Copywriters Podcast

When I first started writing copy, it looked so easy. I had been an award-winning journalist and had nabbed the San Francisco Bureau Chief job for a large news organization.

I thought it would be breeze… but that wasn't how it happened. Not at first.

Copy looked very simple and straightforward to me, and, on the surface, a lot like news stories. And I was good at writing those fast!

Now, the more I got into writing copy, the more I found differences that weren't obvious to me when I first started writing copy.

Today we'll talk about what I kept and what I threw away. Things that don't work and things that do.

But first, I need to tell you something about copy.

Copy is powerful. You're responsible for how you use what you hear on this podcast. Most of the time, common sense is all you need. But if you make extreme claims… and/or if you're writing copy for offers in highly regulated industries like health, finance, and business opportunity… you may want to get a legal review after you write and before you start using your copy. My larger clients do this all the time.

Advantages of journalism

- despite current charges "fake news," high historical credibility. Journalists play by the rules, which are unique to journalism. The journalistic process, because it needs to happen so fast, is not 100% accurate. But it's thorough and responsible, most of the time. As a result, most people believe what they read in the paper or see on TV.- advertorial / native advertising: "Borrowed credibility" (Gene Schwartz) – the format lends itself to credibility. 5x more ad readership when in editorial format (Ogilvy)- facts make things believable. Journalists are trained to recognize and separate facts from opinions. This is different from bias. Ben Shapiro, of dailywire.com, yesterday on Joe Rogan: "Something can be true, and biased." Sometimes tricky for readers to separate facts from opinions in the final product. But a good journalist will confirm facts by the rules of journalism, and that makes stories believable. Being believable/believed is every advertiser's problem and what every advertiser wants. (James Webb Young, diary of an ad man).

Journalistic techniques you probably shouldn't use in your copy:

big picture: except for product reviews, most of what you'll find in a paper or on a website will not be suggesting that the reader do something, like copy does. It will usually be entertainment and information. Sometimes, more entertaining, sometimes more informative. In almost all cases, that doesn't work in copy, because you need to sell, too.

Technique not to use: entertaining, silly – from a biz point of view, news stories and features are there to surround the ads in the paper. That's how newspapers make money. Rarely is a news story designed to persuade a reader to take a specific action.

Technique not to use: impressionistic writing (a certain amount of mind-reading -- as a copywriter, you need to base what you write onresearch, and solid experience) Journalists have license to do this. It will help make a story more entertaining, but it can backfire on you if you use the same technique in copy. People will be very skeptical if you describe someone in an ad the way a good magazine or newspaper writer does in a

Technique not to use: inverted pyramid. Wik: "Communication of major details before minor details." So readers can know all they need to know in the first paragraph. That means they stop reading. Great for informing and entertaining (news) … not so good for copy. A better big-picture model for copywriting is: promise/claim, proof, call to action

How journalists work, and how copywriters can borrow their techniques

- Interviews

- if you're a freelance copywriter, interview the owner/founder/client

- the rest are for business owners and copywriters:

- team that developed the product

- if info-product, interview the expert

- interview customers, find out why they bought

- note: an interview is much more powerful (and truth-revealing)

than a survey- Confirm facts; skepticism

- Ugly old saying among journalists: "If your mother says she loves you, check it out."

- You have to be diplomatic, not prosecuting attorney/hard-boiled reporter, when investigating. But get to the bottom of things. Not to advertise what's wrong with the product, but to know what you're working with so you don't eventually get yourself/your client in trouble by including untrue things in your copy.

- Quote sources. Journalists have "on the record/off the record." Kind of touchy to do "off the record" in copy. But on the record, with a written release, can add tremendous credibility to an ad.

Always start with a hook in the lede. That's what journalists are taught to do. And if their lead sucks, their editor will probably kick it back to them, or kill the story altogether. Here are a few leads from recent news stories:

Associated Press: CHICAGO (AP) — By extracting Chicago money from a measure all Illinois public schools needed to get state funding this fall, Gov. Bruce Rauner reignited an age-old but divisive political strategy on a new front.

Arizona Republic: Joshua Schwabenbauer was only 26 when he died in a tragic boating accident. His organs were donated and gave four people a second chance at life. The woman who received his heart, Adelia Harris, 24, met his family for the first time.

TMZ: Romeo Santos not only ripped off a musician's song and released it as his own, but he didn't even bother to change the name ... according to a new lawsuit.

Nazim Guity claims he wrote a tune in 2011, titled "Eres Mia," and worked with a music producer and recording studio to mix and record the track ... and copyrighted the song in March 2014.

--

Those are interesting ledes. Good for info and entertainment, but not good setups for a sales pitch. Still, notice how they grab attention and will make you want to keep on reading – if you're interested in Illinois politics (first one), if you like uplifting human interest stories (second one), and if you're interested in the music and musicians mentioned in the lede (third one).

Zeitgeist / top of mind. Journalists need to keep up to date on the news overall, and will sometimes refer to other things going on as a jumping off point in a story. Example, during the Olympics, a business has record sales. A newspaper could say, "ABC company earned itself a gold medal in June for having the best second quarter in its 14-year history." Well, the business didn't really earn a gold medal. It's a reference to the Olympics, which is on everyone's mind.Let's say you had a green thumb with all the vegetables in your garden at home and you had an info-product for other home gardeners.Someone writing about you could start the copy:

"I don't know if they give out gold medals for gardening, but if they did, Nathan Fraser would easily get all of them. And I just found out his ready to share his world-class gardening secrets with the public!" That could be a good lead for a sales piece, and it would tap into the top-of-mind thoughts of the Olympics. Handy technique!

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You can improve the persuasiveness of your copy by using hypnotic language. This episode shows you how.

About 10 years ago, I took a series of seminars on how to sell from the platform when you're giving a speech. The teacher was good… really good. I decided to try to figure out why he was so good. I asked him, "It sounds to me like you're taking a sales letter and making it horizontal – that is, turning the script of a sales letter into a speech."He agreed with me. But something was bugging me… he was doing more than just dictating sales letters.

I realized he was doing something else… he was slipping in hypnotic techniques as he spoke. He certainly didn't invent these techniques, but he was using them in an expert way.

Today, we're going to talk about some of those techniques, and other ones, that you can use in your copy.

