Cider Chat

Orchards can be as small as 2, 5 or 10 trees. Get tips on how to manage a small scale orchard at CiderDays 2.0 with John Bunker on November 5th at 9am. Get updates and ticket information by following Cider Chat and signing up for the eCiderNews.

Edith Walden is the Quince Queen

On Guemes Island in Washington state, Edith Walden started her quince journey in 1995 and soon became known as the Quince Queen. The island is short ferry ride from Anacortes and the land itself where Edith has her orchard of quince, apples, pears and more fruit was once the homestead of the Mathew Brothers and dates back to 1858. As such there is a 160 year old Gravenstein apple tree that sits in the center of the orchard. Edith calls it the Mother Tree.

The Quince Queen founded Willowrose Bay, Inc selling her magnificient quince to Whole Foods and regional cider makers

Edith to the left with friend harvesting quince

In this Chat

• How Edith became the Quince Queen
• Growing Quince
• She spaced her trees 9' and 12' apart
• Quince pests
• Varieties of Quince and their viability for retail and cider
  • Aromatnaya
  • Cooke's Jumbo -Golden and breed by California grower
  • Havran, Havran II, Havran III (unknown true variety)
  • Kuanching - Chinese
  • Kuganskaya - Russian
  • Meech's Prolific -bred by Mr Meech, tasty - has a black spot on it - good for cider
  • Queen's - sweet by not prolific, maybe better grown in other areas
  • Smyrna - too small for retail - though sweet
  • Tashkent - Turkish
  • Van Deman - bred by Luther Burbank in California
  • Zvezdnaia - Russian , Jerry Lehman out of Ohio, said great for cider - huge & apple shape
• The future of WillowRose Bay Inc.

The quince orchard of Willowrose Bay Inc

Quince Books

• Quince Culture: An Illustrated Hand-Book for the Propagation and Cultivation of the Quince
  • • Author Willam Meech, named a quince variety after himself. This is the consummat book on growing Quince and dates back to the 1800's

• Simply Quince by the Queen of Quince, Barbara Ghazarian, a quince cookbook

Contact for Willowrose Bay Inc

• eMail: [email protected]

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Orchards can be as small as 2, 5 or 10 trees. Get tips on how to manage a small scale orchard at CiderDays 2.0 with John Bunker on November 5th at 9am. Get updates and ticket information by following Cider Chat and signing up for the eCiderNews.

Orchards in Winter with Alan Suprenant

Alan was last on Cider Chat in Episode 312: Some Angels Dress Like Bears a tribute to Orchardist and Author Michael Phillips who passed away suddenly in his own orchard this year 2022. In this week's episode, we hear what is called Stories in Ciderville, a recording that Alan sent my way this Spring. Listeners are welcome to send recorded stories that they wrote which reflect upon cider, apples, orchards, pears, basically anything pome related.

In this episode we hear a recording from Alan that he wrote to share with his fellow parishioners in a congregation in Ashfield, Massachusetts that he attends.

Orchards Lessons

In this Stories from Ciderville, Alan shares his continuing grief over the loss of his dear friend Michael, but that is only one part of the story. The bigger picture is his encouragement to reflect upon our own personal caretaking and nurturing of relationships that feed us well, much like a well tended orchard. And conversely to prune that which no longer serves us. Most timely, is Alan's perspective of seeing the best in people, something that I can wholeheartedly embrace at a time when there is so much angst in the world.

Enjoy this mini Cider Chat and special edition of Stories in Ciderville.

Have a story to tell for the "Stories in Ciderville" segment?

• Must be 3000 words or less or under 4 audio minutes
• Apples and pommes must be integrated into the story line
• Send your essay and a recording of yourself reading your essay to [email protected]

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CiderDays 2.0 November 4th and 5th, 2022 - Greenfield, MA tickets for live August 1, 2022

Sign up for Cider Chat's eNews to get updates on CiderDays 2.0

Getting to Alma

An affection to snow brought Dave Klawer to Washington State. Instead of becoming a professional snowboarder he became a nurse a while he continues to grow his cider brad Alma Cider. This year he finished his Masters in Agriculture to continue enriching his own wealth of knowledge in the field at Washington State University under the tutelage of Carol Miles.

