Dental A Team Podcast

As practices grow and new people filter in, it's normal to want to measure each member of your team against your current goals versus where they were when first hired. Tiff and Nikki talk about assessing positions from a bird's eye view, working with someone who's stalled out in individual growth, differentiating emotions from the practical, and more.

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Transcript:

Tiffanie (00:00)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners. We are excited to be here with you today. I am just putting this out there. Nikki and I have tried to record this podcast now three

Nikki Mack (00:09)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (00:10)

times, and we are excited to get this information to you guys and hoping that our network works with us full time today. Nikki, thank you for being flexible, for being someone that will just jump in and for loving on Dental A Team and your clients as much as you do. I value and appreciate you so much.

This week and every week. How are you today?

Nikki Mack (00:32)

I am good. It's so good to be here. I'm hopeful for today. We've got it. I know it's gonna work. and just, you know, what a fun testament of like we're committed. We're gonna get this to you, we're gonna do what it takes. And couldn't think of anyone to be doing it with that would be better than you. So yeah, happy to be here.

Tiffanie (00:50)

Thank you. Thank

you. I think you pointed out something very special there. It's Sterilis. It's a part of our core values, right? Do the right thing. We've got the grit and the passion for excellence and

the results focus. We are living and breathing those this week. I completely agree. gosh, Nikki. so fun fact, we both head out for offices soon. we're both gonna be

Nikki Mack (01:15)

Mm-hmm.

Tiffanie (01:15)

on the road again. And I was looking at the weather.

This morning with my fiance. Have you looked yet?

Nikki Mack (01:23)

I have it. Now I'm nervous. It's share. Share with the class.

Tiffanie (01:24)

Yeah. So mm-hmm.

So just for everyone's knowledge base, at the time of recording this, it is mid October. We're like a week into October of twenty twenty six. And yesterday here in Phoenix, in my area of Phoenix was a hundred degrees. That was our high. Today's

Nikki Mack (01:44)

Mm.

Tiffanie (01:44)

high is ninety nine. Next week it's like high sixties and we're gone.

Nikki Mack (01:52)

Okay, yeah, that tracks. Got it.

Tiffanie (01:55)

No, so last week when Nikki

was gone, or the week before last when Nikki was gone, we were both traveling that week and everywhere we went we had just missed the rain. Like it was trailing right behind us, including at home. So it was beautiful at home, it was raining, the weather was gorgeous, and we get back and it's sunny and hot and we've been living sunny and hot now. And as soon as we leave, like legitimately I think Sunday, it starts cooling down. Yep.

Aaron said, he said, my gosh, it's gonna be so pretty next week. I Yeah, and it's literally the entire time that I'm gone. Seven days of beauty, seven days I'm gone. So I thought I'd share that with you today. I get you prepped, ready to go. It's Thursday. So, you know, here we are. It's gonna be great.

Nikki Mack (02:40)

Yeah.

It's my mind for it. I love it. You know what? Well but I will say this. At least almost everywhere we go is beautiful and green. Everywhere's

beautiful.

Tiffanie (02:50)

This is true.

Nikki Mack (02:51)

Walk that back. Everywhere's beautiful. Just most places are also green. And as desert girlies, like I love to see it. So there's a win.

Tiffanie (02:57)

Yeah, it's so true. And we should

get some fall colors, which they're not good, it might be beautiful here, but there's no fall colors in Phoenix. So I love that. I love that.

Nikki Mack (03:05)

Absolutely. my god.

Tiffanie (03:08)

Well, more testaments to our core values, which actually, as you said that earlier, like our our testament to getting this done, I kind of I think that actually we spoke a little bit about what we were gonna talk about today, but I think that kind of ties into today's statements as well and really talking about our core values. So

Today, Nikki, I'm picking your brain on team. And something it's been a very recurring theme. and I think actually, now that I say it out loud, like I think a lot of practices right now are pushing for growth. It's towards the end of the year and they've experienced some growth. For whatever reason, this year has been like a like a stale growth. It hasn't been a lot at one time. It's been kind of intermittent and a weird year for sure.

But practices are experiencing that growth. And within that, we hire new people, shift things shift and people shift, but we really start taking a look at the people that we have, the people that we need, et cetera. And today's topic, we really wanted to talk about your team. Like, would you rehire everyone on your team? And I love this title or this topic that our marketing team gave to us so much because it's like hard.

Core, right? Like it hit. It was like, wow, that's like cut into the chase. Would you rehire everyone? So, Nikki, I think this is something that comes up for a lot of practices, at least in my consulting. And I think you're seeing it. I know specifically a couple of practices you have that have onboarded new doctors and new hygienists and just this expansive growth. When it comes to looking at the actual team members, what are you helping practices work through? How are you walking them through that and really?

trying to decide on something like this, like would you hire this person again? How do you, how do you work that with them?

Nikki Mack (04:58)

So I think the first step is you have to take an honest look at the practice, yourself as a leader and kind of your expectations, right? Where are we like truly at? What's changed this year, and what do I still want to change, right? You know, like what what goalposts are we still working towards and how has that translated with my team? Because here's the thing at the end of the day, you hired everyone on your team for a reason, right?

Nobody, I think, wandered in off the street and was like, Can I stay for a bit? And you're like, Yeah, sounds good, right? You know, we'll teach you how to use Tentrics, it's fine. but our teams do change, right? Our office changes, and we change as leaders and kind of our goals and things we're looking for. So being able to say, like, okay, let me take a real honest look at where we're at, where I'm trying to go, and how everyone kind of fits in with that right now, not from that personal relationship standpoint.

not from you know past experiences with them, but just how do they fit into my team and my structure because what do I need? a good example of that, I think a lot of times when we talk about org charts with teams, right? we love an org chart. But what do

Tiffanie (06:08)

I do.

Nikki Mack (06:08)

we usually tell them, let's design an org chart for what your office needs, not for the people that you currently have in place. And then we figure out how they fit into those positions. Because we have to be honest about what we're trying to build and what team structure gets us there.

And I think it's that same kind of mentality, even if we have an org chart, if we're evaluating our team, what do we really have? Right? Like what is in place and what are our goals?

Tiffanie (06:34)

Yeah, I love that. And

Nikki Mack (06:35)

Mm-hmm.

Tiffanie (06:36)

within that like org chart and that structure and really looking at those goals, I something I notice is even just in the same position, no growth for the practice, a lot of times someone can just like get stale or stagnant, or maybe they were in a space that worked for a while and now that's that space just isn't working. Do you feel, Nikki, that once someone's a bad seed, they're always a bad seed?

do you feel like there's opportunity for individual growth? I've seen all of it, and I think we can walk through so many scenarios, but like when you consult a practice and when on Dental A Team consults a practice for all of the listeners, we rely heavily on a lot of information that you provide to us. And so we're the bird's eye viewpoint. and we try to see everything from that high-level kind of looking in.

But we really do require so much data and input from you. So Nikki, with that, when you're coming in like blind, we'll call it, right? You're just you've just got the information that you have. How are you helping a doctor to assess those people? And I'm like truly interested.

Nikki Mack (07:50)

Yeah. Okay, so this is possibly one of my fatal flaws. we're full transparency, right? Here on Dental A Team. I absolutely believe people are you

Tiffanie (08:00)

Same.

Nikki Mack (08:00)

rehabilitate, right? Like I know it and sometimes look guys, sometimes I've tried way too long to my detriment. But what valuable experience to know when to tell you, like, guys, cut it. We've done what

Tiffanie (08:13)

It's fair.

Nikki Mack (08:13)

we can.

but I do often think there's room. And I know a few of my teams right now would be listening to this and being like, Yes, we had that same conversation. I was like, This person, we've done everything, there's no hope. And I was Well, let's just try one more thing, right? Now I'm

Tiffanie (08:28)

Yeah.

Nikki Mack (08:28)

fresh, new set of eyes. Let's be for sure that we've done everything. Because it's completely fair as a leader. Sometimes we think we've done everything, and sometimes we've only responded out of frustration in the moment. And so I do think people can be

Saved, right? So to speak. but we have to be super intentional. And this is about really looking into okay, what are my concerns with this problem, with this person, excuse me? What are their opportunities? What are the consistent challenges? Is this something that's coachable? Or is this something that is simply not a fit? Whether it's skill set, personality, you know, something of that degree, if it truly doesn't work for what I need from that role, then we have a different conversation. Because I think it goes.

In two places, depending on the position. Are they still a good fit for my team, but maybe in a different seat? Or is there not somewhere in this practice that is the appropriate seat for what we're trying to do and where they're at? But

Tiffanie (09:28)

Yeah.

Nikki Mack (09:28)

ultimately, yes, I am gonna try to save you a hundred percent. I just want to be sure that I did everything I could and that we are confident if you are in the right seat and you're the right person.

Tiffanie (09:39)

Personally and professionally, that's me to my detriment. Yes,

Nikki Mack (09:41)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (09:45)

I think a lot of us in the dental field probably feel that way. Something I'm hearing that's really special and important to pull out is the separation that you're creating from the emotional standpoint to the black and white. Like, are they are they a good fit? And that's personality wise.

and capabilities, but removing those emotional pieces. Because to your point of what you said, I think a lot of decisions we make in life in general are emotionally based decisions. Like we don't go to Target, right, for just the things we need. I every time we walk into Target, the kids are like, what are are we here for? Like, did we get everything we need? And I every single time I say, listen, guys, Target doesn't, I don't always come knowing what I need from Target. Target tells me what I need.

And we walk around until I feel as though Target has spoken to me all that it can. And then we check out. Then it's time. Then it's time to

Nikki Mack (10:43)

Then it's time to check out. Okay.

Tiffanie (10:45)

check out. And those are just those are emotionally, you know, we're walking through the it's always the kitchen stuff, right? And I'm like, you know, and my cart's full. And sis is like, I don't think we needed that. I'm like, it's fine. Target said, but we're making those decisions.

not just at Target, we're also making them in the workplace, and maybe even more so in the workplace because the stress is higher. Like Target's not stressing me out. It's just getting me excited, right? But I'm still making these emotionally based decisions on if I do or don't want something. And I think at the workplace it's so much more stress evolved, right? They're involved. There's so much more stress to be had that we're like, cut it, be done. Or I'm gonna

continue trying until I can't try anymore. So I love that you determined those two pieces. Now, would you rehire everyone on your team is like that's honestly it's a little harsh, right? And I love it because I want to take that look. and something you mentioned too with the org chart. And then you also said like are they in the right seat? Are they right the right person? So does their personality fit our practice and then are they in the right place? Something that ties into what you said initially this morning when we started was

like

the core value. So I think it's huge for people and for practice owners to understand how to separate those two things. And Nikki, I think you do a great job at anecdotes and allowing people to see like real life examples. How would you how would you help a doctor to determine like, is this an an emotional decision that I'm making, or can I see on paper black and white that this person does or doesn't work for us?

Nikki Mack (12:27)

Yeah. I think it comes back to KPIs a little bit, right?

Tiffanie (12:31)

Mm.

Nikki Mack (12:31)

You know our things we love. because you have to decide if the outcome, whether that outcome is frustration, things not getting done, holes in the schedule, lack of follow up, whatever the outcome is that's causing that concern, where is that coming from? Is it a KPI issue? Is it a training issue, or is it a personality issue, right? Like kind of a fit.

Because we talk a lot in

dentistry about how fit matters a ton, right? Patients need to find the right dentist for what they're looking for. You need the right team for what you're looking for. And I think it definitely matters with team and what role they fill. Because we'll take, for example, a small office, right? We've you and I have both been there, right? I was the only girl up front running the show. So I did the phone calls, I did confirmation, I did billing. We're a hundred years old, so we didn't get to text patients to confirm.

Tiffanie (13:22)

Yeah,

fair.

Nikki Mack (13:23)

We were making

40 phone calls, right? you figure out how to do all of it and we make it work, right? And our office thrives and we grow and it's amazing. And then we bring more people on. But sometimes people are doing certain duties just because they've fallen into that place, or that's kind of where it is. But then as we grow and there's a little bit more of dedication to tasks, I might still be with a task that actually I don't love. And I can do it, but

It's not what fills my cup, right? And it's not what kind of gets me excited to come in every day. And that over time will impact our performance, right? Even if we're good at it. Look, my billing ladies out there, Tiffanie and I both talked about this. My AR queens, the insurance, you know, 40 minute phone call, they're gonna wait it out. Appreciate you, love you. That can't be me long term. Can I do it? Yes. Is that what I want to do for 40 hours a week? my gosh, no. I need a patient. You know what I mean?

You can end up in these positions and that is where that output suffers. But is it because I don't have the skills or is it because that's just not where I thrive? And so I think that's where you have to look at what's causing this gap or miss with this employee and where does it come from? Because maybe I can train them. Maybe we can figure out how to utilize them in a different way. and what the office, what does that look like? Right? Because when we're in different periods of growth, we have to

Take a step back just like we look at systems, look at our people. Where what seat are they in? And is that the right seat for what we need and where we want to go?

Tiffanie (14:56)

Yeah.

So you're taking out the emotions by just simply looking at black and white data. I love that you brought in the KPIs. because I think that's multifaceted too of if we're not if we're not reaching the KPIs and that's the frustration. So maybe the schedule's not full, like you said, or whatever the KPI is that they're not hitting, then you can take a step back and we're really like removing the person. Cause you think that's what happens, right? Is that we get attached to Nikki.

Right. And I love Nikki. And I'm like, okay, but I don't want to lose Nikki. Or maybe Nikki just frustrated the heck out of me today. And I I'm like, get out of here. But the reality is, is Nikki reaching the goals or not? And so what you're saying, I'm like visualizing this and I love it because I can see, okay, this KPI is not being hit. And if that's the frustration, not the personality.

Right. If that's the frustration, then we can take a step back and say, cool, what about that isn't like what's what's missing? So then we can say, do they know how to do it? Right. Like, do they know how to do it? Do they want to do it? And do they have the space for it? Because something you said there is huge that I think we miss is that want. And then caveat here, because I worked in this office where we just like

Decided, I don't want to do that one anymore. So we moved it to somebody else and we just like shifted responsibilities and roles all the time. A role has its responsibilities. And 90% of it you're gonna love. There might be a 10% that's like, this is a mundane task that I hate doing. You just gotta bust through it, right? That's that book, eat that frog. Okay, just do it, just get it done. But if at the core this person doesn't want this job.

That's what you're saying. And that might not be a would you rehire this team member to your point? It might be, is there a different role that might suit them better? I love that. So then

Nikki Mack (16:57)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (16:57)

it takes out the person. Now the person, though, I think would be more apt to the rehire question. Maybe not.

Nikki Mack (17:04)

Yes.

Tiffanie (17:05)

I think they're both fair. But I think let's pivot. Because you might think, would I have rehired this person just because they're not accomplishing the KPIs and the goals? And then you're like,

missing this great human. Now what if it's like her personality is driving me nuts? You know, and I think Nikki to your point of the billing, like I my personality, if you put me in a billing seat, you're gonna hate me because I'm really

Nikki Mack (17:31)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (17:32)

cranky. Like Aaron even knows he's like, I can tell when you're just like in like go mode, like you've been on calls all day because I come out like, okay, what else are we gonna do? What can we solve? What do I how do I put the dishes away? Like I'm

Nikki Mack (17:43)

Right.

Tiffanie (17:44)

just like

Crazy, right? And he's like, yeah, like you gotta like chill and calm down. So putting me in that position, my personality does change. So walk me through some ideas there. Like what are you what are you seeing out in the field? And how

do you help

Nikki Mack (18:00)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (18:01)

determine the person?

Nikki Mack (18:03)

So, and I think this goes to some of the like behavior leadership like key components that we talk about a lot with our clients. This is where knowing your team comes into play. This is where having those check-ins, right, those one-on-ones and understanding what's going on with them, how their position is going, but also how they're doing. Because you're totally right, the dental office is busy, right? We talk about this all the time. Sometimes even a slow day is still a crazy day, no matter what we do.

And we want to control that chaos as much as possible, but it is still very much go, go, go. So as a leader, being able to step back and know where your team is and check in with them, those are those things that are going to allow you to A, notice shifts, right? Like, gosh, Tiff is like cranky every day this week, right? what's going on? How do I support that? And having a relationship with your team too, where we're in that level of trust and vulnerability that they can come to you.

Right. And have those conversations on both ends. So there's more than just sitting down today and saying, I'm gonna evaluate my team. We have to have some strategies and practices in place that allow you to move on that like very quickly. Now, if you aren't already doing that, that's okay because hi, hello, welcome to the Dental A Team Podcast, and we talk about would you rehire your team? This is where we start. Let's evaluate our team, let's evaluate where we're at and get that information, have those conversations, right?

and be able to understand where people fit because at the end of the day, if your team understands where you're going and why, then it's a lot easier for them to understand how they fit into that. And then sometimes team members come to their realizations themselves. I have a crazy story I'm gonna share with you. And I promise it's true. I would swear this, you know, in a court of law. It sounds fake, but it's not. a doctor that I used to work with years ago, we were hyper focused on this. Like

Our team growth, our team direction, our mission values, everything was top of like the commitment order. And the team was super excited, super bought in. We were all growing together. He had a team member that he had been a little bit, you know, concerned about. Amazing person, great personality, great team player. Just we weren't sure if she fit where we were going, right? That team member actually came to him and said, Doc, I love this office and I love that I've been a part of your team.

I'm not the right fit for where we're going. Like I can recognize that this is not where I where I belong, right? And she removed herself from the situation. But I'll tell you what, because she had such a strong relationship, she was amazing. Like we were sad to see her go. She found the replacement. She knew someone that was looking for a new office. She knew that person's personality and she was able to bring them on.

train them, get them ready to go, and then doc knew someone that needed an assistant that was great too. So it worked out amazing. Yeah. Is that gonna be the case every time? No guys. Hi. I realize that.

Tiffanie (21:05)

Yeah. Yeah.

Nikki Mack (21:06)

But when you build those foundations, when you have that relationship, these things are in fact possible. We can have that open line of communication and understanding and your team knows where we're going and they're fully bought in and support it.

Tiffanie (21:21)

I love that story. Ideal. So it almost

yeah, it almost sounds like it's less of a like would you rehire this team question? And which is the question, that's fine. But it's more of a have I done everything to support my team and lead and guide them so that I can even see if I would rehire this person or not. So we have to make sure we're doing our due diligence of pouring into the people.

And allowing the space for them to see if they even like it here or not, and then asking that question.

Nikki Mack (21:58)

Yeah. And then I think we haven't gotten to this part yet, but also at the end of everything, it's okay to say no. Would I rehire this person? No. For whatever reason. If they just don't fit right with what we're doing, if maybe like you said, the skill set's not there, the want isn't there, if they're not the right fit, guys, it's absolutely okay to acknowledge that and then figure out what comes next and how do we support the team. Because at the end of the day, if it is the wrong fit,

It's not a win for either of you. Not the employee, not you, not your team, not your patients.

Tiffanie (22:32)

I love that. I actually have had myself as a manager, I've had that where I've poured into this assistant. I felt like she was doing she was good when she was good. And she was really bad when she was bad. And I remember having to make that decision. And it was one of the hardest fires I've ever done in my life because I really wanted so much more for her, personally and professionally. I just saw this life that she could create and I think

As a leader, that's something that we can all do really well, is we can see the the person. And then, like we said earlier, like to our detriment, sometimes we will overlook things. And I did for a little while, not even overlooked. I feel like I excused things and like tried to coach and

Nikki Mack (23:18)

Mm-hmm.

Tiffanie (23:18)

tried to help. and at the end of it all, it was.

Pretty mutual, like you said. She kind of she knew it was coming. She knew she wasn't the best fit. She knew she could do better. But the team when I let her go, the team that felt so supported and so loved and so seen, because they had been at the end of the day, the ones that were suffering from just not the right person. Like, and she's not a bad human. I I she's a great person.

She

just wasn't the right fit for our practice at the time that we were at. And once that space was like alleviated and the team felt truly heard and seen, the whole team rose up to the occasion. They helped hire the next person. They helped train. They helped foreign to that person because they saw not only what could be like they didn't only see what could be wrong, what could be the worst, right? But they saw we can all.

pour into someone like Tiff did and build someone. And when it's right, it's right. And when it's wrong, we all have a, we all have a say in that now. So to your point, like it totally changed, I feel like, the values that the team saw and the way everyone else decided to show up thereafter. And it was after one on ones, we did, you know, core value assessments. These are your action items, like core value assessments are is this person

meeting our core values, is it a knowledge gap? Like do they need to know more about their position? Do they want their position? And on a on a people level, how do they show up for the team? and not just for themselves or just for the doctor or just for the leadership?

Nikki Mack (25:01)

Will you hear you?

Tiffanie (25:02)

Like how are they treating the rest of their team? And really doing like you said, those one-on-ones and building that relationship made a massive difference. Cause even this gal when she had to walk into my office, we already had our relationship built.

Nikki Mack (25:15)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (25:15)

And so

the conversation was honestly easy. It was not an it was a hard task and it was hard as a human, but the conversation was very easy.

Nikki Mack (25:28)

Yeah. Ultimately at the end of the day, I feel like when we're doing our job as leaders, whether a conversation is good, bad, or in the middle, it should never be a surprise to the employee we're having it with. Because we've had those conversations, we've had support and correction in place where necessary. And then they know where it's headed, right? Because they have ownership over their ability as well. So I think you brought up such a great point. Your team will rise up, man.

Like it's hard to lose a good person, but when we're making it the decision for the right reasons, your team may have been I'm not gonna say suffering, because it's not always suffering, but adjusting, right? Or

Tiffanie (26:13)

Yeah.

Nikki Mack (26:14)

accounting for it in different ways. So then when you make that realization, make that change where needed, your team will usually rise up because now they've see the other side as well.

And the value in that. So it that it's tough. I know it's hard to hire, right? We're stressed about losing people. And that's part of why I'm a big fan of doing everything we can, knowing that I've checked every box possible to help lift them up. But if your answer is no, then what are we going to do about it? Right. And that's something that we work through. Because you know what? No office is the same, right? No situation

Tiffanie (26:49)

Yeah.

Nikki Mack (26:49)

is the same. And so we ask a lot of different questions from that point too.

But we have to be honest with ourselves to kind of get that yes or no, right? Would I rehire? Would I keep them where they're at? And just being truthful and not fully emotionally driven with that.

Tiffanie (27:06)

Yeah.

Yeah. Awesome. Amazing. Thank you, Nikki. Action items, I'm gonna pull for everyone based on Nikki's conversations here. And please remember like this is this is coaching, this is real life coaching. This is what Nikki, all of our consultants do with our practices when these things come up. So foundational, make sure you've got your core values. You've got something that leads and guides your team on how to show up. So they know how to show up, they know how to be a positive member of your team and your culture is driven by your core values.

You've got KPI measurements. That's something that Nikki mentioned. Like, can they do their job? Are they doing their job? And then evaluate. Do they understand the job that you've asked them to do? Do they want that job? Do they have the capacity to do it? Are they in the right seat? And do those one-on-ones, you guys, whether it's monthly, we love monthly, every other month, quarterly, like some of my practices are are larger. So they're doing hygiene one month, dental assistance one month.

front office one month and they're rotating those quarterly so every department's getting hit quarterly. So reach out to us. Nikki, thank you so much for today. This was incredible. I think there's a ton of value in here and I appreciate you so much. You guys, if you want help with this, you need any templates, you're ready to talk to us to figure out how can we help support you in your roles and with your team, please reach out. [email protected]. We are always here to help you and we love what we do.

Drop us a five-star review below. Let us know how valuable this was and anything else that you feel could be added. People do read through those reviews. So it's great for you to get your comments in there as well. And as always, we will catch you next time. Thanks so much.

Nikki Mack (28:46)

Peace.

Kiera is joined by Ryan Gross, CEO of Grapevine (formerly CEOShare), to discuss the future of dentistry in terms of marketing and AI, and how practices can stay up-to-date on everything. They touch on using AI to work smarter, not harder; utilizing the patient base you have more effectively; how to balance your practice's revenue with marketing benefits; and more.

Episode resources:

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Transcript:

Kiera (00:00)

Hello, Dental A Team Listeners. This is Kiera and today is an exciting day. I have a dear friend on our podcast, Ryan Gross, who used to be part of CMO Share and has now rebranded into Grapevine, doing all things fun in the marketing world. Ryan, how are you today?

Ryan (00:13)

Good. I'm so excited to be on your podcast. You know, we've known each other for years and kind of both seen each other's you know, how we've grown as companies in our in our careers and our journeys. So excited to be here and chat some marketing and you know, see you catch up on on what's going on in in in the industry.

Kiera (00:31)

Absolutely. Well, Ryan, for those who haven't heard you or don't know anything about you, tell them a little bit about now the new renamed Grapevine. kind of like how you got into marketing. I know you worked at the zoo. kind of just some fun backgrounds, but kind how did we get from where you were to where you are today?

Ryan (00:46)

Yeah, so my my marketing journey you know starts fairly fresh out of college. I went to work for the Walt Disney Company while I was in college and I did recruiting for them for years and then I went into the attractions industry and other areas, worked for a couple of museums, then went back to work for Disney again, working for Disney Vacation Club, doing marketing for them, and then went to work for a zoo.

And so spent, you know, that that time span's about 18 years of working in the attractions industry. and then I have a a friend, a good friend, Dr. Addison Kaleen, who was saying, hey, I need some help with my marketing. And I said, Okay, let me see if I can help out. And so I just did some stuff on the side for him and decided to go out on my own and started the journey of our company was CMO Share. started that out as basically a fractional CMO for practices.

you know, had a had a small group that I was working with and what happened during that time was we started to realize that on a digital marketing front, the dental like basically websites and Google ads, just the strategy at that time wasn't really what what I felt could have been the best approach to it. So we got into the website business and digital marketing business, and that's really where we've kind of

exploded since then in terms of our ability to to acquire new patients that way. And then over time when we started to look at the company, we said, okay, well, we're more than just websites. We have a phenomenal data set. And that's really where Grapevine was grown is the fact that we're one of the largest holders of dental data and when it comes to marketing, phone data and operational data combined. And so Grapevine was grown out of that as

now of our AI platform which kind of runs everything that we do.

Kiera (02:45)

That's awesome. Yeah. So let's talk about how offices are starting to like stand out in today's era with AI. I think that'd be a fun way to kind of dig into that marketing AI. I know it's a a very unique piece. So yeah, take it away on what you're seeing of like what's the future of dentistry and marketing and AI and how practices can can stay top of mind.

Ryan (03:06)

Yeah, so you know, I get this question often from practices and you know from from other companies is you know what is happening in the dental space when you look at from a marketing standpoint? And the thing is that I tell people e AI is an aid to what's what's out there right now and and to help you with your marketing. It's not gonna be the you know the only way to acquire new patients. but what it does is essentially is if you have enough data sets on on

your market and your area and patients, what you can do is you can use that to to go after more patients who are more likely to convert and to essentially accept treatment. That's that's the goal in my opinion and how we're seeing it work the best. And so you know one interesting data point that we have is we've seen this year the amount of traffic to our practices, their sites go down, but the number of people converting through phone calls increasing.

Because if you're using AI properly, what you're doing is you're getting in front of again the people who are most likely to convert for your business. And so that's that's a a powerful tool because it's you know you're getting you're working smarter, not harder. And the people who are coming into the practice, if you're doing this correctly, are more likely to spend money with you and accept that treatment. And especially now if you look at how you know a patients are navigating

the dental space, you know, they're really cost conscious. And so if you aren't doing this correctly, you're gonna get in front of a lot of people who aren't gonna accept treatment. And that's a big issue that we're seeing across the board.

Kiera (04:39)

Yeah. So Ryan, break that down in a bit deeper. Like how do people find those data points on practice? I think they I think it's fascinating to like less people are clicking, but more converting. I feel like that's always like a backwards. It feels a little backwards from what we've been taught for so long. How do they find these data points? How do they laser focus in on these patients? Like what are some of the specifics? Like let's get nitty gritty go under the hood and what are some of those specifics that they can do?

Ryan (05:02)

Yeah, so you know, if you wanna look at from a higher level first from a number standpoint, you know, I always ask or I always say you need to know a few data points. You need know, first of all, I always start this, what is your phone call answer rate? You know, and that's that seems simple, but you know, I presented a few months ago to about five hundred practices and I asked people to raise their hand in the room and it was, you know, dozen or so op raise their hand if they know their phone call answer rate. Because if you look at the phone call data, that's gonna

determine or give you a baseline just how well you are performing in terms of conversions of new patients. So you need to understand your phone data, how many calls you're getting, how many you're answering, first of all. The second piece of that is how many people are attempting to convert through your website. So when I say conversions in this case, I'm looking at people who are trying to call you through your website or through Google Ads, and people then who are trying to schedule online.