Warning – don't drive or operate heavy machinery. You'll probably be fine – this is not "deep trance" hypnosis. But you might find your mind goes to a different place, so above all, stay safe…

And here's another way to stay safe:

Copy is powerful. You're responsible for how you use what you hear on this podcast. Most of the time, common sense is all you need. But if you make extreme claims… and/or if you're writing copy for offers in highly regulated industries like health, finance, and business opportunity… you may want to get a legal review after you write and before you start using your copy. My larger clients do this all the time.

Hypnotic language for copy is about bypassing the thinking mind partially or entirely and going directly to the unconscious mind, in a way that doesn't disturb the conscious mind and in fact, makes sense to the conscious mind. All of these examples do that.

- because (Cialdini talks about this, too)

Ordinary: You'll really enjoy this new course.

Hyp.: You'll really enjoy this course because you'll find it easy to do things that used to be hard for you to do… or, impossible.

- and

Ordinary: This book gives you a lot of information to help your business. It has changed the lives of millions.

Hyp: This book gives you a lot of information to help your business, and it has changed the lives of millions.

- which means

Ordinary: I've spent decades putting together the best possible system. People who haven't been able to "get it" before can now succeed.

Hyp.: I've spent decades putting together the best possible system, which means people who haven't been able to "get it" before can now succeed.

- every time

Ordinary: Do this regularly and you'll see constant progress.

Hyp.: Every time you do this regularly, you'll see constant progress.

- when (try the same sentence)

Ordinary: Do this regularly and you'll see constant progress.

Hyp.: When you do this regularly, you'll see constant progress

2. Hypnotic sentence structure-

The more, the more

Example: The more you listen to Copywriters Podcast, the more you'll make extra money with your copy.- Reframe: "It's not that ___, it's that __"

Example: (this is an old one!) It's not that advertising is a cost… it's that advertising brings more money into your business.

- As you_____, you ____

Example: As you study this material, you find your confidence increases exponentially!

- open loops (Zeigarnik effect)

Also known in the entertainment industry as a "cliffhanger." Zeigarnik's experiments found that people pay more attention and remember better when you leave them hanging in the middle of a story. Getting attention focused is what hypnosis is really all about.

- embedded commandsHam-fisted: You want to buy this book.

Embedded command: Depending on how closely you're paying attention, it may turn out that you want to buy this book.

Recap: Phrases, sentence structure, techniques. The idea is to engage the unconscious mind in a way that positively influences the prospect's decision to take action.

Next time: What I learned in journalism that helps copy – and what I had to unlearn from journalism because it was hurting my copy.


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What if you have some copy and you'd like it to convert better? In this episode, David shares some closely-guarded secrets on how the pro's do that.

Let's say I could show you a very special slot machine. This one only takes quarters. Every time you put four quarters in, you get five quarters back. Pretty soon, those extra quarters start to add up.

Wouldn't you want to play a machine like that all day? Or play two at a time? Or play 10 at a time? Or 100?

That's what a good piece of copy does. After the copy is written, you spend, let's say, $1.00 in marketing, and you get $1.25 back in profits. For every letter you mail out. Or every ad dollar you spend. Twenty-five percent ROI. Nice return on your investment.

But suppose the slot machine changed.

Suppose it started only giving back three quarters for every four quarters you put in.

What would you do?

Or, suppose instead of getting five quarters back, you wanted to get six back? Or seven?

What would you do then?

In both cases – turning three quarter back into five quarters, or turning five quarters to six or seven – the solution is the same: Improving the performance of a piece of copy.

In this episode, I'll share some little-known secrets for getting more money in for the same money you put out.

But first, listen to this:

Copy is powerful. You're responsible for how you use what you hear on this podcast. Most of the time, common sense is all you need. But if you make extreme claims… and/or if you're writing copy for offers in highly regulated industries like health, finance, and business opportunity… you may want to get a legal review after you write and before you start using your copy. My larger clients do this all the time.

Now … how do you fix a piece of copy that's not performing well enough, and how do you improve copy that's profitable, to make it more profitable?

There are three time-tested, proven ways to do that. Adjust…

Headline, Offer, Pricing. We'll go over several ways to fix each one.

When you get them right, they work like gangbusters.

1. Headline

You have your greatest leverage with a headline. Ted Nicholas – reported 17x improvement in response by changing a headline. Don't know which one. Radio show "The only way left for the little guy to get rich." Board lit up. He knew he had a winner. Key is to pay attention and constantly be on the lookout for words, phrases and ideas that get people interested and motivated.

I critique 2-4 pieces of copy every week, and the biggest problems I see over and over have to do with weak headlines. The way weak headlines can be fixed will also work to improve performance of copy that's already working, but could work better.

FIRST PROBLEM: Giant claims which are not believable and not even relevant to what the marketer is offering prospects

Fix: make it believable and relevant to your solution

The problem comes when the copywriter does not take the time or do the work to discover what the prospect believes to begin with, and then to figure out what the prospect wants or would like, but is possible… that the prospect believes could be possible.

Do that and it becomes a lot easier, and your chance of improving your copy goes way, way up.

And if you've got a piece that's working, look at how you can tidy up anything that might make it more believable and more relevant.

SECOND PROBLEM: Headline does not even remotely have anything to do with "the conversation going on in the prospect's mind"

Fix: tune into the conversation already going on in the prospect's mind, and join it

Way too often, people depend on their own imagination by itself, or their own life experience, and make this huge leap to the idea that they have discovered or come up with something other people want to buy. People buy based on what they want and they need, not what you pretend that you know they want or need, or, even worse, what you think they should want or need, but in reality, they don't.

Again, this gets back to that one piece of research that too many people haven't done: Who's their prospect, and what's on this person's mind?

Now, if you've got a piece that's working, your situation might be a little different. Your headline might miss the conversation going on in your prospect's mind by an inch rather than by a mile, that's a great opportunity to fine-tune and zero-in. Get it exactly right and your response will soar up into the stratosphere.

THIRD PROBLEM: Headline is more of a description than a meaningful promise to the prospect.

Fix: turn headline into an intriguing promise, that relates to a big problem your prospect has and is aware of, and that you can solve

Gene Schwartz in Breakthrough Advertising says it in Chapter 1 of Breakthrough Advertising. You can't put your product in the headline. You have to put something captivating about your product's performance in the headline.

