Deep Transformation

Ep. 175 (Part 2 of 3) | Longtime spiritual practitioner, gifted teacher, Tibetan Buddhist lama, and developmental psychology specialist Kimberley Lafferty integrates contemporary psychology and wisdom tradition in this lively, luminous conversation about the process of awakening, the evolution of ethics, and the extraordinary capacities that come online as we mature into later stages of development. What do developmental perspectives have to add to our understanding of human nature and to spiritual practice? Our meaning-making shifts radically as we develop, Kimberley says, and because of that our reality itself shifts. This is why communicating with people with very different points of view can fail so miserably—one person’s reality is simply not the same as the next person’s reality. We need to discern, what is their meaning-making reality in this moment? What is ours?

Throughout, Kimberley grounds the discussion in practical, real-life scenarios; she also shares intriguing research on later stage development that has found that as we mature, our senses evolve: our hearing evolves to deep attunement; our seeing evolves to witnessing, our capacity of touch evolves to embody presence. It’s exciting and inspiring to see the road ahead, to acquire new insights and tools to improve communication across cultural (and age) divides, to have the concept of bodhicitta unpacked so deftly and common misperceptions about emptiness corrected—and to witness Kimberley’s wise and zesty approach to life: “What connects us all is our luminous, aware consciousness,” she says, “and if we can lean into the messiness, I think we can find our way through.” Recorded October 3, 2024.

“If we have no traditional spiritual boundaries to teach our children, we end up raising narcissists.”

• Ethics involve intention: looking into the mind at the moment of intention (00:53)
• How to explain misuse and abuse of power in a spiritual organization? (04:18)
• What is missing for many teachers and healers is ethical training (11:11)
• How do warrior ethics make sense? Spirituality at an ethnocentric developmental stage (12:58)
• Misunderstanding emptiness: the emptiness of ethics; there is no ethics (17:20)
• A spiritual tradition can be complemented by modern understanding & practices—what do we need to update? (19:21)
• The importance of a developmental understanding and spiritual education (20:46)
• We need to teach our children that what they do matters (23:09)
• The feeling of deep belonging that comes with a lineage, belonging to a mystical family, having them at your back (25:09)
• What do developmental perspectives have to add to our understanding of human nature and to contemplative practices? (28:16)
• The connection between spiritual experiences and later stages of development: meaning-making radically shifts throughout our life span—because of that our reality itself shifts (31:52)
• What stage is presenting right now? In me. In you. In others? (33:58)
• Leveraging the strengths of each perspective and stage (37:29)

• Kimberley Lafferty’s website: The Confluence Experience (Education, Community, Experiences)
• 12-month living immersion in the STAGES matrix with Terri O’Fallon & Kimberley Lafferty
• The Association for Spiritual Integrity (ASI)
• Vajrayana Buddhism
• Huston Smith, The World’s Religions
• His Holiness the Dalai Lama, The Art of Happiness: A Handbook for Living
• Ken Wilber’s Integral Theory
• Dan Brown, Buddhist meditation teacher and author
• Abraham Maslow, Toward a Psychology of Being
• Roger Walsh, Essential Spirituality: The 7 Central Practices to Awaken Heart and Mind
• Brian Daizen Victoria, Zen at War
• The A. H. Almaas Wisdom Series (Deep Transformation podcast series)

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Kimberley Theresa Lafferty is a seasoned teacher-practitioner specializing in constructive developmental psychology and Indo-Tibetan Vajrayana. She leads multi-year, private spiritual education cohorts with the Confluence Experience, and co-leads, with Terri O’Fallon, the penultimate Minds I year-long developmental course of Stages International. She is an active Board member for the Association for Spiritual Integrity. Kimberley is also a wife and mother to a young son, living in a remote valley of the North Cascades of North America which deeply impacts her worldview and practice.

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Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos and Show Notes by Heidi Mitchell

Ep. 174 (Part 1 of 3) | Longtime spiritual practitioner, gifted teacher, Tibetan Buddhist lama, and developmental psychology specialist Kimberley Lafferty integrates contemporary psychology and wisdom tradition in this lively, luminous conversation about the process of awakening, the evolution of ethics, and the extraordinary capacities that come online as we mature into later stages of development. What do developmental perspectives have to add to our understanding of human nature and to spiritual practice? Our meaning-making shifts radically as we develop, Kimberley says, and because of that our reality itself shifts. This is why communicating with people with very different points of view can fail so miserably—one person’s reality is simply not the same as the next person’s reality. We need to discern, what is their meaning-making reality in this moment? What is ours?

Throughout, Kimberley grounds the discussion in practical, real-life scenarios; she also shares intriguing research on later stage development that has found that as we mature, our senses evolve: our hearing evolves to deep attunement; our seeing evolves to witnessing, our capacity of touch evolves to embody presence. It’s exciting and inspiring to see the road ahead, to acquire new insights and tools to improve communication across cultural (and age) divides, to have the concept of bodhicitta unpacked so deftly and common misperceptions about emptiness corrected—and to witness Kimberley’s wise and zesty approach to life: “What connects us all is our luminous, aware consciousness,” she says, “and if we can lean into the messiness, I think we can find our way through.” Recorded October 3, 2024.

“Applying a developmental understanding and developmental education is essential to any situation that we have.”

