can also show the buyer possible structural changes they could make.

[7:28] Trenesha has done “X-ray” photos of framing. She also finds it helpful to walk through the house during framing. Understanding what your client is building, you can see anything that may not be right in the framing such as a missing window the client requested above the shower. Address it with the builder.

[8:35] If your client finds something in the framing that doesn’t seem right to them, remain calm and say, let’s talk to the builder, so we can get this corrected as quickly as possible. You want to help the client relax a little built. Building a home is very stressful.

[9:12] If you notice something wrong in the framing, address it with the builder as the buyers’ agent and let the client know you’ve covered it with the builder. You want to make sure your buyer understands you’re working as a team with them and the builder.

[9:54] Keeping your eyes on the job site for your client will help this process go a lot smoother so you don’t get to the end and find structural mistakes that cannot be changed.

[12:53] Within the Buyer-Broker Agreement, Trenesha writes verbiage that covers her exit fee compensation expectations for moving into a contract without her knowledge or participation. This lets buyers know their choices and encourages them to involve their buyers’ agent in any contract.

[13:37] The client must understand that the builder is for the builder, but the buyers’ agent is for the client. Trenesha’s company has these conversations and verbiage standards with their clients from the top. Trenesha trains the agents in her brokerage on new construction. Not being trained well is a liability!

[14:24] In consultations, Trenesha talks to clients about new construction as an option. Some people think that’s for buyers with a lot of money. They don’t realize there are price points that fit everybody. Anybody can own a new construction home during this time. This leads to a discussion on flexibility.

[17:08] Trenesha tells her clients they’re not competing the same way in a new construction market as they are in a resale market, especially not in a fast market. Planning the timing of a move takes some of the ambiguity out of the process.

[18:19] Trenesha mentions some pros and cons of working with a builder’s preferred lender. Compare the closing costs and interest rates between the client’s lender and the builder’s lender. The builder may have a preferred lender because relationships matter.

[20:53] Builders often carry contracts laying out details the real estate commission contract for new construction doesn’t cover, like what is expected at different phases of construction and how much money to put down in addition to your earnest deposit, especially for upgrades and improvements.

[21:29] The builder’s contract may cover their specific warranty and your buyers’ agents’ compensation. Read carefully. The sales rep is knowledgeable about those contracts, so sit down with the on-site agent and your client and ask the agent to go over it with you before your client signs it.

[22:28] In 2020 some builders had clauses that they could change the price, based on the price of lumber. Trenesha has not seen that in a long time. Most of the time, she sees verbiage about appraisal shortages. The buyer has to make up the difference. The builder will not drop the price. Don’t overbuild your home!

[23:17] Monica saw a price-change clause in a contract last year. Be alert for things that may not need to be in the contract.

[23:36] Spec builders build homes without a specific buyer. Semi-custom builders allow you to make some structural changes. They may be already built into the models based on the floorplan you choose. Completely custom builders do whatever you can afford to do.

[24:33] Builders will sometimes let you move walls a bit but not too much. You may be able to pull a wall out two feet to make this side of the house bigger. You could choose a separate tub and shower or just a big shower. You may want sliding glass doors onto a back patio instead of a single door.

[25:08] Design changes include your floor tile choice, wood floors, metal choice for your fixtures, paint colors, brick color, color of fascia or soffit, front door color, and window frame color. It can be overwhelming for some home buyers. There are so many decisions.

[26:06] Your client has to decide what their negotiables are and what they have to have in their home.

[26:47] As a buyers’ agent, know if this is a builder that starts at a low base level or a builder that has a higher base level. Knowing that is a way to bring value to your clients. There are so many nuances that come with extra money.

[27:36] What does the client want and how much are they willing to pay for it? Most structural decisions need to be made at the beginning of contract time. There is a little leeway with some decisions that can be made later, such as how much concrete to pour for a patio.

[28:27] Design selections involve your client’s preferences. Ask them how long they plan to stay in the house if they start choosing extreme colors. Are they OK with repainting when they sell” Cabinets and flooring set the tone of the home. Also, help them watch their budget according to their goals.

[29:49] Builders that Trenesha worked with did a frame walk-through and a dry-wall walk-through. At that stage, there is still time to fix issues with plumbing and electrical placement.

[30:34] Before the final walk-through, there are third-party inspections. In the final walk-through, the builder shows the homeowner the water, gas, and electricity shutoffs, alarm system, sprinkler system, and hot water system.

[31:17] Before a walk-through, the buyers’ agent should discuss with the on-site agent or builder the stage they are in. Will there be time to mark anything they missed? Will the inspection report be addressed? Then you tell your client what to expect in the walk-through. A final walk-through comes before closing.

[32:54] Sometimes buyers don’t feel they have the power to insist on the builder making corrections. Be sensitive to the situation. It is the buyer’s decision to make but you may have to advocate for them. Sometimes the builder pushes back, but a crooked sink counter, for example, has to be fixed.

[34:52] Small or medium items can go on a warranty list to be fixed within two weeks after closing. The buyers’ agent needs to follow up on these items. Homes are rarely perfect by closing.

[35:23] Trenesha’s final advice: Do not be afraid of new construction. There is a lot to add to your expertise toolbox about new construction. Don’t be afraid to search for things that will make you a better real estate agent and buyers’ agent and will help you understand what the process looks like to the buyer.

