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Today we break down why “influencer marketing” (renting audience) is losing to creator-based marketing (renting skill at making viral content) — and how to run it like a system. Guest Robert Lukoszko, founder of Stormy AI, shows how their agent finds creators, pulls contacts, sends DMs/emails, follows up, and even negotiates packages before you step in. We get tactical on budgets, pricing, UGC hiring, TikTok vs YouTube strategy, measurement, and building a compounding “surface-area” of content across the web.

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Guest

• Website: stormy.ai 
• Robert Lukoszko — LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/karmedge 
• X (Twitter): @Karmedge 

What you’ll learn

• Creator vs Influencer marketing: Why FYP-driven platforms reward great content over big followings — and how to “rent” creators’ skill instead of their audience.
• The scalable workflow: Brief → research → outreach (DM/email) → qualify → negotiate packages → handoff to human for final approval.
• TikTok UGC machine: Hire 1–3 full-time UGC creators posting 2–3 shorts per day; test cheaply, then double down on breakout templates.
• YouTube packages that work: Three-video bundles over ~6 weeks build trust & lift; use retainers for your top performers.
• Negotiation scripts that convert: Lead with “Paid collaboration” in subject/first line, anchor on value, and offer volume/retainer discounts.
• Pricing reality check: Typical UGC test pieces land in the ~$20–$100/video range (many sweet-spot wins at $20–$50) for micro/nano creators; salaried UGC in EU markets often $1–2k/mo part-time depending on output and quality.
• Compounding effects: Viral videos spawn follower videos; repeated sightings increase creator reply-rates and lower CPAs.
• Agents as team members: Why modern stacks look like small pods of engineers orchestrating many narrow agents (research, outreach, follow-ups, CRM status, stop-conditions).

Chapters & Timestamps

• 00:00:00 — Cold open: “Stop influencer marketing. Start creator marketing.”
• 00:01:17 — Sponsor: Graph.com (AI dashboards from plain English)
• 00:02:26 — Guest intro: Robert (Founder, Stormy AI) + why YouTube/TikTok matter
• 00:03:49 — The pain of manual outreach and why Stormy exists
• 00:05:55 — How Stormy’s research agent finds/qualifies creators (views, recency, fit)
• 00:08:15 — TikTok/UGC playbook: daily shorts, test → double down
• 00:10:04 — It’s a numbers game: post volume & breakout templates
• 00:12:00 — “Surface area” strategy: AI pulls from the open web; brand search as moat
• 00:15:03 — Validating features with viral demos before shipping
• 00:17:02 — Building in public: rapid iteration with creator feedback
• 00:18:00 — Outreach mechanics: DMs, scraping bios/Linktree, multi-source emails
• 00:20:06 — Copy that converts: lead with “Paid collaboration” + template tips
• 00:21:46 — Scale metrics: ~200 messages/day across rotated inboxes; reply-rate ranges
• 00:23:29 — Brand effects: recognition boosts replies; upfront vs affiliate by stage
• 00:26:01 — Compounding virality: trend templates, creator social proof
• 00:29:03 — Pricing: $20–$100 UGC tests; sweet spot $20–$50; EU part-time $1–2k/mo
• 00:29:53 — Agentic negotiations: packages, volume, follow-ups, human handoff
• 00:31:04 — Guardrails: budget anchoring, stop-conditions, funny “PayPal link” story
• 00:35:05 — Toolbelt of agents: research, outreach, CRM updates, payments, bulk sends
• 00:36:01 — Architecture: many narrow agents > one monolith
• 00:37:51 — Future: fewer humans in the loop; AI influencers; approvals as human role
• 00:39:16 — Can businesses run themselves? Media = growth flywheel
• 00:41:11 — Hiring philosophy: engineer-heavy teams (Gary Tan advice)
• 00:43:46 — Wrap + where to find Robert & Stormy

Playbooks & templates (steal these)

Outreach subject lines (email/DM first line):

• “Paid collaboration: {Brand} x {CreatorName} — 3-video package”
• “Paid promo + affiliate: {Brand} (fast approvals, simple brief)”

First message (short DM/email):
“Hey {Name} — we’re {Brand}, a {1-line what you do}. Paid collaboration: 1 test short this week (${offer}) + option to extend to 3-video bundle over 6 weeks. You keep creative control; we provide brief + examples. Interested? If yes, quick details + rate card?”

Negotiation levers: volume (3-pack → 6-pack), multi-month cadence (1/mo), affiliate top-ups on performance, first-video discount, creative templates proven to hit.

UGC hiring filter: Look for micro/nano creators (10k–50k) with at least one breakout (e.g., 500k+ views) in your niche; they have the “spark” but are still rationally priced. (Stormy highlights this pattern in search/fit scoring.) 

Key quotes (pull-ready)

• “Creator marketing rents skill at making viral content — not just an audience.”
• “It’s a numbers game twice: mass outreach, then mass posting — let the winners emerge.”
• “Lead with ‘Paid collaboration’ so creators instantly know there’s budget.”
• “Templates win. When a format pops, clone it and scale with more creators.”

Sponsor

Graphed.com — Connect your SaaS/GA4/Shopify/data warehouse → ask in plain English → get dashboards & ad-hoc analysis; share with clients or your team in one click. (Free 10-seat trial for listeners — link in description.)