Hi, I am here with kris gieske, he is a Strength and Conditioning Specialist here in Colorado Springs. he has dedicated his life to learning neuromechanics and biomechanics which give him the tools to help you reach the pinnacle of your performance. Working with the nervous system he can get results instantly and he loves seeing the changes that happen with my clients from decreased pain to increased athleticism and strength. here is the full episode hope you enjoy. Listen in your favorite podcast app.
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Ari Gronich 0:00
Has it occurred to you that the systems we live by are not designed to get results. We pay for procedures instead of outcomes, focusing on emergencies rather than preventing disease and living a healthy lifestyle. For over 25 years, I've taken care of Olympians Paralympians a list actors in fortune 1000 companies, if I did not get results, they did not get results. I realized that while powerful people who control the system wants to keep the status quo, if I were to educate the masses, you would demand change. So I'm taking the gloves off and going after the systems as they are. Join me on my mission to create a new tomorrow as I chat with industry experts, elite athletes, thought leaders and government officials about how we activate our vision for a better world. We may agree, and we may disagree, but I'm not backing down. I'm Ari Gronich and this is create a new tomorrow podcast.
And welcome to another special edition of create a new tomorrow. I'm your host, Ari Gronich. I'm here in Denver, Colorado, and I'm talking to Kris Gieske, who is a strength and conditioning coach, he was a military vet who started his career helping to rehabilitate wounded vets as well. So I'm gonna let him tell you a little bit about who he is and why we're here why we're talking.
Kris Gieske 1:35
Alright, well, my name is Kris Gieske as Ari said him I am a strength conditioning coach. And I have a neurological background through Z health. And I got started in that through getting medically discharged military actually, due to a lot of back pain, a lot of hip pain, knee pain, shoulders, you know, different things like that. And the first time I went to this place called Life quest transitions, they had this big banner, right. And we're kind of almost voluntold to go, you know, that term voluntold. So I went in there, I'm just like, okay, whatever. I don't know what this is all about. But they're talking about all this neurological training, and then doing a little bit of strength conditioning on top of that. And I met a friend and mentor of mine named Dr. Grove, Higgins. And he started just doing some ankle mobility work with me. And when I didn't have very much mobility in my back at the time, I could only bend, you know, just a few inches before I just had excruciating lower back pain. And after just doing a few like ankle drills, mobility drills, I was almost touching the floor. And for me, because I was like, there's no way that something so stupid could have worked so well, you know. And so over time, I started going there, and I got myself better. And I started feeling really good. And there's another program out there called the Mission Continues. And basically what they did is they let you volunteer, any nonprofit, they give you a stipend. So I decided to start to work for life quest. And there, they allowed me to take the Z health certifications for free, which is amazing, because those are about two or three grand a pop, right, and being a veteran come out of the military, you know, you don't care, spending money. So it's pretty awesome. And so then I started working there with a lot of veterans of PTSD and veterans that just weren't overall broken, because the military does what the military does, and breaks, you know, a lot of anti remove a lot of people getting really a lot of bad backs, knees, shoulders, and not only were able to rehabilitate them, you know, to go back to live with their families and cut their medications, like, by 80% of them, wow. But also, if someone got to return to duty, they didn't think they'd be able to return to duty. So that was pretty awesome.
Ari Gronich 4:03
So, you know, being that you've been in the military and then had to exit the military due to medical, you know, issues and so forth. And we've all heard that kind of the system is broken, especially for vets. So what was your experience going through the VA programs, and trying to get yourself healthy? To where you weren't in so much pain? What was what was that experience? Like? What were the areas that you could see room for improvement, let's say?
Kris Gieske 4:38
Definitely, it's it's like the normal medical system, right? You go in and they're like, here's some pain pills. You know, here's some and Said's, you know, or some anti inflammatories and you take them and you don't feel any better and and then all sudden I just happen to stumble in. So this place called Life quest through a captain That was I was going through, it's called rear deattachment. It's a special, you know, brigade that you're in, as you're transitioning out. And he was like, hey, go check this place out. And I think there's a huge disconnect between, you know, not just like chiropractic, but also training, neurological training, there's a whole plethora of different modalities you can do to make yourself better that people don't realize exist.
Ari Gronich 5:29
So, you know, what's your mission? Because, you know, really, this is all about having a platform for vets. And for, you know, really anybody who's suffering from pain and trauma and so on, to get results and get better. So, you know, what would be the things that you would say, need to be fixed the, you know, the solutions to some of these issues.
Kris Gieske 5:59
So the solutions definitely is people that do do like, training, physical, you know, therapists and stuff like that, I think there needs to be better communication happens between trainers, and that aspect, because I used to work for national Personal Training Institute, and the owner was like, hey, Ace just wants to know, what do you feel would be a really good, you know, type of program that they should start to implement. And I was like, you know, it'd be awesome if we could get personal trainers, strength conditioning coaches, corrective exercise specialist to be able to communicate a little bit better with doctors. So I think the communication there is something needs to be a little bit tweaked and fixed.
Ari Gronich 6:51
Yeah, you know, I talk about this a lot. Actually, the I feel like, between the modalities, there's a language barrier. It's like speaking Spanish, and English, right? There's a language barrier there. Because doctor speak a specific language. chiropractors speak a different language, massage therapists speak a different language, physical therapists have different language, and personal trainers a different language. And you might say, Wait, this is the same body. So why so many languages, but it's the same thing as saying, an endocrinologist versus a proctologist versus neurosurgeon, right? There's so many different places that the rabbit hole sinks deep into. And so it's incumbent upon the training, in my opinion, to begin, and this is to all the schools out there any regulating body, you know, listen, listen to this advice, because it would be incumbent upon you, as the educators to educate these modalities in the language of the other people that would have added benefit to the patient. Right? Yeah, absolutely. That way, you can still specialize, but you have respect. And you can refer with knowledge.
Kris Gieske 8:18
Yeah, absolutely. And then, you know, there's just some part of that, as well as just with our medic medical system, right. And with chiropractors, and you have the physical therapists, the if, you know, corrective exercise coaches, it's almost like sometimes they're just kind of turn off because they're so educated in medication and doing a steroid injection versus going, Okay, what's the movement dysfunction going on here? Because that's the main thing I look at, when somebody comes to my office, I watch how they come in, how they're moving, how they stand up, how they go, bend over, pick something up, and they could have, you know, all kinds of different movement errors, that, you know, a doctor would just look at them and go, Okay, well, let's have, you know, do this steroid injection or whatever. And then it was off and like, man, the pains right back. And I work at a chiropractic office right now. And, you know, I'll see some of these patients that come in, week in and week out, and then I'll take them in, I'll be like, hey, you've got a movement, you know, problem. It's not necessarily have a back issue. Right, right. You know, it could be you know, something going on with a thoracic that's not moving right? Or your si joints just not moving right as you walk, and you get that quick fix. But the pain comes back. Right?
