Host Dr. Elizabeth Economy interviews Noah Barkin, senior advisor with the Rhodium Group, about the evolving EU-China relationship following their July 2025 summit celebrating 50 years of diplomatic ties. Barkin traces Europe's awakening to the China challenge and China's designation as a "systemic rival" in 2019, explaining how the EU has developed its own distinct approach to managing Chinese economic competition. The conversation explores why China's strategy of leveraging Trump-era U.S.-Europe tensions to drive a wedge between allies has largely failed, with Europe maintaining its critical stance on issues like Chinese overcapacity and support for Russia. Barkin discusses the different approaches among EU member states, the significance of China's rare earth controls, and Wang Yi's surprising admission that Beijing wants to keep the U.S. "distracted" with the Ukraine war. Drawing on his expertise from Berlin, Barkin offers insights into whether Europe can maintain unity on China policy and what tools the EU needs to address the growing economic and security challenges posed by Chinese behavior. 

Recorded on July 29, 2025.

ABOUT THE SERIES

China Considered with Elizabeth Economy is a Hoover Institution podcast series that features in-depth conversations with leading political figures, scholars, and activists from around the world. The series explores the ideas, events, and forces shaping China’s future and its global relationships, offering high-level expertise, clear-eyed analysis, and valuable insights to demystify China’s evolving dynamics and what they may mean for ordinary citizens and key decision makers across societies, governments, and the private sector.

Dr. Elizabeth Economy interviews Professor David Shambaugh about his new book Breaking the Engagement: How China Won & Lost America, which examines the collapse of America's four-decade engagement strategy with China. Shambaugh argues that China initially "won over" American constituencies during the reform era, but starting around 2010, these groups faced increasing obstacles in China, leading to the breakdown of the "engagement coalition." The conversation explores the five schools of thought dominating current US-China policy debates and Shambaugh's assertion that the relationship has shifted to "indefinite, comprehensive, competitive rivalry." Drawing on his experience as both a leading China scholar and a former government official who witnessed key moments like normalization in 1979, Shambaugh offers insights into whether this dynamic can be managed to prevent further escalation.

Recorded on July 9, 2025.

ABOUT THE SERIES

China Considered with Elizabeth Economy is a Hoover Institution podcast series that features in-depth conversations with leading political figures, scholars, and activists from around the world. The series explores the ideas, events, and forces shaping China’s future and its global relationships, offering high-level expertise, clear-eyed analysis, and valuable insights to demystify China’s evolving dynamics and what they may mean for ordinary citizens and key decision makers across societies, governments, and the private sector.

Hoover Fellows Dr. Elizabeth Economy and Dr. Amy Zegart discuss the "DeepSeek moment"— when China's DeepSeek AI model surprised U.S. markets by replicating OpenAI's performance using fewer resources and an open-source approach. The two explore the strategic implications of open versus closed AI models, with there being an argument that the U.S. should embrace more open research approaches rather than closed models. They highlight how China is successfully replicating America's historical innovation model—investing heavily in long-term basic science—while the U.S. has reduced federal R&D spending. The two scholars conclude with policy recommendations, including fixing K-12 math education, creating a national computer infrastructure for universities, and strengthening partnerships with allies while emphasizing the importance of including academia in what should be "public-private-academic partnerships."

Recorded on July 2, 2025.

ABOUT THE SPEAKERS

Amy Zegart is the Morris Arnold and Nona Jean Cox Senior Fellow and the Director of the Technology Policy Accelerator (TPA) at the Hoover Institution. She is also a Professor of Political Science (by courtesy) at Stanford University, and a Senior Fellow at Stanford's Human-Centered Artificial Intelligence Institute and the Freeman Spogli Institute for International Studies. The author of five books, she specializes in U.S. intelligence, emerging technologies and national security, grand strategy, and global political risk management.

