Construction Brothers

Terry Dussault is President of Yellowknife Consulting Services in Huntington Beach, California. His focus is conducting incident investigations and promoting safety programs. Many of the projects that require Terry’s attention involve waste-cleanup and pollution abatement.

These sites often contain lots of piping and pumps, which means lots of ways workers can get hurt. (Tyler asks if scuba gear is ever involved. The answer is no, but here’s the kind of diving Tyler was referring to.)

Tyler asks Terry to talk through an average day, and Terry said that a whole lot of it is about paperwork. There’s a massive amount of documentation. You need to know the protocols. Eddie asks for some of the good things in the world of safety recently. Terry recalls how little safety gear was offered or used when he started working in the field. It was pretty much just steel-toe boots–no helmets, no vests.

Terry discusses the incredible importance of traceability when it comes to safety standards. It’s essential that an employer be able to provide documentation verifying that appropriate steps have been taken to keep the workplace safe. This helps in litigation and in providing employees with peace of mind. We explore the generational differences in perceptions of safety regulations. Terry says many veteran workers brush aside safety concerns because they’ve never had significant accidents or seen coworkers get hurt.

He shares he confronted an older worker who had chosen to ignore the company glove policy. Terry pointed out to the guy that all of the incoming employees who train under him will likely follow his example. The Book of Gore: This is the title Terry’s brother, a paramedic, gave to the photo album he assembled to document the terrible things that can happen. He refers to this book when attempting to encourage the use of gloves and other safety equipment.

erry says that the root cause of unsafe work conditions is when the shortcutting of procedures is positively reinforced or tolerated.

On the topic of gloves, Tyler asks about how Terry has seen people deal with the increased presence of touchscreen-based technology on the worksite. Terry talks about reasonable exceptions that need to be made for people in specific situations. We discuss balance and practicality. Tyler mentions that excessive protocols can lead employees to want to stick it to the man. Terry talks about an oil company that required two layers of gloves. At first this struck him as ridiculous, but then he came to understand that they were dealing with contaminants that can be absorbed through the skin. If his skin had gotten wet, he’d have been absorbing serious toxins.

Tyler asks Terry what safety protocols he’d like to see implemented. Terry says that it’s not so much which protocols should be added as it is about how management should get involved. He wants to see leaders becoming more active in supporting employees in their efforts to remain safe.

Terry tells a story about a nightmare cleanup where a former owner had allowed various companies to fill a tank with a variety of chemicals. Terry had to lead a crew through the process of solidifying the liquid. That meant putting a few of his guys in direct contact with the chemicals. An executive in the company overseeing the project asked when they were going to be able to scale down the PPE budget, and Terry had to be really blunt with him.

Eddie discusses whether we create a Chicken Little dynamic when we have excessive regulations like requiring two people to move a 16’ 2x4. This leads to another messy cleanup story that shows the complexity of assigning liability in multi-million-dollar projects. He talks about the fact that there are often two versions of incident reports after incidents like this one. Tyler asks Terry to share some wisdom with young people entering the industry. Here’s what he shares:

• Try to become the best you can be, but also think about integrating a level of safety into your practice. Learn it all.
• It’s okay if you don’t know something. Ask.

Terry’s Megaphone Message: If you’re a worker and you see something that doesn’t feel right, stop and ask. You don’t have to proceed. Have some personal policies regarding safety. Don’t be afraid to speak up.

Find Terry Online: LinkedIN - Yellowknife Consulting Services Check out the partners that make our show possible. Find Us Online: BrosPodcast.com - LinkedIn - Youtube - Instagram - Facebook - TikTok - Eddie's LinkedIn - Tyler's LinkedIn If you enjoy the podcast, please rate us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to us! Thanks for listening!

