Dental A Team Podcast

Your key performance indicators do not have to be intimidating. In fact, with the correct frame of mind, they tell you exactly what's going on in your practice! Kiera shares the smart way to utilize KPIs, including:

1. Looking for patterns, not just numbers

2. Finding the question in each KPI

3. Understanding KPIs are team-wide, not just for the owner

Episode resources:

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Transcript:

Kiera (00:01)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners, this is Kiera, and I hope you're excited because I'm gonna talk to you about KPIs and whether you're excited about it or not, you're gonna listen to KPIs because KPIs are the vital of your practice and your KPIs are really telling you a lot more, just like your vitals on your body are probably telling you a lot more than you think they are. I have been getting and falling in love with weight training, and I had a client shout out to her. She was like, Kiera, you need a new passion to become obsessed with, and I think weight training could be there.

But with my history, I was anorexic for a lot of my life. And thankfully that part of my life I think is like done and over. And I love food. And so with weight training, my coach was like, you've got to track in and you gotta weigh in. So it's weighing in every day, doing your measurements, and then doing macros. And for a girl who is terrified of that, because a skill for me and eating food, like a lot of food.

was like no goes for a lot of years in my life. And what I found though is she was like, Kiera, you're just tracking these because they're telling you information like the food you ate yesterday, or are you like coming up on your menstrual cycle where you're bloated and you're holding more water? it's been fascinating. And I've been tracking for almost a year now. So like huge win. Thank you. Thank you. I'm sure you're all cheering for me. and if you're not, I appreciate the cheers. but what I realized is like,

It's just data and it's telling me information. And I re bring that up because I believe that this was what our KPIs are too. The KPIs are just data to tell us if something's working, if it's not working. I'm obsessed with tracking my metrics. Like there was a while that I was weight training and I wouldn't track what my weight was. And I never was getting stronger because like it's like, I think I was at like 10 pounds last time, versus hey, last time you were at 10 pounds, we're gonna start you at 10 on your warm-up and we're going up to 12. And now I have a really like strict UR trainer.

Who watches my metrics, watches the pieces, and then adjusts accordingly. I am up to PRs that I've never been hitting, but it was because I actually use the data, not just track the data, to make better decisions. And that's what your KPIs are. So I just want you to know that like look at your KPIs to look for the right messages because we're only looking to see if we won or lost most of the time with KPIs. But using these to diagnose problems before they become expensive to me is where your KPIs really start to become impactful. Similar to like, wait.

Right. Like we're trying to add and bulk up my calories. Like I came in at a lower calorie, no shock to anybody. but for us, it's like, okay, well, for me also, how do I know I can add this much food in? Like, guys, so much protein. If you have protein tips, please email me. Be a protein buddy out there. I am so tired of eating cottage cheese, chicken, fair life shakes, cottage cheese. Like my main thing was like cottage cheese, wheat checks, gr raspberries, and peanut butter.

I have eaten Built Bars, like you name it, protein powder. I shout out to Ballerina Farms. That's my favorite one. I've made an Orange Julius with vanilla protein powder. Like you guys, to get that much protein has been so hard. But I also know if I don't get enough protein and I'm lifting, I'm not gonna get my the the gains and the strength that I'm actually going for. And this is to make Kiera, 95-year-old Kiera, to be freaking ripped. I wanna be like running and beating your 20-year-old son or daughter. Like that's what I want to be doing. So

But if I'm not looking at this, I'm not diagnosing these problems. So like we're adding more food food, but like we got to watch to make sure the measurements aren't changing and we're not adding it too quickly or not. So it's this whole piece. Same thing with your KPI. So I hope that analogy was there. I hope that, and hey, if you want to talk to me about like protein or weight training, hi, I would love to talk to you because I was like rookie girl who didn't even know how to lift going into it, wasn't like a bodybuilding competition. There's really, I don't know how to explain it.

But there was this incredible photographer from Spain who does physique photo shoots. And that was like a goal I worked towards. And to be able to have that to weigh in, to do a bulk and a cut, to just like be able to turn my body into this incredible machine and see how I can fuel her. Hey, if you want to talk about that, like hey, maybe that's another podcast of like, but happy to chat with anybody and just know, like, it's really incredible. Also, exhaust the body, tame the mind. Shout out to Dan Martell.

It really has also made me a more powerful CEO and to navigate some of the hardest times in the business because I've been able to have that mental strength and support by working out. So total tangent, but like let's get back into KPIs because KPIs really truly are so helpful for you. It's the first thing that's going to work with you. We have a KPI dashboard for all of our clients. We use the analytics with all of our clients because this will tell you before there's truly a problem. And we can watch trends instead of being like, it was an off month or I feel this way. No more, I feels. It's either I'm gaining.

My weight, like and it's muscle, and I'm building muscle, or I'm just eating nonsense over here. Like it's been really fascinating. So I want you to know this, and we're gonna talk to you guys about like what your KPIs are really trying to tell you. So, as I mentioned, step one is looking for patterns, not just numbers. So, usually like we have a book of business trend for all of our consultants. So we're watching certain KPIs on every single practice, all hundreds of clients that we have, we're watching it.

And we look at kind of like a three-month trail. So I want to see how are these clients doing? How are they doing compared to last year? Because that's going to tell us the whole story. Looking at it just monthly isn't really going to tell you a lot. Just like me tracking my metrics every single day. Well, it's not really going to tell me a lot. But looking at it over the course of time, I'm going to be able to see, okay, when my like as a female, when girls go on their period, guess what? They actually increase their weight because our hormones shift. So then I'm going to be able to start to see. I can actually start to tell without even looking at a calendar.

Which men, I don't know. My husband's like, how do you just not know these dates, Kiera? And I'm like, listen, and all the ladies are giggling, I don't freaking know when this thing's gonna come. It's not like an alarm clock on the 30th of the month that shows up, gentlemen. Okay. So for a female for us to be able to track because of our metrics going up, I'm able to tell when my period's coming much better than I used to be able to predict it because I'm actually watching and trailing that. But I've been tracking it for multiple months. So now I can see the pattern of what's going to happen. So with that.

A lot of men are also giggling, like, well, Kiera, I could tell you beyond just weight. It's probably your mood shifts. Hey, we women are emotional creatures, and I'm okay with that. All right. I hope you guys just enjoyed my like rant between men and women. And I hope you guys all got a good giggle because I did. But back to KPIs, I'm getting tangenty on you all. A single month's not really going to tell us the whole picture. We've got to look at this of like, cause you can have high production, low production. I look in January. It's really embarrassing when I'm showing a new client like an example of a book of business and showing them like,

How this client's trending. January always usually has a low collection. And I know that because December is usually a lower month, which usually means my January is a lower collection. It happens almost on every single practice. So you go down the line, all those buckets for us of every client usually is red on their collection compared to their production. Usually they're producing X amount, they're collecting, but their December is usually two weeks, sometimes three if we're lucky. But that tends to happen. So if I'm saying, like, my gosh, those collections are down.

Well, no, I need to look over this. Or if we're panicking because we have a slow week, everything's down. No, but we need to figure out like how we can actually predict this, how we can measure it. So what I like to do, and this is what our practices are doing, we're looking over several months. So usually like a quarter. Also, I'm gonna look annually because sometimes it's cyclical. Anybody have a September or an ominous October or a dead December? You're welcome. because it's either a September or an ominous October.

And some of my practices just have a genuine dead December. Like my practice in Hawaii, they must aloha over there. It is dead, dead, dead December. So we have to plan and prepare for that because I know it's just gonna be dead. So we're gonna look at this and we're gonna look at the trends over several months. We're also gonna look at cyclical, what's happening annually, or even like month over month, what's going on and what are kind of the trends. We're gonna compare our KPIs against the goal. So, what should this be at? Where are we at? And then we're gonna look for consistent movement. So

When I'm working with a practice, I'm not gonna say, all right, hygienist, we need to get our perio up to 30%. Let's look and see where they've been for the last couple of months and then let's increase it by a couple of percentage points. I'm not going from like I got a practice right now that's an eight percent perio. Woo! We gotta talk about some bloody profies over there. It's okay. I'm not stressed about it, but we do need to change that. We set a goal this quarter to get them up to 15%. And you might be like, Kiera, they gotta be to 30%. Yes, but me going from eight to thirty is psychotic.

You gotta go eight to 10 to 15, and we gotta be moving those KPIs in the right direction. Just like somebody losing weight, we're not gonna be like, all right, you need to lose 50 pounds in two weeks. Like psychotic. Don't do that. Let's make these realistic so people actually get the momentum and want to grow. So when we're watching this, look at hygiene reappointment, look at our case acceptance, but not in an individual week. Look at it over a month and like if I notice there are certain weeks, what was going on? Or if I was down, let's go dig into it and find out why. Was it just an isolated incident?

Did we not have enough hygiene? Did we have a lot of openings? Find out why this KPI is telling you this rather than it just being a well, that's annoying. Look at it as an early warning sign rather than a complete and total drop. This is going to help you predict future better off of today's numbers. So, like, what's our future gonna be? Like, use our numbers. Let's better predict. Let's look back at trends. It's going to help you. Patterns are going to tell you the story. Numbers are where we're going to start to like look into conversations. So

Looking for patterns, looking for true numbers. How's this going to go? So I would recommend a quick call to action today is go look at the last six months of KPI. So we're talking production, collections, overhead, profit. we wanna look at our case acceptance, we look at our new patients, we look at our AR, we don't look at our hygiene. Those are just some off the top. There's several others you can dig into. Like you can look at your schedule capacity, you can look at your answer call rate, we can look at our marketing, we can look at our new patients, but like look at our general ones that are gonna move the practice. And what are the last six months?

And identify a trend that's moving in the wrong direction. Okay. And identify a trend that's moving in the right direction. We don't just want to use this as bad information, like there's good information too. So what's happening there? Go identify that. But again, not just looking at one week, because one week, one month can isolate and it actually won't work. We've got an awesome office and we've grown them so much this year. They've added over 100,000 per month to their practice, and we're talking this as a very large practice. But I love their office manager because she's like, hey, last year we had this.

This is what we've got going on. We need to predict and project for this because we're going to be running into these issues. That is using your freaking KPIs. And that's what I would like all of you to get to. Okay, number two, every KPI should lead to a question. So one, we're looking at patterns. Two, these are going to actually ask questions. So we're asking why. Like I said, so collections are down. End of discussion. Instead, like, why are collections down? Did K and like you've got to think of it as like a trigger tree down. Like, I don't know.

Don't know what it's called. Like it's like it's like a family tree almost. Okay. So it's like a decision-making matrix. Here we go. So if our collections are down, what are the pieces that make up collections? Well, we've got insurance claims. We also have case acceptance. We have production. We have AR. Like those are going to be pieces that are going to impact. I know for a while all the insurance is like all of our collections were down across the board because one of the insurance companies were holding it up. Well, guess what? That's why our collections are down. But we don't just like

Say collections are down, go collect more. Let's find out what the root of this problem is to see, like, what is our collection? How do we get this back up? There was one office where the collection percentage is sitting at 58%. Well, they're not putting fee schedules in. That's why their collections don't look right. So, what is the reason for it? We gotta make, we gotta be curious. We also need to dig into the root problem, and then we gotta solve the problem, not just the symptoms. So, for that one when insurance was just holding up, not really a lot I could do with an asterisk. There actually was.