Zegart's award-winning research includes the leading academic study of intelligence failures before 9/11: Spying Blind: The CIA, the FBI, and the Origins of 9/11. Her most recent book is the bestseller Spies, Lies, and Algorithms: The History and Future of American Intelligence (Princeton, 2022), which was nominated by Princeton University Press for the Pulitzer Prize. Her op-eds and essays have appeared in Foreign Affairs, Politico, the New York Times, the Washington Post, and the Wall Street Journal.

Elizabeth Economy is the Hargrove Senior Fellow and co-director of the Program on the US, China, and the World at the Hoover Institution. From 2021-2023, she took leave from Hoover to serve as the senior advisor for China to the US Secretary of Commerce. Before joining Hoover, she was the C.V. Starr Senior Fellow and director, Asia Studies at the Council on Foreign Relations. She is the author of four books on China, including most recently The World According to China (Polity, 2021), and the co-editor of two volumes. She serves on the boards of the National Endowment for Democracy and the National Committee on US-China Relations. She is a member of the Aspen Strategy Group and Council on Foreign Relations and serves as a book reviewer for Foreign Affairs.  

ABOUT THE SERIES

China Considered with Elizabeth Economy is a Hoover Institution podcast series that features in-depth conversations with leading political figures, scholars, and activists from around the world. The series explores the ideas, events, and forces shaping China’s future and its global relationships, offering high-level expertise, clear-eyed analysis, and valuable insights to demystify China’s evolving dynamics and what they may mean for ordinary citizens and key decision makers across societies, governments, and the private sector.

Dr. Elizabeth Economy and Ely Ratner sit down to discuss challenging security environment in the Indo-Pacific region, the specific goals and ambitions of China in the Western Pacific and East Asia, their experiences in the Biden Administration and the state of the alliance system in the region, based off his recent Foreign Affairs Piece, “The Case for a Pacific Defense Pact”. The two scholars touch on continuity between both the Biden and Trump administrations’ strategy in the Indo-Pacific, but also increasing intra-Asian cooperation and awareness between nations as the China threat grows. They conclude with a conversation about what a Pacific Defense Pact would look like, including the importance of long-term credible deterrence, how other partners could be brought in, and aligning objectives to help create a viable collective defense.

Recorded on June 11, 2025.

ABOUT THE SPEAKERS

Ely Ratner is Principal at the Marathon Initiative. From 2021 to 2025, he served as Assistant Secretary of Defense for Indo-Pacific Security Affairs in the Biden administration. From 2015 to 2017, he was Deputy National Security Adviser to then-Vice President Joe Biden. He previously served in the State Department’s office of Chinese and Mongolian affairs and as a staff member on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. He previously held the Maurice R. Greenberg Senior Fellowship for China studies at the Council on Foreign Relations and was Executive Vice President and Director of Studies at the Center for a New American Security.

Elizabeth Economy is the Hargrove Senior Fellow and co-director of the Program on the US, China, and the World at the Hoover Institution. From 2021-2023, she took leave from Hoover to serve as the senior advisor for China to the US Secretary of Commerce. Before joining Hoover, she was the C.V. Starr Senior Fellow and director, Asia Studies at the Council on Foreign Relations. She is the author of four books on China, including most recently The World According to China (Polity, 2021), and the co-editor of two volumes. She serves on the boards of the National Endowment for Democracy and the National Committee on US-China Relations. She is a member of the Aspen Strategy Group and Council on Foreign Relations and serves as a book reviewer for Foreign Affairs.  

ABOUT THE SERIES

China Considered with Elizabeth Economy is a Hoover Institution podcast series that features in-depth conversations with leading political figures, scholars, and activists from around the world. The series explores the ideas, events, and forces shaping China’s future and its global relationships, offering high-level expertise, clear-eyed analysis, and valuable insights to demystify China’s evolving dynamics and what they may mean for ordinary citizens and key decision makers across societies, governments, and the private sector.

