Chalk & Talk

By Anna StokkeScience Education How To Mathematics

Ranking
3rd
on Mathematics
Favorites
31
Followers
Typical duration
59 min
per episode

Based on Podcast App listening data

Chalk & Talk episodes

May 29 Inside one of England’s top-performing non-selective schools with Robert Peal (Ep 72)
In this episode, Anna Stokke is joined by Robert Peal, joint head teacher of West London Free School, one of England’s highest-performing non-selective schools. Robert is also the author of Progressively Worse and co-author, with Nick Gibb, of Reforming Lessons: Why English Schools Have Improved Since 2010 and How This Was Achieved. Anna visited West London Free School recently and invited Robert to join the podcast to share what makes the school so successful.
They discuss the school’s approach to behaviour, school culture, high expectations, and a knowledge-rich curriculum. They also talk about England’s school reforms and why ineffective educational fads have continued to resurface throughout history, despite weak evidence. Teachers, school leaders, and policymakers will find practical insights on how structure, high expectations, a knowledge-based curriculum, and effective teaching are the keys to improving student outcomes.
This episode is available in video at www.youtube.com/@chalktalk-stokke
TIMESTAMPS
[00:00:22] Introduction
[00:03:37] Inside West London Free School
[00:07:21] Why Free Schools were established in England
[00:12:33] Establishing behaviour expectations
[00:17:04] House points and celebrating achievements
[00:18:07] School sanctions
[00:21:06] Silent corridors, and their role in the West London Free School
[00:25:33] Parents’ response
[00:29:10] Breakdown of the ‘House System’
[00:36:59] A knowledge-rich curriculum in practice
[00:41:28] Training teachers on best teaching practices
[00:46:35] Grouping students based on readiness
[00:50:23] Formative assessments and summative assessments
[00:54:53] Is socioeconomic background a good excuse for poor outcomes?
[01:00:07] Final advice

RELEVANT PREVIOUS EPISODES
From decline to top rankings: How England transformed education with Nick Gibb
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-zps9p-18c1e97
The Finland myth, East Asia’s rise, and what makes education systems work with Montserrat Gomendio
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-7k52u-1a8a731
Rocking the times tables with Bruno Reddy
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-2pbdy-18f76df
Education myth busting with Daisy Christodoulou
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-z2q9q-14ce080

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
https://www.annastokke.com/transcripts/ep-72-transcript
MUSIC
Intro & Outro: Funk Jazz Big Band - ColorFilmMusic
Website: www.annastokke.com
FB: Chalk & Talk
IG: @chalkandtalkpodcast
Tiktok: @chalkandtalkpodcast
X: @rastokke
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/anna-stokke-3a1b4c
Bluesky: @rastokke.bsky.social
1 hr 4 min
May 15 Conviction vs. evidence: What’s driving math education’s worst policies with Thomas Briggs and David Shuck (Ep 71)
In this episode, Anna Stokke continues the conversation from the previous episode on what happens when requests for evidence are dismissed with the phrase “research shows.” She is joined by Thomas Briggs and David Shuck from the Center for Educational Progress to explore why ineffective or unsupported practices persist in education.
Thomas and David introduce an important distinction between misunderstanding and conviction: sometimes educators genuinely believe they are following best practices, while other times evidence is ignored or dismissed due to ideology. They discuss examples including flawed advanced math placement decisions, an update on the New York math briefs controversy, concerns around programs like YouCubed, and the impact of San Francisco’s math de-tracking experiment.
The conversation examines how “research shows” can be used both in good faith and as a way to shut down debate, while offering listeners practical ways to think critically about evidence and education policy.
This episode is available in video at www.youtube.com/@chalktalk-stokke
Anna Stokke was recently a guest writer for the Center for Educational Progress. That article is available at https://www.educationprogress.org/p/what-to-do-when-research-shows-shuts

TIMESTAMPS
[00:00:22] Introduction
[00:03:16] What is the Center for Educational Progress?
[00:05:10] Two reasons ineffective educational practices persist
[00:07:57] Examples of misunderstandings
[00:09:11] Students being denied access to advanced math
[00:16:14] Is conviction one of the biggest barriers to evidence-based education?
[00:18:56] The controversy around the New York Math Briefs
[00:21:43] NYSED response to Ben Solomon’s petition
[00:25:27] Why did the NYSED’s response shift to political motivation?
[00:27:41] The response from the New York Math Briefs expert
[00:33:24] YouCubed’s education claims and flawed methodology
[00:38:21] YouCubed’s updates and more underlying issues
[00:44:23] San Francisco’s failed de-tracking experiment
[00:51:57] Why tracking and ability grouping helps students
[00:58:52] Final piece of advice for parents and teachers