Example: Fan – blade / cool breeze

Performance is a benefit. A good benefit can also make a good promise, and really pump up your response. The better the benefit, the better the response.

FOURTH: Headline is long and rambling when it could be a lot tighter, punchier, and more effective; fix: tighten it up and make it punchier

A lot of people look at long headlines and figure you can throw anything up there as long as you fill it with hype and emotion. Actually, that's not true at all.

In a headline, every word has to earn its place. You know who I heard that first from? The guy who writes long headlines everyone tries to imitate. John Carlton. Who we had on the show a few episodes ago.

But it's almost impossible for most people to imitate Carlton. For one thing, every headline he writes is very customized to a specific situation. For another, if you look at his headlines, you can't take out a word to make it better. Even though it's hard to tell until you really examine his headlines, every word is honed and every headline is as tight, muscular and efficient as can be.

Example from a Carlton letter:

Why Does This Man Have One Of The Most Dazzling Records On Wall Street?

Mysterious Arizona "Human Computer" Humiliates Wall Street "Experts" For 21st Consecutive Year!

You can't make it any shorter and I defy you to make it any better!

Other ways to boost response

Offer:

FIRST PROBLEM: No imagination in presenting the offer. No excitement, no romance, no sense of possibilities.

Fix: Put more emotion, creativity, context into your offer. Talk about how the prospect's life will be different and better once they have and are using your product.

SECOND PROBLEM: The offer's not clear. You don't know what you get.

Fix: Rewrite your offer until it's crystal clear

THIRD PROBLEM: The offer doesn't highlight attractive differences well enough.

Fix: Do more competitive research. Put together a chart if necessary. Point out clearly and vividly why your offer is better.

Price:

FIRST PROBLEM: Price is too high or too low.

Do price testing. A/B splits till you find the most profitable price point.

SECOND PROBLEM: Lack of payment plan or payment plan can be improved

Gary Halbert story – 30 day delay Guthy Renker – conversion tripled.

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Sometimes you'll make more sales when copy is only PART of the picture. This episode is how copy "plays well with others."

If you've ever bought a direct mail list, you can get a typical compiled list for as little as 10 cents to 25 cents a name. Sometimes for even less than that. A compiled direct mail list is usually put together from publicly available records. It doesn't tell you anything about the desires or behaviors of the people on the list.

For that, you might want a response list. For example, magazine subscribers. Seminar attendees. Product purchasers. Response lists are made up of people who have demonstrated their desires through behavior. That is, they have bought something. And buying is a behavior that shows a desire.

The people who sell these lists know that the names are a lot valuable. And so, with a response list, the price can climb steeply. You might pay $1 a name… $5 a name… even $10 a name.

But then there's a still higher level of pricing, and that's where you buy qualified leads for prospects who are interested in making high-dollar purchases.

For example, here's an interesting fact: 85% of all new salespeople in the insurance industry wash out within two years. It's not necessarily that they're all such terrible salespeople, or even that they all hate selling insurance. It's that it's so hard for most of them to keep getting enough qualified leads to stay profitable.

The people who sell qualified insurance leads know this, and you can pay astronomical prices for highly qualified insurance leads from mailing list brokers and lead brokers. Remember we started at 10 cents a name with compiled lists. Insurance leads can run as much as $60 apiece… which is 600 times more than 10 cents! Maybe even more, depending on how qualified the lead is.

Why? Because in the right hands, a $60 insurance lead has the potential to create a four-, five- or six-figure commission for the insurance agent. And in very rare cases, a skilled and lucky life insurance agent can make over one million dollars in commissions for selling just one policy to a lead like that!

Now, what does all of this have to do with copy? Am I suggesting copywriters go into the business of writing copy that produces highly qualified insurance leads? It's not a bad idea if you can figure out how to do it, but that's not what this episode of the Copywriters Podcast is about.

I tell this story – from 10 cents to $60 a name – to make this point: In an insurance sale like I described, the million-dollar commission does not come solely from copy, but the very expensive name is one part of the traditional direct marketing process.

And if you use copy to solve a big sales and marketing problem – which may be only one part of the larger sales process, and could be something other than getting qualified leads – you can really boost the bottom line of a business, or, if you negotiate a good deal, make a lot of money for yourself.

So, here's the point: You don't always need to use copy to close the entire sale. A lot of people think that's the only way to use copy when you're using copy to sell, but it's not. Today we're going to explore some of the other ways copy helps you get more business, when it's only part of the process.

But first, here's some copy many listeners have grown to know and love:

Copy is powerful. You're responsible for how you use what you hear on this podcast. Most of the time, common sense is all you need. But if you make extreme claims… and/or if you're writing copy for offers in highly regulated industries like health, finance, and business opportunity… you may want to get a legal review after you write and before you start using your copy. My larger clients do this all the time.

Let's start with what copy is good for and typically used for- small price product sale: book, gadget, everything under the sun (Amazon), tickets (stubhub), stuff in your garage that you would like to trade for cash (eBay, the owner of stubhub)- that's a "one step sale," which in the sales world is called a "one call close"

- this episode was inspired by a long and spirited thread on Facebook, where I asked about closing high-end sales with copy. Some people adamantly insisted that if the copy was good enough, that was all you needed. I'm not sure how much actual experience they had, though. Most people said copy was part of high end sales, and that live conversations were used after copy generated qualified leads

- to be sure, there are people like Frank Kern and Dan Kennedy who can fill $10K seminars with copy alone, and have done so more than once. And there are publications like Forbes and Bloomberg Businessweek that fill high-end conferences and cruises the same way. So it's not impossible. But I would say it's the exception more than the rule.

When copy makes more sense as part of the sale

- My $5000 Breakthrough Copywriting Seminar in Las Vegas. We had to talk to almost every person after they had read the sales letter. In the FB post, a lot of people reported similar experiences. Since the hardest part of marketing a high-end event is often generating a hot lead, this is a very workable situation.

- Where people have to see what they're buying. You can use copy to generate leads for residential real estate. I'm sure it's possible in some cases to close the sale with pictures and sight unseen (in person), but usually a homebuyer wants to walk through the house and see the neighborhood before they buy.

- With a personal service like coaching. Only mentoring one client in recent memory signed up without talking to me, and that was because of a referral from a very trusted source. Generally they want to talk with me first, after they've been to my website and filled out the application form. And I want to talk to them, too. There's some personal chemistry that's necessary to make that kind of service work.