[35:52] Thanks so much to Trenesha Harrison! I truly believe that our listeners are way more prepared to help buyers purchase new construction homes after listening to the wisdom of Trenesha Harrison. I got some new tips, myself! I am so grateful she could take some time with us!

[36:10] These days, when we have limited inventory options, new construction is a great option at all price points. Education will help you feel more prepared to explore all the available housing opportunities in your area.

[36:25] An ABR elective course: “New Home Construction and Buyer Representation: Professionals, Product, Process” is a course that will give you more detailed information if you want to help yourself feel even more confident working with buyers and builders.

[36:42] You can access the class online or find a live class by searching on Learning.REALTOR. You can take it as an elective to the ABR or by itself. There are lots of opportunities to take the Accredited Buyer Representative, also available at Learning.REALTOR.

[37:01] Thanks so much for joining us! We would like to hear some feedback from you, our listeners about this two-episodes process we’re testing here. Do you like the monthly topic separated into two episodes? Or, do you prefer one longer episode?

[37:17] The email address to contact us is in the show notes and you can let us know which style you prefer. I’m Monica Neubauer for the Center for REALTOR® Development.

[37:26] You got some great suggestions from Trenesah, so I know you are more prepared to go out there and sell some new construction!

Tweetables:

“I do stuff like that for my team, where we do a frame training because it’s hard for clients to envision what a house looks like when they’re walking through just a bunch of sticks. It’s hard for them to put those walls up mentally.” — Trenesha Harrison

“You want to be the calm person in this. … Help the client relax a little because building a home is very stressful. If you notice something wrong, let the builder know as the buyer’s agent but also talk to your client and tell them you’ve addressed it.” — Trenesha Harrison

“Keeping your eyes on the job site for your client is going to help this process go a lot smoother so you don’t get to the end and realize, ‘Oh, this was supposed to be a bedroom, not an office. This was supposed to have a closet.’” — Trenesha Harrison

Guest Links: Trenesha Harrisoniloverealtyok.com

NAR Resource Links ABR® Accredited Buyer’s Representative

Additional Links:

[email protected]

Crdpodcast.REALTOR

Learning.REALTOR — for NAR Online Education

CRD.REALTOR — List of all courses offered

New Home Construction and Buyer Representation: Professionals, Product, Process

Host Information:

Monica Neubauer

Speaker/Podcaster/REALTOR®

[email protected]

MonicaNeubauer.com

FranklinTNBlog.com

Monica’s Facebook Page: Facebook.com/Monica.Neubauer

Instagram: Instagram.com/MonicaNeubauerSpeaks

Guest Bio

Trenesha Harrison is an Oklahoma native. She specializes in new construction, and first-time home buyers, is a listing specialist, and is investor-friendly. She began her career in new construction and has expertise on many top home builders in Oklahoma and the Dallas market. While being well-versed in new construction, her transition into general real estate was natural and mutual. She didn’t just choose real estate, real estate also chose her. “I have learned there is so much more to finding a home for my clients than checking off boxes.” Trenesha understands the importance of not just listening to her clients, but actually hearing them. Selling and purchasing a home is more than a logical or practical decision, there is an emotional component. Understanding someone’s emotional motivation is sometimes more important than the home itself. “As a representative for buyers and sellers, you will not be disappointed with the level of care and attention I put into helping with your home search and getting your listing noticed and sold for top dollar.” 

“As a seasoned real estate professional, I understand that buying or selling a home is more than just a transaction: it’s a life-changing experience. That’s why I am dedicated to providing exceptional, personalized service for all of my clients. I take great pride in the relationships I build and always work relentlessly on the client’s behalf to help them achieve their real estate goals. My philosophy is simple: Clients come first. I pledge to be in constant communication with my clients, keeping them fully informed throughout the entire buying or selling process. I believe that if you’re not left with an amazing experience, I haven’t done my job. I don’t measure success through achievements or awards but through the satisfaction of my clients.”

I love to be able to participate with my buyer clients when they want to buy new construction. I have bought two new homes, and I love the process of choosing what I want, watching it get built, then knowing how it was built, and having time to make a plan for the move. It’s not for everyone but it is a great option for a lot of people, and it is generally a bit more reliable than what we encounter with resale purchases; not always, but generally. Not all agents feel comfortable selling new construction, though. My guest this month, Trenesha Harrison, and I are going to help you see the benefits and show you how to ask better questions when selling new construction. There is a lot to learn about selling new construction and helping buyers buy new construction. Our first episode will feature Trenesha sharing some overview points and teaching us more about what it’s like to be on the side of working as a salesperson for the builder.

Trenesha lives in Oklahoma City and she has varied experiences with new construction. She’ll tell you more about herself in our chat. She currently owns her brokerage firm. I’m so glad to have her with us, sharing her vast experiences and giving us some great wisdom.

[2:07] Welcome, Trenesha Harrison! I am so glad to have you, with so much new construction experience. That’s what we’ll be talking about today, and you’ve worked on both sides of it. Tell us about yourself, where you live, and where you work.

[2:26] Trenesha lives in Oklahoma City and has worked mostly there. She has been in real estate for nearly 11 years. She has also worked in the Dallas market for a couple of years.

[3:02] Trenesha had worked for years for Oklahoma but was looking for a place where she fit. She took an interview for a job with a builder but the potential earnings seemed too good to be true and she didn’t believe it. They called her back for a second interview and she met the sales manager and the division president. The division president was passionate about the company and what it stood for.

