Copywriters Podcast

How does copywriting apply to a sales funnel? David Allan joins us to break it down.

We start with the 5,000-foot view by exploring what funnels are and how they work.

Then, David goes over some simple rules to follow when building your sales funnels.

We cover some of the most common mistakes people make when crafting their sales funnels.

And David shares some of his favorite resources for people to learn more.

If you're trying to build out a full-fledged marketing machine for your business, this is the episode for you. Download it now.


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When I first started copywriting, I had a real disadvantage. I had been a journalist, and the underlying belief -- at the time -- was that people are rational: You simply give them the facts, for and against, and they will make a reasoned decision. So when I started to see promotions that were working based on emotional appeals that seemed foreign and bizarre to me, I didn't understand. It took a while.

But eventually, I came to realize what every successful copywriter realizes: that people are motivated by forces that had nothing to do with what I had learned in school, or on the job as a working journalist. One way I came to make sense of all of this was by looking at what's known as "the Seven Deadly Sins." That is -- all of these things you were NOT supposed to do and feel, were, in fact, what motivated large numbers of people to act and to buy. That's what we'll be talking about today.

Copy is powerful. You're responsible for how you use what you hear on this podcast. Most of the time, common sense is all you need. But if you make extreme claims… and/or if you're writing copy for offers in highly regulated industries like health, finance, and business opportunity… you may want to get a legal review after you write and before you start using your copy. My larger clients do this all the time.

If you are deeply religious or highly idealistic, I want to make one thing very clear: The Seven Deadly Sins we'll be talking about today are presented as obstacles to overcome. When I present this information, I'm not advocating for humans to be this way. I'm acknowledging that no human alive today has been perfected, to the best of my knowledge. This is about what I have observed... what actually happens, what motivates markets in the real world, where humans are mostly NOT rational.

definition from Wik: intense longing (more than just sex)

Think about collectors. (My guitar story)

definition from Wik: overindulgence, overconsumption

It's certainly food.

But there are people who can't get enough of anything. Think of all the wonderful wine clubs. Endless bottles of fine wines.

definition from Wik: artificial, rapacious desire and pursuit of material possessions

Certainly luxury items. Nobody "needs" them. Why do they want them? You could say greed.

Really, the first three are all about untrammeled desire. Most people have a hard time controlling all their desires, and if you can find a way to tap into a desire, it will make your copy stronger.

definition from Wik: physical laziness - unwillingness to exert

Even people who are hard-working are lazy at some times.

"The Lazy Man's Way To Riches"

Like with all of these, don't CALL your prospect lazy. Simply by contrasting the hard work required for other solutions and how much easier your solution is -- you'll make your point, and that can help you make your sale.

definition from Wik: uncontrolled feelings of rage

People are REALLY angry these days.

If you can show that you share their rage AND tie your offer to a solution out of that rage, it's a very powerful way to make a sale.

definition from Wik: insatiable desire, jealousy

This is my favorite - I think envy is fear of loss brought smack-dab into the present.

Fear of competitors getting ahead of you.

"keeping up with the Joneses"

corrupt selfishness - putting one's own desires and urges, wants, and whims ahead of the welfare of other people

Well, there's another way to look at pride. Being proud of yourself. Being proud of your kids. Being proud of your team.

Old headline: "Build a Body You Can Be Proud Of"

Summary

Lust, Gluttony, Greed, Sloth, Wrath, Envy, Pride. These won't do all the work for you, but they will point you in a good direction.


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1 Bob story

"Like my family's kitchen."

My experience was a little different - Jimmy Carter, Gerald Ford. I knew how to ask questions - but still hadn't learned how to ask engaging questions that helped people to open up. That's what I've spent the last 40 years learning, and I'll share what I can today with you.

0.1 Warning

Copy is powerful. You’re responsible for how you use what you hear on this podcast. Most of the time, common sense is all you need. But if you make extreme claims… and/or if you’re writing copy for offers in highly regulated industries like health, finance, and business opportunity… you may want to get a legal review after you write and before you start using your copy. My larger clients do this all the time.

2 What interviewing is

It's not an interrogation

It's a conversation

starts with building rapport

Stan Russell - Jerry Richardson, The Magic of Rapport

http://a.co/e3JqwHo

Comes from experience, common sense, skills training, clarity of your purpose of the interview -- and, research ahead of time.