RELEVANT PREVIOUS EPISODES
What to do when “Research Shows” shuts you down: A guide for parents and teachers
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-9t822-1ab0f70

Balanced literacy didn’t work––Will balanced math? with Ben Solomon
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-usvqw-1962107

Science of Math: The movement everyone’s talking about with Sarah Powell
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-gar68-1a4c913

Identifying and educating advanced students with Jonathan Plucker
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-y6cxs-16ad6f1

Modern relevance in the math curriculum with Brian Conrad
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-gek66-148967a

California's math controversy with Jelani Nelson Part I
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-d3bai-144ec76

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
https://www.annastokke.com/transcripts/ep-71-transcript
MUSIC
Intro & Outro: Funk Jazz Big Band - ColorFilmMusic
Website: www.annastokke.com
FB: Chalk & Talk
IG: @chalkandtalkpodcast
Tiktok: @chalkandtalkpodcast
X: @rastokke
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/anna-stokke-3a1b4c
Bluesky: @rastokke.bsky.social
1 hr 3 min
May 01 What to do when “Research Shows” shuts you down: A guide for parents and teachers (Ep 70)
In this episode, Anna Stokke explores what to do when a math program or education initiative doesn’t seem to work, but you’re told "research shows" that it does.
Drawing on her personal experience as both a parent and educator navigating “research shows” claims, Anna explains how parents, teachers, and advocates can ask for evidence, evaluate what counts as credible research, and respond when weak claims are presented with confidence. This episode is based on a presentation she gave at researchED Toronto in 2025.
Anna unpacks common tactics used to shut these conversations down, including shifting the burden of proof, overwhelming people with endless references, credential deflection, and denying that poor practice exists at all. She also offers practical advice for parents and educators on how to counter these tactics and spot and stop the spread of bad ideas in education.
This is an essential conversation for anyone trying to push for better practice in schools and navigate resistance along the way.
This episode is available in video at www.youtube.com/@chalktalk-stokke
A Substack version of this episode, written by Anna Stokke, as a guest writer for the Center for Educational Progress is available at https://www.educationprogress.org/p/what-to-do-when-research-shows-shuts

TIMESTAMPS
[00:00:22] Introduction
[00:01:35] What to do when something doesn’t feel right
[00:02:48] Why Anna got involved in math education advocacy
[00:06:38] Understanding the phrase “Research shows” in education
[00:07:01] The Wildfire Effect: How bad ideas spread
[00:09:25] How to ask for evidence
[00:09:57] Burden of proof fallacy
[00:11:04] Firehose Effect: Overwhelming you with articles
[00:12:16] Overcoming the Firehose Effect
[00:13:01] Credential deflection
[00:14:59] Gaslighting: When you’re told the problem doesn’t exist
[00:16:11] Evaluating the evidence
[00:17:50] Fuzzy terms: Critical thinking, conceptual understanding, number sense, curiosity, differentiation
[00:19:26] Become informed
[00:18:36] Resources that can help
[00:20:16] Final thoughts

RELEVANT PREVIOUS EPISODES
Red flags in education research with Ben Solomon
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-cp5xt-156072c
Mailbag: Building Thinking Classrooms, number talks & more with Zach Groshell
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-stw9g-186807f
Modern relevance in the math curriculum with Brian Conrad
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-gek66-148967a