[4:05] Trenesha decided she could get behind someone with such passion for what he was doing. That first real estate job was at a growing regional company. Trenesha started in a sales role and, after a year, moved into a sales management position.

[5:02] After that job, Trenesha moved to the Dallas area. She worked for two national builders there. The companies worked differently; she adopted their sales styles and got amazing training.

[6:15] Trenesha feels like builders look for people with a sales background but not necessarily a real estate background. They look for people who understand how to take a “no” and move past it.

[6:49] Builders’ on-site agents are trained differently than regular real estate agents. They are there to sell you a house.

[7:18] Trenesha moved back to Oklahoma and worked for one more builder before she got her real estate license. After she got her license, she became a full-time real estate agent, working for a brokerage. She no longer worked for the new construction company. Some construction companies considered it to be a conflict of interest for their agents to be licensed, as licensed agents could compete against the company.

[7:55] Trenesha notes that quite a few states don’t require a real estate license to sell new construction homes because you’re working as a sales professional under the builder.

[8:37] New construction builders have career nights and ads on job websites and their websites. If you apply for a job as an on-site agent, ask if you would have to let your license go inactive. The sales training you would receive there is different from the training most real estate agents receive.

[9:32] When selling for a builder, Trenesha liked coaching buyers who doubted their ability to buy a home, leading them to the right resources and helping them achieve a goal they didn’t know they could reach, to buy a home already built, under construction, or work from a plan. There are lots of options.

[12:09] Trenesha says when you as a buyers’ agent bring a client to an on-site agent, let the on-site agent be the expert and do their job. If it’s a fit for the buyer, you and the on-site agent will work as a team.

[13:34] Making an appointment before coming in assures you the attention of the on-site agent. During business hours, it isn’t necessary to make an appointment. If it’s busy, the on-site agent may let you take your client to see the model homes and return to the sales center to discuss them.

[15:19] Trenesha says that a buyers’ agent who acts protective of their client doesn’t have experience working with an on-site agent. If you don’t have experience with new construction, Trenesha recommends first setting up appointments for yourself with several builders to see what they offer and how they sell.

[16:59] Do you need to go to every appointment between your client and the on-site agent? What about selections? Trenesha offers her recommendations on selections.

[19:17] Monica shares a Seth Godin podcast quote: “When feelings of change come in, we tend to feel incompetent.” There is so much change, we have to get used to those feelings of incompetence and learn how to fix them, so as not to feel incompetent.

[20:11] Trenesha advises, you’ve got to get comfortable with being uncomfortable. That’s where you will find the most of your growth. Talk with these sales agents. Understand what they do and let them understand what you do. A lot of them aren’t REALTORS®. Build a rapport with them.

[23:20] Ask the builder if they change the incentive level to buyers, depending on whether a buyers’ agent is involved. If the answer is no, you’re going to be protected. Trenesha always recommends doing an  agreement upfront. She shares a case where an agreement with the builder protected her.

[25:58] Trenesha will share some great tips in Part 2 about how you prepare your buyers when you’re having them sign your agreement with them. Make sure you come back for our second episode!

[30:08] Trenesha’s advice for buyers’ agents: If you take your client to see a new construction model home, watch how the agent interacts with your client and take notes because they’ve had different training than you have received. See how they handle objections and understand the questions they ask.

[30:38] Trenesha learned early to ask three “why”s deep. When a client answers your question, the first answer is surface-level. Dig down two more times to get to the root of the client’s motivation. Trenesha offers an example. A good third question is “Tell me more about that.” That will uncover the real answer.

[31:46] Trenesha’s advice as an on-site agent: To become a new construction expert, join groups, and pay for sales training. Talk with builders. Work with colleagues who have more knowledge of new construction. There is much to be learned in the new construction field. You will elevate your career!

[32:42] Thanks so much to Trenesha Harrison! Do you feel better now about working with on-site agents to help your clients get the best house for them? It’s such a great option, whether a finished market home or from-the-ground-up new construction!

[33:02] Trenesha shared some fantastic tips for how to grow your understanding and your business with new construction opportunities in your community. Your professionalism with new construction communities will yield a better result for you and your client.

[33:17] You can improve your professionalism with education. The CRD has an ABR elective course: “New Home Construction and Buyer Representation: Professionals, Product, Process.” Taking it will give you more education to help you feel even more confident working with buyers and builders.

[33:40] You can access the class online or find a live class by searching on Learning.REALTOR. The Accredited Buyer Representative is also available at Learning.REALTOR.

[33:52] Thanks so much for joining us! Listen for our next episode with Trenesha, where she talks about new construction from more of the buyers’ agent side. I’m Monica Neubauer for the Center for REALTOR® Development.

[34:06] You got some great tips today, so go out there and sell some new construction this time!