Dr. Elizabeth Economy and Michael McFaul sit down to discuss the relationship between the United States, China, and Russia, the history of US engagement with Russia, his experience as the United States Ambassador to Russia under President Barack Obama, and the increasing cooperation between China and Russia. McFaul begins by discussing early engagement with Russian President Dmitry Medvedev during the early Obama years, namely the signing of comprehensive multilateral sanctions with Iran, along with his role in crafting the Obama administration’s Russia policy. The two scholars then shift to a conversation about how Russia and China, namely Vladimir Putin and Xi Jinping, are attempting to reshape the international order, how the war in Ukraine has already changed this relationship, and whether a “reverse Kissinger” is possible from the perspective of the United States.

Recorded on June 3, 2025.

ABOUT THE SPEAKERS

Michael McFaul is Director at the Freeman Spogli Institute for International Studies, the Ken Olivier and Angela Nomellini Professor of International Studies in the Department of Political Science, and the Peter and Helen Bing Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution. He joined the Stanford faculty in 1995. Dr. McFaul is also an International Affairs Analyst for NBC News and a columnist for The Washington Post. He served for five years in the Obama administration, first as Special Assistant to the President and Senior Director for Russian and Eurasian Affairs at the National Security Council at the White House (2009-2012), and then as U.S. Ambassador to the Russian Federation (2012-2014).

He has authored several books, most recently the New York Times bestseller From Cold War to Hot Peace: An American Ambassador in Putin’s Russia. He is currently writing a book called Autocrats versus Democrats: Lessons from the Cold War for Competing with China and Russia Today. He teaches courses on great power relations, democratization, comparative foreign policy decision-making, and revolutions.

Elizabeth Economy is the Hargrove Senior Fellow and co-director of the Program on the US, China, and the World at the Hoover Institution. From 2021-2023, she took leave from Hoover to serve as the senior advisor for China to the US Secretary of Commerce. Before joining Hoover, she was the C.V. Starr Senior Fellow and director, Asia Studies at the Council on Foreign Relations. She is the author of four books on China, including most recently The World According to China (Polity, 2021), and the co-editor of two volumes. She serves on the boards of the National Endowment for Democracy and the National Committee on US-China Relations. She is a member of the Aspen Strategy Group and Council on Foreign Relations and serves as a book reviewer for Foreign Affairs.  

ABOUT THE SERIES

China Considered with Elizabeth Economy is a Hoover Institution podcast series that features in-depth conversations with leading political figures, scholars, and activists from around the world. The series explores the ideas, events, and forces shaping China’s future and its global relationships, offering high-level expertise, clear-eyed analysis, and valuable insights to demystify China’s evolving dynamics and what they may mean for ordinary citizens and key decision makers across societies, governments, and the private sector.

Dr. Elizabeth Economy and Šumit Ganguly sit down to discuss the recent conflict between India and Pakistan, the roots of the conflict between the two nations, and how the United States and China fit into the relationship. Ganguly starts out by giving listeners an overview of the cross-border clashes in early May, where the tension from the two nations stems from; originating over a land dispute along religious lines in the state of Kashmir during the formation of India and Pakistan in the aftermath of the fall of the British Empire in Southern Asia. The two then shift to a conversation about how foreign powers, namely the United States and China, influenced the conflict; namely, through the Pakistani use of Chinese military jets to shoot down several Indian military aircraft, but also how foreign involvement may have helped to bring the conflict to a swift conclusion.

Recorded on May 14, 2025.

ABOUT THE SPEAKERS

Šumit Ganguly is a Senior Fellow and directs the Huntington Program on Strengthening US-India Relations at the Hoover Institution, Stanford University. He is Distinguished Professor of Political Science Emeritus and the Rabindranath Tagore Chair in Indian Cultures and Civilizations Emeritus at Indiana University, Bloomington. He has previously taught at James Madison College of Michigan State University, Hunter College, the Graduate Center of the City University of New York, and the University of Texas at Austin.

Professor Ganguly has been a Fellow at the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars in Washington, DC, a Visiting Fellow at the Center for International Security and Cooperation and at the Center on Democracy, Development and the Rule of Law at Stanford University, a Guest Scholar at the Center for Cooperative Monitoring in Albuquerque and a Visiting Scholar at the German Institute for International and Area Studies in Hamburg. He was also the holder of the Ngee Ann Chair in International Politics at the Rajaratnam School for International Studies at Nanyang Technological University in Singapore in the spring term of 2010. In 2018 and 2019, he was an Alexander von Humboldt Fellow at the University of Heidelberg, Germany.