RELEVANT RESOURCES
The Institute of Education Sciences Practice Guide
https://ies.ed.gov/ncee/wwc/practiceguides
The National Mathematics Advisory Panel Final Report
https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED500486.pdf
Education Endowment Foundation
https://educationendowmentfoundation.org.uk/
The National Center on Intensive Intervention
https://intensiveintervention.org/
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
https://www.annastokke.com/transcripts/ep-70-transcript
MUSIC
Intro & Outro: Funk Jazz Big Band - ColorFilmMusic
Website: www.annastokke.com
FB: Chalk & Talk
IG: @chalkandtalkpodcast
Tiktok: @chalkandtalkpodcast
X: @rastokke
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/anna-stokke-3a1b4c
Bluesky: @rastokke.bsky.social
23 min
April 17 We know more about teaching than ever—so why is change so slow? with Joanna Barbousas (Ep 69)
In this episode, Anna is joined by Professor Joanna Barbousas, Pro Vice-Chancellor of Education, Impact and Innovation, and Dean of the School of Education at La Trobe University in Australia.
Early in her career, Joanna noticed that many capable students struggled to access the curriculum due to gaps in foundational reading and language skills—an insight that has shaped her work ever since.
Now, she is focused on transforming teacher education to better prepare educators using evidence-based practices. Joanna shares how she led major changes at La Trobe University–redesigning programs to align with the science of learning and launching initiatives like the Science of Language and Reading Lab and the Science of Math Education Lab.
Anna and Joanna also explore why change is so difficult in universities and what it takes to lead meaningful reform.
This is a compelling conversation for anyone interested in improving education and translating research into practice.
This episode is also available in video at www.youtube.com/@chalktalk-stokke
SHORT COURSE
La Trobe Short Course: Evidence-informed Mathematics Teaching – An Introduction https://shortcourses.latrobe.edu.au/evidence-informed-mathematics-teaching
ResearchED Calgary
ResearchED Calgary registration: https://www.eventbrite.ca/e/researched-calgary-tickets-1984343272144
TIMESTAMPS
[00:00:22] Introduction
[00:05:19] How Joanna’s early teaching shaped her leadership initiatives
[00:06:51] How Joanna went from classroom teacher to Dean
[00:10:31] The education landscape in Australia
[00:15:38] Unpacking the Rowe report
[00:19:23] The importance of teacher education reviews in Australian
[00:24:51] The outcomes of the TEEP review
[00:30:08] Becoming the Dean of Education at La Trobe University
[00:35:25] Reaction from faculty members
[00:43:34] SOLAR Lab – How was it established?
[00:49:17] Explaining the successful Nexus program
[00:53:38] What Joanna learned about retaining teachers in hard-to-staff schools
[00:55:17] Ideas for a national model
[00:57:42] Why change matters: A message to leaders
[01:00:26] Conclusion

RELEVANT PREVIOUS EPISODES
Rebuilding teacher training through cognitive science with Jonas Linderoth
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-zwqb7-19e0dae
Reclaiming learning time to boost literacy and numeracy with Ross Fox
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-bpy4n-188c9c5
Using evidence in education with Pamela Snow
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-jc9mq-161ecac

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
https://www.annastokke.com/transcripts/ep-69-transcript
EPISODE RESOURCES
https://www.annastokke.com/resources/ep-69-resources

MUSIC
Intro & Outro: Funk Jazz Big Band - ColorFilmMusic
Website: www.annastokke.com
FB: Chalk & Talk
IG: @chalkandtalkpodcast
Tiktok: @chalkandtalkpodcast
X: @rastokke
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/anna-stokke-3a1b4c
Bluesky: @rastokke.bsky.social
1 hr 2 min
April 03 The Finland myth, East Asia’s rise, and what makes education systems work with Montserrat Gomendio (Ep 68)
In this episode, Anna is joined by Dr. Montserrat (Montse) Gomendio, a former Secretary of State for Education in Spain. Montse is also a former Deputy Director of Education for the OECD, the international organization that administers the PISA test. Drawing on global data, including from PISA, Montse explains why some education systems consistently perform well while others struggle to improve.
Montse discusses the three key drivers of effective education systems: teacher quality, a knowledge-rich curriculum, and strong assessments aligned with that curriculum. Anna and Montse discuss what large-scale international assessments like PISA can (and can’t) tell us. The conversation also explores why education reform is so difficult to implement, what high-performing systems right like those in East Asia and Estonia get right, and whether Finland’s reputation as a model system is supported by evidence.
This is a fascinating conversation that will appeal to educators, policymakers, and anyone interested in what actually drives improvement in education systems.
This episode is also available in video at www.youtube.com/@chalktalk-stokke
MONTSERRAT GOMENDIO’S BOOK (OPEN ACCESS)
Dire Straits-Education Reforms: Ideology, Vested Interests and Evidence: https://www.openbookpublishers.com/books/10.11647/obp.0332

