Cider Chat

Fermentations Run without Fear at Wildcraft

Sean Kelly founded Wildcraft Cider Works in 2014. His journey to cider making began in 2008. It follows his botanicals passion, quest for tree resources & conservation, in concert with travels to Latin America where he learned how to ferment. He honors the preservation and the medicinal value of the plants and does a mighty fine job of capturing the essence of a wide variety of pomes, grapes and botanicals in the glass.

Sean Kelly Cider Making at Wildcraft

• Only Native Yeast
• No sulfites
• Co-ferment
  • botanical
  • grapes
  • pome fruits – pear, quince, medlars
• Barrel aging

Cider's Tasted in this Cider Chat

• Pisgah Heriloom
• Restoration Perry – wild rootstock pears
• Medlar

Wildcraft Products

• Ciders
• Perry
• Brandies – POM-MISTELLE – a set of 3 brandies, apple, quince and pear
• Fire Cider
• Hot Sauce – Peppers gleaned from Camas Swale Farms. Fermented and aged in house brandy barrels

Annual Events at Wildcraft

• March 2nd Tap Takeover – an array of ferments on tap
• Fiddlehead Festival – Last weekend of April
• Harvest Party – fall

Mentioned in this Cider Chat

• Freeman Rowe
• French Cider Tour – September 22-28, 2024 Reservations are now open

Pre-conference PDX Audio Clips

This Cider Chat Live features clips from CiderCon 2024 which took place in Portland, Oregon. What was particularly unique about this year was the ice storm that took place.

Pictured below is a car driven from the border of Oregon and California to PDX. It is incased in ice and is a testament of just how ferocious the storm was. Despite the ice, the cider kept pouring.

Enjoy this Cider Chat Live

Ander's car and its Ice Cap when he arrived at the main hotel

Bookmark this episode for loads of Portland Oregon a.k.a. PDX Tips

Oregon Cider Week and CiderCon 2024 are all converging in PDX and this episodes has all the tips you need arrive and hit the ground running. Portland resident Sean Connolly, who is also known as Cider Experience on Instragram and Facebook has delivered big time with tons of tips and insider knowlege to help everyone feel like a local.

Sean Connolly In this Cider Chat on PDX Tips

• Temperature
  • Highs 47 degrees
  • 50/50 chance of rain or sunny
  • Bring layers

• What to wear
  • Jeans and plaids work
  • Casual dress code and functional

PDX Tips to look like a local: Loose the umbrella and let your hair get wet! When using an umbrella, it is obvious you are from out of town!

• Transportation
• Airport (PDX) to CiderCon – The Met Red line is not in service beginning January 14th. Service will be still provided via shuttle buses which will take a bit longer than the 30 minute ride. It is still a great deal at $2.80
  • go to Trimet.org for more info

• Driving: Download Car Parking App: Parking Kitty

• Bicycles for Rent in PDX
  • Nike Launch a travel by bike – https://biketownpdx.com/
  • There are lots of bike lanes
  • Spring Water Corridor runs the length of the Willamette River approximately 7-8 miles

• Need Tech help or supplies?
  • The Lloyd Center is close by and in old town Portland there is a full service Apple Stor

PDX Tips for purchases: There is no Sales Taxes in Oregon

• Restaurants near CiderCon
  • Red Robin
  • Spanish Tapas
  • Noble Rot – beautiful views of the city
  • Big Pink – City Grill on 33rd floor with great views
  • Sizzle Side Pizza
  • Spirit of 77 Seas recommends for good pub faire

• Grocery stores by Hyatt
  • Safeway approximately 3/4 mile
  • Trader Joes about 4 miles away in the Hollywood district

• Karaoke
  • Ambassador PDX Bar and Lounge
  • Alibi PDX
  • The Baby Ketten Club

PDX Tips: The city is Food Trucks heaven – Look for "Food Cart Pods" via Travel Portland 's online food cart finder