You take those data points there and you can start to compare the numbers. you know, we we have such a large data set, you know, over ten million phone calls we've analyzed and millions of Google conversions that we can basically use our AI tool to then say, okay, here's how many new patients you should have and in your market how many you should have. but you can do this on a on a practice level too, just by looking at and start to compare those numbers and you know, use tools out there like ChatGPT or Claude or things like that to help you analyze this and then

You want to also start to look at what are patients accepting in terms of production and look at your current patient numbers as well. So you kind of have to look at trends because you know we'll get questions like, Well, you know, my my schedule has holes in it. And I'll say, Okay, let's let's look at

Kiera (06:43)

Yeah.

Ryan (06:44)

your numbers, and I'll say, Well, you your new patient numbers are actually you know up five percent this month. But how so they're like, well,

You know, what do we need to do? And I'm like that, you know, we gotta look at it from deeper than if you have holes in your schedule and your new patient numbers are strong, you know, it typically means that you're not having treatment accepted. And that's why the doctor's schedule is open or you have cancellations, things like that. So when you start to actually take and unpill the onion of these numbers, you can take a look at it and say, Okay, there's a correlation between. So like when we look at correlating marketing numbers, we we we again we go to

Online conversions, we do phone call, the number of calls answered, and the total number of calls, then we look at the total number of new patients in production. And those three are independent numbers that if you're analyzing correctly, you can say, okay, I should have had based on my phone call, 100 new patients. based or I'm sorry, on on based on Google and my website, I should have had a hundred new patients. on my phone call I should have had ninety and I ended up with seventy. Well you can say, Okay, why did I end up with seventy when

marketing and phone set I should have had ninety to a hundred and you can start to dive in and look what's going on.

Kiera (07:53)

Interesting. Yeah. And I think so many practices think that marketing is harder than it really is, right? But you said like how are we answering the patients that are coming through? So is it a is it a awareness? Like, do we need more people to call us? Or is it a answer? Like, let's just pick up the phone and have the people that are there. Or is it when the people actually get in our doors, are we actually maximizing them, utilizing them, following up on the treatment that we're presenting and accepting? And like, is that the area? So it's almost like it sounds there's three bench points.

If people are wanting more of that awareness piece, Ryan, because I think that that's what a lot of them are looking for. They feel like they need more new patients. I agree. Look to see what you already have. And is it something that we like? Are we answering our phones enough? Are we closing the cases that we actually have? but like I have a practice, they don't have a huge patient base. Like they really don't have a large base. there's not enough for two dentists to be there. It is a little bit of a decline. And so they are really concerned because, like, yes, might have holds in the schedule. They're actually doing well. I have two practices.

They're

both doing very, very well. production is great, it's high, they're they're crushing it that way, but the base of patients is actually not enough to sustain two doctors. So that then becomes a like, we need a more of a volume. How do you uptick more of that volume? If, like, hey, we are doing well in our practice, numbers do look good, but we recognize this decline of patients. Like, how many patients do you recommend per GP doctor? And then what do they do if they need to get more of those patients in their database?

Ryan (09:14)

Yeah, so if you're like a PPO practice, you know, we look at anywhere from thirty to fifty new patients per doctor is kind of that that number. and again, we have practices that will s doctors have seen 75 new patients, we have some we're seeing 25. So it kind of just depends. But you want to look at thirty five thirty to fifty range is what we typically would see or recommend based on the data that we have. and so that's where your starting point is. But you kinda have to

look at it from a you know it's not about just driving patient volume it's driving the right patients and so you know one of the things is when you're when you're when we're analyzing a practice we say okay where is your most of your opportunity and so if hygiene is booking three weeks out or a month out or whatever then your opportunity could be within emergencies and so you want to acquire the right new patients in order to have that number grow. And so again if a practice needs you know a hundred new patients to that that's kind of the goal that they have.

you know you could have a percent of say 60% are hygiene, 40% are limited exams, you have to be able to understand that number before you start marketing. Otherwise what you're gonna do is you're gonna market to say like patients looking for hygiene, but you're still booking three to four weeks out when it's really the limit is that you need to. And so once you've figured out what kind of patient you need in the door, you need to be very quickly or be able to adapt to that quickly when things change. So you know maybe you bring on a hygienist and with you know in two weeks now your schedule's open to 20 more new patients.

So you need your marketing bill to adapt quickly. So one of the tools that we we use and that we have is able to look at your schedule and say, okay, we see that your first emergency patient is five days away. Well, that's the conversion of having a you know emergency five days out is gonna be very, very low. People want in today or tomorrow. And so you need to adapt the marketing then to get that. So you know it's about driving the right patient and also at

Times you can increase, and this is something that just doesn't get talked about enough, I think, in dentistry, especially now again with utilizing AIs. We have practices who are increasing their revenue significantly higher than their number of new patients because their production per new patient is up. So, in the last six months, we've seen the production per new patient climb to about 18 to 20 percent than it was last year, because again, we're getting in front of better patients that are for that practice. So, I think you just

Kiera (11:39)

Yeah.

Ryan (11:39)

have to kind of

You gotta analyze your practice first and then build your marking around that.

Kiera (11:44)

Yeah, and I think like it feels like I just want the diet pill, Ryan. Like I don't want to go it like look at all this. Like I just want you to give me more new patients. I want to have enough at bats. I don't want to have to

Ryan (11:51)

Yeah.

Kiera (11:53)

go dig into that. But I think like I think Ryan's point today, and I think for a lot of practices out there is you might not actually need more new patients. You might just need to better utilize the patients you have. And they always

talk about like,

Ryan (12:02)

Mm-hmm.

Kiera (12:03)

how do you actually increase a practice? Well, we either increase our patient base, we increase our dollar per like our transaction value per patient.

or we like add more locations, right? There's not like a ton of different levers, but I think so many people just feel if I just get enough new patients on my books, we're good. Ryan, to that, what do you feel is the correct size? So I'm a GP doctor. How many patients do I need in my database? Like I hear the new patients I need 35 to 50, but how many do I need to have to be a healthy practice before I add another doctor? Because I sometimes think when we add other doctors, we don't actually have enough patient flow.

Or we don't have a big enough base to be splitting. And I think that can also be a cause. So what do you tend to see is the correct base for patients? Like, I need this amount as a healthy GP practice. So maybe I do need more new patients. And I'm seeing obviously looking at the attrition rate too. Are we reappointing these patients? Are we keeping these patients? Cause we could have our front door doing a good job, but our back door is wide open. What should their like base be for the last 12 to 18 months that you typically see for practices?

Ryan (13:02)

Yeah, that's a good question. So we advise practices a lot on hiring doctors, bringing on associates, adding op rooms, expanding, or bringing on high hy hygienists. And so I'll tell you how we look at it first and then give you some numbers with it. So what we typically do is we start to manage demand or look at demand. And so that's the very first thing is in an area, what is your demand? And so we can use some of the tools we have to say, okay, you again you're seeing 50 new patients. we believe your demand is 70 right now, so we know there's 20

patients out there that could feed a new doctor or hygienist or whatever that would be. and so that's the the first thing is understanding if you want to add on a doctor but your demand is you have no demand to do that, you need to build that demand up first to to be able to do that. And so we you know that that number's kind of there's numbers all over that kind of tell you that people say of how many patients I should have. It really varies between depending on the practice. From we look at from a high like a hygienist standpoint,

When a hygienist starts to see seven hundred patients, that's that's a a red flag and that we see right there. From a doctor standpoint and active patients, it's it's a pretty wide number. and so because it you could we have practices that are having production per patient of like per visit of three hundred dollars, and we have some that are like eight hundred dollars. And so that really

Kiera (14:22)

Mm-hmm. Right.

Ryan (14:24)

changes that number of what you should be seeing. so again, you wanna kinda look at it from a demand standpoint

first and then determine so you know if a practice comes to us and we'll usually advise them ahead of time say okay you are we know that you have you could see we have a our our AR program will tell us how many new what your new patient demand is versus what your new patient is so say we see the demand at 200 and you're getting 100 new patients. Well we know there's a hundred more you can get well how do you what do you do then? Do you add on a doctor? Do you add on a hygienist do you expand? Do you go get an earlocation whatever that is

that's how we look at it is we first look at that demand number. And now if a practice wants to grow and again their number is 100 and they're at like you know their demand's 100 and they're 100 new patients now but they want to add on you have to build that demand before you make that decision.

Kiera (15:18)

Yeah, which I think is a a very interesting way to look at it. And I think people just wanna know like what is my what is my space? And so it sounds like in order for them to know that if I'm doing three hundred dollars per patient, what are you tending to see? Or if I'm doing eight hundred, I think the reason I'm asking like Ryan, sorry, to like a broken record on it, is because I feel like so many people I'm just gonna speak for the general public. They're gonna be a bit more lazy and they're not gonna wanna go do this. And so they're gonna constantly be saying, like, I just need more patients.

And so today I was trying to educate them on like, okay, if I am getting 300 per patient, how many patients do I need to have on average? If I'm getting 800 for it, yes, I hear that they could do more per that. But I think like just speaking from dentists that I work with across the board, a lot of them, I'm not here to say my our population's lazy. I'm just here to say that they're very busy, right? And so it's it feels easier to just push the button of like hire a marketing company, just get me more new patients rather than let me go dig through the data. Of course, people can hire you.

but just have like general like general metrics, like I say, like overhead should be around like 50%. and your payroll

Ryan (16:20)

Mm-hmm.

Kiera (16:20)

should be around 30%. I think if people can have some simple benchmark metrics today of like, okay, if I'm doing 300 per patient or like I know I need to get 30 to 55 new patients per GP doctor, like got it. if I need to look at my patient base, I need to have I don't know, 1400 to 2000, like how many do you guys usually recommend for that for one GP doctor? Then once I like know like those are in a good spot.

Let's then look at our call conversion rate and let's see how we're doing. Then let's look at our diagnosis and our case acceptance. I just wanted to try to give people some data points today of like what can they do? So so yeah, they can they can answer that.

Ryan (16:52)

Yeah, no, that makes sense. Yeah. We don't we don't do

so yeah, we don't do a recommendation on active patients per doctor, because of the fact that it it's it's too

If if we were to do that, there's too many variables that would mess up the equation. Because if w depending on what an active patient is and how much that active patient actually has produced and things like that, we we don't that's why we go we focus off of looking at the hygienist

Kiera (17:19)

I see.

Ryan (17:19)

number and we look at the total doctor. The active patient number is the most deceptive number, I think, in a dentistry catalog. So if you use that number, you're gonna make a wrong decision, I believe. So we don't look at that one.

Kiera (17:31)

So you would say then for them, like, let's just do the laundry list of bullet points. I need thirty-five to fifty-five new patients per GP. What other ones would you say of like what's their healthy scorecard for them to look to see, like, all right, do I need more new patients or can I like just dig into the ones that I already have while maximizing what we're getting?

Ryan (17:49)

Yeah, so you know, we c we do put some benchmarks on revenue. So, you know, if we look at like a one doctor practice, eight hundred thousand minimum. That's

Kiera (18:03)

Mm-hmm.

Ryan (18:03)

that's kind of if you're below that, there's some issues there. And so unless you're growing, I mean that's a startup server story. But if you're an established practice and you're below eight hundred thousand, there's an issue. So like eight hundred thousand Yes, mm-hmm. Yep, so

Kiera (18:12)

And that's like year to date production, right? Like we're talking year to date production. Yeah. And that's gonna be on net,

not gross. So don't be going in. I it's Ryan Gross, but do not be looking at gross numbers. Be looking at the net numbers. Okay. Cause some people I had a doctor

Ryan (18:21)

Yes, correct. Uh-huh. Yeah. So

Kiera (18:24)

the other day and she's like, We're like at one point nine and our collections are at one point one. And I was like, Whoa, we either have a

Ryan (18:29)

That that's your clut yeah.

Kiera (18:31)

a collection issue or we have a write-off

Ryan (18:33)

Yeah.

Kiera (18:34)

and we need to be reporting these in net, not gross. So okay, perfect.

Ryan (18:37)

Yeah.

So then once we see a a practice get to say one point two million in collections, we we will typically tell them in advance, you know, hey, start looking at expansion or another doctor, single be another doctor, or specialty services, like move into more of a general or super GP type thing. So one point two is that next one. And then when you add on a second doctor, now you're sitting at like say one point nine to two point one, two point two million there. So then you know.

You kind of start to scale that when you go up. So then you know, a three doctor practice, you know, 2.8 million, three million. and so you want to start to kind of look at those. You just you can use it as a scale. So that's how I would look at it is what are you producing? But again, if you're a fee for service practice, that's going to be a completely different number. But you know, let's stick to

Kiera (19:30)

Yeah.

Ryan (19:31)

I guess a majority of these practices are are insurance PPO based. So that's what we

Kiera (19:34)

Totally.

Ryan (19:34)

would look at. and then again, number of new

Patients. We look at retention as well.

Kiera (19:40)

Mm.

Ryan (19:40)

that's that's a big piece there. And you know, I get that question, well, what's a good retention rate or percent? And that's all over the board because

Kiera (19:47)

Yeah.

Ryan (19:48)

it's really there's so many things. If you are a heavy emergency practice, you're gonna have less retention just because of the fact that they're one and done. But there's a lot of money to be made in the emergency business, and so you know, I have a lot of practice saying, Well, I don't like emergencies because they don't stay. The average emergency is

Is worth we see three times the production in the first month than the average hygiene patient. So there's a lot of revenue to be made through emergencies. So again, it kind of just looking at so a benchmark we just look at as production per appointment or collections per appointment. I want to see that above $400. That's the first thing. From a new patient, I want to see it as and the new patient we categorize in the first month would be eight to nine hundred dollars. So then in the first three months.

Months, we see that from $1,200 to $1,500. So there's some benchmarks there. If you are a super GP and you're doing surgical, we've seen practices at in the first three months of $25,000 to $3,000 of production per new patient. So

Kiera (20:52)

Well.

Ryan (20:52)

there's some breakdowns there. If you are below $400 per total per collections per total appointment, that's a red flag. And if you're below $800 per new patient the first month, that's a red flag.

Kiera (21:05)

Absolutely.

No, that's super helpful. And

I hope people were able to take that and like put it in there because I know all of us, like so many people are like, well, what should be normal? How should this be? And so I think that was a really good clarifier of how how things should look for you. And again, like Ryan said, I I feel like this is where I get annoyed with marketing. Ryan, no, no shade to you over there. but it's always like this like it feels like a black box and like a very deep rabbit hole. And I'm like, I just want patience, right? Like that's really what I'm looking for.

But I think Ryan brought up a lot of our areas where if practices do a little bit more digging and like, hey, what is our answer rate? What is our new patient show rate? what is our conversion rate when we do have those patients in here? You might not actually need as many patients as you think you do. And you could have a lot smaller of a practice and still be just as successful as one who has a lot of patients but has a very large back door. And like you said, retention, retention, retention, right? Like sometimes offices, they are shelling patients out the back door and I'm like, whoa, just like close that up.

But they might be too busy or they might not want them or they might be

Ryan (22:02)

Mm-hmm.

Kiera (22:03)

wanting to cut insurances. and so I think that it's such a like you said, it is a black hole. There are a lot of pieces, but Ryan, I love the perspective that you brought. I am curious, moving into like today, we're airing the episode. So this is stamped time marked in 2026. What would you say practices like what are the top one, two or three things like with AI coming into play, with looking at marketing that you think could set offices up for massive success within their marketing realm coming into twenty twenty seven?

Ryan (22:30)

Yeah, so you know, from a from a digital marketing standpoint, I think what you're gonna start to see is the transformation of how people

choose a practice is it's I don't think it's gonna be significant but it's gonna be pretty I think it's gonna be could be significant. So right now it takes less than five minutes for a patient to search for a practice online, typically using Google, and then choose to try to call or schedule online with that practice. So it's less than five minutes. Ninety two percent of dental patients still go to the website. So reg you know a lot of people say, well, you know, they just call, they they're not going to the website, they call me on Google Blue. So well it's not it's 92% go to the website still

from a new patient standpoint. And so what I think you're gonna see is the refinement of, and you're gonna already start to see this in AI, especially with like sales, online sales, making it very easy to purchase. That's what you're gonna see from a dentist standpoint is they want to go from a very quick search, whether it's in Google, Gemini, Claude, ChatGPT, getting to scheduling extremely quickly. That's already sped up

prior to AI, and we're seeing that is people don't want to wait. They want to schedule very quickly using online scheduling,

Kiera (23:44)

Mm-hmm.

Ryan (23:44)

chatbots. Chatbots are still not there yet, but I think they're gonna be the future. and then calls. You know, phones are not gonna go away. That's still the leading conversion point for all practices is phones, not schedule online. And so you're gonna take and be able to customize your your patient experience using AI to if someone does a

search or an AI search that they're going to a website that's that's almost dynamic to their experience to get them to convert. So if they're looking for say clear liners in Visa lines, it's very quickly going to get them to the opportunity to have a consultation. Rather than having to think through the the read through the information, the data is going to be presented to them in the form that they're most likely to convert with. And so I think you're going to start to see some type of dynamic websites. We actually built out our websites have a base tool that is

can adapt to the market of the area. So if your market changes to being more emergency-based, the website's going to adapt to that. I think that's going to speed up very quickly where what you're going to have is someone who's searching for whatever it is that they're looking for in the dentistry space. It's the site is almost going to be catered to them. And so that's where I think it's going to go in the next one to two years.

Kiera (25:02)

That's amazing. And Ryan, thank you for that because I don't disagree with you. I think that those are big pieces right now of how can offices stand out. Like online scheduling, I'm like, just like online payments, like those two things, guys. We are in 2026. And if you're not doing that, that is a very tricky world to be in. I do definitely agree with you. Like, we gotta get that in place. and then I love that you say that like we still have to answer phones. Like dentistry is such a human interactive piece, and so many people like you still hear them like,

It's AI, like I just want to talk to a real human on the other side. And so I think that that will be something that will come through. But I really, really love that you pointed those out and for people to get on board. Ryan, you guys use so much for the world of marketing. You guys do a lot for dental practices. If people are interested in you have this very data-driven approach, and I think a lot of practices are fascinated by it. It's very different. I love that you were like, we don't actually have a metric for this. Like we don't actually talk about that way. We look to see what is this, we look at the data. What does your practice actually need?

Which is why we have recommended you guys multiple times for different practices. And again, marketing is just like consulting and there's so many great companies out there. Who do you resonate with and who has consistently shown and proven results time and time again? Go chat with them. So Ryan, if people are interested or want to know more and like work with Grapevine, how do they connect with you? How do they learn more about you guys?

Ryan (26:16)

Yeah, so if you go to MyGrapeVine.ai, you can fill out a form there and get connected with us, and then we'll do an analysis of your practice just to be able to see what needs to be done. You know, what you just said, there's a lot of marketing companies out there. And I think depending on the practice are, we don't work with all you know, the practices that come to us, because there's some who are looking for an experience that is gonna be more boutique experience. And that's something that I think you find a marketing company. There's some great ones out there that you know, you and I both know a really good company out there that does.

That's great, and we like to recommend to them as well of these beautiful websites. If you're looking for something that's more strategic and more data-driven, and you're wanting something that is going to adapt quickly to your market and your operations, you know, that's something that we have the ability to do. And if you go to so MyGrapeVine.ai, get in touch with us and we'll do an analysis of all of your data, your numbers, and see how you're performing and how your market's performing more importantly, and what your opportunity is.

Kiera (27:12)

Which I love that. And like I said, Ryan, there are marketers for all different sizes and shapes. And there are same thing with consultants. And I like I think Ryan, we're in the same boat, right? We're very analytic. We're very driven. It's tactical, practical. And Ryan, that's why I adore you guys. And so if you're interested in that, guys, go check out Ryan. it was MyGrapeVine.ai. I love that you grabbed the AI URLs. It's brilliant. and definitely go check it out. Guys, there's so many nuggets in here that you don't even need to go and change much up. I love that Ryan said that.

Me, I love the repurpose, reuse, recycle, honestly, analogy rather than pumping more money into it. And I know the easy button can feel easy today. but long-term longevity, if you know these metrics, these stats, it will take like it's an annoying, like this is your CE in marketing for you to learn this and learn this skill. All of us had to learn it. but taking a little bit of time digging in, I think you'll feel much more confident, just like you take in a CE with air quotes on it, learning your overhead and your numbers, you then become much more confident on making data decisions.

rather than emotional decisions and Ryan. That's what I like about you guys. So Ryan, any last thoughts as we wrap up today?

Ryan (28:16)

No, I appreciate the time and w I d I do have one last thought is you know, we we work with practices you know

similar practices and one of the things is I think if you have somebody like your team advising and helping practices, it is instrumental right now. Even with AI out there, having the ability to someone teach and monitor your team and talk to them and and break through those problems deeper than what we can do is tremendous. So I do want to say, you know, just just to s to say, hey, if if there's anybody out listening to this who hasn't worked with you, contact because the practices that we work on together do do very well because they're

there's that one-two punch of marketing and operational guidance and how to actually get your front team, your front office and to to operate at the level that they need to be. And so I can't say enough about the practices that you've helped that we work with as well.

Kiera (29:07)

Thank you, Ryan, for that. And agreed. We have a good synergy together. we've had a great time. And it's true. A lot of times our consultants will even join the marketing calls with your team. And we're hearing it. We're able to then drive the results within the team dynamic and within the doctor. So thank you for that shout out and agreed. We we have a really good synergy working back and forth. I love to see the stats of the practices we share together. definitely, guys, go check out Ryan. He's an incredible friend, he's an incredible marketer.

All things data driven. Like you said, I agree. We all know these really beautiful websites, but to me, I am all about results. You guys know if you're listening to the podcast, you Dental A Team equals results. Same thing with marketing. I'm not gonna pay for marketing just to have beautiful things. Like that's not Kiera's style. I am here like you better freaking get me leads. We better have it and know why. And if we're not, what are we gonna do to pivot it? I don't wanna just keep putting money into a an empty hole thinking that I'm doing something, but I'm not actually getting the results for it. So

Reach out to Ryan. Ryan, thanks for joining me. It's been too long. Super happy to have you on the podcast. Always enjoy our time together.

Ryan (30:03)

Thanks. Thank you, Kiera, I really appreciate it and thanks for having me.

Kiera (30:06)

Of course. All right. And for all of you listening, don't just listen today. Go take action on something. I don't care what it is. I don't care if it's you choose to go look at one of these numbers or you decide you're going to like look at our answer rate or you're going to reach out to Ryan or you're going to add consulting. I don't care what it is, but take action because the enemy of having what you want, like you are literally one decision away from a completely different life. So make that decision today. Make your life better. And always, thanks guys for listening. And I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.

Kiera takes a spin on profit growth by talking about a tactic many people don't consider: strategic partnerships. This means looking at the community around you, those in your field and outside of it, and learning to refer and support one another. Kiera's tips will help even the most introverted person begin to utilize their network.

Episode resources:

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Transcript:

Kiera (00:00)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera. And today I want to talk about something really fun. We talk about it in our mastermind groups with our clients. and it is like your network is your net worth. And so how strategic partnerships, you might not even be thinking this is a completely different, innovative way for you to grow your practice in a very easy, effective way. And so I'm super excited about it because a lot of times we just think that like the only way for us to grow our practice is to do more, hire another team member, or

To like just I think it's that GSD, which I'm very grateful that you have. but sometimes it's not even about that because sometimes there are other people around you that can actually elevate you, can grow you, can grow your practice, and that's through your network. And so really it's going to be about what are maybe the some of the partnerships you've you've forgotten, or maybe some of the partnerships we could rekindle that actually might help you elevate. Now, for somebody who you guys might think is very extroverted human, I am very extroverted, but you better believe we were just talking about an event.

I love to speak, you guys. I love to be on stage. but I am very much somebody that doesn't always love to be a porcelain doll on stage. And I know that might come as a shock for some of you, but like when I go to events, I'm like, the happy hour networking time is like my most stressful time of all of it. Like I love to have a conversation, I love to talk to people. It also stresses me out to no end. So just hearing that I recognize that what I'm about to talk to today.

might be foreign for some of you. For some of you, it might be the easiest thing and you might be like, Kiera, this is a great idea. for those of you who might be a little Kiera-esque or maybe a little less Kiera and like way less extroverted, just know that you don't have to do everything. But one of these things even can help you tremendously. And I just think it's a really fun way. Again, we talk about so many things and there's so many places of like grow your practice with this, grow your practice with marketing. I thought partnerships was a really fun spin on a great way for you to possibly grow your practice, grow your net worth. And you never know

Who your network's gonna bring into your place. Like, truly, my next door neighbor was Shelbi. Shelbi now is my EA, and she's absolutely incredible. there's been several people that I've just happeningly randomly met that have made my life exponentially better by being connected. And there's people that are way more connected. So, this is also a podcast for Kiera Dent. So it's all for you guys, but truly, I just want you to know that strategic partnerships really can be a benefit for you. If you're new to the podcast, hi, I'm Kiera. I hope I can be your best friend in dentistry. I truly am here to help you in whatever way possible.

I am obsessed with all things Dental. Our team is obsessed with it. I've built a team of consultants that truly their passion is to make you successful. We believe that running a successful practice should be fun and easy. And so I'm so happy you're here. For all of you OGs who have been listening, thank you. I hope you just give yourself like a little squeeze. Like give yourself a little squeeze and know I'm giving you a giant hug and saying thank you so much for your support, for being on the journey. And hey, if you're obsessed with us like I'm obsessed with you, go leave us five stars because your reviews are what ultimately are gonna make us.

continue to reach more people, be one of the top podcasts in the dental industry. And I just want to say thank you for making Dental A Team that I try to provide value for you. We're here all the time for you, three days a week, giving you practical, tactical tips. And we've been doing it for shoot. Like five years, six years, so long. So thanks for being on the journey. I'm obsessed with you and I hope that you remember dentistry is the greatest profession you could ever be in. Let's continue to make it great together. with that said, I hope that you know that like number one on this is we got to build referral relationships. So that's

Beyond sending patients. So I know a lot of you might have relationships with specialists. So I know a lot of people listening to our GP practices, also on the specialist side. there is a doctor that works with us, one of my dear friends, and he's a periodonist, and he literally is like the mayor of our town. He knows every single dental practice. He is always at offices, he's always driving around, meeting people, taking them to dinner, knows all the best restaurants in town. And that's what specialists have to do. And I think sometimes generalists don't realize that like you connecting and knowing all of your community.

really can drive like I text him at any time I'm like, hey, who's got the best hands in dentistry in our area? And he's like, you want to talk to this person? You meet somebody else. They know that person. Like he's so interconnected. And I just think like how amazing is that because he is referring back and forth. He's always looking for ways to connect somebody else. And I have found that when people come to the mastermind, that's something they tell me that they're obsessed with. So like all of our clients get together and we're like, my gosh, John, you need to go talk to Kevin and Kevin, you need to go meet Jamin. And Jamin, you need to go meet

Susie, like all of them connecting together. That's the same thing that you should be doing. So this is when like a partnership is broken and maybe we're being a little bit more of a user rather than a a giver on it, is if we only reach out when we need something, or we only have minimal communication with that specialist when we're referring a patient there, or we have very little collaboration on patient care. When it's thriving of a successful partnership, it's building that relationship with the specialist. It's connecting when we refer offices, it's communicating about our shared patient.

And it's creating a mutual trust. And so that can be as much as going over and saying hello. Like I have a doctor who was trying to get sleep. And I was like, get out of your office and go say hello. And she's like, I just don't want to, Kiera. And I was like, I know. I don't want to do half of this either. You guys think I enjoy being on video for the podcast? I absolutely do not, but you're welcome. Go say hello and say thank you on Instagram. Like, I hate being on video, but guess what? This is part of the name of the game. This is what I signed up with when I became a business owner. It doesn't mean you have to do everything, but I promise you, you go start to say hi, they know who you are.

Think about your neighbors. Like if you know your neighbors that refer people to you. I have a neighbor, I went and met our whole neighborhood. She literally watches for my packages every single time I'm out of town. That was a great strategic partnership, if you will, that benefits my life so much. I'm able to help her out with her kids. But we want this mutually referring. It shouldn't be a one-sided space. So I will say that when I've seen doctors, especially GPs and also specialists, you've got to build this. And there was a doctor who is a specialist, he's like, Kiera.

Is there any way for me as a specialist not to need my GP doctors? And I was like, unfortunately, no, we work in a we work in a referring basis. And so how do you become the person? It's like the lawyers or whomever in your town, how do you become that person that when they need a dentist or they need a referral, you are the first name that comes to mind? I want my specialist to be thinking about you as a dentist, not all the 50 other ones. Remember, people like pull out of their pocket what's familiar to them. So I want you to just know that like this is a reality, this is a space.