- With something like a job application. You don't usually want to hire someone just because of a résumé, which can be seen, and used as, a form of copy. You want to talk to them first. Nor do you usually want to accept a job without talking to the employer, even though with good copy an employer can "close the sale" and make someone want to apply and work for a company. People need to talk to each other most of the time in a situation like that.

How to look at copy differently

- Copy is leverage. The old phrase is "salesmanship multiplied." That can be insulting to women and in some businesses, women do a better job selling than men do, so it can also be an inaccurate phrase. Now if you look at copy as a sales presentation multiplied, the idea is this: You can do more, more quickly, more effectively, and at a lower cost per sale, with copy, in many cases.

- So let's take the whole sales process for one product or one service and break the sales process down into connected pieces. 1) There's lead generation. 2) There's building trust and conviction. 3) There's closing the sale. 4) There's dealing with buyer's remorse. 5) There's getting referrals. 6) There's getting repeat business. And 7) in continuity, there's keeping your customer month after month.

- You can use copy for any one of those seven pieces of the complete sales process. Or more than one piece, without using copy for every piece of the complete sales process.

- A lot of it depends on where testing and experience shows you need human interaction.

Two examples with my clients

1) Abacus. All I did with my $40 million letter was generate leads. But that was all they needed. They were brilliant at everything else. But they were at their wit's end trying to generate leads.

2) MLM training company. They did the launch. That wasn't too hard. They hired me to do the back end, an expensive mentoring program. Letter took a long time. Over $1 million in sales in a couple days. If the server hadn't melted down, it would have been more.

Advice

If you can sell it all with copy – do it!

If you need human interaction, test and tweak to figure out what pieces of the complete sales process need human interaction, and which pieces can be leveraged and scaled up with copy.


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How do you create a Big Idea?

Remember what Steve Jobs said about saying no to 100 good ideas before you say yes to the thing you've got to focus on?

That means you've got to come up with some good ideas first- You don't necessarily need 100, but "you've got to turn over a lot of rocks" to find what you're looking for. - The key thing is going through the process of coming up with great ideas, not skipping steps, not rushing. And not stopping just because you've come up with one. Or two. Or three.

This involves research. A lot of it. First, within your field – about the product, competitor's products and marketing, customer comments on Amazon and other online review sites. Napoleon Hill – synthetic creativity vs. original creativity. Synthetic OK.

Then there's research outside of your field. Sometimes related, sometimes totally off the wall.- For example, these factoids from July-August 2017 Playboy magazine:

According to a survey, 28% of Millennials say having sex with a new person is a good way to figure out if you're in love with them. The same survey found that 57% of Millennials say they're lonely. Playboy asks – could the second statistic have anything to do with the first one? – Idea: could you use these stats to create a Big Idea to sell relationship counseling?

More tidbits from Playboy: The following are from TSA's list of Top 10 strangest items found at security checkpoints at the airport:

A baseball hat wrapped in barbed wire

Dead sea horses

A life-size zombie (actually, a movie prop)

-- Idea: could you use this to sell seats on private jets?

And finally, this factoid from Playboy: 8% of Americans think it's OK to take a selfie at a funeral!

-- I don't know what you could use that to sell. Maybe some of our more creative listeners will have an idea!

But on a less bizarre note, you can research sales letters and other marketing materials in markets different than yours… you can read books that have nothing to do with your market, maybe even nothing to do directly with business… you can really get ideas from anywhere, once you know what you're looking for. (reticular activating system)

a diffuse network of nerve pathways in the brainstem connecting the spinal cord, cerebrum, and cerebellum, and mediating the overall level of consciousness. (like a search engine for your awareness) -- example – My own reticular activating system was tuned to explanations about creativity when I was putting together this podcast – Jordan Peterson island example – otherwise, would have slipped right on by…

- Finally, a resource that can get you on the path to developing unique creative advertising ideas:

"A Technique for Producing Ideas" by James Webb Young


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Some copy ideas change history. They're called "Big Ideas," and that's what today's show is about.

He and his team pretty much redefined the music industry, the face of personal computing, and the way we use our phones. I'm talking about Steve Jobs, of course. In 2009, Fortune magazine said, "the past decade in business belongs to Jobs." In 2017, Recode, a tech website, said, "No single device will have as much impact as the iPhone in the next 10 years."

But I don't want to talk about technology or business right now. I want to talk about creativity, and not just any kind of creativity. I want to talk about that holy grail of product design and marketing and also copywriting, called the Big Idea.

Steve Jobs came up with a few Big Ideas that pretty much changed the course of history on planet Earth. Forever.

Here's what Karen Blumenthal, a Wall Street Journal reporter and author of "Steve Jobs: The Man Who Thought Different," wrote about him in her book:

"Jobs attributed at least some of the success to the company's intense process of elimination, which meant rejecting far more things than it accepted.

" ‘People think focus means saying yes to the thing you've got to focus on,' he said. ‘But that's not what it means at all. It means saying no to the one hundred good ideas there are. You have to pick carefully.'"

If Steve Jobs left a legacy to the world's future creators of Big Ideas, those 39 words are it.

They're worth saying again:

" ‘People think focus means saying yes to the thing you've got to focus on,' Steve Jobs said. ‘But that's not what it means at all. It means saying no to the one hundred good ideas there are. You have to pick carefully.'"

Today's episode is about Big Ideas in copywriting – what they are, and how to come up with them.

Now, here's a big idea for you before we get started:

Copy is powerful. You're responsible for how you use what you hear on this podcast. Most of the time, common sense is all you need. But if you make extreme claims… and/or if you're writing copy for offers in highly regulated industries like health, finance, and business opportunity… you may want to get a legal review after you write and before you start using your copy. My larger clients do this all the time.

Alright. Let's continue.

In copy, what is a Big Idea?

- A big idea is something new… important… and creative. That is used in copy to sell something. First, about creativity and creative people. explanation from Jordan Peterson: creative people (artists, entrepreneurs) at the shore of an island. Can see what others can't. Now Peterson points out that while the artists are often productive, they're not making much money in many cases.