Alma Cider began commercially pressing apples to produce cider in 2019

Dave and Heather

Covered in this chat

• western Washington state and the Skagit Valley and apple growing in this region
• How Alma leases equipment from Tulip Winery, which by the way had a cider back in 2007 under their other label Burro Locco win Best in Show at the Great Lakes Cider and Perry Competition (GLINTCAP).
• How Alma is able to produce award winning cider while waiting for their own orchard to bear fruit in the coming years
• Future for Alma Cider
  • Shooting for 2024 to have own facility

Alma won Best in Show for their Wood Aged Cider at GLINTCAP

Alma won Best in Show for their Wood Aged Cider 2021

Alma's Flagship Cider

• Dry
• Semi Sweet
• Hopped Cider
• Rose
• Wood Aged

Contact for Alma Cider

• website: https://almacider.com/
• Get Alma on tap at Tulip Valley Winery

Mentions in this Chat

• USDA RBS bank find scion wood for grafting
• FEDCO for scion wood
• 208 Calvados and Apple Brandy Tasting

Please Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

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Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.
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Why Family Matters for Šraml

In a time when it is getting harder and harder to know exactly where most products come from, it is refreshing to know about the Šraml family and the enterprise that employees nearly the whole town of Podnanos in Solvenia. The company was founded by two brothers, when one wanted a wine press and decided to make it himself. Today the Šraml legacy lives on as the men's sons are now taking the helm of the factory and design center that is located close to the Adriactic sea by Italy. At CiderCon 2022 in Richmond, Virginia, Ria, Cider Chat MC, had the opportunity to have a sit down chat with Jan Šraml, who like his father is a mechanical engineer and continues the tradition of quality customer service and design.

Jan Šraml

In this Chat

The country of Slovenia, a country of fermenters, and the company's line of equipment that helps makers get from apple to bottles.

• In Slovenia - every family has a wine cellar or what is called a "hrm" pronouced Herr-rem

• Different levels of equipment

  • For makers working with 500 kilos of apples or wine ( 1100 pounds) to 10 tons

  • 2 types of presses offered by Šraml

    • Pneumatic - good for keeved cider can do a bit of maceration

    • Continuous belt press

The Šraml family in the family's Hrm (cellar) with the "egg" used for fermenting.

Contact for Šraml

• website: https://sraml.com/
• North America distributor of Šraml equipment - Criveller group

Mentions in this Chat

• CiderDays 2.0 November 4th and 5th, 2022 - Greenfield, MA tickets for live August 1, 2022
  • Sign up for Cider Chat's eNews to get updates on CiderDays 2.0
• French Cider Tour Normandy & Brittany, France - September 18th-24th, 2022
• Episode 323: Kazakhstan has Cider at last | Apple City Cider

Please Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

• Join the #ciderGoingUP Campaign today!

Apples started their world tour from Kazakhstan but…

It is inconceivable, but true that in the home land, the epicenter, the frick'n ground zero of all apples globally there is no history of cidermaking in Kazakhstan. Welcome 2022 and the pioneering team of Aizhan, who is Kazak, and her French husband Alex Thomas. Together they are changing the course of history for the worlds' 9th largest country that has the one boast that no other region of the world can claim: Kazakhstan is where apples originated. Thanks to the Silk Road for helping apples travel!

Aizhan and Alex Thomas sipping Apple City Cider with a a breath taking view in the background Apple City Cider

Based in the city of Almaty or what was once known as Alma-Ata meaning Grandfather Apple, there is now Apple City Cider's new production facility and tasting room. The Thomas family ferment Malus Sieversii (wild apples) which there are 400 known varieties. In the rest of the world, cider makers use Malus Domestica which originally came from Malus Sieversii. It is much like domestic dogs are related to wolves, but the two are very different and the reason why Kazakhstan's apple scene is so unique.

Malus Siversii

In the Tian Shan Mountain range that borders China and Kyrgyzstan lies the largest swath of wild apple forest in the world. The city of Alma-Ata (now Almaty) in the southern region of the country at one time had only 5000 inhabitants versus the 2 million residents of today and also wild apple forest. Sadly, like many apple trees in countries all over the world, orchards have or are being cleared for construction. Thus, the Tian Shan Mountains are critical to the preservation of what remains of the once extensive forest of wild apple trees and is now a Natural Park Reserve.

One must secure a permit and be escorted to visit the wild apple forest, which can be a daunting task. But one does not need to visit the mountains to taste the apples, they can simply head to Almaty and visit Apple City Cider!