I want you to be the trusted partner and having that, it really will drive new patients. Also, you could go look at your new patient referrals and see how many of those are coming from specialist or from referral partners. If you don't have very many of them, it might be a good c key indicator for you to say, Hey, I need to go make more friends. I need to go build these stronger relationships. It's over time. It's not something of like, and please know there's a book called The Go Giver by Bob Burry. We had him on the podcast. If you didn't listen to that podcast, go listen to it. I was a fangirl that day.

but that's a book that was what I started the company on. And the go-giver is we are always giving more value than we expect. So I'm not going to meet these people hoping that they send me referrals. I'm going to find out what value can I give them, how can I support them? How can I grow their business? And in return, it always comes back to you. So I would encourage each of you to refer reach out to like one referral partner. every single month you could even like put it in your calendar. So you just have a rotating basis. Maybe it's I meet this person, and then in three months I reach back out to them.

staying top of mind, doing whatever we possibly can to make their life easier. and doing it not because you need something, but because you genuinely are interested in building this amazing relationship with them. step two on this would be like surround yourself with advisors who challenge you. So it doesn't just need to be within our industry. it needs to also be within your advisory board. And so thinking about like when you make every decision alone, maybe you don't have an advisory board. Waiting until there's a crisis to ask for help or feeling isolated as an owner, that might tell you you don't have an advisory board. And so

Successful owners, I see, like not just within referring partners within dentistry, but they also have a nice advisory board with their CPA, their attorney, banker. Like literally one of my friends who's a multi million pushing the billion, true friend, met him on Craigslist. I kid you not. he is now dating his banker. And I was like, How do you know your banker? Like, no one in the bank knows me. I'm not in there. And he was like, yeah, Kiera, I go make relationships with all of them.

And I thought about that. That led him to somebody he's now dating. But I thought about all these people. This guy is hyper connected, multi-million. I will say his business is larger than any dental practice owner I have ever met. So knowing that, let's take notes from these very successful people, knows every single person. And he's not a super outgoing guy. He just knows he needs to have these strategic partnerships within his life. What about marketing experts? How are you in the marketing world? What about technology partners? Do you know any of them? Do you like I have another friend.

Very successful business. He's yeah, I know the like CEO of HubSpot. Let me just send their name right over to you. I need to take a note from all of my friends and say, Kiera, get your booty out there and go start meeting these people. And then also consultants. Do you have a consultant? We are hyper-connected people. I know I'm like ragging on myself here. I have a Rolodex of so many people that I know, so many people we can connect you to, whether that's a dentist in the industry or the best in the best. I'm constantly betting them. You guys hear some of them on the podcast. Others I reserve only for our internal clients, but truly.

Do you have these people? Because every person that you know is your bench and then they know people and they can connect you to this person. I have a really great friend who is a CPA who is billionaire family office CPA, who knows a ton of people. I had an issue with our trademark, and I just texted him and said, like, hey, who do you know that's the best in the industry for a trademark lawyer? Sent me one of the best people that I could have ever asked for and had an amazing experience. So again, don't just think about I need these people for dental patient relationships.

They could like a lot of these people will actually refer to you. I can tell you how many of our dentist friends are like, Hey, I have a patient, they're moving. Well, great, who's in that area? We're gonna refer them to that dentist. That's awesome. But how many of your marketing people, how many of the people locally, your banks, you become the town mayor, people know you, you know the people in dentistry. You start to then have all these people around you that can help you make the best decisions. So, with this said, I have found that like people who have a very good advisory bench.

is also our best performing practices. They're great with their CPA. They them. They want all their numbers dialed in. They've got a relationship with their marketer. They know it. They their stats. They know their numbers. I asked them. They're good with that. They know their financial advisors forward and backwards. They got a great relationship there. But they're talking to these people. And again, yes, you use them for tech. They also have a consultant. I forgot that one. Sorry guys. True. Hey, hi. We can be on your advisory board and help you out. but those people who have it, you're not just using them for their knowledge like you are.

But also, these people are gonna refer to you. It is this whole like human referrals are the transactions of great business owners. And it's doing it not because I need to, but because I want to. And I'm gonna get you connected to the best of the best. And we all know each other. It's like a connecting the dots. And so for you, I just want you to realize that isolation slows growth. Collaboration is going to accelerate it. So this might not be a direct referral to your patient base, but it is a direct referral to your network faith. And so getting that place. So I want you just to think about what's in a business relationship.

That you've been neglecting that you need to reconnect this quarter or add to your advisory board. I listed them off for you. If you don't have that advisory board, start working to get that advisory board for you. So you're not making every decision alone. You've got great people on it. They will refer to you, they help you out, they will connect you to the best of the best. I my CPA, he's got me connected to our insurance person. Like I'm telling you, these people are so valuable. Somebody told me that, Kiera, I love working with you because you're literally a Rolodex. Like, hey, I need help with You're like, I know the best person for this. You need people like that in your life.

Just like I talk to a realtor and I'm like, who do you who's the best painter or the best electrician or the best this or that? They've got a network of people. You talk to somebody building homes, that contractor, they know the best of the best of the best. But people aren't willing to just give that to you just because. Like I had a friend reach out to my brother-in-law who builds these incredible homes. He's like, Could I get your sub list of all your subs? He's like, Absolutely not. Like he knows that that's a big portion of his business that actually is what makes him so successful. He's not just gonna give it to just like I'm not gonna give you guys every one of my people that I'm gonna refer to.

I like you, but also I recognize that like I'm only referring these people because I want to refer good people and be a great referring partner. I like you. I just don't know if you're the right fit for them. So just know a lot of times things are also gate kept until you work with these people. And it's not intentional, it's just relationships. And I want to connect you with the best. I was at the gym, had this girl, we were talking about things. She's like, my gosh, let me connect you to this person. Like truly get to know people because that's gonna be the benefit that like that's your that's your

Path to success. So if you want the easier path, get your network up. and then another piece is choose partners that make your team better. So looking at this of like partnerships should truly save you time. Like these are the ones we're paying for, these are the ones we're we're having in. The best ones improve execution. So they should save you time and they should improve your execution. So when we're looking at it, like these are vendors, these are labs, these are supplies, technology. So I want you to make sure, like, are you looking at your stack? Like, are we using our vendors?

Not because we've always used them, but because they're the best. Do I have ongoing education? Like, am I making sure that we're continuing to grow? Do we have our technology fully implemented and are we using it? And if not, like let's get rid of it. And like, what am I doing to make sure those those vendors are truly being maximized and executed and I'm using them? Like I have some clients that don't even reach out to us and I'm like, no, no, no. You we should be hearing from you like every single week, whether we have a call or not. Like you need to be using us constantly to make sure we're elevating you and growing you. So with that said, I would

I would definitely look at your tech stack right now. I'd look at the vendors you're using and see, am I using the supplier up just because I've always used them? Or is it because they're the best of the best and I'm always getting the best deals? Are my supplies at 5% or not? What about my labs? Are those at 9% or less? If not, if I need to talk to other dentists, find out who the best lab person is, what are their fees? I had a financial advisor that I was paying one and a half percent. You guys might be losing your eyeballs. I was too. Got it down to point eight percent. Met another financial advisor who works with much higher net worth people.

0.25%, better quality, better services, better rate, but that came from talking to people. That person's not advertising themselves. They're only taking on certain clients. And this is what I found is when you get into those elite levels, they're not there massing and marketing to the masses. They are literally held back and people only refer their best of the best. Like there are certain people that I will not refer publicly anymore. But if I know you and I know this person's going to benefit you, I will refer. But again, it's because I know only a certain clientele that person will take on.

So I can't just say like, go meet Johnny. No, it has to be that. So again, look at your vendors, look at your platforms and see are these maximizing me? And if not, might be time to make a change. So I would really recommend you to look at your current vendors and ask who's helping us grow and who's simply providing a service. Now, simply providing service can be totally fine, but I just want you to reevaluate it. So there's three tiers of partnerships, right? Number one is our dental referring partnership. Number two is our advisory board. And number three are our vendors and our suppliers.

And looking at that to see of all these people who's helping us. So I want you to remember your network is your net worth. Be surrounded by people that are smarter than you. If you don't have a group of dentists that wrote grow you, inspire you, make you smarter. Like we just had a mastermind back in February. We're about to have another one in September. And it was fascinating because people took ideas from that of multi-million startups.

And they implemented it. And it's been crazy to hear over six months how people talk about these implementations that they learn from each other. We had another one. We have a monthly mastermind. They were talking about AI. So many people were able to get AI tips and tricks from each other by being a part of it. If you are the smartest person in your group of friends of dentists or your advisory board, you need a bigger pond to swim in. I hope you heard that. You cannot be the smartest one in the group. Go get a bigger group. If we can be that group for you, amazing. Our dentists share with each other. We meet every single month, we meet twice a year in person, and you have a consultant.

That literally comes to your office or works directly with your team. Like, what more could you ask for? This is what I begged for as an owner, and we've created it for you with the best of the best. People that want to give, want to make you successful. And you are not in a room where people are better or worse. Everybody's equal. Everybody has something to give, everybody has something to take, and that's what we're here for. Be in a group of people. Your network is your net worth. And I want you to always remember that. So look at who's in your corner. Are they helping you build your practice?

Do you need to maybe make some changes? Do you maybe need to elevate your friendship group? How can we get these partnerships? I would go look at these three areas. Get a referring partner that's in dentistry. Get an advisor and check your vendors to make sure all of them are benefiting you. And hey, if we can help you out, reach out. [email protected]. I'm obsessed with you guys. I'm obsessed with making your life easier. We're obsessed with being the best of the best of the best for you. So reach out. I'm happy to help you in any way possible. Whether it's just a friend, maybe like Kiera, who are those referrals? Well, depending upon who you are, maybe it is.

And I don't say that to say I gatekeep from people. I say that because I genuinely value the relationships I have. I will not put anyone on the podcast unless I've vetted them. I do not share people unless they're the best. And I have to own that sometimes they could be the best when I first put them on the podcast and they no longer are the best. And that's just how it works. I believe that businesses every single day, we have to win our patience over, we have to win our reputation over, and we gotta continue to stay the best or we will be be out. And that is something Dental A Team is very committed to. So

If you don't have someone on your advisory board that you know you can bank on who will give you the no nonsense, no BS answers, I'm here for you. So reach out. [email protected]. Go make the changes. Get your strong net worth. Get a little more brave. Like be like my friends. And I'm going to take notes from them too. All of us are here. And I want you just to be 1% better. Not perfectly better, but 1% better. You can do it. Your patients need you. You need it. And it's very helpful to have people that you know you can count on when things don't go right.

And you know you can have people that can celebrate you when things do go right. So get that net worth. I promise you it's worth it. Go reach out. Let us know if we can help you in any way. And as always, thanks for listening. I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.

So you have the basics down on practice organization and systemization, but still manage to fall short of your goals? Tiff and Kristy discuss the three most common pitfalls plaguing these offices, and how to climb out of them with clear, tactical guidance.

Episode resources:

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Transcript:

Tiffanie (00:01)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners. I am so excited to be here with you today. I say that every single time, and I really truly am. This is Tiffanie or Tiff or Spiffy Tiffy, whatever you want to call me, with the Dental A Team. And we are here to bring you some incredible tips and tools today. And I've got my girl Kristy here with me today. She is, on the day of this recording, my Monday morning spice up, is what we'll call it. Kristy, I just told you to, but thank you for being my Monday girl. I really love starting my week.

with you, honestly and truly. So thank you for being here, Kristy. And I hope that you're excited. You came off of a restful weekend, it sounds like, which is incredible. how is how's life?

DAT- Kristy (00:42)

Yeah, I love that too. Thanks for being my Monday kickoff. So it's a good week. Hey, weather's cooling off. It we got some rain. It just it felt

Tiffanie (00:51)

Finally. Yeah.

DAT- Kristy (00:53)

like a staycation kind of weekend, watch movies, spend time with family, play games. So it was it was a good weekend. Yeah.

Tiffanie (01:03)

I love that. It is finally

cooling off and it's like our fall. Arizona gets like a mini fall. It'll get warm again and the rain will

DAT- Kristy (01:11)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (01:11)

dry up. But we love it. We've got like Halloween decorations going up and it's you know early, early in the in the month right now of recording this, it'll drop sometime in October. But it's fun to see all of that stuff start churning. And then as we travel into offices, I think Kristy, this is my favorite time of year to travel.

Because we don't get a lot of fall in Arizona. It goes straight from hot to like probably other people's fall, but our winter are like sixty five, you know, to fifty.

DAT- Kristy (01:41)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (01:42)

so when we travel and we get to see in offices, we love being in office with our clients. We absolutely love that. And we love getting to experience that fall. I think, Kristy, do you feel the same?

DAT- Kristy (01:52)

Yeah, I agree with you. We don't we don't see the leaves of the trees change color like a lot of the world the rest of the country does. So yes, it's very fun and to feel the difference in the different climates. So agree with you one hundred percent.

Tiffanie (02:05)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I was in Pennsylvania last week actually and yeah, and I was so excited and I usually go in December and I get there on like their first snow and I'm freezing cold and it's chaotic. But this year we decided to do the visit in September and which was perfect. And I got there and it was beautiful, perfect weather, and then it rained all night and the next morning was like

fifty two degrees and I was frozen.

DAT- Kristy (02:38)

Pretty.

Tiffanie (02:38)

I could not warm up for the entire day. And all the all the ladies at the office were like, Here's Arizona. Like you're just freezing your tail off. So it was fun,

DAT- Kristy (02:44)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (02:47)

but it was cold. It gets cold real fast.

DAT- Kristy (02:51)

Agree, one hundred percent. Yeah. The only bad thing is sometimes we don't carve out enough time outside the offices and then we don't get to enjoy it either. But it sure is fun while you're driving in and flying

in to see the different colors. So

Tiffanie (03:01)

Yeah. Yeah.

I agree. I ended up there were some communication tower issues with a couple of airports and so my flight had ended up getting completely cancelled, which is a little concerning. flying and and whatever. But I was, you know, just hellbent on getting to that office. And so I found another route and I actually flew into JFK, which was like a two hour drive. So when I got there it was night, I didn't get to see anything. But then when I left on Wednesday, just seeing the countryside out there is

so much different than anything we have on this side of the country. So driving the two hours between Pennsylvania and JFK was pretty cool. We have a we have a cool gig over here.

DAT- Kristy (03:41)

gonna say I love how you found the silver lining in that.

Tiffanie (03:43)

Yeah.

Yeah. And I've got finally I found the Yankees hat that I have been searching for forever in the color that I wanted. So that and then it was at the airport. I didn't even have to leave the airport. So wins all over for last

DAT- Kristy (03:57)

Win win.

Tiffanie (03:57)

week. Yeah, it was great. and actually the content that I want to chat with you about today, Kristy, is something that came out of that visit, honestly. It was something that I've been working with as practice for a really long time. Like honestly, I think.

like seven years or so, almost seven years. So we've done a lot of meetings. So these meetings continue to evolve. And we've always had some team turnover. Obviously I think everybody has team turnovers. So you can go through handoffs, you can do all of the things kind of like that back to basics. You end up doing that frequently with practices that have turnover. But this team actually

Has been pretty stable aside from a couple of front office positions, and they've gotten really good at training the team. This is the first time I walked in. I like I told them I was Mona Cry because the new team members that had only been there like between two to six weeks knew ICRP and NDTR handoffs. And I was like, what the heck? This is incredible. I don't have to talk handoffs for the first time in seven years with this practice. so with all of that though, we had I really had to dive in and dig deep to figure out, okay.

How do we level up from here? When you've got the basics pretty much down, but you're still, there's still just those areas where we're trying to increase, level up, or really hit those goals without thinking about it. I took a step back with them and I I made them dig in and think, what is the root cause of why we're not hitting these things if we have the systems? Like I'm not coming in every single time. And Kristy, I know you feel the same way when you've seen a practice for so long. There's

Only so much you can innovate and create a new system around and create this new fun, like, okay, let's do it this way. Sometimes we've got to go backwards and say, we already have all the systems. Now we've got to figure out what is it about the system that maybe isn't helping us reach that goal. And so we kind of came up with this thought process. I came up with this thought process around it of.

like

the three maybe three key things. I feel like one to three is like easy for us to remember, right? So I thought, is it a knowledge gap? Like is this system, do we not know how to use it? Do we not know why? Do we not know the steps to it? So is it a knowledge gap? Or I think the biggest knowledge gap that I found with them actually, Kristy, was like not knowing what the end result was supposed to be. And maybe so then it tied into okay, knowledge gap tied into may is it a systems gap? So does the system

need more information in it. Does that need to be tailored? Does it need to be leveled up itself or does it need to be recreated? And then is it an execution and accountability gap? So maybe

DAT- Kristy (06:37)

Mm-hmm.

Tiffanie (06:38)

we know how to do it, we know why it's got all the pieces, the system's clear, it's good, but we're just not using it. And there's no one like following up and holding accountable. So it really transformed a ton. And I wanted to chat about that a little bit, Kristy, because I think both of us can see

How work can get so stuck. And we just we feel like maybe we're running the rat race and we're on that wheel that's just spinning. We're not actually getting anywhere. Or sometimes I describe it as I feel like I'm just like hitting my head against a wall, but still doing the thing and running the definition of insanity, not necessarily taking a look back at it. And I think a lot of our doctors, Kristy, a lot of the doctors actually that you work with that we send over to you because I think you're really good at diving into this. Thank you for that.

I think that's one of those three things where they're stuck and they just don't know how to push forward. What are your thoughts, Kristy?

DAT- Kristy (07:31)

Yeah. Yeah,

I agree with you. I like how you simplified that down to the the top three reasons because I I truly believe it it does stem from that. the knowledge systems and execution again. But I always like to say if we're not getting the results we want, let's take a step back and look. all of our systems are pretty much a recipe, right? And did we stop following the recipe to a T?

Like somewhere along the line, we just threw out this step or forgot about this step or stepped over that step,

Tiffanie (08:07)

Yeah.

DAT- Kristy (08:08)

and now we're not getting the same results. So truly simplifying it and stepping back and going, is this still our recipe? And are

Tiffanie (08:16)

Yeah.

DAT- Kristy (08:17)

we following it? And if not, why not? What got in the way? Right. And then also, if we did follow it to a T, kind of back to what you said, Tiff, sometimes we might have to get a new recipe.

If we followed

Tiffanie (08:29)

Mm-hmm.

DAT- Kristy (08:30)

it to T and it's not getting the results, we may have outgrown that recipe. And so coming

Tiffanie (08:35)

Yeah.

DAT- Kristy (08:35)

up and having that communication, again, just taking that step back to really look at it. And I know there's studies out there for communication. They say, like, in the high 90% of most communication is understood out of the gate. So perfecting, I mean, we do a lot of talking every day, but still.

We have room to perfect even that communication. So I love how you said painting the end result, especially for our leaders and doctors. Like a team needs to really understand what is that end result we're looking for. And sometimes they don't have to have every single step lined out along the way. We just got to keep pointing to that end result. But if not, let's

Tiffanie (09:24)

Yeah.

DAT- Kristy (09:24)

pull out our recipes.

Tiffanie (09:26)

Yeah. I love that because you made me think actually of the recipe. I made bread yesterday. I have a bread maker. I'm not like one of those I can't, I don't have time for sourdough yet. I really want to learn how to do it. And I think it's really hard in Phoenix from what I hear. So kudos to everyone in Phoenix who's making sourdough because our weather does not do well with that. So, anyways, I have a bread maker. I have had this bread maker for I ten years.

You know, eight years somewhere around there, I would say a long time. And I have always just used the recipes, right? I've always just used the recipes. And I always have a little extra flour. Like I'll pull it out and I'm like, gosh, there's like crumbles, you know, and the crust is like fine. And I'm like, whatever. Like it's tastes good, right? And the inside of the bread's great, but the the crust is just like okay and it's a little misshapen. I'm like, whatever. I guess this is what it is, right? So let me just tell you yesterday.

I thought there's gotta be a freaking better way to use this stupid bread maker for the last 10 years. I've been doing the same thing from the little booklet that comes with it. I take a picture of the bread maker, I pop it into chat chat GPT, and I'm like, how do I make French white bread? Like just tell me how to make French

white bread. So chat takes me through the same recipe that I've been using, but then it says, What I would do is within about 10 minutes, op like look at the at the dough, and if it looks like this, add water.

If it looks like like add a teaspoon of water, blah blah blah, right? One, I didn't even know you could open the bread. I thought, don't touch it. Put it in there, don't open that bread maker. Like it's gonna like, it's like race, you know? Like, don't let the steam out. Like, do not open it. So I've never opened the bread maker while it was going. Never, 10 years. And then I open it and I'm like, lo and behold, this sucker needs more water. And I added the water, the entire family, entire family, three kids.

Beyonce, me, we were like, what is with this bread? This is the best bread you've ever made. Are you kidding me? Ten years, Kristy. That is the definition

DAT- Kristy (11:26)

Ha ha

Tiffanie (11:27)

of insanity. And that's what it makes me think of. Like, are we not opening the lid of the bread maker and seeing, is it dry? Is it too wet? Does it need more flour? Does it need more water? Like we're we're making a system, putting it on pen and paper, typing it up and saying, This is the system, this is how we're gonna do it. So go execute and do it.

And

we execute, especially for an office, I love you, but we're really good at being like, Well, that's the system we're gonna do it because we're busy. And so we don't oftentimes like open the bread maker and be like, Well, are we getting that result? Like, is my bread lumpy? Do I have leftover flour? Like sometimes it's even like a little like flour burnt on the side, and I'm like, whatever. I guess that's how this works, right? But sometimes it's like, well, we like.

didn't quite get the result that we wanted and maybe even burned a couple patients with what we were doing. But this is how we're supposed to do it. So we don't open the lid and think, what if I what if I add something, take something away? Like what if I just manipulate it a little bit to get a better result? And Kristy, your your recipe definition, that's what it made me think of because this practice, one of their goals that we set up, one of their quarterly rocks we set up for them was they really wanted to increase the

percentage of new patients coming from referrals because they're spending a ton of money in marketing and they're still not generating the new patients that they necessarily want. And they're down internal referrals by about 5% from what we want them to be. Kristy, you know what we figured out? Their referral gift, they had this great idea. I love the idea for the referral gift, but no one, 17 people in the room, like no one would knew the exact

verbiage or what the gift was. There's three choices for the gift. They didn't know, some of them didn't know they had the patients had a choice. Some of them didn't know that it was on the new patient paperwork. Some of them didn't know how to talk about it. And I was like, here we go. So we've got this really cool system that at some point we created, we're not getting the result that we wanted. And they almost revamped. They were like, well, maybe we need to give a different gift. And I said, well, is

DAT- Kristy (13:38)

no.

Tiffanie (13:39)

it the gift or is it that nobody

Does everybody know what the gift is? Like, do you know what the options are? And most of them didn't. So we left the system, but added the knowledge to the system and the clear, tangible result. Lifted up that bread maker and we're like, there's two options here. Nobody even knew about that everyone needed clarity on. So to your point, Kristy, that recipe just needed like a couple of tweaks. And now they've moved from knowledge.

They gained the knowledge on what the heck the system was. They revamped the basics or they left the basics, revamped and added in the knowledge that they just gained to the system. And now they're at the execution and the accountability stage of it.

DAT- Kristy (14:26)

Yeah, I love that. And I love you know, we always have to take it one step further at the end and make sure we understand now, guys, now that we all are on the same page, how will we know if it's working? What will we measure and get aligned on that? And also to your point too, Tiff, sometimes it's it's well, many most times it's identifying who's gonna be responsible for which parts of the recipe too,

Tiffanie (14:53)

Yes.

DAT- Kristy (14:54)

right?

And I also, you know, most of anybody that's worked with me, they'll know I always talk, crawl, walk, run. We gotta crawl before we walk and then we run. So, you know, a lot of times if we're a young team that's learning to jive together, we're just learning to crawl. As we get into the deeper pieces, kind of like the team you were with, if they can probably do that stuff in their sleep almost.

Now how can we gamify it and tweak it to get a different outcome or get the outcome with better results? You know, because we've mastered the skill. Now how can we even make it work a little better for us? And what will we measure to to see

Tiffanie (15:39)

Yeah.

DAT- Kristy (15:39)

if it's working?

Tiffanie (15:41)

I agree. I love that because that was exactly what happened, right? They were like, okay, we'll do more. We'll ask for more. And I said, Cool, but what does more mean? Because a feeling

DAT- Kristy (15:49)

Mm-hmm.

Tiffanie (15:50)

of more, like if I'm exhausted today, I did more, right? I did all I could. But maybe it was none or one. The actual physical like

I'm gonna tally mark this on my sticky note. I told them like don't make it hard, like don't make it where everyone's gotta go in and fill in a KPI spreadsheet at the end of the day of how many patients they ask for whatever. Like don't make don't create blocks in a system that's already not being used. Create

DAT- Kristy (16:15)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (16:16)

ease.

And I told them just have a little sticky note. I don't care where you put it. Put it in your cupboard, put it in your pocket. And every time you ask for one, just make a little tally and then talk about it every day at the morning huddle. And once a week, we tally all of it together. And by the end of the week, you should have, as a team, asked for X amount of referrals. And then at by the end of the month, we should have gained an increase of X amount referrals. Now, then, Kristy, to your point, what that does.

It gives us the accountability piece, the measurable accountability, and it gives us the space to look back. So if my bread didn't turn out the way I wanted it to, if it wasn't perfect at the end yesterday, I could look back and think, okay, or ask chat, okay.

What did what should I have done differently? Maybe I added too much water because it was still too moist. Maybe it dried out and I added too much flour, not enough water. I could ch I could change it, right? Do the measurable pieces. The measurable was a teaspoon of water, you know, every couple, every 30 to 60 seconds and watch how it separated, right? And how it rolled into a ball. Again, I didn't even know you could open the lid. This is how wild things get. Okay. This is real life.

And the measurable was the teaspoon every 30 to 60 seconds. Complete as far as you think you can or should. And then what does your bread look like at the end? So I feel like that's what systems are, like asking for those referrals, right? At this at these increments, and then looking back at the end and saying, did that get us the result that we wanted? Because if it did, great, we're gonna recreate. I'm using that method every single time moving forward on my bread, right? But if it hadn't, the next time I make bread, I'm gonna tweak it.

So

at the end of the month, if it didn't if it didn't gain momentum or six weeks, we really like six weeks to see a tangible result. So at the end of the six weeks, if we didn't see that movement and momentum on internal referrals increasing in our practice, we need to go backwards and say, okay, we need to increase the number that we're asking for weekly to get a different result. And we can again add a teaspoon of water. Like, cool, increase your frequency and change the result.

DAT- Kristy (18:24)

Yeah, I agree with you so much on that, Tiff. And truly looking at it, we in dentistry, I think so many times we pick out the systems where we have our pain points, and that's wonderful. We need to do that, we should do that. But also, you know, maybe once a month, just pull out your ops manual and start picking other systems too. Is this still relevant or not? Right. That's how we keep them alive.

And I think it's also important to celebrate the ones that are working well. We again

Tiffanie (18:55)

Totally.

DAT- Kristy (18:56)

we pick out the ones where we have pain points, but celebrating the ones that are working well will also let us repeat that, you know, and make sure that we're staying aligned to the system. So

Tiffanie (19:07)

Yeah.

I completely agree. I love to start the meetings with a what's working because if production is working, if collections is working, it's like great. What are the systems that you're using? I don't want to touch those. Like I want to make sure we

DAT- Kristy (19:19)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (19:20)

celebrate those. I want to make sure those are tangibly used. And then what we can do even from there, Kristy, to your point is cool, this one's working. How can we add maybe a different element to change this result over here? So we're not creating a completely

new system to change something else. It's like this is working. Use what's working and layer on top of it. If your if your collections, your production is working, but your new patients aren't, your new patients are down, awesome. Let's layer onto our patient experience referrals or review requests. Like we're not changing or reinventing an entire system. We're just layering on top. I love, I love, because I love ease.

DAT- Kristy (20:03)

Yeah. Easy.

Tiffanie (20:03)

I want it to be easy.

I don't want, I personally do not want to sit here working really, really hard in a million different directions if I can work hard and enjoy what I'm doing on a couple and get a really cool result.

DAT- Kristy (20:21)

Yeah, I agree with you, Tiff. And I think so many things we make harder than than it needs

Tiffanie (20:25)

Yes.