We could then start to do like let's call our patients that are fee for service patients, bring them in. Let's call in patients and fill our schedule with patients who are not on that insurance so we can boost up our collections. Like you might say, like, it's out of my control, but if you actually use this and look at it and get creative, any KPI, you can drive that number and improve that. So I really, really, really, really want you guys to ask like why five times before creating a solution. Okay. So pick a KPI and ask why and why and why and why and why.

And then create a solution. Like, so why is this? Why? Like, what about this? Like, what about this? Like, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig. I sound like Snow White. Dig, dig, dig, dig, dig. You're welcome. because this is going to actually help you guys figure out what is going on. And this is why consultants were so great. Because we ask the why. We dig to find out. All right, production's down. Why? Like literally every consultant knows when I'm looking at it. I want to know why. If a client's saying X, Y, or Z, I want to know why.

Tell me what's going on. What are we noticing? What are the pen patterns? And not just for this month, but what's been happening for the prior three months to it? Let's figure out why. So that way we can predict and change moving forward and actually fix the problem. If you're like collections are down, great, we're just gonna fix our over the over the counter collections. Well, if we're collecting fine there, we just solved a problem we didn't actually have. It could be insurance, it could be that we're not billing out, it could be that we're getting denials left and right on things. Why? Like what's getting denied?

Go dig there. So I really want you guys to one, you're gonna look back six months. That's number one, let's look for pattern. Number two, I want you to pick a KPI that's down any of them and start asking why multiple times before we create the solution so you can truly get to the root of it. And then number three is like KPIs should be for the entire team accountability. It is not just for owners. And I know this is very controversial. A lot of you come on calls with us to see if you want to work with us, and I'm like, cool.

We never roll out KPIs fully to the full team until you're ready for it. I do not believe that I should force a practice to look at numbers if an owner doctor is not comfortable with that. What I do believe though is owner doctors, let's share at least a couple of KPIs because if everybody knows their number, it's like a scoreboard on the ball. Like, can you imagine teams like basketball, football? We're going to football season. So maybe that's the one you want to talk about. Can you imagine if they didn't have a scoreboard and every person up there didn't have a metric? Like, no, they're all talking about their passing, they're running yards, they're how many games they've won.

That's what we need. Our teams need to know like what is their number that's gonna push us forward to the championship. So every single team member should know their number and they should be tracking it. I have so many office managers that are just awesome. They're rocking it. But what they don't do is they don't have their team track their KPIs. So then their hygiene's down, but no one knows it other than the OM. And then they're trying to convince that hygienist to do their period. Versus if I'm a hygienist and I know my goal is 30% and I'm noticing I'm at 10%, 11%, 12%, what we track and measure improves.

So this is going to really help your team. Like give each team member a number. And I know this sounds so silly, but like they don't even have to know the whole production. We just have to know like this is the number that you own. A scheduler. They've got to have their goal to goal every day. Like 90% of the days, I want us hitting goal. Treatment coordinator, non negotiable. Doctors have to be at goal every day, and they have got to hit our production goals every single month. Non negotiable. That's what they do. Billing, you should never have more than one month's worth of AR in there. Period. That's what they need to do. Non negotiable. Non-negotiable. Okay. Office manager, you got to hold.

Hold your overhead. That is your number one KPI plus everyone else getting their KPIs. Hygienus, three times your pay. That's what it is. Okay? That's your number. And that's on net, not gross. Next thing below that is gonna be pay you at 30%. That's your number. That's your metric. That's what you're gonna have. Dental assistants, you're my trickiest ones. Dental assistants, you need to be adding one same day or not being a popcorn assistant or getting referrals. Like you choose what their number is. But every single person owns it. Billers, less than one month's worth of AR and 98% collections. Everybody needs to know. Doctors, I need you producing what.

Like you need to diagnose three times what you want to produce. And if you're at five hundred dollars an hour, I want you to be at five fifty. You need to know what your dollar per hour is. And we need to make sure we're tracking this. I need you also diagnosing enough that we can close it. Treatment coordinators, what's your case acceptance? Like, but notice I didn't stay like I need you at thirty-five percent or I need you at fifty-five percent or ninety percent. No, treatment coordinator, I need you to get the doctor to go every day and to hit our production goal.

Very different, and a lot of us will be Well, you should get case acceptance. Well, guess what? They hit your case acceptance goal and not hit the actual outcome you want. So make sure the KPIs are directed to the outcome you want, not necessarily just a metric. So, and when everybody's owning their number, everybody owns the outcome, and we all are rowing to that championship score. So I would recommend at least rolling that. I don't care if they know anything else, but at least roll that out. So to quickly put this together, remember KPIs are the vital. We're gonna look at this before there's a problem. So number one, look for patterns. Number two,

Ask better questions, get to the why. And number three, create ownership and give everyone a KPI number. If this feels hard for you, or you're like, I know I should do it, Kiera. I just talked to a doctor who joined us. He's like, I know I need to do this, but I need some hand holding. If you're like that doctor, join us. He just reached out, he's got a consultant now. He's gonna have his whole life change and I can't wait. Office manager has no clue how to do this or implement this. Or maybe you do know how to do it, you guys are just not executing on it. Reach out. [email protected]. I want to help you. So let's do this because KPI should not feel overwhelming.

For me, I needed a coach sitting next to me to be able to start tracking my metrics, tracking my weight, tracking my gains, tracking my macros. It was really freaking hard for me. And it took me two years to get to where I am. I first started out of like, let's just get to the gym three times a week. Then let's start looking at how much I'm lifting. Then let's go into tracking macros of just protein. Then let's go into tracking the whole kit caboodle of weight and metrics every single day. That was a process that did not turn overnight.

Otherwise, it would have been too hard. And so for you, let's just start small. It's like, and we as consultants set this up for you. You don't even have to do it on your own. So just start. I need you watching your numbers. I need that you to use those as metrics. And not for me, but for you. Because the more you know about your KPIs, the more you're gonna be able to make better decisions. You're gonna feel more confident and you're gonna be able to feel like you actually know your practice rather than being concerned about your practice all the time. So reach out if we can help you, because the right numbers can truly become your greatest leadership tools.

It doesn't have to be scary, but it can actually help grow your practice and have easier conversations. So reach out. I'd love to help [email protected]. And as always, thanks for listening. And I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.

Guest episode! Kiera is joined by Paul Edwards, CEO and co-founder of CEDR HR Solutions, which provides human resource support especially for dental practices. They go through a rapid fire of topics, such as coaching and accountability, worker classification, documentation and evidence (including AI!), and reporting policies.

Visit CEDRSolutions.com to learn more about Paul.

Episode resources:

Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast

Schedule a Practice Assessment

Leave us a review

Transcript:

Kiera (00:00)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera and today is a great day. I love my episodes with Paul. Paul is incredible. He is the owner and founder of CEDR. And guess what? He is somebody that I get to just pick his brain about all things HR every time he comes on the podcast. So, Paul, welcome to the show today. How are you?

His Paulness (00:19)

very good and I'm gonna take that introduction, that part where you said Paul is incredible. I'm gonna turn it into my ringtone and I'm gonna be insufferable for the rest of the year with that.

Kiera (00:25)

Yeah.

His Paulness (00:27)

So thank you for that.

Kiera (00:29)

You're welcome. I it's funny because every time people meet you and they know you're an HR, they're like, he's actually really funny and he's a good time. And he used to play in a band. And I'm like, yeah, he makes HR not feel as scary. But every time, every time I leave, everyone's like, my gosh, he scared me to death, which is good. Like I think it's a good healthy, like you're super approachable, super nice, but also like whip us into shape of like do this, don't do that. And I appreciate you continually like guiding us along the right path.

His Paulness (00:55)

There's

a lot of moving parts when you're an employer. So it all feels a little bit scary. 'Cause soon as you get figure one thing out, then there's the next thing. You're like, no, I'm doing that wrong or or I could do it better or whatever. So yeah, you know, we try

Kiera (01:07)

Yeah.

His Paulness (01:08)

to break this down so it's understandable.

Kiera (01:11)

Which and I appreciate. And if you guys are not subscribed to his newsletter, he's got the best newsletter out there. Like I think you guys do an incredible job. So, Paul, if they're not, how do they get connected to your guys' newsletter? 'Cause that's one of my favorite things about you guys.

His Paulness (01:21)

Well, I think what you want to do is just go to the website and search for almost any form on there, but there are education forms on the website. So just go to the website and join what we kind of refer to as HR Base Camp. So if you think about base camp as a place you come back to when you're on a big hike, well, you're on a big hike as an employer. And so we are constantly sending out helpful stuff, you know, two or three times a month. We send out some pretty cool stuff to all of our base campers.

That'll get you also an email that invites you to join the Facebook group, which is kinda cool 'cause you're in there with just managers and owners. and you know, it's about ten, I don't know, nine thousand people in there, something like that. So, yeah, that's the way to go there. you know, you can also subscribe to my podcast, which is what the hell just happened and we cover a lot of topics there that that are kinda fun, you know. So

Kiera (02:12)

I love it. Okay. I want to just get that right in at the beginning because you guys truly he's got the best newsletter, got an incredible podcast, and I think this is the stuff that keeps business owners up at night. So let's like not have that happen anymore. So, Paul, we're gonna just like rapid fire. There's

His Paulness (02:27)

Okay.

Kiera (02:27)

a few topics, and then I know you've got some case studies for us as well. So, and if you guys don't know Paul, CEDR, they are one of the top dental HR companies out there. most of our clients use them. He is one of our

I do not bring a lot of people in to speak to our private groups. And Paul is one of the people that I have hand selected to come in and speak to all of our dentists in a very intimate that's not on the podcast. So it's like no recording, it doesn't get shared. He comes in and speaks to them. So, Paul, I'm excited for today. This is stuff that we'll talk publicly, but let's talk about some of these items. Coaching and accountability. I'm sure we're all doing it wrong. I'm sure I've been coaching and telling people to do this. So tell us what we can and can't do when it comes to coaching and accountability.

His Paulness (03:08)

you know, the thing about coaching accountability is that it starts to feel like it starts to feel like something that's punitive, like consequences. And and when it goes into that realm, it's really hard to get somebody to listen. I I I don't know about you, but when someone starts to tell me what I'm doing wrong and that's what the focus is, I get defensive. And that's just human nature. So when we t when we talk about coaching and accountability, especially with Dennis, and I know that you're gonna I think you're gonna agree with me.

I while there are exceptions to the rule, and probably many of them, overwhelmingly I find that dentists do not want to have difficult conversations with their employees. They kind of avoid it. That I mean it's it's about 50% of the reason they get office managers because they're like, I want to have these conversations. I can get someone else can do it. Here's the thing that

Kiera (03:55)

Yeah.

His Paulness (03:56)

I want to say. Yes, sometimes it ends up where you have to have a really serious conversation with someone. but the

Better way to go about this is for you or you and your manager when you hire someone is to set the expectation with the employee, I mean literally during onboarding, that they are going to receive feedback from you, both positive and sometimes it might feel a little negative, because you're making small corrections. So if you get in the practice of making small corrections as you go forward, you don't you you have far fewer of those big conversations with someone.

And then the the ones that are frustrating, I mean the issues that you're facing with an employee, also become easier because when we're looking at someone who's late all the time, and you know, in a practice with you know, we ha always have just the right amount of employees. We never have a I don't know about you, but I never have an excessive amount of employees around, where everybody's important, you just start leaving no quarter for being late all the time.

you really have to say something about look when you're even when you're only five minutes late in the morning and you tell them what the issue is, you tell them what the impact is, you explain their role in a very positive way so that you can say, Look, when you are late, we are missing you. Not you need to be here on time because when you're on time, bad things happen. And if you don't start being on time, bad

Kiera (05:19)

Mm-hmm.

