Cider Chat

Gary Flowers is a keynote speaker, radio host and the tour guide who leads the Jackson Ward history tour. The tour was one of a number of pre-conference tour offerings for CiderCon2022 attendees who had flocked to the city of Richmond, Virginia in the first week of February. The food and cider was abundantly delicious, with stops at the wildly popular restaurant MamaJ's and Cheddar Jackson. But it was Flowers who really stole the show and kept our small group riveted with fact after fact on the history of the Jackson Ward community.

Gary Flowers

In this episode hear the beginning of the tour with Gary Flowers.

• Woodland Cemetery
• Bacon Rebellion

Contact for Gary Flowers

• Website: Walking the Ward with Gary Flowers

Diane Flynt provides the opening keynote for CiderCon 2022 and encouraged the audience to embrace the story of Apples! Hear in this episode her full keynote address!

Diane Flynt

A bit about Diane Flynt via the American Cider Association website

"Diane began in 1997 when she founded Foggy Ridge Cider, the first licensed cidery in the South, by planting cider apples, including many southern varieties. From 2004-2018 Foggy Ridge Cider produced 5300 gallons a year of orchard-focused ciders that was distributed across 15 states.

Since its first production, Foggy Ridge Cider gained a national reputation for high quality cider. Foggy Ridge was featured on CBS Sunday Morning Show, and in publications including Gourmet, Imbibe, Saveur, Garden & Gun, Esquire and Martha Stewart Living. Food & Wine magazine named Foggy Ridge a "Small Batch Superstar" in 2010. MADE: In America awarded Foggy Ridge a 2012 American Treasurer's Award, recognition for artisan producers. Foggy Ridge Cider received many "best of" awards, including a top rating from the New York Times for its Serious Cider blend.

Flynt herself was nominated for the James Beard Award for Outstanding Beverage Professional in 2015 and 2016, and was a finalist for this award in 2017 and 2018. She speaks on cider, farming and food culture in national and regional forums."

Contact Foggy Ridge Cider

Website: https://foggyridgecider.com/

Maggie Lena Walker Statue - a key heroine of Jackson Ward

Mentions in this Chat

Support these Sponsors of Cider Chat so they can continue to support this podcast and help you make great cider!

• Fermentis - Yeast and Fermentation Solutions for Cidermakers
• Sraml - Food Processing and Cidermaking equipment specialist

Fermentis -

Sraml - Food Processing and Cidermaking equipment specialist

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Arjen Meeusem shares his story of living in Portland, Oregon and how a stop at Reverend Nat's Hard Cider to taste the cider inspired him to find out more about this niche market and its viability to make cider in the Netherlands.

Arjen Meeuwsen outside the estate based cidery

Arjen and his business partners began their cidery in an old green house and then moved to their current location in a 250 square meter shed and utilize the outdoor space for storing their cider.

In 2022, the cidery is expanded with a new tasting room and expand production area just outside of Amsterdam set to be open in the summer.

Elegast's goal is to use the rising interest in cider to help steer consumers to drink cider to help the orchards aka Drink Cider ~ Save Orchards!

Elegast's Saison Cider is a lovely frothy cider with a nod to Saison beers with a cider structure all its own.

The goal is to balance the acidity and boost the profile so that there is enough mouthfeel to entice the drinker despite the lack of tannins in the current apples now growing in the Netherlands.

The cidery has access to old estate orchards with trees dating back to 1939, which is actually an Unesco Heritage Site marking the demarcation line and trenches used during the World War I.

All of Elegast Ciders can be drunk year round, but some might find your palate requesting them during select months.

Barrel Aged Ciders - Elegast has a range of barrel aged ciders that can be drunk in the winter and equally enjoyed by fans on a chilly spring, summer or fall evening.

