I want to be a voice for the invisibles.  (Leslie Nease)

What do a Survivor contestant, deconstructing mama of four bigs, former Christian radio broadcaster, life and faith transitions coach, author and newly-minted podcast hostess have in common?  They are all named Leslie Nease, our podcast guest this week.

Leslie is quick-witted, well-spoken and passionate about coming alongside of people in their ever-evolving spiritual journeys and making sure they feel seen, heard and absolutely not alone.  She wants to make the "invisibles" (those of us who are afraid of speaking out about our deconstructing journey for whatever reason) find our voice again, the way she has found her own.

On this episode, we explore all the ways we have been shut down, silenced, or spiritually bypassed and discover why it's so important that we discover who we are and why our stories matter (and why it's good that we begin to tell them).

Leslie also gives us some really good tips about what's at the root of having a long-term, healthy relationship with your kids, especially one that has ridden all the religious and spiritual rollercoasters that come along with deconstructing toxic faith systems.

This one is a goodie, if we say so ourselves.

You can find Leslie at the following:

Instagram:  @leslienease

Website:  www.leslieneasecoaching.com

Podcast:  Honoring the Journey

*trigger warning*

“My passion is to have a kinder and gentler world for our little people in faith spaces.” (Matt Shantz)

Meet Matt Shantz, husband, dad, social worker in child and adolescent mental health, and spiritual mentor. Matt is our podcast guest this week and we are so grateful to have had one of the most complicated, difficult and needed conversations we've had on the podcast to date.

This week, we tackle the subject of spanking and we do so in a way that will be informative and passionate, full of stories and science, but also allow room for both the heartbreak and hope.

We discuss the trauma of spanking in all categories: physical, spiritual, emotional, relational and even sexual.

We share stories (even our own) of harm and also of repair and touch on the way our view of God might be behind how we view the healthy "discipline" of our kids.

We chat in depth about the research surrounding spanking, what it says and perhaps why the "Christian church" has been at odds with what's been found (i.e., why do many high-control religions deem spanking as necessary discipline?).

Lastly, we move into a posture of hope for a kinder and gentler future. What can we do instead of resort to violence with our kids? Why is that so important? How can we repair our relationships with ourselves and our kids when we blow it? What should we do if we've been either the victim of spanking or the perpetrator of it?

We are so incredibly grateful to Matt for his transparency, vulnerability and passion when it comes to this subject and also recognize that this might be incredibly difficult for some of you to listen to for a host of reasons.

It's why we are so glad there is someone like Matt who provides spiritual care and mentorship for wholeness, embracing a client-centered and compassionate approach. Matt's focus is on integrating and supporting spirituality, nurturing emotional wellness, respecting individual beliefs and experiences. Through active listening and non-judgmental guidance, Matt hopes to empower individuals to find meaning, strength, faith and hope.

You can find his good work at the following:

Website: mattshantz.org

Instagram: @shantzmatt

I’m trying to be in alignment with what I understand what the true principles of love to actually be. (Stephanie Stalvey)

The passionate and kind Stephanie Stalvey is our guest this week on the podcast. Stephanie is a deconstructing mama of one, high school art teacher, and painter writer and comic book artist extraordinaire. She loves music and animals and going to the beach when its cold.

She's  been irresistibly drawn to making comics since she was a kid. Comics are intimate, they are rock and roll, they’re visual prose that gives both the writer and reader a highly personal experience of the story.

She's currently  working on a long form memoir that focuses on her experiences as a mother, a lover, and 90s church kid.  In her work, she reflects on coming of age inside the evangelical church and her subsequent reckoning with religious and spiritual ideas as an adult.

On this episode, just like in her comics, you will hear Stephanie's portrait of a continual pursuit to understand herself, her ideological inheritance, her relationships,  her God, and her place in this wild, strange, sacred world we all share.

You can find the Stephanie in these spaces:

Instagram:  @stephanie.stalvey.artist

Website:  www.stephaniestalvey.com

Patreon Community: www.patreon.com/stephaniestalvey

“God is like a fort, strong and secure with walls that are mighty and safe. Inside, there are hidden places to hold you when you’re scared or need a quiet place to rest.” What is God Like (Matthew Paul Turner & Rachel Held Evans)

The spunky and amazing Matthew Paul Turner is our guest this week on the podcast. Matthew is a dad of three, New York Time's best-selling children's author, and accomplished photographer and journalist.

Matthew's fiery, yet gentle spirit and his passion to help others belong to and be completely themselves and to understand the unconditional love of God is contagious.

On this episode, you will hear wild stories of burning Barbies and tears in parking lots, guns hidden in pulpits and unforeseen joy and healing. Matthew speaks of his long journey into deconstructing his faith, how his gift of writing children's books unfolded, and the gift of belonging that he has given to himself and now is pouring into others, especially his children.