SHORT COURSE
La Trobe Short Course: Evidence-informed Mathematics Teaching – An Introduction https://shortcourses.latrobe.edu.au/evidence-informed-mathematics-teaching

ResearchED Calgary
ResearchED Calgary registration: https://www.eventbrite.ca/e/researched-calgary-tickets-1984343272144

TIMESTAMPS
[00:00:22] Introduction
[00:04:55] The role of Deputy Director of Education at the OCED
[00:06:21] What is the purpose of PISA?
[00:07:29] How is PISA different from TIMSS or PIRLS?
[00:12:54] What is an appropriate definition of equity?
[00:15:06] Measures that improve educational equity
[00:19:57] The perplexing narrative about Finland as a top performer
[00:28:42] Why do East Asian countries perform so well?
[00:33:00] The importance of content knowledge
[00:36:06] Misleading recommendations from the OECD
[00:37:16] After-school tutoring in East Asian countries
[00:41:36] Why implementation in different countries can be difficult: Latin America
[00:46:18] Reducing class size: popular and expensive, but ineffective
[00:48:08] What makes an effective teacher?
[00:52:01] A look at Estonia’s education system
[00:54:14] Why is it so hard to implement reforms even when they are evidence-based?
[01:02:23] Preventing the reversal of good education policies
[01:06:31] What are the main components that make an effective education system?

RELEVANT PREVIOUS EPISODES
When a mathematician became education minister: Nuno Crato on transforming education
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-pxzyk-19b773f
Balanced literacy didn’t work—will balanced math?
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-usvqw-1962107
From decline to top rankings: How England transformed education with Nick Gibb
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-zps9p-18c1e97
Understanding math reform ideology with Tom Loveless
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-7ih4c-15dbf9a

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
https://www.annastokke.com/transcripts/ep-68-transcript

MUSIC
Intro & Outro: Funk Jazz Big Band - ColorFilmMusic
Website: www.annastokke.com
FB: Chalk & Talk
IG: @chalkandtalkpodcast

Tiktok: @chalkandtalkpodcast
X: @rastokke
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/anna-stokke-3a1b4c
Bluesky: @rastokke.bsky.social
1 hr 9 min
March 20 Cognitive load theory and learning math with John Sweller (Ep 67)
In this episode, Anna is joined by Dr. John Sweller, emeritus professor at the University of New South Wales and the researcher best known for developing Cognitive Load Theory. Together, they explore how cognitive load theory should guide classroom practice, particularly in mathematics.
John explains the limits of working memory, how experts and novices approach problem solving differently, and how strategies like worked examples can help manage cognitive load. They also discuss whether productive failure is supported by research and the strong experimental evidence supporting explicit instruction, particularly when students are learning new content.
This episode will be extremely valuable for educators, especially math teachers, who want to better understand how students become expert problem solvers and what that means for effective instruction.
This episode is also available in video at www.youtube.com/@chalktalk-stokke
SHORT COURSE
La Trobe Short Course: Evidence-informed Mathematics Teaching – An Introduction https://shortcourses.latrobe.edu.au/evidence-informed-mathematics-teaching
TIMESTAMPS
[00:00:22] Introduction
[00:03:53] Biologically primary and biologically secondary knowledge
[00:09:34] Element Interactivity
[00:15:37] Two characteristics of working memory
[00:16:52] Understanding long-term memory
[00:21:06] Does working memory capacity vary for different people?
[00:21:44] Can working memory capacity be altered?
[00:22:45] How can you measure working memory?
[00:23:49] Explaining cognitive load theory
[00:27:55] Can you measure cognitive load?
[00:31:51] Sweller’s definition of problem solving
[00:37:28] Understanding schemas
[00:44:26] The way novices and experts categorize problems differently
[00:46:11] The expertise reversal effect
[00:50:13] How to identify students are ready for problem solving
[00:52:12] Thoughts on productive failure
[00:55:40] Why is there still debate about prioritizing inquiry-based approaches in math instruction?