Elizabeth Economy is the Hargrove Senior Fellow and co-director of the Program on the US, China, and the World at the Hoover Institution. From 2021-2023, she took leave from Hoover to serve as the senior advisor for China to the US Secretary of Commerce. Before joining Hoover, she was the C.V. Starr Senior Fellow and director, Asia Studies at the Council on Foreign Relations. She is the author of four books on China, including most recently The World According to China (Polity, 2021), and the co-editor of two volumes. She serves on the boards of the National Endowment for Democracy and the National Committee on US-China Relations. She is a member of the Aspen Strategy Group and Council on Foreign Relations and serves as a book reviewer for Foreign Affairs.  

ABOUT THE SERIES

China Considered with Elizabeth Economy is a Hoover Institution podcast series that features in-depth conversations with leading political figures, scholars, and activists from around the world. The series explores the ideas, events, and forces shaping China’s future and its global relationships, offering high-level expertise, clear-eyed analysis, and valuable insights to demystify China’s evolving dynamics and what they may mean for ordinary citizens and key decision makers across societies, governments, and the private sector.

Dr. Elizabeth Economy and Susan Schwab sit down to discuss the current global trade environment and the outlook for US-China trade relations in the aftermath of negotiations in Geneva. The two discuss the magnitude and reaction to President Trump’s “Liberation Day” tariffs, along with the motivations and scale behind the actions. Schwab then explains the dynamics of negotiating within a presidential administration and the importance of understanding the objectives and red lines within those negotiations. The two conclude with an assessment of the US-China trade war, recent developments in the relationship, and what the United States can best do to compete with China in a new era. Economy and Schwab touch on the importance of engaging allies, clearly illustrating the rules China is violating and using a whole-of-government approach to take on the challenge.

ABOUT THE SPEAKERS

Ambassador Susan Schwab has more than three decades of international trade and policy experience. From 2005-2009, she served as US Trade Representative (USTR) and Deputy USTR in the George W. Bush administration. Ambassador Schwab also sits on several corporate and non-profit boards and is a frequent speaker at associations, corporations, and think tanks. In 2022, she became board chair of the National Foreign Trade Council (NFTC).

During her tenure as USTR, Ambassador Schwab successfully opened markets for US products and services in every region of the world and across a variety of business sectors and industries. She concluded the United States’ Free Trade Agreements (FTAs) with Peru, Colombia, and South Korea and launched the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) talks. Ambassador Schwab helped to achieve congressional approval of FTAs with Oman and Peru, as well as the bipartisan “May 10th, 2007” agreement on trade, labor, and the environment.

Elizabeth Economy is the Hargrove Senior Fellow and co-director of the Program on the US, China, and the World at the Hoover Institution. From 2021-2023, she took leave from Hoover to serve as the senior advisor for China to the US Secretary of Commerce. Before joining Hoover, she was the C.V. Starr Senior Fellow and director, Asia Studies at the Council on Foreign Relations. She is the author of four books on China, including most recently The World According to China (Polity, 2021), and the co-editor of two volumes. She serves on the boards of the National Endowment for Democracy and the National Committee on US-China Relations. She is a member of the Aspen Strategy Group and Council on Foreign Relations and serves as a book reviewer for Foreign Affairs.

Elizabeth Economy is the Hargrove Senior Fellow and co-director of the Program on the US, China, and the World at the Hoover Institution. From 2021-2023, she took leave from Hoover to serve as the senior advisor for China to the US Secretary of Commerce. Before joining Hoover, she was the C.V. Starr Senior Fellow and director, Asia Studies at the Council on Foreign Relations. She is the author of four books on China, including most recently The World According to China (Polity, 2021), and the co-editor of two volumes. She serves on the boards of the National Endowment for Democracy and the National Committee on US-China Relations. She is a member of the Aspen Strategy Group and Council on Foreign Relations and serves as a book reviewer for Foreign Affairs.  