Tweetables:

“States have different rules for selling new construction homes. Some states require you to hold a real estate license but there are quite a few states that don’t require a real estate license because you’re working as a sales professional under the builder.” — Trenesha Harrison

“You need to talk with these sales agents and understand what they do, and let them understand what you do. A lot of these agents aren’t REALTORS®.” — Trenesha Harrison

“You have to protect yourself a little bit more with the smaller, single builders; the ones who don’t have a huge development; the ones who build one-offs here and there.” — Trenesha Harrison

Guest Links: Trenesha Harrisoniloverealtyok.com

NAR Resource Links ABR® Accredited Buyer’s Representative

Additional Links:

[email protected]

Crdpodcast.REALTOR

Learning.REALTOR — for NAR Online Education

CRD.REALTOR — List of all courses offered

New Home Construction and Buyer Representation: Professionals, Product, Process

Host Information:

Monica Neubauer

Speaker/Podcaster/REALTOR®

[email protected]

MonicaNeubauer.com

FranklinTNBlog.com

Monica’s Facebook Page: Facebook.com/Monica.Neubauer

Instagram: Instagram.com/MonicaNeubauerSpeaks

Guest Bio

Trenesha Harrison is an Oklahoma native. She specializes in new construction, and first-time home buyers, is a listing specialist, and is investor-friendly. She began her career in new construction and has expertise on many top home builders in Oklahoma and the Dallas market. While being well-versed in new construction, her transition into general real estate was natural and mutual. She didn’t just choose real estate, real estate also chose her. “I have learned there is so much more to finding a home for my clients than checking off boxes.” Trenesha understands the importance of not just listening to her clients, but actually hearing them. Selling and purchasing a home is more than a logical or practical decision, there is an emotional component. Understanding someone’s emotional motivation is sometimes more important than the home itself. “As a representative for buyers and sellers, you will not be disappointed with the level of care and attention I put into helping with your home search and getting your listing noticed and sold for top dollar.” 

“As a seasoned real estate professional, I understand that buying or selling a home is more than just a transaction: it’s a life-changing experience. That’s why I am dedicated to providing exceptional, personalized service for all of my clients. I take great pride in the relationships I build and always work relentlessly on the client’s behalf to help them achieve their real estate goals. My philosophy is simple: Clients come first. I pledge to be in constant communication with my clients, keeping them fully informed throughout the entire buying or selling process. I believe that if you’re not left with an amazing experience, I haven’t done my job. I don’t measure success through achievements or awards but through the satisfaction of my clients.”

In Part 1 with Brent Lancaster, we started the conversation about the Buyer Agreement and it’s a timely conversation. We recorded this before the proposed settlement from NAR was released. While the settlement is still proposed, and it’s not final, one of the key points in it is the importance of a signed agreement with our buyers. There are details to be clarified but it seems this topic is even more relevant than before we recorded it.

This agreement with buyers to work together and get paid for the work you do is crucial for us. Brent owns a school and teaches CE classes in many states and is very familiar with the laws and agreements in many states. He’s not a lawyer and he’s not a pro on every single one but he does bring so much wisdom to the conversation. I’m thrilled to have him with me for this topic and I hope you join us for both episodes.

Let’s join Brent and learn more about the sections that are in most Buyer Agreements. It’s important to understand all those sections, and why they are important. Your documents will vary from state to state, as does your law. Please refer to your state law first, guidance from your state and local associations, and, very importantly, your broker for clarity on your specific state and situation.

[2:58] Brent Lancaster, welcome back with us! In the last episode, we talked about the Buyer Agreement, having the conversation with the buyer to sign it; why it’s important to sign it, and what happens if something goes wrong. In this episode, we want to discuss the elements of the Buyer Agreement. It’s becoming more important that they are accurate.

[3:49] Defining your Buyer Agreement and how you fill it out is the job of your broker and the lawyers in your state. It is not your job. We’ll talk about some of the things we teach in the ABR® Accredited Buyer’s Representative designation. Go to your broker and your state law for your policy; also check with your state and local associations.

[5:25] The commitment has a start date and an end date with a caveat for an automatic extension for a closing that is scheduled beyond the end date, similar to a listing agreement. The length may be negotiated. It may be for 180 days or no longer than a year to be enforceable.

[6:56] In a discussion with a broker, in arbitration, or with a judge, they will look at much more than the agreement as to whether it’s enforceable. They’ll look at how closely you worked together, who made a change, how much work you did, and more. How many calories did you burn?

[7:45] The Carryover Period extends the time of the agreement if the buyer buys a property after the agreement that you showed the buyer during the agreement. The buyer may still owe compensation. This clause protects you.

[8:40] The Duties of Each Party is in two paragraphs. Discuss this in your buyer consultation in terms of your responsibilities and the buyer’s responsibilities. Try to have the same number of bullet points for each party. Brent gives some examples and priorities of the responsibilities of the agent.

[12:50] Brent discusses some responsibilities of the buyer. The first is to work exclusively with the agent. Explain why that’s important. Discuss what happens if the buyer is approached by another agent, or walks through a model home. No one in a model home represents the buyer. They are working for the seller.

[14:05] The buyer consultation covers some of these situations, such as what properties they’ve looked at, if they have financing and more.

[15:51] One section deals with compensation. Explain how money flows in the transaction. The buyer gets a loan or cash. They hand that money to the seller. The seller pays off the mortgage, and fees, and keeps the net. The listing and buying agents get paid. Explain how much you get paid for your service.

[17:35] Tell your buyer what your fee is and that you will do your best to get it from the seller. If the seller refuses, the buyer decides if they want to look at that home. Before you show any property, explain to the buyer how much they will need to bring to the table. They can decide if they want to look at it.

[20:41] Monica notes that in Spain, an agent can be hired as a personal house shopper for the buyer. Monica also points out that buyers’ agents could be considered to be consultants. Consultants get paid.