Ari Gronich 9:36
Yeah. So let's talk a little bit about the way that that happens. Because you know, as I always tell chiropractors when I'm consulting with them is, you know, you need to train your massage therapists and how to work with you how to work with their patients, in order to support what you're trying to do because if you get an adjustment A half hour to an hour later, you're already back out of place. Because your muscles are controlling whether you're in place or not. So you got to train the therapist who's, who's there to support your patients, not just in a relaxation massage, but and how to specifically work on the anatomy that you need worked on, in order for you to get the benefit of the work you just did. Right? Yes, yeah. And that goes the same for being able to tell a personal trainer or a strength and conditioning coach or somebody like that. The same kind of thing. Okay, I have this patient here, who is not getting better from my treatments for three years, right?
Kris Gieske 10:45
Yeah,
Ari Gronich 10:46
maybe they need something different. Yep. And an add on, that doesn't mean not going to the chiropractor, or not going to the physical therapists or not going to the massage therapist, because this happens, no matter what the field is, right? The personal trainer doesn't necessarily want to send them to somebody else. The massage therapist, you know, thinks that they'll, they don't have enough money to work with both of them, you know, both them and somebody else. And so we're not doing the referrals, that really would get the patient better because of our own fears. Right? Yeah. So as an audience member, you can kind of relate this to your experiences with being in treatment, being in pain, you go to first doctor, and they give you some pills, the pills don't work. So you have to go to somebody else. Did they? Did that doctor refer you to the other person? Or did you have to go find them through your friends and family? You know, what's the way that you got to them? And how do you know then that they're the ones that are going to be able to take care of your specific problem. And that's just an industry wide system wide issue, that it's really hard to educate a consumer or patient or audience on? Because it's can't be gun to be incumbent upon you to really do your research on who you're going to. And it really should be a more of a referral system from one professional expert to another.
Kris Gieske 12:24
Yeah, right. Yeah, absolutely. And you're talking about the fear thing, you know, for years, and I've never understood this Ari, like, for a long time, is that a lot of medical doctors will view things like chiropractic, like is almost Voodoo. You know, I'm saying like, that's a real stigma out there. Like, even still, even though, you know, you'll get somebody that comes in, you know, just them, they'll be out of pain and good. Or, you know, such as doing some of the stuff that I do with the brain training stuff. They're like, like, I've talked to a friend of mine, who's a orthopedic surgeon, you know, kind of, like, brushes it off is Voodoo or whatever. But it's like, No, these are modalities that actually work. And it's not like I've seen it with one or two people, like I've worked with hundreds of patients, and all of them generally get something out of it.
Ari Gronich 13:19
No, absolutely. And you know that that is, to me still the language issue, because they don't understand the language we're speaking even though it sounds the same as what they're saying. Yeah, right. But it comes across as, for instance, a medical doctor speaks in scientific lab terms, typically, while they don't give much credence to anecdotal evidence, only really to scientific evidence or lab evidence, right? chiropractors, massage therapists, physical therapists, in some cases, nutritionist herbalist, acupuncturist, etc. require a lot of anecdotal evidence, right. And so those two languages don't necessarily match. And therefore, because the science hasn't confirmed in a lab, that information, they don't know how to take it, necessarily. So, you know, again, it goes back to language and it goes back to the education. Yeah, and the system wide issue that that basically takes some people and turns them into a they're just right. He's just a personal trainer. He's just a massage therapist, you wouldn't say he's just a neurosurgeon. Right? Right, exactly. But why do we allow that to happen in our profession? Why do we allow that to be because We don't speak the same language as the people who are currently the most regarded. Yeah, profession, right. They think of another profession that's more highly regarded.
Kris Gieske 15:13
There is no I mean, and I think it goes back to exactly what you said, education, you don't know what you don't know. And they're trained, and one way, right. And then you're training to completely different, you know, way, and they don't have the excellent knowledge that you have. And like you said, it's that communication, like, lost there. That happens.
Ari Gronich 15:36
Yeah, absolutely. You know, that's why I say, you know, we can bridge these gaps. But we have to have these discussions in order to get clear on where those gaps are. Yeah. Right. Yeah. If we don't have, if we don't have the discussion about where the gaps are, then we don't know what we need to fill. Yeah. Right. So for you, for instance, when you go back to doing what you're doing, you might have a different perspective, from this conversation about how you speak to the doctor. Oh, absolutely. Right. Because you're going to be able to speak to them in a different way. And listen to this, if you're a personal trainer, or a massage therapist and alternative healthcare provider in any way, by learning the language of the people who have the respect, you will begin to get the respect of those people, which means that it will translate to the respect of your communities in general.
Kris Gieske 16:35
Yeah. Right. Absolutely. It's funny that you're talking about, you know, going and opening that communication barrier, right. So about a week ago, I had a friend of mine, and she works for a physical therapist, you know, and she said, hey, my physical therapist wants to meet you, because I told her about all the awesome stuff that you've done, and you felt my shoulder so much, and I go, Okay, cool. So, you know, I get in there, and I expected I have a sit down, maybe a lunch, and she goes, No, go treatment room. I'm like, Alright, so this is gonna be a trial by fire. Right. So she goes, Well, Lacey's having a little bit of shoulder issues today, how would you fix it? So it's like, double barrels ready to go. There you go. Five minutes, you know, show me what you got kid. So I was like, okay, so I go in, and, you know, I just, you know, do a little bit of muscle testing on her shoulder, and she's like, yeah, that kind of hurts there. And I'm like, okay, and I just tend to do just, you know, motor map of her scapula just move or scapula, right, and just really get a good motor map and her brain of where that is.