Fruit Cider Series - Whole fruits are co-fermented and macerated to incorporate the taste and color of the skin and fruit

And excellent cider for the Spring and Summer

Terroir Series - Apples from specific orchards and allowed to ferment with the ambient yeast or what is often referred to as spontaneous yeasts

Website: https://elegastcider.nl/

Address: Hoorneboeg 4a, 1213 RE Hilversum, Netherlands

Mentions in this Chat

• Gary Flowers Richmond Virginia's Jackson Ward Tour Guide and multi media star and host of the Gary Flowers Show
• Peariodic Table of Pome Fruit commissioned by Randal Grahm - Put your name into the drawing for Patrons of Cider Chat by becoming a Patron at the Cider Chat Patreon Page for members at the $5 and up level.

• New York International Cider Competition - February 21, 2022 4rd Annual New York International Cider Competition for commercial makers. Judges are real buyers making this competition stand apart from all others in cider. Send in your ciders now.

Commercial Makers - Enter the New York International Cider Competition

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Offers business tips before you break ground, when your product is being sold and how to tap into a wider audience.

Arjen's goal is "Being Present and Being Visible... and Providing a Good Product"

Arjen Meeuwsen

• Size
• Growing with the market
  • Managing your stock
  • Cash flow
  • Labor vs the economy of machines
• Widening your cider audience

Website: http://www.elegastcider.nl/

• CiderCon2021 February 1-4, 2022 - A virtual trade conference for the cider industry hosted by the American Cider Association. Register today!
• New York International Cider Competition - February 21, 2022 4rd Annual New York International Cider Competition for commercial makers. Judges are real buyers making this competition stand apart from all others in cider. Send in your ciders now.

Commercial Makers - Enter the New York International Cider Competition

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Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

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Forager of fruits enjoy the hunt of finding hidden trees and more often than not fully laden trees in plain site. Ben Kunesh's path as a forage has led him to fruits of all natures, including the once famous and now newly rising star known as the Chocolate Pear. Ben Kunesh holding Chocolate Pears The Chocolate Pear has been discussed on two episodes of Cider Chat. Find these must listen to episodes linked below. Up to having this discussion with Ben, I only knew of this tree and its wonderful small pear like fruit as Sorbus Domestica. The fruit ripens into a smooth creamy texture with notes of melon and chocolate.

• Ben's tale of traveling to the Cezch Republic and to the area of Moravia. It is here that he met with Vit Hrdoušek who has research and wrote extensively about the Chocolate Pear.
• The Chocolate Pear Museum known as Oskorušové Muzeum
• And a the scope on the translation of the Czech book on Sorbus Domestica

Follow Ben on Instagram @strom_oskoruse

[caption id="attachment_6810" align="aligncenter" width="300"] Oskorušové Muzeum

• Oskorušové muzeum, 696 62 Tvarožná Lhota, Czechia
  • http://www.tvarozna-lhota.cz/oskoruse-oskorusove-muzeum-a-slavnost-oskorusi/ms-1031/p1=1031 .
• https://zemedelskamuzea.nzm.cz/clenove -site/muzeum-oskerusi

• Cider Chat Episodes featuring the Chocolate Pear with the Arnould Narzain (aka The French Pope of Sorbus Domestica)
  • 219: Sorbs Not Sulfites
  • 220: Can Sorbs Save the World

• CiderCon2021 February 1-4, 2022 - A virtual trade conference for the cider industry hosted by the American Cider Association. Register today!
• New York International Cider Competition - February 21, 2022 4rd Annual New York International Cider Competition for commercial makers. Judges are real buyers making this competition stand apart from all others in cider. Send in your ciders now.

Commercial Makers - Enter the New York International Cider Competition

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.
• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter @ciderchat
• Instagram: @ciderchatciderville
• Cider Chat FaceBook Page
• Cider Chat YouTube

A Wassail is a celebration of the orchards, most typically apple orchards to honor the natural world and pay tribute with hopes of an abundant fruiting season moving forward. A Wassail is also a cheer

• When you hear someone say "Wassail" it means -Be Healthy!
  • The reply is "Drink hail" - To your health!

When does it take place?

Historically a Wassail would be held on the 6th of January or what is known as the Twelfth Night. Or on the 17th of January which is called "Old Twelvey"

Procession to the main Wassail fire

In these modern times a Wassail can take place when it is most appropriate considering the weather and outside temperatures. There is no strict protocols, but rather traditions that when followed harken us all back to our ancestral roots and pagan ways.