His Paulness (05:20)

things are gonna happen to you. If you start with trying to enroll them in the idea that they're playing an important role.

you know, part of the reason I think for goal setting is that you get to say, how are we going to get to the goal if this behavior continues? So I just want to give everybody this reminder that coaching is coaching and it doesn't always have to be corrective and it needs to you if you set an expectation and then you execute on it, you're gonna get a lot better outcomes with people when you bring them on board. And and the other the other end of coaching should always be.

Can you do that? And do you need anything else from me? Like is is is the issue here me? Do we need to give you more training? What can we do to help you get there? So don't forget where that's appropriate, you'll always want to insert that in.

Kiera (06:08)

I think Paul on that just like piggyback, what do you do when you've had that conversation like four times? Like, Perry, we've had this, we've had this, we've had this, like, I miss you at Morning Huddle. We need to be at what

His Paulness (06:20)

I missed you.

Kiera (06:21)

point, at what point is it not like cute? It's like the I feel like it's the child that keeps throwing the rock and mom's like, Okay, let's not throw the rock, like it's gonna break a window. When

His Paulness (06:28)

Yep. Stop it. Stop it. Stop it. Yeah.

Kiera (06:31)

do I actually like do something about it?

His Paulness (06:34)

As my mom would say, when do we get to snatch a knot in him? That's what I I was just with my mom. She's eighty eight years

Kiera (06:37)

Ha ha ha.

His Paulness (06:39)

old right now. I she actually said, Son, don't make me snatch a knot in you. 'Cause I like to take her out in public, embarrass her now, and pick on her. but anyway,

Kiera (06:46)

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

His Paulness (06:51)

look first things first, great question. I I would do wanna say that after you've had the same repetitive convert conversation with someone

After the second or third time, especially if it's in close proximity in time, you know, you've already talked to them two weeks ago about something and they're doing it again or not doing it. you also want to make sure that you're making little notes in their file. That's very important. and what I found is is that if you don't hold someone to the standard, right? The standard that you're looking for, I I you're they're never going to improve.

And if they're not improving, then maybe they're not the right fit for your company. And the sooner that you figure that out for them and for you, the better. And so if I'm in my third or fourth time within a month about the same thing, I'm sitting down and having a much more serious conversation with them. And in my mind, I'm I'm thinking, and sometimes I might say this to them, look, I'm not telling you that you've got to do the thing, whatever it is that we're talking about. What I'm telling you is I cannot work with someone who

does or doesn't do what it is that they're that they're up to. Like, you know, I just need you to know that I, you know, I can't continue to work with you if it's going to be this way. I understand you're late. I understand that you have all these issues. I get all that. I've tried everything I can to adjust here, but I I may not be able to work with you. And you always have that standard. I need you to show up on time. There's no more there's no more getting around this. But you really need to be adding notes to their file.

dating them, you need that, and and then we can move into written corrective coaching if we need to. And you know, that's a little more formal.

Kiera (08:35)

Awesome.

His Paulness (08:36)

That's them acknowledging the conversation. And look, four times in a month for the same thing, they're gonna get something in writing. That's just how it's gonna happen. If if I'm if I'm on your

Kiera (08:44)

Okay.

His Paulness (08:45)

HR team, that's what's gonna happen.

Kiera (08:47)

Okay, great. That's what I feel like so many people just like it needs to go on forever and ever. And I'm like, there's gotta be an end date to it. So,

all right, that was a quick teaser on coaching and accountability. Okay,

His Paulness (08:53)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Kiera (08:58)

next one worker classification. I know that's a a hot topic with dentists. They love they love this 1099. I don't want to pay taxes on them, Paul. It's a better deal for me. They're

His Paulness (09:07)

Yeah. It

Kiera (09:09)

a dentist. I don't need to have them as an associate on payroll.

His Paulness (09:12)

Right.

Kiera (09:13)

This person's just coming in to help out. I can ten ninety-nine them.

His Paulness (09:14)

They're only going to be here for a day. They want to be paid

as a as a independent contractor. so there's a couple levels of classification. And by the way, this is one of the good reasons to go sign up for our education because we're gonna do we're gonna release a really good classification guide. And you know what? you know, we're probably gonna make it exclusively available to your folks as well, just so you know. So at some point we'll pass it over to you.

look, classification, couple things. I'm not gonna put you to sleep

Kiera (09:42)

Thank you.

His Paulness (09:45)

on it because you do you actually need to kind of go through a checklist and do some stuff on your own. And we'll provide all of that. you gotta think of classification as a couple of things. First of all, there's that independent contractor conversation that we that we're always having. And for those of you who haven't heard me, I'm just gonna say this in a very definitive way. There is no hygienist on the face of the earth who qualifies either under the Department of Labor or under the IRS rules for employees.

as a as an independent contractor. It does not exist. It

Kiera (10:14)

Nope.

His Paulness (10:14)

can exist. It just can't. An independent contractor cannot open his or her own practice. They have to have a dentist attached. And that's kind of the nail in the coffin, but there's a lot more. All right. When it comes to

Kiera (10:25)

Yeah.

His Paulness (10:27)

when it comes to associate doctors, in some states that same thing is true. I'm serious. They the state has such strict rules

That for you to classify a general dentist and a general dental practice as a independent contractor is just wrong. It doesn't meet the Department of Labor's standards in that state. But for the most part across the country, a a a employee who's doing the main function of your business, who's performing the main function of your business, a a worker, I should have said a worker, they're an employee, not an independent contractor. So that's one part of the

Kiera (11:02)

Mm-hmm.

His Paulness (11:03)

classification.

The other part of the classification com conversation has to do with whether or not I can pay an employee a fixed salary and not worry about any overtime they work, or whether or not I have to track

Kiera (11:14)

Mm-hmm.

His Paulness (11:14)

their hours and pay them. And I'm just gonna say this. If your entire team is on salary, that's okay, but you still have to track their hours and you have to pay them overtime. You can have a manager who who you don't have to track their hours and you can pay them a fixed salary.

But not all managers qualify for that exemption. It's called an exemption to the standard to pay overtime. Not all managers qualify for that. The smaller your team is, the more in danger you are of not being able to classify someone as a salaried employee. So now that you're really confused, just

Kiera (11:51)

Mm-hmm.

His Paulness (11:51)

go join. You're gonna get this is the kind of information and the guides and stuff that we send out.

So the the you know, the classification's a big deal 'cause we run into it every day. I mean,

wh

Kiera (12:02)

Yeah.

His Paulness (12:02)

when I say run into it, we get about twelve thousand questions out of our three thousand members and every week there are four or five what we call submissions asking us about you know, they've read one of the one of our articles and they're like, I think I got this wrong. And most of the time they've gotten it wrong. and you can't rely well,

Kiera (12:21)

Yeah.

His Paulness (12:22)

you you it you gotta be careful because

Kiera (12:24)

It's true.

His Paulness (12:25)

The IRS rules for your independent contractor and the Department of Labor rules don't match up all the time. And so you have to be

Kiera (12:31)

Correct.

His Paulness (12:31)

very careful in that area.

Kiera (12:34)

Yeah, and Paul, I'm so glad you talked about it because like it is a while it is a full checklist. And I think sometimes we like to justify it. Sometimes we like to say like, but no, like they really do. And that's not gonna go over well. And so to I'm like, cross our T's, dot our I's, which is why Paul, we do podcasts like this and why everybody should have that checklist. Because when I learned about this, I'm like, No, they're a salaried employee. It's like you gotta you gotta check off this checklist and this checklist, and they're not like you said, they're not the exact same checklist at all.

His Paulness (13:02)

It it's a little complicated,

Kiera (13:02)

And you had to make sure both qualify for them to truly be

His Paulness (13:04)

but once you figure it out, you'll have all your positions and you'll know and and you'll be set. It's just that you guys and gals tend to borrow what someone else is doing.

Kiera (13:13)

Mm-hmm.

His Paulness (13:14)

Maybe it was already in the practice that you purchased, or it was in the practice that you were an associate of, so you're c you know you're copying, which is what we all do when we start a business, or you're talking to your you're talking to, you know, other other people in your industry and they're giving you HR guidance that

Is not sound sometimes.

Kiera (13:33)

Yeah. No, I love that. And definitely sign up for that checklist. That's a brilliant one. Okay, next one. Documentation and evidence. Let's talk

about that.

His Paulness (13:42)

we are going to be we are going to be actually doing some podcast on this where the internet does HR is what we're gonna call it.

Kiera (13:56)

Mm.

His Paulness (13:56)

I just want you guys to know that online HR advice is not something that you really want to participate in. well look let me let me

Kiera (14:08)

we're talking like AI, internet searches. Let's just talk about it.

His Paulness (14:11)

We're talking about AI,

we're talking about going on Reddit, we're talking about we're talking about going into any kind of group thing for for advice and running with that. But particularly AI is a con a concern and we'll get into this a little bit more. I think every time you see me I talk about AI. Well we now have court we

Kiera (14:31)

You do,

His Paulness (14:32)

have court cases rocking it right now and and companies are getting themselves in trouble for creating employee handbooks through AI.

they're getting themselves

Kiera (14:39)

Mm-hmm.

His Paulness (14:40)

in trouble for using AI to fire people. they're finding out that your chat is discoverable. and so in one case we watched the chat was really bad. The the thought process of the person who was putting the problem into the chat became exposed in court and they were basically asking it how can I break the law? I might I'm paraphrasing, but they were basically like I they were kind of telegraphing, I know what I want to do here is wrong.

HR wise, tell me how I can get away with it. And so just be

Kiera (15:11)

no.

His Paulness (15:12)

careful about online advice and taking something from someone without knowing who those people are. it's you know, the context here is you're making an HR decision that is has a law that impacts it. And if you get it wrong, it can be very, very expensive. And there's no reason for it. There's no reason to go out that way and try and self-help.

yourself. So just be very careful. you know, same thing. Same thing about the internet. I'll make this other point, maybe a little bit about AI. You know how if you're a subject matter expert and you see AI give an answer to the thing that you're an expert on, you will look

Kiera (15:55)

Mm-hmm.

His Paulness (15:56)

at it and you'll go, you what, that's pretty darn good and it's getting better. But here's these three or four little subtle places where it's not exactly wrong, but it's not correct.

And without context, I I would be worried about just telling someone that. Versus you're asking it a question about something that you really don't have a whole lot of subject matter expertise in it. And it gives you back that wonderful, confident, same kind of answer. It's got bullet list. it's actually, if it's your AI, it's designed to please you. So it's put a little bit of stuff in there to please you. And you'll just take that hook, line, and sinker and say, this looks so well organized

Kiera (16:30)

Yeah.

His Paulness (16:31)

and so authoritative.

And it look, it cited some things too, and you'll run with it, and that's what's getting people in trouble. So we just really I don't know what the word is for that. Maybe I need to make it up. but you just can't you

Kiera (16:43)

Mm-hmm.