• Introducing Kimberley Lafferty, teacher-practitioner specializing in developmental psychology and Indo-Tibetan Buddhism (01:02)
• What drew Kimberley into Buddhism? Suffering! And an awakening experience (02:36)
• The Dalai Lama’s path is what spoke to Kimberley’s feeling of losing her compass and Integral Theory kept her grounded in modernity (07:11)
• The 3 interpenetrating principal paths of Tibetan Buddhism: ethics, bodhicitta (the path of the warrior heart), and wisdom itself (09:17)
• Unpacking the concept of bodhicitta (13:54)
• Metacognition: an ability we grow into in the later stages of ego development (16:52)
• The richness of Tibetan Buddhism begins with the understanding that everything changes (21:37)
• How do kindness and compassion follow from a realization of emptiness? (25:50)
• There is emptiness and there is Clear Light, they are not the same (27:09)
• If emptiness is the canvas and karma is the paint: how do I repaint for the future? (31:08)
• Ethics and karma: everything we think, say, and do is the material cause for the next moment of our reality (32:54)
• Ethical training starts with be kind, do no harm, because God (or Santa) is watching (35:00)
• As we evolve, our ethics become more subtle and expand to include all people and the responsibility of becoming a light in the world (36:23)
• Stepping into our divinity, our gifts and creativity (41:09)
• Vajrajana ethics invite us to think about who is doing the giving, the recipient, and the gift (43:35)

• Kimberley Lafferty’s website: The Confluence Experience (Education, Community, Experiences)
• 12-month living immersion in the STAGES matrix with Terri O’Fallon & Kimberley Lafferty
• The Association for Spiritual Integrity (ASI)
• Vajrayana Buddhism
• Huston Smith, The World’s Religions
• His Holiness the Dalai Lama, The Art of Happiness: A Handbook for Living
• Ken Wilber’s Integral Theory
• Dan Brown, Buddhist meditation teacher and author
• Abraham Maslow, Toward a Psychology of Being
• Roger Walsh, Essential Spirituality: The 7 Central Practices to Awaken Heart and Mind
• Brian Daizen Victoria, Zen at War
• The A. H. Almaas Wisdom Series (Deep Transformation podcast series)

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Kimberley Theresa Lafferty is a seasoned teacher-practitioner specializing in constructive developmental psychology and Indo-Tibetan Vajrayana. She leads multi-year, private spiritual education cohorts with the Confluence Experience, and co-leads, with Terri O’Fallon, the penultimate Minds I year-long developmental course of Stages International. She is an active Board member for the Association for Spiritual Integrity. Kimberley is also a wife and mother to a young son, living in a remote valley of the North Cascades of North America which deeply impacts her worldview and practice.

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Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos and Show Notes by Heidi Mitchell

Ep. 173 (Part 2 of 2) | In this 8th dialogue in the A. H. Almaas Wisdom Series, Hameed Ali gives a clear, colorful description of the three stages we go through on the spiritual path: the journey to presence, the journey with presence, and the journey in presence. “There’s much more to the journey than just being free of suffering,” he says, “in the journey with presence, there’s a whole universe to discover—unexpectedly we find there is a whole realm of splendor, beauty, freedom, and liberation.” In the third journey, the journey in presence, the stage of actualization, we are swimming in the ocean of presence or we are the presence itself. Hameed relates how impeccability, strong and pure like stainless steel, is an important part of actualizing presence, embodying our essence in our daily lives. “The ‘I am’ can function in the world as a person,” he explains, “I can be the vastness, an infinite, black, luminous night, completely formless, but still walk in the street as a person.”

Hameed also talks about the “pearl beyond price”—the individuated self that brings a functional capacity to the isness, which is why it is of incomparable price—and the point of existence, point of light, or pure I-ness. He discusses the individuation of the soul and the realization that the nature of the soul is the nature of everything: this is the nondual experience. This dialogue is another treasure trove of spiritual transmission by Hameed—with humor, clarity, precision, and beautiful metaphor, his teachings, even as deeply profound and mysterious as they are, come as wonderful revelations for us to grasp onto, leading us forward on the inner journey home. Recorded January 3, 2025.

“Presence is the ground of all reality.”

• What is the I in ‘I am that’? A point of light, presence, existence (00:53)
• I-am-that are three different things (04:25)
• At some point, the point of light and the pearl beyond price become unified (06:56)
• The ego self is insecure: that’s why there is selfishness (09:04)
• With the realization of I am that, the “that” changes (12:30)
• The “I am” can function in the world as a person: I can be the vastness, formless & infinite, but still walk in the street as a person (14:01)
• In the source dimension, all people are nothing but organs of perception for the absolute (15:05)
• What brought Hameed back from the absolute? (17:46)
• Each teaching has their ultimate, but there is more than one ultimate (19:24)
• There’s much more to the journey than just being free of suffering (20:31)
• Ignorance never ends (21:26)
• Is there a best way to study spirituality? (22:57)
• The essentialization of the soul: recognizing that presence is our true nature, essence is a living consciousness (25:21)
• Realizing the ground of being: the nature of the soul is the nature of everything; this is the nondual experience (27:18)
• The issues that come up on the journey: psychodynamic, structural, existential & epistemological (33:17)

• A. H. Almaas (Hameed Ali), founder of The Ridhwan School, home of The Diamond Approach
• A. H. Almaas, The Inner Journey Home: Soul’s Realization of the Unity of Reality
• Dzogchen, a tradition of teachings in Indo-Tibetan Buddhism and Bön aimed at discovering and continuing in the ultimate ground of existence
• Advaita Vedanta
• A. H. Almaas, The Pearl Beyond Price: Integration of Personality into Being: An Object Relations Approach
• A. H. Almaas, The Point of Existence: Transformations of Narcissism in Self-Realization
• Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj, I Am That
• Isaac Newton, “I do not know what I may appear to the world…”
• A. H. Almaas, Luminous Night’s Journey: An Autobiographical Fragment

The A. H. Almaas Wisdom Series will generally follow the sequence of Hameed’s magnum opus, The Inner Journey Home (which John describes as psychoactive and spiritually, psychologically, and intellectually transformative), so listeners may want to get a copy of this book, to study and follow along on this exhilarating path of awakening.