Ari Gronich 17:36
And before you go on, just tell him what a motor map is. So that,
Kris Gieske 17:40
okay, so motor map is in your brain of where your joints are in space and time. And then in the full movement pattern of that joint, right. And if you don't have a good motor map of certain joint, it will start to cause nociceptors to go up to your brain. Okay? So what nociceptors are, is a lot of people think of them as pain receptors. But they're threat receptors, right? Because pain doesn't live in the body. It lives up here, there's in your brain. And basically, if you start to move that around, or move immobilize joint that's supposed to be mobile around your brain, then maps a little better. And then when it maps a better, a lot of times, threat will go down, which means pain will start to decrease, movement, flexibility starts to go up, and strength can go up. So I had her just do a little motor map with her scapula being able to just move only that single joint. And then I went to go muscle test again, boom, she was strong. She had no pain there. And she's like, Cool. Thanks. And that was my opening to that physical therapist is they were like, Okay, cool. Tell me more. So then I went on to go tell her more about, you know, the brain training stuff I do working with vestibular visual system, as well as you know, working with neuro mechanics, but also biomechanics. So I could speak her language a little bit as well.
Ari Gronich 19:02
So let's talk a little bit about neuro mechanics and how they differ from biomechanics. And a little bit more about you know, how the brain because most people think I hit my thumb with a hammer, my thumb is throbbing. I am I have pain in my thumb. Yeah, right. This is the process in the brain, right there that the thinking brain goes through, and I think right, so what is the process and the actual body going through? And then what's the difference between the neuro mechanics biomechanics? And those kinds of things is what what we want to give to the audience is things that they can learn that they can then start to do so that they can change their own world create a new tomorrow today for themselves? Absolutely. Yeah. So
Kris Gieske 19:51
the best way I get people to distinguish between their actual brain and the thinking brain right, is I used to work with veterans. Okay. So, my friend worked with this one guy, and he was bone off from the legs, you know, from the hip down, like he had no lower extremities whatsoever. And you'd be working with me be like, man, I just feel like my toes are being spread apart. Okay, this guy has no legs. All right, but what's still there? The map in his brain to that lower extremity, right? So another another way I can put this right, is if I had if you're a paraplegic, right, and I took a knife and I stabbed you in the leg, right? You just kind of look at me, like I was a jerk. You should write, but you would not feel any pain. Why? Because there is nothing going through your brain signaling to your brain, hey, something's going on. Right? And basically, what the brain does, is it does three things, right? It receives information, right? Then it receives or gets sent input right from your body, then it receives and decides what to do with it, and then it sends an output, right? And that output is either you know, I can move my hand through space and time, or how that hurts. Or, you know, glandular functions such as sweat, right? hearse are salivating. And if the input going in, is disrupted, right, it's going to send a poor output. Right? And basically, NZ have what they call to the threat bucket, right? So you have, you know, going through your day, you have, you know, stress you have, you know, all these different things going in, right. Maybe bad movement patterns. And if you have enough of that nociceptor information going to your brain, right, detecting threat, you know, it's gonna say, I don't like this, I need this, you know, protect myself a little bit. And that's ultimately what pain is. It's a protective mechanism.
Ari Gronich 21:59
I think that's an interesting thing for people to understand. Pain is a threat. mechanism.
Kris Gieske 22:08
Yeah, yeah, pain. I mean, your brain makes it makes you protects you, right? In a way it protects you is through pain. Right? It's almost counterintuitive. But if I had like, for instance, I'll take, for example, a guy that I've worked with, and he had rotator cuff surgery, and I worked with him after he was cleared with the physical therapist and everything. He just didn't have full range of motion. And he would get to hear right, and it would hurt. How, oh, right? Well, if he kept going there, what happens?
Ari Gronich 22:44
It's kind of like a fly, that is in a cage or a frog, in a cage, jumping, jumping, hitting the ceiling, and then eventually, right doesn't want to go above this above that point. So you could eventually take away the ceiling, and you'll never escape.
Right? So what what eventually can happen as well as a pain loop, right? So people who are in pain can get really good at being in pain. So eventually, you know, it'll get to where you can't move here, and then you can't move in here, then you can't be here. So always call I do with him. Right? As I started doing just little motions, that didn't hurt, right? And then eventually it's like, oh, and he's able to go higher, and then higher and then higher, right? Because I reduced that threat to his brain. Right? They said, something's going on there. And I don't like it. Right? Because he is moving in pain free ranges of motion. That's okay. And, you know, there's obviously some strength instability that can be built up there too, as well. But ultimately, it's what's going on up here, right? How threatened is this? Right? And if this is really, really threatened, it's going to go How can I shut this person down?
Wow, that's an interesting, interesting way of looking at the that particular science.
Kris Gieske 24:04
Yeah, it's, it's it's pretty, pretty crazy, though. The way they teach in the health curriculum and everything. But the more you get into it's like, the more down the rabbit hole you go.
Ari Gronich 24:14
Right. So how would you say like, I've trained a lot of Olympic athletes that seem to have a very high pain threshold. Right. So as a therapist, I was very proud to have my patients basically say it was the medieval torture chamber. And that the table was, you know, the rack, like my therapy table was the rack. And, and, you know, they felt like champions just getting out of off the table. Right, right. Because I you know, I learned a little bit about Indian you know, way religion and way of looking at things and to the Indians. They the ceremony. are hard so that life will be easier. So if you think about their ceremonies, things like sweat lodges and vision, classwork, no food, no water for four days, and Sundance is out in the middle of summer, right? Yes, they're difficult. ceremonies are hard. Oh, that's the same thing with, with how I figured therapy should be a little bit. Therapy should be so hard that when you're in competition, it's easy. You're just flying through the competition, you got no worries at all. You didn't have to do that for an hour. You just did that for you know, 20 seconds, right? or whatever, you know, like, like the time it is. And so
Kris Gieske 25:42
I have seen some of your tables, things. I looked you up on YouTube and saw some of the AB work and I was like, oh, man,
Ari Gronich 25:48
yeah, that AB routine is, I still have not found anybody who can beat that averaging. Oh,
Kris Gieske 25:55
my God.
Ari Gronich 25:57
That is a half hour of ungodly torture that I put, so it's on YouTube, you could go check it out. Dominic Arnold, who is on this show, right? We did a video now mind you, I am about 120 pounds heavier, with long, curly hair. And, and I looked a little bit different. Dominic looks the same. Well, not the same as when he was competing. But you know, anyway, he was on this show. We have it on YouTube. So go check it out on on the YouTube channel. But there's an averaging it's 30 minutes long. And my challenge is to watch like the first five minutes and then try to do what's there. And then watch the next five minutes and try to do with there and see where it is that you are tortured to the point where your nociceptors Yeah, right. are firing threat and you're stuck. because very few that mean he you know Dominic is an Olympic champion, world record breaker, American record holder. I mean, he was an amazing Olympic athlete, right. And it tortured him to the point of no return. But he felt like, as he would say, I feel like Bruce Lee, I feel like a ninja when I'm done with I leave I feel like a gymnast.