RELEVANT PREVIOUS EPISODES
Evidence-based teaching strategies with Paul Kirschner
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-zgw6i-13b33df
Cognitive load theory with Greg Ashman
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-thbad-13cea56

Cognitive load theory in math class with David Morkunas
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-znh5k-15f7937
Unmasking instructional illusions with Paul Kirschner, Carl Hendrick and Jim Heal
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-kvuee-198b6ee

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
https://www.annastokke.com/transcripts/ep-67-transcript

MUSIC
Intro & Outro: Funk Jazz Big Band - ColorFilmMusic
Website: www.annastokke.com
FB: Chalk & Talk
IG: @chalkandtalkpodcast
Tiktok: @chalkandtalkpodcast
X: @rastokke
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/anna-stokke-3a1b4c
Bluesky: @rastokke.bsky.social
1 hr
March 06 Desirable difficulties for learning with Elizabeth Bjork and Robert Bjork (Ep 66)
In this episode, Anna is joined by two world-renowned experts in human memory and learning, Dr. Elizabeth Bjork and Dr. Robert Bjork, to explore what makes a difficulty desirable in learning.
They explain why some learning strategies that feel effortful often leads to stronger, longer-lasting retention while strategies that feel easy, like rereading or rewatching lectures without self-testing, or cramming, can create an illusion of mastery. The conversation unpacks retrieval practice, spacing, interleaving, variation, and addresses common misconceptions about what makes a difficulty desirable, and why what looks like slow progress in the short term may actually lead to more durable learning in the long-term.
This episode will be of interest to educators at all levels and is especially important for high school and university students and their teachers who want to develop effective study habits grounded in science.
This episode is also available at www.youtube.com/@chalktalk-stokke

SHORT COURSE
La Trobe Short Course: Evidence-informed Mathematics Teaching – An Introduction https://shortcourses.latrobe.edu.au/evidence-informed-mathematics-teaching

TIMESTAMPS
[00:00:22] Introduction
[00:04:48] Guests’ background: moving from math to psychology
[00:09:04] Researching effective learning techniques
[00:10:35] Who does this research apply to?
[00:14:47] The introduction of ‘Desirable difficulties’
[00:18:40] Understanding desirable difficulties
[00:20:13] Importance of retrieval practice
[00:30:46] The spacing effect
[00:33:43] Variation and the benefits for students
[00:36:55] Retrieval practice is the anchor in desirable difficulties
[00:43:19] Blocking and interleaving
[00:51:58] Final Thoughts

RELEVANT PREVIOUS EPISODES
Evidence-based teaching strategies with Paul Kirschner
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-zgw6i-13b33df

How we learn: Naïve, purposeful, and deliberate practice with Stephen Chew
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-mrwn2-18adce0
Powerful teaching with Patrice Bain
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-d77g4-14602e3

How to excel in math and other tough subjects with Barbara Oakley
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-bqs8p-14068f2

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
https://www.annastokke.com/transcripts/ep-66-transcript
MUSIC
Intro & Outro: Funk Jazz Big Band - ColorFilmMusic

Website: www.annastokke.com
FB: Chalk & Talk
IG: @chalkandtalkpodcast

Tiktok: @chalkandtalkpodcast
X: @rastokke
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/anna-stokke-3a1b4c
Bluesky: @rastokke.bsky.social
55 min
February 20 Science of Math: The movement everyone's talking about with Sarah Powell (Ep. 65)
In this episode, Anna is joined once again by Dr. Sarah Powell, a professor at the University of Texas at Austin whose research focusses on supporting students with math difficulties. They respond to a recent NCSM statement criticizing the Science of
Math movement.
Anna and Sarah unpack what the Science of Math is and why high-quality evidence matters. They address misconceptions about explicit instruction and “one-size-fits-all” teaching and explore why math instruction deserves the same scientific scrutiny as reading instruction. This episode is a must-listen for educators, school leaders, policymakers, and parents navigating the current math education landscape.
This episode is also available in video at www.youtube.com/@chalktalk-stokke
SHORT COURSE
La Trobe Short Course: Evidence-informed Mathematics Teaching – An Introduction https://shortcourses.latrobe.edu.au/evidence-informed-mathematics-teaching

