This week’s show is with Isaac Wortley and Eddy Elsey, both practicing apprentices of a traditional Mongolian lineage holder, who founded Mother Tree Shamanism.

Isaac is an English shaman, who experienced a calling from a very young age. This led him to search out an authentic traditional teacher of Mongolian shamanism. Over ten years ago, he was initiated by his teacher, the founder of Mother Tree Shamanism, and has been an apprentice ever since. He has also studied traditional Mongolian/Tibetan medicine for last three years. He currently lives in the Midlands in England providing shamanic and traditional medicine services for people in the West.

Eddy has been studying as an apprentice with Mother Tree Shamanism for the last 3 years after transitioning to traditional shamanism from his previous background in neo-shamanism. He lives between the Midlands and London, and works as a traditional massage therapist. He is passionate about helping people discover authentic and traditional forms of spirituality.

In this episode, Lian, Isaac and Eddy explore the profound healing power and depth of traditional shamanism, particularly through the Mongolian lineage they now both follow. Isaac shares the extraordinary story of how he was called from the age of ten, drawn to Mongolia without fully knowing why, and how his lifelong health issues vanished the moment he stepped onto the path he was destined for. Eddy describes how years of neo-shamanic practice led him into severe illness, and how his journey to Mongolia marked the turning point in his healing and transformation.

Together, they explore the differences between traditional, core, and neo-shamanism… revealing why these distinctions matter and what is often lost in translation when Western models try to re-create ancient systems. Lian reflects on the unexpected complexity and precision of traditional Mongolian practices, and how both men have come to embody their path not as a profession, but as a sacred duty of service.

They also speak to the deeper structures that make these lineages so powerful: the scientific nature, the central role of mind training, the profound teacher-student bond, and the karmic depth of walking a path that transcends lifetimes.

This conversation is a reckoning with what’s been lost, and what must be remembered if shamanism is to heal rather than harm.

We’d love to know what YOU think about this week’s show. Let’s carry on the conversation… please leave a comment wherever you are listening or in any of our other spaces to engage.

What you’ll learn from this episode:

• Why traditional shamanism is considered a complex science of the universe… and how it differs from core and neo-shamanic approaches

• How understanding your own mind is essential to effective spiritual practice… and why lack of mind training can be dangerous

• What the teacher-student bond truly means in traditional lineages… and how it offers a level of care, guidance, and karmic support that’s rarely seen in modern spirituality

Resources and stuff spoken about:

• Mother Tree Shamanism on Facebook & Instagram

• Eddy‘s Website & Instagram

• Join UNIO, the Academy of Sacred Union. This is for the old souls in this new world… Discover your kin & unite with your soul’s calling to truly live your myth.

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