Cider Chat

There are so many title options for this episode, that all center around time spent in jail for one burgeoning cidermaker. "Busted Weed Grower Saved by Cider", was one that almost made the cut. But this podcaster wanted to find something uplifting for Sean McFarland who was a cannabis grower ,who did get busted and was from all accounts able to survive prison life due to support from his family and a new found passion for all things cider. This tale has all the predicable twists and turns one would expect when a big weed grower ends up in jail, but what makes this story completely unique is Sean himself.

As Sean sees it, if you are satisfied with your life as it is now why regret what got you there. His optimism plays a lead role in his narrative and that alone is worth a listen.

Sean and his then future wife who rekindled a childhood friendship while he was in jail

• Sean's journery from army brat to horticulture studies, squash growing and then cannabis
• Behind the scene of a mega pot bust
• Federal laws and Jail terms for cannabis growers
• Preparing for prison life
• Family matters
• Finding love while in prison
• Finding cider
• No regrets
• Minnesota law for felons who want to start a cidery

Sean and family in legally grown hemp[/caption]

Contact for Blackshire Farm Cider

Website: https://www.blackshirefarms.com/

] Sean working old family cider mill that has been rigged with salvaged parts

Mentions in this chat

• Send your questions to [email protected] about fermentation and yeast for an upcoming Q&A with Fermentis - Yeast and Fermentation Solutions for Cidermakers
• Subscribe to eCiderNews

Tom Oliver is just as acclaimed as his cider which makes Oliver's Cider and Perry Co. a global hit on two fronts. He is affable, engaging and knows his way around social media likely due to his work with the Scottish Rock Rock Band, The Proclaimers. Cidermakers are not well known for reposting news stories about themselves and their product, but Tom is a master of this one simple act that keeps Oliver's in the news and endears him to media. That singular step alone is just one of many giveaways that Tom provides to the slow moving cider industry.

This topic is key for makers looking to up level their online presence, but it was not the topic of conversation in this episode. Instead Ria and Tom caught up after the world shut down for the past 2 plus years at CiderCon 2023 held in Chicago.

• How minimal intervention is key for Oliver's Cider and Perry
• What is Farmhouse cider
  • Spontaneously fermented - wild yeast
  • Tannic cider and Perry Pears

At Oliver's there is no measuring of sugar or fiddling with the cider. In fact, Tom can be heard in most interviews saying "Don't fiddle with cider."

• More c0-ferments and collaborations!
• Bâtonnage
  • This is a technique used by winemakers, where the lees (yeast cells) are stirred into solution.
  • • Nano proteins are the biggest benefit of Bâtonnage
      • They release into the cider providing a perception of sweetness and body with out the sugar
    • Need at least 9 months to a year to get the nano proteins

    There are short term benefits.

    1. Yeast produces less carbon dioxide and bubbles.
       • They slow down after the first primary ferment.
       • Fermentation may have stopped but there is still sugar left.
    2. Lees absorb off aromas, except for H2S rotting egg smell.
    3. Bâtonnage helps to maintain a reductive state.
       • Full reduction - rotting smell is a type of reduction. Which helps protect the cider from oxidization and protect the flavor components.

Find out more about Bâtonnage by going to Episode 233: Ask Ryan Quarantine Quad Series where Ryan Monkman of Fieldbird Cider in Prince Edward County Canada provides an in depth overview of Bâtonnage and Maderisation (where the barrels are cooked).

Contact info for Oliver's Cider and Perry Company

• Website: https://www.oliversciderandperry.co.uk/

Mentions in this chat

• Send your questions to [email protected] about fermentation and yeast for an upcoming Q&A with Fermentis - Yeast and Fermentation Solutions for Cidermakers
• Subscribe to eCiderNews

There isn't one definitive language or lexicon for cider, which adds to its indescribable mystique. The ongoing debate around what cider is or isn't or should be doesn't help. It certainly feels like a present day problem defining cider, but is it? Or has this debate been going on for years?

To help us get to the root of this indescribable dilemma, we are featuring "A Systematic Approach to Tasting Cider" as presented by Richie Brady at CiderCon 2023, an annual trade conference hosted by the American Cider Association. This is Richie's second appearance on Cider Chat. We first heard about his research on the lexicon of cider in Episode 286: A Living Language of Cider.

Richie provides a road map, complete with historical references and present day trends that helps us sort through this indescribable mess!