TIMESTAMPS
[00:00:22] Introduction and an overview of the NCSM statement
[00:10:25] What is the Science of Math?
[00:12:07] Is this only about special education?
[00:14:24] Math learning through the general lens of learning science
[00:17:19] Is the Science of Math equivalent to the Science of Reading?
[00:20:01] The instructional hierarchy applies to learning anything
[00:24:07] The same groups tried to discredit What Works Clearinghouse
[00:26:30] Responding to claims about research citations
[00:29:49] Addressing the NCSM’s claims about quantitative research
[00:31:21] Why quantitative research and data matter
[00:38:24] Why alignment with IES and What Works Clearinghouse is a strength, not a flaw
[00:40:18] Importance of measuring learning
[00:42:59] Strange statements about an impoverished pedagogical approach
[00:47:30] Misconceptions about explicit instruction
[00:51:25] Is there quantitative data that supports mixed approaches or inquiry?
[00:55:20] Does explicit instruction fundamentally minimize learners' autonomy?
[00:56:32] Final Claim: The one-size-fits-all teaching method
[00:58:04] Problems with the phrase “math wars”
[00:59:59] Why is there such strong resistance to The Science of Math?
[01:02:51] Final Thoughts

RELEVANT PREVIOUS EPISODES
Reading and math: Parallels and pitfalls with Matt Burns
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-8aj3f-1508af6

Red flags in education research with Ben Solomon
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-cp5xt-156072c

Science of Math with Amanda VanDerHeyden
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-bksbz-13c732d

Supporting students with math difficulties with Sarah Powell
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-ciqgm-17def6b

The power of explicit instruction with Anita Archer
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-93dcw-19a3530

Mailbag: Building Thinking Classrooms, number talks, & more with Zach Groshell
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-stw9g-186807f

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
https://www.annastokke.com/transcripts/ep-65-transcript
EPISODE RESOURCES
https://www.annastokke.com/resources/ep-65-resources

MUSIC
Intro & Outro: Funk Jazz Big Band - ColorFilmMusic

Website: www.annastokke.com
FB: Chalk & Talk
IG: @chalkandtalkpodcast

Tiktok: @chalkandtalkpodcast
X: @rastokke
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/anna-stokke-3a1b4c
Bluesky: @rastokke.bsky.social
1 hr 6 min
February 06 Rosenshine's Principles of Instruction with Tom Sherrington (Ep 64)
In this episode, Anna is joined by Tom Sherrington, education consultant, author of Rosenshine’s Principles in Action, co-author of the Teaching Walkthrough series, and a former teacher and school leader with over 30 years of experience. Tom shares how Rosenshine’s Principles of Instruction became a foundational framework for his own practice and why they remain one of the most useful entry points into evidence-based teaching.
They explore where the principles came from, why they matter, and what they actually look like in real classrooms, with a focus on sequencing and modelling, effective questioning, review, and structured practice. This practical, research-informed conversation offers clear, concrete guidance for educators at all levels who want to align their teaching with how learning works.
This episode is also available in video at www.youtube.com/@chalktalk-stokke

SHORT COURSE
La Trobe Short Course: Evidence-informed Mathematics Teaching – An Introduction https://shortcourses.latrobe.edu.au/evidence-informed-mathematics-teaching

PRINCIPLES OF INSTRUCTION RESOURCE
Principles of Instruction: Research-based Strategies That All Teachers Should Know by Barak Rosenshine: https://www.aft.org/sites/default/files/Rosenshine.pdf

TOM SHERRINGTON WEBSITE
https://teacherhead.com/

TIMESTAMPS
[00:00:22] Introduction and listing the 10 principles
[00:04:19] Who was Barak Rosenshine?
[00:04:45] From 17 evidence-based instructional procedures to 10 principles
[00:08:18] What research backs Rosenshine’s principles?
[00:14:54] UK teachers’ familiarity with Rosehnshine’s principles
[00:14:08] Pace of adopting Rosenshine’s principles in other countries
[00:18:07] The more practice the better: Rosenshine’s on practice
[00:23:06] What does aiming for an 80% success rate mean?
[00:27:09] Importance of checking for understanding
[00:28:39] Checking for understanding and good questioning
[00:32:55] Understanding the forms of guided practice
[00:34:33] Teaching between desks
[00:38:54] Principle 1 & 10 – The reviewing stages
[00:43:51] When to review before teaching your lesson
[00:45:11] Presenting new materials and small practice steps
[00:49:47] Principle 4 – Providing models
[00:51:34] Principle 8 – Provide scaffolds for difficult tasks
[00:54:59] Do these principles apply to any subject?
[00:57:40] Can we get 80% success in classrooms with a wide range of learning levels?