His Paulness (16:44)

if you don't have subject matter expertise, you gotta be very careful when it involves employment law and your pocketbook. I think that's the

Kiera (16:52)

I think that I think it's so hard because like AI we use for so many things and like you said, it is like a little therapist over there and people

His Paulness (16:56)

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Kiera (16:59)

enjoy it. I mean, I'm guilty of it too. I heard you talk about this six months ago and I was like, It feels annoying, Paul. Cause I'm like, I just wanna ask like what are kind of the parameters and I I

His Paulness (17:07)

And I want the answer. Yeah.

Kiera (17:09)

think of you all the time and you're like, Kiera, it's gonna come back on you and like they can pull these records on you and it's like, okay, noted. I need to just go to the proper sources and channels to make sure that we're compliant truly.

His Paulness (17:21)

Yeah,

yeah. I mean my AI is incredibly smart about HR and it still gives wrong answers occasionally when we're writing articles and stuff. So I mean, kinda gives you some perspective. Yeah.

Kiera (17:31)

So there you have it.

Do you think there will ever come a point that AI can replace HR? Not to say I want to put you out of business. I'm just genuinely

His Paulness (17:37)

No, no, no.

Kiera (17:38)

curious of like, I think about for consulting too. Like, do you think that AI will like there will be HR AI in the future?

His Paulness (17:44)

I think at

some point it's gonna you're gonna have some very strong models that are mostly available to lawyers. They're not available

Kiera (17:51)

Mm.

His Paulness (17:52)

to someone like you, you know, l someone who's not giving out guidance, because I believe that the context of the guidance alwa almost always has one or two more questions, and AI is not great at taking a left or a right hand turn. But five

Kiera (18:09)

Sure.

His Paulness (18:09)

years from now, six years, ten years from now.

I think, yeah, in some pla in some ways it's gonna be able to give some very good answers and prompts to get those answers. And we are as a company, we are very aware of that. We are

Kiera (18:23)

Mm-hmm.

His Paulness (18:24)

we are well, I I think the I've said this twenty years ago when we started CEDR. And I think this, you know, for the people listening, the business you're in, I think this might h head home a little bit. I believe that the next I believed then that the next greatest innovation

was the opposite of what was going on in the world, which was it's providing service and people and getting it getting systems right and being able to actually talk to someone instead of running them into these failed chat bots and these failed chats that you you know you put your question in, it's like, let me give you your question. And then it, you know, it it answers with one third of a cup of flour. And you're like, we were talking about my internet not working. I mean

Kiera (19:08)

Mm-hmm.

His Paulness (19:09)

So I think the greatest

in I think the I still think that that that innovation is there and available for us and we've been using the technology in the wrong direction. I'm using it to make us more efficient, to so that my experts can spend less time creating something from a conversation that is kind of a policy or a th or a thing, and so they can spend more time listening and and a little more time with the member.

And and worrying less about I have six other people who are waiting for me to get back to during that day. So that's my view

Kiera (19:45)

Sure.

His Paulness (19:46)

that's my view on AI and HR. humans are humans. As long as we're being human, I I don't think we're gonna be able to take the human out of that out of that process. Yeah.

Kiera (19:55)

I agree.

I agree. Okay. Next reporting policies. Let's talk about these.

His Paulness (20:04)

the the reporting policies that people okay a policy only works if it's distributed and it and it is more it becomes more powerful when the policy is distributed, it's acknowledged, and the and the employer and manager know how to use that policy. All of those things have context. So look, let's let's use AI as an example.

We used to say this about template handbooks. Some would say, Well, I got a template and I put it together and I said, Well ask the template how to and ask the qu ask the template any question. Templates can't answer questions. And so if you end up with a a policy and you don't know what you haven't had training and what its purpose is, what its limits are, what it's both both, you know, small and large, what it's how you're supposed to use it and where it's supposed to apply, then you're kind of missing

that. And so I just want to be clear that when you put together a set of policies and when you change them or you have an employee handbook, if it doesn't come with a couple hours of support and training and ongoing training, then what you have is kind of a static thing sitting there in your office and it's not really helping you when it in the ways that it can help you. and I give you guys an example.

If you don't have a good maternity policy and it's not complete, then when an employee s asks you a question about your maternity policy, you can't say, go to the handbook and tell me. You go read it. You tell me how much time that we give for for maternity leave. You tell me whether or not you can use your vacation time that you've accrued. you tell me whether it's paid or unpaid. You tell you know, all those things.

should be in the employee handbook. So it's important for owners to train their managers. It's very, very important for owners to train their managers. make sure

Kiera (22:03)

I love that.

His Paulness (22:04)

they understand and make sure you understand the policy.

Kiera (22:08)

Yeah. And I think Paul, you're right. Like, as companies evolve, like where you started at the beginning versus where you might be today. Like we didn't have people that were getting pregnant when I first started now. It's like we do. And so definitely I'm big on like make sure that they're updated, make sure that they're current, make sure that everybody has them. That the new ones that have changed and morphed through the business, like we've been in business for 10 years. Like what we started with versus where we are today are very different. And I like that.

call out that you really do need to know that. So

His Paulness (22:40)

Yeah, I I

I mean I could give you a really good example. Arizona changed about I don't know, about seven, eight years ago. We went to mandatory sick time. And all employees were entitled to it under a specific set of rules. Before then it was like it was in much of the other states, not all the states, 'cause many states have mandatory sick time now. it it was you just could give it, you could make it paid, you could make it unpaid, you could not offer it at all, you could do whatever you want to.

Once that changed, a new a complete new set of rules came around. and I just give you an example, and I think managers in Arizona need to know that this exists. In Arizona, if you fire an employee within I think it's sixty days of them having used it's sixty, yeah, within sixty days of them having used one of those sick days, it is presumed to be retaliation against them for using one of those sick days.

And so you've got to be thinking, well, h what? Wait, what? Does that mean you can't fire anybody because they can use sick days? No, the answer to w what you know, what you do about w what I just described is that you have to have documentation showing the reason why you terminated a person or took that adverse action against them. So basically we went from being in an at will state to sort of being an at will state because we've got this sick lead policy.

Kiera (24:00)

Mm-hmm.

His Paulness (24:01)

So I I again I was kind of a roundabout way.

but but it kinda shows you you need to understand the policy and the limitations that come the laws that affect that policy.

Kiera (24:12)

How often do you recommend looking at your policies like and updating? Because those rules come into effect. Paul, you read this. Like to me, this is your algorithm. You're seeing this all the time.

His Paulness (24:22)

Yeah, yeah.

Kiera (24:22)

for us, it's like a one and done, check it off the list. We think we're compliant. How often do you recommend updating your policies, double checking your state laws, having your handbook updated? What are what are your recommendations

for that?

His Paulness (24:32)

I think at

at least once a year and if you're in s California, Connecticut, New Jersey, Washington State, some of those states, you have to visit it more often. and I think that's the problem if you don't have a support company because how would you visit it? Like where is it that it's certainly not get f get f you know, fed to you on TikTok or Facebook or something. So, you know, at least once a near a a year you should if you have time

You should read your policy to see if you're following it. And I don't mean your policy should tell you what to do. I mean you may have changed something and it conflicts within your handbook now, and you just need to change the policy. That's it. That's that's that's all there is. so yeah, once a year you should check. Most states are now updating and putting in new laws about once a year. Many states are putting in new laws and making them effective two or three times a year.

Kiera (25:26)

Awesome.

Okay. All right. Let's go into payroll. Payroll I feel like is such a thing. Payroll, payroll review. I've got some questions on payroll, but what are some of like the hot things that practices deal with in the payroll realm?

His Paulness (25:39)

this has come up two or three times in the last three or four months. I don't know why. the employer is not reviewing their their payroll ledger. meaning they run payroll, you always get a report. If you're in gusto, you dig for it or ADP, maybe you can find it. I don't know. maybe it y y you know, somehow you find your you you you get this report every single time, but you don't pay attention to it.

And or you do give it a quick look and you go, yep, all their hours are right. But what you don't do is you don't review your payroll thoroughly. And what we're finding is is we've had these three instances where an employee has been paid anywhere from five to eight dollars more an hour than they were supposed to be paid. And it's been going on

Kiera (26:28)

Well.

His Paulness (26:29)

for years. And so tens of thousands of dollars in payment and salaries have been made.

And in all three of these instances, none of it was recoverable. In one state,

Kiera (26:43)

Mm.

His Paulness (26:43)

it was just not recoverable. You couldn't do it. The state would not allow you to recover it. In the other two instances, the there was no way they were gonna get this money back from this employee. They were not working for them anymore. they were gonna have to sue them and and there were problems with that. It was not gonna be a a a slam dunk home run to try to get the money back out of somebody.

So I think one of the biggest one things that we're just telling everybody right now is you need your own oversight. If you're doing your own payroll, your payroll company's not doing anything, they're not watching anything. They'll let you misclassify a hygienist. They'll let you pay somebody a salary that they're not supposed to be paid by salary. your payroll company is not reviewing your final ledger because how would they? They don't know. You they they just take what you put in. That's how they work.

And so I I just want you guys to be very careful and review your payroll every now and then. And then the other one that we've seen I've seen over the years, and it's more than once or twice, the the reason the payroll was wrong was because the person in charge of the payroll made it wrong for themselves. And then the other reason why the payroll was wrong and in in the most egregious cases was that they were so they were using it as embezzle as an embezzlement mechanism.

and they had actually put people in their family on the payroll that didn't work for the practice. and that ran for two years before they got caught stealing another way and then the full audit re revealed that they had put their family members on there. So I I

Kiera (28:22)

my gosh.

His Paulness (28:23)

think the the the moral of the story is check your darn payrolls. Yeah.

Kiera (28:28)

Paul, that is something ten years in I still am the final stamp off on payroll and I feel silly doing it, but I like a lot of those things happen and I catch it and like as an office manager I didn't I didn't I mean I just put in the hours and as a business owner I have very different keen eyes on that. So it's the isn't

His Paulness (28:44)

Yeah. Yeah you do.

Kiera (28:48)

I have two other questions on payroll that I didn't prep you for. One

His Paulness (28:50)

Sure, sure.

Kiera (28:52)

is how can you change like let's say we've got variable comp.

That's bonuses. Like I've got an office right now, they recognize the bonus structure is very, very high. It is variable comp and they're trying to figure out how do we like change that bonus system. Do you have to have like are there any laws? I obviously know it might be state specific. This one happens to be in Arizona. but like what can you do for that variable comp commission states, like pieces like that when you recognize we're we're paying more than we're supposed to, and I need to right size that and I don't want to fire an employee, but also I gotta deal with changing their comp.

His Paulness (29:20)

Yep. Yeah. I gotta deal with

changing the car. Okay, first of all, really difficult conversation. Good luck, y'all. but but let's let's talk

Kiera (29:29)

Seriously.

His Paulness (29:30)

about the rules around it. yeah, I mean this is let me sidetrack for a second. You may have to put me back on the question. This is why you when you promote someone to a manager's position, they don't get an immediate raise. they need to earn their way into it. Now it needs to happen quickly and it could be, you know, by steps over the next weeks and months.