"It's all part of the job-one must be prepared to be a host, to share food, to entertain with stories, to basically do anything and everything to make the subject feel comfortable, to put them at ease, so that when you turn on that tape recorder and begin asking questions they feel like they're talking to a friend. It's not always easy to be such a chameleon, but that is what a good in­terviewer must be."

From a book I'll mention later.

3 Why interviewing is important

There's stuff you need to know

You can't find out all of it from book/internet research alone.

So you need to talk to people.

And people are glad to talk to you, almost all of the time, if you can convey to them that you are truly interested in what they have to say.

That's where interviewing comes in.

4 -- 3 tips - what to do

1. Prepare. Find out all you can before the interview. Not to show off your knowledge. More to avoid annoying the person you're interviewing by showing a lack of respect for their time, asking a question you could easily have found the answer to, yourself.

2. Listen. Strive to understand what the person is saying. Don't be in a rush. Respect their time, but give them time to answer.

3. Be ready for the interview to go in a different direction than you had planned. Sometimes you'll get gems from tangents!

5 - 3 tips - what not to do

1. Avoid the urge to show how clever you are. I learned this the hard way, starting on the South Lawn of the White House in 1976. The person you're interviewing appreciates intelligence, but they may resent your efforts to one-up them. Be humble.

2. Don't be like an interrogator in a detective show on TV. Harsh yes/no questions leave people cold and defensive. You want to do the opposite -- make them comfortable so they open up.

3. Don't be in a rush. Respect the time limits you've agreed to, but be as relaxed and focused as you can be. One of the great interviewing skills is to make the person you're talking to feel like they are the most important person in the world!

6 Summary and book rec

Prepare; make it a conversation where the person you're interviewing does most of the talking. You can tell a little about yourself to disclose who you are as a person, and as the interviewer doing this job -- but keep it short. Develop and maintain trust. Take really good notes or better yet, record with permission.

Book recommendation: The Art of the Interview, by Lawrence Grobel. One of the great journalistic interviewers of our time. This gives you a lot more than you need to know for what you'll be doing -- unless you'll be interviewing celebrities for articles in major magazines -- but you can glean tips and techniques from one of the greats. He also taught a class on this subject at UCLA, his alma mater. He really does know how to teach through storytelling!

http://a.co/iLgeYPC


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I remember when I was a kid, I asked my dad about the cigarettes he was smoking.

Very sarcastically, he repeated words from a commercial: "For the best combination of filter and good taste, Kent satisfies best!"

I smiled, but he could tell I didn't get his little joke.

Then he said, "Seriously, David - it's because Kent has this Micronite filter. It filters out the harsher parts of the smoke."

Dad, being a nuclear physicist, really bought into Kent's so-called "logical" Unique Selling Proposition. He told me about the Micronite filter like it was established scientific fact.

But of course, it was just a USP dreamed up by some ad agency.

Now… these days the old ads for cigarettes are considered evil. And though evil they may have been, they were definitely effective.

Having a good USP for each brand was definitely a big part of their success.

So the question arises: Can you use a USP to sell healthy products? Good products? Products that improve people's lives?

And here's the answer:

Not only you can, but you should.

What's more, these days, very often you have to use a USP if you want to half a chance of selling anything.

And that's where the problem comes in. How do you create it?

That's what we'll talk about today. In fact, I've got a shortcut method for you.

But first…

Copy is powerful. You're responsible for how you use what you hear on this podcast. Most of the time, common sense is all you need. But if you make extreme claims… and/or if you're writing copy for offers in highly regulated industries like health, finance, and business opportunity… you may want to get a legal review after you write and before you start using your copy. My larger clients do this all the time.

• What it is

• You're always competing

• Answers (sometimes hidden) question: "Why should I buy from YOU?"

• Big mistake people make - they write USP's from their own / the business's point of view

• Best USPs should state or imply a clear benefit to the CUSTOMER

• Two Steps

• First step: Talent Stack

• Term originated by Scott Adams, explained in two books

• How I used the talent stack for my USP

• Use your talent stack by making a list, and put together a combination that sets you apart

• Second step: Make a list of common benefits, or "should-be" benefits

• Through research, find out what people are disappointed or outright pissed off about among others in the field – WHERE YOU CAN HONEST PROCLAIM THE OPPOSITE

• Same idea as second half of process for a copywriter

• You need to do research… on your own product, and on customer views of competition

• Then, an analysis: What's the one most important thing people are complaining about, that you can offer the opposite of

• Once you have the concept, come up with words that convey it in a captivating and memorable way

• You should be doing this kind of research anyway

• So you can piggyback on what you're already doing

• A good USP can make half the sale for you all by itself.