RELEVANT PREVIOUS EPISODES

The power of explicit instruction with Anita Archer
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-93dcw-19a3530
Educational leadership: Improving math and literacy with Scott Hill
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-vpzf8-16d0c17

Reclaiming leaning time to boost literacy and numeracy with Ross Fox
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-bpy4n-188c9c5
Exploring evidence for equitable education with Nidhi Sacheva and Jim Hewitt
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-fjdnt-1685615
Evidence-based teaching strategies with Paul Kirschner
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-zgw6i-13b33df

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
https://www.annastokke.com/transcripts/ep-64-transcript

MUSIC
Intro & Outro: Funk Jazz Big Band - ColorFilmMusic

Website: www.annastokke.com
FB: Chalk & Talk
IG: @chalkandtalkpodcast

Tiktok: @chalkandtalkpodcast
X: @rastokke
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/anna-stokke-3a1b4c
Bluesky: @rastokke.bsky.social
1 hr 3 min
January 23 Teaching math so students learn with Craig Barton (Ep 63)
In this episode, Anna is joined by Craig Barton, former secondary maths teacher, host of the Mr. Barton Maths Podcast, author of How I Wish I’d Taught Maths, and a new Tips for Teachers book series. Craig reflects on how his teaching evolved after engaging deeply with learning science and educational research.
Together, they explore what effective explicit instruction looks like in math from atomisation and worked examples to checking for understanding, purposeful practice, and problem solving across the I do, we do, you do phases. This practical, research-informed episode is essential for educators looking to improve math outcomes by aligning instruction with how learning works.
This episode is also available in video at www.youtube.com/@chalktalk-stokke
SHORT COURSE
La Trobe Short Course: Evidence-informed Mathematics Teaching – An Introduction https://shortcourses.latrobe.edu.au/evidence-informed-mathematics-teaching
CRAIG BARTON'S BOOKS & WEBSITE
Order How I Wish I’d Taught Maths here: https://shorturl.at/rGTin
Craig Barton’s Tips for Teachers books & websites: https://mrbartonmaths.com/
TIMESTAMPS
[00:00:22] Introduction
[00:05:09] What changed Craig’s mind about how to teach math
[00:09:07] When struggle isn’t productive
[00:12:29] Essential components of a well-structured, explicit instruction lesson
[00:14:54] An introduction to atomisation
[00:16:16] Purposeful practice
[00:21:08] More on atomisation
[00:23:58] Examples of atomisation
[00:27:03] Summary of atomisation
[00:27:49] How to deal with wide skill ranges in the math classroom
[00:31:36] Engelman & Carnine’s Theory of Instruction
[00:32:30] Tips for the ‘I do’ stage
[00:38:24] Importance of checking for listening
[00:44:17] Tips for the ‘We do’ stage
[00:45:51] A ‘we do’ fraction example
[00:49:23] Atomisation helps with struggle
[00:52:24] Tips for the ‘You do’ stage
[00:54:13] How to use purposeful practice
[00:55:24] How to set students up to solve non-routine problems
[01:03:56] How to effectively teach problem solving
[01:09:05] The importance of structure
[01:09:53] Can explicit instruction in math be interactive?
[01:12:01] Where to find Craig
[01:13:08] Final thoughts

RELEVANT PREVIOUS EPISODES

Cognitive load theory with Greg Ashman
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-thbad-13cea56
Raising student achievement with Dylan Wiliam
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-kduiw-15bba36
Project Follow Through: Direct Instruction’s overlooked success with Marcy Stein
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-a9fqx-17a2ffb
Using the Instructional Hierarchy to teach math with Brendan Lee
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-3zux7-193d0fc
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
https://www.annastokke.com/transcripts/ep-63-transcript

MUSIC
Intro & Outro: Funk Jazz Big Band - ColorFilmMusic
Website: www.annastokke.com
FB: Chalk & Talk
IG: @chalkandtalkpodcast

Tiktok: @chalkandtalkpodcast
X: @rastokke
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/anna-stokke-3a1b4c
Bluesky: @rastokke.bsky.social
1 hr 16 min

About Chalk & Talk

From the publisher's feed

Everyone wants to see children and young adults succeed in math, but it can be difficult to sort myths from facts in education. Join math professor, Anna Stokke, for conversations with leading…