Cider

Cider Locations closest to Hyatt and Oregon Convention Center

• Schilling Cider House – a wide range of taps approx 1 Mile from the Hyatt
• Spirit of 777 Tap take over
• Pizza Thief – the tap
• Lil Spirits – a block and half from Convention Center – tap takeovers – 437 NE Lloyd Blvd Portland, OR 97232
• The Place PDX – A cider bar will be hosting multiple cider events

In Pearl District on west side of river

• Cider Bite – splits taps between sweet and dry
• Portland Cider Company – 35 taps
  • Locations in Oregon City and Beavertown
• Swift Cider is located in the north side of town

• Bring Cider or Beer Home
• The Place PDX – buy bottles to go
• John's Marketplace big collection of both cider and beer – 3560 SE Powell Blvd -Portland, OR
• McMenamins has a large selections
• New Seasons Market
• Pick up cider and beer at the Portland International Airport
  • Look for Made in Oregon Store in airport

Sean's PDX Tips for Fun in Portland

• Walk by the River
• Forest Park: The largest urban park in the country
• Mount Tabor Park
• Hopscotch – light and music theme area, high sensory experience (take an hour to enjoy)
• Dance: McMenamims at Lola's Room
• Relax and Soak at McMenamims Soaking Pool or Common Ground Wellness Center

PDX Tips for Cannabis: Oregon Legalized Cannabis in 2015. There are 5 dispensaries around the hotel conference center. Look up: WhatsLegalOregon.com

Mentions in this Cider Chat

• CiderCon 2024 January 15-19th, 2024 Portland Oregon
• Artisans by Cider Summit| Portland, Oregon January 20, 2024
• Oregon Cider Week January 13-20th, 2024
• Totally Cider Tours – France – listen to past episodes and get on the wait list for the 2024 tour!

It's time to make your Cider Notes for 2024

The list of cider notes can be quiet long, but in this episode we are going to make it doable and easy for you.

In this Cider Chat on Cider Notes

• The Talking Pommes encourage Ria to slow down
• Sign up for the last cider tour heading out at CiderCon 2024
• French Cider Tour reservations
• Wassails
  • January 5th at the Botanist and Barrel, Cedar Grove North Carolina
  • January 28th Berkshire Cider Project at the Tourist in North Adams Massachusetts
    • Learn about Wassailing in Episode 393

Past Cider Making Episodes

• 381 DIY Cider Making for Beginners
• 382 Beginner Tips for Squeaky Clean Cider Equipment
• 384 Beginner Cider Making Tips forPrimary Fermentation
• 386: Managing Cider's Secondary Fermentation – DIY Tips

Equipment needed for Cider's Secondary Ferment

Find a complete list with links to purchase at the Cider Making Equipment page at ciderchat.com

• Extra Apple Juice to for topping off
• Secondary Fermenter – glass carboy of equal size
• Airlock and Bung
• Racking Cane or Auto-Siphon
• Sanitizer
• Hydrometer or Refractometer
• Tubing & a clothes pin ( a Ria tip to have on hand for clamping tubing as you go so it can be managed to insure that the tube doesn't slip down into the lees and stir them up)
• Bottle Brush and Cleaning Equipment

Mentions in this Cider Chat

• 363: Exploring Cider Using 33 Books Flavor Wheel
• Sean Connolly Cider Experience
• Subscribe to Cider Chat YouTube Channel

What does Wassail & Drink Hail mean?

In this episode learn about meaning behind Wassail and Drink Hail from the Butler himself, Al Sax.

A Wassail is a celebration of the orchards, most typically apple orchards to honor the natural world and pay tribute with hopes of an abundant fruiting season moving forward.

A Wassail is also a cheer

• When you hear someone say "Wassail" it means -Be Healthy!
  • The reply is "Drink hail" – To your health!

Al as the Butler at the Wassail When time of year to Wassail?

Historically a Wassail would be held on the 6th of January or what is known as the Twelfth Night. Or on the 17th of January which is called "Old Twelvey"

Procession to the main Wassail fire

In these modern times a Wassail can take place when it is most appropriate considering the weather and outside temperatures. There is no strict protocols, but rather traditions that when followed harken us all back to our ancestral roots and pagan ways.

Where do Wassails take place?