Where do Wassails take place?

In the orchard surrounding a large fire, a fire circle and in some places 12 small rings of fire for the 12 apostles or for the twelve signs of the Zodiac.

Indoor Wassails are also doable for those who can't go outside during -6 degree temperatures. Thus, a Wassail can take place at a Senior Center or a Day Care with songs being sung around a plant or small tree.

The end goal is all the same, to sing to the orchard, the apple tree(s), to ward off the apple foes and to harken in better times ahead.

The Old Apple Tree of the Wassail

• Have a fire keeper who will make sure the wood is ready and lit to greet the parade of merry makers
• Set a meeting spot for everyone to gather and then walk to the oldest or largest apple tree. The fire is often very nearby.
• Have "Safe" Torches, flashlights to lead the crowd to the main fire
• Have some hot mulled cider
• Have a Master of the Ceremony or what is known as the "Butler"
• Select a King and Queen
• Have slices of Toasted bread
• Have Cider to drink and to pour a bit on the toast and onto the ground
• Hand out lyrics to the Wassail songs
• The King and Queen lead the group up to the Apple Tree
• Place the toast on the limbs
• Pour cider on the roots of the tree
• Make noise to ward off the evil spirts
• If Morris Dancers are available they would do a dance or two
• Have a taste of two of Wassail - pick an option that best suits your crowd. It can be a hot mulled cider, with or without spices or fortified with brandy, perhaps a wee bit of honey?

A two handled cup or goblet is the classic Wassail cup that would be passed round, but these days any fine drinking cup would do sans the passing around.

• Willie Smiths Cider in Tasmania hosts an annual "Mid Winter Festival" in July
• Campaign for the Revival Of Wassailing (CROW)
• www.nationaltrust.org.uk/petworth-house-and-park/recipes/petworths-traditional-wassail

Mentions in this Chat

072: Lost Apple of the Quabbin |Massachusetts

In A Glass Of Cider

It seemed I was a mite of sedimentThat waited for the bottom to fermentSo I could catch a bubble in ascent.I rode up on one till the bubble burst,And when that left me to sink back reversedI was no worse off than I was at first.I'd catch another bubble if I waited.The thing was to get now and then elated.

Robert Frost

• CiderCon2021 February 1-4, 2022 - A virtual trade conference for the cider industry hosted by the American Cider Association. Register today!
• New York International Cider Competition - February 21, 2022 4rd Annual New York International Cider Competition for commercial makers. Judges are real buyers making this competition stand apart from all others in cider. Send in your ciders now.

Commercial Makers - Enter the New York International Cider Competition

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Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.
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Patrick McCauley grew up in south eastern Michigan and recalls visiting cider mills as a child, enjoying in the fresh pressed apple juice and the cider donuts. Today he is avid cider maker and realtor in the Ann Arbor area a job that allows him to have an eagle eye on backyard orchards. Patrick McCauley

Go to this link to see the October 2021 article by Patrick McCauley on the Washtenaw Cider Mills in the Ann Arbor Observer.

[ Dexter cider mill 10.23.35 Kids drinking ciderkin Dexter Cider Mill October 1955 Williams Cider Mill

In this episode:

• 119 Washtenaw County cider mills between 1841 and the present, of which 8 are still in business todayThe 1888 attempt to ban alcohol in the county (1909 - 102 cider mills)
• Chicago Apple King - David Henning
• The Erie Canal's use as a major transportation route of goods including apples and cider
• Marth Aray Day - Owner of a Cider Mill "that once stood in the middle of the road" was not only a woman but also African American and believed to be one of the few documented Black business owners at that time in the trade of cider. The mill was located at Michigan Avenue in Pittsfield Township. It looked to have a ten year run between 1880, and in 1899. Patrick notes that "the mill made 1500 barrels of cider." Equally notable father Asher Aray, used the farm as a station on the underground railroad in the years before the Civil War.

Benjamin and Martha Day family

Patrick's in depth study appears to be the "tip of the iceberg". He notes that perhaps it is a longer more bountiful story of even more cider mills. And lest not forget that this is only one county in the very active growing state of Michigan.