[22:18] There can be a section on a general description of the property type, a general area where you will look for it, and how much they will spend. If they materially change their mind, amend the agreement.

[29:37] Brent explains compensation earned vs. compensation paid. What if you take the buyer up to days before closing and they want to terminate the contract? Language stating when your compensation is earned needs to be in the contract. Termination fees need to be negotiated in the contract.

[31:36] You’re going to do what’s best for you. What we wanted to do in this episode is give you a general overview of some of the most important things that are in the Buyer Agreement.

[31:47] Buyers are just dying to buy! There are some pent-up buyer demands. Brent is excited about the rest of 2024, second quarter, third quarter; those agents that are ready, those agents that have planted those seeds, they’re going to reap the rewards. Brent is excited for them.

[32:24] Brent’s final word: “Thanks! I really appreciate the opportunity to do this, Monica! This has been so much fun. I really have enjoyed it and if anyone has any questions, just reach out to me. I’d be more than happy to help at least talk through it or have a conversation. This is my jam! I love talking about it!”

[33:10] Brent, thank you so much for all your wisdom, clarity, and the beautiful way that you’ve explained some of those things!

[33:49] Please continue to listen and learn from people who are creating solutions for you and your business in ways that produce growth and understanding for you and your client. Your ABR® instructors are working very hard all over the country to help us all be more focused on the quality service we bring to our clients and communicating that clearly to our prospects and the public.

[34:09] Go to Learning.REALTOR to get more information about quality training online or in your local area. Getting your Accredited Buyer’s Representative (ABR®) designation is more important than ever. You might consider getting it again for a good refresher while considering your business options and plans. I have so enjoyed the personal engagement with agents in my classes on this topic.

[34:37] Change can be good if we lean into the growth opportunities that it provides! Thanks so much for joining us! I’m Monica Neubauer for the Center for REALTOR® Development.

Tweetables:

“If you don’t tell your buyer what to do, then you’re going to lose that buyer.” — Brent Lancaster

“We wanted to give you an overview of some of the most important things that are in your agreement.” — Brent Lancaster

“Buyers are just dying to buy! There are some pent-up buyer demands. I am excited about the rest of 2024; second quarter, third quarter; those agents that are ready, those agents that have planted those seeds, they’re going to reap the rewards.” — Brent Lancaster

Guest Links: LancasterInstitute.comBobBrooks.com

LinkedIn: Brent Lancaster

NAR Resource Links ABR® Accredited Buyer’s Representative

Additional Links:

Microcourses found at Learning.REALTOR. Use the coupon code PODCAST to obtain 15% off the price of any microcourse!

[email protected]

Crdpodcast.REALTOR

Learning.REALTOR — for NAR Online Education

Training4RE.com — List of Classroom Courses from NAR and its affiliates

CRD.REALTOR — List of all courses offered

facts.realtor

Host Information:

Monica Neubauer

Speaker/Podcaster/REALTOR®

[email protected]

MonicaNeubauer.com

FranklinTNBlog.com

Monica’s Facebook Page: Facebook.com/Monica.Neubauer

Instagram: Instagram.com/MonicaNeubauerSpeaks

Guest Bio

Brent Lancaster

Brent Lancaster combines his love of the business of real estate with his passion for education. As president/CEO of one of the nation’s oldest real estate schools, he offers a variety of solutions to the challenges agents face in today’s real estate environment.

In 2003, Brent developed his first online course and has spent every year since, searching for innovative ways to bring quality and consistency to every agent using multiple delivery formats. Today, he continues to teach classroom instruction but has transformed the traditional brick-and-mortar classroom into a multimedia educational experience called On-Live™.

Brent is also the broker/owner of his own real estate firm, Brent Lancaster & Associates.

Please Note: Effective August 17, 2024, all MLS Participants working with a buyer are required to obtain a written buyer agreement before touring a home. For details about this and other practice changes, please visit facts.realtor.

This is our 100th episode — 100 great episodes with so many amazing people who volunteered their time to help you be the best agent you can be! So many helpful topics for your business! Who has been with me on the whole journey, even if you missed a few? If you see me out on the road at Midyear, Annual, or in a class, greet me and tell me what your favorite episode was! I’d love to hear it!

Today, my guest, Brent Lancaster, and I talk about the often legally required, Buyer Representation Agreement. We recorded this before the proposed settlement from the NAR was released. While that settlement is still proposed, and not final, one of the key points in it is the importance of a signed agreement with our buyers. There certainly are many details to be clarified, but it seems this topic is even more relevant than when we recorded it last month, and we knew it was relevant then. This agreement with buyers to work together and get paid for the work you do is crucial to our work.

Brent owns a school and teaches CE classes in many states. He’s very familiar with the laws and agreements in many states. He brings so much wisdom to the conversation. I am thrilled to have him with me on this important topic! I hope you can join me for both episodes!

[3:47] Brent Lancaster is our guest for our 100th episode! Brent says he’s got fireworks and confetti! Brent is super excited and congratulates Monica on the 100th episode!

[4:36] The laws and agency status in each state are not the same. As we talk about this, we need you, the listener, to recognize there are nuances and local practices. Always confirm questions with your broker.

[5:11] We’re going to talk about buyer agency commitments. Not every state practices buyer agency and agreements differ by state. Some states are changing their laws. Watch for changes in your state. We’re recording this in March of 2024.