In the orchard surrounding a large fire, a fire circle and in some places 12 small rings of fire for the 12 apostles or for the twelve signs of the Zodiac.

Indoor Wassails are also doable for those who can't go outside during -6 degree temperatures. Thus, a Wassail can take place at a Senior Center or a Day Care with songs being sung around a plant or small tree.

How to Make a Torch for Wassailing

The end goal is all the same, to sing to the orchard, the apple tree(s), to ward off the apple foes and to harken in better times ahead.

The Old Apple Tree of the Wassail How to Plan for your own Wassail

• Have a fire keeper who will make sure the wood is ready and lit to greet the parade of merry makers
• Set a meeting spot for everyone to gather and then walk to the oldest or largest apple tree. The fire is often very nearby.
• Have "Safe" Torches, flashlights to lead the crowd to the main fire
• Have some hot mulled cider, which is always good for a loud "Wassail and Drink Hail" reply
• Have a Master of the Ceremony or what is known as the "Butler"
• Select a King and Queen
• Have slices of Toasted bread
• Have Cider to drink and to pour a bit on the toast and onto the ground
• Hand out lyrics to the Wassail songs
• The King and Queen lead the group up to the Apple Tree
• Place the toast on the limbs
• Pour cider on the roots of the tree
• Make noise to ward off the evil spirts – this is your chance to call out "Wassail" and then reply "Drink Hail"!
• If Morris Dancers are available they would do a dance or two
• Have a taste of two of Wassail – pick an option that best suits your crowd. It can be a hot mulled cider, with or without spices or fortified with brandy, perhaps a wee bit of honey?

A two handled cup or goblet is the classic Wassail cup that would be passed round, but these days any fine drinking cup would do sans the passing around.

Wassail and Drink Hail around the world

• Willie Smiths Cider in Tasmania hosts an annual "Mid Winter Festival" in July
• Campaign for the Revival Of Wassailing (CROW)
  • www.nationaltrust.org.uk/petworth-house-and-park/recipes/petworths-traditional-wassail

Mentions in this Cider Chat

• 072: Lost Apple of the Quabbin |Massachusetts
• January 5, 2024 Wassail at Botanist and Barrel Cidery and Winery, 115 Persimmon Hill Ln, Cedar Grove, NC 27231-8807, United States
• Hear about the orchard samplers and cider made at Renaissance Orchards in Ferndale Washington in Episode 390

The Vodraska Brothers Chris & Matt of Bent Ladder

In the midst of a rich farming legacy emerged Bent Ladder Cider and Wine, based in Doylestown Ohio. Chris and younger brother Matt Vodraska are following in their father Dale's footsteps. Chris is the orchardist and viticulturist and Matt is the cidermaker. The farm is the story.

Chris Vodraska

Dating back to 1995 their father Dale was eyeing farmland that was by all accounts destine for development. In 2004, he "finally wore down the seller" as his sons put it and bought the 128 acre farm. Today there are 3-4 acres of vineyards and 30-40 acres of orchards. The site hosts both the Bent Ladder production area and stunning tasting room and Rittman Orchards & Farm Market.

Matt Vodraska In the Cider Chat with Chris and Matt Sunset view from tasting room

• The Vodraska Family's back story to present day
• The orchards,
  • Size, terrain, soil typeNumber of apple varieties
  • Orchard practices
• Kazakstan and Krygzstan scion wood graftings at Bent Ladder
  • Is this Malus Sieversii?
    • Up coming ciders with these apples
• Ciders at Bent Ladder
  • At the Tasting Room find draft, flights and glasses of select ciders
• Heritage Ciders in 750ml
  • Heriloom
  • Farmstead
  • Rose Gold – mostly Redfield in wine barrels
  • Black Gold a single varietal Gold Rush
  • Russet
  • EverCrisp Cider
• Cidermaking practices
• The tasting room

Contact Bent Ladder

• Website: https://bentladder.com/
• Rittman Orchard & Farm Store: https://rittmanorchards.com/
  • Find the Apple Chart that Chris Vodraska has been compiling at this page: https://rittmanorchards.com/apple-chart/

Mentions in this Cider Chat

• Dawes Arboretum
• Dr. Diane Miller
• CiderCon 2024 January 15-19th, 2024 Portland Oregon
• Artisans by Cider Summit| Portland, Oregon January 20, 2024
• Oregon Cider Week January 13-20th, 2024
• Totally Cider Tours – France – listen to past episodes and get on the wait list for the 2024 tour!