DAT- Kristy (20:26)

to be. So yeah, look for the ease, people. And usually it's very simple. It's goes back to the very beginning and and use that as a litmus test. Do we not have the knowledge? Is it we're not executing it, right? Or

Tiffanie (20:41)

Yeah.

DAT- Kristy (20:42)

where's our accountability factor in this? So again and and evaluate the system. Did we follow it? Did it call for a cup of flour?

And we used

Tiffanie (20:51)

Mm-hmm.

DAT- Kristy (20:52)

something else, you know, we used a quarter cup, you know. So just make sure that we're we're true to the system and then ease, ease, ease, ease. One one small thing can

make a big outcome.

Tiffanie (21:04)

Yeah. Yeah.

I completely agree. Same day, two different foods. I was meal prepping yesterday for the family. I made the bread. It was literally perfect. And then I was trying to make these like apple oatmeal like quick snack things. And I was like, it looks a little wet. I'll add more just on my own. I didn't ask anyone. I added more oat and they were so bad. So I was like

Okay, well that didn't work. So next time we add less oat, maybe add a little honey for some like sticky quality. But to that point, it's like what's working and what what went well. And then I was like, well that one over there called for a little ad. Instead of just following this recipe, I'll get creative, right? So it's like we can just take things out of context or move too far in one direction and not pay attention to the actual system or what worked well to get us there.

DAT- Kristy (21:56)

Yeah.

Tiff, I love that you recognize that because I always like to say, you know what? All of us who have been really great at being a treatment coordinator or biller or whatever, our biggest our biggest pivotal moment was the failure, truly. Like if I always tell my OMs or admin team people, if you have not missed a missing tooth clause yet, use of learning to do because

Tiffanie (22:25)

So true.

DAT- Kristy (22:25)

Truly,

sometimes, and don't, you know, I know it gets upsetting when we do miss the mark, but remember to find the lesson in it. Because I guarantee you, all of us that have been in those shoes where we missed a waiting period or a missing tooth claws, it probably only happened once because we learned our lesson. So

Tiffanie (22:43)

Yeah, having to call that patient

and tell them they actually owe $600 more dollars on the crown because that crown was only a year and a half old and we probably should have caught that. That's fun. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I agree. I'm like, I'll pay it. I remember the day that it happened. I'm like, what

DAT- Kristy (22:52)

Oops. Yeah.

Tiffanie (22:59)

how do I what if I just pay it? My doctor's like, my gosh, you're wild. But

DAT- Kristy (23:03)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (23:04)

yeah, I agree. I agree. Okay, guys. Action items. Kristy, this was so much fun. Thank you.

DAT- Kristy (23:09)

Mm-hmm.

Tiffanie (23:10)

action items are first off,

I say do what's working. I love a what's working, what's not working test. So what's working and what's not working? I describe what's not working. And if you're any of my practices I've been in office with, you already know this. What's not working is like what's hard, what feels like you're hitting your head against that wall or running the hamster wheel and not getting the result that you want. Just what seems difficult. So what's working, what's not working, and then the not working items assess awesome. Is it a knowledge gap?

Do we need more information? Do we need to know what the goal is? Is it a systems gap? Does the system have all of the clarity in it that you need? And if both of those are yes, or you get through both of those, execution. Is it an execution? Are we using it? And is there accountability attached? So I'd run those tests back through and figure out where are you stuck and how can you get unstuck? I

DAT- Kristy (24:05)

Love it.

Tiffanie (24:05)

love it. Kristy, anything you want to add?

You always have like a last minute mic drop.

DAT- Kristy (24:09)

No, and I I guess,

yeah, just one pearl of wisdom I guess would be on the not working. It could also be what you were talking about earlier. It might be what do we want more of, right? It might not

Tiffanie (24:20)

Mm. Yes.

DAT- Kristy (24:21)

even be not the not working part of it. It could be what do we want more of. So

Tiffanie (24:25)

Yes, I love that. Do a third. What's not working? I told you

there's always a mic drop. Kristy's mic drops. What's not working? Where are you stuck? Right? What is working? Where are you stuck? What's not working? And what do we want more of? I love it. Thank you, Kristy.

DAT- Kristy (24:37)

Love it.

Tiffanie (24:38)

Awesome. Okay, guys, if you are driving, play this back and listen to it again. Take some notes. We love you. We love sharing all of our gifts with you, all of our, all of our pearls, our wisdom, all of the things. So keep listening. Share with a friend.

Share with a coworker, a family member. I know a lot of doctors will send these to their teams, and I know a lot of doctors still aren't doing that. So send these things over to your teams, allow them to gain this knowledge as well. And as always, drop us a five-star review and reach out [email protected] so that we can help you live your best lives too. Thanks, guys.

Introducing the Dental A-Team YES Operating System — a framework created after looking at thousands of practices to help you have predictable growth, profitability, and freedom. Hear from Kiera about why this approach will change the way you do dentistry (and improve the way you live your life).

The DAT YES Operating System:

Y: You

E: Earnings

S: Systems and Teams

Episode resources:

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Transcript:

Kiera (00:01)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera, and I just want to talk to you guys about how we can say yes to more things. I call it the Dental A Team Yes operating system. It's truly a blueprint for profitable practices. And we've talked about it a few times, but honestly, it is just like what's a different operating model that we can go off of to have this profitable practice, but also to feel fulfilled, to have it more easy. Like great, let's do this. So I want you to know that this is a framework we created looking at thousands of practices, coming up with it, because I don't believe they're profitable practice.

is created by luck. I don't. I think that you can have it and you just need the right framework, the right operating system. And then you're gonna be able to to align, to guide, and to be able to truly say yes to everything you want. So I'm gonna walk you through our YES operating system. The Y stands for You. It's all about you first. That's the very first step. E stands for Earnings and S stands for Systems and Teams. And these are three pillars that are gonna help predict have predictable growth, profitability, and freedom for you. So I hope you're excited for it. I hope you're excited to say yes to more in your life. And hey, if you're new here,

Hi, I'm Kiera. Super nice to meet you. I'm obsessed with all things dentistry, so much so that my last name is actually Dent. Yep, I really am Kiera Dent. I love dentistry. I've been a dental assistant, treatment coordinator, you name it, regional manager, consulted hundreds and thousands of practices across the nation and the globe. And we are so committed to helping dentists truly reach their highest potential, empower teams, and make life and running a successful practice easy and fun again. That's what we do. I'm obsessed with it. We do startup to multi-million dollar organizations, no matter the practice size.

Things are still the same. The YES model works for all of you. So I want you to know that a lot of times we're focused on production or marketing or this or that. But a lot of times if we just get our whole team aligned, everything falls into place. And I'm not saying that you have a vision and everything works. And we to put in the action. Like we got to put in the effort. Your practice does appreciate effort. But I want to help you build a very successful business that's going to support both profitability and lifestyle because you don't have to have one without the other. So the Y stands for You. This is your vision. This is you.

And I think so many people skip over this and dive right into the numbers. And I purposely put it in this model. You are not going to say yes. You might say say S-E-Y. Guess what? You're not going to get everything that you want. You won't. Because if you focus on you first, like it took me forever to come up with this acronym. I kid you not. We're going to do the SPF, then we're going to do the this or that. I was like, what is it? Like, what order do these need to And then I was like, my gosh, it's YES. You Earnings Systems. Because we got to make sure that you are dialed in. And I tell everybody when you start with us as a new client.

We focus on what is your vision, personally and professionally, because your business has to have it. I don't care. Like I just had a dentist I was talking to yesterday and she's like, I want to work three days a week. And I'm like, great. Let's put it on the board. Math can math. That's why Earnings comes next. But if I don't know where our North Star is, if I don't know where we're going, then we're constantly changing our goals. Growth doesn't feel fulfilling. You're running around like a crazy operator rather than running the business. This is what's happening. Like I want you to own your business, not be owned by the business. So number one is you gotta define what success looks like for you.

Two, what do we look like? What's our one, three, ten year vision? We work with this, like I pull off of traction. What is it? Nothing is off the table. I don't care what it is. But you also have to realize that, like, hey, if I want to cut down to three days, are we also okay to make less money? Or is like, no, I want to work three days and make the same amount. Okay, well then maybe we need to change up our procedure match. I can't just be like, I want to make two million and work two days a week. Okay, great. Like you're doing bread and butter dentistry. Like math has to still math. So let's figure out how we can get there. Maybe you gotta get some side hustles, maybe gotta get some real estate. I don't know.

But hey, everything's there, nothing's off the table. We do need to make sure we back it up with realistic numbers. I remember my financial advisor gave me a crazy goal and I was like, there is no way. Like, I don't know how I'm ever gonna do it. Guess what? You chip away, we chip away. We have that as our north star, guiding star. Everything will come into place. So I want you to know that like this works. If you're if you don't have a vision and you're not anchored of where you're going, and then second to that, your team knowing where we're going.

All of this doesn't work. We are working for nothing. We're working for ego. We're working for stress. We're working for shoulds. We're working for what everybody else is posting about that they're doing. You're not working for what you actually need to do. And so I want you to know you is number one. You being fulfilled, you being taken care of, us knowing what you actually want it to be. And then I need that like tattooed on your shoulder. I need it to be put on a mirror. You've got to look at this freaking vision every single day because where we focus our attention, we're actually going to achieve it. So we can't build the right practice unless we actually know what we're building for. So

I need you, if you're gonna have a profitable practice, we gotta know where our clear vision is. What does profitable mean for you? Then we're gonna back it up and make sure that it's realistic. So I want you today, if you haven't, go on a little vision building adventure with me. Let's go right. What's your one year? What's your three year? What's your ten year? Ten years from now, how old are you gonna be? Wow, that feels like a moment. Just think in 10 years, it's gonna slip by. You either can actively create it or you can passively manage it.

Your choice, but I'd highly recommend that you create it. Step two is Earnings. I know, I know, you're waiting for me to get to this part. You just want to talk about this part. Don't skip step one. So Earnings. This is our profitability. So revenue alone isn't going to create your wealth. Profitability does. I don't care what your top line number is. I care what your take-home pay is. I really do. I want you to all your expenses, including paying you. I want you to have 20% left over after we pay tax and everything. Okay? So if we can figure that out, great. That's our ideal. That's our benchmark. That's what we're striving for.

So what happens oftentimes is people are so obsessed about not looking at the numbers so they don't look at anything, or they're so obsessed about like just only focusing on their production number. Like I had a doctor tell she's like, I'm at two million, but her collections are at one million. And I was like, yay, I gotta be the person that tells you you have a $1 million practice, not a two million. Hi, I'm Kiera. Nice to meet you. the reality is, like, I know you don't want to hear this.

But I also know that we've got to know what our true numbers are and what we're going towards. So once I know your vision, we then break it down. This is what we do with our clients. We break down what does that actually cost us? What does it cost us to run the business? What does it cost us for you to live? What is our debt services? What's the vision we're working towards? You're not gonna be there today. We know in 10 years you wanna be making three million, fantastic. We you know you wanna be at five million, fantastic. Break this down production-wise. Now it's easy for a practice because I can just plug and play, put that in there. But if we're building your personal life too, we need to know what that has. I will also say.

If your business can't support that, it's not your business's fault. You either need to readjust or produce more or have another side hobby that brings income. All of it's true, but we just we gotta make sure. I had a doctor once tell like, here, I need to make more. Well, they weren't willing, like 50% of the revenue coming through they were spending on personal items. Yeah, that practice couldn't support it. Like they their lifestyle was too expensive for the practice that they were doing, and they weren't willing to do more work, they weren't willing to bring in more patients, nothing. And I was like,

Okay, the math doesn't math. Like I know you want to spend this much, but like you're you're out of your budget. So and you're not willing to make a bigger budget, like we either can cut or got to produce more. It's one of the two things. or we gotta collect it. So when we look at this, I really want you to dive into knowing our numbers. We're talking our our net, not our gross production. What are our collections? You should be sitting at 98%. What's our overhead? Ideal, like I said, ideal is 50% overhead, 30% doctor pay, 20% profit. That profit then pays our debt services, leaving us at the end.

I would love, love, love for you to have 20% profit, profit, profit at the end. Like that's our cash flow after everything's paid, all of it, have that hanging out. That's an optimal practice. Not all practices can achieve it, but that'd be optimal. What's our payroll? What is our our hygiene period production? What are those items? Like, let's look at this. What's our case acceptance? Sometimes it's not even an issue. Maybe we're just not diagnosing enough. But what does it tell us? So, like if I know that we need to build a $3 million practice, I then need to make sure that we're producing enough.

Create that three million and then we need to make sure we're collecting enough. So, what are my levers in that? Well, levers are case acceptance, diagnosis, hygiene, and scheduling. Like those are pretty much it. And then obviously collection. That's really yeah, I can get marketing in there, but if I don't convert my new patients and we're not converting case acceptance, whoop-dee doo, like could be an issue, but can we maximize our patient base that we already have? That's a great question for us. So focus on these items so that way when we have it, we can actually make sure that the plan is leading up to our vision.

You don't feel stuck. And then we also got to build in our staffing, our payroll. Like if you're doing all the pieces and you're miserable with it, well, what's it gonna cost us to hire an office manager? Or what's it gonna cost us to hire two more dental assistants or another hygienist? Let's build that into our plan. That way our practice can produce it. We can afford it. The great news is dentistry's untapped. Dentistry's untapped. So this doctor has talked to you as like, okay, your cash flow, you just need 10,000 more a month. Let's break that down. You're working four days a week, 16 days a month, that's six hundred and twenty-five dollars a day.

That's a night guard. That's like a couple ceilings, couple fillings. It's nothing to make ten thousand more a month. You can do it. This is what is awesome. Like, so whatever your goal is, we just break down by your daily goal, get your team rallied, look to see where we could find this amount. You're back in business. So production is super important, but profitability gives you options. And profitability, we need to make sure that you're profitable. I don't care what your top line is. If you're not profitable and you're not paying for your life, you're miserable.

So that's why what is your top line? And then what is our profitability? And do we like do those match? So what we do with our clients is we actually put them through, we build out an annual plan with them. So excited. So excited. It's in the beta role. We've been doing it. And now we actually have it like really there. Shout out to Britt. She's been working hard on this. but we go through, we look at all your expenses. What does it cost for you to have it? What is your practice producing? What do we need it to produce every month? Maybe we need to get our doctors to be a little bit higher, a dollar per hour. Like, great, you can do that.

There's a lot of options. Maybe you don't want to. Great, then let's go cut. I always do it. It's like what is it? What can we really do? What's the cut? What's the actual production? Let's go. Let's live our best life. So I want you to truly like taking away from this, get your vision, then review your profit margins every single month. Get into it. Should review it every single day. But I want you looking at the profit margins, not just your production numbers. Then this leads us to the S, the Systems and Team Development.

This is going to be your engine portion of this, okay? So based on our vision, then what did the numbers tell us? Now it's our systems and team. Based on whatever our numbers tell us, that's a system we're gonna go put into place. It might not need to be all the systems. Everybody's like, well, what systems do I put into place? I'm like, I don't know. What's your vision? What do the numbers tell us? Put that system into place. I know you want it. I know you want all the systems, but why? You're probably doing so many things great. If our vision is this mount, our numbers tell us this, we can fix a lot through a morning huddle, we can fix a lot through handoffs.

We can fix a lot through just your hygiene department. We can fix a lot through your production. We can fix a lot through your leadership meetings and how you guys are doing it. We can do a lot through hiring and onboarding. I guess those are all important, but like what does it tell us? And then also what are your pain points? This is also where we're developing the team. I found that so many people focus only on the doctor. And I'm like, cool, that's fun. But why don't we focus on you as well? Like, let's make sure that the team is elevated so you, doctor, don't have to go tell that team everything to do.

We literally coach your team for you. We create office managers. We build leadership teams. We teach your team how to talk about hygiene. What do we do when we got a bloody period patient? Great. What do you do when your fee schedules aren't completely entered? Fantastic. Let's teach that person. Let's help your team actually be optimized based on what the numbers tell us, based on your pain points and where the ultimate vision is. I hope you can see that all this comes together. This is why it's called the YES operating system. It helps you say yes to more in your life. It helps us see what systems are broken.

A lot of people come in and they focus on systems hoping to get to the top. But I'm like, no, let's focus on the top. Where are we going? What your life is. Let's look at the numbers because they're going to tell us everything. I can just look at the numbers very quickly and tell you if you're diagnosing enough, if you're producing enough, if we're collecting enough, if our case exceptions there, just by looking at your PL and your KPIs. It's all there. And then let's go fix the systems over here. Sometimes you're overwhelmed. Well, that's not going to show up in your numbers, but what it will tell me is we need to fix that. We need to add.

An office manager or somebody to this plate, or we need to grow your office manager into the person they need to be in order for you to have the successful life that you want to have. I really truly want you to know that like your systems and team development can happen when we know what the vision and the numbers are. You're probably doing it in the reverse order, and that's why you feel like you're trapped and stuck. Because you're trying to focus on systems, you implement the system that you heard on the podcast that doesn't get you the numbers that you want, and it doesn't ultimately get you to the vision you want. So then you're frustrated and you're like, well, the systems aren't working.

So then you put in another system to try to get the numbers you want, to try to get the per the vision that you want. Instead, let's rework this. I would like you to have your vision, look at your numbers. Wherever your numbers are down, let's put that system into place and see if we get closer. Teams don't want to be micromanaged. Teams don't want more systems on top of system upon system upon system. Teams want to be like why. They want to understand the why. And then they're gonna rally with you. So look at that. Look at your vision.

Look at the numbers and identify one system that needs to be improved. Go listen to podcast on it. I promise you, I got the how-to for every freaking system that you've ever wanted to put into place. Systems are not your issue. Your issue is that you don't have a clear vision and that you're not looking at the numbers. So you're scrambling at all your systems. This is why, if you put it in the YES success framework model, go from You to Earnings to Systems. You literally can say yes to everything you want. So, what I'd love for you to do is to focus on all three of these. Most people just focus on one, do it in that exact order.

You're going to be able to say yes to more. Because when your vision and your profit and your systems work together, growth becomes predictable, stress becomes less, happiness becomes more, team morale improves. This is where it's at. This is what I love to do. This is something of like, how do we help you say yes? This is what Dental A Team is built upon. This is our framework. This is our foundation. And so many people struggle because they're not willing to do the vision. They're not willing to look at the numbers. They only want to focus on the systems or the team development or say it's my team or say it's my system. Or if I just had something better, well, here is something better.

And I hope you take it. I hope you execute it. I hope you implement it because I know that you deserve to say yes to everything you want and more in your life. I think back to where I was six years ago. Wow, company was so small, so tiny, like so many things. And I look to where it is today. Yeah, it's so stressful. But guess what? I'm able to say yes to a lot more in my life. I've aligned my vision. I've hit pieces off of my goal board. I'm living the life that I dreamed of living like not too long ago. You can have that too.

So come be a part of it. Come be a part of our community. Come hang out with us. Be around people who truly say yes to more in their life. You deserve it. So the good news is this is available for all. You don't want to be a certain size practice. It's available for all. So put it into play. Align your vision and we help you. We help you identify what your vision is. We help you look at your numbers every single month. Sometimes you just need a freaking accountability partner. I need that like, hey, be my bestie. Hold me accountable. Sometimes that's all you need.

And also that bestie who's been there, done it, done it multiple times over and successfully grown practices. That's who we are. That's what we do. And this is what we do all day long. So let's help you say yes to more in your life. Commit to saying yes and living the life that you absolutely deserve, not just the one that you think you should have. I promise you it's there for you. Follow our yes success model, and I guarantee you you'll be so much happier. And I can't wait to help you. Reach out [email protected]. And as always, thanks for listening. I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.

Kiera is joined by Sean Hamel, CEO of Art of Dental Marketing, to talk about … yup, dental marketing! Sean goes through why dentists struggle so much with messaging, what the right language for patient referrals is, how to make your practice stand out from that other practice 0.2 miles away, and a ton more.

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Transcript:

Kiera (00:00)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera. And today I have a very special friend back on the podcast, Sean Hamel. He and I actually worked together. He worked in Dental A Team for a hot minute. he is a CEO and founder of the Art of Dental Marketing. He is here to talk about all things of what works, what doesn't work. I shoot, guys, you guys know marketing is my Achilles heel. So I get really smart people in the industry to come on the podcast, talk about it. So, Sean, welcome to the show. How are you?

Sean Hamel (00:25)

Thanks, Kiera. Good, thank you. It's always good to see you. I that was when when was the Dental A Team kinda overlap? That was like four or five years ago now. Crazy how time flies.

Kiera (00:33)

I know. It

yeah, because we were doing an event. So I think it was like three, four years ago, and we were going through like

Sean Hamel (00:38)

Mm-hmm.

Kiera (00:38)

a rebrand and I still have emails from you and like campaigns that we worked on together. So it's fun

Sean Hamel (00:44)

cool.

Kiera (00:44)

that we've actually like worked together and now here we are. You work with all the dentists too. So yeah, but it's been a hot

Sean Hamel (00:49)

Absolutely.

Kiera (00:50)

minute and now here we are podcasting again together. So here we are.

Sean Hamel (00:54)

Absolutely, always good to see you.

Kiera (00:56)

Likewise. Okay, Sean, for those who don't know you, tell them a little bit of who Sean is, how did the Art of Dental Marketing come about, and w like why you we should even listen to you today. Like basically pitch yourself.

Sean Hamel (01:07)

Absolutely.

I know there are so many dental marketers. It seems like every day there's like 20 or 30 more, probably more than that. But I started dental marketing about 15 years ago. I was purely accidental. I have a degree in marketing, graduated, and in doing that, got a job it for a dental financial services company basically running their marketing and was meeting a lot of doctors and making friendships with a lot of doctors.

And nobody tells you when you graduate school with a marketing degree, but you suddenly become all of your friends and family's like resident marketing expert. And

Kiera (01:41)

Yeah.

Sean Hamel (01:41)

so one of my buddies was graduating from dental school, and another buddy of mine was having some issues with SEO in his practice. And so they just kind of asked me some general questions. long story short, helped them choose some solutions, wasn't really amped about any of them, but you know, tried to help them make the best decision they could, and they didn't get great results.

and so I started helping them and using story-based marketing, which is a big piece of what makes ADM different, we were able to get them really solid results and they gave me a lot of grace to try things. And over the course of doing that, we were able to get really good results for them. And so in doing so, other dentists that were their peers and friends and things started asking, you know, who's doing your marketing? And so I started to get more and more clients. to now, you know, 14, 15 years later, we've worked with

hundreds and hundreds of doctors. and I travel all over the country speaking and teaching doctors about why dental marketing largely doesn't work. most of the time here it's a messaging problem. But why dental marketing doesn't work, why no matter who you seem to hire, you can't really get results. and also just kind of talking about why the industry is tilted in a way that it's not really set up for doctors to be successful and they have to kind of learn as they go how to vet, how to properly seek out help.

And then even how to monitor the people they're paying to help them to actively get results. Cause that seems to be the biggest issue for doctors is I hire seven marketing companies and nobody can

Kiera (03:10)

Mm-hmm.

Sean Hamel (03:11)

get results.

Kiera (03:12)

Okay, so dig into it. You pitched me, well, I'll listen to you, Sean. Why doesn't cause selfishly for myself, I'm in the same boat. I'm like, my gosh. Sean, I looked at my numbers. This is gonna be fun for you. We decided to do a revamp. I've done this twice. So this is

Sean Hamel (03:25)

Mm.

Kiera (03:26)

year two that I'm trying this. Like I did it a couple of years ago and then I was like, forget that. That was a really that was a five hundred thousand dollar mistake. This year I'm up to a

Sean Hamel (03:32)

Mm.

Kiera (03:32)

seven hundred and fifty thousand dollar mistake. Like I don't know if it's

Sean Hamel (03:34)

Mm.

Kiera (03:35)

a full mistake, but it is like it just feels like this bottomless pit in marketing. It's like

Just keep pumping more money into it and hope and pray something works out. And then you re-pivot the strategy. And then it's like, okay, it's gonna take three more months to do it. So I am equally piqued. We have a great CRO on our team now that actually I've seen more results than I've ever seen. But it's like

Sean Hamel (03:52)

Mm.

Kiera (03:54)

that's hundreds of thousands of dollars. Like I just listed Kiera's dirty laundry on the podcast 500,000 two years ago, 750,000 this year. Our marketing expenses are up by 350,000. So enjoy that.

Sean Hamel (04:04)

Mm-hmm.

Kiera (04:04)

Like those are some big numbers. And so I don't want any of you dentists out there being like, my $50,000 marketing is expensive.

Listen, all y'all, I know what this is. And also don't tell me consulting's expensive. Like I've gone through, I paid 250,000 for Tony Robbins. Like there is expensive consulting and then there's also just like it is just a a good fee. So Sean, talk to us. Talk to me. Hi, I'm Kiera. I'm your I'm your client today. Tell us why doesn't marketing work and how do we actually get it fixed?

Sean Hamel (04:29)

Well, and and d for dentists specifically, you know, dental is so unique. your issue with which is selling two dentists is a lot of times a messaging problem too. but as far as it relates to dental practices specifically, I talk about what I call the cycle of mediocrity, but it basically is what I've kind of drilled down over over a decade of doing this, working with hundreds of offices. And I talk about it in depth. I'll kind of give you the the cliff notes because it is a very

long conversation. I know we're trying to stay

Kiera (04:59)

Okay.

Sean Hamel (05:00)

like under 30 minutes here. But with dental practices, largely what happens is everybody looks the same. So if you pull up, you know, five dental practices, everybody looks the same. They say the same things. They're hiring marketing companies that are selling very like generic templated things. So everybody looks the same. It's all hyperclinical. You know, everybody's trying to to chase the same people.

While they're all looking the same. And so because of that, Kiera, the only way the marketers know how to differentiate the businesses is with discounts. So

Kiera (05:30)

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Sean Hamel (05:31)

the the practices, because everybody's so close together and they're all saying the same stuff, they get locked in these price and proximity battles. So they're fighting over how can we how much can we outdiscount the practice next to us? They're being advised by industry leaders, industry leaders to do

Kiera (05:46)

Mm-hmm.

Sean Hamel (05:47)

new new patient specials constantly.

And then a lot of it too is just, hey, this practice is 0.7 miles from my house. This practice is 0.9 miles from my house.

So

Kiera (05:55)

Totally.

Sean Hamel (05:56)

you have you have those kind of decisions happening, but you get locked in price and proximity battles, which leads to what I have kind of coined as what I call the freebie trap. But the doctors get conditioned that they have to give away what they do in order to be successful.

Kiera (06:09)

Totally.

Sean Hamel (06:09)

It's not super helpful because that means you got to do more dentistry to make up for it. And when you're battling on price, that's all you're giving people. That's the only thing they have to make a decision off of.

But those price and proximity battles, getting in that freebie kind of mindset and constantly giving things away, that brings in non-desirable patients. And the non-desirable

Kiera (06:28)

Right.

Sean Hamel (06:29)

patients are the one everybody's complaining about, right? They take a chair time, they don't have credit, they're not going to accept treatment, they come in for the special and they leave. And so that puts a lot of pressure on the practice because dental practices, as you know, you have to see somebody repeated times before you really start monetizing that relationship. But dentistry is a relationship business.

And so the one and duns put a lot of stress on the practice, and that starts to cause burnout and frustration on the team and the doctor because they're constantly chasing this new patient number, but they're still not making any money. They're busy, but they're not profitable, which is a huge problem.

Kiera (07:01)

Mm-hmm.

Sean Hamel (07:03)

So from there, the burnout starts to set in and the doctor goes out and starts throwing up Hail Marys, hoping to get help, like you are, hoping to get help. I'm spending all this money, nothing's working.

And this is where, Kiera, the cycle mediocrity, it's multifaceted. So the dentists are kind of their own worst enemy sometimes. The marketing

Kiera (07:19)

Right. Right.

Sean Hamel (07:20)

companies, I'm not saying marketing companies are nefarious, but a lot of people that get into dental marketing are not qualified to be here. And then the industry has kind of pitted itself in a bad spot for dentists. And the reason why I led with that is because at this point where that burnout comes in, the doctors are going out to events and study clubs and groups and they're trying to get help. And the marketers that are being put in front of them largely

It's not there's no vetting of their work being done. It's who bought the diamond sponsorship package. That's who's gonna get up on stage and they can say whatever they want. And there's so many conferences that I go to and I hear people say things from the stage and I'm like, that is factually incorrect. That's not how that works anymore. That's not true anymore. Don't want to get into that today, but there's no vetting going on. And so the doctors are coming out and they're trying to get help to be profitable, right? To be chairside less, make more money, not take the wear and tear on their bodies, hit their goals.

you know, pay for their family vacations, put their kids through school. And there's all these marketers entering the space that are promising them the world, but there's no accountability. And

Kiera (08:21)

Right.