Kris Gieske 27:26
A Ninja,
Ari Gronich 27:27
right. Yeah. All those things are things that help people, you know, they fit gymnast feel good. They're flexible. They're strong. They're right. Martial Arts artists. Strong. They're flexible. Right. That's how people want to be able to move. So try to do that, that that routine, but I'm intrigued. Yeah. You know. So I think that that getting that pain receptor up while you're in therapy?
Kris Gieske 27:56
Yeah,
Ari Gronich 27:56
I'm scaring people right now. actually helps to make it so that it doesn't go up when it's needed.
Kris Gieske 28:05
I don't see everyone is in a bad mood. I'll see me making them faces.
Ari Gronich 28:10
Exactly. But you know, what do you think of that concept that if you if you have this flood of nociceptors, and your body and your and you feel great at the when you're done, right? Because that's what the therapy does. You go through it, but you feel great when you're done.
Kris Gieske 28:27
Yeah.
Ari Gronich 28:27
So when you're in competition, your body is just going oh, this is easy. I can do this all day long. Right? No problem.
Kris Gieske 28:34
Yeah. And which time was peaking? Right. Exactly. takes me to a peak. Right. And that has its place. Right. So tearing down muscle to build it up. Right, that has that definitely has a point in that, right. But there's also stages, right that you have to program around that as well. It's like, Okay, what days do I go in? And I just tear it down? Right? And then what days do I go? Okay, I need to back up a little bit, right? Because I can tell, you know, if my patient comes in, I can look at him and go, you're not ready to train heavy today. Right? You're, you're you got up off that couch really, really slow, right? I mean, they're there, you know, so as might be grabbing their back might be out or what have you from whatever happened during the week. And some days, you just have to look and you go, and that's that's the art about being a strength conditioning coach or a PT or whatever you want to be, is you have to know when to say go. And you have to know when to say no. Right? Right. So there's there's a point there to where you want to push them pretty well, right. But on top of that I can I can use a lot of neurological tools to help them perform even better, right than what they would have if they hadn't done some of the stuff that I do with them. Such as you know the motor mapping hips and ankles and everything like that. But another one that isn't really talked about too much, or I haven't heard very many other strength conditioning Coaches or personal trainers talk about his vision training. Right? And there's a huge science behind vision training now as well. Right? And, and to where can you, you know, look in a certain area or snap your eyes and snap right to a target. Right? And right. And if you can't write that's, that's another neurological issue. It's no neurological deficit that can send those receptors up the brain going, hmm, something's going on. I don't know what's going on. Right.
Ari Gronich 30:29
So if you can't do this,
Kris Gieske 30:32
if you can't snap
Ari Gronich 30:33
three times fast, right? and land on the same spot, you might have a neurological disorder, or logical
Kris Gieske 30:42
deficit, right? So I mean, it's very important, especially in things like football and baseball, if you think about it, right, something comes at you really quick, you have to look real fast and catch it right. And there was an amazing study done. And they took a football team, there's two different football teams, one, they just did complete, just strength conditioning training with him. The other one, they did about half visual and vestibular work, and half strength conditioning stuff. And what they noticed was, is that the people that did the vision training and vestibular stuff was that their injury rate was significantly less, right. Because not only is your eyes very, very, you know, important, not only to see peripheral stuff, right. But also before I step, right, it's very important to be able to see before I step, what they found with like, a lot of ACL injuries and stuff was like that, as people would step before they could snap their eyes. So, so a lot
Ari Gronich 31:41
of ankle injuries, ankles. Yeah, a lot of ankle injuries. So number one, injury and all sports, ankle injuries. Number one injury and reason for showing up in an ER for just general citizenry, ankle injuries. The number one injury for showing up. And a lot of that is hand eye coordination. Yes, right. Yeah, a lot of that is the visuals. You didn't see that step that was right in front of you. And so you fell off the curb? Yeah. So to speak. Yeah. And twisted your ankle. So this is, you know, this visual mapping is really important. We learned a lot about visual mapping and NLP. Yeah. And in EMDR, and in REM therapy, rapid eye movement therapy, because we would trigger these different locations. But you know, I had a, I had a chiropractor friend in Beverly Hills, who was an amazing chiropractor, but he hardly ever did an adjustment of any kind, until he figured out where your brain was screwy. So he would do the muscle testing while you're looking up into the left, and then do the muscle testing again, when you look up to the right, I do down to the left down to the right, to the side to the other side, right. And then I doing that he would figure out exactly where in your brain that muscle was being shortened, or tightened, or turned, you know, the nerve turned into a pain signal. And I mean, he was incredible, interesting guy you would have liked. He had it. He had a tree growing in the middle of his office. That's great. Like they built the building around the tree. No, it was frickin awesome. That's amazing.
Kris Gieske 33:34
Wow. So yeah, building off the visual that he was talking about with the muscle testing was interesting is when we find ourselves in a day and age, right? with COVID. Right, everybody's in front of their computer for hours at a time. Or people who work at home on zoom calls all the time. I had a patient that came in with a ton of shoulder pain, right? Not only does that posture, you know, deviate, you know, shoulders and all that stuff. But no matter what I did, I couldn't activate your lats. And I'm like, What is going on? I cannot get harassed to fire. So I was like, Okay, let's do a little bit of visual work. I know it seems a little weird, but let's, let's just go there. So I had to look in certain positions. And sure enough, just doing a little bit of training a little bit of isometrics that lat fired really hard where I couldn't even pull it out. Wow. I was like, Okay, so here's some drills for you to do. And some of them were just isometric stares, just, you know, take your finger and looking right, something is stupid and easy. Is that right? helped her function and fire so much better.