Well. It’s debatable.  What is the best day for project deadlines? Eddie thinks it’s Tuesday. For a long time, he thought it should be Friday, which makes sense in your head. Unfortunately, the world doesn’t usually operate in accordance with the vision in your head. Monday (according to Eddie’s work rhythm) is a very productive day, but it’s also a day that is overweighted with managerial duties.  On Tuesdays, almost everyone is still around, in contrast to a Friday afternoon. Tuesday leaves time for contingency.  So, there you go. If you have the opportunity to pick a deadline for your project, make it a Tuesday. Find Us Online: BrosPodcast.com - LinkedIn - Youtube - Instagram - Facebook - Eddie's LinkedIn - Tyler's LinkedIn If you enjoy the podcast, please rate us on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to us! Thanks for listening! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Tom Yeshurun joins us today from San Francisco. Tom is Founder and CEO of Civ Robotics, a company that automates construction layout. Their robots drive themselves around a site and locate points by paint or laser so they can be marked by their human operators. Tom shares the names of a few of the robots they currently have operating: Betty, Ugly, and Joey… No #5 yet. Regardless of the name, each robot is a four-wheel drive unit customized for specific terrain. Several years ago, Tom was a contractor who hired surveying teams. As he talked to these teams, he learned about the limitations they experienced with some of the early survey drones. Within a few years, Tom had founded Civ Robotics and led a team in development of a drone that could drive stakes with QR codes linked to relevant information about that spot on the worksite. As they sought to generate interest in their drone, they discovered that many workers were intimidated by the drone in one way or another. After hearing this multiple times, Tom and his crew set about building a ground-based unit. They found that 8 of 10 contractors preferred the ground-based unit over the drone. Much of Tim’s team struggled with this change of direction, but the bold, painful pivot paid off. Three years later Civ Robotics has more than 40 machines in the field. Tyler asks Tim to talk through the mechanical functionality of the robots. Tim explains that the unit paints a spot or uses a laser to mark a spot where a worker can then drive a stake. Two people working with the robot can do the work of eight people with handheld equipment. Traditional two-person team places somewhere between 200 and 400 points a day, depending on the terrain challenges. With the Civ Robotics machine, one person following the machine can place anywhere from 700 to 3000 points a day depending on the accuracy needed. Accuracy is obviously a concern. The base model can mark spots within two inches, and the high-precision model can mark within 8mm, using a laser on a robotic arm. The unit then audibly tells the field crew worker which marker to place–red, blue, black, and yellow. Due to the addition of this vocalizing feature, some contractors are opting to have just a single human worker team up with the robot. Some job sites use multiple vehicles, most often two. That means that 1400 marks can be placed within an 8-hour shift, which requires a battery hot-swap at lunch time. (Everyone wants a lunch break.) Eddie shifts our attention forward to discuss what Tom has in mind next. Today most of Civ Robotics’ work involves horizontal work. Tom discusses possible expansion, including partnerships with Trimble, but he said that Civ Robotics’ focus for the moment is on outdoor, rough-terrain applications. Tyler talks about the promising job prospects for robotics operators. Tom confirms that the learning curve with their robot is generous enough that people can easily learn to operate it without any special training from the company. Eddie asks about licensing issues. Tom explains that you don’t have to be a licensed surveyor to do layout in most states. Licensing is required to measure the land and place control points, but not to mark where to build. He also mentions that on-the-ground robots capture more-detailed topographic data than drones do because vegetation won’t throw them off. We explore what “as-built” means in Tom’s world. He explains that it refers to measurements of what was actually built. It often relates to topographical elements. Different entities have different requirements for how this data is processed. Tom explains that the “topo” feature can toggle off and on to gather elevation data. This data can then be gathered at the same time as the X-Y data, resulting in substantial time savings. Tom advises people to evaluate new equipment before buying. He’s seen companies overcommit to specific technologies and waste loads of money. He shares about the various specialized robots he’d like to build or buy. (Here’s the luggage-carrying one Tyler mentioned.) Tom’s Megaphone Message: Construction automation is coming whether you want it or not. It’s going to help customers build buildings more efficiently and with greater precision. It will empower us to reach our goals as an industry. If you don’t adopt it, you’re going to fall behind. We’re here to build America. It needs to be a group effort. We need to have multiple technologies to meet those goals. Find Tom Online: LinkedIN - Civ Robotics Check out the partners that make the show possible. Find Us Online: BrosPodcast.com - LinkedIn - Youtube - Instagram - Facebook - TikTok - Eddie's LinkedIn - Tyler's LinkedIn If you enjoy the podcast, please rate us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to us! Thanks for listening!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Even if you’ve never been in the military or marched with a band, you’ve heard the pace-setting rhythm of a drum beat or the chanting troops.  Projects have a rhythm too. Each project has a unique feel. If you want to be a productive contributor to a project, you need to sense that cadence.  Know when to enter with your information–when to bring your concern to the table. You can’t just throw it out there when it comes to your mind.  Tyler shares a softball analogy: You’re at third base when the ball comes at you. The ball hits your mitt and you grab it with your throwing hand. You pause before throwing to let your eyes and muscles calibrate before you send it.  