Sometimes they're broke. That's because either they are so far ahead of the times that they are producing what the market does not yet want… or they're producing things that the market will never want… or, they're not skilled at marketing and selling what they have, if it is something the market would want if they knew about it and had it sold to them in an appealing way.So let's look at this same scenario as it applies to copywriters. An experienced and skilled copywriter can stand at the water's edge and get a sense of what's next in the culture, in the marketplace, and come up with a creative idea that can boost sales big time for a product.Important: The new idea is not the copywriter making up a brand new desire in the marketplace that he or she came up with in some brilliant flash of random creativity. The product the copywriter will be selling is still based on existing, predictable, and largely unchanging desires of the market. What's new is the way the copywriter came up with to get a prospect's interest and to sell the product that already taps into existing desires. That said…

- A Big Idea is a concept, maybe a headline, maybe something else, that's so fresh and original it can redefine an industry, or start a new one, by itself- Gene Schwartz talks about this in the introduction to "Breakthrough Advertising: copy that opens up "an entirely new market for an existing product

(example: imagine you came up with a pitch to sell Segways to golfers, that they could use instead of golf carts. There are about 25 million golfers just in the U.S. So that would be a Big Idea… )… or copy that gives an old product a brand new slant (example: bring back fax machines as a way to foil hackers)… or copy that provides a competitively-battered product a new weapon—not only to protect itself against its imitators but actually damage or destroy the loyalty of the competitors' following." (example: a Big Idea to make the Blackberry only smartphone people wanted to buy)

- So again, and this is crucial, notice a Big Idea is not necessarily about coming up with a new product idea. It's more about coming up with a breakthrough copywriting idea… whether the product is brand new or well established.

A Big Idea can also be something that dominates an industry. A real example:

- Wall Street Journal "Two Young Men" letter. Story – college reunion; classmates – one was CEO, one was department manager at the same company who worked for the CEO. Difference: CEO read the Wall Street Journal.

I don't know of any other publication that sent out a sales letter implying you would become a CEO if you subscribed."Two Young Men" highest sales of any tracked ad known: $2 billion

A Big Idea can turn a niche product into a mass-market product. Another real example:

-Stansberry and Associates – investment newsletter firm in Baltimore

- Copywriter Mike Palmer: End of America

- Idea… economic trends that would remove the US dollar as the world reserve currency – the yardstick against which every other country's currency was measured – and cause economic disaster in the US

- Was used to sell a newsletter, which was about other financial topics

- I used to hear it on satellite radio – a commercial for the video sales letter. Was talking to a mentoring client about this recently. He remembered the same thing.

- Obviously, The End of America was a Big Idea that became a HUGE hit for Stansberry.

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A blockbuster Hollywood movie can make hundreds of millions of dollars in a matter of weeks. Here's how you can cash in on one of its major secrets in your copy.

Nearly 20 years ago, I used to hang out with my friend John Cantu. We would meet once a month at Mel's Diner on Geary Boulevard in San Francisco's Richmond District, and we'd talk about all sorts of things.

Before Cantu and I ever met, he was co-producer of a comedy club that had been located just a few blocks away from Mel's. The club was called "The Holy City Zoo." Many great comedians got their start there, including Margaret Cho, Dana Carvey, Will Durst, Paula Poundstone, and most notably, the late, great Robin Williams.

Cantu had a great line about him: "Robin would work anywhere you could imagine. He'd show up for the opening of an envelope."

One day Cantu and I decided to crack the code of great storytelling. I'm not sure we ever did, completely. But one thing we figured out is that movies are entertaining especially because there are so many people in the story.

We went on to coach speakers with this discovery, and even did a special presentation on this subject for the local chapter of the National Speakers Association, along with our friend, the great motivational speaker Patricia Fripp.

Unfortunately, Cantu passed away in 2003. But he lives on in my memories… and I think our discovery offers a lot to copywriters, too.

That is, when you put people in your copy, it comes alive and holds interest. Yes, what works is different than what works in a screenplay or in a speech. We'll talk about boosting interest and getting prospects engaged in your copy, by the artful use of including people in your copy, in this episode.

But first, in case you've never heard this before:

Copy is powerful. You're responsible for how you use what you hear on this podcast. Most of the time, common sense is all you need. But if you make extreme claims… and/or if you're writing copy for offers in highly regulated industries like health, finance, and business opportunity… you may want to get a legal review after you write and before you start using your copy. My larger clients do this all the time.

Now, about people in your copy…

Let's reach back a few minutes… that story I told you about Cantu. It's inherently interesting because it's about show business and celebrities… but did you count all the people in that story? Besides me and Cantu, there were five other people in the story: Patricia Fripp, Margaret Cho, Dana Carvey, Paula Poundstone, and of course the unforgettable Robin Williams.

It was only a two-minute story… seven people. Of course four of them are famous, if you know comedy. And a fifth one if you know professional speaking.

But let me tell you another story that's mostly about everyday people.

I went to the bank Tuesday morning. When I got to the window, Jasmine the teller was very excited. You see, the Warriors had just won the NBA championship the night before, and they're our hometown team. She told me in great detail about watching the game with her brother, who was a Cavs fan, because he likes LeBron James.

Even though his team lost, she told me, he went out to party. He asked her to go, but, she had work the next day (which was the day we were talking). She told him she needed to get sleep and she couldn't do her job very well if she was hung over. So he went out by himself.

OK, there's a story. Four people in two paragraphs. Me, Jasmine, Jasmin's brother, and of course the great Labron. Don't you think this story's just a lot more interesting than, "I went to the bank on Tuesday and I had a nice conversation with the teller."

This is important because, that was out of real life. That's how people talk all the time. What they talk about isn't always that interesting by itself, but it becomes more interesting when they populate their stories with other people.

And the same is true with your copy.

Let's start at square one. The best copy is from one person to one other person – the prospect.

A lot of people make the mistake of trying to be too "businesslike" by not writing personally. Big mistake.

• reveal enough about yourself A lot of people make the mistake of trying to be too "businesslike" by not writing personally. Big mistake.

• write to your prospect like you know something about them, like you know what's important to them and it's important to you, too – and write in a conversational way.

• "businesslike" is more formal and aloof. Not good for copy.

• you don't need to overdo it. A few personal details that are meaningful to the prospect will do the trick.

Another place to include people is a testimonial, or a case study.

• At the very least, use names and a location.

• And where it fits, an occupation. By the way, "Mom" and "homemaker" are just as much occupations you can use as "CEO" or "chiropractor" – and just as important. We're not talking about conventional social status here. We're talking about your prospect identifying with the person giving the testimonial.

