What does it cost to pastor faithfully in a city shaped by both beauty and deep injustice? Corey Widmer has spent twenty years navigating race, politics, and the gospel in Richmond, Virginia.

"We're living in an extraordinary moral and spiritual crisis that we will either look back and say the American church was an accomplice, or the American church was a prophet."

In this episode with Mark Labberton, Widmer reflects on bridging divided communities and the spiritual practices that can sustain pastors as they serve their congregations and communities. Together they discuss pressures facing pastors in a polarized era, the prophet-priest-king calling, Richmond's racial history, pastoral burnout, John Stott's legacy, and the contemplative life.

Episode Highlights

• "We're living in an extraordinary moral and spiritual crisis that we will either look back and say the American church was an accomplice, or the American church was a prophet."
• "No political party could possibly align with the ethic of the radical upside down kingdom of Jesus."
• "Bridges are stretched between two points and bear tremendous weight."
• "At the heart of the universe is not power. At the heart of the universe is communion, is love."
• "You know when you're really not a prophet is when after you say the hard word, you leave the room and say, I hope they still like me."

About Corey Widmer

Corey Widmer is senior pastor of Third Church, a Presbyterian congregation in Richmond, Virginia. Corey has served as a pastor in Richmond for over twenty years, both at Third Church and at East End Fellowship, a multi-racial neighbourhood congregation. Corey has an MDiv from Princeton Theological Seminary and a PhD in theology and missiology from the Free University of Amsterdam. He is married to Sarah, a public health nurse, and they have four daughters.

Helpful Links and Resources

Corey Widmer on Substack: https://coreywidmer.substack.com

Third Church, Richmond: https://www.thirdrva.org

Corey Widmer on X: https://x.com/coreywidmer

For Richmond Immigration Statement (full text): https://www.forrichmond.org/recent-news-blog/immigration

Richmond Faith Leaders on Immigration (Virginia Public Media): VPM News

James Davison Hunter, Democracy and Solidarity (Yale, 2024): https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300284898/democracy-and-solidarity/

David Whyte, Crossing the Unknown Sea: https://davidwhyte.com/store/book/crossing-the-unknown-sea/

Lausanne Covenant: https://lausanne.org/about/the-lausanne-covenant

John Perkins, Let Justice Roll Down: https://ccda.org/product/let-justice-roll-down/

Barna, State of Pastors: https://www.barna.com/trends/pastoral-flourishing/

Show Notes

• Introducing Corey Widmer—lead pastor, Third Church, Richmond
• Describing the moment: fraught, volatile
• "Every pastor in every time has a similar calling—to shepherd the people of God under the supremacy of Jesus's lordship"
• Christian message used in ways antithetical to Jesus
• "Where am I?"—the pastor's constant calibration
• John Stott's bridge-building model
• Richmond: Patrick Henry, slave markets, Confederate capital
• John Perkins' call to relocation and reconciliation
• Thirteen years co-pastoring multiracial church plant
• "Bridges are stretched between two points and bear tremendous weight"
• Transition to lead pastor of suburban congregation
• Emotional containment—absorbing conflict
• George Floyd, Confederate monuments, Richmond reckoning
• Stott and Lausanne Covenant: justice at center of mission
• "No political party could possibly align with the radical upside down kingdom of Jesus"
• Lent and the cruciform way vs. pursuit of power
• Hunter's Democracy and Solidarity: erosion of common moral center
• "The American church was an accomplice, or a prophet"
• Prophet, priest, king—framework for preaching
• Pastoral letters, teaching classes, Deuteronomy on immigration
• Richmond clergy coalition on immigrant dignity
• Pastoral burnout, isolation, friendship crisis
• David Whyte: "The antidote to exhaustion is wholeheartedness"
• Centering prayer and contemplative life
• "You're not a prophet when you leave the room and say, I hope they still like me"

#PastoralMinistry #ChurchLeadership #RacialReconciliation #ChristianNationalism #PastorBurnout #CruciformLife #RichmondVA #JohnStott #LausanneCovenant

Production Credits

Conversing is produced and distributed in partnership with Comment magazine and Fuller Seminary.