You will find yourself laughing and crying all within moments of each other as you listen, but mostly you will find yourself, period.

Don't miss out!

You can find the Matthew in these spaces:

Instagram:  @matthewpaulturner

Facebook:  @matthewpaulturner

Website:  www.matthewpaulturner.com

Substack: @matthewpaulturner

“You aren't going to mess up your kids' theology." (Sarah Swartzendruber)
 
The brilliant Sarah Swartzendruber is our guest this week on the podcast. Sarah is a mama, pastor, kid's faith curriculum creator (Zippee) and cohort leader for Parenting After Deconstruction. 

Most of the parents who reach out to her know what they don't want to teach their kids, but they have no idea what they do want for their families. Sarah's passion is helping parents in deconstruction create healthy spiritual practices for their kids that answer the question, "What now? How can we do this well?"

On this episode, we unpack the "tricky tightrope" of sorting through our own faith and spirituality while trying to raise our kids and Sarah works to empower us with the freedom to reimagine what parenting our kids with a healthy spirituality might look like. We also chat about where to start when it comes to what we pass along to our kids and you might be surprised, not surprised. We answer these three questions:

1. We said it in our intro, your quote, “You aren’t going to mess up your kids’ theology.” But what if we feel like we will and we are?

2. How do we unwind our own fears from how we interact with our children and their faith journey?

3. What are some ways that we can meet our kids in their curiosity about God, heaven, Jesus, etc.

Sarah is brilliant, imaginative and funny, while at the same time, a kick-butt theologian who will help you to feel like you've got what it takes to walk this "tricky tightrope" in confidence and clarity, but mostly in compassion and curiosity. Don't miss out!

You can find the Sarah in these spaces:

Instagram: @parentingafterdeconstruction

Website: www.parentingafterdeconstuction.com 

“Self-discovery is the goal. Self-compassion is the vibe." (Trisha Wilkerson)

We start off Season Five with Trisha Wilkerson as our guest this week on the podcast. And it's really good! Trisha is a deconstructing mama, author, former pastor's wife turned certified Nutrition Coach. She works with individuals and groups, guiding a behavioral change process towards increasing overall wellness. Her style is wholeheartedness, with curiosity and gentle challenges.

Trisha's journey in Transformation, Healing, and Holistic Wellness began in the Church, where she learned to listen and love. 25 years in the Evangelical Church taught me much about walking with brokenness and pain and learning how to heal. She learned how to lead people, counsel, write, and coach.

But along the way, she began to discover uncomfortable truths about extreme religion and the trauma that results from the disconnection from our bodies and, in all honesty, disconnection from ourselves. She also researched the way diet culture and extreme religion are intertwined and how we can untangle the harmful messages of judgment and shame and move into a space of compassionate curiosity and deep connection with our bodies.

On this episode, our fascinating conversation leads us into the murky waters of diet culture and how extreme religion was the perfect space for all the harmful messages surrounding the body and the constant striving for perfection. We also discover new ways of engaging with food, our "already good" bodies and the recovery of souls along the way. This time around, we find out, not what we need to be teaching our kids about faith, God and themselves, but what what they have to teach us.

Trisha is kind, gentle and passionate and views journeying with others now as such an adventure– with not one destination! Embracing mystery has emboldened her to be curious and love people with more gentleness and dignity. Advocating for people has meant that she step into their stories with them and together seek change for their individual growth and healing.

And pretty soon, she will have a book out called "Already Good" How Diet Culture and Religion Exploit Our Desires For Worthiness. Not sure about you, but we can't wait to get it.

You can find the Trisha in these spaces:

Instagram: @trisharwilkerson

Website (her Wellness Coaching practice): www.trishawilkerson.com

“Chronic trauma can overwhelm our internal coping resources. Trauma disrupts the same system that regulates our body’s stress response causing a hyperactive fight-or-flight reaction. It’s not just all in our head. It’s in our bodies too. (Brittany Moses)

 Guess what??? The guests on our podcasts this week are...drum roll please... us.

We are closing out Season Four with a conversation with just the two of us.

We dive deep into THE STRUGGLE to heal our spiritual trauma and how our bodies have suffered and how reconnecting with our them is a messy, but necessary and beautiful business and vital to our overall journey to heal. The struggle is real, friends. Truly.

We even chat about hell and Christmas and how we are finding ways to resist (both internally and externally) the messages we've received about those two things, plus a whole bunch of others.

We love having our podcast and we are so grateful that you would take the time to listen. We will be back with a full and amazing line-up in just three months.