• Testimonials typically talk about results that people get from products or services – or, their experience using those products or services. Take it one step further by talking about how the results or experiences fit into the bigger picture of their lives. It doesn't have to be elaborate or detailed. Just meaningful and believable. And, by the way, true. And agreed to by the person giving the testimonial.

Example:

(not as good) "David's critique gave us tweaks that improved our conversion rates substantially. We're getting a better bang for our advertising buck."

- J.E.

(better) "David's critique gave us tweaks that improved our conversion by 27%. We're getting a better bang for our advertising buck. I sleep better knowing the advertising pays for itself, and then some."

- Jared Excellentus, Topical Life Tips, LLC

Now, let's get a little more sophisticated: What others will think of you.

- Victor Scwab in How to Write a Good Advertisement: "BOY PT MOM" – "Because of You, People Think More Of Me."

- One great desire wired into our neurology – the desire to improve status.

- Perfect example is the famous Wall Street Journal letter, the two young men story. The young man who started out reading the Journal ends up as the CEO of the company. The guy who didn't ends up working for the guy who did.

And, along the same lines, how what you sell will not only affect the prospect, but also affect others.

- Say you've got a self-defense course.

- Always START with self-interest: It helps the prospect protect himself or herself

- Next level: It also helps you protect your family

- Next next level: You can help them learn to protect themselves when you're not with them

- By the way, this is a key piece of the end of the Hero's Journey. The hero returns to society with valuable wisdom, and shares it with the community.

Finally, why do people and personality matter so much in your copy?

- We live in a world of other people, not products and services

- Your prospects aren't inherently interested in products and services

- They're interested in benefits – which, really, are how a product or service will affect them, as a person, and how the product or service will affect them in the context of other people

- Bringing people and personality into your copy makes your copy more meaningful… and makes what you talk about come across as more real


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One of the biggest keys to improving conversions with your copy is getting inside your prospect’s head. This episode reveals proven methods to do so.

When I held my Breakthrough Copywriting Seminar in 2005, one of my special guests had everyone there on the edge of their seats. It was Brian Keith Voiles. He told us how he got into his prospect’s heads.

I was stunned myself by the thoroughness of what Brian told us.

He said he imagined his prospect (let’s say it was a male) at the start of his day. What did he have for breakfast? What was the conversation he had with his family around the breakfast table?

Then Brian walked us through the whole day, hour-by-hour. Remember, this was all in Brian’s imagination! By the time he got to the end of his prospect’s day, it was clear that Brian knew this person pretty well!

Now I don’t think Brian was holding back one bit. But I do think that there were some steps for him that were so automatic – or so “already built in” based on his years of experience and writing of multiple multi-million-dollar sales letters – that he didn’t even think to mention them.

Steps that came before he would mentally walk through his prospect’s day.

Today we’ll talk about what some of those steps might be. I’ve never talked to Brian about this part of his own process, but I have gone through them many times myself, and coached dozens of other people on steps they needed to take to get deep inside the thoughts and feelings of their prospects.

First, though, my friendly reminder:

Copy is powerful. You’re responsible for how you use what you hear on this podcast. Most of the time, common sense is all you need. But if you make extreme claims… and/or if you’re writing copy for offers in highly regulated industries like health, finance, and business opportunity… you may want to get a legal review after you write and before you start using your copy. My larger clients do this all the time.

Now, onto the mind-reading.

It’s not really mind-reading, by the way. You don’t have to be a psychic to get into the inner world of your prospect.

You simply need to understand human nature, and then apply this understanding to your particular target customer in light of what you have to offer.

• Zero-in on the problem your prospect has, that your offer can solve, and the frustrations your prospect experiences in trying to solve this problem.

- We think in generalities, but we live life in specifics

- Example: Business owner looks for ROI and higher profit margins. But what they think about, as a problem, is:

- the results of not having enough cash flow or margins that are not big enough. Can’t make payroll. Can’t pay taxes. Can’t pay vendors. Can’t take home a paycheck themselves.

- or, the results of what it would be like to have more cash flow and higher margins. A bigger personal paycheck. Hiring more people. Buying better equipment. Taking a vacation. Getting a cool new car.

- To get into your prospect’s head, you need to drill down from categories, clichés and generalities

- The specifics are what resonate and what generate emotions.

- This is where you need to know something about your prospect’s life and their issues.

- But understand, people are remarkably similar in general. They want to get certain things done, or have things done for them, and there are specific things in the way. Your job is to figure out: What’s in the way?

• Understand it’s the unconscious mind that generates the feelings that are reactions to this problem – but the conscious mind is where the feelings get put into the words that create your opportunity to get into your prospect’s head.

- Forget about “logic” and the word “should.” That’s not how the unconscious mind operates.

- It’s seemingly much simpler, but it’s not stupid. This could be a LONG conversation but we’d go off on a tangent.

- For our purposes, let’s say the unconscious mind is very specific, but it speaks a different language. Call that language “emotions” and “feelings”

- Look at it this way. Any time you feel happy or sad, angry or confident, thrilled or disappointed, that’s your unconscious mind talking to you.

- Know (or imagining) the feelings of your prospect is one step. But you still need to home in on what those feelings mean to your prospect.

• Use research to confirm and hone your understanding of what’s going on in your prospect’s mind.

- Let’s say you’ve got an info-product on alternative cures for arthritis. You’ve thought about the initial problems, which are joint pain and discomfort in moving the body in certain ways. Then you take it to the emotions – how does the prospect feel when they try to do this, try to do that? What can’t they do now that they could do if the arthritis pain disappeared? How are they frustrated with other solutions.

- You feel pretty confident about what you’ve come up with. Now’s the time to be like a journalist or a detective and confirm what you’ve come up with.

- You can do this by: talking to people… eavesdropping on conversations where people complain about their arthritis… reading reviews and comments on books about curing arthritis… talking to people, like MD’s and chiropractors, who treat people with arthritis… and getting any other real-world information about what people say, think, or feel.

- Your research results will let you keep, or force you to throw away, what you speculated about up until now. What your prospects actually think, feel, and say is the final authority on what’s going on in their minds.

- When you’ve finally come up with verified information, you’re on the right track to getting inside your prospect’s head.

• Realize the more your prospect feels understood about what he or she is feeling and thinking, the more receptive your prospect will be to learning about your offer, and, to buying.