Richie Brady presenting at CiderCon 2023

• Richie Brady's background
• Difficulties in describing taste: Language
• Proposed Systematic Approach to Tasting Cider
• Considering Cider's Lexicon

• @Sabatinis_Bottleshop - has a tasting room and served Domain Dupont Pommeau
• April 28th Kickoff Party - EsoTerra Ciderworks
• Fermentis - Yeast and Fermentation Solutions for Cidermakers
• Subscribe to eCiderNews

Haven't downloaded this episode yet? Here it is again for your listening pleasure.

Colin Scott has spent his life in orchards, learning how to tended them with his parents, Edward and Janice as role models. This episode is a testament of what it looks like to embody a craft as part of your way of life. Colin like many orchardist may not be a Mandalorian, a character from Star Wars who is now featured in a stand alone tv series depicting a a clan-based culture composed of members from multiple species and bound by a common creed, language and code, but he like many orchardist who grew up tending trees from an early age see orchard care as A Way of Life.

This episode first released in Season 2 of Cider Chat on episode 093 and was re-produced for Season 8. The info is evergreen and timely for those of us who love orchards and want to broaden our own knowledge base.

E.J. Scott Orchard was purchased in 1954. (Note that the first initial of Colin's parents in the business name) Today Colin is running the orchard and the apple storage facility site which is discussed at the beginning of this episode. E & J Scott Orchard also has apricots, blackberries, blueberries, cherries, grapes, nectarines, peaches, pears, plums, quince, raspberries, & strawberries. Their main store is in Ashfield, MA and is open Sat & Sun 10-6 July through May. Organic duck eggs from their heritage breed Ancona ducks are also available upon request.

Colin using his dad's grafting tool

We begin this chat with Colin inside one of the Apple storage rooms.

• temperature
• ethylene gas - apples off gas
• Apples are placed in a CA room (Controlled Atmosphere) where both temperature, oxygen and the off gases are controlled.

If apples don't have oxygen they don't ripen. Colin and I discuss the "delicate" process of storing apples or what he called "putting them to sleep".

Apple storage tip: Take your apples out of the refrigerator every once in a while and let them off gas. That will help them last a bit longer.

New and old grafting tools

• the beginnings of the orchard and what they grew and where they are going with the growing cider market
• Root Stock for grafting a tree - dwarf or standard
• Shifting his market to cider apples
• What do you look for in a root stock

"The idea behind grafting is to take the variety that you want and put it on the root stock you want. The vigor of the variety contributes to the size of the tree."

The numbering system of the root stock defines the size of the tree or a percentage of the size of the tree

• M rootstock 9, 11, 18, 26 what does that stand for? If you put a Macintosh on standard tree rootstock and a Macintosh on a 26, you would get 30 -40-% of the standard one. A M118 or M111 are going to be 6--70% the size, which means they will be almost as big as a standard tree.

Today Colin is using Geneva root stock, because he is finding it resistant to Fire Blight. A nasty disease that can kill the tree.

Geneva root stock numbering system is random too. Colin is using Geneva 41 & 935. They will be 30-40% of the standard tree. He uses a bench graft on his root stock.

• Lining up the cambium layers
• Getting it airtight

We also chat pruning an apple tree, especially a tree that you are attempting to revive after years of neglect.

Contact E & J Scott Orchard

• email: mailto:[email protected]
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/E-J-Scott-Orchards-2017815285121065/

Mentions in this chat

• Oesco, Inc - professional grade supplies for orchards and cidermakers.

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

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• Twitter@ciderchat
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Dave Selden created 33 Books to help all of us track our favorite and not so favorite beverages! He is a graphic designer by trade, but soon found himself making tasting note books as a hobby which soon became a full time print business. The design of the note book for Cider called 33 Mugs of Cider provides an easy to follow script that one can refer back to again and again.

Dave and Cider Chat MC Ria Windcaller taste and make notes on a cider and perry from the Pacific Northwest maker Alma Cider. In this podcast episode, the conversation focuses in on the cider and how to use the tasting notebook - 33 Mugs of Cider. There is an additional option where you can watch and listen to the full conversation which was videoed at the Cider Chat YouTube Channel. In the video, Dave and Ria also go taste an Alma Perry, made with perry pears.