Cider Made In Kazakhstan

• Almaty Classic (6.0%) has been bottled. Expect a crisp and refreshing cider made with cultured yeast and wild apples. Alex says it is "fresh, fruity, and acid driven".
• The Almaty Export is aging in oak and is a blend of native and cultured yeasts.
• Both ciders and all future Apple City Ciders moving forward are bottled in 750ML with crown caps.

The Movie: Cider in Kazakhstan

• The Thomas filmed a documentary on the wild apple forest in Kazakhstan with special guests, Andrew Lea, Claude Jolicoeur, Ryan Burk and Peter Mitchell. The documentary which is 2 hours and 13 minutes (is divided up into 3 Parts) has been reformatted into a one hour show and is slated to be featured on Amazon Prime.
• Watch on Vimeo

Contact for Apple City Cider

• Website: https://applecitycider.com/

Mentions in this Cider Chat

• CiderCon 2023 Call for proposals – go to ciderassociation.org
• French Cider Tour Normandy & Brittany, France – September 18th-24th, 2022

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The Pacory Family at Grimaux in Domfrontais Began in 1939 when Marcel Pacory bought 20 hectres of land with what was called a forest of apple and pears trees. Marcel had three sons Paul, Claude & Marcel and three daughters who were all involved in the operations of the farm which produced both milk products and cider/poiré.

Frédéric Pacory

Today, Claude's son Frédéric Pacory runs cidermaking after his father retired in 1989. The farm is certified organic. There are over 100 hectres (200+ acres) with 800 pear tree and 600 apple trees. All the trees are standard size.

Wife Catherine and son Simon and Frédéric's sister Héléne also work on the farm.

Pacory Products

Expect award winning bottles of both cider and poiré plus Calvados.

• Poirés
  • The ideal! - won first prize in a 2022 Normandy competition
    • There are a number of Poirés to try along with pear juice
• Cider
• Calvados
• Apértifs
  • Grim du Poire is a a blend of pear juice and Calvados
• Vinegar

Contact for Pacory

• Website

Mentions in this Chat

• French Cider Tour Normandy & Brittany, France - September 18th-24th, 2022

Group photo the roof of the Castle at Eric Bordelet[/caption]

Please Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

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French Cider Tour with Eric Bordelet

Reservations for the Normandy and Brittany Cider Tour have been extended to June 15, 2022. Find the trip itinerary and reservation link at https://ciderchat.com/france-cider-tour

At the Cidery with Eric Bordelet

In this episode we hear about techniques and classifications of cider made by the well known French cidermaker Eric Bordelet, during a previous French Cider Tour in 2018.

Eric Bordelet t-shirt w:Didier Dagueneau on Front

This chat takes off with Eric talking about the difference between apples and pears and that it is critical to watch the PH of Pears when fermenting. This clip is taken from a longer clip that is part of a bonus audio available to all at the Cider Chat Patreon Page.

• Steps from crushing to blending
• Collage - a French winemaking term that he uses to fine the juice and cider
• Bentonite - a clay used in fining - the clay dust binds with the heavy juice particles and they drop to the bottom and are removed
• Transitioning a family business
• Temperature control in cidermaking
• Instead of bentonite clay for fining the cider Eric uses porcelain filtration system
• Controlling the speed of fermentation - how to extend fermentation if the outside temperature is fluctuating.
• Eric use of words to explain his products - for instance "gastronomic"
  • he makes two kinds of ciders gastronomic and Bretagne which he explains in this episode. He will make a Cidre Doux (a sweet cider) with a variety of apples
  • The gastronomy cuvee Eric use a wide variety of apples and uses the same proportion or percentage of apple (or pears for his poire) each year. This way you can compare the vintage from year to year. The weather will make each vintage unique. He uses his own palate to decide how it will be and "does not leave the choice to others"
• Stopped fermentation
• Separating cider to make different blends

Then we move out of the sun and and offer up the last couple of minutes for you to listen as we move into the tasting room.

Contact Eric Bordelet

• Website: https://ericbordelet.com/

Mentions in this Chat

• French Cider Tour Normandy & Brittany, France - September 18th-24th, 2022

Group photo the roof of the Castle at Eric Bordelet

• Episode 172: "Tasting with Eric Bordelet" begins at 10:35 minutes in.