- The wisdom from the Bible, “The truth will set you free,” is important, but in copy, it’s only the first step. The keyword here is “free.” While the truth as your prospect experiences it is vitally important, it’s not enough. You have to win your prospect’s confidence.

- Don’t simply beat your prospect over the head with what you have discovered.

- You need to show some empathy. For the prospect to be receptive to your offer, you have to show concern and caring for what is true for the prospect.

- Old saying in sales I learned from interviewing Harvey Mackay: “People don’t care what you know until they know that you care.”

- You don’t need to go overboard here. You need to simply acknowledge that this is a problem for them and not make them feel like you are judging or blaming them – or, that you are being simply objective, like a computer spitting out facts.

- Make them feel like you are on their side. Don’t be shy. Make it a genuine human communication.

• At the end of the day, it’s the words you use that resonate most with your prospect that will determine how effective your copy is. But for this to work, there needs to be a lot of smart psychology behind the words you use.

- Simplicity is the key. But don’t confuse simplicity with simple-mindedness.

- You need to use a thoughtful process to take the complexity of a person’s life and experiences and boil it down to a simple way to express it, that rings true with your prospect.

- That’s why this process is so important. Notice you’re going between your own human imagination and specific research to get to the right words and knowledge behind the words.

- The steps again are:

1. Zero in on the problem your prospect has, and how that problem affects their life.

2. Understand the difference between the conscious mind and the unconscious mind. Unconscious mind generates feelings; conscious mind generates words to describe those feelings.

3. Use research to confirm what you suspect is going on in your prospect’s mind.

4. Make your prospect realize you understand how they are feeling, and that you care about that.

5. Choose the words that accurately describe what your prospect is feeling and thinking, and make those choices based on the four steps I’ve just laid out for you.

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This episode covers eight reasons people buy. You’ll get an example with the same product so you can see how to apply any one of these reasons in your own copy.

When I first started writing copy, I was overwhelmed with all the differences from what I had known and done before. As a journalist, there was a certain set of rules and a format to follow. Copy seemed to turn everything on its head.

I was trained as an old-school journalist. Back in the day, journalists were supposed to be objective, keep themselves out of what they wrote, and give equal weight to “both sides of the story.” Of course that was a goal more than a reality. After all, some stories have more than two sides to them.

But most of us really strived to be objective, impartial, and fair. I know I did. I wasn’t entirely happy with that model, because I liked to get behind things I believed in, and writing copy gave me a way to do that.

One of my biggest questions when I got started was, “How to you get people to buy things?” It took me many years, but I have finally boiled it down to eight reasons. It started out as seven, so now I call it “The seven reasons people buy, plus one more.”

Knowing this made writing copy a whole lot easier for me. I’m going to share my seven plus one reasons today and I hope it make things a lot easier for you, too.

Now, Nathan: I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it right now:

Copy is powerful. You’re responsible for how you use what you hear on this podcast. Most of the time, common sense is all you need. But if you make extreme claims… and/or if you’re writing copy for offers in highly regulated industries like health, finance, and business opportunity… you may want to get a legal review after you write and before you start using your copy. My larger clients do this all the time.

OK, so, to the topic at hand.

First of all, let me give you the big picture, and then we’ll drill down to each reason.

I’m also going to invent an imaginary product to sell, and show how to use each of these reasons to sell it. And, I’ll give you a little commentary on each one.

The seven reasons people buy are:

1. Make money

2. Save money

3. Save time

4. Save effort

5. Reduce pain

6. Increase pleasure

7. Improve health

And number eight is: Increase prestige.

Now, for the imaginary product: It’s a magic pen. This pen is magical because it allows you to write the best copy faster and more easily than anything you’ve ever experienced before. We’ll just call it “the magic pen” in this episode.

Wow… I can hear the orders coming in already and we haven’t even finished our prototype of the product yet!

Of course you can build you own magic pen by learning to write copy… and this episode is about a major part of that, learning the reasons people buy about 95% of the time… so let’s get into them.

1. The first reason – make money

You can make more money with this pen than you can with any other writing implement. And you’ll make more money per word writing direct response advertising copy than you can writing anything else – except ransom notes.

Comments:

- specific

- you’ll need to prove the claim; people are VERY skeptical about money-making claims, and reasonably so.

- more for b2b offers than b2c. But really just about the only primary driver in bizop and financial copywriting

2. The second reason – save money

With the magic pen, you’ll never have to spend $5000 - $10,000 – even $50,000 – on an expensive copywriter again. With this pen, you can create all the high-performing copy yourself.

Comments:

- show how

- don’t expect them to figure out the savings, walk them through ’em

- people love to save money. Rich people seem to love it even more than people without a lot of money to begin with.

3. The third reason – save time

Copy takes far too long to write. Now, with the magic pen, you can write great, profitable copy in practically no time flat!

- nobody seems to have enough time in their life. Saving time is an increasingly powerful appeal

- when you make this claim, people will be skeptical until you prove it

- if you can prove it, this is a very powerful appeal

4. The fourth reason – save effort

Do you struggle writing copy? Say goodbye to struggle with the magic pen. This is the easiest way to write copy you’ve ever seen!

- ref: laziness headlines. Even hardworking people like easier solutions

- show how your product, or service, makes it easier for someone

- testimonials, time measurements, before/after comparisons

5. The fifth reason - reduce pain

Does the prospect of writing copy make you anxious or give you a headache? Does writing copy with an ordinary pen give you hand cramps? Forget about those problems with the magic pen. It’s the most painless way known to humankind to
write copy. Everyone who has tried it says it doesn’t hurt at all!

- you need to know what their pains are

- the appeal promises to eliminate those specific pains

- as with all of these appeals, you need to show how and to prove it

6. The sixth reason - increase pleasure

What if writing copy was actually fun? Most people can’t imagine this possibility, but with the magic pen, writing copy might end up being the highlight of your day!

- as you can see from this example, it’s pretty hard to sell something as increasing pleasure if the initial activity or experience isn’t pleasurable to start with

- but there’s a difference between hard and impossible

- if you use this with something that’s not pleasurable to begin with, be sure to acknowledge that the prospect (probably) didn’t think this could even be pleasurable

7. The seventh reason - improve health

Research is increasingly showing that stress is seriously dangerous for your health. And writing copy causes most people stress. But now, with the magic pen, you’ll not only get rid of stress hormones when you write. You’ll also
increase the flow of hormones that make you feel healthier.