Those who fail to do this will often send the ball into the dugout or over the first baseman’s head.  Take a beat.  Ponder the context, the recipients, and the implications of your words or actions.  Then act.   Again: Slow is smooth. Smooth is fast.  Find Us Online: BrosPodcast.com - LinkedIn - Youtube - Instagram - Facebook - TikTok - Eddie's LinkedIn - Tyler's LinkedIn If you enjoy the podcast, please rate us on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to us! Thanks for listening!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Elon and an increasingly-ripped Zuckerberg in a cage match. And Threads. That’s where we start today’s conversation. But then we move on.    Today we're talking to Jacob D'Albora. Jacob is Director of Digital Building Operations at VIATechnik, LLC. His job is to serve as an owner’s representative in regard to digital plans and related VDC data.   Jacob says that he has seen owners who had to recreate the entire digital presence of their projects and repopulate databases because they don’t receive the assets produced by their designers and contractors. Yes, he means actually retyping room names and countless other details. Ridiculous redundancy.    Eddie recounts his own realizations about the lack of information-sharing among parties involved on a project, and Jacob shares about Danielle O’Connell’s team of “dumpster divers” who scours all project documentation toward the end of a project in order to assemble a cohesive data package.    We discuss how an owner’s interests differ from various other parties in regard to documentation. The owner will spend years–hopefully decades–engaging with various aspects of the building. Jacob’s team focuses on the costs of ownership over those decades and helps owners plan for smooth, efficient management.   The pace of construction is obviously a major concern for owners, so Jacob helps owners find the balance between construction pace and costs, including early-completion incentives. He says that most owners are willing to spend a bit more money if they know they can accelerate a project. This allows them to get the paying tenants into the space sooner.    We discuss the asset registries that Jacob helps owners create. These registries include shop drawings, warranties, and owner’s manuals. He explains to owners that using BIM will smooth the process of creating the “digital twin” they need.    Jacob explains how he dove deep into the facility-management realm, joining IFMA and doing everything he could to understand this world. He quickly learned that the best way to make building models usable for owners was to make it as intuitive as possible. Toward this goal, his company developed the Voyager digital twin platform.    We address the pace of BIM’s acceptance in the industry, including the effect of the COVID pandemic. Jacob explains that many companies had no idea how many anterooms they had and how these rooms played into the efficient, creative use of their facilities. This situation made it glaringly clear that digital models could be incredibly helpful.    Jacob connects digital plans to risk mitigation, using asbestos-removal as an example of something that could have been handled much more effectively if digital models had been universally available.   Tyler asks Jacob to predict some changes he expects to see in the next few years. Jacob said that owners are beginning to dictate which digital platforms general contractors should use on their projects.    Jacob shares some tactfully phrased thoughts about how inefficiently architects’ 2D drawings operate in a world of VDC and BIM. His teams have helped owners and contractors address this inefficiency.    Tyler asks Jacob to estimate the file sizes of average Tekla models. His estimate of 200-300MB is right on. These files are not that large. There’s room for more helpful detail.   Eddie explains that he’s noticed a decrease in recent years of the need for him to explain what it means when he says he works in BIM. We discuss how this is a promising indicator of the value owners are finally placing on thoughtful design and component integration.    We ask Jacob to discuss tensions that arise with design-assist. He says that the boundaries between contributing parties are still pretty fluid, with some people more willing than others to be flexible in defining scope.    Jacob’s Megaphone Message:  BIM has more value than we understand right now. We’ve seen other industries take data and do something big. There’s so much more that can be done within our industry. It’s just a matter of finding the right people at the beginning of a project to be your partners.   Find Jacob Online: LinkedIN - ViaTechnik   Find Us Online: BrosPodcast.com - LinkedIn - Youtube - Instagram - Facebook - TikTok - Eddie's LinkedIn - Tyler's LinkedIn If you enjoy the podcast, please rate us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to us! Thanks for listening!  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Eddie’s been thinking about our episode with Patrick Fernbach. Specifically, he’s thinking about the discussion we had about small changes.  Sometimes you get several steps into a project and discover that things just aren’t looking right.  Tyler recalls an experience that he encountered pretty regularly when he was still doing steel detailing. Someone would call to explain that one tiny thing needed to change. Maybe it was the size of a bolt or a plate.  The problem? That change meant that something else needed to change. Which meant that two other things needed to change.  On and on went the ripple effect.  How do we avoid this? Do your best to make sure that you’ve checked through things before considering them finished. Batch things wisely. Make sure it won’t need to be changed down the road.  Understand that changes involve risk–monetary risk.  Mitigate your risk by managing changes well. Find Us Online: BrosPodcast.com - LinkedIn - Youtube - Instagram - Facebook - Eddie's LinkedIn - Tyler's LinkedIn If you enjoy the podcast, please rate us on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to us! Thanks for listening!  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