Sean Hamel (08:22)

so because of that, the doctor hires the next marketer, hires the next marketer. And this here is where the cycle comes back around, is every marketer they hire largely is doing the same stuff. So it's the same messaging, the same websites. They're promising them the world, but they're not actually doing anything to be able to hit that goal. And if they don't hit the goal, there's there's no repercussion if they don't.

But they hire the next marketer, promises them the world. They go through all the change and transition. They kind of go through that high of, hey, this is gonna work. It's new, it's exciting. And then things start to slow down. The phones slow down, right? All the growth slows down because the messaging is off, and we can get to that in a second. But they start, they call the marketing company and they say, hey, we're not busy, or hey, this isn't working, or hey, these leads aren't good. And the marketing company usually will blame the front desk.

Or they'll

Kiera (09:06)

Mm.

Sean Hamel (09:07)

say, Hey, why don't you go you're not you're not busy? Well, let's do a thousand dollars off in in Vizaline or whatever.

And so they bring the discount up and it starts back over. So no differentiation leads to this race to the bottom discount mentality, which brings the patients that they don't want to see anyway. The patients put stress on the practice, the doctor starts throwing hail mares to get help, hires the next marketer who's not vetted or anything like that, comes in, promises the world doesn't do anything, aren't busy. So the marketing company decides, well, let's just do a discount. And that's the loop. And that's why practices hire seven companies and can't ever get results.

Kiera (09:41)

So I agree with you. And that is a good way to put it in there. And as you were saying that, I say it sometimes. I'm like, practices are like dental Tinder. Like, guys, you're just like,

Sean Hamel (09:49)

Yeah.

Kiera (09:50)

you look like everybody else and they just keep swiping. Same thing when you're placing ads out there to hire team members. I'm like, you can't be dental Tinder. You gotta like stand out somehow. Like in my mind, I was like, all right, it's all black and white. Like, how do you stand out as hot pink or how do you stand out as hot blue? Like there's gotta be something in your right. Like a lot of times it is proximity. And so I tell a lot of doctors, like,

Hey, when you take over a practice, they're probably not gonna wanna leave you because they don't wanna go find somebody else. Like it's much easier for them to like you and stay where they're familiar rather than going somewhere else. And that's also the tricky thing is because unless I've got more people moving into the area or I have a very disgruntled patient, they're kind of creatures of habit. Like switching dentists is not fun. And so that's another piece that we have. So you just you laid it out perfectly. What's the solve? What's the solution? Like how do people get out of that? Because I think you're not wrong. And I will say that that's something

Whether it's right or wrong, I got so annoyed. I went to so many conferences and I, my gosh, early, early on, I signed up with a marketing company. I spent 80,000 on that company. And I remember like almost bankrupting the company. I was it was just and they're like, just keep going, just keep going, just keep going. And I'm like, I don't have any more cash. Like, we're gonna go under. And it was the most stressful thing I'd ever done. But it does feel like like almost like gambling, like one more pull, one more pull, one more pull. Like maybe this one will be

Sean Hamel (11:06)

Yeah.

Kiera (11:06)

big money.

and I remember it is like

Sean Hamel (11:07)

Yeah, I call it I call

it the finding Nemo, the just keep swimming thing. But yeah. Mm-hmm.

Kiera (11:11)

Seriously though. Like I was like, I just felt like I was

just like pulling the slot machine, hoping and praying big money was coming. but it didn't. And it was that was the early on learnings. Clearly, I keep learning them. but how do people get out of it? Because like for me, you're right, for conferences, I got sick of it. I signed up with so many people, I was like, my gosh, like I should have done a little research on these people. But even research, like marketers, the thing that's stressful, Sean, and I will say this too, I'm interviewing marketers right now for our company actually, and I'm like

A marketer should actually be able to sell me. Like that's their job. So they are smoke and mirrors. They're like their job

Sean Hamel (11:43)

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Kiera (11:45)

should be to put something in front of me that I want to buy. That's who I'm trying to buy. So then how do you cut through a good salesperson who's actually a good doer? Because that's what I'm really looking for in a world where their job is to sell me and to sell me well. So

Sean Hamel (11:58)

Yeah.

Kiera (11:59)

how do people get past that?

Sean Hamel (12:01)

Well,

for dental practices especially, I think the biggest thing that's missing, well, it's a I think it's a two part problem. One is anybody can be a dental marketer now. So there there literally is a whole industry of influencers that are out and they're encouraging the unqualified to do niche specialization like dentistry. So I I always say everybody can it's really easy to be expensive now, but nobody is valuable anymore. And that's why I say like market

Kiera (12:28)

So I say it.

Sean Hamel (12:29)

marketers aren't

Nefarious by nature. A lot of them aren't. They just don't know what they don't know. And the reason I say that Kiera is because when I started, I didn't I did everything I learned in college and none of it worked. That's why I had

Kiera (12:39)

Yep.

Sean Hamel (12:39)

to kind of relearn it and helping friends. And luckily those friends gave me grace to try things. But once we figured it out, it's all it's all emotion. Like the average person does not know who the best clinician is. And we also spend a lot of time validating things that the average consumer already gives of practice, which is that the doctor is skilled and smart and that they work on teeth.

And yet that's most of the messaging that's out there. And so it's no wonder it's problematic because people are afraid, largely are afraid of dentistry anyway. And so you're shoving the things that they're afraid of down their throat. And it's not marketing differentiators because the average person doesn't know anyway. When I speak and I talk about it, it'd be like if you went out to buy a car and you walked on the lot and the salesman was like, All of our cars have turn signals and brakes and transmissions, you'd be like, duh, because you expect that stuff to be there.

Kiera (13:29)

Right.

Sean Hamel (13:29)

And yet if

you look at the average practice, all of that wasted messaging is there. And that's why I say it's a messaging problem. But with regard to the industry itself and these marketers that are entering the space, like where we initially started before that kind of caveat, a lot of people you can get in dental and you can with AI and stuff, you can pull smoke and mirrors. And and there's a whole industry of people selling white

Kiera (13:50)

Mm-hmm.

Sean Hamel (13:52)

label products to unqualified people and encouraging them to get into dental. You can charge 3x.

And the doctors don't know any better. Like, have you have you seen the like 19-year-old looking kid that's in his like gamer den who's talking about I'm gonna get you 30 all-in X patients in 25 minutes? They're buying that, they're buying that

Kiera (14:08)

Totally. Yep. Yep.

Sean Hamel (14:11)

somewhere. And the doctor's like, what you're going through, there's no way to vet that. And that's where I want to encourage as I'm out speaking and stuff, where people come to organizations and associations and meetings.

for guidance, like do your due diligence on the other side of it, that the people you're putting on stage are worth their salt to be speaking at your event, advising your members, telling them things to

Kiera (14:33)

Read.

Sean Hamel (14:34)

do, because they're the ones that go back and stroke the giant checks and get no results. And then they come back trying to find help. And that kind of is where I think with marketing a lot of people, including you, you kind of just get burnt out on even trying to find help. And it's just like, okay, what can I do to self-maintain without bleeding money? Right.

And so, with that, like as far as dental practices go, and I told you this is a lot longer conversation,

but

Kiera (15:00)

Mm.

Sean Hamel (15:01)

most consumers with a dental practice care are afraid. Fear is a huge part, and that's what makes dentistry singular. There's not a lot of stuff that we buy that we're afraid of. And so most people are not operating from a feature and benefits mindset with dentistry. It's like self-preservation, right? It's why.

referrals work so well. Like if you really think about why patient referrals work so well, it's because trust and safety are immediately passed because their cousin, coworker, friend from church, whatever, is validating that you're safe and it's a nice place to go and they're not going to hurt me. And all of that is an emotional process that's happening. And so to get out of the cycle of mediocrity, you stop talking about clinical stuff all the time and you start using human emotion to connect with people. So that's patient experience. That's the differentiator, right?

But how do you communicate that ahead of time? You really can't. I mean, you've got Google reviews, you've got the ability to do, you know, photo tours and things. One of the biggest things that practices can do that's easy is stop wearing scrubs. Stop wearing all your

Kiera (16:00)

Yeah.

Sean Hamel (16:00)

scary gear. You don't need tools in your hands. Don't wear

Kiera (16:03)

Mm-hmm.

Sean Hamel (16:03)

white coats. White coat syndrome is real. Just take a picture. Just take a picture of you being a normal person. Talk about who you are. Talk about hobbies and interests and things people already know you're smart. They know you work on teeth. They you do all the scary stuff.

Why should I pick you? you play guitar, I play guitar. Cool. We have something in common that as a human being, that means I'm wired that you're safe. That's safer to go there. Standing out being memorable. In this day where we're like bombarded with advertising all the time, that's how you do it. And that's how you get off the cycle of mediocrity is you stop trying to do the same messaging as everybody else. Stop trying to chase discount patients all the time.

Focus on just leaning into human emotion and how people are wired and understanding that six of every ten of them is afraid of you. So it's a different relational connection than it is just like, hey, I know you're scared of this, but guess what? We do that really cheap. Like that's like the 90,000 foot view of the average dental message. It's no wonder it falls on deaf ears. And most of the time it's quality pain-free dentistry. It's a headshot of the doctor. All the marketing is all about the doctor. It needs to be about the patient, their outcome, right?

Hey, you're gonna look better at the family reunion because you came and saw me. Not, hey, this is everything we're gonna do to you and I'm really smart and here's my headshot. So it's those little tweaks that make all the difference.

Kiera (17:22)

Do you really believe that, Sean? Like here I am like

Sean Hamel (17:25)

What's that?

Kiera (17:25)

digging into that. Like, I think a lot of us feel that way, but I think a lot do put themselves out there. And I'm like, that just feels like such a slow road. Like, I want to push the easy button. I want you to just do like SEO. I want it to when they search for me, I look like a good enough dentist rather than being like, let me share my entire life out there. Let me tell people because I think that they're just spaces like business owners that like I don't really want people to know me. I've had clients use my personal life against me and tell me like

Well,

Kiera XYZ. And I was like, forget that. Like, I'm not sharing half this stuff anymore. So I'm just like, it's a I agree with you to a point. And I think that there's a space of me that's like, is that really true? Me going out there, me being my authentic self. Like, there's so much noise on TikTok. There's so much noise on Instagram. There's so much noise there that like me as just average Kiera or average Sean or average Britt or average Kevin. My story.

Is that really going to break through the noise of all these other people chasing that bottom line? Or do I need to get people with that hook of what everyone else is doing and then win them over when they meet me?

Sean Hamel (18:29)

So I I mean that's that's fair and I appreciate you being devil's advocate. I mean we see clients

Kiera (18:33)

I will.

Sean Hamel (18:34)

that have well we I mean we see clients that have tremendous success with it. Again, dentistry is singular. So what what would work for Kiera and Dental A Team isn't what's gonna work for a practice because most people aren't afraid of you. So it's a a different relationship. It's well, I mean, I I I highly doubt it. I highly doubt it. Yeah. But

Kiera (18:45)

I hope. Some might be. I sometimes come in a little more intense, but no. But you're right. Like

people people hire Dental A Team because they've met me with air quotes on the podcast.

Sean Hamel (18:57)

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Kiera (18:59)

You feel like I'm your friend. You feel like I'm your bestie. Like, and I should. That's who it is. But you're right. Like in dentistry, they're not listening to you on a podcast getting to know you. They're looking at your website to see do I like you or do I not like you? And do your reviews say that

Sean Hamel (19:10)

Yeah, and it's

Kiera (19:11)

you're good.

Sean Hamel (19:12)

and it's in and it's indirect cues. The the the way that our clients have so much success with this, I mean, we have we have one office that's getting eighty X ROI using these principles

Kiera (19:20)

It's awesome.

Sean Hamel (19:20)

and leveraging these principles. And it's just it's it's not a gimmick. Like it's not me selling you anything, it's me trying to bring people back to center on just use the way human beings are wired to your benefit. So when people are afraid of something, we as different as we all are, we largely operate the same.

And so that's where Google reviews and all that pulls in. There are so many people that talk about the topical thing, right? You need to get Google reviews, it's good for SEO. You need to get Google reviews because it's social proof, and social proof is safety for us. That's why

Kiera (19:50)

Right.

Sean Hamel (19:50)

we hang out in packs and we always have. Even with SEO, like what you're talking about, Kiera, the best you can do is top three. It's the

Kiera (19:57)

Mm-hmm.

Sean Hamel (19:57)

best you can do. So you still only have a one in three chance that somebody's gonna pick you. So

Kiera (20:02)

True.

Sean Hamel (20:03)

33%.

So if I can give them emotional cues to pick you in addition to them finding you, that's where most of this falls off here is everybody's focused on being seen. Nobody talks about how do I get you chosen? How do I get you to be the one that they pick? And that's using the emotional cues. That's using neuroscience and using trust and safety. Same thing that happens with the patient referral. We're doing the same thing with messaging, with imagery. Instead of saying, hey, $99 new patient lightning special.

Run, hey, like in the spring, we will run you know, you bought the dress, give her the smile, prom 2026 whitening specials, 99. And it's not

Kiera (20:44)

Mm-hmm.

Sean Hamel (20:45)

that the message is different, it's just it resonates different with people because it's fitting into their life. It's not transactional where they're having like burn mental calories to figure that out. And the average person in that sequence, like, we've done this long enough. Yes, I it does work. Putting yourself out there works, but it's not just about putting yourself out there, it's doing it strategically.

Right. But when you do say that in the spring and graduation's coming and proms coming and all, a parent whose kid is going to prom and they see a ninety-nine dollar whitening special is not gonna have it resonate the way the other ad does. And that's

Kiera (21:16)

Totally.

Sean Hamel (21:17)

just a very high level example of how to do it. But it is a mix of doing the things that everybody's doing. But it's once you get there, how do you then get somebody to pick you? Cause you can pull the root like you're talking about pulling the lever.

Kiera (21:29)

Mm-hmm.

Sean Hamel (21:29)

You can start

to have control over that with the appropriate messaging and leaning into the fact that most people are afraid.

Kiera (21:35)

No, I think that's great, Sean. Thank you for letting me play devil's advocate because I think people

Sean Hamel (21:39)

Sure, yeah.

Kiera (21:39)

feel that like, okay, I'm gonna go do this, but then they feel like the rejection piece or that people aren't coming.

Sean Hamel (21:44)

Mm-hmm.

Kiera (21:45)

And you're right, I like I do this when we're presenting cases and talking to treatment coordinators and consultors, and it's like no one's buying that implant screwed into their head. Like just fun fact,

Sean Hamel (21:56)

Yeah.

Kiera (21:57)

no one's buying that. But what they are buying is the ability to eat steak. What they are buying is the

Sean Hamel (22:01)

Exactly.

Kiera (22:01)

ability to smile to their grandkids.

Like

it is an emotional lever that people I'm like, no person is buying. Like, I want white teeth, but why do I want white teeth? Like I want to look good. Like I had a lady who was like ninety and she went for full ortho people like, why'd offer it to her? I'm like, 'Cause she said she wanted to look good, like good in her coffin. That is a motivator for her at ninety

Sean Hamel (22:19)

Right. Yeah.

Kiera (22:20)

to get her like no one is buying, like we don't go and we don't buy certain things because we're looking for like I'm not buying like there was even a girl who talked about like we don't buy perfume for ourselves, we buy it for other people.

Like, yes, I want to smell good, but it's because other people are going to experience that. Like that's why we buy things is for other people, for us to feel a certain way. and I definitely think it's like you said, you can do the same tactic. It's just making sure that we're hitting it on the the zone that's gonna resonate. So I'm curious, Sean. Go ahead.

Sean Hamel (22:47)

See, and and you nailed

it really quick because that's that's what you just said is a phenomenal like follow up. That's the problem, Kiera, is you get it, you've done it, the marketers that are getting paid the big sums aren't doing it. So the

Kiera (23:01)

Mm-hmm.

Sean Hamel (23:02)

doctor will go out and do it on their social media themselves and put themselves out there. But the marketing company, if you go look at the landing pages for the implants, none of it's there. None of that's there.

Kiera (23:11)

Totally.

Sean Hamel (23:12)

And if they call and they say, Hey, I I have this patient.

That I wanna I wanna highlight this that, you know, they're eating steak again and they're excited. well, we don't do that. You have the bronze package here. We don't do that. We don't do we don't do custom. That's the problem. When I talk about everybody

Kiera (23:25)

Yeah.

Sean Hamel (23:26)

looks the same, the marketing companies are built to where you have a package A, B, or C. A,

Kiera (23:31)

Mm-hmm.

Sean Hamel (23:31)

B, or C doesn't work because this kind of stuff isn't in there. That's the issue with why most of it doesn't work. A lot of people get it and they understand it, they just don't know how to make it all fit together to actually get ROI.

And the companies

Kiera (23:43)

Sure.

Sean Hamel (23:44)

are not focused on messaging or conversion. It's all about site visits. It's all about, like you said, smoke and mirrors. That's what the metrics are about constantly. If it worked, ever like somebody at some point would get results that they are excited about. You know, if you go into a room with a hundred doctors, you say, How many of you have had a bad marketing experience? Almost all of their hands go up. And it's not that again, the marketers aren't nefarious. It's just they're charging full fees to do half the work.

Kiera (24:10)

Sure.

Sean Hamel (24:11)

Getting

in front of people's half the job. You gotta get them in the chair. You gotta qualify

Kiera (24:14)

Mm-hmm.

Sean Hamel (24:15)

them to make sure it's somebody the practice wants to see. And that's where the story piece starts to unlock is the conversion.

Kiera (24:21)

So if I'm a dentist listening today,

Sean Hamel (24:23)

Mm.

Kiera (24:24)

I'm like, Sean, I like this. I've taken notes. I like you, but you're a marketer. So of course I'm gonna like you. You're selling me on liking you. What are my tactical pieces that I can take from why marketing doesn't work and put it into action? What are some of the things that I can start doing today? whether I have a bronze, silver, gold, whatever package I've got, like I want patience. I need patience. That's why I'm listening to you guys today. I am obsessed with this, I've struggled with this.

I'm the person who just raised my hand. I have struggled with this in the past. What are the tactical? Because you know, Sean, I'm very tactical on every podcast. Like, people need to be able to leave here of like,

Sean Hamel (24:57)

Yeah.

Kiera (24:58)

what can they do to go make their lives and their practice better? What would you say would be like steps one, two, or three, or like one, two or three items that they could go implement that truly would start to help them in a way? I could call it like turning the Titanic. Like, how do I get

Sean Hamel (25:11)

Yeah.

Kiera (25:11)

this to actually start making a a shift rather than just continuing to do what I've always been doing?

Sean Hamel (25:16)

Yeah, one of the easiest ways here is you the about you page and about the practice page. Like if it's super clinical and super generic, if it's five paragraphs about how smart you are and three sentences about who you are, just flip that and start talking about who you are. You don't have to it doesn't mean you have to show pictures of your kids and all the things like you don't have to go that deep with it, but just talk about hobbies and interests. Be somebody that they can build a connection point with because again, remember that they're operating from self-preservation most of the time.

They're not looking at you the way that they're shopping for a TV. It's totally different when

Kiera (25:48)

It's true.

Sean Hamel (25:49)

it comes to dentistry. And so start with your bio page and talk more about who you are and understand that people already expect that you're smart and you work on teeth and you're capable. They already expect that. So just think about tail lights at a car dealership. Nobody cares, right? It's important, but they already know that you're smart and capable. You are a doctor who is practicing, they know that. So start there. And the same thing with about the practice, lean into the patient experience.

But lean in in a way that it makes the patients the hero of the story. I don't know if anybody's ever read Building a Story Ran by Donald Miller. It's a phenomenal book.

Kiera (26:20)

Mm-hmm.

Sean Hamel (26:21)

You can't take it though and plug it directly into dentistry. You have to tweak it a little bit. But making the patient outcome, like you said, the even the patient that's like, I want to look good my coffin, that is why she's coming in. You don't have to tell her the ins and outs of what you're gonna do to her. You don't have to sit there and try to tell her how smart you are and all the courses that you went to to be able, she's already sold.

All you have to do is talk to her about, hey, you are gonna look better, feel better, get more matches on Tinder, you know, look amazing at your high school graduation, whatever it is, shift your messaging to the outcome for the patient and you will start to see the marketing unlock. That's the easiest thing that you can do. And it's, you know, like you said, I have the gold, silver, bronze. The marketing companies are not gonna help you do this. So that's one of the easiest things you can start to do. The other thing here where practices can start doing this is through their social media. So stop.

You don't doesn't mean you have to post constantly about yourself. It doesn't mean that you have to post about like National Chocolate Chip Cookie Day or any of that stuff.

Kiera (27:15)

Yes.

Sean Hamel (27:16)

But just go out and be a member of the community. Go out and if there are restaurants or little coffee shops or anywhere that you go or the team goes or whatever, start tagging those businesses and build reciprocity, which is you know another principle of persuasion

Kiera (27:30)

Mm-hmm.

Sean Hamel (27:31)

if you read read Dr. Cialdini's book. but you can use other businesses like if you

If you think about a dental practice as being highly valuable in the community. So not, hey, we need to get more followers, but hey, I have 250 people that live in the community that follow us. That's valuable to other businesses.

Kiera (27:50)

Mm-hmm.

Sean Hamel (27:50)

So if there's a coffee shop that I like and I go out and I tag them in a post and say, My favorite, my favorite stop on my way into the office, and you tag that business, what is that business gonna do? Share you back, right? Well

Kiera (28:02)

Gonna like you. Exactly.

Sean Hamel (28:05)

And they're gonna share you back in their real or story if you post one of them. And so you can start to use other businesses to not only build commonality, but build out your brand. Like gyms are phenomenal for this. You have health conscious people that care about what they look like. Dentistry, like that's that's a great spot to be for dental practices. Just start being a part of the community, build that kind of commonality, leverage your community to get in front of people in an organic way and stop just trying to do what every marketer is doing.

Which is really generic, really clinical, you know, quality pain-free dentistry, the team's standing by the front desk, the doctor has their arms crossed. Everybody's tired of that stuff. It's not super hard to pivot this way. Just be a be a human, be a part of the community, be social, and realize that other businesses around you can l leverage benefit from you highlighting them because even if you have a small follower account, they all live in that city or that area. And you share them, they'll share you back.

See if you can do fun things together with them. But it's a unique way to build more of a connection. And especially in this day of day and age with AI and just the amount of you just get inundated by marketing anytime you go anywhere. If you can get somebody to go through and they see your ad and they think like you were talking about, like eating steak, if they hit if they hit that, the next time that they think about that, even if it's like ten hours later at night, they're gonna think about you. They're gonna remember

Kiera (29:25)

Mm-hmm.

Sean Hamel (29:26)

you. How many ads do you remember since you got up this morning?

Kiera (29:30)

The answer is none. There's too many.

Sean Hamel (29:31)

Right, because it's just the same stuff.

Right. And so as you start to leverage this stuff, and it does seem like, you know, with dentistry Kiera, it's not like monumental shifts, it's little dial turns. And like, you know, it's not just getting in front of people, it's how do I get them to remember me? Those are the kind of things that any practice can start doing is just humanize it. Talk about who you are, why they should pick you, and it's not where you went to school, it's just

Hey, I'm you know, this is who I am. I have kids, I work in the community, I coach little league, like whatever it may be. That's the stuff that people can resonate with. And then use your community, use social media to be social. And those are two

Kiera (30:09)

Yeah.

Sean Hamel (30:09)

things that any practice can start doing immediately and they'll start to see results.

Kiera (30:14)

I

love that, Sean. Thank you for sharing that because that does seem doable. And as you were saying that, I thought about there's a dentist that I watch. I knew I actually worked for his dad and now he's in residency. And it's interesting because he lost his wife to suicide and he's very open about talking about it. but I and that was like why I started attracting. I mean, I know this kid, I knew all the things going through and whatnot. gosh, you're old when you call like somebody in residency a kid, like shoot, that just connected. But regardless, he just posts about like

The dice on toothbrush just came up and he was just posting about it. He will post some things about dental. He'll also post about like, hey, like live life, or like, hey, this is me going in for like pediatric surgery today. And I actually really love following him. And I think kudos to him. He's in residency. He doesn't even have a practice. But he's building a brand of who he is as a human and he knows he's not gonna get everybody. But that's the dentist that I remember out of all the ones I see. And he's called Toothjack

Sean Hamel (31:06)

Mm.

Kiera (31:06)

Tooth Doc Jack. I his name is his name's Jackson.

And I thought was really clever of how he put it together. So he's branded as a dentist. but and he has scrubs and he doesn't. He's like, this is me walking home from class today. These are some of the things I thought of. And what I've noticed is people want to follow people and like see into their lives. Like I think that that's what social media is, is getting to know people as humans. And we were talking the other day and I was like, Isn't it creepy? Like the girls at the gym were showing a picture that they made by AI of them at a karaoke thing. They didn't go to it, but they were like teasing their friends and the picture looked so real.

And we were talking about we're like, how crazy is it that we don't know what's real or not real anymore? And I think that that's where people are craving this, like, I want to know you as a real person and I want to know that this wasn't done by AI because that's what I actually want to be paying for. I don't want to be paying for AI. I don't want to be paying for mass marketed things. I want to be paying for that. So many people have told me the reason that they choose Dental A Team or like they've listened to me on the podcast. People now applying for our company watch my video on our website and they're like, I loved your video so much. I love who you are and I want to work with you.

Sean Hamel (32:07)

Mm-hmm.

Kiera (32:07)

And so

I will say that even beyond just patients, it also can be a great way for you to attract team members to your practice. But I think, Sean, there are pieces and I love that you made it tactical because it felt so like a little woo-y. Like, what am I supposed to do? Like, how do I?

Sean Hamel (32:18)

Yeah.

Kiera (32:19)

But I love the I love the cross collab of your communities. Guys, you are part of the community. Do you how hard it is to be a Chonda is like when you're across the globe, I'm not really part of any community. I'm part of like your community-ish. I'm part of the dentist community, but there is no community where I'm gonna tag a local coffee shop that's gonna apply to a doctor in North Carolina.

But what will apply is bring on cool collaborators like Sean that you guys are all excited about that we can hear. That's what's going to drive you here. But for you, you are so lucky. You work in a community. So leverage those relationships, leverage that. I think that's a brilliant idea. And I hope people today take notes, they execute, and they realize that you as a human is what people are craving the most. They're not craving the standardized pieces. And you're right, everything does look the same. So you actually have a great opportunity right now, like pivot a little bit differently and it'll probably stand out quite quickly.

in

a really positive way. So Sean, thanks for that. Those are my like wraps. What other wraps do you have

Sean Hamel (33:05)

Yeah. Of course.

Kiera (33:08)

as we wrap up?

Sean Hamel (33:09)

No, I appreciate you. again, I know this is a lot to throw at people in half an hour. This is a t I do a two and a half hour presentation on this. and and

Kiera (33:17)

Yeah.

Sean Hamel (33:18)

the goal it's not to demonize anybody or anything. It's just, you know, the industry is broken. we can't help everybody. I mean, that's why I started speaking and and stuff, because this has been so successful for the offices that we work with and so many dentists largely are struggling.

And you know, this isn't a sales pitch. You can go do this stuff on your own. A lot of times, Kiera, when I started speaking about this, doctors would hear me talk and they would go and they would call their marketing company the next day. And that's where they'd be like, hey, we don't do that. Or hey, you know, we don't do custom. We can

Kiera (33:48)

Sure.

Sean Hamel (33:49)

why am I paying you $5,000 a month then if you're not

Kiera (33:52)

Ha ha ha.

Sean Hamel (33:52)

going to help me grow? Right. And so it's really become more of a passion for me to educate dental practitioners on here's why the messaging's off. Here's how easy it is to fix it.

And I love the fact that you push back and we're like, hey, does this really work? Yeah, like it does. and it it's it's well, well, and it's not

Kiera (34:07)

Hi, I'm Kiera. Nice to meet you.

Sean Hamel (34:10)

for any other reason, just that like people are never not gonna be afraid of the dentist. It's one of the things with AI too, the adoption with AI, and that's another podcast we can do, but people don't trust it. And so when you

Kiera (34:20)

Right. Mm-hmm.

Sean Hamel (34:22)

add that layer to it, it's just a recipe for disaster. But these principles work.

It's not a gimmick, it's not a sales pitch, it's just how human beings are wired when they're afraid of something. If you lean into that mindset and understand that the average person is at least a little like maybe they're not petrified, Kiera, but it's like the first day of school nerves where you're just kind of like, yeah, and then you go in and you meet your teacher and you find your locker and you start to calm down. Same

Kiera (34:47)

Mm.