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Have you ever see a musician who's like this unimpressive guy, sort of could fade into the background at the drop of a pin.

Then he picks up an instrument, and he's like in a different universe.

What happened?

He'd tell you, "I got in the pocket" or "I slipped into the groove."

Another way to say that is, "I got into flow."

What's what we'll talk about today.

Advisory

Copy is powerful. You're responsible for how you use what you hear on this podcast. Most of the time, common sense is all you need. But if you make extreme claims… and/or if you're writing copy for offers in highly regulated industries like health, finance, and business opportunity… you may want to get a legal review after you write and before you start using your copy. My larger clients do this all the time.

• Ease of writing

• Non-stop

• Low stress

• Easy access to creativity

• Could even feel like a rush - dopamine drop

• The writing's smoother, it's easier to read

• When you're in flow and you're writing - your writing is more likely to put the reader in a flow state

• A reader in flow state has turned critical thinking off. That person is more likely to be able to make a good decision about buying.

• When you're in flow, access to your imagination is better. Words come easier. Metaphors come easier. Creative selling ideas (that work) come easier.

• Flow helps you stay in a state of momentum and build up greater momentum. That means you'll get done writing sooner!

• Not enough knowledge loaded up

• Not enough experience loaded up (Mental Representations - Ericcson)

• Premature Perfectionation

• If you hate what you're writing. Sorry, can't help you there

• Do more study and research, especially on the current project

• Write a few more sales letters. You need to have those Mental Representations.

• Put off your Perfectionation until you've finished a full draft.

• See if you can get out of "hurry up and wait" deadline situations. Give yourself time to ponder.

• Understand flow comes best when you're in a creative space, where you're not feeling pressure, there's nothing on your mind, you're open. Not task-oriented space.

• Silicon Valley solution – will ask Scott Aughtmon tomorrow.


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I was at a marketing conference and ended up sitting next to a woman named Maya who had the most unusual briefcase I'd ever seen. I asked her about it and she said,

I got it at the Coach store. I was planning to spend no more than $300 but the Fashion Advisor asked me some questions, and she recommended this one, based on my answers.

I nodded. Then she said,

I ended up spending $700. And I really hate the salespeople at the OTHER stores. But Connie wasn't a salesperson at all. She just found out what I was looking for and showed it to me. I simply HAD to have it!

I bit my tongue and did my best to keep a straight face. I didn't want to burst Maya's bubble by pointing out that Connie was a GOOD salesperson, and that's why she didn't see her as a salesperson at all. But Maya's attitude about salespeople would have made it very hard for her to be successful as a copywriter. That's what we'll talk about today.

Copy is powerful. You're responsible for how you use what you hear on this podcast. Most of the time, common sense is all you need. But if you make extreme claims… and/or if you're writing copy for offers in highly regulated industries like health, finance, and business opportunity… you may want to get a legal review after you write and before you start using your copy. My larger clients do this all the time.

Why Sales Is So Important For Copywriters

One A-lister who has thought about this a lot told me that success in copywriting ultimately boils down to:

one-third writing

two-thirds sales ability

If You Have A Background In Sales

It helps, but even there, you have differences. The mindset is the same in copy, but the techniques are different.

If You Don't Have A Sales Background, Check Your Attitude

If you have a negative attitude towards sales, succeeding as a copywriter is going to be very tough for you.

If you're open to / interested in / sales, there's hope for you.

Three key sales skills for copywriters

Prospects: understanding them well. Their world. Their values. How they talk. What their biggest problems are, that they can't solve, that your offer can help them solve.

Your Offer: What you have that solves their biggest problem or problems, and how it solves them. You really need to know this inside-out.

What's Unique, Valuable, and Preferable About Your Offer: What can they get from you, they can't get anywhere else. Or, how is what you have: better, cheaper, more convenient, faster, simpler. In other words, preferable. You need to know about the other offers your prospect is looking at, to be able to get this across believably.

When you have knowledge of your prospects… your offer… and what sets it apart in a favorable way, then you can line these things up and come up with some really compelling copy.