We love interviewing authors, and today we have a great one. Henry Nutt III started in the industry when he was 19 years old. He worked as general superintendent for 34 years. Henry has been with Southland Industry for 15 years, where he currently works as Pre-construction Executive.  All of this experience makes him eminently qualified to share some advice about building strong teams.  Henry spends a lot of time talking to students about preparing for careers. As he shared his experience, he discovered that common sense isn’t necessarily common. This is why he decided to collect his insights in a book titled Seven Principles: Creating Your Success in the Construction Industry (publisher’s site, Amazon). Here are Henry’s seven principles:

1. Start where you are
2. Get a mentor
3. Refuse to be a victim
4. Work hard
5. Love what you do
6. Learn how to follow
7. Know the difference between being a liability and an asset

Tyler asks Henry to expand particularly on #7. Henry says it's about exercising self-awareness. He discusses the importance of looking thoughtfully at the dynamics of the whole team and asking if you’re being given more responsibilities or being excused early. If you find that you’re not being viewed as an asset, it’s time to ask what you can do differently.  Eddie then shifts things toward #3–and, of course, baseball. Henry says that it’s essential to acknowledge the circumstances that might pose serious challenges for you but then to shift your attention to overcoming and adjusting in whatever ways you can. Break the patterns. Shift the narrative.  Mentors (#2) can help you make these changes. Invite insight that can accelerate your journey toward greater competence. Acknowledge that you’re an empty cup, and invite wise people to fill you with knowledge. We discuss how principle #4 is absolutely essential. If you have the right mindset about hard work and can align your practices with that mindset, your actions will speak volumes. Prove your an asset (back to #7). Tyler asks Henry to discuss how he got into construction. He explains that his dad, a sheet metal worker, encouraged him to take a skills/aptitude test. A short time later, Henry received a call that said a company was ready to hire him right away.  The road was not always smooth. Henry discusses the challenges and doubts that he faced in the early years. Now, though, he is tremendously thankful that mentors and encouragers along the way kept him on the road. Eventually he found himself in a position where he could influence the culture of a work crew.  Here are a few more highlights from this episode:

• “Bring the best version of yourself.”
• “Admit that you don’t know what you don’t know.”
• “When recognized that I was able to affect the people, it became a labor of love.”