Ari Gronich 34:44
Well, there are alternatives to your pain. You do not need the opioids, the end Said's, which really don't work much anyway. You can actually go to somebody who knows stuff. Right? So how would somebody find somebody like you? I'm not going to go to you yet because we're not done. But how does somebody find somebody like you? How do they learn that somebody like you exists when it's not being told by the mainstream, you know, medical system that you exist? Right? So how does somebody find somebody like you somebody like me, who is trained in so many different modalities? And if one tool in our toolbox doesn't work, we got 50 more that, yeah, can come out. Right, right. And then how do we get that message across to the mainstream medical system that we exist? More? How do we get people like you louder? Right, so that you can say, no uncertain terms, I'm here I exist. This is what I do. This is the benefit I give. And I'm open for business. Because, you know, the truth is, is that people will vote with their pocketbooks before they vote any other way. Yeah. And if somebody doesn't know you exist, they can't vote for you. Right. Right. So we need to get this message across more, especially in the mainstream medical system. But how do we get somebody like you talking this way to doctors? No, yeah, that's right. And how does somebody find somebody? Like you that has this kind of training?
Kris Gieske 36:32
Yeah, that's that's the million dollar question. Isn't it true, our voices a little louder, that you know, have these alternate modalities that you don't have to rely on a lot of pain medication, and you know, the medical system forever, and injections and all kinds of things. There is actually, on the Z Health website, you can actually find trainers online. And you can look at your area and see which trainers you have and what they're certified in. Okay, so what website is that? So it's z health dotnet or.com, I believe. And you go there, and they haven't
Ari Gronich 37:04
got the shirt, we got the shirt on for Z health.
Kris Gieske 37:09
And you go there calm and there's a find a trainer link and you just put in your address. And you can find some that are around you. And they're a master trainer, if they have few certifications, like I've had three certifications I've been in so far. And with that, I mean, you just have so many more tools in your toolbox. You know, when you're in the room with another, you know, breather, personal trainer, or you know, strength conditioning coach, it makes you so unfair. Because all sudden, you're like, well, he's dropped a half a second off this dudes 40 time and like no time at all right? Yeah. And what was another funny stories? I was working. I've got one more for the visual system. We got time for that. Yeah, one more. Okay. So I work at a place called champion health, but they're birthplace of AR T, right? active release technique. And so they're soft tissue work all the time. They're, they're pretty well known. I don't know if you've ever heard of them. Yeah. And this here is a major triad font where I can't say his name because HIPAA stuff. But he had a really bad collarbone injury. And he's pretty much all rehabbed up, but he just had some more sticking stuff that was going on. And they did a tons of HRT on it, and it just wasn't working. And Dr. Wood finally came to me, he goes, I give up, what do you got? And I go, alright, let me see what I can do. So again, you know, I tried some motor mapping stuff that didn't work. And you know, I was just like, racking my brain. Okay. Let's do a little bit of, you know, peripheral work with him. So I just went around his peripheral vision and found just a few ticks. And like what you said earlier, if you can't do this, right, you might be in trouble. So I found those few ticks, I did some isometrics exactly where those were. And all sudden, he was like, That's amazing. Like he lifted his hand and head over hand over his shoulder after he just had hair treatment.
Ari Gronich 39:07
Yeah, so I mean, I know how many people in this country suffer from frozen shoulder, especially because we're sitting on a computer doing this all day long, and our shoulders are basically locked in place. And then we go to sleep and we sleep under, you know, the shoulder under the pillow and goes to sleep when you wake up and can't move and it's frozen. So, you know, to be able to in like 5, 10 minutes. Yeah, get rid of somebody's frozen shoulder without having to rip them to shreds. Like, you know, we were trained. I was trained in a few different ways but one of the ways was a on the Asian modalities which is basically you just throw in a rip that sucker out of its frozen place, and then start moving it Yeah. And then rip it again and then start moving it you know, it's like this process of pain.
Kris Gieske 39:59
Yeah. You know, I'm
Ari Gronich 40:00
really not doing a good job here of promoting the benefits of, you know, seeing me, but if you're an elite athlete, it's alright. You don't mind. But no, I mean, this is just one of the modalities that we're training also, obviously, aka DK and some neurological work, but, you know, in 510 minutes, boom, yeah. If you have frozen shoulder, would it? Would that be worth flying out to see somebody, you know? Absolutely. Get rid of your frozen shoulder in a day, instead of somebody taking a year, two years, three years and not being able to knock that
Kris Gieske 40:42
getting no progress that out no progress.
Ari Gronich 40:44
So how often do you go to a doctor, a therapist, a chiropractor, whatever it is, and get no benefit? And maybe what you've got going on? is in your head. Yeah, but it's not in your head as like, fake. It's Yeah, this is an actual neurological neurological
Kris Gieske 41:05
deficit that you have going on, it's sending something the brain that it doesn't like, right, so it's gonna protect you, in the best way knows how, hey, there's a lot of stuff going on here. Right? So let's keep that limited, because it's protecting. Right? So,
Ari Gronich 41:19
you know, it's funny, a lot of the symptoms that people experience with ill health is really just the protective mechanism in general, to that thing that's going on that's causing the symptom to in the first place. So for example, you know, dementia is inflammation in the brain, and you have cholesterol that covers it up, that's called plaque. That's covering up the inflammation trying to, you know, squelch, yeah, the inflammation. And that locks your memory centers because of the plaque. But it's not the plaque. That was the issue. And it's not the dementia, that is the issue. That's just the symptom. It's the inflammation, right? Yeah. Which inflammation causes those nociceptors to fire? Like it will, which explains a lot of people with chronic illness and chronic pain, like fibromyalgia, things like that. So what do you do for somebody who, let's say they have MS, or they have Parkinson's disease, right. And now you're working on them to get better movement in their bodies. And you have this extra skill extra tool of the neurological work, so you can actually help them function with their brain better? What is that? Yeah,
Kris Gieske 42:45
yeah, I was, I'm fortunate enough to be able to work with a couple MS patients, which is awesome. And then they're their hardest workers in the room. And my hat's off to him, because they still show up. Even when they're in so much pain, you know, I've, you know, I look at my life after that, I'm like, I've got no problem, you know, but they'll come to me, you know, and I'll just have them do, you know, just simple things to be able to move their, their spine around to, to do complex movements that you wouldn't normally do in everyday life. So that way, it creates what they call a little bit of neuroplasticity, right? So then that kind of opens up their motor mood a little bit. And also they're like, hey, I've got a little bit less pain now. Right? So like, for instance, I was working on today. And she just came in with like, excruciating, like lower back issues, right. So I just had her do, you know, some simple just mid line, mobile mobility, and working that around working in different angles, twisting, and then doing a little bit of thoracic gliding one way than the other way. And before you know what, she's still gonna see the Cairo after me, but she was feeling much better, you know, and she said, we have much more control. Well,
Ari Gronich 43:54
the other benefit to that is that now when she goes to the chiropractor after you, he's going to be able to do that adjustment so much more effectively. And it's going to last so much longer. So that's where the collaboration between modalities has to come in has to it has to start being a part of the main stream thing that's happening in the industry, because otherwise, we're just kind of blowing smoke up the ass. Yeah,
Kris Gieske 44:21
right. Yes. As that's one of the big things. That mean, the docs that work there, we work really well together, you know, and they'll introduce me, you know, they'll just be like, Hey, can you show how to foam roll? And I'll just take a few minutes to be like, hey, do you mind if I, you know, watch you walk or whatever? And, yeah, sure, you know, and I'll be like, Okay, let's do a little bit of this. And then it's like, hey, do you want to come and do an assessment? Yeah, sure. Right. So that's kind of the handoff happens because doctor wouldn't knows what I can do, but that's just as soft layup and I was like, Okay, let's give it a try, because she's coming in Week after week. And we're the same issue.