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Hameed Ali (A. H. Almaas) was born in Kuwait in 1944. At the age of eighteen, he moved to the U.S. to study at the University of California in Berkeley. Hameed was working on his Ph.D. in physics when he reached a turning point in his life and destiny that led him to inquire into the psychological and spiritual aspects of human nature rather than the physical nature of the universe. He left the academic world to pursue an in-depth journey of inner discovery, applying his scientific precision and discipline to personal, experiential research. This included study with different teachers in different modalities, extensive reading, and continuous study of his own consciousness in an effort to understand the essential nature of human experience and reality in general.

Hameed’s process of exploration led to the creation of the Ridhwan School and, with his colleague Karen Johnson, resulted in the founding and unfoldment of the Diamond Approach. He is the author of 20 books, including Nondual Love: Awakening to the Loving Nature of Reality, Love Unveiled: Discovering the Essence of the Awakened Heart, Keys to the Enneagram: How to Unlock the Highest Potential of Every Personality Type, The Unfolding Now: Realizing Your True Nature through the Practice of Presence, and more.

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Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos and Show Notes by Heidi Mitchell

Ep. 172 (Part 1 of 2) | In this 8th dialogue in the A. H. Almaas Wisdom Series, Hameed Ali gives a clear, colorful description of the three stages we go through on the spiritual path: the journey to presence, the journey with presence, and the journey in presence. “There’s much more to the journey than just being free of suffering,” he says, “in the journey with presence, there’s a whole universe to discover—unexpectedly we find there is a whole realm of splendor, beauty, freedom, and liberation.” In the third journey, the journey in presence, the stage of actualization, we are swimming in the ocean of presence or we are the presence itself. Hameed relates how impeccability, strong and pure like stainless steel, is an important part of actualizing presence, embodying our essence in our daily lives. “The ‘I am’ can function in the world as a person,” he explains, “I can be the vastness, an infinite, black, luminous night, completely formless, but still walk in the street as a person.”

Hameed also talks about the “pearl beyond price”—the individuated self that brings a functional capacity to the isness, which is why it is of incomparable price—and the point of existence, point of light, or pure I-ness. He discusses the individuation of the soul and the realization that the nature of the soul is the nature of everything: this is the nondual experience. This dialogue is another treasure trove of spiritual transmission by Hameed—with humor, clarity, precision, and beautiful metaphor, his teachings, even as deeply profound and mysterious as they are, come as wonderful revelations for us to grasp onto, leading us forward on the inner journey home. Recorded January 3, 2025.

“The experience of presence is the defining experience of this path.”

• Introducing the 8th dialogue of the A. H. Almaas Wisdom Series, which focuses on the 15th chapter of The Inner Journey Home: “The Inner Journey” (00:56)
• Hameed outlines 3 stages of the inner journey: the journey to presence, the journey with presence, the journey in presence (03:00)
• First, the individual soul, structured through early life experience, begins (with practice) to recognize presence (09:50)
• Second is the journey with presence: working with the theory of holes before opening to spaciousness (12:22)
• The second stage is the fun part—when everything is completely new and somewhat miraculous (14:56)
• Experiencing the true potential of a human being: unexpectedly we find there is a whole realm of splendor, beauty, freedom & liberation (17:59)
• The third journey is actualization, when we are swimming in the ocean of presence or we are the presence itself: self-realization; the self is the presence (19:55)
• Impeccability: living in a way that is faithful to our true nature (21:12)
• Roger’s summary of Hameed’s points: presence is not static, learning about true nature is an ongoing, marvelous surprise, viewing spiritual maturation along a spectrum, and how realizing presence brings with it the deep desire that all beings experience it (23:34)
• In other traditions, there isn’t much discussion beyond the realization itself (25:56)
• The world is never “fixed” (28:55)
• Part of the soul’s maturation is individuation; personal-ness turns out to be a quality of presence (30:10)
• The pearl beyond price (the individuated self) is known also to the gnostics, the Sufis, the Taoists… it is protected by a fearsome monster (the ego) (33:28)
• The point of light, the point of existence, is pure “I-ness” (38:42)

• A. H. Almaas (Hameed Ali), founder of The Ridhwan School, home of The Diamond Approach
• A. H. Almaas, The Inner Journey Home: Soul’s Realization of the Unity of Reality
• Dzogchen, a tradition of teachings in Indo-Tibetan Buddhism and Bön aimed at discovering and continuing in the ultimate ground of existence
• Advaita Vedanta
• A. H. Almaas, The Pearl Beyond Price: Integration of Personality into Being: An Object Relations Approach
• A. H. Almaas, The Point of Existence: Transformations of Narcissism in Self-Realization
• Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj, I Am That
• Isaac Newton, “I do not know what I may appear to the world…”
• A. H. Almaas, Luminous Night’s Journey: An Autobiographical Fragment

The A. H. Almaas Wisdom Series will generally follow the sequence of Hameed’s magnum opus, The Inner Journey Home (which John describes as psychoactive and spiritually, psychologically, and intellectually transformative), so listeners may want to get a copy of this book, to study and follow along on this exhilarating path of awakening.

---

Hameed Ali (A. H. Almaas) was born in Kuwait in 1944. At the age of eighteen, he moved to the U.S. to study at the University of California in Berkeley. Hameed was working on his Ph.D. in physics when he reached a turning point in his life and destiny that led him to inquire into the psychological and spiritual aspects of human nature rather than the physical nature of the universe. He left the academic world to pursue an in-depth journey of inner discovery, applying his scientific precision and discipline to personal, experiential research. This included study with different teachers in different modalities, extensive reading, and continuous study of his own consciousness in an effort to understand the essential nature of human experience and reality in general.