ABOUT THE SERIES

China Considered with Elizabeth Economy is a Hoover Institution podcast series that features in-depth conversations with leading political figures, scholars, and activists from around the world. The series explores the ideas, events, and forces shaping China’s future and its global relationships, offering high-level expertise, clear-eyed analysis, and valuable insights to demystify China’s evolving dynamics and what they may mean for ordinary citizens and key decision makers across societies, governments, and the private sector.

Longtime friends Dr. Elizabeth Economy and Michael Dunne sit down to discuss the transformation of the Chinese automobile industry, the roots of electric vehicles in China, the demand for electric vehicles (EV) both in the United States and globally, and how the United States can best compete in a rapidly changing environment. Dunne details the early days of the Chinese EV revolution, a quiet transformation that came to a head at the 2023 Shanghai auto show and has now resulted in China becoming a global leader in EVs. The two also touch on how the conversation around electric autos has shifted from a concern that focuses on climate change on green energy to now one that encompasses national security and critical supply chains. They conclude by discussing how America can best compete in this shifting industry, and how the country must “get out of its comfort zone” in order to do so effectively. 

ABOUT THE SPEAKERS

Michael Dunne is the Chief Executive Officer of Dunne Insights LLC, an advisory firm with expertise in global electric vehicle markets and battery supply chains. He is also an LP at Assembly Ventures, a Michigan-based venture capital company. Dunne is the author of the Wall Street Journal acclaimed book, American Wheels, Chinese Roads. Dunne was previously the President of General Motors Indonesia and, before that, the Managing Director of JD Power operations in China. He worked in Asia for 25 years as an entrepreneur and an executive in China, Vietnam, Thailand, and Indonesia.

Elizabeth Economy is the Hargrove Senior Fellow and co-director of the Program on the US, China, and the World at the Hoover Institution. From 2021-2023, she took leave from Hoover to serve as the senior advisor for China to the US Secretary of Commerce. Before joining Hoover, she was the C.V. Starr Senior Fellow and director, Asia Studies at the Council on Foreign Relations. She is the author of four books on China, including most recently The World According to China (Polity, 2021), and the co-editor of two volumes. She serves on the boards of the National Endowment for Democracy and the National Committee on US-China Relations. She is a member of the Aspen Strategy Group and Council on Foreign Relations and serves as a book reviewer for Foreign Affairs.  

ABOUT THE SERIES

China Considered with Elizabeth Economy is a Hoover Institution podcast series that features in-depth conversations with leading political figures, scholars, and activists from around the world. The series explores the ideas, events, and forces shaping China’s future and its global relationships, offering high-level expertise, clear-eyed analysis, and valuable insights to demystify China’s evolving dynamics and what they may mean for ordinary citizens and key decision makers across societies, governments, and the private sector.

Dr. Elizabeth Economy sits down with Gary Rieschel to discuss his two decades-plus working in venture capital in China, his experience starting his own firm, Qiming Venture Partners, in the country, and the evolution of the business and entrepreneurial space in the 21st century. Rieschel illustrates the early challenges in the VC sector, from a lack of infrastructure and difficulty in finding reliable partners to being part of a successful VC landscape that boomed in China during the late 2000s and 2010s. Economy and Rieschel then touch on the involvement of the government in the industry; from the problem with using State Owned Enterprises, how the government issues directives to shape the technology used in the business, and the eventual crackdown on private enterprise in China under Xi Jinping. The two conclude with a discussion of the current landscape of US-China relations and what the United States can best do to compete in a new era.

ABOUT THE SPEAKERS

Gary Rieschel is the Founding Managing Partner of Qiming Venture Partners, a firm he launched in Shanghai in 2006. Qiming invests in Technology and Consumer (T&C) and Healthcare and has over 100 staffs in China and the U.S. Qiming has $9.5 billion USD in capital raised with many of their portfolio companies being some of today’s most influential firms in their respective sectors. 