Ari Gronich 44:57
Right? And I would rather it be the versus a soft handoff? I'd rather it be a prescription pad. Yeah, that gets taken care of through the right health care system. Yeah, that we, that we create, right? Because the point of this is that you're better than a prescription medication.
Kris Gieske 45:21
Now,
Ari Gronich 45:22
you're going to get the job done faster, it's going to produce less waste, right? Yeah, less times in the office less ability for fraud to happen, right? Right. Because the outcome would be more important than the procedures done, yes, after the amounts of procedures done. So if the outcome is important to you, as a patient, or as a therapist, or as a doctor, then you really need to, you know, listen to this way of thinking. And I, you know, I talk like this, sometimes I get into my, my preachy mode. But the truth is, is that if you don't, more patients are going to be in pain, more patients are going to be addicted to drugs, more patients are going to be wondering where they're, you know, where they're going to find relief, they're going to be suicidal, they're going to be depressed, because pain causes that in your chemistry, we know this, it stresses you out, which causes other kinds of diseases like heart disease, and, you know, so on, yes, presses on system. So in general, we need to build a healthcare system, that's not just designed the way that it is, and maybe tweaked a little bit, but redesigned to function more. And that includes incorporating modalities like yours modalities, you know, a chiropractic corrective exercise, you know, especially exercise for special needs, right. Because how many personal trainers, for instance, really know how to treat somebody who comes in with diabetes? Who comes in with MS who comes in with Parkinson's?
Kris Gieske 47:07
Yeah, there's not many out there, right? They're kind of lost in the sauce a little bit. And they're just like, I guess we'll do this. And then they'll watch them do a movement pattern, but they won't know how to fix it,
Ari Gronich 47:17
right? Or they'll, you know, do a few treatments, or a few sessions, few treatments, and all of a sudden, they won't see him forever. Because they got injured, and they didn't want to tell them they got injured doing that movement. Right, right. So it's incumbent upon all of us in the industry to start coming together and having these kinds of conversations, so that we can change the system so that it works more effectively and efficiently, so that our patients have a longer more joyful life. Right? Yeah, absolutely. So let's just, you know, talk about, about maybe three to five things that the audience listening, if it's a doctors listening, can do in order to change their own pain levels, their own issues, so that they can be more focused and really create a new tomorrow today, in themselves some actionable steps that they can do.
Kris Gieske 48:17
That's how they can like communicate with other trainers and stuff like
Ari Gronich 48:20
that, or exercises that they can do or something that they can actualize? You know, really, today, tomorrow to take away the pain, whatever it is,
Kris Gieske 48:31
yeah, so there's, there's lots to the balance. And not just standing on a single leg, right? But also incorporating, you know, head and visual movements, right, being able to stare at an object and move your head around, because then that gets in your inner ear, right? And gets that vestibular system activated. And what people don't know if you don't know what the vestibular system is, right? It's your main balance system. Like it's your master control of what your body is doing. And being able to just sit there and be on one leg, two legs, tandem stance, and be able to move your head around all staring at an object. That's that's one of the big ones that we take away with the PCI cases, right? right brain injury, right? Because they don't know because their brain can lie to them. And they'll have like a little bit of midline shift, and they won't even know it. And that's why they bump into things. And then they can't close their eyes and stand up right without falling over is because that's all out of whack. So if you're normal, and you just have a little bit of pain, and you do some of that stuff, sometimes that can also bring threat levels away now. Awesome. Yeah. And then there's other things that you can do if you're, you know, just on the computer for a long time, and you know, your eyes get really strained. I mean, an easy drill is called a soft gaze. And what you do is just put your finger up, and you stare your finger, but you also see your peripheral vision around so it's not Like hard stare, so it's just kind of soft, but I can see right now I can see the green screen, I can see the table over there. Right? I can see below and above, right? And oftentimes people are like, wow, I can I can read a little bit longer now without falling asleep. Right? Right, because their eyes are so strained. And then another one is just, you know, move your body man, like, in ways that you wouldn't think to move it such as like doing a thoracic if you can't sit up and just slide back and forth, without moving your hips. You know, that's something that can also be beneficial to you to be able to move that through acid arounds, that lumbar doesn't have to do so much work.
Ari Gronich 50:44
Awesome. These are some, some really good tips. I like the muscle confusion. And you know that that term is been used in in bodybuilding. Kind of, you know, haphazardly, I guess. But muscle confusion is doing anything that anything physically that confuses the kinesthetic system. So if you're used to walking straight, and at the same pace, just doing something like lengthening your stride, or shortening your stride confuses the muscles, and causes them to shift their behavior, so to speak. So you can fix ill gotten patterns. For instance, if you're if you're walking and your feet are like this, instead of like this, right, or like this pigeon toed or duck Toad, right? If you start to focus on your feet, and where your feet placement are, that's a muscle confusion that also works in your neurological system and start ending that process of pain signaling to your brain. Right?