Hameed’s process of exploration led to the creation of the Ridhwan School and, with his colleague Karen Johnson, resulted in the founding and unfoldment of the Diamond Approach. He is the author of 20 books, including Nondual Love: Awakening to the Loving Nature of Reality, Love Unveiled: Discovering the Essence of the Awakened Heart, Keys to the Enneagram: How to Unlock the Highest Potential of Every Personality Type, The Unfolding Now: Realizing Your True Nature through the Practice of Presence, and more.

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Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos and Show Notes by Heidi Mitchell

Ep. 171 (Part 2 of 2) | An emotionally powerful and deeply inspiring conversation with renowned embodiment and trauma educator Mark Walsh from the U.K. and Ukrainian psychologist and trauma trainer Kristina Obluchynska, where we learn about effective ways of treating trauma in the middle of an ongoing war, what trauma therapists are left holding, and how beautiful is the human spirit when it embraces right action. When Russia commenced its full-scale invasion of Ukraine three years ago, Mark went to Ukraine, located willing psychology students, educated them in body-oriented trauma therapy and training, and with Kristina and several other trainees co-founded Sane Ukraine, with the urgent mission of preventing an epidemic of trauma disorders in Ukraine. Beginning with applying trauma first aid and teaching resilience skills in places like the local railroad station where people were coming in from the front lines, and in bomb shelters, Kristina and several other psychologists have now educated thousands of people about trauma—active duty soldiers, veterans, survivors, wives of combatants, and first-line responders such as doctors, teachers, and social workers—and trained hundreds of them to become trauma trainers themselves. 

It is an honor to bear witness to Mark’s courageous actions and the humble heroism of Kristina and her team in the face of the devastation being leveled on Ukraine and Ukrainians. “We don’t grieve,” Kristina tells us, “because grief comes after safety. We don’t even use the word safe anymore,” she continues, “only relatively safe.” Mark points out that modern warfare is not just running around with guns—drones hunt civilians and if you move, they kill you. “Do we all have PTSD?” the soldiers ask. With Sane Ukraine, there is someone to answer their questions and teach them what they can do to help themselves and each other. Resilience comes from relationship—from connection to self, others, nature, and spirit. Does the concept of post traumatic growth even apply considering the intensity of this war? co-host Roger wonders. At the end of this extraordinary, heartfelt conversation, when asked what we could do to help, Kristina advises, “Help the army. We are talking here about healing, but what we really need is to survive.” Recorded January 9, 2025.

“It’s not reasonable for young women to be talking about mass rape and torture in dark bomb shelters . . . There’s a darkness that will be there perhaps forever.”

• Surviving Bucha (00:57)
• The pros and cons of group work (03:23)
• Does the concept of post traumatic growth apply in the intensity of this war? (05:40)
• Singing traditional songs helps foster the belief that we will survive this (09:50)
• How does Mark help trainers to find strength? Love people unconditionally and continually (12:31)
• There are actually less mental health problems in Ukraine than in the UK or the US (16:35)
• What has been most inspiring for Mark? The girls—and the purity of the work (17:24)
• The hardest thing? The huge grief (18:53)
• What are Kristina’s practices to keep sane? (20:05)
• What is the hardest for Kristina? The guilt is the worst (23:38)
• What is most inspiring for Kristina? The ability to do something for people who have been in the war (25:02)
• What is the difference between pre-Ukraine Mark and post-Ukraine Mark? (26:33)
• The pre-war Kristina and the post-war Kristina: everything is possible (28:12)
• How can listeners help? Sane Ukraine could use funding & educational support; professionals could offer tension & trauma releasing (TRE) trainings (31:39)
• Help the army: we are talking about healing, but what we really need is to survive (33:49)

• The Masha Fund, helping Ukrainian women overcome the psychological consequences of war
• Stuart Heller, The Dance of Becoming: Living Life as a Martial Art*
• Veteran Hub: providing peer-to peer veteran support, also serving those who are waiting for or who have lost loved ones in service
• The Association of Families of Defenders of Azovstal, the defenders of Mariupol united to accelerate the processes related to the return of soldiers home
• Mark Walsh, Kristina Obluchynska, co-founders, Sane Ukraine
• Mark Walsh, founder and CEO of Embodiment Unlimited
• Kristina Obluchynska can be contacted through Deep Transformation Podcast’s support email
• Mark Walsh, The Body in Coaching and Training: An Introduction to Embodied Facilitation,* Embodied Meditation: Mindfulness, the Body, and Daily Life*
• Mark’s Embodiment Coaching Podcast

Ep. 170 (Part 1 of 2) | An emotionally powerful and deeply inspiring conversation with renowned embodiment and trauma educator Mark Walsh from the U.K. and Ukrainian psychologist and trauma trainer Kristina Obluchynska, where we learn about effective ways of treating trauma in the middle of an ongoing war, what trauma therapists are left holding, and how beautiful is the human spirit when it embraces right action. When Russia commenced its full-scale invasion of Ukraine three years ago, Mark went to Ukraine, located willing psychology students, educated them in body-oriented trauma therapy and training, and with Kristina and several other trainees co-founded Sane Ukraine, with the urgent mission of preventing an epidemic of trauma disorders in Ukraine. Beginning with applying trauma first aid and teaching resilience skills in places like the local railroad station where people were coming in from the front lines, and in bomb shelters, Kristina and several other psychologists have now educated thousands of people about trauma—active duty soldiers, veterans, survivors, wives of combatants, and first-line responders such as doctors, teachers, and social workers—and trained hundreds of them to become trauma trainers themselves. 