Contact info for Patrick McCauley to request the full manuscript on the Washtenaw County Cider Mills

• Website: https://patrickmccauley.reinhartrealtors.com/

• CiderCon2021 February 1-4, 2022 - A virtual trade conference for the cider industry hosted by the American Cider Association. Register today!
• New York International Cider Competition - February 21, 2022 4rd Annual New York International Cider Competition for commercial makers. Judges are real buyers making this competition stand apart from all others in cider. Send in your ciders now.

Commercial Makers - Enter the New York International Cider Competition

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

Phil Watson grew up on an old farm with an old cider press that powered a water wheel. When a water wheel turns it produces a lot of force, so his mom back then had the old wheel taken down. That water wheel made a big impression on Phil so years later he built his own water wheel powered cider press on his 200 acre lot where he mills up lumber.

In this episode hear the full backstory of building the water wheel with one oak tree. The 3 story cider house is set up with the top floor designed to receive the apples and the old leaf mulcher now used to grind up the apples.

The second floor is where the press is set up and there is even a bike on that floor that can be used to also power the press.

The bottom floor is where the juice is received in an old milk tank.

Water Wheel - 14 diameter

When the wheel is turning:

20 gallons pre pressing on a rack and cloth press that Phil also built. They can do 4-5 pressings an hour.

Phil's label for his bottles says Snake Cider Company with the logo, "Don't Eat the Apple. Drink the Snake"

• CiderCon2021 February 1-4, 2022 - A virtual trade conference for the cider industry hosted by the American Cider Association. Register today!
• New York International Cider Competition - February 21, 2022 4rd Annual New York International Cider Competition for commercial makers. Judges are real buyers making this competition stand apart from all others in cider. Send in your ciders now.

Commercial Makers - Enter the New York International Cider Competition

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.
• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter @ciderchat
• Instagram: @ciderchatciderville
• Cider Chat FaceBook Page
• Cider Chat YouTube

This song is one part poking fun at ourselves as cidermakers and enthusiasts for all things cider. I began writing this song one night while sitting along on a sailboat in the Santa Cruz Harbor in Santa Cruz California in August of 2021. I was in town taking care of family (my mom) and had a couple hours to myself, so I squirreled away on my brother's boat with the intention to put to song a little ditty that was playing out in my head. I wore head phones so that I wouldn't be cranking the tune and waking the liveaboard sailors around me. Water is my muse, having grown up on a river bank and spent many a night singing with my cousin Jay and friends as we floated down the mighty river.

In a few short days my cousin Jay and I, would go into the Santa Cruz Recording studio and do the final wrap to this new cider song titled Strange Apples.

A holiday tree adorned with Lady Apples - yes they are real Letter given to Ria from Apples, The Nose and the Talking Pommes to celebrate the 300th episode

Jay Straaange Apples

Jay Bitter Sharp

Guitar rift

Jay Straaange Apples

R&J Juicy Ripe

Guitar rift

Bomp bomp bomp ba da da de do dump

Bomp bomp bomp ba da da de do dump

Jay Who wants a tannin bomb?

Ria I want a tannin bomb?

Jay Who wants to pull them down?

Ria I'm gonna pull them down.

Ria Hay, Hay Hay Apples

R&J Bitter Sweet

Jay Straaange Apples

R&J Hanging high

Drop down

Jay Got those Straaange Apples

R&J Forget the pie

Drop down

Jay Straaange Apples

R&J Squeeze them tight

Jay Got them…. (R&J) Straaange Apples, Straaange Apples

Yes they're Straaange Apples

R&J Make them Pop!

Rift

Pop Pop Pop badada do do dop

Pop Pop Pop badada do do dop

Ria Who wants a tannin bomb?

Jay I want a tannin bomb?

Ria Who wants to pull them down?

Jay I'm gonna pull them down.

Jay Hay Hay Hay Apples

R&J Come and see

R&J Plenty strange apples

R&J For you and me

R&J Straaange Apples, Straaange Apples, Straaaaange Apples

R&J Make them Pop!