Kris Gieske 51:50
And that's, and that's where the muscle confusion comes from, is basically it's it's your brain, it's, it's nothing to do with your actual muscle system, right? it's to do with how your how your brain is mapped to your body. So some people can't, you know, just do this, right, they can just only move their, their thoracic spine, and what they call that M, and z or whatever is called as neuromuscular amnesia, their brain just forgot how to do it. Right? And all sudden, they start to do it again. And they're like, hey, it's weird. I have more flexibility in my hamstrings now that I can, you know, you know, move in certain ways for some reason. And then the feet you mentioned is huge. That's, that's one of the biggest ones that we get from veterans too. Because when you're a vet, right, what are you in all the time?
Ari Gronich 52:42
boots,
Kris Gieske 52:43
boots, right boots, your ankle is just very, very immobile. So when you first start to do like, such as like an ankle tilt to the side, right, so it's just kind of like if this is your ankle here, and you just kind of tilt it and start putting more pressure and more pressure on it. And that's one drill I give a lot of my athletes who roll their ankles all the time, is because what happens? Why do people get sprained ankles?
Ari Gronich 53:06
No flexibility in their ankles that Yeah,
Kris Gieske 53:08
they've gone somewhere that they haven't been before really fast. And the nervous system is right, in the sense that Golgi tendon organs like, Okay, I'm going to activate the circuit breaker here. And you're gonna be in a lot of pain. Right? Right. So, you know, after doing a lot of mobility, especially with a lot of veterans man and seeing how much more strength and power and flexibility they got after that, but also when they first start doing it, they cramp like crazy, because they're not used to doing it.
Ari Gronich 53:43
Yeah, then you got to get them pickle juice. Yeah. But yeah, you know, I had a, when I was in gymnastics, I was three when I started gymnastics. I was I was a gymnast for eight years. Not as good as my brother who was almost to the Junior Olympics, like missed by three people, I think. But I was still, you know, I was competitive just wasn't as good as he was. And I would cramp a lot. And I would have all these, you know, different injuries. Yeah. And what ended up happening is we had our coach who did a ring routine. And I liked doing rings. I was really good at iron crosses, and things like that. And so, so I really was paying attention. And he did a dismount and landed with both of his ankles turned out. And he pops right back up. Now. I mean, mind you, he did a double flip off the rings and landed. It's a soft mat, but not that soft. That's right. But he landed his ankles turned completely out. And he said, This is why we train ankles every day. Yeah, right. But I've never heard anybody else. ever say that. Yeah, that I've trained with and baseball or any other sport tennis. Nobody ever said let's train here. ankles, right? No other therapists that I ever went to said that we got to train your ankles. Right. Right. You're like actually the first person other than me, I think that has ever said, I train people's ankles. I give them ankle drills. Yeah, absolutely. And it's one of the most important functioning things that you can do. Because your ankles, if you think about it, how your feet land, is your foot lands. And your ankle takes the shock that moves up to your calf and then your knee taking the shock and then moves up to your hip taking the shock, right, so you have all these different shock absorbers on the way Yeah, in the kinesthetic movement. If you take out the ankles, all of that shock goes straight to your knees, and your hips, right. So just turn your feet out and then bang on them or have somebody bang on your feet when they're turned out sometime. And all you're going to feel is your tibialis runners who get shin splints all the time, this is the biggest issue that they have is their their feet are turned out or turned in slightly. And all and they're putting all that shock. Yeah, right onto their tibia
Kris Gieske 56:11
right there.
Ari Gronich 56:13
And it causes the SAP and so if you're a runner out there, you just got a good tip, work on your gait, work on your your foot placement, and you're probably going to get rid of that shin splints.
Kris Gieske 56:24
Yeah, and another reason why it's so important to map out those ankles. Right? Is Yeah, have you ever heard the human culus? Yes, right, the motor homunculus in a sensory humility, this, you know, it's this thing with like big lips and big hands, and big feet, right? And it's because it kind of represents of how much your brain it takes up. And your feet take up a lot of space, just like your eyes and lips and hands, right. So if you don't have a good map of those, you're going to cramp. You're gonna you know, get all that, you know, shin splints stuff going on. And you're going to have like knee issues. I've seen SI joint issues from it, right? It has somebody I'm like, hey, walk down and back and there, si there, right? One might be a little bit locked up. And I'll be like, okay, let's, let's do a little bit of ankle movement, right with your right ankle and do a little bit of, you know, toe polls and things like that. And they'll be like, okay, okay, this is kind of weird, but I'm like, Okay, now I'll come down back to it. That feels so much better.
Ari Gronich 57:19
I know. It's crazy. It's crazy. I took four tenths of a second off of somebodies track time. Yeah. In under 10 minutes by working on his feet and ankles. Yeah. Like you're you're running. You're landing on them all day long, four or five hours a day. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So don't you think that they should be worked on and he had a foot thing? This is where I find I find things really funny. Yeah, leads now getting in the weeds. He had a foot thing. He didn't like his foot being touched or seen or whatever. I'm like, I don't care. I'm like, Can you can you live with it for this moment? Right. And he did he put up with it. And he went, oh my god. Yeah. I never felt like this. One of my other guys like Atlanta. Braves pitcher, right. Retired. I work on his feet. And we're at a PGA Show like PGA Merchandise show. Yeah, right. And I get done working on his feet. He said it felt like a bullet hole had gone through his foot. Oh, right. He comes back the next day. And gets another session. He said, If I had this when I was still playing, it would have added 15 years to my career. Now if you're a baseball player, your pitcher on? He was Braves during the legacy pitching dynasty. Yeah, right with maddix and Glavine and smalls. And I mean, he was one of those Yeah. And add 15 years to that career.
Kris Gieske 58:57
Oh, man,
Ari Gronich 58:58
in just the money that they make, you know, if you're an athlete out there, millions, the stuff that somebody can do for you that's outside of the box of what happens inside your organization is incredible. Yeah, like the ability that you have once you go outside of your organization, and find a therapist who really knows their stuff, right is that YouTube could be a world champion. You know, really, I mean, that's, that's the thing. And for you who are just somebody who's having so much trouble getting out of your car, I use this analogy a lot, getting out of your car, walking down a parking lot and through an entire grocery store. Without being in pain. If that's you, this is the kind of treatment that you really want to get. Not taking the pills not getting addicted to the opiates. Yeah, and staying with the painful issues that you have. Right, but really getting some kind of therapy that that is good and one day, and and really it's up to you guys a lot to push this on to your senators and governors and so on is one day it's covered. It's not an extra expense, because you're seeing a specialist. Right? It's just included in, we want you to be healthy, because that's the way of being an American is to be healthy country. The Healthy military. Yeah,
Kris Gieske 1:00:27
right. Absolutely.