In copy, think of objections as THE REASONS A PROSPECT WHO WANTS WHAT YOU HAVE TO OFFER, IS HESITANT TO BUY.

There are about half a dozen basic objections most people will have about most offers:

1) It costs too much

2) How do I know it will work (in general)?

3) How do I know it will work for ME (specific)?

4) What if something goes wrong?

5) Will I be able to use it myself?

6) What do others say?

You'll be able to come up with answers to these objections a lot more easily once you have the basic knowledge and understanding of the three areas from the "lining up" section, above:

1 Your offer

2 Your prospect's mindset

3 Competing offers your prospect will consider, and specifically why yours is better

Desire: The more you can make your prospect want it, the easier it will be to get them to buy.

The key here is, you're not just selling a product or service, or even just the first- level set of benefits.

You're selling your prospect a better LIFE.

Urgency: One way is with devices in copy

Limited Quantity

Deadline

Price Goes Up (worked with me on Tuesday)

The other form of urgency is more internal to the customer:

The danger of doing nothing. What will your life be like if you don't get this offer?

Summary

1. Line up customer, product, unique value of product

2. Anticipate and answer objections

3. Increase desire and sense of urgency in your prospect

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They say that laughter is the best medicine.

It can uplift the soul. It can make people fall in love with you. But it's one of the hardest things to accomplish in writing. And that's doubly so when it comes to copywriting.

Kevin Rogers is back to join us this week. Kevin has a long history of both copywriting, and stand-up comedy. He knows what works and what doesn't when it comes to injecting comedy into your sales copy, and he's spilling the beans for you to gobble up.

There's a lot of overlap between a career in comedy and a career in comedy. But it takes a man talented in both to bring these similarities to light. And in this episode, Kevin and David do just that.

Kevin's Website Copy Chief
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Getting started is often the hardest thing for a new copywriter to do.

That's why we invited Kevin Rogers on the podcast to shed some light on the topic. Kevin is the head of the Copy Chief community, an online resource for copywriters of all experience levels. And he brings a wealth of knowledge for newbie copywriters to the table in this interview.

We cover:

How to get clients when you're first starting out

Classic mistakes new copywriters tend to make

How to join the Copy Chief community

and much more.

Kevin's Website
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My friend Michael owns a sushi restaurant in my neighborhood in San Francisco. His place is one of a dozen, maybe dozens, in the neighborhood - I've never taken time to count all of them.

Even though the restaurant has much more seating than your typical sushi bar, it's always nearly full at dinnertime.

One day I pulled Michael aside and asked him how he got so many customers.

"David, it's not all that many customers," he said. "It's that the customers I have, keep coming back."

Does a sushi restaurant owner know something that you don't? Or even if you know it, are you falling short when it comes to taking advantage of this truth?

That is: You'll make a lot more money when you find a way to get old customers to keep coming back. We'll talk about that in today's episode.

But first on the menu is this:

Copy is powerful. You're responsible for how you use what you hear on this podcast. Most of the time, common sense is all you need. But if you make extreme claims… and/or if you're writing copy for offers in highly regulated industries like health, finance, and business opportunity… you may want to get a legal review after you write and before you start using your copy. My larger clients do this all the time.

Most marketers leave the vast majority of their money on the table by not making additional offers to their new customers. Big mistake. True, sometimes people want to buy one thing once from you, but most would want more if you made them good offers.

One of my A-List copywriter friends writes for Mindvalley. He doesn't write all their copy. In a minute you'll see why that would be physically impossible!

Mindvalley makes two new offers every month to its large and growing list. It's currently an eight-figure company - between 10 and 100 million - and my friend thinks they're on their way to crossing $100 million a year.

Of course not everyone can come up with 24 unique offers a year. But anyone can benefit from different variations of their strategy, and that's what this episode is about.

One reason going back to old customers works so well is you have already broken down the barriers of unfamiliarity and distrust. When a customer knows you and trusts you, they are five to six more times likely to buy. When you ignore that, you truly are leaving money on the table. Let's talk about how to pick up that money off the table!

Three types of copy after the initial sale

Sometimes, all it takes is an ask. Especially if you have a consumable product that people use up. Amazon does this to me all the time. Maybe you, too. They'll usually ask for the SAME sale inside the website. Fact is, there are some things I buy over and over again. But I don't consume them at a regular enough pace to subscribe. One example is an Italian espresso coffee. So what I'll do is order it when the bag of beans gets low.