- this one was a pretty big stretch

- if it’s not a health-related product, you need to come up with a pretty good argument

- I’m not sure I’d use this as my main appeal, but it could “add fuel to the fire” in an actual promo for the magic pen

Now let’s get to the eighth one, which, candidly, I developed later after I had my list of seven.

It answers the question: Why do people spend $100,000 on a Rolex? Why do people buy a car for $250,000 when you can even get a very nice luxury car for $50,000 or $60,000, and a good, safe, serviceable car for a lot less than that?

The answer is: Prestige. It gives you status. Used correctly, something like this can get others to admire and respect you.

So…

8. The eight reason: Increase prestige

When people find out you’re a writer AND they see how well you’re doing in business, they will respect you as one of the very rare and successful. You can have all that and more with the magic pen.

- here, you need to get into the prospect’s world

- prestige is usually/almost always about what others think

- you need to figure out what your product or service will do to make a good impression on others

Review:

1. Make money

2. Save money

3. Save time

4. Save effort

5. Reduce pain

6. Increase pleasure

7. Improve health

8. Increase prestige

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My all-time biggest hit was a direct mail sales letter for Abacus Travel Management that generated $40 million in new business. I wrote this pretty early in my career as a copywriter… over 20 years ago.

One of the biggest challenges I had was getting into the way of thinking that ran through my prospect’s minds. My prospect was an entrepreneur who had a successful company and bought a lot of travel. I had never met anyone like that before, so it took a lot of research and a lot of mental effort before I could zero-in on who this person was.

What I found out was, because they were so successful, nobody would cut them any slack. Everyone assumed the successful entrepreneur had no problems, since it seemed like they had endless amounts of money and other people did all the work. The reality, of course, was quite different – these people worked harder than anyone else at their company. And what good was money if you didn’t have any time to enjoy it?

So eventually I came up with the perfect headline. The idea was, here you are, you overworked entrepreneur who everyone wants something from. How would you like to get a first-class vacation at rock-bottom prices? The reason we, Abacus Travel Management, are offering this to you, is so we can give you a little sample of what we could do for all your business travel. Not just you, but everyone in your company.

Prospects loved it. Abacus had to stop mailing the letter after a few weeks because they couldn’t keep up with the appointments!

The funny thing was, nobody actually took Abacus up on the vacation offer… but, a lot of people hired Abacus for their companies.

Here’s what’s important about that true story: A big part of the success of that letter was that I was able to get in the prospect’s way of thinking. I made them feel understood and cared about. That in itself was rare enough in their world so that they would ask for a meeting… and my client was able to take it from there and close sales.

And that is how valuable getting into your prospect’s way of thinking can be. In this case, it was worth $40 million.

Now, looking back nearly 25 years, I know that I was not unusual in having a hard time getting into my prospect’s way of thinking. I know this because even the most talented copywriters I coach often have problems with this at first. It’s not something they teach in school, you know. In fact I don’t know anyone who teaches a system for how to do this effectively.

Today I’m going to share some steps with you on how to do this. It will make your work a lot easier and your copy a lot more profitable.

But first, I want to remind you of something:

Copy is powerful. You’re responsible for how you use what you hear on this podcast. Most of the time, common sense is all you need. But if you make extreme claims… and/or if you’re writing copy for offers in highly regulated industries like health, finance, and business opportunity… you may want to get a legal review after you write and before you start using your copy. My larger clients do this all the time.

OK, now, here are some tips on how to get into your prospect’s way of thinking:

• Everyone talks about getting into “the conversation already going on in your prospect’s mind.” That’s right. But how do you do it? It’s not guesswork or magical intuition. After we go through these steps, you’ll have a basis for doing so. But you’ve got to take the steps to have any hope of accuracy.

• Remember how I said I didn’t know any people like my prospects. I do now… maybe in some ways I’m one of those people… but, the important point here is, I didn’t then. So I had to find out about them. That brings us to a really important point for most marketers and copywriters: Realize that you are NOT your prospect. That means it’s incumbent upon you to find out who is.

Now some steps:

• Start by finding out what PROBLEMS and FURSTRATIONS are causing their problems. Remember how I said these recently successful entrepreneurs got no sympathy from anyone, because almost everyone thought they had no problems? That in itself was a problem. And of course it’s bullshit to think anyone in the world doesn’t have problems, everyone does.

Key point here: Knowing the problems they have is good, but it’s only half of this step. Problems lead to frustrations… obstacles. What gets in their way as a result of these problems.

Just knowing a full answer to these questions alone will get you in much better shape for getting into your prospect’s way of thinking.

• Now ask: What are their values?

People have different values. You need to respect their values to sell to them, even if you disagree with them. (My experience with mlm folks and the $1million one day launch.)

• Ask: What are they afraid of?

Even the bravest and also the most stoic people have fears. True, people like that deal with their fears differently. It’s true that there’s a small minority of people have no fears, but they are almost certainly not your prospects! See if you can figure out logically what these people would most likely have fears about, especially in relation to your offer or set of offers.

• A little friendly advice: If you have an idealized view of how humanity should be, then take note of that and set it aside. A lot of people with strong political, religious, and non-religious spiritual beliefs have this kind of view. You don’t have to abandon what you believe, but it’s really important to sell to people where they are, emotionally and experientially. Be a curious researcher, not a proud idealist, when you’re doing this part of your work as a copywriter.

• Now we can get to it: “The conversation already going on in your prospect’s mind.” Once you have a sense of how they live their lives, what their values are, what they’re afraid of, what they really want – and, especially, what their problems are and what frustrations that leads to – then you have the building blocks for that conversation.

Three Research Tips To Find All Of This Out

• TALK TO PEOPLE IN THE MARKET - don’t argue. Be curious. Seek out their opinions and respectfully appreciate what they say. Even if you can’t stand what they’re saying. Because they’re handing you GOLD.

• READ UP - Look at reviews on Amazon. Look especially for strongly held opinions and complaints. If you see versions of the same thing more than a few times, that’s a good sign it’s a widespread feeling in your marketing place.

• Look at successful copy from others in your marketplace. Don’t steal it. Instead, see how you can figure out what values, fears and desires this copy is appealing to. You’ll want to appeal to the same thing.

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