But it's really hard if someone's unsuccessful and you've moved your best employee in and now you realize they're you've kind of peter principled them. They're not competent as a manager, you need to move them back down. Y the hard part would be to take the pay away from them. So so going back to your question, some states require you to provide notice in a certain amount of time before you make any pay adjustments. So you want to know if that's true or not. Arizona does not. You cannot make it retroactive in any case. so

If you're going to change someone's compensation, you need to change it and you know going forward. if it's a commission or it's a bonus program, I want you to keep those things outside of the employee handbook, but I want you to refer to those things. So I know you didn't ask me this. I want conditions in the handbook about how someone qualifies for the bonus program should a bonus program exist. For example, one of the things that's in our policy of many things, which, you know, one of the reasons you work with us.

is in order for you to earn the bonus, you must be employed for the entirety of the bonus period. Meaning that if they quit or get fired in the middle of the bonus period, they're not entitled to a portion of what's going on or what happened. So to be more direct, I I think you've gotta you really gotta work this out. I think this is a good place for AI, by the way. I don't say this very much on podcasts. I think

Kiera (31:14)

Mm-hmm.

His Paulness (31:14)

you I think you put what your bonus system is and what's going on and what your problem is in it.

And where you need it to go, and you help it, you you know, work with your consultant and you figure out where that pay needs to adjust. And sometimes you're adjusting the base rate of pay. and sometimes, by the way, everybody who's on a bonus or commissions needs to have a base rate of pay. or or you're, you know, you're you're moving some, you're moving something. My way of moving something is we're not hitting the goals that justify that commission or that bonus. And

In order to get back to it, here's the new numbers that we have to hit. And until

then I need to adjust this back and you you make your adjustments. are you talking about massive adjustments or yeah.

Kiera (32:03)

This

one is like so it's like an office manager who came inherited to a practice and has a bonus structure in place like on collections. Well, back in the day it was great, but now payroll is at 42% of total overhead.

His Paulness (32:16)

That's all hot.

Kiera (32:18)

is a little high. And so recognizing the base pay is great. the additional compensation does not justify, like it's just part of their job. It's not an above and beyond. And so needing to remove that bonus structure.

until maybe we hit a higher tier of the company and it's to right size that payroll portion.

His Paulness (32:35)

Yep. Yeah,

I think that I would just kill the bonus system in that in that case. And if it's across the if it's across the board, I'd kill it. Or I would adjust it back significantly and so that they still have the feeling that they can earn a little bit more on the bonus system and I would set goals for them to get up. I think in your case, I don't know what you would could get a manager to do to to right side a forty two percent cost labor

Kiera (33:02)

Yeah.

His Paulness (33:03)

in a dental practice.

what can I ask you what percentage you think it's supposed to be?

Kiera (33:08)

So what we typically say, like a lot of consulting companies are twenty-five percent, I tend to err on thirty percent. So it's twenty-five to thirty percent tends to be where I sit. I recognize California offices sometimes are a little bit higher than that.

His Paulness (33:20)

Hello, mm-hmm.

Kiera (33:22)

but that tends to be about what we'd recommend for a percentage.

His Paulness (33:23)

I'm I I'm with you. We

you know, we we've got several hundred close to a thousand people on payroll. So we and and and they're using our our software for their HR systems. I you're you're you're in about the the pocket right there. We see as high as thirty six percent, and as as low as twenty two percent. That twenty two percent practice is tiny and highly profit profitable.

Kiera (33:47)

Mm-hmm.

His Paulness (33:48)

That's a very specialized dentist with about four employees.

Kiera (33:52)

Mm-hmm.

His Paulness (33:52)

So yeah,

same place. I just was curious. I just, you know, love to

Kiera (33:55)

Yeah, no.

It's a great one. And then one other question on payroll, because I have a lot of dentists who get burned by that third payroll, right? So it comes in the month and they're like, ugh. So some dentists, and I did this early on, so I have no idea how people can do it. I know what I did and I'm not about to share because it might not have been correct. but we move to only two payrolls in a month. So I do it on the fifth and the twentieth. And I know some dentists are thinking about that, wanting to are there any rules around how to do that? Are you allowed to do two payrolls a month? Like, because then I'm not getting hit with the cash flow hits of the third payroll.

periodically, just some thoughts of offices are wanting to do that, are the right ways to go about it.

His Paulness (34:28)

Absolutely. Absolutely.

You need to check your again, you gotta check your state rules. There's fewer states that have these rules but you need to check your state rules. There's this pay frequency. By the time they finish their payroll period and they close the payroll, there's a certain number of days when they have to be given a check. In none of those

Kiera (34:47)

Mm-hmm.

His Paulness (34:48)

instances does it prevent you from going to two payrolls a month, th that that I can recall. It's if it is, it's it's very

It's one maybe one state, where you might have to add one or two payrolls to the year in order to meet the law. It's not every month. It's just to the year.

Kiera (35:09)

Interesting.

His Paulness (35:10)

Yeah.

Kiera (35:11)

Okay. Yeah, 'cause I know when we did it, I just I was like, We're gonna change it and they told us to float employees if they needed it. I let them know when it was coming so they could financially prepare for it and yeah.

His Paulness (35:20)

Yep. Give everybody thirty days and you will have met your states

most states' requirements too that say if you're gonna change to this model, that's what you gotta do. Yeah.

Kiera (35:30)

Awesome. Okay. Well, Paul, I've like we peppered you on so many questions. I know you had a couple of case studies you wanted to bring and I'm excited to like hear. I I do enjoy a good case study that freaks me out and I I feel like it's like forensic files with you. Like bum bum bum bum. Like let's hear the case studies now.

His Paulness (35:46)

I think I'm gonna start with a f positive one and then I'm I'll ruin y'all's days with the other one. here's the here's

Kiera (35:52)

Ha ha

His Paulness (35:52)

here's the positive one. And we have been saying this for years and we're the ones that started implementing it with our clients. It's not that we invented it, it's that not enough importance was put on it. And when we started in two thousand six, everybody was making up their own employee handbook or they were going to ADP and they were getting handbooks that didn't have anything about HIPAA in them.

And they didn't have anything about maternity leave. I mean, literally, payroll companies were telling employers, you don't have to give you're not required by law, so we don't put it in the handbook. And and we're like, so offices with seven women in them who

Kiera (36:23)

Yeah.

His Paulness (36:24)

are all going to get pregnant at some point in their career, you don't have a policy for what to guide them through. Anywho, the policy that we are very big on and we use it throughout the handbook in the c in the proper places.

is a requirement to report a problem. So it's very simple. If you re if you have a problem and it could be with payroll, it could be around harassment and and you got to define that. It could be around many other things. You have to report it to us. Here's how to report it. If you're not confident who manages you, here's a way to tell somebody else about it. If you put those reporting procedures in place and someone doesn't follow it, they get fired.

And they come back six months later to sue you over the problem that they never told you about, then the the judge is supposed to say, Hey, when did you tell them about this? When when when did this happen? And so we see it happen a lot in depositions, which never make a court case, so you don't see it publicly, where the lawyers got someone in deposition, they'll just say, okay, cool. so you said this was happening for the whole year, and you had four one on ones with your manager.

and when when did you report it to your manager and and and or or or an email to somebody, you know, that that kind of thing. Well, we recently saw a case come up, it was errors versus chemjet. I I don't know what in the world chemjet does. chemjet argued,

Kiera (37:54)

Mm-hmm.

His Paulness (37:55)

hey, we this case should not go forward. We want summary judgment, we want out, because this employee never told us about this problem. They never said a word to us. And the judge said to the and the judge granted it to him. They just said, you know,

It they're right. You had an opportunity to report this. You're back here. You have a multiple complaints, but you were you did sign the employee handbook, you did acknowledge it, they did distribute it to you, and you gave them no chance to cure this. Had you given them a c a chance to cure it, there's a reasonable expectation that they could have done something about it. Without knowing about it, nothing they could do. So again, when you self-make your handbook and you miss that opportunity,

Kiera (38:31)

No, she's not.

His Paulness (38:32)

you get, you know, you may not get the best result.

Kiera (38:36)

I think Paul, something I've learned and when I started a business, I was like, okay, I can be cheap on certain things. I can be cheap on gauze, I can be cheap on gloves, I can be cheap on what I pay for dinners, like staff gifts. Like I can be cheap those areas. The thing not to be cheap on is have my employee handbook and my policies like cross our T's, dot our I's pay there to prevent much harder future decisions.

His Paulness (39:02)

Well, you're speaking my love language right now. There are just a few places

where you just don't want to be cheap. You don't want to be cheap with your CPA. You wanna you want consultants and and good consultants cost a little bit more and so that you can get more individual attention. There's just you know, for all of us, there's just these things where it just doesn't make sense to kind of cheap out. the you know, but the entrepreneur in all of us, in

Kiera (39:26)

Mm-hmm.

His Paulness (39:27)

me too, and me as well. I mean, heaven help me,

AI has made it so that I can start coding my own stuff. That's probably not a good idea. But I'm doing it, Kiera, because I'm gonna I'm

Kiera (39:38)

I know.

His Paulness (39:38)

gonna save myself some money. that's

Kiera (39:40)

Ha ha.

His Paulness (39:41)

not what's gonna happen. I but anyway, that's the story, you know, that little guy in the back of your head. yeah, there's some things

Kiera (39:48)

Seriously.

His Paulness (39:49)

not to say. Money on, and I'll make this argument about policy. Most doctors will and will spend hours on creating their own employee handbook.

Which I mean, I don't know a doctor that doesn't value his or her time at five hundred dollars an hour. Many of you make a lot more than that. You have to generate that. That's the only way you can keep your business open. you end up with a fifteen to twenty to twenty five thousand dollar handbook that was created by somebody who doesn't understand HR law, which is you. it's just not the best way to spend your time. And I'm just I'm just like, doctor, this is

Kiera (40:20)

Agreed.

His Paulness (40:20)

a this is a fifteen thousand dollar document and it's got a bunch of evidence in it and it's not the right kind of evidence. So,

Yeah, thanks for letting me talk about that.

Kiera (40:31)

I agree. Okay. Now let's scare everybody into why they should not make their own handbooks. Like that that'll be the one that won't let us sleep tonight. Cause I'm sure has something

His Paulness (40:37)

That'll be the Halloween thing, yeah.

Kiera (40:39)

that that like just don't don't shortchange on your HR and legal. To me, I'm like, those are worth it. Just pay. I can sleep at night better. Like and cross my T's not my I's. I do want to do right by my employees. So okay, what's your other case study?

His Paulness (40:49)

And just like

I wanna add one more thing. When you're

Kiera (40:54)

Yeah.

His Paulness (40:54)

working with someone like us, you're also getting access to the experts who are taking the legal and the human side approach to it. So they've talked to thousands of practices and heard your problem probably. Every now and then somebody gets an award a an award, a monthly award for wow, we've never heard that before. but for the most part, you're talking to a a a group of experts who are there who can actually help you solve the problem too.

And that's where the real value is. You know, we were talking about AI giving the right legal answers. It's the human answers that are are more interesting. So the last case study is the it it it has to do with the classification conversation we had. a temporary employee who the doctor hired. she was a hygienist. she came into the practice, they hired her as a

ten ninety nine employee, which doesn't exist, hired as a ten ninety

Kiera (41:52)

Mm.

His Paulness (41:52)

nine, didn't put her on the payroll, didn't put her on workers' comp, didn't put her on anything. she ended up working for them for about three weeks. The person that she was supposed to set in for was supposed to come back, and that person was at the end of her pregnancy, and so she d was unable to return to work, so they kept that employee on for about three weeks. She was not great.

at the end of the three weeks, they she was like the the the the employee who she was replacing for for temporarily was going on maternity leave. She was expecting to stay and through that time period now. And they didn't want her to stay, and they told her, you know, no, you're you're not gonna stay. And so she went and filed unemployment. and you know, you guys are thinking, well, an independent contractor can't get unemployment. Well

Well, remember, she was misclassified, she was an employee, didn't matter what you called her. And this triggered the state to look

Kiera (42:53)

Mm.