Prior to founding Qiming, Mr. Rieschel was a senior executive at Intel, Sequent Computer, Cisco Systems, and Softbank Corporation. Gary started his VC career by creating Softbank’s U.S. venture group in 1995 (SBVC), and while at Softbank he invested in twelve companies which grew to over $1B USD in market capitalization and served on Softbank’s board of directors. Gary was early in the emergence of venture capital in China, through sponsoring and founding several of China’s early VC firms, including Softbank China Ventures (2000), SAIF Partners (2001), and Ceyuan Ventures (2004), before moving to China to create Qiming.

Elizabeth Economy is the Hargrove Senior Fellow and co-director of the Program on the US, China, and the World at the Hoover Institution. From 2021-2023, she took leave from Hoover to serve as the senior advisor for China to the US Secretary of Commerce. Before joining Hoover, she was the C.V. Starr Senior Fellow and director, Asia Studies at the Council on Foreign Relations. She is the author of four books on China, including most recently The World According to China (Polity, 2021), and the co-editor of two volumes. She serves on the boards of the National Endowment for Democracy and the National Committee on US-China Relations. She is a member of the Aspen Strategy Group and Council on Foreign Relations and serves as a book reviewer for Foreign Affairs.  

FOLLOW OUR GUEST ON SOCIAL MEDIA

ABOUT THE SERIES

China Considered with Elizabeth Economy is a Hoover Institution podcast series that features in-depth conversations with leading political figures, scholars, and activists from around the world. The series explores the ideas, events, and forces shaping China’s future and its global relationships, offering high-level expertise, clear-eyed analysis, and valuable insights to demystify China’s evolving dynamics and what they may mean for ordinary citizens and key decision makers across societies, governments, and the private sector.

Dr. Elizabeth Economy sits down with Patrick Jenevein to discuss his career in the energy industry in China, the outlook for foreign individuals and companies seeking to do business in the country, and his new book - Dancing with the Dragon. Jenevein, who worked in the country for more than 20 years, recounts a collection of stories ranging from one of his company’s first deal in the country’s far west, negotiating with one of Deng Xiaoping’s top advisers to detailing the frustrations that eventually led him to leave the country.  

Recorded on March 26, 2025.

ABOUT THE SPEAKERS

Patrick Jenevein serves as the chief executive at Pointe Bello, an intelligence-driven strategy development firm that provides pioneering open-source intelligence to governmental and commercial bodies on the People’s Republic of China’s (PRC) economic statecraft activity worldwide. Prior to launching Pointe Bello, he co-founded Tang Energy Group and, partnering with PRC state-owned enterprises, developed several businesses in the power-generating and electrical infrastructure sectors, including power plants, wind farms, and a manufacturer of wind turbine blades. Jenevein is a graduate of Davidson College, a Council on Foreign Relations Life Member, and past Chairman of the Dallas Committee on Foreign Relations.

Elizabeth Economy is the Hargrove Senior Fellow and co-director of the Program on the US, China, and the World at the Hoover Institution. From 2021-2023, she took leave from Hoover to serve as the senior advisor for China to the US secretary of commerce. Before joining Hoover, she was the C.V. Starr Senior Fellow and director, Asia Studies at the Council on Foreign Relations. She is the author of four books on China, including most recently The World According to China (Polity, 2021), and the co-editor of two volumes. She serves on the boards of the National Endowment for Democracy and the National Committee on US-China Relations. She is a member of the Aspen Strategy Group and Council on Foreign Relations and serves as a book reviewer for Foreign Affairs.  

FOLLOW OUR GUEST ON SOCIAL MEDIA

ABOUT THE SERIES

China Considered with Elizabeth Economy is a Hoover Institution podcast series that features in-depth conversations with leading political figures, scholars, and activists from around the world. The series explores the ideas, events, and forces shaping China’s future and its global relationships, offering high-level expertise, clear-eyed analysis, and valuable insights to demystify China’s evolving dynamics and what they may mean for ordinary citizens and key decision makers across societies, governments, and the private sector.