It is an honor to bear witness to Mark’s courageous actions and the humble heroism of Kristina and her team in the face of the devastation being leveled on Ukraine and Ukrainians. “We don’t grieve,” Kristina tells us, “because grief comes after safety. We don’t even use the word safe anymore,” she continues, “only relatively safe.” Mark points out that modern warfare is not just running around with guns—drones hunt civilians and if you move, they kill you. “Do we all have PTSD?” the soldiers ask. With Sane Ukraine, there is someone to answer their questions and teach them what they can do to help themselves and each other. Resilience comes from relationship—from connection to self, others, nature, and spirit. Does the concept of post traumatic growth even apply considering the intensity of this war? co-host Roger wonders. At the end of this extraordinary, heartfelt conversation, when asked what we could do to help, Kristina advises, “Help the army. We are talking here about healing, but what we really need is to survive.” Recorded January 9, 2025.

“There is nothing that can prepare human psychology for modern warfare.”

• Introducing Mark Walsh, trauma trainer, author, founder & CEO of Embodiment Unlimited, and Kristina Obluchynska, clinical psychologist & trauma therapist, who together co-founded Sane Ukraine to provide training in trauma therapy and resilience skills to professionals, soldiers, combatants’ families and more (01:03)
• What compelled Mark to get involved in Ukraine and found Sane Ukraine? (02:33)
• How did Kristina get involved with Mark’s trauma training? (06:29)
• It requires 3 hours a day of body/mind practice to keep trainees in a state where they can learn something in between running to the bomb shelters (08:30)
• Trauma training started happening in person all over the place: Lviv is now the world’s most trauma-informed city (11:11)
• When Kristina and her team were invited to do combat resilience training, they were told, “We have 2,000 soldiers, please do something for them!” (13:11)
• Training psychologists, social workers, veterans, and wives of combatants (14:01)
• Elements of the 3-day training: tactic, tactic medicine, psychological resilience (15:42)
• Combatants ask, “Do we all have PTSD?” (17:44)
• What are the symptoms of trauma? (18:28)
• Nothing can prepare human psychology for modern warfare (20:06)
• Now it’s all about exhaustion, because the only way out is to be injured, or dead (22:55)
• Meaning is a resilience factor: Man’s Search for Meaning is the most sold book in Ukraine, ever (25:10)
• The importance of relationship: connection to self, to others, to the land, to spirit (28:08)
• Healing mountain trips for veterans have a dramatically positive effect (29:27)
• What are trauma therapists like Kristina and her team holding? (31:49)
• We don’t use the word safe anymore—only “relatively safe” (34:24)
• Using humor and selling trauma therapy (36:41)
• Using Stephen Porges’ traffic light model (39:09)

• Mark Walsh, Kristina Obluchynska, co-founders, Sane Ukraine
• Mark Walsh, founder and CEO of Embodiment Unlimited
• Kristina Obluchynska can be contacted through Deep Transformation Podcast’s support email
• Mark Walsh, The Body in Coaching and Training: An Introduction to Embodied Facilitation,* Embodied Meditation: Mindfulness, the Body, and Daily Life*
• Mark’s Embodiment Coaching Podcast
• Polyvagal theory
• Stephen Porges, The Pocket Guide to the Polyvagal Theory: The Transformative Power of Feeling Safe*
• EMDR Ukraine
• Viktor Frankl, Man’s Search for Meaning*
• Colorado’s Huts for Vets, wilderness therapy for veterans and active-duty service members
• The traffic light model, Dr. Stephen Porges: What is the Polyvagal Theory? (YouTube video) 

* As an Amazon Associate, Deep Transformation earns from qualifying purchases.

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“Mr Embodiment” (Mark Walsh) is the author of The Body in Coaching and Training: An Introduction to Embodied Facilitation and Embodied Meditation. Mark hosts The Embodiment Coaching Podcast (3 million+ downloads), and led the world’s largest Zoom event, The Embodiment Conference. He founded the Embodied Facilitator Course, and has trained over 2,000 embodiment coaches in over 40 countries. Mark went to Ukraine twice during the recent conflict and set up saneukraine.org, a charity now run solely by Ukrainian professionals to provide trauma and embodiment training to trainers, therapists, and coaches. Mark has worked in war zones, and entertained over 50,000 children. He has headlined International Coach Federation events, taught at Moscow State University, and lived with the circus in Ethiopia. Mark is an aikido black belt, and has 25 years of experience in other martial arts, yoga, bodywork, improv comedy, conscious dance, and meditation. Embodiment is his obsession, life’s work, and frankly, at this point, he couldn’t get a job doing anything else. 

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Kristina Obluchynska is a clinical psychologist, in the process of training to be a psychotherapist with a medical background. In her practice, Kristina integrates gestalt and body-oriented psychotherapy with trauma therapy methods, and uses nature-based therapy as well. Kristina’s main work is done with combatants and veterans and their families, as well as with first-line responders in Ukraine, such as doctors and social workers. Together with her colleagues and with Mark Walsh’s help, she co-founded Sane Ukraine, a charity foundation with more than 60 trainers that provides knowledge about trauma and psychological first aid to combatants and civilians. The full-scale invasion of Ukraine caught Kristina and her colleagues when they were Master’s Degree students at Ukrainian Catholic University, and Kristina is now an assistant at the Department of Clinical Psychology, sharing knowledge about psychological trauma and how to work with it using various approaches. Kristina loves and believes in Ukraine—she participated in the Revolution of Dignity and actively supports the Ukrainian army via psychological trainings and volunteer work.

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Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos and Show Notes by Heidi Mitchell

Ep. 169 (Part 2 of 2) | Integral psychologist Keith Witt can’t get enough of the magic and beauty that happens in relationships as people begin to develop what he calls “a post-issue consciousness.” He explains that when our executive self, our wise self or witness, kicks in and forges a caring connection with the places where we hold our hurt and our traumas, then integration and healing start to happen, eventually with almost no conscious energy expenditure. “My job is to help people develop the witness,” Keith says, so they can observe their defensive or destructive states and reach for compassionate understanding, for themselves, for their partner, and for others.