Pop Pop Pop badada do do dop

Pop Pop Pop badada do do dop

High Pop Pop Pop badada do do dop

Pop Pop Pop - PopPopPopPop

Ria & Jay Celebrating the recording of Strange Apples

50 episode from #251 - 300 introduced cidermakers from Germany and throughout North America. Hear their voices and hello on this episode 300.

For historical notes - let us never forget that Season 6 and 5 were completed during a world wide pandemic.

Find all archived episodes for Season 6 and past season at https://ciderchat.com/podcast

Hudson Valley Farmhouse Cider founder Elizabeth Ryan tells the back story of key legislation that reduce taxes for US cidermakers in the 1990's. Though she may consider herself to be mentored by others, Elizabeth and her fellow cohorts of the day were giants before their time.

[caption id="attachment_6714" align="aligncenter" width="200"] Elizabeth Ryan[/caption]

Hear the story of what it looked like in the wee hours of day at the House Way's and Mean Committee when the legislation passed. How then Democratic Representative Charles B. Rangel made a move to get the Republicans on board. Yes, political theater at its best.

• Judith and Terry Maloney - West County Cider | MA
• Steve Wood - Farnum Hill | NH
• Jerry House - Ace Cider | CA
• BF Clyde Cider Mill | CT
• Joseph Cerniglia - Wood Chuck | VT
• North America Cidermaking Association
• Bulmer's Cider | UK

• CiderCon2021 February 1-4, 2022 - A virtual trade conference for the cider industry hosted by the American Cider Association
• New York International Cider Competition - February 21, 2022 4rd Annual New York International Cider Competition for commercial makers. Judges are real buyers making this competition stand apart from all others in cider. Send in your ciders now.

• 108 The Alcohol Professor chats Cider Competitions & Judging
• 162: S. Martinelli & Co. | 150 Years of Cider
• Episode 169: History of Alcohol Law | Marc Sorini
• 287: Elizabeth Ryan Hudson Valley Farmhouse Cider, NY

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.
• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter @ciderchat
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Gallette dinners have been showcased at Scott Farm in Dummerston Vermont on Wednesday throughout 2021. Gallettes are a French cuisine where a batter is swirled around a flat cylindrical plate to form a round, flat, flexible bread. A gallette can be savory and stuffed with main course items such as cheese, mushroom and meat or savory. A savory gallette is filled with sweets like chocolate and or fruits.

Making gallettes in quantity for the dinner ahead

Gallettes can be found throughout France in cities like Paris and throughout the cider regions of Normandy and Brittany.

Scott Farm General Manager Simon Renault hails from Brittany and introduce Gallettes to the farm. Simon also began making cider, keeved cider which is a typical cidermaking technique used in both France and the UK. In 2021, he produced the first ever keeved cider at Scott Farm and plans to ramp up production in 2022 with a bit of help from Eden Cider.

Simon Renault

Listen to episode 26 with Neil Worley who goes into detail on how to keeve a cider

Eleanor Leger of Eden Cider was on hand pouring a flight of special reserve ciders that were both sparkling and her famous Ice Ciders.

Eleanor Leger

• Simon's Keeved Cider from Scott Farm
• Eden Ciders:
  • Semi Dry Champagne method 2014 harvest
  • Stormy Sparkling Cider
  • Northern Spy Ice Cider - Barrel aged
  • 2012 Heirloom Blend Ice Cider

• Scott Farm | website: https://www.scottfarmvermont.com/
• Eden Specialty Cider | website https://www.edenciders.com/

Mentions in this Chat

• CiderCon2022 - sign up today for the Richmond, Virginia cider conference
• Audio clips from Season 5 of Cider Chat

  • 242: Selecting Cider

    • Episode 236 - 241 are Part 1-6 of the Cidermaking Series
  • 248: New England Quince Taste Test 2020
  • 249: Old School Cidermaking for Modern Times
• Oliver's Cider and Perry | Hereford UK

• Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

  Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

  • Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.
  • Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
  • Twitter @ciderchat
  • Instagram: @ciderchatciderville
  • Cider Chat FaceBook Page
  • Cider Chat YouTube