• Learn how to use a flavor wheel
• Learn the 3 key components to decipher in any cider
  • Acid
  • Tannin
  • Sweetness
• How to describe body
• Get pro-tips on tasting cider, i.e., at what temperature is best?

Contact info for 33 Books Co.

• Website: https://www.33books.com/

Mentions in this Chat

• Hardball Cider Start Engine Campaign
• Fermentis - Yeast and Fermentation Solutions for Cidermakers
• Press Then Press - online cider retail store where you can purchase Alma Ciders!
• Alma Cider - Listen to a chat with Dave Klawer of Alma Cider on Episode 325
• Subscribe to eCiderNews

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter@ciderchat
• Instagram:@ciderchatciderville
• Cider Chat FaceBook Page
• Cider Chat YouTube

[ Tristan Wright on the French Cider Tour

Tristan and Katie Wright are the owners of Lost Boy Cider, and now also the Lost Girl Wine brand, based in Alexandria, Virginia. Discover the journey of Tristan, a reluctant banker that developed a gluten intolerance and then found his place in cider.

Katie Wright making Lost Girl Wine

• Urban cidery
• Tasting Room next to production facility
• Judgement Free - Inclusive Zone
• 20 Ciders on Tap
• Sugar free, unpasteurized un filtered cider
• Apples from Glaize family in Virginia

Contact info for Lost Boy Cider

• Website: https://www.lostboycider.com/

Mentions in this Chat

• Fermentis - Yeast and Fermentation Solutions for Cidermakers.
• Subscribe to eCiderNews

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter@ciderchat
• Instagram:@ciderchatciderville
• Cider Chat FaceBook Page
• Cider Chat YouTube

In this episode pre-recorded at CiderCon 2023, you'll get to hear from cider makers who will share their knowledge and expertise on the topic of sulfur dioxide cider. Plus, you'll learn about the safety and health implications of adding SO2, as well as the legal limits for different markets.

1. What are the potential benefits and drawbacks of using sulfur dioxide (SO2) in the cidermaking both in the US and the UK.

2. How has the ban of BPA in California impacted the cider industry and what have can manufacturers done to adjust?

3. What strategies can winemakers and cider makers use to ensure their products are properly protected against oxidation and microbial spoilage?

4. Makers conclusion on whether SO2 is necessary for making cider.

(l to r) Tim Godfrey, Dave Takush, Teagan Bium, Tom Oliver

• Moderator Tim Godfrey is the head of Godfrey Beverage Solutions
• Dave Takish is the head cider maker and co-owner of Oregon's 2 Towns Cider House
• Tegan Bium is the cider maker at Virginia's Lost Boy Cider
• Tom Oliver owner and cider maker at Oliver's Cider and Perry Company | Herefordshire, England's

Mentions in this Chat

• Fermentis - Yeast and Fermentation Solutions for Cidermakers.
• Carbonic Maceration for making cider - Revel Cider - Canada
• Subscribe to eCiderNews

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter@ciderchat
• Instagram:@ciderchatciderville
• Cider Chat FaceBook Page
• Cider Chat YouTube

This Taproom Tips workshop was presented at CiderCon 2023 by Katie Black and Megan MacLean and it is packed with info!

In this episode

• A four prong approach to brand identity
• How to respond to taproom reviews
• 3 key factors when building culture for a taproom
• Hiring tips and training tips
• The timeline of a tasting room
• Recruiting systems and training
• Interview tips from Meghan
• Integrating future growth in your design
• Draft systems
• The "secret" dishwasher
• Polishing your glassware - do you have space?
• Cider cocktails set up
• The flow behind the bar design
• Bathrooms design
• In house residencies - food trucks vendors
• Bar Bible and what it should have

Katie entered the CiderCon® world in 2021 as of the first Kulture scholarship recipients. Her endless love for fermentation & product development peaked her curiosity on fruited ferments.

She calls the beautiful Blue Ridge Mountain town of Asheville, North Carolina home. Here, she also graduated from the Craft Beverage Institute of the Southeast with a Brewing, Distillation, & Fermentation degree.

Consulting has been part of the last 6 years for Katie in various realms of business, with a primary focus in the food & beverage world. The majority of her experience started within the brewing industry; from business openings, management, & even working her way into the cellar. This landed her with reopening & rebranding the original taproom at Artifact Cider Project. Before that, you could find her working for DSSOLVR brewing and spending sunrises harvesting in the mountains. She currently is working as an assistant distiller at the notable amaro distillery, Eda Rhyne.