Ari Gronich 1:00:29
I want one last thing, because you work in the military line I get stuck on on wanting to change systems. You know, this is this is the premise of my whole show is we have these systems that are broken, that aren't working, and we want to shift them and change them. So yeah. You know, on the military front, the military doesn't train their at their soldiers to be injury free. Right? They don't have corrective exercise specialists working with them during boot camp. No, right? These are places that we can make a difference. So if you're working with VA, if you're working with that, so if you're working with PTSD, if you're working with any of these organizations, if you're a senator or governor, you know, this are the people that you want on your team. Because we don't want our vets but let me ask you a question. Do you think that it's easy these days to find somebody who could put on a hook sack right now and have it 10 miles through a jungle? Oh, man. Right. Yeah. And then run away from somebody and still have enough where with all and energy and physical, you know, ability to be a soldier? Yeah, this is one of the things like for public safety, and the safety of a nation to not have good health. Right, and to not be physically able to function. Yeah, to where you can put on a sack. You know, that's 40 to 70 pounds. Yes. And, you know, walk around through a jungle all day long.
Kris Gieske 1:02:12
Yeah. we've,
Ari Gronich 1:02:14
we've got an issue that we have as a national security issue, the health care of our nation.
Kris Gieske 1:02:20
Yeah, absolutely. Health care, and then, you know, looking at, you know, the military boot camps to bring these kids in, right? You're not dealing with the same animal that you had 1960 right. Now, you're dealing with a much bigger animal, right? And then you're asking them to run, you know, three to five miles right? out the gate. You know, and you got some guy huffing and puffing, I mean, his, you know, body just cannot take that punishing it. Right. And, and a little bit of vetting, there's pry needed, but you know, as well as there's no really poster chain involvement in any of the exercises, right? Everything is anterior, everything's push ups, everything's set up. So everything's, you know, hump and everything is
Ari Gronich 1:03:01
said, that means everything is in the front of your body, not in the back of your body. So posterior is back to your body. anterior is the front of your body. So just in case, yeah, you know, people didn't, didn't know what that match that, right. So pushing versus pulling, right. So everything is a push movement in the military. And most of the instabilities come from not having a strong posterior. So when you do balance, those kinds of exercise routines, you get people moving forward. Right. Yeah. And eventually, they end up looking at their toes when they're 80 years old. Yeah. Right. Because they can't raise their body. Yeah. And you know, you've all seen old soldiers. Yeah. Right. And they, they're, they started here, you know, yeah. But then when you see them, they're either here, or they're down further, or they're arching down, because that's what happens to the body when you only are working,
Kris Gieske 1:04:02
that anterior, here, everything starts pulling. And then another, you know, if you're talking about, you know, national emergency, you know, I'm seeing, you know, kids nowadays, their posture is horrible. You know, the way they're sitting and all that is, again, in the front of the body, everything's anterior. Right? So they have the zoom class, right? That they're on, and they get on their tablet, right? And again, their phone and their text, and they're always in this position, right? And you see him like this. And then you see their feet turned out and they're in their knees out a call to no asset or syndrome. They have no but they have no back most everything is just so crunched forward. And that just brings out a whole other host of issues and movement problems and patterns that come into fruition later in life toy. They're like, Oh, this is in pain all the time.
Ari Gronich 1:04:52
Right. And you know, the thing that they don't understand is happening is when they're going forward like that. You're dying. for him is here, your heart is here, your lungs are here, and you start crunching these down, you don't have as much deep ability to breathe deep, your organs start getting crunched on and squeezed on and they can't function as readily and availably as normal function would be, right. So, you know, everything is connected everything. And we really need to get that, you know, both for our physical bodies for the systems that we create, the environment we create, everything is connected. There's a great show series that I just watched on Netflix called connected. And it's all about how the world is interconnected. And it's a great series if anybody gets an opportunity to watch as you know, because it literally goes through like how the Sahara how the sand in the Sahara blows with the wind? And, and is the fertilizer basically has the nutrients and the whatever to grow all the plants in the Amazon. Oh, right. In I mean, South America, sand from here blows to there. How does the sand also help to stop hurricanes? You know, I mean, the interconnectivity of the universe and of the world of the earth of nature is so vast, and when we screw with it, like we've done in so many ways, and especially the last hundred years, when we screw with nature, nature will screw back with us. And we've been getting the hard end of the screwing at this point. So is the money more important? Or is the screwing we're getting more important? Because we're allowing the screwing to happen for the game of money, which is something we made up in our heads, right? Something it's not so real, right? So I'm just giving you guys a little bit to think about your, you know what, we're going to end the call, you gave some great tips, Kris. Awesome. Where can people get a hold of you if they wanted to fly out to Colorado, and enjoy the snow and beautiful mountainair.
Kris Gieske 1:07:15
So you can go to www.kgmaxfitness.com, it's kgmaxfitness.com. And you can find me there you can find our work and my phone and all that to schedule if you want.
Ari Gronich 1:07:30
Sounds good. Thank you so much for being here. Kris, this has been another great episode of create a new tomorrow. I'm your host, Ari Gronich. And you know, just remember, the world is interconnected. What we do makes a difference. And what we don't do makes a difference. And the things that we know are that our mind creates our movement, both emotionally, as well as physically. And if you want your mind and your emotions and your body to work in sync, and work more effectively and efficiently. Work on those visual keys. You know, work on that direction, work on your balance. You know, I have my son doing these great balance exercises like walking heel to toe on a straight line of the tile. He's six years old, we're building his balance up after a head trauma. Yeah, right. And it's difficult. You can try it. Go, you know, look at a line on your floor, a grout line or something like that. And heel to toe and try to walk on that straight line without falling over. And then
Kris Gieske 1:08:46
heel to toe. Looking forward, turning your head if that's too easy.
Ari Gronich 1:08:51
Exactly. See, again, some great, great tips. Anyway, thank you so much for being here. And this has been another episode we are out. Thank you for listening to this podcast. I appreciate all you do to create a new tomorrow for yourself and those around you. If you'd like to take this information further and are interested in joining a community of like minded people who are all passionate about activating their vision for a better world. Go to the website, create a new tomorrow.com and find out how you can be part of making a bigger difference. I have a gift for you just for checking it out and look forward to seeing you take the leap and joining our private paid mastermind community. Until then, see you on the next episode.