Sean Hamel (34:48)

kind of thing. And you can replicate that by giving people emotional cues on the front side. So when you pay for SEO and you show up high, you also get the the butt in your chair.

Which is the big part that everybody seems to miss and nobody talks about. Hey, I rank really well, but I need patience to actually come in and spend money.

Kiera (35:05)

I think my takeaway from all of this today was it's not so much how do I get you seen, it's how do I get you chosen. And I think even that becomes a very different strategy. Like I'm going out onto the field, like I want to be chosen, I don't just want to be seen. that definitely was like my anchoring point. So, Sean, if people love you, they to hang out more with you, like tell them how they can connect with you guys. What do you guys specifically do? Are you a full force marketing agency? Do you build websites? Do you do social media? Do you do all that?

do just help them build out the strategy plan, kind of give them a little bit more and how they can connect with you.

Sean Hamel (35:38)

Absolutely. And this is actually called the chosen approach. That's what I call this presentation. I have a book that's coming that goes over how to do this. so yeah.

Kiera (35:45)

That's awesome. I'm glad I pulled out the right line.

Sean Hamel (35:49)

Well, hopefully, I mean that's it, you know, that is kind of the the best summation of the issue that's that's facing everybody. But you can always get in touch with me on the social media, Story Base Sean. You can find me on Instagram and Facebook. Art of Dental Marketing is just ArtOfDentalMarketing.com.

We have a new division of the company that's launching called ADM Express, which brings the core tenets of what we do, the wireframing, the messaging, but it's at a price point that's that's driven by our AI agent. His name is Alfred DDS, but he does

Kiera (36:17)

Mm-hmm.

Sean Hamel (36:18)

a lot of the customer service and the and ideation and things. but we do we do websites, SEO, we do all of that stuff, video, we help practices tell unique stories. We do ground marketing, we do general practice consulting, we can help with appointment setting, we can help with

you know, we can even help with like acquiring talent. So if practices are looking for hygienists or associates or anything, we don't do placement, but we can help them advertise for that. Really anything a dental practice needs to where the doctor

Kiera (36:46)

Yeah.

Sean Hamel (36:46)

can make more money and be chairside less and grow into the practice they've always wanted. we have a service or solution or a partner that can help them with that. And so we really are a full service growth agency. I w really wouldn't even call us a marketing agency anymore.

there's really not anybody like us in that, in that regard. But we just from websites and logo design and brand design to strategic messaging to hey, how do I get the gym next door to partner with us on stuff? You know, we help with literally everything necessary for a practice to grow.

Kiera (37:18)

Awesome. No, and Sean, thank you so much for that. So, guys, go check it out. If this resonated with you, go check it out. And I hope that you just recognize there's so many different ways for you to connect with people, connect with humans. that's what we're all about. I believe that the the human experience is about being connected to people rather than just being sold to people. So go connect, change it up, take one of these, implement it today. Reach out to Sean. If we can help you connect you in any way, we'll happily help. reach out [email protected].

Guys, go make today the best day. Sean, thank you for being on the podcast. Truly appreciate you being here. Of course.

Sean Hamel (37:50)

Thank you, Kiera. Appreciate you.

Kiera (37:52)

Of course. And for all of you listening, thank you for listening. And I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.

How great would it be, having systems that sail smoothly no matter who is sick, who changes positions, who quits, who [insert out-of-the-blue incident here]? Tiff and Dana talk about what exactly to implement in your practice so that communication flows.

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Tiffanie (00:01)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners. We are so excited to be here with you today. I say it every single time. and I have Miss Dana here with me. And Dana and I have been podcasting together for what feels like an eternity at this point. It's been a long time. she is an OG with me at this point. And if you ask Kira what OG means, please ask her next time you see her in person. Say what does OG mean? and she will tell you it's oldie but goodie. And so that is our company.

lingo for OG at this point. And Dana, you are my girl. You know I love podcasting with you. We have done so many podcasts. We were actually just talking about fam here. Like how many times can we take these different perspectives of these similar topics? And I'm like, gosh, yes, I agree. And it's like we we talk about such similar things, but Dana, I do think you and I do a really great job. You kind of coax a different

side you and I both come from different angles in so many different ways. So if my point of that is if you're here today and you hear this topic, you hear what we have to say and you're like, gosh, I I think I need a little bit more, do a quick Google search. I call it a Google search. It's just a a search on our website. on the podcast section of our website, if you type in any of the keywords that you hear today, there's gonna be more podcasts that pop up. It's maybe I think I could say like similar content, but that even feels wrong.

their topics you guys that we have just poured into and poured so much information out into the world because we want you to have everything that we have in our brains in your pocket. So make sure if you feel like gosh I just needed a little bit more go search it or if you like these were fantastic and what else are they talking about? What does Tiff mean? Go search on our website TheDentalATeam.com there's a whole podcast section there's a little search bar there. Go do yourself a little search and you can find just hundreds of topics. So

Dana, thank you for being here with me today. Thank you for always going rounds with me. and for prepping ahead of time so that we can see kind of where we want to take this, even though who knows where it'll go, you know, it could just change on the drop of a dime. But how are you this morning, Dana?

DAT-Dana (02:11)

Doing good. And I tip, I think that's my favorite part of podcasting with you. It's like we can come in with like best laid plans and then we just get to talking and it just starts to get natural and it goes where it needs to go. and you're right, while like maybe there's some similar topic in there, I do feel like there's always a new angle to it, there's always a new consideration in it. And so I love that you say, hey, if you want to deep dive, check out the other ones that are around the same top like topic point, because

It might not just be you and I, right? It might be you and someone else. It might be Kira that talks about it. And we all have just just different like skill sets and backgrounds that I think puts a little twist on everything. So I'm excited to be here with you.

Tiffanie (02:49)

Yeah. I

totally agree. I love how you said that. And I agree. And honestly, in the morning I'm like, gosh, we had a podcast. And then as soon as we get here, I'm like, I just get to hang out with Dana for an hour. So this is kind of cool. I definitely need this time with you. So thank you for being here and thank you for always having a fresh perspective. for our listeners, if you've never met Dana, please go check.

Her out, come to the events, come see her in person, listen to all of her podcasts. Cause Dana, you really do have an incredible mind, and I love picking it. So I'm gonna pick your brain today. And marketing gives us some really cool topics, and and I love like we talked about they'll they like put a spin on different words and you know, similar topics, but it's stated differently. The titles it's titled something really cool and catchy, and I think speaks to the fact that we do have really

I mean, dental is like it's dental. Like how how exciting can we get here? You know? But we really do have exciting takes on so much stuff. And something we've been working on, our our doctor's only mastermind actually tomorrow is kind of a similar topic, Dana. You mentioned this that like what if the doctor's not there? So something our company's been working on with our clients internally, and then it's transitioning now into outpouring messages here on platforms like this is really prepping the business.

for when something changes, when maybe a doctor's out, and that could be vacation, that could be gosh, my doctor, when I was like, gosh, Dana, I think I was twenty maybe. I remember coming in after Thanksgiving. It was it was the Monday after Thanksgiving. And my doctor is like on a scooter, like those little like what you know, his knees up scooter. And I'm like, what happened? And he had an A T V accident over Thanksgiving break and he had

like broken his ankle and it ended up being this whole thing. He was on that scooter for like eight months 'cause he had have multiple surgeries. It got infected. And I remember standing there at t nineteen, twenty, however old I was, looking at him and going, What if that was your hand? Like I knew in that moment how like serious this could be. So I think we think about plan for your vacations, but what about all the things that we can't plan for? Illnesses, you know, we've got

hygienists that have kids that have school, you know, things that they have to attend or breaks. Like we've we've got a an industry that's full of a lot of moms and a and a lot of illnesses. I know I was sick last week because we had a kid come home with something, you know. So I think Dana, to your point of our of our conversation earlier, it's really like systems that keep

working when plans change, but sometimes it's not even just something falling off of the schedule. Sometimes it's that we're short staffed or without an entire doctor because something has happened. So Dana, when you when I we read that topic and you you looked at it, I said it earlier. What did you think of? If you had to prep a practice, a dot a client was like, gosh, things are changing or something changed, what would be your go-to method for helping them prepare

for systems that can withstand change.

DAT-Dana (05:59)

Yeah.

Yeah. And I think that dentistry is still very and I love it. Some of my favorite offices, you know, I walk in and they're like, I I don't want to do dentistry without this assistant, right? Or I don't ever

Tiffanie (06:09)

Yeah.

DAT-Dana (06:09)

want to be in business without this, you know, office manager. And I think that dentistry still can be a little bit people dependent

Tiffanie (06:17)

For sure.

DAT-Dana (06:17)

versus system dependent. And I think we've had to talk about this a lot lately, because just a hiring climate.

a little bit of a hiring drought in some areas of dentistry and just in some areas of the country, it's been harder

Tiffanie (06:31)

Yeah.

DAT-Dana (06:31)

to I think hire and replace team members too. So I feel like getting practices to see that we have to have systems in place that no matter who is there, no matter how many team members are there, we can kind of pivot every day and and certain things continue to go on.

you know, especially like those patient experience things or the patient flow pieces and closing treatment, right? Those are things that have to go on, no matter how many people we have in the practice or or who is there or what the schedule looks like. And so I think that it's something we're having to work a lot with offices. And I think it's great to be able to have a platform like this to talk about how we do that.

Tiffanie (07:10)

Yeah, I totally agree. You said, in there like case acceptance and filling the schedule essentially, right? And I something that that makes me think of is the importance of communication. Right. We we call it handoffs. Everyone says, you know, what's your handoff or how do we do a handoff? What is you what is the verbiage we should use with a handoff? And I think if we narrow it down into like the simple word of communicate, making sure that we're all speaking to each other, it's the biggest

space that leaves room for error and I have I have a practice and I love them dearly and that doctor he constantly is saying like how do we how do we mitigate the chaos? How do we mitigate the chaos every day? Why is it crazy? Why are there, you know, cases are missing and schedules falling apart and phones are ringing off the hook. People are calling in and I'm like, gosh, it's so simple, it's annoying.

Because we want it to be this grandiose, like difficult thing, but it's so simple, it's annoying. We just need to talk to each other more. We need to say what's in our our brain to one another and prep and plan together. If everyone knew that Joanna called out this morning and that the assistance team were short staffed, everyone could pick up the pieces in their area and help. But most of the time, I feel like the hygiene department doesn't even know.

that there's a dental assistant missing until sterile's backed up and they're like, What is going on? And they're like, Where's Joanna? Where has she

DAT-Dana (08:38)

Mm.

Tiffanie (08:38)

been all day? It's like three hours into the workday and the assistants are running ragged, or vice versa. Like people just we're not communicating enough. What do you feel, Dana?

DAT-Dana (08:48)

Yeah, I agree with you and I feel like it's it you are you are it's such a silly

Answer, right? Because the everybody wants it to be this thing that, like, I would have never thought of that, right? Or my gosh, that's like just this so far out there idea. And you are 100% right because a team that is on the same page or a team that communicates throughout the day, it doesn't matter if you normally sit in that seat. It doesn't matter if you've just jumped in. If I'm giving you all the pieces that you need and I'm setting you up for success, it doesn't matter if it's something that you do day in and day out, or if you just are Johnny on the spot because you happen to be free in those five minutes.

Tiffanie (09:24)

And where do you think that the easiest space is, like, systems wise? So if we turn this into, okay, docs, you're harping on me, communication is too broad. You want systems, like what are two systems that practices could focus on every day that regardless of who's there, whatever whatever the change is, they stick

DAT-Dana (09:42)

Yeah, I think the two biggest tools for communication and practice are route slips. because there's just a lot of information already pre-ready there. So that like if you're a new person on the team, if you're a temp on the team, if you are covering a position you don't normally cover, pretty much a lot of the patient information to continue at least that patient flow is on the route slip plus there's space that you can write things down that you can take your own notes that you need to give to the next person. So I would say route slips and then secondary, like you already mentioned, Tiff, I think handoffs are just

a huge piece communication tool that just makes sure that the patient flow continues as well as every step of the way we're all on the same page and the patient feels it too.

Tiffanie (10:24)

Yeah. Yeah, I think that's smart. And I I love the route slips because I think makes it easy to win. Like all of the information that you need is on there. And so in the case of a hygienist being out and now we've got a temp hygienist or Joanna being out and everybody's scattered, like all the information is already written down. And a lot of practices, and I'm not knocking this if it works for you, great. They want they use messaging systems, right? And so great that works too.

But the handoff the paper forces that communication and the verbal communication to one another is what creates that connection, in my opinion. Right. So we've we've got to be able to connect with one another in order to bridge that gap. but as you were talking to Dana, as you were saying route slips, I also thought morning huddles. And I think you do a stellar morning huddle routine, like you really get

practices excited for them and I know you've got a few tricks up your sleeve, but how would you go about a practice who doesn't do morning huddles and they're like, gosh, Dana, like we are just skirting in as like on time. Like I have an office, I love them dearly, that we cannot get that associate dentist there to save our lives of ten like she's ten minutes after her patients, right? So like, but this morning huddle can help

I think mitigate change as well because you thought r you said route slips and I thought, I maybe we pass them out the morning. How would you help a practice in implement morning huddle?

DAT-Dana (12:00)

Yeah. And honestly, to be you can have a really stellar morning huddle in 10 minutes, right? So I think that that's that's a little bit of a misconception in practice. They're like, well, then we need to come in 30 minutes earlier than we typically do. No, no, no. We're looking for a window of about 10 minutes. and in that it's like we just want to celebrate what went really well the day before, right? We want to look at our schedule, patients that are on the schedule. Is there any pertinent information? I one of my biggest, I don't want to say pet peeves because I understand it, right? When I go into a practice, but I'm like, all right, it's morning.

huddle and I'm like super pumped and I get there and we're just like reading the schedule. Like we can all read the

Tiffanie (12:33)

Yeah, they're like a f Dio on number fifteen at eleven.

DAT-Dana (12:36)

schedule. Like this, like just to have a morning huddle as like a schedule read, I think we can all just put our eyeballs on it and

Tiffanie (12:43)

Mm-hmm.

DAT-Dana (12:43)

like see that this is what we're doing. So I think just like pertinent information would stand out. Do we have you know any concerns for the patients that are going to be in our chair anything that everybody needs to know. Like

Maybe that lab case in the afternoon isn't here yet, and we need to get on the phone and we need to call them, right? And we need to make sure they said noon, we need to make sure it's going to be there at noon, right? So those types of pieces. and I also like morning huddle just as like you said, Tiff. Like if Joanna's not going to be here today because she is out sick, are there any updates that are pertinent for today? We don't discuss issues in Morning Huddle. We don't, but if there's something that's affecting the schedule today, I want it discussed in Morning Huddle. And if we can, which I

love because I just feel like Morning Huddle is the only time in the day where we're really all together and we're really all kind of focused. I love to build in a culture piece just because I feel like again, it's the it's the point in which we are to together. And I feel like just adding that like human piece to get to know each other as humans because if we don't care about each other as humans, why the heck are we there? Right. So

Tiffanie (13:45)

huh.

DAT-Dana (13:46)

I do like those pieces in Morning Huddle, but I agree with you when when we've got a day where we do have to pivot, right? And maybe we had

Pivot doesn't mean a team member's out. Pivot could mean somebody called and like, we've got to get an emergency in today, right? Or we've got a plan to be able to pivot if an emergency calls. I think morning huddle is essential for those things. And I think you can do a really bang up job at a morning huddle in 10 minutes. team members just have to like be bought in to like this is our time to game plan. This is our time that if, hey, we accidentally scheduled kind of a messy afternoon, we're gonna game plan it. We're gonna make sure that it goes as smooth as possible.

All together.

Tiffanie (14:24)

Yeah. Yep. I love that. I think you hit on all the pieces I was thinking. I knew that culture piece. I was like, I know she's gonna throw some culture in there. And it's massive because the communication, we do it in our company. Something that I like to remind people or or tell people if they don't know is Dental A Team will rarely ever suggest something that we haven't ourselves used, either in practice, like in a dental practice or

within our own company. So when it comes to the structure of a business and the communication that's upheld, we we have all of that in our company. We do leadership meetings, we do traction style, level ten meetings every Monday. We do quarterlies, we do yearlies, we do morning huddles, we do all of the pieces that we talk about here on the podcast and within our consulting because they work and because we want to

make sure that they work. Like we we don't we don't test things on you typically. I'm gonna say typically. Sometimes I do. Sometimes

DAT-Dana (15:25)

Exactly.

Tiffanie (15:26)

I'm like, I don't know, try this. Like I'm just making it up. but I think the morning huddle is such a massive piece of like that camaraderie. Like you said, if we're not here for each other, what are we even what are we even doing? Right. And when I see practices falling apart at the seams or they're like, gosh, like the plans changed and everything fell apart, right?

Joanna was out or hygienist was out or the schedule fell apart. Like we've got I how many times, Zina, do we see the schedule completely fall apart? And the back office, I walk in and I see hygienists like at their computers, like, well, I don't know who's gonna fix this. And we've got dental assistants in sterile, like what can what else can we put away? We've got nothing to do. And we've got front office scrambling and a doctor hovering over them, like fill the schedule.

But nobody actually knows what anyone else is doing or how they can help the situation. They're all just in their own little worlds. And to be fair, that's where we live, right? Especially hygiene. Like you have an operatory. You're literally in in a world and you don't leave that operatory for sometimes six or eight hours, not even to eat. So

that morning huddle and those handoffs, those route slips, literally forcing the the departmental communication, one department to the other department and person to person increases the relationship value between every individual in that practice. And when you've got an odd man out, it shows really quickly, but even the odd man out starts to come around eventually 99% of the time. Yeah.

DAT-Dana (17:03)

Yeah. Yeah.

I agree with you.

Tiffanie (17:05)

And then always to our point, write them down. And I

DAT-Dana (17:08)

Did you

Tiffanie (17:09)

think I was thinking I because I know we always do operations manual. Dana's my operations manual girl. But I was thinking Dana of a great question because I think we see this a lot, especially with startups. We get quite a few startups that eat at least reach out and say, Hey, give me some tips to start when I'm, you know, up to five hundred to eight hundred to a tho to a million, I'll call you, right? So we do get a lot of that. And I think one of the biggest things we get is

How can I start if I don't have an operations manual? Right. And it's like, how do I how do I do a handoff if it's not written down? Well one, make it and then write it down. But Dana, how do you how do you help practices overcome that hurdle of I I guess my hurdle thought is people hold back from taking that next step because they feel like they don't have the tool. So rather than being creative and just trying something.

they'll kind of keep themselves where they are because the pain now has become bearable. I know what this pain feels like and I don't know what that pain feels like. So how do you help practices and doctors jump over that hurdle to be more prepared when plans do change like this?

DAT-Dana (18:19)

Yeah. I feel like for me, it's exactly what you said. It's try it, track it, write it down if it works, right? And if it doesn't work, then let's try something else, right? Or let's like

Tiffanie (18:29)

Yeah.

DAT-Dana (18:29)

figure out what pieces of it worked. And then we can kind of pivot from there. But I do feel like a lot of like a and and find a networking group, right? You don't have to you don't have to like come up with the idea yourself, right? But pick one thing, try it out.

Track it so we know if it worked or it didn't. Like what tells you that what you're trying is working or not working? So track it. And then if it's off track, then let's figure out what piece of it or do we need to scrap it and start over again and get a new idea.

Tiffanie (19:02)

Yep. It's all the way down to morning huddles, all the way down to handoffs, to case acceptance, right? Because these these pieces we're talking about here, they will increase metrics like treatment planning, right? Like case acceptance, diagnosis. If you're doing chair side handoffs, your assistant and your hygienist is handing off to you the doctor, your case or your case diagnosis, your diagnosis amount, the amount you're willing to diagnose on a single patient.

will increase just because of that communication because you are more comfortable in that room with the people who are there. You've been introduced to that patient and you naturally will diagnose more than you would have before. Meaning, it could be, it might not be, becomes a hey, I'm actually kind of concerned about this. Let's talk about it. Might not be a filling, but you're actually talking about it instead of keeping it in your head. So Dana, to your point,

The tracking piece sometimes I think feels hard for people because they're like, cool, we did nine out of ten handoffs today, great, but that's not what we're tracking. Like, why are we doing handoffs? We're doing handoffs to ensure that the bottom line is increasing. So how is case diagnosis, case acceptance, production, collections? I think Dana, that is a wildly misunderstood metric when it comes to communication. Your collections will increase.

And your AR will decrease when your team knows how to communicate. So I love that. You said try it, track it, write down if it works. And if y'all took anything, it's those three things today. Try it, track it. I was like, dang, that was it. That was the mic shop moment of this podcast right now. So if you didn't get that, listen again. Dana always comes in clutch with something. I think it's like your mom.

piece, right? Like you've got so many littles running around that you're coordinating. You're like, nope, we gotta simplify this. We got to make it a set of three. How do we build a song into it? How do we how do we chant this? I love

DAT-Dana (21:01)

Right.

Tiffanie (21:02)

that so much. I love it. Try it, track it, write it down if it works. So Dana, is there any I mean I feel like that was our mic job. Is there anything you would add to that or any other suggestions for those who are trying to ensure that when change happens they can pivot?

DAT-Dana (21:17)

No, I think honestly, Tiff, I think yes, that would might be the mic job at the end, but I think you had it from the beginning and it all comes down to the communication tools within the practice. Because if we can keep the communication strong and we can keep those tools in place, it doesn't matter who's there, it doesn't matter what patient's in our chair, it doesn't matter what our schedule looks like, right? Those communication pieces you will stay on track all day long just by simply having those standard pieces that you use all the time.

Tiffanie (21:46)

Yep. I completely agree. yeah. And practices come and they want a full sweep of every system in their practice and they feel like they cannot be successful until they get all of it. And it really comes down to three to five awesome systems that you repeat every single day. And that's how you get the results, just like the gym. Like you're not you're not doing sixty two different exercises when you're there.

you're probably doing three to five things really well, increasing your weight, increasing the resistance, and getting stronger over time. So I love it. Awesome. Thank you, Dana. Thank you, listeners. I hope you enjoyed this one. Again, if there were pieces that you thought you were gonna get or you want a little bit more, by all means take a keyword.

maybe not the mic drop moment that was that was a today special but take a keyword something that stuck out to you handoff ndr is what we call our handoffs there's a million morning huddle and go search on our website TheDentalATeam.com there's a podcast section there's a little search tool there we actually worked really hard to ensure that search tool was there for you so go use it and as always you can reach out anytime [email protected] we are more than happy to help we have

forms and documents for just about everything that we do and we openly share them with everyone. So whether you are a client, a prospective client, someone starting a business, someone who may never work with us, but you love listening to our beautiful voices, just reach [email protected] and as always drop us a five star review. We love to hear from you and we will catch you next time.

Practice success doesn't always equal personal life happiness. Kiera talks about the Yes Success Model, and how to align your business goals with your personal life goals, because they're allowed to complement each other (and should, frankly). She asks probing questions that'll get you thinking about alignment and finding the right motivating factors to keep going.

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Transcript:

Kiera (00:01)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera. And I am so excited because I love today's topic. And I hope that it just gives you a filtering and a process of how do I like actually make like growth decisions and life goals and like what is that long-term vision clarity? Like to me, it's such an empowering topic for you. And I'm so excited because I think that so many practice owners, when I meet them or we work with them, is they actually build a successful practice that they don't want. I've done it. I built a business that I didn't freaking want to work in. And I've said, like, hey, if I

If I actually like didn't have to work here and I didn't own this, would I keep working here? And if I can't say yes, then we might want to rework this. and honestly, growth without direction can leave you with more stress, more responsibility, and less freedom. And so today I just want to work on like sometimes bigger isn't always better. Sometimes like we just need to be better aligned is better. So bigger isn't always better. Doesn't mean bigger is wrong, but better aligned is where we're actually trying to go. So I want you guys just to know like a lot of owners feel stuck.

Even after they hit success. Like I had a podcast a while of like the empty millionaire. Like I thought like if I hit a million, everybody says this and I was like, Yeah, right, I'm not gonna be that person. No, I remember being like, So this is it, huh? Like, all right, we've hit a million.

Cool. Do I love my life? No. Like it was this wild thing. And so, like, why do we still feel stuck after hitting success? And how to create this vision that guides a lot of your decisions to where you have a filtering process of yes or no? Like I think about Willy Wonka and the golden egg, like yes, no, good, bad, like giving you kind of that framework to know. And then like what are some questions you should be asking before your next big move? So I think it's really fascinating because when we work with a client and we get on our first call, I'm not here to say like, what do you, what do you want to produce?

we call it the yes success model and the why stands for you. The number one thing I want to know is like what what's the life that you're trying to build? I say it often I will say it here. Your business should serve your life, not the other way around. And I've gotten it wrong for so many years where I've given up so much of my life to serve the business. I remember being like, I think back to when I first started the company and Jason and I would be hanging out and we were literally floating down the river. I kid you not, like we're rafting tubing, and I'm on my phone answering emails. And that was an aha moment for me of like here, I think you're doing this wrong.

Like you need to freaking shut it off and like be present. And I'm building like that's not the life I want. I don't want to be working seven days a week. I don't want to be psycho. I don't want to be stressed out of my mind. So like I think it's really powerful. Like I call it the yes success model. You are number one pillar. Then it's earnings and then it's systems and team development, not the other way around. If I mess up on you and your life and we are building a practice and you're not fulfilled at the end, we have failed. And that is my definition of it. So I don't want you guys chasing someone else's version of success.

I don't want you chasing more locations or operatories or production. I want you doing this because this lights you up and this is your vision and that not because you feel like that's what you should be doing. We're gonna stop shooting on ourselves. I have a practice, they produce about four million a year. They're at a 35% overhead, they work four days a week. People are like, you need another practice, and they're like, we don't want to. This is the life we want. And I think sometimes being that stalwart in your vision is really, really critical and pivotal. So today I just want you to like.

realize that vision planning, like I talk to offices all the time, if your team's not following, it's because you don't have a strong enough vision. If you're not happy in your life, it's because you don't have a strong enough vision of where you actually want to go. So I want you to really have these growth decisions that move you closer to the life you actually want, not further and further away from that. So number one, what are we gonna do? Hi, we're Dental A Team. I'm obsessed with you. I'm here to help you have the dreamiest life you could ever imagine. I love, love, love helping dentists and teams come together to live their best life.

And I really want to empower you, CEO dentist out there, the dentist who is the CEO of their life and their practice. I call it life and business on purpose. Like let's GSD together. So step one is let's define success beyond production. And for me, this is really hard. I remember there was a dentist I was talking to, and he's like, But Kiera, production is the only thing we can compare against. It's the only actual number. You're right. There is no number of like, what's my fulfillment measure today? Am I like 10%, 20%? There's nothing in there.

So it's really, really hard because sometimes we're like, well, my production number is the only thing that I compare with all the other dentists. But I have a dentist who's making a million a year, like he's producing a million a year, works three days a week, and loves his life. There is no way for me to say, like, what's his success measure? I can know what his production is and like, hey, I got an office over here doing 29 million. But we got to define our success beyond production. So production's a result, it's not a vision. So I really want you to have like

it's hard because like setting revenue goals without lifestyle goals is a miss. Saying yes to every opportunity is another miss. Feeling successful on paper but exhausted in reality, that's another miss. So we pivot it and sometimes I feel like this is the time where like pretend I'm your fairy godmother and I'm just gonna wave my magic wand for you. Like if you had no stressors, you didn't feel like anybody was judging you, no parents, no spouse, no family, no friends, no no, I don't know, like mean girl or mean guy sitting on your shoulder, how many days do you actually want to work?

What kind of dentistry do I actually love doing? When do I want to retire? Or like maybe scale back a few days? What about my family to look like? How much freedom do I actually want? Notice I didn't put in there any dollars in there because if we can focus on vision first, dollars come second. If I know what your vision is and what your life is, fantastic. We can go build. You guys, dentistry is untapped. It's freaking awesome. Like, so let's just build. Like, what does that look like? And you might realize, like, I don't know, Kiera. And so I was actually working with a friend this last weekend.

And he's like, Kiera, what do you do when you don't know where you want to go? And I was like, Well, step one is we got to have a little guiding star. Like, let's just do five or 10 years from today. What's your age and what do you want that to look like? You could go further and you could say, when I'm 90, what do I think I'd want to be doing right now? Like when Kiera's reliving her life at 90, sitting on her rocking chair with hot pink hair, like it's actually cutting candy. Pink, you're welcome. for that visual, like, what do I want my life to look like? So, whichever one's gonna work for you.