His Paulness (42:54)

for her withholding and to see that she was not on the record. and then it triggered them to tell the Department of Labor in that state that this because they were working together. So UI a UI claim kicked in an entire investigation from the Department of Labor in that state. And so they wanted all the time records and

I think they may even requested bank records because they were looking for other instances of misclassification and paying people as an independent contractor. So that's the other horror story.

Kiera (43:25)

Mm-hmm.

His Paulness (43:25)

I don't I don't s that it doesn't usually get that bad, but it can, but I do see it blow up a lot and and I mean quite frequently people go out and make these claims. the other thing

Kiera (43:40)

Mm-hmm.

His Paulness (43:40)

that can happen in a misclassification in the domino effect.

Is that your associate doctor gets that that independent contractor gets audited. and in the audit they learned that they were working for you, and then that

Kiera (43:54)

Yeah.

His Paulness (43:54)

triggers an audit of you, and then you have to pay all the taxes that you didn't pay them, with with penalties.

Kiera (43:59)

Mm-hmm.

His Paulness (44:00)

That's a really happy note to end on, right?

Kiera (44:03)

I know. I'm like, all right. And with that, everybody, have a great day.

His Paulness (44:05)

Yeah, w with that, yep. Have a great day. I think we should pause to focus our way out of this somehow.

Kiera (44:11)

I think we should too. And I think I think the piece I take about this is I appreciate honest and real because I think so many times we were like, that's not gonna happen to me. And I would like people to like, I remember it was crazy. I actually was talking to my financial advisor this week and I was like, okay, let's just like run the tape. If me and my husband got divorced and

Like what would this look like? Would we both be financially taken care of? And he was like, is divorce on the table care? And I was like, no, not at all. I just want to know like what would be my worst case scenario if that ever did happen. Cause that's going to set me up better to make smarter decisions today and like make sure we're prepared if that ever came about. And he's like, You're the first client who's ever asked me that. And I thought about it and I'm like, that is actually how I think. And I feel like it applies very much to HR is why don't we know like what worst case scenarios are? Not so we don't sleep at night, but so we make better decisions.

His Paulness (45:00)

So we do

sleep at night. Yeah.

Kiera (45:00)

And like this can happen. Exactly.

Cause I'm like, I'd rather know. Like they have proven that us not knowing what happens creates more anxiety than knowing. And so I'm like, I feel like this is my like when I pay for HR or when I pay for my lawyer or when I pay for I have to learn a lesson. Like we're going through some things in our company right now. And I'm like, all right, this is just my CE and HR. So like me paying

His Paulness (45:18)

Yep. Exactly.

Kiera (45:20)

my legal fees, me paying my HR fees. Like I didn't learn this. You paid for dental school. So this is where we learn what's the absolute worst that could happen to us.

We pay for our CE education in this to learn from people like yourself for this. And then we do the best we possibly can. And when we learn that we were doing it wrong, we correct it, we make it better now and we keep moving forward. And that's how I think I would like put a pretty bow on this because Paul, like, to me, as much as I get creeped out every time I talk to you, I appreciate it. It's not a lie. Every time

His Paulness (45:48)

Okay.

Kiera (45:50)

you come and meet with our dentist and I'm like, my gosh, and my whole team's sitting there. And I'm like,

His Paulness (45:54)

Yeah.

Kiera (45:55)

like, please like just cover your eyes and ears and don't hear that I'm messing up. Like

His Paulness (45:56)

Just yeah, Toba said la la la. Yep, yep.

Kiera (45:59)

All the dentists get a hear and like their teams aren't even present. My whole team sitting there taking notes rapidly. And I'm like, goodness, like great and not great. but I appreciate it because it makes me better and it makes me a better business owner. And I think that's why we're all listening to this. So that's my take. You might have a happier ending, but to me, I'm like, let's learn

His Paulness (46:16)

I do.

Kiera (46:17)

it. Let's play our CE fees of learning HR and let's continue to be great employees in the industry.

His Paulness (46:22)

I have a very upbeat thing here

to end this on. it's very short. if your better half is like my better half, there's no way in hell they listen to your podcast 'cause they've heard your voice enough. And so your your

Kiera (46:34)

It's true.

His Paulness (46:34)

your spouse is never gonna hear that he's in imminent danger right now. Maybe he should hear it. Maybe we should send him a

Kiera (46:40)

True. Maybe to

I did tell him I asked the financial advisor that yesterday. I was like, I did ask this question.

His Paulness (46:47)

Mm-hmm.

Kiera (46:47)

He's like, Kiera, I like that about you. He's like, that's more probable than me dying. He's like, how many and I was like, you're right. And I was like, but guess what? I hope we ride off to the sunset forever. Like, that's my ultimate plan, but I

His Paulness (46:58)

Right.

Kiera (46:58)

would like to know. So anyway, he probably will never hear this podcast, which is probably in my favor today.

His Paulness (47:03)

Yeah.

look, I appreciate you having me on the show. I it's nice to be able to kinda talk through these things. This is like, you know, my passion, the thing I wake up thinking about every day. So it's kind of fun to share this stuff. I do appreciate.

Kiera (47:17)

Well, I appreciate you, Paul. Paul, you're such a resource in the industry. You're somebody that I recommend to every practice that we work with. So, Paul, if people are interested, if they loved this, if they're freaked out and they're sitting there with their stomach in knots, how do they connect with you? Or if they're like just wanting to be better. You don't have to be nervous. You can still reach out.

His Paulness (47:26)

Yep. yep. if they Exactly.

okay, so you can go to our website, which is C E D R, the word solutions with an S on the end. So that's CEDRSolutions.com You can go to our website, sign up for the education. if you want an employee handbook or you want to kind of figure out, you know, what it would take, you're like, hey, I think I maybe I should take care of this.

You go in the other direction,

Kiera (47:55)

Mm-hmm.

His Paulness (47:55)

just fill out a form, you'll talk to somebody here, it's all low pressure. You wanna make sure that you that you're saying, Look, I heard the podcast of Dental A Team, so we can so we know where you came from. and we'll take good care of you. We'll explain what's available to you and kinda, you know, go through the process. those are really the best two ways, you know. Best those are the best two ways.

Kiera (48:17)

I love it, Paul. And Paul's not going to be high pressure. I will be high pressure. Get your freaking handbooks updated and like legal. Then go do that. Like that to me is like give

His Paulness (48:25)

What she said.

Kiera (48:26)

yourself the gift of peace of mind at night. Go get that done. So, Paul, thank you for being on the show. Thank you for being a part the Dental A Team. Thank you for being someone I trust in the industry, someone I value. And I hope today everybody listen to what he says, make yourself better, become a little bit better today. And Paul, truly thank you for being on the show.

His Paulness (48:41)

My pleasure.

Kiera (48:43)

And for all of you listening, thanks for listening. And I'll catch you next time.

on the Dental A Team Podcast.

Does your team feel out of whack? Tiff and Pam pull back the curtain on maintaining practice camaraderie by sharing where to find those daily wins. They discuss not only setting goals, but the most effective way to do so; how to best utilize morning huddles; why ongoing communication is critical; and more.

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Transcript:

Tiffanie (00:01)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners. We are so excited to be here with you today. We love taking over the podcast, giving Kiera a little break, and as consultants coming on. So you have both myself, Tiffanie and Pam here with you today. Pam, how are you doing this morning?

DAT Pamela (00:20)

I am doing fantastic. How are you doing,

Tiffanie (00:22)

Good.

DAT Pamela (00:22)

Tiffanie?

Tiffanie (00:23)

I'm doing good as well. At the time of recording this podcast, it is morning time for us, about 10 a.m. And it's just after a long weekend. It's nice and hot outside. It's 2026, so I don't even know what year you're listening to this in. but we are just excited to be here. We love starting our weeks out with you guys, with podcasting, with delivering awesome information, awesome content. And Pam, I think today's

Topic is something that is really beneficial for everyone. And listeners, we want to make sure that we're always delivering the best quality, that we're delivering the best ideas, and that we're taking the things that we've learned not only in our own extracurricular activities and our own time in dental practices and education, etc., but also what we're seeing in practices that has been

Tried and true, that's been tested, and that's worked for practices. And something that comes to light for us often is camaraderie, culture, making sure that a team is really, really working together as a team and not just kind of like department by department or me here for myself, that kind of thought process. So today Pam and I are gonna be reviewing some pieces that we feel like we've

really nailed in within consulting and within, you practices of our own that really helped to establish that. And Pam, before we get started too much, what are you seeing in your consulting that you feel like kind of comes in alignment with this? What what are what are doctors saying? Why does this idea of really bringing together that camaraderie and that culture piece, why does this seem to be relevant for us today?

DAT Pamela (02:12)

Yeah, I mean that culture piece is huge, right? It's it's everything in a ball and how do we describe that? It's really difficult to describe, but you know it when you experience good culture or a poor culture in especially in a dental office. And I think that alignment, everyone knowing what they're working for is and working towards is super, super important.

Tiffanie (02:37)

Yeah. What do you feel like when you see an office that's not in alignment that maybe isn't having those shared goals or shared wins, things like that? What kind of things are you seeing happen because of that? Like what are the negative impacts of team members not being ali in alignment?

DAT Pamela (02:54)

Yeah, that's a a really good question, right? It's I think what I think everyone in the practice needs to know what that vision is, right? And when it is when the vision does not turn into daily habits, then that's where alignment or misalignment happens, really, right? destroying momentum is what I see. Destroying that alignment is constantly changing, right? If you're the leader and you're

constantly moving the goal, you're constantly saying, well, t we're gonna do this today and then tomorrow we're gonna do this. And you're just bouncing around. That's really difficult. So it doesn't matter what you decide it is, just stick to it and talk about it every day. So the pro that's a big issue that I see. Like a lot of doctors and office managers just feel like they, okay, here's what we're here's our daily things that we're working on to get to the vision that we've created.

But they don't talk about it every day. And it it

Tiffanie (03:55)

Yeah.

DAT Pamela (03:55)

it's it's just something that you have to do, whether that is a one, two, three, here's our focus, three focuses for the month, one focus for the month. It doesn't matter, but you have to that's that's a big issue in a lot of practices. inconsistency, right? Then that would kind of be in the same vein as that. When you know your doctor says, okay, I'm gonna be at Huddle every morning.

And then it happens for three days and then not for two, and then it happens for three more. So that it's it just says it's not important, right?

Tiffanie (04:29)

Mm-hmm.

DAT Pamela (04:30)

another another thing I see is I I again it kind of goes back to too many initiatives create confusion. So simple f simplifying it and giving one or two things that we're doing, accomplishing this day, week, month, whatever that is.

Tiffanie (04:51)

Yeah, no those.

DAT Pamela (04:52)

Yeah, I

I yeah, and I you know, I don't think teams really fail from a lack of information.

Tiffanie (04:59)

Mm-hmm.

DAT Pamela (05:00)

perhaps they feel f they fail when there's a lack of focus.