Let's say you are a golf equipment company, and the golf balls you sell are unique. Well, golfers lose golf balls. And if they like yours, all you might need is a little push - a special offer - to sell more.

Let's say you have a book, and a buyer list. If people love your book, they might want to buy a copy for a friend and/or a family member. Or a business associate. If you take the initiative, and make the suggestion, you'll have a much better shot at getting them to buy.

Two ways to do this:

First way: Make frequent similar offers of products you have developed. Mindvalley is the perfect example of that. They make 24 offers of their own related products per year. And people buy them!

If you are an author or a teacher/trainer/info-product creator, this is a strategy you can use at any size business.

OK, you probably can't come up with 24 brand new offers a year. But you can come up with more than one.

Coming up with new services will also work using this strategy.

If you make a physical product, or if you have an online store, the next way is better for you.

Second way: Offer a related affiliate product, or related products you buy at wholesale and sell at retail.

Do these seem more like marketing strategies than copywriting strategies?

Well, in a way they are. But there's no way they'll work without good copy to support the development of the relationship with the customers and making the additional sales.

Now let's talk about the third type of copy:

- Continuity program - membership site

- Gift box program

- Some foods and supplements I buy on Amazon offer these

- Subscription to a publication

- Copywriters Podcast, except we forgot to charge you for this…

--

Tips:

1. Don't always go for the close in every communication.

2. You have to sell them fully each time. Trust is higher and resistance is lower, but you still need a complete sales presentation.

3. Remember why they bought from you in the first place, and reference it directly or indirectly in your follow-up communications.

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I started teaching writing 30 years ago, and one of the biggest challenges my students always seemed to face was the amount of time it took to write. This of course was especially true for people who had to do writing as one of a few or many tasks in their businesses or their lives.

Over the years, I've developed systems and techniques that help people write faster. But I've never before shared the system for writing copy faster than I'm going to share today. This one is based on some of the same ideas I used 30 years ago for doing other kinds of writing, that worked so well.

We'll move on in a minute.

But first, there's this:

Copy is powerful. You're responsible for how you use what you hear on this podcast. Most of the time, common sense is all you need. But if you make extreme claims… and/or if you're writing copy for offers in highly regulated industries like health, finance, and business opportunity… you may want to get a legal review after you write and before you start using your copy. My larger clients do this all the time.

We'll cover five steps. These steps take the hard work out of writing, which is the fifth step. By concentrating only on each step when you do it, you cut way down on distractions and not knowing what to do next. This doesn't make writing copy easy as pie, BUT it makes it a lot easier, and faster, than most people do it.

Step 1 - Get all your research done in advance and ORGANIZE it for yourself so it is easy to access later on. Three types of research:

- product (or service)

- customer (avatar)

- competitors

Step 2 - Write out your offer: the best possible version of features and benefits so you could sell a primed customer what you have just with your description of your offer alone. You'll be dropping this into your copy later.

Step 3 - write out bullets. Anywhere from 20 (niche offer without a huge price) to 100 (for high-ticket offers in very competitive markets)

- the THINKING involved in writing bullets is the hardest part of writing copy, if you're writing your bullets right

- that's because you're translating your features into appealing, even tantalizing, benefits, that are very concrete and highly appealing

- while you're doing this, you may get copy ideas. Even headline/hook ideas. Jot them down on a separate sheet of paper, or a separate computer document.

Step 4 - Outline your copy - as bare-bones or as detailed as you like.

Here's a nine-step formula to start with

1. Headline/hook

2. Lead

3. Introduce yourself or your client

4. Talk about the problem you're solving or the opportunity you're presenting up to…

5. Your offer. Make it here. Add copy for bonuses if you have some.

6. Present your guarantee

7. Make a clear but not overly aggressive call to action

8. Give believable reason for urgency

9. Strong call to action

OK. Now you've got

- your research

- your offer

- your bullet-point thinking done, and

- a roadmap for your letter.

you're ready for step 5:

Write!

Important concept - Gene Schwartz - you're not writing so much as ASSMEBLING.

As you get more experienced with this method, you can cut your time by up to 90%. There are certain types of sales letters now I can write in an hour or two. They would have taken me weeks or months in the past.

Not everything. Some copy still takes a long time. But with methods like this, I've cut time on everything down to the bare minimum to still get high quality and results.


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