Please Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

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The September 2022 French Cider Tour will visit the Musée du Cidre and Ciderie Prié. Find out more at the info page

Karine Prié

The History of the Musée du Cidre

Jean-Yves Prié (1948-2021) and wife Janine founded the Musée du Cidre (The Cider Museum) in 1987 on a farm and orchard dating back to 1850. The family is now the 5th generation of makers on the farm, only recently they began selling it commercially when the museum opened. In 2018 the Musée was updated and expanded to now overlook the cider production. Upon arrival the entrance is flanked by apples trees. There is a large circular cider mill where at one time a horse would have been hitched up to the long wooden arm to whirl about a heavy circular stone that crushed the apples.

To the left is a bottle shop and tasting room where Cider, Pommeau and Calvados can be purchased. In this same area is a spacious gift shop. I spent a bit of time just gazing upwards at the architecture of the old wooden ceiling.

Inside the Musée du Cidre

The museum entrance is across from the bottle shop and definitely worth a visit! The first room has an assortment of collections both on apples and photos of cidermaking in the region. I thought that was enough but was then lead into the new addition with high ceilings and a collection of historical cidermaking equipment.

Son Philippe Prié has taken over the cidermaking duties and his wife Karine the museum and store. Today is it a show piece that has breathtaking views and of course excellent cider!

Philippe Prié

Cidre Prié

• 44 different apple varieties
• At the entrance is a conservancy for the apples in the area to keep the really old varieties
• 3 full time employees
• A working farm with milk cows and orchards

Contact for Musée du Cidre and Cidre Prie

• Website: https://www.museeducidre.fr/

Mentions in this Chat

• French Cider Tour | Normandy and Brittany September 18th-24th, 2022

2018 Totally Cider Tour at Domaine Dupont

Support this Sponsors of Cider Chat, so they can continue to support this podcast and help you make great cider!

• Fermentis - Yeast and Fermentation Solutions for Cidermakers

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Bretagne's Domaine Jouny

In 1997 Arnaud Jouny was a professional bee keeper. In 2014 he built the current building where he both makes cidre and poire and also distills. He also makes a local product known as Chouchen. All products made at Domaine Jouny are grown or raisded (bees) using organic practices.

Arnaud Jouny holding Eau de Vie Poire

What is Chouchen

Chouchen is kind of a cross between a Cyser and Mead. A Cyser is a fermentation of apple juice with some honey. Mead is fermented honey.

Chouchen is the process of first fermenting apple juice and then adding honey. It is believed that the Druids introduced Chouchen to the locals and rumored that they also added bee bodies and bee venom. It is also said, that one glass of Chouchen would make you fall backwards and not wake up until a few days later. Today Chouchen is enjoyed as an aperitif.

Where is Domaine Jouny Located

From the coastal city of Saint Malo, Domaine Jouny is about a 30 minute drive to the east. There are some apples trees on site, but Arnaud gets most of his fruit from nearby orchards.

Front face of Domaine Jouny

Contact Arnaud Jouny

• Website: https://cidreriedistilleriejouny.fr/

Mentions in this Chat

• French Cider Tour Normandy & Brittany, France - September 18th-24th, 2022

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Domaine du Manoir de Montreuil with Patrice Giard

In this episode: Patrice Giard recorded during the Totally Cider Tour to Normandy France in September 2018. The upcoming 2022 French Cider Tour will be making a stop at this ciderie.

• Patrice is a 13th generation cidermaker at this family farm.
• Patrice, his wife and his daughter are running the farm. His daughter's focus is on milk production with Patrice focusing on the cider production.
• The trees in the orchard that we were walking in were planted in 1996.

In the tasting room Patrice Giard

Some of the Apples tasted during this recording

• Domaine du Calvados also known as De Clou
• Bisque
• Frequin Rouge

Orchard at Domaine du Manoir de Montreuil

• 30 hectares of orchards on a 120 hectare farm
• Standard size trees
• The orchard management is to prunes the apples trees every three years.
• The orchards itself has 50 different varieties
• As required by the appellation of Pays d'Auge Patrice needs to have a map of the apple varieties in the orchard
• Patrice does not use any pesticides on his orchards.

Orchard management tip:

When Patrice notices insects on the trees, he lets the cows in the orchard to graze and they will scratch their bodies on the trees and in turn knock off the insects.

While standing in the oak barrel room I asked 'What is the minimum time that the barrels stay empty" The reply is that "There is no reason to keep the barrels empty" :)

Contact for Domaine du Manoir de Montreuil

• Address: D101 -D85A, 14340 MONTREUIL-EN-AUGE

Mentions in this Chat

• French Cider Tour Normandy & Brittany, France - September 18th-24th, 2022

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