Henry’s Megaphone Message: This industry has allowed bad behavior to go on forever, resulting in the loss of many good people. That’s changing. Many people are trying to make this industry about people. We want you to join us. Bring your talents and gifts to the table. Show up. Work hard every day. Recognize what you don’t know so you can grow and learn every day.   Find Henry Online: LinkedIN - His book at Amazon - His book at KP Publishing   Find Us Online: BrosPodcast.com - LinkedIn - Youtube - Instagram - Facebook - Eddie's LinkedIn - Tyler's LinkedIn If you enjoy the podcast, please rate us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to us! Thanks for listening!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You know what we have to say about your positivity?  NO! Actually, today we’re talking about how this word can be a way to be positive.  Eddie explains that your nos are more positive than your yeses.  Both yeses and nos come in seasons. Tyler explains that he and the family are headed into a season of nos.  We discuss the feelings that come along with a good, solid no. Although there might be some intimidation and unease, Tyler said the dominant feeling for him is usually relief.  The unwillingness to say no can lead to grudgingly spoken yeses, which aren’t good for anyone. Be a good picker. Monitor your opportunities. Think them through. Don’t lock yourself in because of your people-pleasing tendencies.  Find Us Online: BrosPodcast.com - LinkedIn - Youtube - Instagram - Facebook - Eddie's LinkedIn - Tyler's LinkedIn If you enjoy the podcast, please rate us on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to us! Thanks for listening!  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

We open today with a discussion about the latest epidemic in the US. Yes, we’re talking about the epidemic of pickleball-related injuries. Here’s the story in Bloomberg.   Then we move on to a topic that John Roach brought to Eddie’s attention recently. It’s all about architects and the pricing of their services.    It all goes back to the Sherman Anti-trust Act, which was enacted in 1890 to address the problem of monopolies.    In the 1860s, Richard Morris Hunt sued a client who failed to pay his 5% fee. In doing so, he unknowingly set 5% as the industry standard for architect fees.   By the 1950s, the AIA had formalized a somewhat complicated fee structure for various architectural services.      In the late 1960s, concerns arose that this fee structure was a form of price fixing. The Justice Department investigated and found that it did, indeed, violate the Sherman Anti-trust Act. In 1972, they issued a “consent decree,” which amounted to a settlement that outlined how the AIA could and could not behave going forward. (If you’d like to geek out on details, go here.).    Here’s the 2022 AIA compliance guide.    After reviewing this history, we discuss the complications of defining the scope of an architect’s work and getting clarity on that when it comes to the architect’s fees. It can become a race to the bottom. These complications have affected the way that contractors relate to owners and designers.    We compare these patterns to the patterns within fees for engineering services.    The question all of this leads to is this: “How do we argue for spending more money on design when it’s hard to know what I’m buying?”   We discuss the challenge of bank loans based on permit designs, as well as owners who don’t know how complicated the design process is.    Tyler really wants a Ford Raptor… What does that have to do with architecture fees? Well, when you buy a truck, you know what options you’re paying for and how they affect the price. Eddie explains that he’d like to see that kind of manufacturing mindset influence the designing and bidding process in construction.    We ponder the F1 price cap as an analogy for how things could play out if people were to spend more money on design.   Our Megaphone Message: Define value. Then buy value. Buy more design. Work with your lender and explain that this project can be much more successful if more money is invested in design. Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast.   Find Us Online: BrosPodcast.com - LinkedIn - Youtube - Instagram - Facebook - Eddie's LinkedIn - Tyler's LinkedIn If you enjoy the podcast, please rate us on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to us! Thanks for listening!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.