Keith tells us the three foundations of the modern marriage are friendship, a love affair, and an ability to resolve issues that come up, and says the shift to a post-issue relationship happens when all three facets become intentional. “Post-issue couples don’t let things get in the way of their love,” he says. Throughout the conversation, Keith shares a goldmine of therapeutic wisdom on the subject of relationships, including the client/therapist relationship, and in true Integral fashion, he includes perspectives from all sorts of interesting angles, such as our evolutionary development, neural development, and moral and spiritual development. This discussion is warm, friendly, cheerful, lively, and chock full of useful information and insights. Keith’s excitement about the evolutionary directionality of human relationships is contagious and inspiring. Recorded August 16, 2024.

“We have a responsibility to be our best self, our wise self, all the time… this is a good place to grow towards as an individual—and a necessary way to grow as a psychotherapist.”

• Having an agreed-on, go-to technique for when problems arise (01:27)
• The defensive state wants to attack or flee, and the stories you tell yourself to justify attacking or fleeing (03:18)
• Distinguishing between constructive guidance and destructive shadow (04:32)
• Flexibility in couples therapy: going on instinct (07:52)
• Discourse and dialectic is a 21st century metapsychology (10:19)
• The developmental process of becoming more sensitive to when you’re “off” and also to when your relationship is “off” (12:36)
• A flourishing relationship is a liberation (15:05)
• Being a transpersonal therapist means you don’t take things personally (16:47)
• Therapist/client relationship is a major determinant of outcome (18:56)
• Growing toward being our best self all of the time is a good directionality (21:46) 
• The importance of telling the truth skillfully and compassionate understanding (23:29)
• The 6 foundational moral states we are born with get corrupted by defensive states (26:39)
• Radical acceptance: there is nothing I cannot share with my partner (29:44)
• Is forceful intervention ever necessary? Recovery from addiction comes before working on a relationship (32:52)
• Post-issue moments are our human birthright (42:31) 
• Looking for deeper truths about the human experience in conversations like this is enacting a 21st century metapsychology (43:04) 

• Dr. Keith Witt’s website: https://drkeithwitt.com/
• Keith Witt, From Trauma and Transcendence (free eBook)
• Keith Witt, The Gift of Shame: Why We Need Shame and How To Use it To Love and Grow*
• Keith Witt, Waking Up: Psychotherapy as Art, Spirituality, and Science (free eBook)
• Helen Schucman, A Course of Miracles* (Foundation for Inner Peace)
• Keith Witt, Shadow Light: Illuminations at the Edge of Darkness*
• Keith Witt, Loving Completely: A Five Star Practice for Creating Great Relationships*
• Miyamoto Musashi, Book of Five Rings* 
• Roger Walsh, The Perennial Wisdom of A Course in Miracles: The Course and the Four Yogas
• Esther Perel: Your Guide to Relationship Intelligence
• Carl Rogers, Client-Centered Therapy: Its Current Practice, Implications, and Theory*
• Roberk Carkhuff, Seven Skills Summary (Primary Goals website)
• Jonathan Haidt, The Righteous Mind: Why Good People Are Divided by Politics and Religion*

* As an Amazon Associate, Deep Transformation earns from qualifying purchases.

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Dr. Keith Witt is a Licensed Psychologist, teacher, and author who has lived and worked in Santa Barbara since 1973. He has conducted over 75,000 therapy sessions and published ten books, including Loving Completely, Shadow Light, and Integral Mindfulness. His books Waking Up and Sessions were two of the first books on Integrally informed psychotherapy. In presentations and classes around the U.S. and internationally, Keith has explored love, therapy, interpersonal relationships, and development from multiple perspectives, weaving neuroscience, Integral theory, wisdom traditions, and numerous forms of psychotherapy into a coherent cosmology of love and healing.

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Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos and Show Notes by Heidi Mitchell

Ep. 168 (Part 1 of 2) | Integral psychologist Keith Witt can’t get enough of the magic and beauty that happens in relationships as people begin to develop what he calls “a post-issue consciousness.” He explains that when our executive self, our wise self or witness, kicks in and forges a caring connection with the places where we hold our hurt and our traumas, then integration and healing start to happen, eventually with almost no conscious energy expenditure. “My job is to help people develop the witness,” Keith says, so they can observe their defensive or destructive states and reach for compassionate understanding, for themselves, for their partner, and for others.

Keith tells us the three foundations of the modern marriage are friendship, a love affair, and an ability to resolve issues that come up, and says the shift to a post-issue relationship happens when all three facets become intentional. “Post-issue couples don’t let things get in the way of their love,” he says. Throughout the conversation, Keith shares a goldmine of therapeutic wisdom on the subject of relationships, including the client/therapist relationship, and in true Integral fashion, he includes perspectives from all sorts of interesting angles, such as our evolutionary development, neural development, and moral and spiritual development. This discussion is warm, friendly, cheerful, lively, and chock full of useful information and insights. Keith’s excitement about the evolutionary directionality of human relationships is contagious and inspiring. Recorded August 16, 2024.

“Evolution in humans is characterized by deeper consciousness and more compassion . . . evolution has a directionality—and it’s toward unity.”