Tiffanie (05:05)

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And today we're talking about daily wins. Like how what how do daily wins help the progress of the practice? And how do daily wins help keep us in alignment? And some of the pieces that I think I see that come up that show us that this isn't happening, that shows us we're out of alignment and shows us that maybe some of those pieces that you were speaking to, Pam, are happening as when a doctor comes and they're not profitable.

they're they're not able to find the profit or they're not able to fill the schedule or they feel like their schedule is full, but it's hectic, they're not reaching goals, or maybe they don't have goals, or some of the biggest pieces, or I have a lot of clients that will come and say, gosh, we need more new patients, but then we look at the schedule and I'm like, Well, where are you gonna put new more new patients? So it might not be an acquisition issue, it might be a scheduling issue, but though those pieces really kind of point us in the direction.

of a misalignment and that misalignment is typically going to like to your point, Pam, be really related to the goal setting and the clarity around the goals. Like you said, they they don't always need more direction, like more words, but they sometimes lack that clarity that creates that confusion. And really, maybe not confusion so much as to like our monthly goal is 150. Like we need to hit 150,000.

But maybe confusion on what is a priority. So when we don't have that clarity, when we're not all rowing in the same direction, we're not talking about it frequently, we start to make decisions that are based on what's easiest, what's gonna clear up the busywork in front of me right now that may not be moving the needle forward when there's maybe an option for something that could move the needle forward. And I just put that on the back burner. And what I mean by that is maybe

Maybe I'm cleaning up a protocol because it's a little messy and a little confusing, but there's a patient who's just called to schedule treatment and I said, you know what, I'll call them back. I need to finish this first. But my priorities are a little out of sync there and out of alignment with what the actual goals are. And I think, Pam, when clients come in and they say the schedule's, you know, a schedule's one of the top things that clients come in and and talk to us about or that we get

random emails from our listeners at [email protected]. You guys send emails all the time, please continue. We love those. But we get those emails that are like, gosh, my schedule's full. I'm not hitting goal. My schedule's full. It's chaotic and it's crazy. My team doesn't know how to deal with the chaos, right? I don't, my team doesn't know how to mitigate the chaos. and a lot of those pieces, to your point, Pam, can be discussed daily multiple times. So

When you're helping a team find that alignment, Pam, where's one of the first spaces that you help guide them to speak of those daily wins?

DAT Pamela (08:05)

Yeah, I I mean it's it's really like when you're setting your goals, setting those KPIs and and setting your goals, it's it's not only saying we are gonna do 150,000, this is our monthly goal, but it's how do I get there? Me as one person in the practice, right? So you know, that that momentum telling each individual, like, okay, your job is this today. So

For example, if you were to set your vision as being like, okay, we want healthy patients, a happy team, and exceptional dentistry, right? That's not giving me a lot to go forward. So it's making sure within those goals, let's say it's 150,000, that you do actually say, and this is your job today. We are going, you're going to be looking for all the opportunities that we have. If something comes up, make sure you let everyone be aware. So

It's keeping that communication, I think is a big part of it. And really and and it is like to your point, Tiff, it is something you can talk about every day. Like are we staying on task? Are we staying on priority? And you know, we can do the tasks, yes, but the priority is production today, right? So or

Tiffanie (09:23)

Yeah. Yeah.

DAT Pamela (09:24)

the priority is you know

Patient experience. What whatever that is that you're doing, but you have to describe exactly what each team member needs to do.

Tiffanie (09:34)

Yeah. And that can come down too to like their job descriptions being super clear, right?

DAT Pamela (09:38)

Mm-hmm.

Tiffanie (09:38)

So if I'm a scheduling coordinator, I know my goal of my position is that the schedule is full to goal, right? So taking that monthly goal and then breaking it apart into weekly and daily goals and then putting it into perspective per position. So if I'm a scheduling coordinator, I know the hygiene schedule needs to be scheduled to X amount of dollars and I know the doctor's schedule.

For a doctor, each doctor is probably a little bit different, needs to be scheduled to X amount of dollars. And so then celebrating those wins daily is hey, guess what? We were scheduled to goal yesterday. Or hey, we were a little bit under goal yesterday, but for the month, we're ahead. Or we're a little bit under goal, and I know we've got three holes in the schedule today. Let's fill those and let's assign out how that's going to work. And Pam, I think that's what you mean too, with the morning meeting, right? Is looking at those wins and then saying, hey.

these things need to be done today. Let's assign them out and make sure that someone's responsible. And something as you're speaking, Pam, I'm thinking, I've seen this really, really off like off day, like it's frequent, frequent thing where teams come together for the morning huddle and we've got our back office that talks through you know, health histories, unscheduled treatment, needs for the back office for the patients. We've got our front office that talks about holes in the schedule.

talks about the financials, are we on track or off track? And then we split, right? So the so we say this is all the unscheduled treatment. We say, cool, this is all the holes, or hey our patients, our patient at 10 a.m. needs this thing. And we're like, okay, cool. And then we split and nothing applicable happens with the data that we just spoke about. We just kind of say, okay, great, we had our morning huddle, we're all aware, and it does it's just gonna happen. Right. So we kind of lean on the like universal

it just will happen and fall into place. and oftentimes they're not assigning those things out. So I think Pam to your point is saying, hey, this patient at 10 AM he needs a call to make sure that they took their pre-med or they need to remember to bring in their night guard or their retainer because we're we're delivering a crown today and we need to make sure it fits. So Pam, will you call do you have time this morning to call that patient and make sure that they have that reminder? So we're really

like divvying out and assigning those things so that we can win and we're all working as a team because I know a lot of times PM the front office thinks, well, it's a patient coming in on the schedule today. So that dental assistant needs to call that patient. The dental assistant is like, we don't get on the phone. The front office does the phone call. So me saying it means automatically that the front office is going to take care of it. But that mismatch communication in the middle is where we get a skew from alignment.

DAT Pamela (12:18)

Yeah, and and to exactly to that point is, you know, even if there are holes in schedule in the schedule, sometimes people need to know what is important to do. So, hey

Tiffanie (12:29)

Mm-hmm.

DAT Pamela (12:29)

guys, we have a couple of openings coming up this week and dental assistants, can I get you to make some phone calls today?

Tiffanie (12:38)

Yeah.

DAT Pamela (12:39)

and just really directing what is important. Like, yes, they need to, you know, stock the rooms and and and this and that.

but what is important today because our ultimate goal is to schedule 150 this month and we're down or we're up or wherever we are, and let's keep focused on what is going to move us forward.

Tiffanie (13:00)

Yeah. Yeah. Keeping our goals, our our eyes on those goals and then making sure we're taking the steps that are going to get us there and communicating those things. So it doesn't always have to be like a set, this is how we get there every day, like this these are the things you do. We're gonna have adjustments and changes and making sure that we're communicating those. So I think Pam to your point there, like that alignment and keeping that momentum every day.

Celebrating those wins is that right there. Like we're assigning things out, we're discussing them, we're making sure we're all in alignment, and then we're celebrating, hey, guess what? Because of the work that we put in, because we assigned them out, because we knew what we were doing, and everybody had a daily goal, we were able to reach this. And so that continues that momentum, and they see the fruits of their labor are creating change. And Pam, with that, I know I've seen this a ton, and and you probably have too.

Teams get like stale and stagnant when they don't have that, right? When they're not talking about alignment and not talking about those things, but they're also not seeing, that thing I did created that change or pushed that needle forward. Because when we do get in that, like just checklist, right? Like I'm just checking my boxes and I did my stuff today and I'm out of here. We don't have that sense of ownership and that win when we can see.

Hey, this isn't actually moving the needle. Like these things that I'm doing, they're not it's not moving it. I'm gonna adjust it and do this. And then we see that win. Then we can really gain the personal momentum and that creativity in the space. Do you notice that as well, Pam?

DAT Pamela (14:42)

Yeah, it's it's moving or I guess focusing your mind on those things that are a lot of busy work and yes, those things are super important. But also it's like keeping like you're saying, just really focused on what is it, what is our ultimate goal this month? Maybe our ultimate goal is to hit that one fifty. So that means that even by the hour, sometimes we're saying, Hey, we got a cancellation. Does anybody

Can we think of a patient that we can put in there? I mean, just like anything, keeping your back, so your back office doesn't have to come up and go, hey, what happened? shoot, our goal, you

Tiffanie (15:20)

Yeah.

DAT Pamela (15:20)

know. just keeping that communication. So, you know, if if typically let's just say it's an office manager or front office lead person, keep that communication going between front and back. Get up, manage on your feet, look around, see what's happening in the office, and then just

visualize what is that ultimate goal that we need to accomplish today, this week, next, this month, whatever that is. And you know, also you mentioned something recognizing those wins is super, super important. And it may be you recognize somebody for something that they did almost right, you know, just

Tiffanie (16:06)

Yeah.

DAT Pamela (16:06)

not wrong.

So it's get used to finding things right that people are doing and that behavior will get repeated. And I know that's a hard thing to hear because it's a hard thing to do. for for some people, some people it comes pretty natural, but you know we're so busy as leaders and dentists that it's difficult to do that. You're in your you're in your space. but even as an office manager, a lead, hey guys, that was awesome. We did so good.

Those kind of things get repeated when you mention them.

Tiffanie (16:39)

Yeah.

I agree. It makes me think of my home life, right? And I I say this a lot. And

DAT Pamela (16:45)

Mm. Totally.

Tiffanie (16:47)

what we try to do is we try to recreate this entire wheel in the workplace because we're at we're at work. It's gotta be totally different. But like people are people and how we operate, how we think, how we behave, right, is pretty similar no matter where you're at. You're still the same person. And so

DAT Pamela (17:05)

Right.

Tiffanie (17:05)

I try

to think of like what works for a family, what works for my family and for my family every night at dinner and make the kids tell me what their favorite part of the day was. Because their first, you know, the first words are, school sucks. I hate school. Why do I just sit there all day? Why do we have homework? This sucks. Why are we doing this? And I'm like, cool,

DAT Pamela (17:21)

No.

Tiffanie (17:21)

what was awesome today? Like what about today was amazing. And sometimes it's at lunch, right? I got pizza at lunch. I'm like, Well, that's cool. You wouldn't have pizza if you were home, you know? But like

Taking those wins every day and seeing looking teaching someone to see and look for the positive because it's so easy. There's so many things that you could change about every single day, no matter where you're at. You go to Disneyland and be like, this could have been better. Right? You go in you go to Europe and be like, This could have been better. Absolutely anywhere you're gonna find that. That's the easy part. The hard part, like you said to your point, Pam, is finding the amazing places. Where do we do really well? So great.

We didn't hit goal yesterday, but you know what we did do? We made a load ton of calls, and those calls are gonna turn into calls back for future schedule. We may not have hit goal, but we got the whole practice deep cleaned, right? How many times as a dental assistant did I clean those operatories? Because we had that hour, you know, every six

DAT Pamela (18:23)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (18:23)

months something comes about, and I'm like, great, we had a cancellation. Deep clean, ladies, like get get these suckers cleaned up so.

There's always gonna be, there's always a space for the positive. And to your point, Pam, if we can keep our eyes on the positive, noticing, noticing what we didn't hit. So we're not forgetting about our goals and we're not saying, it's fine, we didn't hit goal. It's not fine, but let's look at the progress that we did make, the work that we did put in that's going to help us get to those goals and figure out what else can we do? So cool, this worked, let's keep repeating that. You know what? This one actually didn't work.

So like don't repeat that. Don't keep doing something because it's something we've always done. Let's not repeat that and let's replace it with something that could work better.

DAT Pamela (19:09)

Yeah, yeah. You know, for some reason I just went to a a quick way to do this, and and many people have heard this before, but doing an end-of-the-day high five huddle,

Tiffanie (19:19)

Yeah.