Sometimes a tenure for me, I just need like a little glowing light up on the hill. That's written in pencil. It doesn't have to be permanent. But what do I want that life to look like? And most people usually do it based on one of three things. It's either going to be a dollar amount, which is totally fine. It's going to be on a fulfillment, like what's going to drive you, or it's going to be on a purpose. So, like for me, massive impact. I drive so hard because I want to impact and serve every dang dentist out there. So share this podcast with somebody. Help me on my goal. Like, I'm obsessed with helping dentists have their best lives.

And so like that drives me literally in the middle of every vision board, unintentionally, it says massive impact. Like, what can I do that's gonna leave a stamp and a mark on so many people's lives? And so I built the podcast for free because it was a way for us to reach more people. I hope we brighten your day. You're welcome. Go leave us a review for it and tell more people about it so more people we can serve. Like genuinely, that's what it was. But that's like in the middle of my goal board. So for me, it's impact. Like numbers are super fun and numbers drive me hard. And I'm not here to say like numbers are wrong. I am highly numbers driven.

But like, what's the impact? That's gonna motivate me so much more. Like serving 500 dentists and then serving a thousand dentists. Like that to me is something of like a churn. I want to make 40 millionaires in my next lifetime. Like, how do I do that? Like the next decade of my life. So, like, I look at this, but also like, what is the life that I want? What's the trade-off? They can be hand in hand. So I really want you to look at like what is it? I told you about that office that I've got this 3.5, 35% overhead.

They don't want another practice. They literally want to live. They don't want another associate. They have great, it's all the systems are done. They don't want to deal with the headache of that. And I'm like, fantastic. You want fewer clinical days. I've got another doctor. He's like, Kiera, I want to go play a pickleball. I used to like have a lake house and all these other things. Like, I want it simple. I want to play pickleball. And I want to be able to hang out with my family. Your lighthouse of 10 years or your motivator, it can be a little fuzzy up there. It doesn't have to be perfect.

But getting that vision out of you is something I'm obsessed with because your practice should support your life and not the other way around. And once you get your identity outside of success, you're gonna realize like, and hey, guess what? If that practice goes away tomorrow, are you still a human? Are you still happy? If not, we've got to figure out because you need to be a full, complete person and not just a dentist producing. So I don't want you building a practice that you want to eventually escape. I want you building a practice.

Of what like I'm so excited and like I love that part of my life. and it doesn't mean we have to have every day great, but we want to love this part of it. So I'd really love for you to write down what success looks like for your life first and then your practice. Also be careful because I found like for me, I used to have a definition of success that was really hard to achieve. Tony Robbins said it really well. He says, We make it really easy to feel bad about ourselves and really hard to feel good. So like for success, you might be like,

Have to make a million every year and I have to drive this kind of car and I have to live at this type of house and I have to do this and this and this and this and this and this and this. Well, you're never gonna hit that. You made it so impossible for you to ever feel happy and successful. And I'm not here to say like lower your goals and dreams, but like, is a million really gonna make you happy? Is living in that house really gonna drive you for your happiness and your thing, or is that just something you feel like you should do because that's what people do? Just a question to ask. I want you to write down what success looks like for you, and I want you to make it easy for you to hit success.

It's not your production. Success for your life. What does that look like 90 years, 10 years from now? Whatever it is, but let's write that down and let's get that going. Okay. Number two, I want you to filter every opportunity now through this vision. So this hurts. This is hard. This is the discipline side. Not every opportunity is right or a good opportunity. This year, gosh, I don't have my bracelets on. I usually wear bracelets. this year I actually have a bracelet that says no.

To remind myself that saying no is equally as important as saying yes. Does that actually fit and fulfill the life I'm building? Or does it not? I have a sign pointing right over here. It says she designed a life she loved. And that's the ultimate goal is we need to be designing, creating, not managing, a life we are freaking obsessed with. So when I look at this, like buying another practice because it's available, if that doesn't fit into your life vision and what you want to do and less this, like I remember I had a doctor, he would set up.

Everything was done. We checked every box, every tea. I was like, all right, guys, we're wrapping up. Like, I don't know what else to consult you on. Like, truly what we set out to do, we've accomplished. Like, let's let's go. And now I we have another practice. And I was like, okay, so you have a college-age student. Like just imagine like your child is college age now, like they're out of the house, they're done, and you're about to bring on a screaming baby. Are you sure you want to buy this practice? And this doctor was like, Kiera, I do.

Like I really am excited for the grind and the drive and the like thrill of building something else. And they've done an amazing job. It's been three years. They took them from 500,000 to 2.5 million, like crushed it. I'm so proud of them. But it wasn't just because it became available. It fit. And so really checking to make sure, like, does this fit my life? Adding services in because everyone else does. Just because everyone does implants doesn't mean you need to. It's got to fit what you love. Hiring because you're busy instead of because it's strategic. Like, why am I hiring? Why are we doing these things? So

I want you to like start to filter through. You got your vision, you got your 10-year plan. Like, what does your life look like? Next step is like, does this move me towards my vision or away from it? And don't be careful where I can justify my life away. Like I can justify the shenanigans out of a lot of decisions. Will this improve that my quality of life? And will this make the practice stronger or just bigger? So those are some good filtering questions for you. And so, like I said, a lot of these, like when we choose to make decisions, like maybe we're gonna have a bigger leadership team or I'm gonna improve systems or

We're gonna go hunker down and like focus on profitability. My doctor who wants to like got rid of the lighthouse. We simplified so much. They're like, it's profit and like less stress is what I want. But I want you to know that just because you write this vision today does not mean it's permanent. It's like very much in pencil. You're allowed to rewrite this as much as you want because when you hit this, I want you to feel fulfilled and not empty at the end of it. So looking to see how is this helping me have more freedom, have more life. Like I said, I got a doctor who's working.

three days a week making a million and so happy. Like sometimes I look at him and I'm like, I am jealous and so happy of your life. I've got another doctor who works six days a week and they're producing like five, six, seven million. Success comes in all shapes and sizes. And this is actually why I love bringing our doctors together. there was one doctor and she told me she's like, Kiera, I really don't like coming to the mastermind because I compare. And I was like, gosh darn, like you missed it, honey. Like there is no space that you have to compare. It's like hey I'm gonna rip off their ideas that are great ideas.

And I'm also going to be so proud of who I am and so confident. And that to me is when you have a very solid vision. You can walk into a room and you can hear a lot of people, but you don't walk out there feeling any less because you're like, this is my life that I'm creating. I am designing a life I'm obsessed with. And when you can say that, it just makes your decision making easier. But I would say have that locked, have it up on a board to where you're constantly focused on that, saying no, not saying yes to every opportunity just because it's there, but truly this is gonna help your decision making process become so much easier.

If it doesn't fit the vision, it's a distraction. And it's a no. So just say no and move on. That way you are obsessed with creating your life rather than managing it. So I want you to think about your next major decision and ask, does it support the future I'm trying to build? And if it does, rock on. If it doesn't, rock on. We just want to make sure that we're driving you forward. And then my next step is like revisit this vision every year at a minimum. I like to do my like, gosh. Are you ready to meet Kiera for real? I have been using the passion planner. Thank you, Monica. I know you listen to the podcast. This is a shout out to

I use the passion planner. It literally at the end of every month has reflection questions for me. It says, What was a memorable part of this past month? Describe it. What were three lessons you learned this past month? Review your planner for the past month and assess your priorities. Are you happy with how you spent your time? If not, what steps can you take next month to adjust them? What did you accomplish this past month? What are you proud of? How are you different between this past month and the month before it? What or who are you especially grateful for this past month? Name three ways you can grow this upcoming month. What concrete actions can you take to work towards these?

From one to one to ten, how do you feel overall about this past month? And this is supposed to you can take those same questions. I write my vision out. And a lot of times I use that reflection to also ask myself, am I getting closer or further away from the vision I set for myself? Every quarter I revisit our company's vision and my personal vision. Am I closer or further away? And what do need to do to course correct? At the end of every single year, kid you not, I literally write it. It says 2026. Like, let me just pull it up right now so you guys know.

That I'm not there. So 2026, my word this year is happy. and it's outcomes over so 2026, the year of happy. Kiera's the happiest version of herself. She does things that light her up. Outcomes over activity say no. This is my dream of a life that I am creating daily. And I have my purpose, I have what my goals are, I have my things on there, I have my mission statement, I have my personal important goals this year.

And I have my consulting goals for our company of what I want. And then I break it down into quarters of what needs to happen. And I review this monthly and I review this quarterly and I review it at the end of the year. My goal is like, what do I need to do and how do I need to drive towards this? So really it's a like review it every year at a minimum. I have a goal board. I put mine out on Canvas so I don't forget about it. To me, if it's if I'm creating my life rather than just managing it, I better be actively working towards that rather than just stumbling and hoping I make it.

So I want you to like when I get doctors and teams aligned on their one year, their three year, their ten year, thank you, traction for that model. They're able to all row. I have a doctor that we're working with right now. They're about a five million dollar practice. And they like we started out, we like got all the leadership team aligned about almost two months ago now. And they've been running their meetings. And today we got on our call and they were like, Kiera, we actually are rowing like.

The leadership highlight was we're all having better communication. We're all focusing on the same thing and we're all headed in the same direction. And to me, that lights me up because that team's lit up. But what's even cooler is on the backside of it, that doctor has their personal life goals that they're working towards in conjunction with their business goals. This doctor has never been happier. And I think about that. To me, that is the freaking success of what we're aiming for. So I encourage you, like have an annual vision day or put it in there monthly of like review my vision and see.

Get a passion planner. I know it sounds so silly, but like this forces me not to forget. And to me, my vision is the most important thing. Secondary is executing on it and not just having it as a hope and a wish, but something I know I'm confident I will actually have. So for you, quick wrap up on this. I hope you loved it today, is divine divine your success beyond just production. Like, what is that? And make it easier to feel good and harder to feel bad. Filter our decisions through that vision. We do the same thing for teams. If it's not aligned with our vision, we don't do it now.

And then revisit that vision every single month, every single year, every single quarter, whatever's right for you. Because I really want you to know that the best life and the best practice are built on purpose, not by accident. You truly are intentional by this. Like I want you to be designing a life you love, not just managing one that's given to you. When your vision is crystal clear, your decisions become much easier. So if you feel like you're being pulled in a bajillion directions, like it might be that you're not doing too much, it might just be that we don't have a clear vision of where you need to go.

So let's define that up. Let's help you. This is something we do with all of our offices, your personal life and your business. And they need to be married together and they need to be serving you. Life and business on purpose. You're worth it. You deserve it. You went and took the risk of becoming a business owner. Now let's reap the rewards of that. Success has two sides of the coin, the hard side and the great side. Let's get more of that great side. So that way when you reach these successful milestones, you feel freaking lit up, fulfilled, and so happy that you are actually living your dream of a life and not just managing what's coming your way. So reach out.

[email protected]. Go live your best life. Do not make this just a hope and a wish. I used to write on my mirror when I was little. I said, don't just dream, do. And I encourage you to do the same. And with that, thank you guys so much for listening, and I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team podcast.

It's Kiera and Britt on the pod together, with listeners getting a live look into how the Dental A-Team is thinking about the year's end — plus ideas as to what could be copied over to dental practices. There's a large emphasis on cost estimates and budgeting, including knowing when to fine-tune production or start cutting, and finding alignment as a team over those decisions.

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Transcript:

Kiera (00:00)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera and today, wow, today feels like it should be written in the history books. Me and the Brittany Stone, No BS Britt coming on the podcast today. Britt, how you doing today?

Brittany (00:12)

Good, was just thinking it's been a minute since I've been on the podcast.

Kiera (00:16)

I know. I always message Britt when I need like certain topics. I'm like, hey, you want a podcast with me? And Britt's nice to say yes to me. I don't I don't bring Britt on as much as we used to. Britt doesn't actively take clients now. Britt hangs out in the background with me more often. So Britt, I think that that's like a win. I'm gonna say it's a win. Like Britt gets to be a little,

Brittany (00:36)

I'll take it as a win.

Kiera (00:38)

yeah. We work on some cool, crazy projects. We're working on a real fun one right now, getting ready for next year.

Britt, that spreadsheet's sexy. Spreadsheets are kind of my love language. So reviewed that

Brittany (00:48)

Thank you.

Kiera (00:48)

this last week and we're excited. There's some fun things coming up in the company for all future clients and our current clients. So Britt and I work behind the scenes, but yeah, No BS Britt. If you guys don't know her, she has been a consultant for quite a while. She has like three favorite clients that she kept when she decided to, you know, move along. And then she works in our operations in HR. And Britt is just a wealth of knowledge. She also's a hygienist. So

All things, but Britt and I decided we'd get on the podcast. AK I decided and asked Britt if she would join me is really how this shook out.

Brittany (01:16)

Yeah

Kiera (01:20)

we want to talk about like some of the things we're doing in Dental A Team for end of year planning. And I figured Britt and I, like these are our real everyday conversations, helping you guys plan and prepare for end of year. And Britt, maybe I'm a little psychotic on end of year planning, but I figured like let's kind of go through what we do together in our company, how we set up, and then hopefully again for offices you guys can be prepping for.

end of year. So that's my that's my plan for today, Britt. I hope you're on board with that.

Brittany (01:45)

I mean, I like it. think our company sometimes has a little bit more, has a few more variables than like dental practice

Kiera (01:51)

Yeah.

Brittany (01:52)

end of year planning. think we'll just say that on the like psychotic comment, but dental

Kiera (01:58)

Yeah.

Brittany (01:58)

practices, not to say there aren't variables involved, but you know, cost of travel and stuff like that is real fun right now.

Kiera (02:07)

I mean, seriously, our travel costs, we were going through all of our expenses this year and I was like, wow, we are up a lot. And a lot of them are just travel costs. Like I was shocked at how much travel has gone up. There's just a lot of things, right? Everybody's dealing with inflation. And so

Brittany (02:20)

Mm-hmm.

Kiera (02:21)

as we go through it, I think systematically Britt and I start planning our year around September time. So we'll be going through and we're gonna pull up all of our costs for last year. So we're gonna look to see.

We're gonna look at 2025 and then we're gonna run from 2026 from January till September. What is that? And then I don't know what the word is, Britt. Like when you just I think it's project out. That's the word I'm looking for. We're gonna project, yeah. Choose the word. We're

Brittany (02:43)

Protect, forecast, choose your word.

Kiera (02:46)

gonna project your forecast out how much we think we're gonna spend for the rest of the year. So that way we can get a good glimpse of what does everything look like? How does this work? What what are we actually doing? And then becomes my favorite part until I hate this part.

You then go

Brittany (02:59)

Zzzzz

Kiera (03:00)

to what we plan for next year. And so

Brittany (03:02)

Mm-hmm.

Kiera (03:03)

Literally there's a line item of like what's 2026? And then what do we think 2027 is? And man, Britt, we got our booties burned on some of the things we projected last year. Like we thought it was only gonna be 90,000 and it came in at like 120. So I definitely recommend looking at that. but also like Britt, what are some of the things you see for us and then also for offices? Like when we're projecting out for next year.

What are some of those costs to be planning in? Cause you've got your everyday ones. We're going need to impact for inflation. Like you said, like we're going to sell travels. Like we're going to have to need to boost that up. You still got merchant fees. You still have your rent. You still got these different pieces.

Brittany (03:35)

Thank

Kiera (03:37)

But like, what are some of the additional things that like you and I talk about in the business that I think a lot of practices might also be considering in their practices too?

Brittany (03:44)

Yeah, I think that the steady things are the easier things, right, to anticipate. It's when you're wanting to go and do some fun stuff like, hey,

Kiera (03:52)

Yeah.

Brittany (03:52)

let's go buy this thing or let's, you know, implement lasers across hygiene and we're going to need to go and buy lasers for everybody or things like that where there's going to be a bigger cost, bigger expense, bigger investment or like, hey, we want to build out.

three ops, right? What does that mean? Does that also mean we're adding in more providers if we're building out those operatories? So some of those things that are one, bigger costs, two, there's opportunity involved. So like there should be some revenue involved with that, of course, if we're investing in those types of things, but being able to plan out both sides of them. So one, what's our investment? One is that investment hitting us? What's that going to look like? And two, right, then like

Part of the fun is like the, are we banking on being the result of that thing? So

Kiera (04:43)

Yeah.

Brittany (04:44)

if it's provider related in a dental practice, right? What does that mean for even our revenue, our production, if we're gonna be adding on a hygienist or adding on, you know, another doctor to the practice that we didn't have there before. If it's just

Kiera (04:58)

Yeah.

Brittany (04:58)

an expense, right? Then planning for that expense and how you're gonna go about paying for it, whether it's gonna be.

one lump sum that's going hit us or if we're going to finance something and then that bill is going to be coming to us every month and we're going to be paying it out.

Kiera (05:13)

Yeah. And Brett, I think when you talk about that, like it is tricky. And I do think we have a bit more variable expenses. Like for us, it's like dental offices, you know, you got your dental assistant, hygienist. For us, we're like, shoot, when do we need to hire a consultant? Like, don't be too early,

Brittany (05:27)

you

Kiera (05:27)

don't be too late. What's their capacity that they can handle? so I do think our company does have a few more variables, but I also think, like you said, it's a okay, what is it going to cost? And then what is our projected income for next year or our revenue?

And I'm really excited because in our mastermind with our doctors coming person, this is mine and Britt's like little power project that we've been working on of like

Brittany (05:47)

Thanks

Kiera (05:48)

helping doctors see, like build in all the expenses that you want. Then let's see what we're gonna produce in how many days and what's your dollar per hour. And then it's like figuring out which levers we can push. And Britt, I think about you often of like, okay, do we need to produce more or do we need to cut more? Like which one are we going to be leveraging? And so when offices are looking at this, and even for us, like I love to have that wish list. Like I love to put it in of

I want to hire this and I want to do this. And like I think, and then when we get to the bottom of it and we're looking at our projected income, it's like, shoot. Now we get to go back through with like full blown

Brittany (06:16)

So she's not very happy.

Kiera (06:18)

razor and just cut and slice and dice. And hey, Britt, I'm just curious, how do you feel about company retreats on that budget line? Just curious how you feel. I know you just talked to an office about this the other day. It feels relevant, but how do you feel about company retreats?

Brittany (06:32)

I think one, build those things in for what you want

Kiera (06:35)

Ha ha ha.

Brittany (06:35)

to do, what you want to plan to do. then plan wisely. Company retreats can get wild. I think we've all heard some stories. We have great teams, but sometimes we put up in an environment and in a condition and things happen and we have to deal with things we don't want to deal with when we're trying to have fun. yeah,

Kiera (06:51)

Yeah.

Brittany (06:53)

that's what I'll say on that topic.

I think that owners, this is a good practice of planning things out to be able to see, if I want to do all these things, right? I love my docs that like want to go and take all the courses and buy all the things and have all the newest stuff, which is great. But what does that mean if we go get all the new stuff and go to all those courses and what do we need to do to be able to actually pay for those things? I also think it's really important for our managers out there.

I think it helps to bring some kind of reality to the situation. think a lot of the times if we don't know facts, we sit there and like, well, why can't we do this? Well, why can't we do that? Well, I really want to give this first than that. And I really want to do this, which we would love to do all of the things. But when it comes down to it, can we actually do it? Can we afford it? Because that's often when they're not involved in that side of it of seeing what the spend is and the reason why we need to set goals where they are. They'll be like, well, why is our goal so high? And I was like, OK.

There's a reason why our goal is so high and no, it's not just because we want our owners to make money. There's a lot of factors involved in that. And yes, we also want our owners to make money.

Kiera (08:00)

Mm-hmm. And Britt, I think that you just highlight something really important is I actually hadn't thought about it till right now when you said it. I do love that you and I work through this because I think there's an accountability side on both of ours. Like we both

Brittany (08:11)

No.

Kiera (08:12)

went and put the budget together. We both said what we thought we needed for the business. We both said,

Brittany (08:15)

I

Kiera (08:16)

hey, we think that this needs to be there. So then when we come back around and we're like, well, nuts. We gotta like figure out this amount. We gotta figure this out. Like I remember, I don't remember what it was this year. There was something you came to me and I was like,

I don't know, Britt. This is the budget. This is what we gotta do. Like, go figure it out. Like, we don't have the extra cash, even though we want to. But I think also I've done it. I remember last year, it wasn't this year, it was last year. I was like, Britt, I want to hire all these people. And you're like, girl, we made the budget. Like, this is what we said we could afford. And I'm like, I know, but I want all these people. And Britt was pretty much like me. And like, hey, well, what are you gonna go? Like, where can you cut, or where can you like this is how much we have agreed to allocate for it? Go go figure those things out. And so

I think it's really important to have doctors and OMs together where both of you guys are aligned. You can both keep each other in check and be looking and projecting forward. I think something that's hard, Britt, and I'm not sure if you've got ideas for offices, hiring people I think is one of the hardest things for me to like budget in because it's what like someone's salary, they might only get hired midway through the year. And I think something we did this year is I hired like three to four months before a lot of these people were projected in.

Well, that absolutely impacted our spend because we were hiring them. We met people, like, we know we want this position, but adding them in three months before they were really necessary or needed, I do think was a big like hit on us. And so I'm just curious, like,

Brittany (09:39)

Thanks.

Kiera (09:39)

how do people plan for when to hire, how to budget that in? Any thoughts you've got? Because I do think personnel is usually one of the biggest changes that a doctor office is going to do.

Brittany (09:49)

Yeah, and I think that it's only those one, those offices that are in a stage or like those like multiple practices that are in a stage where you're going to into some sort of like expansion, right? If not, I'd say on the year is a good time to evaluate if we want to like add a brand new role to a practice without changing any other factors like revenue that they're going to bring in.

And so I think that you've got to plan ahead and look at it in a little bit more detail by like, great, here's what the first six months are going to look like. Here's what the next six months are going to look like and what our expenses will be as you look and you forecast out. I'll say usually with dental practices, if you're looking at adding providers, it's a little easier because usually as long as they're hitting their production they need to hit, it's going to keep my other

my other numbers in line, right? If I hire a hygienist and I can keep them busy and I'm paying him the appropriate percent of their, you know, production, what they're gonna make for me, then like, I'm not really worried about that throwing my profitability way off because it's still gonna keep me in line. Associate is gonna be similar-ish. There's a lot more factors of like, how's it gonna impact owner-doctor production if I'm adding an associate. So we've got a...

Think about that a little bit more, but let's oversimplify it and say, hey, we've got all the patients. We know we can keep that associate busy. Then I know I can hire an appropriate level team to go with them, assistants to help support them, right? They're going to be producers if saying we have the patient base for them, then I'm not as stressed about adding them in. Still should like run it, see what it's going to look like.

Kiera (11:31)

Yeah.

Brittany (11:32)

But if they're a provider and we have the patients in order to keep them busy to where they're going to be producers.

then you can move a little bit more confidently than I'm adding a role that has no production side to it because that means my revenue is gonna stay the same and I'm adding costs.

Kiera (11:49)

Totally. And the only other one that I'd throw in, because of course this is like my role that I pitch to hire, is like a treatment coordinator because they can put quite a bit of dollars on your books for you, close more cases for you. You don't even have to have more patients for you. But I agree with you, those ones are easier versus it being like, We need an office manager or we need this person or I might need to give raises out for everybody. And there have been years where as much as I want to do raises,

We're in a heavy growth year and it is just a like Britt and I lock in and we say, like, all right, this is the budget. This is how much we can have. I do also think it's important to re-look at that budget because if we aren't producing as much as we thought we were, well, we might need to make some of these changes for the second half of the year that we haven't considered. So we'll dig into our like real life. So this year when Britt and I are looking, we're saying, Okay, what are we really budgeting out for next year? We know we're doing these masterminds and Britt can we just like

Brittany (12:38)

Yeah.

Kiera (12:39)

your budget that you had.

isn't gonna work for next year. That was literally the slack I think I got last week of like so we need to up that budget for next year.

Brittany (12:45)

Something to that

effect. We have a lot more people that are coming to those and we keep having more people each time we do them. So we know it's gonna get bigger.

Kiera (12:56)

Which is awesome. And I think it was fun because Britt and I like it forced us to innovate. And kudos to Britt. She went and found a really awesome venue for us. It's going to be able to facilitate the growth that we're wanting. We want these masterminds to be awesome. Our doctors love it. Hey, if you're not a part of it, join us. Like, hey, you want to be a part of it? It's very fun. It's a very fun community. Connect in with us. but I think it's a space of like, okay, we know that that's going to be a budget increase for next year. We know travel will be a budget increase for next year because going up to clients. We also like Britt and I are looking and we're looking at how much our consultants have capacity for.

We are looking to bring on another consultant for next year. So hey, if any of you know a great consultant or anybody who wants to be a consultant, shameless, not shameless plug. Send over any consulting friends you've got. They want to work for Dental A Team. Cause Britt and I, Britt, how fun is it to hire consultants?

Brittany (13:44)

You know, it's a unique set of skills, we'll put it that way. And so they are a level of a needle in a haystack. So we love good ones. So you read with Kiera, you've got the background, you've got the experience, come over to us if you know the business side of dental and want to be a consultant. But yeah, it takes us a while. It's not a quick hire. And I know I'm preaching to the choir to a degree on, for some of you, what it's like to hire even for dental practice right now.

Kiera (14:09)

Agreed. Yeah. So it's one of those spaces of like hiring an associate or hiring a hygienist or hiring other positions. They're tricky. that was literally not a shameless plug. If any of you do want to be a consultant, reach out. Britt and I are actively interviewing. So reach out. [email protected]. Don't worry, doctors, we're not taking any of your office managers. Any office managers who know people in the industry, send them our way. We'd love to work with them. but we're hiring that. We also know we're hiring like we got bigger this year. We added a lot of admin to our team. I mean,

For Britt, her role split into three roles. Like that was a big change and a big shift that we had to make. So when you look at it, and I think for all dentists right now, as you're building out, look to see what do we do this year. Look to see, like Britt said, what are the things that are going to stay the same? And then what are the pieces that you're actually going to need to increase or change out? And then look to see at that bottom dollar amount. Britt, this is always where it like depresses me. And we just get that big number. It's like all the wants and wishes. And then I go back up and it's like, all right, what things do we really have to have? What thing I mean.

Last year it was over analytics. Like we get scrappy and

Brittany (15:09)

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,

Kiera (15:10)

we're like, all right, could we get a better deal? Is there a different software? Is there AI that could replace this? Is there this? Like, I do actually, Britt, to me, you might not like that part as much. As much as I hate that like bottom line number versus what our production is. How do we like innovate to get those numbers to be in a line to where your profit margins are still where they need to be? What are the trade-offs you're going to make? And sometimes your trade-off is that you'll have less profit because it's a growth year. Other times the

Brittany (15:33)

Mm-hmm.

Kiera (15:34)

trade-off is

We're gonna scrap and we're gonna grind and we're gonna just figure it out. And that's the trade-off for this year. But do you have any suggestions for offices of like, okay, what happens when I'm too high over budget and I need to like figure out my production or cut? Like, how do you get those offices to be in alignment so that way they feel like they like next year we can actually afford all the things we need and we're also gonna be able to produce what we need to produce?

Brittany (15:57)

Yeah, this is where Karen and get into some good back and forth on some of these topics.

Kiera (16:02)

That's great. That's why I brought you on today.

Brittany (16:06)

And I think in getting it into alignment, I think there's the necessary things that we need to do. Like those are ones that no matter what, it's necessary and we need it, then we've got to find a way to produce enough and collect enough in order to get those things. That's the way we've got to tackle it. I think on some of the other ones,

I think you can build it in, in a dental practice to be like, all right, well, here's our necessities. But if we hit X number, right, then great, we can do this thing. Or if we hit X number, we can go and we can add this thing to our monthly cost and moving forward. it can be a little bit of a, here's our study that we know we can hit. And great, we've gotten our expenses where this is our like,

comfortable space, but we know we're always going to push ourselves a little bit more. And when we push ourselves, here's our reward. We hit it. We can get X, Y, Z and add those things in because we did better than we thought we did.

Kiera (17:08)

Yeah. No, and Br I agree. It is a good healthy back and forth. And I do think that that comes down to like, okay, we budget this much for team gifts or events or for a retreat. This is where Britt and I are like, All right, we will put it together at this point in time. Like, what are the innovative ways that we could do it? Or hey, if we hit this, like offices all the time say they want to go on these retreats. I know I'm like, We we make a joke because our team is virtual. So then you force people to travel who aren't travelers. It got a little wild for us for a few years. So Britt and I were like,

Screw that. We're not losing any more team members. We're not running any more retreats. Like, we're done. And it's a PL save. But that doesn't mean that like our team loves to get together. So can we do things when we get in person for the masterminds? Like that's where we got creative of like, when do people get together? What could we do that could be fun? I did love the idea. Like, again, no ideas are off limits. Someone's like, well, can't you guys like just do your retreat on Sunday after your masterminds? And I was like, hard no. I'm exhausted. The team's exhausted. We want to.

never see each other for six more months like just pure exhaustion because we put so much energy out for everybody. But I think it's really where you can just go back and forth and it's like, okay, well, if we want to do this type of a retreat, like, is there a way we could get the same outcome on a different budget? Or are there different ways

Brittany (18:20)

Mm-hmm.