Saint Lawrence Nurseries is a specialized tree nursery in New York state, renowned for its expertise in cold-hardy fruit and nut trees with a committment to sustainable and organic practices. The nursery, which was originally founded in the 1920s by Fred L. Ashworth of Heuvelton, NY, was initially more of a hobby and experimental station for Ashworth. Bill MacKentley met Fred in 1971 and they developed a strong, almost familial relationship. After Fred's death in 1977, Bill and his wife Diana purchased the land in Potsdam, NY, where Fred had done much of his grafting and breeding. In 1981, they produced the first official St. Lawrence Nurseries catalog.

For 34 years, the MacKentleys cultivated Saint Lawrence Nurseries into a unique and well-loved business, carrying on Fred Ashworth's passion for growing and propagating fruits and nuts suitable for northern climates.

The MacKentley, were planning their retirement and phasing out their business around 2015. Connor Hardiman who began working at Saint Lawrence Nurseries years earlier stepped in to take over rather than allowing the nursery to close. He and his wife Alyssa are the new stewards of Saint Lawrence Nurseries and are helping to herald in a new era for the Nurseries.

Do note that many refer to Saint Lawrence Nurseries as SLN.

The Ups and Downs of Climate and Test Winters

Citing from a Cornell University study for 1981, that stated the the the previous 40 years had been the best years of agriculture (good weather patterns) in the world. Of particular note is that moving forward from 81 onward, one can now expect that the climate was returning to normal. Note that this was serval years before climate change was being discussed to the degree that it is today.

Says Bill, "We have got to get our act together [in regards to climate change].

Who is Fred L. Ashworth

Born in 1898, Ashworth studied the trees that survived the 1938 kill off of apples and studied them very closely. He began the nursery in the 1920s. He also worked with nut trees, potatoes and inspired Bill's career at Saint Lawrence Nurseries.

Role Models in Research

• Dr. Elaine Ingham – research on the soil and the food web – find out more at https://www.soilfoodweb.com/
• Paul Stamets – https://paulstamets.com/
• Dr. Christine Jones – soil ecologist https://soillearningcenter.com/expert/christine-jones/

Contact Saint Lawrence Nurseries

Connor Hardiman is now the steward of the Nurseries. Find his contact below and reach out to Connor to contact Bill.

• Website: https://www.slngrow.com/
• Address: 325 Rt 345, Potsdam, NY 13676
• eMail: [email protected]

Mentions in this Cider Chat

• CiderCon 2024 January 15-19th, 2024 Portland Oregon
• Artisans by Cider Summit| Portland, Oregon January 20, 2024
• Oregon Cider Week January 13-20th, 2024
• Totally Cider Tours – France – listen to past episodes and get on the wait list for the 2024 tour!

Meet Chris Rylands of Renaissance Orchards

First there was Cider Supply and then Chris founded Renaissance Orchards with his wife Melinda. This move was a natural progression of a series of events that include resources needed for making a keeved cider and the thirst for a particular style of cider.

The orchards and the Rylands are based in Ferndale a town just south of the Canadian border in Washington state.

Chris Rylands In this Cider Chat with Chris of Renaissance

• What happened to Cider Supply?
• Why French style ciders?
• The orchards at Renaissance
  • number of apple varieties and pear
• Products
  • cider
  • scion

Melinda Spotlight on Single Varietal Ciders

Hear how Chris dug into 16 cider specific apples to understand the best blending practices for cidermaking. Each label shows:

• a picture of the specific apple
• charts that apple's
  • tannin
  • aromatics
  • acidity
  • astringent
  • sweetness
  • phenolics
• The origin of the apple, including location
• How to use – best as a blender or as a single variety cider

Contact for Renaissance Orchards

• Website: https://renaissanceorchards.com/

Mentions in this Cider Chat

• CiderCon 2024 January 15-19th, 2024 Portland Oregon
• Artisans by Cider Summit| Portland, Oregon January 20, 2024
• Oregon Cider Week January 13-20, 2024
• Totally Cider Tours – France – listen to past episodes and get on the wait list for the 2024 tour!