You can find the two of us at the following spaces: 

LIZZ ENNS PETTERS:

Instagram: @lizzennspetters
Facebook: Lizz Enns Petters, the Deconstructed Mama
Website: elizabethpetters.com

ESTHER JOY GOETZ:

Instagram: @estherthedollymama
Facebook: Esther, the Dolly Mama
Website: estherjoygoetz.com

“Admitting we could be wrong about the things we are most convinced of, that are so fundamental to who we are, is painful and becoming someone new is scary.” (an excerpt from Godbreathed, Zack Hunt)

Zack Hunt (sometimes known as Zaack Hunt around the internet, a deconstructing dad, former pastor, prolific author and BBQ magician extraordinaire, is our guest this week. 

Zack has spent the last decade writing about the interplay of faith and politics and when not doing that good work, he can be found traveling and trying out new restaurants with his wife, playing with their two little girls, and sneaking out onto his back porch trying to smoke the perfect rack of ribs on his beloved smoker.

After we dive into Zack's never-ending and evolving faith journey, we dive into the space of how he got to the place of "I might be wrong," and where that wild idea that has taken him.

We speak about all kinds of fancy theological terms like exegesis and "sola scriptura," but in the end of the day, we share stories about fear and grief and walking this very nuanced and difficult road of parenting in this new found space and how LOVE is the beginning and end of the story.

Zack's humor will have you laughing and his vulnerability will have you crying.  And you will find out why it matter so much that we are all God-breathed. Plus, you will find out why the heck most of his internet spaces are Zaack.  Listen in.

You can find Za(a)ck at the following spaces:

Instagram:  @zaackhunt
Facebook:  Zack Hunt (but if you are searching, look for @zaackhunt)
Twitter (not X according to Zack):  @zaackhunt
Website:   zackhunt.net 

“My love, God is here when you choose goodness and are living from your heart. When you follow the path of love, God is with you from the start. And God is there when you mess up, if you make a choice that isn’t best. It  doesn’t mean you’re bad; it just means you’re human-like all the rest.” (an excerpt from My Love, God is Everywhere)

Victoria Robb Powers and Cameron Vickrey, also known as the Reverend Mamas, are our guests this week on the podcast.  Victoria is the Senior Pastor at Royal Lane Baptist Church in Dallas, Texas, and is the first female to pastor a Baptist church in the DFW Metroplex. She is a graduate of Baylor University and Brite Divinity School at TCU in Fort Worth. Victoria lives with her husband and three children in Lake Highlands. She loves to read, write, preach and teach.

Cameron  is a graduate of Furman University and Wake Forest University School of Divinity. She currently works for Fellowship Southwest, sharing stories of ministry and mission along the US--Mexico border and advocating for migrants. She is also passionate about public education, and co-founded a nonprofit called RootEd, galvanizing parents of public school children to tell their stories and become advocates. Cameron lives in San Antonio with her family. Her free time is spent with her kids; wishing she were a gardener; teaching Sunday school to middle schoolers, and reading lots of books.

On this episode, our conversation leads us to the deep questions of life and especially from kids about who God is and where God is and when God is.  We chat about subjects from soap operas and healthy theology to original sin vs original blessing to how reparenting ourselves while we parent our own kids is deeply healing.

Their children's book, My Love, God is Everywhere, is a new favorite of ours and both Lizz and Esther have experienced its healing nature for us as grown ups (I think they both use it devotionally) and also the beautiful message it has for our kids.

At one point in the episode, which you have to listen to find out, both Lizz and Esther had their pens out frantically writing something down that changed their perspectives forever.

If you want to make room for your own child-like soul to breathe and heal, this is a must-listen to episode. Like seriously, folks.

You can find the Reverend Mamas and their book in these spaces:

Instagram:  @thereverendmamas

More about Their Book:  My Love, God is Everywhere
 

"I would hope never to feel so confident in my theology as not to be willing to correct a wrong view once presented with compelling evidence." Chad Bahl (Deconstructing Hell)

Chad Bahl is our podcast guest this week. Chad is a theologian, step-dad and author. Chad is also a kind, humble, deep, brilliant soul who is on a personal mission to seek the whole truth no matter what the cost.

On this episode, after we find out one of Chad's fun and super unique hobbies and his surprising day job, we take a deep dive into Open and Relationship Theology (think and un-controlling, loving and co-partnering kind of God), the problem of evil, but mostly the horrific and toxic theology over Eternal Conscious Torment (otherwise known as Hell as many of us grew up understanding it).

We also talk about our the book that Chad compiled and edited that Lizz and Esther had a chance to be a part of called Deconstructing Hell and how each one of us got to the place where, as we like to say in these parts, "hell is OFF the table." And then, especially how this "hell" thing plays out in parenting (hint, it's awful).

This conversation will pretty much get you thinking out of the box and free you from that box that has kept you afraid and small. Because, being pushed by fear is terrible, but being led by love is something entirely beautiful.

You can find Chad in these spaces:

Facebook:  Chad Bahl

Facebook Group:  Deconstructing Hell

Instagram:  @bahlchad

Website:   thelaytheologian.com