Kiera (18:21)

too? And I really do love that Britt and I will come in and it's this back and forth. It's both of us creatively thinking, Britt pushes hard on like, is this really a must or is this like a want? And I appreciate that. But even looking at consulting, like

I think that there's a space, and I think Britt and I are a good example of this, which is why I wanted you guys to hear our genuine true back and forth. Me sometimes I'm going to push, like, no, Britt, we do need to hire this consultant or we do need to have this. This year, I had three great ideas. Of my three great ideas, one was good, two were not so good. Like Britt, I'll hand it to you. The last hire we made that you told me not to do, that I thought was a brilliant idea, didn't pan the way we thought it was going to. And I called it, I've admitted it, it was not a good move.

But I think that there's like my job is to push and innovate and try things that maybe Britt would say, like, I'm not so sure. And Britt's job is to say, like, you might want to think about this before you say it. But there are some times when I'm going to see that, like, no, bringing this person in or bringing this piece in or changing this up, it might not be right. But I will say, like, between the two dynamics of a doctor and an OM, make sure that both of you are pushing your agendas while coming together of what's in the best interest of the business. Those are my thoughts, Britt, but I'm sure you have your perspective of it too.

Brittany (19:31)

Yeah, and we're always going to try things and they're not always going to not everything's going to pan out, especially like technology and all the things going on and all the advancements. Like there's going to be things we try that we're like, hey, this might be a great idea. Think it will work. Let's do it. We do it. We're like, man, maybe that isn't as helpful as we thought it would be. We'll fix that one and we're going to move on. I think those things, if they're not happening, we're probably not trying enough.

If they're happening all the time, then maybe we could vet a little bit better before we jump into some of those things.

Kiera (20:03)

fair. And I think they like I think in dentistry it's a little bit easier. Britt and I are in the wild while the bus over here. Neither of us have ever built a dental consulting company. So you better believe some of my like late night grandiose great ideas, some of them have been kick A. Some of them have been awesome. Others, hmm, that one didn't pan. And I think having the humility on both sides of like that didn't work and always coming back to the table of this is in the best interest of the business.

what's really going to get us to where we need to go. So I think Britt, thank you for coming on and humoring me today. I really want people to hear

Brittany (20:33)

Thank

Kiera (20:34)

like what you and I do back and forth. Hopefully for doctors and OMs, I would say it's time. Like let's go run our numbers for this year. Let's project out through end of year what we think it'll be. And then let's build 2027's budget. Let's look to see what it's going to cost us. Let's look to see what we want to add in, what team members, what softwares, what consulting. Like this is where a lot of times people have also I will say on the consulting end of year, if I know we want to add this in for next year.

And I'm looking at my tax liability this year. Britt

Brittany (20:59)

Mm-hmm.

Kiera (20:59)

knows I am in a heavy hunt of what are the capital expenses? What are the things that I can put in now that are going to benefit us for next year? That's also going to keep our cash flow high. So if you you've got a higher tax bill this year, that's why I like to plan in September. Cause then I've got October, November, December. We have prepaid for event venues. We have prepaid for consulting. We know we're gonna have lots of our clients will pay at the end of the year for consulting. So if you've been considering that, then it's not a cost next year that I have to do. We're getting the benefits of it next year.

But I'm able to get the discount rates. And sometimes also Britt and I will negotiate with people, hey, if we pay in full at the end of year, can we get a discount? Like people are willing to do things because they know business owners need to get these off their books. So I'd really recommend dialing

Brittany (21:38)

Mm-hmm.

Kiera (21:39)

it in, looking to see. I can't pre-pay and hire somebody today. Like I can't do that. But software, consulting, technology, different things that I want to bring into the business. Things like if we know we're going on a trip, like we will pre-book a lot of our flights at the end of the year.

anything that we can do, depending upon the tax liability that we have, it's things that we're gonna do. And everyone's like, you might kick your can down the road. True. And next year might not be as profitable. We knew we were headed into a growth year this year. So we stockpiled last year. We knew this year would be a bit more of a stretch year. That's how I think business owners should look. And it gives you, I'd rather you be doing this today in September or October before the end of the year. So you have time to make those decisions. So those are my final thoughts for any for you.

Brittany (22:19)

And I'll come in with my

like conservative two senses as long as it's something that you know you're going to spend money on anyways. It's kind of like I've got I've got a friend's family that I'm like, it's like the people who are like, well, it's on sale. So I bought it. I'm like, OK, but a good deal on something you don't need is still spending money you don't need. So

Kiera (22:38)

Yeah.

Brittany (22:39)

as long as it's something that you actually need or you are actually going to spend money on anyways, 100 percent agreed. But don't go like.

spend money on stuff you don't actually need to spend money on.

Kiera (22:51)

I do agree. And this is again where you got good, like it's a good balance here.

Brittany (22:54)

Yeah.

Kiera (22:54)

agreed. I'm glad you put that caveat in because all those pieces like software, technology, consulting, we knew we were going to do it anyway. Let's just get it for a better deal because we can. Like we will bundle end

Brittany (23:01)

Mm-hmm. Correct.

Kiera (23:05)

of year. We're is looking at all of our softwares and we were hunting to see, like, hey, if we buy it now, if we do a whole year, things we know we're already going to do, can we get that a reduced price? That's also going to keep our cash flow higher next year, too, for us, which is always a benefit. So

That's our that's our end of year. We're, you know, having a good time with masterminds. They're growing. They're a good time. They're so fun. We're looking for consultants. but I also think, Britt, like, I think Dental A Team is it's a growing company and it's always going to be growing and it's always going to be evolving. And I think both of us have accepted that. Some dental practices aren't. And it's also okay if like your numbers are pretty consistent year over year.

Brittany (23:40)

Mm-hmm.

Kiera (23:41)

That's also okay. But look, you might be looking in like,

What are the raises? Or what are the CE courses we could take our team? Because just because you flatline, if you will, you're not adding more head count, you're not adding more tech, you're not adding more ops. What things can I do to innovate and push my team forward? Or how can I get more increased dollar per patient in the practice?

Brittany (23:57)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kiera (24:01)

Those are the areas to be looking at. So every practice should be like, this is the push, this is the innovation, this is the creation, and then lock in. And Britt, like we got to lock on that budget. Britt does a good job of being like, no, we locked on this, we stay on it.

reconcile it monthly and then reset usually halfway through the year to see how you're doing. Obviously look at it quarterly, but really I don't really try to make big budget changes until about mid year to let it ride for a little bit longer.

Brittany (24:25)

Mm hmm.

Yep, I agree with you. And yeah, offices, your spend may not change a whole lot each year. You should be growing to a degree each year. And yeah, costs are going to go up to a degree each year, but it won't. Some don't swing as far as some others. Now, my my practices out there, my my owners, my true entrepreneurs out there, they're like, yeah, I'm adding a practice next year. I'm doing

Kiera (24:50)

Mm.

Brittany (24:50)

this or I'm doing that. Like, yeah, there's going to be a few more variables in the mix.

Kiera (24:54)

Absolutely. So go guys, go start plupping pranning. If you need help with this, we're literally working on it with our doctors and our offices. It's a great time. reach out [email protected]. Britt, thanks for being here. Thanks for being my like No BS Britt. You always love give it to me straight. You always talk to me. And I respect that so much because I think every good entrepreneur needs a great No BS Britt next to them who will make sure that both are are synced and can really do the best in the business. So thank you for being on the podcast with me today.

Brittany (25:23)

Thanks for having me.

Kiera (25:24)

Of course. And for all of you listening, go get your end of year in place. Go get your numbers dialed in. Reach out if we can help you in any way. And as always, thanks for listening. We'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.

Dentistry is most important when a patient is in the practice. As soon as they leave, there are a million other parts of their life competing for priority. Tiff and Dana discuss how to talk about dental care with your patients so it doesn't get lost under the heap of everything else.

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Transcript:

Tiffanie (00:01)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners. We are back again to podcast with you. To yeah, I loved that Dana. Dana's got some excitement in her veins today. I think it's nice out. Honestly, it's nice out. I had I had to close this window the last podcast. That's what you saw me do. and then I have another window open and I'm in Phoenix. We don't open our windows often, and I've only got like probably thirty minutes left of this window being open.

DAT-Dana (00:27)

Right.

Tiffanie (00:29)

but it's energizing. I feel like

I just need the fresh air and and it's just beautiful out. So I can imagine Dana where you are if it's this beautiful here and then Brodie's in he's forty five minutes south. So he's in Tempe and he sent a picture and it was more beautiful and I'm like, gosh, go another hour and a half past that towards Dana. It's gotta be just gorgeous down there right now.

DAT-Dana (00:51)

It is. I feel like though Phoenix can just be gorgeous and be gorgeous. Further south, and there's an as you know, Tiff, because you kind of grew up in this area.

Tiffanie (00:58)

Mm-hmm.

DAT-Dana (01:00)

if it is sunny and beautiful, then typically it's paired with wind, right? So I feel like my windows are never

Tiffanie (01:04)

This is

DAT-Dana (01:06)

open because even when in the temperature is beautiful enough to have them open, the wind is going and I don't want all

Tiffanie (01:12)

yeah.

DAT-Dana (01:13)

the desert dust you know, sitting in my living room. So

Tiffanie (01:17)

I love

what you just said. I love it. So Brodie texted me a picture and I said, Gosh, that's prettier than here. I said, This is this weather is the only thing I miss about living in Sierra Vista. And what you just said, people say, Why did you move? Like the weather was the weather is better in Sierra Vista. It literally is. The temperatures

DAT-Dana (01:33)

Yeah. Yes.

Tiffanie (01:35)

are better. You get a better winter, you get better seasonality. Like it is just better. And people say, Well, why did you move? And I say, Because of the wind. I legitimately

90% moved because I couldn't you just can't be in it. It whips your hair, like it hurts my hair hitting my face as a child. I remember the pain of that and the tangles and brushing my hair out at the end of the day because I had to walk home from the bus. Like legitimately, Dana, the wind. I can't handle Southern Arizona winds. Yeah. Yeah.

DAT-Dana (02:12)

Yep, yep, you

hit it. You hit it right on.

Tiffanie (02:15)

Spent

my I spent my whole childhood there. I lived in Sierra Vista till I was what, twenty? I think I moved up here when I was twenty. I can't I can't do it. So yeah, I love that you said that. And everyone listening, you just got a nice little taste of the Arizona weather history there. It's never changed. It's still windy. So if you want wind, go down south. If you want really cool honestly, it's it's beautiful down there. So if you haven't visited Southern Arizona, meaning

Like Phoenix is cool too. Obviously Sedona. But if you haven't been south of Phoenix, Tucson has some really cool stuff. But then you get into like Saurita, where you are, and Senoida, there's like wine country, there's Tombstone, Isbe. Like there's a lot to do down there. And I discredit it and disvalue it 'cause I grew up in it. but it is really beautiful. And

on to dental. Yeah. Yeah.

DAT-Dana (03:08)

Yeah, but my windows just stay closed. So I can look at

the beauty. I just Yep. Right. Yeah.

Tiffanie (03:13)

My windows stay closed because it's too hot. So in Arizona we just don't open windows. Okay.

It's just stifling in our house all the time. It's fine. So on that note, dental. Dana, we get fed podcast topics. and then you and I, I love that you and I are just like, nah, we're not gonna do that one today. I don't I didn't like the other one. So today we we already talked about kind of

Prepping for changes and and systems that work in the midst of change. That was a a podcast we just recorded. So if you haven't heard that one, go back, find it after this one. You don't need it beforehand. But they kinda go I think they kinda go hand in hand because one change that we oftentimes don't prep for because we don't know it's coming, is accepted treatment still like falling off of a schedule. And I think that happens a lot. I have a lot of practices that are like,

It's full until the day before or two days before or gosh my hygiene schedule's full six months. I can't get ab get anybody in. But then the week of it's falling apart. So we're not here to talk about hygiene. There's plenty of those podcasts. Go search it. But we are going to talk about why accepted treatment still falls off of the schedule. And Dana, right before we started this podcast, you said something and I was like, Yep, another drop mic drop moment from Dana. She'll always give them to us.

I would love for you to repeat what you said right before we got on this podcast because I think that it's true and I think that's where we start.

DAT-Dana (04:38)

Yeah. I I am known for my brutal honesty tips. So what I

Tiffanie (04:42)

Ha ha

DAT-Dana (04:44)

said before we got on is like treatment that falls up after the fact is typically for the same reasons that we hear patients give us that they don't schedule to begin with.

Tiffanie (04:53)

Yes, yes. And I got excited about that because I believe that oftentimes we work so hard in like the sales side of dentistry that or not that we work so hard on the sales side of dentistry to get a yes that they're just like, okay, yes, fine, I'll schedule it. Like, well, what about this hurdle? What about this hurdle? And yes, I wanna work objections and I wanna I wanna get over hurdles.

But I think Dana, in what you said, you said the same, they they fall off the schedule for the same reason that people don't schedule. And I wonder if not every time, but if sometimes those patients who are falling off weren't actually a yes, they were a let me out of this office right now, right? Because I I've taken a lot of

Communication courses, a lot of relationship style courses. I've done a lot of emotional intelligence and just like communication stuff. And something that is tried and true in every aspect of anything that I've done extracurricularly is the relationship comes first. And

Knowing

the person, knowing the why, knowing the reason, and speaking to that and overcoming, helping someone overcome an issue or a problem and seeing better on the other side is the most important factor. And oftentimes in our objections and our conversations of our hurdles, I wonder if that aspect of the communication gets missed because it's more about checking check boxes.

than it is about investing in the person. And maybe I'm being wild, but when you said that, that's where my brain went and I was like, gosh, it's the relationships. Dana, what are you what's your perspective? What are you seeing on your side?

DAT-Dana (06:47)

Yeah, I 100% agree with you. And I feel like when because we hear it all the time when we go into park, well, it falls out because life happens, right? Well, you're right.

Tiffanie (06:55)

Yeah.

DAT-Dana (06:56)

Life is going to happen. and typically we will also kind of say that like dentistry is most important when the patient is in the office. So then when life happens, right, it becomes less and less important. And I think that you're absolutely right. And to me, it tells me that like

I actually didn't really listen and get to the bottom of what actually was holding the patient back or what their no actually was. And so yes, I got a yes, which great, but I didn't actually get a yes that meant I'm fully committed, I fully understand, I'm fully ready to go. and so then that's kind of why we see it fall off. And I feel like

The biggest thing is life is going to happen for your patients when they leave the practice. So if they don't know where, when, how to prioritize the dentistry that you are talking about with them in life happening, then we didn't get it right.

Right, because life is gonna happen and I need to know that if my dog chews 35 Legos, like she's been doing every week and has to have an emergency vet visit, right? That

Tiffanie (08:00)

Yep.

DAT-Dana (08:01)

like I know where my dentistry needs to fall in the spectrum of the things of my dog eating 35 Legos, right? Do I need

Tiffanie (08:08)

Yeah.

DAT-Dana (08:08)

that crown or does the dog need to so life happens, absolutely.

Tiffanie (08:12)

Yeah.

DAT-Dana (08:13)

But I think our biggest tool is

treatment coordinators or people that talk about treatment or even the dentists, right? Tre doing the treatment planning in the back is they need to know where to prioritize the dental work that needs done with the life things that are going to happen. And I think when we just get that artificial yes, that didn't happen.

Because they

Tiffanie (08:34)

Yeah.

DAT-Dana (08:34)

left and something came up in their life, or they left and were just like, I do it all the time. I go to Target, I put all these things in my cart, and as I'm walking up to the thing, I'm like, I don't really need that. Or

Tiffanie (08:44)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

DAT-Dana (08:46)

you know what? I don't, I don't really need my lips moisturized. That chapstick can go. Right. And so

Tiffanie (08:50)

Yep. Yep.

DAT-Dana (08:51)

those things start to happen. And if you think about doing that and you think about, okay, well, how

What would make someone take the dentistry out of their cart, right, and stick it back on the shelf? It's probably because we didn't get to the bottom of what is important to them. We didn't build that relationship with them. We didn't understand who they were and how they make their decisions. And we didn't get through to them where to prioritize this decision and all the other decisions they're going to make the second they leave the office.

Tiffanie (09:21)

Absolutely agree. Absolutely agree. And that's not something that I think people innately know how to do, especially in the workplace, because in my opinion, we think of work as transactional, right? You go it work, the word work is transactional, right? You do something for something. you work out at the gym to get stronger, right? To get healthier. You do something for something. So it's always transactional.

And transactional doesn't always translate to the emotional side of it. And we miss that mark. And in in dentistry, dentistry is weird, right? Because d medical, like med they don't have to think about this very often, right? One, they've got a million people walking through the door all day. They don't it's a rare occasion that someone's really concerned if you're coming back or not. So if you have a provider like that, please by all means share it on all the platforms because we all need one.

In dentistry, one, it's that's not how it happens. We don't have a million people coming through the doors. And two, we actually literally are more invested in the people that are coming to our practices. Dentists in general sought out dentistry for a different reason than many medical professionals at least are practicing now, right? I think that they probably had a good reason to get into it, but throughout the years something shifted and changed for for many people. My point of that.

is that we discredit that emotional side of it and we become more transactional where it's like, okay, the next step in the in the flow is schedule. And so we're like, okay, great. I reviewed the estimate. You've got that estimate. No questions. Great. Let's schedule. Right. And then they're like, I'll call you. And we're like, well, what difference is let me get you on the schedule now. So that I would hate for you to forget. Let me put you on the schedule now. We'll block out the time. And then if if there's you get to work and there's a work

Event in the way, give me a call. Right? I've done that a million times. Like, no, no. Now I'm supposed to say, Well, let's get it on the schedule, because now it's on the schedule, it's accepted. Right? But then that patient is like laxadaisy about the appointment or what have you. Because I didn't I didn't ask what's holding you back. Like, great, tell me more about this. Tell me when I would sit patients down for a treatment plan, I've I've done this for a long time. And in the same practice I had

the

awesome opportunity of testing out a million things over the almost 13 years I was at this practice and I've watched myself evolve. I can look back now and see like how I evolved from the transactional to the they sit down in front of me and I'm like, hey, they said you need a crown. Wha how what do you think about that? And sometimes patients were like they would just cry. They're like, I don't even I don't have anything like this. Or sometimes patients are like, I knew it was coming or can't they just pull it?

Like now I'm in a conversation and now I can learn more about the patient, their thought process, their priorities, right? Like can't you just pull it? Well, tell me why that's where you jump. From a crown to a pull, for me, that's a massive, that's a massive jump. Let me tell you why. And then you tell me why you took that leap. What's the priority there for you so that I can understand more? But instead we're so transactional, we're like, no, that would be wild. You need a crown.

And it's gonna be this much. And we stick to that transactional checklist instead of being like, Well, let me be curious, like what makes you wanna just pull out the tooth? Because to me, in dentistry, you blew my mind with that statement. So tell me why you want to pull that tooth out. But we don't always think to ask those questions. So Dana, like this is all very Kiera would be like, Yes, Tiff, this is great, but like what's the track like what's the action item, right? So like

This is all great. How do we train? And I know you and I both work on this with practices, but how do we train a treatment coordinator or a doctor, right? A dentist diagnosing can do these things too. So what

DAT-Dana (13:30)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (13:30)

are some like tips that you give practices to say, hey, get more relational and less transactional without saying those words?

DAT-Dana (13:38)

Yeah. I

I think one, it is just just like you said, it's kind of shifting your mindset. I always teach teams at the end of the day, we want the yes, right? But we want a yes that is good for both of you, right? Like you as a treatment coordinator and them as the patient. And just getting a yes, like you said, is super transactional. So to me, how I train teams is we have to just ask more questions. We have to ask what's holding them back. We have to ask.

what would a budget be that they're comfortable with? We have to ask like if they feel like third party financing is an option for them. We have to ask if they even want to save the tooth. We have

Tiffanie (14:14)

Yeah.

DAT-Dana (14:14)

to just ask more questions. And I feel like

It's again, I like gonna highlight the podcast we did before. Please go find it. It was a good one, but like it comes down to communication and it comes down to just asking more questions because every question that you ask is going to break down a barrier in some way. And it might present a new one that we have to work through, but it's getting treatment coordinators to understand that your job is to partner with the patient and figure out a way. There is

always away. And I like I say this all the time. There's no financial barrier that you like really can't truly overcome. You can break down treatment, you can break down payments, you can pay ahead of time and then add third party. You can like there are you have to get super creative sometimes, absolutely. But you have to really feel in your bones that it is so important for this patient to have done what is needed to be done and you have to be willing to ask whatever question it takes.

to get to the point where you can both feel really good about a yes. Not just you, because you got the yes. You both have to feel really good about the yes.

Tiffanie (15:23)

I totally agree. Yeah, that was beautiful. And then get some pre-collect.

DAT-Dana (15:28)

Yes.

Tiffanie (15:29)

I the money mindset is far overlooked. there's a statement I wanted to remember to say. One of the things that I learned in all of the training that I've done is to be more interested than interesting. And I think about that all the time because human nature is to talk about ourselves, right? Or to be right or to have the the

most information and in dentistry, especially my treatment coordinators, my office managers, my billing reps. Like we I think sometimes feel like we have something to prove, right? That we're we do know what we're talking about because there isn't a formal you don't get to go to school to be a treatment coordinator and you come out with a certificate or a degree in treatment planning. Like you just don't we learn it on the job. We learn it by going to CE. We learn it because we hired a consultant, the Dental A Team and they were wonderful. Like

We learn these things through doing it. And so I think sometimes we wanna make sure that people know what we know what we're doing. So we can get a little transactional in it and a little dry. So making sure that we're being more interested, meaning to Dana's point, like asking more questions. Be be in the why, be in the why is it that way? What do you feel about that? Tell me more, right? So the one aspect. And then the the

like hurdle of the collecting in advance or something you've already paid for, right? Everybody, it's all over Instagram. You guys just look up like girl math, right? But this is one majority of your patients are probably female. I'm just gonna point that out there. Okay. So girl math works. Two, I don't think it's just women who think this way 99.9% of the time, right? Money out, money spent is already gone. You're likely not going to have someone call you and it it does happen. I'm not gonna say it won't.

It does happen, especially for large sums, but it is going to be very rare that someone calls and says, Hey, my dog ate 35 Legos yesterday and I need that $600 that I put towards that crown back so I can take him to the vet. They're gonna find another way to pay for the vet bill because they've already paid the $600 or whatever towards the treatment that they're getting done at your practice. So whether they're paying full in advance, they're paying partial, having some skin in the game.

And

having committed financially locks it in place. And it is a psychological proven skill that works every single time. Money is already gone. We've already accounted for that money to be gone. We've already formulated a plan to get it back. And we're we've moved forward. So Dana, do you I do you still this is a real question? Do you still find that you

Have pushback from teams to collect in advance. I feel like for me, it's like less and less over time. It's 2026 now, and the time of recording this, I can tell you five years ago it was much different than it is today. What are you seeing? you see more new clients than I do. I don't, I don't

DAT-Dana (18:38)

Do

Tiffanie (18:38)

take on new clients, so you're gonna have a better pool to choose from. Are you still seeing pushback from teams when it comes to pre collecting?

DAT-Dana (18:48)

Feel like I do still see some because it's an uncomfortable space. It's a new space. And I think anytime we're putting people in a new space, you do get a little bit of resistance, but it is nowhere near what I used to get because honestly and truly Tiff, teams are exhausted in trying to

Tiffanie (19:03)

Yeah.

DAT-Dana (19:03)

build and rebuild and refill and backfill and replace what they've already replaced in their schedule. And and I think that.

For so long, like yes, cancellation policies are great. Yes, all those pieces we wanna have them in place, but I think

Pre-collecting, I think, works wonders in that area. And I think that team members are willing to do things or try things like just to keep their schedule solid. So

I agree with you. I think that more and more team members are open to it. More and more team members also just understand, like I think sometimes just put your patient hat on and yeah, I'm probably not gonna miss an appointment that I've already paid for. And so I do feel like

A lot of my calls are around like just schedule changes and then the process of that. And then, you know, we're trying to chase down patients because they're working the same hours we're working and and all of that. And I think teams are exhausted from trying to fill and backfill their schedule. And so I do think that like pre-collecting in those pieces, because again, it's like a yes that you can be super confident is a yes.

Like I

Tiffanie (20:17)

Yeah.

DAT-Dana (20:18)

said before, I yes, it feels good for both of you. I think when it's yes and there's a financial commitment that feels really good for me because I know that patient is invested, is going to come. And that's probably not a spot unless there's a super rare thing that pops up that I'm gonna have to then do that extra behind the scenes work to fill. And so I

Tiffanie (20:39)

Yeah.

DAT-Dana (20:40)

agree with you. I think teams are a little bit more open to it. I think teams are a little bit

more willing to kind of see the benefits of it because honestly and truly schedule changes I think are still just a really big highlight in a practice. And anything that's going to lighten that load, I think is massive for teams.

Tiffanie (21:02)

I

completely agree. Thank you. I hope that the dentists who are listening today heard that. The office managers who are listening. Because I I think, Dana, from what I've seen, I agree with you. I think teams are exhausted and they're like, I'll do it, I'll try it. Right. And I think we have to we're so used to paying for things these days before we get it. It used to be like, Well, I can't get like I don't get my stuff from Target. Like I walk out and I pay for it at the same time. But now

It's an Amazon Prime culture. We're paying for things before it ever ships to our door. And I'm gonna tell you right now, there are times that that thing never even comes. Right? It never gets here. And I'm like, it's lost in someone's trunk and they're sending me a new one. massage therapists, right? I booked a massage for a surprise massage for Aaron a couple months ago. I had to pay online, I had to pay on the app to before I could schedule the appointment for him. So I'm like, well, he's he better freaking go because I already paid for it.

concert tickets, there's nothing there's not a lot right now that we pay for that we're not paying before we get the thing. And we're paying pretty far in advance for something. So it's that culture, that mindset has shifted. But I think that business owners, it's it's personal. Right? They're paying for your treatment, for your business, for you to provide them with something. So it's more personal. And I say this because to

To everything that Dana said, I want you to take that to heart because I think it's more often a dentist and a business owner that says, my team's not going to like that, than the team saying no, we won't do that. And so I want you to give them the chance, the shot, the opportunity to make their lives easier and get the actual yes. Because in my opinion, case acceptance is scheduled and paid for. Treatment that is scheduled and paid for.

Is accepted, right? And I don't hold that, I don't, that's not my like standard bar for everyone. You guys get to decide what that looks like, but to Dana's point, scheduled and paid for is less likely to fall off the schedule. So if that's where you can set your bar, you're gonna have a more full schedule. So I love that, Dana. So I would say one, I loved your ask more questions, so B

Be invested in the person, be interested in who they are and why they're making decisions the way that they do. And I think Dana, something you said was how are they making the decisions? Like how, what is their priority in the decision making? If you can get to that point in just asking more questions and being interested in them, you're gonna get your yes. And then I would say if you don't do some sort of prepayments, if your schedule is falling apart, even if it's not, I think it's smart. But if you're someone who's here because that title said

accept a treatment is still falling off your schedule, put in those pre-collects. At least collect a portion, I would say 50% to 60% down holds the appointment. Dana, thank you so much. I knew this one would go I knew it would go well. We didn't super prep for it. And I feel like the ones that we don't super prep for are the ones where our minds really start getting on a a good track. So Dana, thank you for your time today. Thank you for your nuggets as always. And

On behalf of everyone, Dana, thank you for your brutal honesty. Always a pleasure. Thank you. It's

DAT-Dana (24:25)

Anytime

Tiffanie (24:27)

always accepted. I love brutal honesty. and with that, that is a wrap for today's podcast. You guys go re-listen. There were some gems in here. Like Dana, thank you so much. You you dropped some massive gems, and business owners, try it, just try it out, see if it works, see how it works, see how you can manipulate it to work best for you guys. If you guys need help with it, [email protected].

Also TheDentalATeam.com, you can sign up for a live like video call session with our team, and they'll help you figure out the gaps and figure out a way to fill those gaps. And so [email protected] and TheDentalATeam.com as always. Thank you for listening. Drop us a five-star review below. We love to hear from you. And we'll catch you next time.