• Introducing Integral psychologist and prolific author Dr. Keith Witt (01:00)
• What is a post-issue relationship? (03:11)
• What happens when couples develop emotional intelligence and are able to love each other more? (05:48)
• Example of an argument in a post-issue relationship (07:35)
• How complexity and therapeutic parts work figures into it (08:47)
• How do people grow internally? How do we integrate? (10:01)
• A healing cosmology came to Keith after he learned about Integral Theory and all the systems came together (11:59)
• It helps if couples have a sense of evolutionary development (14:24)
• Egalitarian relationships that came online in the last 50-70 years brought along new potentials for love and problem solving (18:33) 
• What happens when we go into defensive states? (19:21)
• Evolution has a directionality toward deeper consciousness, compassion, unity (22:56)
• Liberating ourselves by not cooperating with the argument (24:20)
• How does the long time it takes to raise a human child affect our social learning? (25:38)
• Humans are ultra social: 90% chimpanzee/10% bee (28:01)
• Resilience and trauma programming are actually memory systems (30:57)
• How do people move towards a post-issue relationship? (32:44)
• The key is making it an intentional relationship (35:38)
• Self awareness: we’re often crippled based on a history of trauma (38:42)
• Leading couples therapist John Gottman teaches what works for happy couples to unhappy couples (39:58)
• Physiological arousal—once people are escalated to a certain point, they can’t think (41:58)
• What couples should not do: make negative comparisons (43:38)
• Can Keith tell if a couple will stay together? There’s a certain magic to some couples (44:49)

• Dr. Keith Witt’s website: https://drkeithwitt.com/
• The Dunbar number
• Keith Witt, From Trauma and Transcendence (free eBook)
• Keith Witt, The Gift of Shame: Why We Need Shame and How To Use it To Love and Grow*
• Internal Family Systems (IFS) Institute
• Von Economo neurons
• Joseph Chilton Pearce, Model Imperative (Kindred Newsletter)
• Bert Parlee, Ph.D.
• Keith Witt, Waking Up: Psychotherapy as Art, Spirituality, and Science (free eBook)
• Susan Johnson, The Practice of Emotionally Focused Couple Therapy: Creating Connection*
• John Gottman, The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse

* As an Amazon Associate, Deep Transformation earns from qualifying purchases.

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Dr. Keith Witt is a Licensed Psychologist, teacher, and author who has lived and worked in Santa Barbara since 1973. He has conducted over 75,000 therapy sessions and published ten books, including Loving Completely, Shadow Light, and Integral Mindfulness. His books Waking Up and Sessions were two of the first books on Integrally informed psychotherapy. In presentations and classes around the U.S. and internationally, Keith has explored love, therapy, interpersonal relationships, and development from multiple perspectives, weaving neuroscience, Integral theory, wisdom traditions, and numerous forms of psychotherapy into a coherent cosmology of love and healing.

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Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos and Show Notes by Heidi Mitchell

Ep. 167 (Part 2 of 2) | In the 7th dialogue of the A. H. Almaas Wisdom Series, Hameed Ali enlightens us as to the nature of presence. Our path begins with the recognition that spirit is presence, he explains, an insight which all spiritual traditions share; this is where most of their focus lies. But this is not the end of the story, Hameed tells us—discovering spirit is only half the work. The other half is actualizing presence by clarifying and purifying our souls. Presence works as an agent of transformation in this process; appearing in our souls as curiosity and a love of truth, it leads us home. The discussion turns to virtues, the fruition of realization, and how it is that realized teachers can behave in entirely unethical ways: “realization is no guarantee of ethical behavior.”

This conversation is packed with insights regarding many related topics: how ethics most importantly concern our relations with others, that kindness becomes spontaneous for the true master, the distinction between universal grace and specific grace, how inner spaciousness or emptiness is the other side of the coin from presence or fullness, and the question arises, “Why is it that some people are interested in going deeper and others not?” Hameed also speaks of his own experience of unilocal realization, where all time and space are found in the center of the heart and accessing information from the future is possible. It is not so much I am this or that, he says, it’s simply I am. This warm, illuminating discussion has a fascinating flow and sparks many instances of quiet laughter on all sides. Recorded December 12, 2024.

“True nature is a real magician; to know yourself as that magician is true realization.”

• Living ethically is conducive to realization (00:50)
• True mastery means your kindness is spontaneous (02:15)
• Ethics apply more at an ego level; spirit has its own principles (04:28)
• Feeling the pain of being constricted is one way the spiritual impulse arises (05:59)
• Why do some people want to go deeper than others? (06:40)
• The love of truth leads us home: the dynamic of realization (09:14)
• Unilocal realization: experiencing all time and space in the heart (11:10)
• Hameed can learn from his future self and from people who have died (12:26)
• Trusting ourselves, and the distinction between universal grace and specific grace (16:28)
• Practice helps make us grace-prone; most people need a teacher or guide (19:24)
• Presence is the fullness and inner spaciousness the emptiness side of things (21:50)
• True nature is a real magician; to know yourself as that magician is true realization (26:52) 
• Space/time emanates from our true nature (29:02)
• Ethics are relative to our time and culture; but essential ethics are timeless (31:24)
• Selflessness and concern for the well-being of all has grown over time (33:35)

• A. H. Almaas (Hameed Ali), founder of The Ridhwan School, home of The Diamond Approach
• A. H. Almaas, The Inner Journey Home: Soul’s Realization of the Unity of Reality
• Abraham Maslow’s term metamotivation, the motivation of people who are self-actualized
• Rangjung Rigpe Dorje, 16th Karmapa
• Sri Atmananda Krishna Menon
• Dzogchen Rinpoche
• Dōgen Zenji, founder of the Sōtō school of Zen
• A. H. Almaas, The Void: Inner Spaciousness and Ego Structure
• Dzogchen, a tradition of teachings in Indo-Tibetan Buddhism and Bön aimed at discovering and continuing in the ultimate ground of existence

The A. H. Almaas Wisdom Series will generally follow the sequence of Hameed’s magnum opus, The Inner Journey Home (which John describes as psychoactive and spiritually, psychologically, and intellectually transformative), so listeners may want to get a copy of this book, to study and follow along on this exhilarating path of awakening.