Author Daniel J. Bussey's "The Illustrated History to Apples in the United States and Canada"

The Illustrated History of Apples in the United States and Canada is a seven-volume set of books that documents the history of apples in North America written by Daniel J. Bussey. The book was edited by Kent Whealy and published in 2016 by JAK KAW Press LLC.

Daniel J. Bussey

The set covers over 16,000 apple varieties, including nearly 10,000 synonyms and 1,400 watercolor paintings. Each volume is between 500 and 600 pages long and weighs 32 pounds (14.515 kg).

In 2018 this compendium received the Literary Award by the Council of Botanical and Horticultural libraries.

Dan was inspired by Fred Lape's book Apples and Man. Another key literature source was John Ashton Warner's American Pomology (1867). The bibliography with line drawings of apples resulted in developing links with a network of book dealers and a rather exhaustive delving into historic documents, that predated the internet, right across the USA in the archives of fruit and horticulture societies.

In this Chat with Dan Bussey

• Dan's journey to apples
• What propelled Bussey to write this book?
• How he gathered the info for researching this topic
• What readers can expect to find in the book
• How to use the book
  • Why the synonyms are important in this series.
• How many apples in the book – how many apples known today (worldwide)
• Favorite stories from writing the book
• Favorite apples?

Contact Daniel J. Bussey

Go to the contact page for JAK KAW Press https://www.jakkawpress.com/order

Mention in this Cider Chat

• New England Botanical Orchard at Tower Hill – Massachusetts
• CiderCon 2024 January 15-19th, 2024 Portland Oregon
• Artisans by Cider Summit| Portland, Oregon January 20, 2024
• Oregon Cider Week January 13-20, 2024
• Totally Cider Tours – France – listen to past episodes and get on the wait list for the 2024 tour!
• https://ciderchat.com/podcast/338french1/
• https://ciderchat.com/podcast/339bustour2/

Discover the Apple Grand-mères/Grandmothers of North America

Todd Little-Siebold (Ph.D.) spoke at New York Apple Camp (2023) on a presentation titled the "Three Grandmothers" or Grand-mères in French. The sub title is "We have to reframe how we think about the origins of American Apple".

Todd is a professor of history and Latin American studies at the College of the Atlantic based in Bar Harbor Maine. As such this presentation is academic in nature and inspires both present day pomologist and apple fans of today and tomorrow to continue to trace the ancestral roots of the apple. Enjoy this exploration in to the continuing research behind the origins of apples.

Todd Little-Siebold The "French" Grandmothers or Grand-mère

• Le grand- mère: Rienette Franche (Grise or Grauwe)
• Unknown 13
• Reinette a longue (Queue or Reinette a la long Queue)
• Calville Rouge

Understand (French) history to understand American Apples

This research requires looking at genetics and early settlement of French explores long before any English explorers showed up on North America.

Additional topics covered in this presentation:

• When and where, were the French (apple) ancestors brought to America?
• The early settlements on North America
• Bay of Funday the first orchard planted in 1604
• 4,000 French farmers in the Mississippi Valley in 1700s
• The Dutch impact of American apples
• What about the pilgrims? Didn't they bring apples to America?
• Native American's impact on apples in America
• Genetics provides some evidence, but still looking for missing links of why English apples aren't showing up.

Contact Todd Little-Seibold

• eMail: mailto:[email protected]
• Website: https://www.coa.edu/live/profiles/1136-todd-little-siebold/templates/details/faculty.php

Mentions in this Cider Chat

• CiderCon 2024 January 15-19th, 2024 Portland Oregon
• Portland, Oregon January 20, 2024 Artisan Cider Summit http://www.cidersummitnw.com/artisans