[6:24] First, know what your state’s default agency position is. Regarding clients and customers, you owe your clients a lot more than you do your customers. We need to be honest and truthful to everyone.

[7:20] You don’t owe your customers a fiduciary duty. You owe your clients a higher level of service: loyalty, obedience, confidentiality, and in some states, fiduciary duty. You also have the Code of Ethics, over and above the law.

[8:41] March’s episodes with Lynn Madison are about all the things agents do for buyers. The structure is changing and there’s no longer an MLS amount a buyer’s agent will get paid. You’ll need an agreement,

[10:22] Buyer’s agents have just been accepting the Offer of Compensation. You show different properties, do the same thing, and are offered three different levels of compensation. That’s going away. Now, you, the buyer’s agents are in charge of your level of compensation.

[11:27] Now you get to put your value on paper. A lot of agents haven’t done it. Change is hard even if you want to change. We’re at the point where it’s potentially obligated. Get on board, early!

[12:12] Brent says a conversation needs to happen before a contract. Brent sits with a seller or a buyer and explains his value and services. The Listing Agreement or the Buyer Representation Agreement is a summation of those conversations.

[15:35] Tell your buyer that to perform services for them to help them buy the house they want, you need to be in a client relationship with them. That’s what the Buyer Representation Agreement does. You must know what your value is. Do you struggle with your value? Go to Competition.REALTOR (now facts.realtor) for ideas!

[17:11] When do you have the buyer sign the Buyer Representation Agreement? What do your broker and state law say? Brent says to have the buyer sign before the first showing. Showing is part of your value.

[18:10] The first face-to-face contact when you present the Agency Disclosure, if your state has that, is a good time to present the Buyer Representation Agreement. A buyer consultation could be a good time.

[21:22] If the buyer already has an agreement with another real estate agent but wants to work with you, find out if the buyer has gone on showings and what work the other agent has performed. Buyers need to be educated. A buyer can’t work with two agents. An agreement can be terminated with written notice.

[23:13] REALTORS® have an affirmative obligation to determine if a buyer has a Buyer Representation Agreement. If an agent takes your client, ask if they asked the client if they had a signed agreement.

[24:51] If a buyer doesn’t want to sign an agreement, you make a business decision. Is it a buyer you want to work with? Is it a buyer? What’s going to happen if you don’t get paid? It’s no fun to be burned.

[26:40] What about unrepresented and unqualified buyers going into open-house homes? The NAR says 89% of buyers are represented by a real estate professional. Explain your value to the buyer!

[29:35] What if the buyer’s agent doesn’t get paid? Brent notes some scenarios. Agency Representation and compensation are separate things. Legal representation doesn’t guarantee compensation.

[31:15] A Buyer Representation Agreement is a contract. The buyer says the agent will do work for the buyer and the buyer will pay the agent for the work. No reasonable person expects agents not to get paid.

[31:55] The more the agent explains to the buyer how money flows in the transaction, the better off the agent will be. Brent covers negotiating cooperative compensation between the buyer and seller’s agents.

[34:48] Brent believes that the buyers’ agents who are strong enough to have the conversations about compensation are the ones who are going to get the deals.

[35:16] Monica encourages buyers’ agents not to be afraid to negotiate with the seller about compensation. The seller may not have chosen to make an offer but may agree to negotiate for a sale.

[36:05] Brent’s final words: “Get used to having the conversation! … Those who get used to having it sooner are the ones who are going to win! We’re entering into an awesome market! Buyers are going to be more plentiful. If you can have the conversation, you’re going to convert faster than anybody else!”

[36:33] Thanks so much to Brent Lancaster for sharing so much wisdom! I hope this conversation expanded your thinking about the benefit of having a signed agreement with your buyers. It is common for us to have agreements with service providers. We should have one too, with our clients.

[36:58] Please join us for the second episode, where we will discuss the individual components of the agreement and why they are important. We will also discuss some of the considerations regarding even more clarification for the agreement, moving forward.

[37:13] In these days, please listen to people who are creating solutions for you and your business in healthy ways. Your ABR® instructors are working very hard all over the country to help us all be more focused on the quality service we bring to our clients and to help us communicate that clearly.

[37:35] Go to Learning. REALTOR to get more information about quality training online or in your local area. Getting your Accredited Buyer’s Representative designation is more important than ever. If you got it more than five years ago, you might consider getting it again. It’s been updated and is so helpful! [38:08] Change can be good if we lean into the growth opportunities that it provides! Thanks for joining us! I’m Monica Neubauer for the Center for REALTOR® Development.

[39:17] When your clients ask you questions, have great conversations with them so you can go out there and help them buy those properties!

Tweetables:

“A lot of buyer’s agents have been staring at the Offer of Compensation and have just been accepting of what it is. Conceivably, I could show three different properties, do the exact same thing and essentially be offered three different levels of compensation.” — Brent Lancaster

“The sticking point is it’s different. A lot of agents haven’t done it before. It’s different and hard. Change is hard even if we want to do it. Now, we’re at the point where this agreement is something that’s potentially going to be necessary.” — Brent Lancaster

“[A Buyer Representation Agreement] is a contract where the buyer is saying ‘You’re going to do work for me and I’m going to pay you for that work.’ I don’t think that there’s anyone … that’s reasonable that expects agents not to get paid for what they do.” — Brent Lancaster

“That’s the market that we’re headed to and those buyer’s agents that are strong enough to have those conversations [about compensation], I think those are the ones that are going to win the deals.” — Brent Lancaster

Guest Links: LancasterInstitute.comBobBrooks.com

LinkedIn: Brent Lancaster

NAR Resource Links ABR® Accredited Buyer’s Representative

Additional Links:

Microcourses found at Learning.REALTOR. Use the coupon code PODCAST to obtain 15% off the price of any microcourse!