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Hameed Ali (A. H. Almaas) was born in Kuwait in 1944. At the age of eighteen, he moved to the U.S. to study at the University of California in Berkeley. Hameed was working on his Ph.D. in physics when he reached a turning point in his life and destiny that led him to inquire into the psychological and spiritual aspects of human nature rather than the physical nature of the universe. He left the academic world to pursue an in-depth journey of inner discovery, applying his scientific precision and discipline to personal, experiential research. This included study with different teachers in different modalities, extensive reading, and continuous study of his own consciousness in an effort to understand the essential nature of human experience and reality in general.

Hameed’s process of exploration led to the creation of the Ridhwan School and, with his colleague Karen Johnson, resulted in the founding and unfoldment of the Diamond Approach. He is the author of 20 books, including Nondual Love: Awakening to the Loving Nature of Reality, Love Unveiled: Discovering the Essence of the Awakened Heart, Keys to the Enneagram: How to Unlock the Highest Potential of Every Personality Type, The Unfolding Now: Realizing Your True Nature through the Practice of Presence, and more. 

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Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos and Show Notes by Heidi Mitchell

Ep. 166 (Part 1 of 2) | In the 7th dialogue of the A. H. Almaas Wisdom Series, Hameed Ali enlightens us as to the nature of presence. Our path begins with the recognition that spirit is presence, he explains, an insight which all spiritual traditions share; this is where most of their focus lies. But this is not the end of the story, Hameed tells us—discovering spirit is only half the work. The other half is actualizing presence by clarifying and purifying our souls. Presence works as an agent of transformation in this process; appearing in our souls as curiosity and a love of truth, it leads us home. The discussion turns to virtues, the fruition of realization, and how it is that realized teachers can behave in entirely unethical ways: “realization is no guarantee of ethical behavior.”

This conversation is packed with insights regarding many related topics: how ethics most importantly concern our relations with others, that kindness becomes spontaneous for the true master, the distinction between universal grace and specific grace, how inner spaciousness or emptiness is the other side of the coin from presence or fullness, and the question arises, “Why is it that some people are interested in going deeper and others not?” Hameed also speaks of his own experience of unilocal realization, where all time and space are found in the center of the heart and accessing information from the future is possible. It is not so much I am this or that, he says, it’s simply I am. This warm, illuminating discussion has a fascinating flow and sparks many instances of quiet laughter on all sides. Recorded December 12, 2024.

“Presence is both the inner nature and the elixir of transformation.”

• Introducing the 7th dialogue in the A. H. Almaas Wisdom Series (01:01)
• The basic spiritual insight common to all schools is the recognition of what spirit is: a palpable presence, a substrate of all reality (01:37)
• The path begins with recognizing presence and then goes on (03:49)
• Presence is being, the way we experience our true nature (05:55)
• Exploring the essential qualities of the soul is an important tool to expose and dissolve components of the ego (07:55)
• Recognizing true nature doesn’t mean we express it in our life (09:09)
• Discovering spirit is only half the work, the other half is purifying the soul (10:50)
• Great traditions don’t get into actualization; psychology is what allowed us to develop practices like inquiry that help to release ego structures (13:02)
• How realized teachers can be angry, or sadistic (17:18)
• Animal soul, human soul, angelic soul: most of us operate from the animal soul (19:40)
• Working on character (21:43)
• Realization and teaching skill are quite different (23:36)
• There’s no guarantee a realized person will behave ethically (27:01)
• Virtues are the impact of spiritual presence on the soul (28:17)
• An important part of ethical behavior is in relationship (28:59)
• “Objective conscience” supports us in living a life of truth (29:22)
• Liberation is different from realization; with liberation there are no imprints of time left in you (32:38)
• The inner child is an imprint of the past, the structure doesn’t last (33:45)
• Getting beyond victimhood (34:44)
• Guilt versus true sorrow (36:12)

• A. H. Almaas (Hameed Ali), founder of The Ridhwan School, home of The Diamond Approach
• A. H. Almaas, The Inner Journey Home: Soul’s Realization of the Unity of Reality*
• Fritz Perls, founder of Gestalt Therapy, “Awareness in itself is healing.”
• Frederick Perls, Ralph Hefferline, Paul Goodman, Gestalt Therapy* 
• A. H. Almaas Wisdom Series, Dialogue 4, “Discovering the Souls Treasures,” is where Hameed talks about the specific qualities of the soul (YouTube video)
• Dilgo Khyentse & Orgyen Tobgyal, The Life and Times of Jamyang Khyentse Chökyi Lodrö

The A. H. Almaas Wisdom Series will generally follow the sequence of Hameed’s magnum opus, The Inner Journey Home* (which John describes as psychoactive and spiritually, psychologically, and intellectually transformative), so listeners may want to get a copy of this book, to study and follow along on this exhilarating path of awakening.

* As an Amazon Associate, Deep Transformation earns from qualifying purchases.

---

Hameed Ali (A. H. Almaas) was born in Kuwait in 1944. At the age of eighteen, he moved to the U.S. to study at the University of California in Berkeley. Hameed was working on his Ph.D. in physics when he reached a turning point in his life and destiny that led him to inquire into the psychological and spiritual aspects of human nature rather than the physical nature of the universe. He left the academic world to pursue an in-depth journey of inner discovery, applying his scientific precision and discipline to personal, experiential research. This included study with different teachers in different modalities, extensive reading, and continuous study of his own consciousness in an effort to understand the essential nature of human experience and reality in general.

Hameed’s process of exploration led to the creation of the Ridhwan School and, with his colleague Karen Johnson, resulted in the founding and unfoldment of the Diamond Approach. He is the author of 20 books, including Nondual Love: Awakening to the Loving Nature of Reality, Love Unveiled: Discovering the Essence of the Awakened Heart, Keys to the Enneagram: How to Unlock the Highest Potential of Every Personality Type, The Unfolding Now: Realizing Your True Nature through the Practice of Presence, and more. 

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Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos and Show Notes by Heidi Mitchell