Contact for Katie Black

• [email protected]
• Instagram @bevswithkb

Megan MacLean is a hospitality operations consultant with 14 years of experience in restaurants and taprooms. She specializes in private events, recruiting, training programs, people management, and operational system design. Most recently, Megan served as the hospitality director for Artifact Cider Project. She has since launched a solo consulting business, aimed at improving the industry she has come to know and love. Megan lives in Boston and travels extensively, working with clients all over the country.

Contact for Megan MacLean

• [email protected]
• @m_f_mac on Instagram

Mentions in this Chat

• Grafting Workshop at Brook Farm Orchard, Ashfield Massachusetts April 15, 2023 1-3 pm
  • contact Alan Suprenant [email protected]
• Canuck Cider Cup - entries in by April 21, 2023
• Revolution will not be Pasteurized - Ross on Wye Cider and Perry Co. 2023 keg tour
  • Follow Ross Cider on Facebook
  • @rosscider on Instagram

• Fermentis - Yeast and Fermentation Solutions for Cidermakers.

• Subscribe to eCiderNews

Help Support Cider ChatPlease donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter@ciderchat
• Instagram:@ciderchatciderville
• Cider Chat FaceBook Page
• Cider Chat YouTube

Tim Vala had a vision over 39 years ago to build a destination for family fun. It started with a Upick strawberry patch that grew into a pumpking patch, orchard. It then evolved into kid friendly rides and food stands. Vala's Pumpking Patch and Orchard is located to the southwest of Omaha and draws over 300,000 visitor per year during the months of September and October. The rest of the season it is closed so that workers can take care of the property, orchards, pumpkin patches and rides...and of course get ready for the next season's opening day.

During the height of the season 1000 seasonal workers are hired. During the off season 30+ employees staffed to maintain the grounds and prepare for the next season.

Meet Kelsey and David Donovan. Kelsey is one Tim and Jan Vala's three daughters. She is a co-owner and works at the COO and David is the head cidermaker.

Hear about:

• The history behind Vala's
• Vala's cider
• The future for this enterprising family

Website: https://www.valaspumpkinpatch.com/

Mentions in this Chat

• Fermentis - Yeast and Fermentation Solutions for Cidermakers.

• Bottles on My Desk - a live Stream with Cider Chat Producer and Emcee Ria Windcaller. Subscribe to be notified when the next "Bottles on My Desk" goes live at the Cider Chat YouTube Channel
• Subscribe to eCiderNews

Help Support Cider ChatPlease donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter@ciderchat
• Instagram:@ciderchatciderville
• Cider Chat FaceBook Page
• Cider Chat YouTube

A pre-recorded seminar from CiderCon 2023 with 3 influential panelist based in New York.

[caption id="attachment_8097" align="aligncenter" width="200"] (l to r) Greg, Elizabeth, Ian, Ria[/caption]

Hear from:

• Elizabeth Ryan a Hudson Valley resident and owner of six historic farms, three of which are orchards.
• Gregory Peck PhD is a renowned pomologist and professor at Cornell University.
• Ian Merwin PhD is a lifetime farmer and cider maker who has been growing apples and making cider since 1985.

1. The historic proliferation of apple varieties in North America and the influence of indigenous communities on the Hudson Valley's apple industry.

2. The remarkable trade of Newtown Pippins from the Hudson Valley in the 18th and 19th centuries, and the wealth it brought to the region.

3. The revival of historic apple varieties in the Hudson Valley, such as Esopus Spitzenburg, Jonathan, and Northern Spy, and the unique characteristics of each.

[00:11:59]

Feature presentation on The History, Pomage and Terroir of New York's Ciders featuring 3 premier apples:

• Newtown Pippin
• Northern Spy
• Esopus Spitzenberg

• Fermentis - Yeast and Fermentation Solutions for Cidermakers.

• Bottles on My Desk - a live Stream with Cider Chat Producer and Emcee Ria Windcaller. Subscribe to be notified when the next "Bottles on My Desk" goes live at the Cider Chat YouTube Channel
• Subscribe to eCiderNews

Help Support Cider ChatPlease donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter@ciderchat
• Instagram:@ciderchatciderville
• Cider Chat FaceBook Page
• Cider Chat YouTube