[email protected]

Crdpodcast.REALTOR

Learning.REALTOR — for NAR Online Education

Training4RE.com — List of Classroom Courses from NAR and its affiliates

CRD.REALTOR — List of all courses offered

facts.realtor

098: “Navigating Client Conversations: Communicate Your Value with Confidence and Clarity with Lynn Madison: Part 1” 105 More Ways REALTORS® Are Worth Every Penny of Their Compensation

Host Information:

Monica Neubauer

Speaker/Podcaster/REALTOR®

[email protected]

MonicaNeubauer.com

FranklinTNBlog.com

Monica’s Facebook Page: Facebook.com/Monica.Neubauer

Instagram: Instagram.com/MonicaNeubauerSpeaks

Guest Bio

Brent Lancaster

Brent Lancaster combines his love of the business of real estate with his passion for education. As president/CEO of one of the nation’s oldest real estate schools, he offers a variety of solutions to the challenges agents face in today’s real estate environment.

In 2003, Brent developed his first online course and has spent every year since searching for innovative ways to bring quality and consistency to every agent using multiple delivery formats. Today, he continues to teach classroom instruction but has transformed the traditional brick-and-mortar classroom into a multimedia educational experience called On-Live™.

Brent is also the broker/owner of his own real estate firm, Brent Lancaster & Associates.

Please Note: Since the recording of this episode, NAR entered into a proposed settlement agreement that would end litigation of claims brought on behalf of home sellers related to broker commissions. To learn more, and to prepare for the practice changes taking effect August 17, 2024, go to facts.realtor.  

Welcome to Part 2 of my conversation with Lynn Madison! Today we are talking about different business models. As you refresh your presentation of what you do and what you charge, we want you maybe to consider some other options or, at least, some other parts of the business and we also want you to be aware of the possibility that somebody else might have a different business model; how are you going to be prepared for that? Go back to episode 098 to hear the start of our conversation on clearly communicating your value to your clients. Lynn Madison has received the REBAC Hall of Fame Award, the REBI Distinguished Educator Award, and Educator and REALTOR® of the Year, both from the Illinois Association of REALTORS®. She is also one of the primary authors of the ABR® designation course and we are thrilled to have her back with us again. We will link to the other two episodes where Lynn has been with us, in the show notes.

Welcome back, Lynn Madison, for Episode 2!

[2:25] So we just want to talk about maybe some of the different ways people can get paid, maybe some challenges we see, and what we hear from people talking about business models. [2:45] Your business model must be something that is allowed in your state. Your menu of services must not include options that are lower than the minimum services that the license law requires you to give.

[5:05] Competition.REALTOR (now facts.realtor) lists tasks you perform for clients. Are they in your business model? Lynn says your business model is what you deliver but be consistent. She talks about when inconsistency hurt her.

[7:44] If you provide different levels of service, have the client check and sign on a written document what level of services they are choosing, so there is no confusion or anger later. Be very clear about it.

[8:37] Lynn has a pledge of performance. In it, she offers her full level of service to every client. If she offered less service to some, she would need a separate pledge of performance for that level of service.

[10:07] Lynn teaches about six buckets: finding a suitable property, showing property, analyzing the market, writing a reasonable offer, negotiating the offer, and following the transaction through to the closing.

[10:47] People don’t like to lose out. When you have a buyer sign a Buyer Representation Contract, you move the buyer from customer-level service to client-level service. Lynn explains what that means by law.

[14:50] You’re going to want to have this Buyer Representation Contract signed with a compensation amount in it. You’re going to have to figure out how to talk about compensation with your buyers.

[15:33] Stop being afraid of talking about compensation. Explain what it is you do to earn the money you are making. Nobody works for free.

[19:34] Study in the last 18 months in your market, how long it took you to find a property for your buyer. Tell your client, in this market, it takes about four to six months to find a house. Would that fit your plans?

[22:54] Follow your state law regarding the contract and protection period. What if they buy something after the contract that you showed them? If the contract period is long, there must be an opt-out.

[26:52] Lynn wants to give her buyers premium-level services but if the buyer finds a house in two weeks instead of six months, that’s a good place to offer a menu of services. Also, Monica tells why this podcast episode is not an antitrust violation conversation in the discussion of business models.

[29:27] You can use a free Zoom account to meet with buyers, especially if out of town. Share your screen with them. Tell how they will be notified of new listings in MLS and other features and statistics.

[31:10] Statistics of days a home stays on the market can show the urgency of making a move to buy a home. You can show these electronically or on paper. NAR resources linked below can help.

[32:43] Lynn takes NAR resources and personalizes them for herself to show her clients her pledge of performance of what she will do for them to get them the right property at the right terms to the closing.

[34:40] How Lynn deals with appraisal disagreements.

[35:41] In this hour, Monica and Lynn have shared some of what they teach in the ABR® class. Be sure to take the ABR® designation, with Lynn, online, or locally.

[36:49] “If you’ve not read the book, Who Moved My Cheese?, get it and read it. If you think about what we’re going through, it helps you realize that you’ve got to change your mindset.”

[37:52] Monica thanks Lynn Madison. She gives us so much great information! What is your takeaway from this conversation? Can you bring some points back to your team or brokerage firm?

[38:05] Please share this podcast with your fellow agents. I am learning all the time and I am talking with some very well-trained and thoughtful educators. They want to help you and the people that they train to make the transition that needs to be made. Please share this as a resource for this time.

[38:31] The Center for REALTOR® Development offers excellent training and you can find live, live virtual, and online courses, designations, and micro-courses. Check out the ABR® offerings and the SRS offerings locally or at Learning.REALTOR.

Tweetables:

“Your business model cannot be something that is not allowed in your state. Some states have, for example, Minimum Services. If I have an exclusive agreement with my client, whether it's a listing or a buyer, I must give them a certain level of service.” — Lynn Madison

“I’m at a loss as to understand why a buyer would want to go [without representation]. But part of the problem is we haven’t been having these conversations with the buyers.” — Lynn Madison

“You’re going to have to figure out how to talk about compensation with your buyers. All of this ties back into your value proposition.” — Lynn Madison

“If you’ve not read the book, Who Moved My Cheese?, get it and read it. If you think about what we’re going through, it helps you realize that you’ve got to change your mindset.” — Lynn Madison

Guest Links: Madisonseminars.com

[email protected]

080: “Talking Buyers, Contracts, Value, and Fees with Lynn Madison”

098: “Navigating Client Conversations: Communicate Your Value with Confidence and Clarity with Lynn Madison: Part 1”

NAR Resource Links ABR® Accredited Buyer’s Representative

SRS Seller Representative Specialist

Additional Links:

Microcourses found at Learning.REALTOR. Use the coupon code PODCAST to obtain 15% off the price of any microcourse!

[email protected]

Crdpodcast.REALTOR

Learning.REALTOR — for NAR Online Education

Training4RE.com — List of Classroom Courses from NAR and its affiliates

CRD.REALTOR — List of all courses offered

Competition.REALTOR

Host Information:

Monica Neubauer

Speaker/Podcaster/REALTOR®

[email protected]

MonicaNeubauer.com

FranklinTNBlog.com

Monica’s Facebook Page: Facebook.com/Monica.Neubauer

Instagram: Instagram.com/MonicaNeubauerSpeaks

Guest Bio

Lynn Madison

Lynn is the owner of Lynn Madison Seminars, a full-service training and development company devoted to the advancement of professionalism in real estate.

Formerly Lynn was Vice President and Director of Career Development for The Prudential Preferred Properties in Chicago, a 25 office firm with over 900 associates, where she authored and trained their New Agent Institute. Before that, she held the same position with First United REALTORS®, a local independent with 28 offices. She was the manager of two different offices for First United. Prior to that, she was an award-winning salesperson — receiving their Salesperson of the Year honors.

Lynn speaks annually at the NAR conventions and is an ABR®, BPOR, GRI, SFR, SRES®, and SRS instructor and has conducted classes in over 30 states. Lynn's involvement with REBAC goes beyond instructing. She conducts the trainer recertification program for REBAC instructors annually and has authored or co-authored the SFR, ABR®, and BPOR courses.

Lynn regularly conducts the New Member Orientation program for many of the associations in the Chicagoland area, as well as Professional Standards and Leadership training sessions for many state and local Associations. She is the Treasurer of Main Street Organization of REALTORS® her local 14,000+ member association.

At the National level, Lynn currently serves on the NAR Professional Development Committee, and the RPAC Participation Council, and has served on Equal Opportunity and Cultural Diversity as well as Professional Standards and Risk Management. Lynn has been honored with two NAR Hall of Fame memberships — RPAC and REBAC.

At the state level, Lynn has served as Chair of the RPAC Fund Raising Committee, Professional Standards Committee, and GRI Board of Governors and has served as a member of the License Law Rewrite Task Force, License Law Scope & Structure Working Group, the Equal Opportunity Working Group, Education MIG as well as IAR’s Strat Plan and Convention Committees. She is the author of over 20 continuing education classes in Illinois. She has also served on the state Continuing Education Task Force and the CE Curriculum and Instructor Development Subcommittees. As a member of the Illinois Agency Task Force Lynn has been instrumental in the creation and training of new agency policies.

Lynn is ITI certified, a member of the Real Estate Educators Association, was a National Educator of the Year award winner, has received the Educator of the Year award from AIREE, the Illinois real estate educator of the year and REALTOR® of the Year honors from her local association in 2003 and was named the Illinois Association REALTOR® of the Year for 2011.

Lynn's Credentials

• 2016 President Mainstreet Organization of REALTORS®, 18,000 MEMBER ASSOCIATION

• 2011 REALTOR® of the Year — Illinois Association of REALTORS®

• 2003 REALTOR® of the Year — Main Street Organization of REALTORS®

• Speaker at the NAR Convention since 1993

• REBAC Hall of Fame

• RPAC Hall of Fame

• Conducts over 250 continuing education seminars annually

• NAR and REBI Certified to Teach:

• ABR®

• SFR

• SRES®

• SRS

• RENE

• PSA