DAT Pamela (19:20)

right? So the the second a lot the very last person leaves, you know, your patient leaves the office. I had one office that they the office manager would ring like this bell and

Tiffanie (19:32)

Yeah.

DAT Pamela (19:32)

er everyone would literally drop what they were doing and run to the front desk and they'd all stand together and it

took two minutes to do

Tiffanie (19:40)

Yeah.

DAT Pamela (19:41)

and they would say, my gosh, I saw, you know, Jackie was helping Susie today and she helped clean a room. That was so awesome of you to do. Or somebody says, thank you so much for assisting with that patient. That was very difficult and I appreciate you know what you did. Really fast, a quick five minute like, how did you see, how did you show up today? What did you see from me? What did I see from you? And

you know, helping teams do that in a quick end of the day, five minute huddle, then you're back to doing your thing. It ultimately leads to, I guess, change management, what

Tiffanie (20:19)

Yeah.

DAT Pamela (20:19)

you would say, and and helping the team adop adapt like a maybe a different way of thinking, a different way of doing and and wow and and really making making the change be what is what is the thing that we're focusing on. You know, this

Day, month, week, whatever.

Tiffanie (20:39)

Yeah, I love that idea. And really it like ends the day on a positive note, which then progresses you

DAT Pamela (20:44)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (20:45)

to start tomorrow on a positive note because you left thinking about the good. So I love that idea. I think that's phenomenal. Awesome.

DAT Pamela (20:52)

Yeah. Yeah.

Tiffanie (20:54)

Well, I think that we could pretty much sum up our action items with making sure you know your goals that you're talking about your goals frequently. And doctors, I know there's a few of you out there that are like, You guys are nuts, I'm not talking to my team about my numbers. Call us, please.

call us. We are huge advocates for making sure everyone knows the direction that you're rowing. So call us and let us help you figure out how to get those numbers over to your team. So know your numbers, talk about them often and allow people to have those wins. Talk about wins. Morning huddle, great place to talk about wins and I love this idea of an afternoon huddle. You can do a quick 10-minute morning huddle and then do a quick two to five minute afternoon huddle. I love the bell. I've also seen like the easy button from Staples. Whatever

DAT Pamela (21:35)

Mm-hmm.

Tiffanie (21:37)

I know I know there's actually a team I had Pam that did a song. So they would put this specific song on the radio and as soon as that song came on, as like Michael Jackson or something, right? They would all come running to the front. So end-of-day huddles

DAT Pamela (21:49)

I love it.

Tiffanie (21:50)

can be really fun. and and no matter what, making sure that everyone has that clear direction and that things are being assigned out. So those would be those would be our three action items today. Go make sure that you're doing those things. If you're doing those, you're like, okay, ladies, this is phenomenal, but I'm still missing something.

please reach out. [email protected]. You can head over to TheDentalATeam.com You can sign up for a quick little meeting with us. Like we love to just give as much as we can. So allow us that space if you need that help. Even if you say guys not right now, I'm not ready for full consulting. We're still here to help give you some guidance and direction and we want to. So please reach out. Drop us a five star review below. We love hearing from you guys. Pam, thank you so much for

DAT Pamela (22:34)

Thank you.

Tiffanie (22:34)

busting out

this podcast today. It was so much fun. I love picking your brain. and I really love talking momentum and team stuff. You have a knack for that and a knack for the consistency in it. So anyone who gets

DAT Pamela (22:47)

Thank you.

Tiffanie (22:48)

to work with Pam, you're very lucky. You are going to become an insanely consistent practice and be able to see within those consistencies areas that yeah, I'm being consistent but it's not getting the change that I want. Pam's awesome at being like, cool, then stop doing it.

Let's do something different and do it consistently and watch the change, which I love. It will happen. Yeah. And it happens too

DAT Pamela (23:03)

Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. 'Cause it will happen. It will it will happen. Yeah. It just it is

Tiffanie (23:12)

where it's like it is getting it. And then all of a sudden it's like, it's not working anymore. You know, yellow pages don't work anymore. Phone calls aren't always

DAT Pamela (23:18)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (23:20)

our best bet anymore. That's okay. So I get it. You're welcome.

DAT Pamela (23:22)

That's true. That's true. Thanks, Tiffanie. Yeah.

Tiffanie (23:26)

Thank you, Pam. And listeners, sign up today. If you're lucky enough, you may get Pam.

And there's a few of the ladies here that are ready and willing to help you talk numbers, talk change, and really just propel your future. Okay, that's a wrap. Thanks everyone. We'll catch you next time.

DAT Pamela (23:44)

Hmm.

Bye.

Post-visit follow-ups — this episode is all about 'em! Following up with patients is one of the most overlooked ways to build trust. Kiera shares tips on both how to accentuate and accelerate your post-visit methods as a practice, as well as what to avoid doing.

Episode resources:

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Transcript:

Kiera (00:01)

Hello, Dental A Team Listeners. This is Kiera. And today I wanted to just talk about a way for your practice to stand out in a pretty easy, pretty easy way. Along with that, it's also a great way to boost your case acceptance. So I want to talk about how, like, outside of your visit, the post-visit follow-up is actually one of the biggest things that can differentiate a practice. And I think it's something we haven't talked about a lot. It's just something we naturally do. And I was excited to do a podcast about it because realistically, the patient experience doesn't end when they walk out the front door.

But I think for a lot of offices it does. A lot of times it's like, my gosh, they're back in six months and they don't have their treatment scheduled. I think some of you can feel that. sometimes it's like, well, do we do follow-up on these patients? And people are like, but we're too busy to do that. And so making sure that we realize that follow-up isn't just customer service. It's truly one of the most overlooked systems for being able to build trust, to being able to increase your case acceptance, to be able to really grow a raving fan patient base. and I think it's just something that's a very easy piece to add into your practice without a lot of lift.

but it's going to give you a lot of lips. So I love the ones that are like, what's that 1% that I could do that would give me like 20%? That's one of these awesome tips that I wanted to give all of you today. So I want to just walk you through some of the post-visit follow-up things and how you can how you can really accelerate and accentuate that. Also some of the mistakes that practices make after a patient leaves. And then what are some of the things that we recommend you do to really help increase that patient care follow-up. So these are things that we do all the time in Dental A Team. We work with hundreds and thousands of offices.

We help, we see, we see the patterns. And our job is to really make your life so easy, so comfortable, so confident, and for dentists to really like have fun doing dentistry again. So I wanna just go through this with all of you today, give you some tactical, practical tips. And remember, Dental A Team's mission is to possibly impact the world of dentistry in the greatest way possible. So I just want you to know that today you're gonna learn how to follow some of these tips, put them into play, and hopefully gain patient loyalty.

increase those raving fans and really boost that case acceptance for you. So the goal is like people love to feel remembered. And there's this whole thing where people remember the beginning and the end of an experience. And so your intro, you probably have that really dialed in. We say hello, we have the coffee bar, we make sure it says warm welcome. And if not, start there. Okay. If you don't have that dialed in, start there. But then the second thing is what people actually remember a lot is how they feel when they leave.

And so a lot of times when a patient leaves, we're like, check the box, they're done, great. No communication from them. The next thing they're gonna hear from us when it's time to schedule and do their six-month appointment. But like it's follow-ups automated and it's very impersonal. And I know you're like, but Kiera, we have so many patients. Like, how am I supposed to make this feel personal? So a couple of things, and there's some resources out there, so it doesn't have to be a major uptick, but one great thing that makes patients stand out all the time in practices is to call after a major procedure. also on a new patient who's coming in, call before they even get there.

And call after the new patient visit. There are softwares that actually let you just leave a voicemail so you don't even actually have to call. You can just have it as part of the dental assistants checklist. Here's the three patients, call them tomorrow. You can send a personalized text when appropriate, making sure you stay HIPAA compliant. You check on the patient's comfort and recovery. And you can also thank patients for choosing your practice. Now, there's ways that it can be automated. And I had a dentist that I just went and saw, and they're like, How was your appointment? It was one of the worst appointments. Like, I will tell you, it was absolutely one of the worst dental appointments.

Ever had, and that's saying a lot because I work with hundreds of offices and I've seen some pretty ratchet experiences. Like, that's okay. You're growing, you're learning, there's no judgment. When I'm coming in as a patient, I'm not here to consult you. I want it to be a great experience. Well, they texted me afterwards on an automated thing saying, How was your appointment? Leave us five stars. And I was I freaking hated you guys, like, not the thing to do. But if they would have, and I was a new patient, if they would have sent me a text like, hey care, we really loved you choosing our our practice. We're so grateful for you, and we're really excited to see you next time. Like

Fantastic. And then if I write back and say something, awesome. but really just quick little things to be intentional rather than automate. And I know we're just looking for the automation, and you're welcome to automate. I'm just saying, like, think about it. How many big procedures did you have yesterday? And also how many new patients did you have? Odds are we're probably looking like two to four. Two to four. And this isn't necessarily a dentist. This can be the front office team. This can be our clinical team. So it does not need to fall on the dentist shoulders. How much time, truly, would it take to make four phone calls tomorrow?

The appointments and just say, like, hey, how is that going after that crown was done? We want to make sure that you feel cared for. Any questions that you have, and also like if the experience was great, just tell your friends. But like, I'm gonna ask and make sure everything's good before I ask for a referral. but just calling and saying, like, hey, I just want to check in with you and make sure that you're good. People want to feel important, people want to feel great, and people will remember how you make them feel. So, small little things of follow-up will create that raving fan culture.

Like I can't tell you if I've ever had a dentist call me after a procedure. The answer is probably not. Like zero for zero. So do you recognize how this is something so small? The uptick, like that's two minutes a day that we're gonna be doing? Now you're like, but Kiera, like what if they're in pain? Great. It's a great way to get ahead of it instead of getting a Google review that tells you it's a great way. And we'd rather know if our dentistry is not doing well. So that way we can fix it long term. So just do a quick follow-up on them. Check in, see how they're doing. This one thing.

Like, so if we just say like one procedure that should automatically trigger a follow-up the next day, just add that in. Add that in as a simple thing. I would do new patients and I would do any big procedure. Call them that night, call them the next day, just make sure that they're good. Again, this can be some doctors do it on their drive home, some delegate it to their front office team, some delegate it to their assistants. I don't care. What I'm saying is we're doing our job to make that patient feel seen. It's like, think about restaurants that put fresh flowers on the table. That doesn't take a lot of effort, but it's something that's memorable. It's something they're like, wow.

They went a little bit above and beyond. And to me, that's a two-minute uptick for you that's really gonna make patients feel seen, valued, and loved. The other piece is with treatment. This is gonna be a second part of it. We also have treatment plans. And my goal is for you guys to get your treatment plans scheduled, to make sure patients are saying yes in the chair, making sure that we have them. If they don't, you need to be following the two two two follow-up. So anytime a patient does not schedule with me, I tell them, like, fantastic, no problem, Marsha. I want to make sure that you have all your questions answered. I'll touch base with you in a couple of days, just see if any questions popped up that we maybe didn't think about.

Just to make sure that you feel like you're rock, solid, confident moving forward. I'm gonna call Marcia in two days, then I'm gonna call her in two weeks, then I'm gonna call her in two months. And some people are like, ugh, I feel like it's such a nuisance. Well, if you feel that way, they're going to feel that way. For me, I believe that like if a patient doesn't get treatment done, I failed them because we diagnosed it. Like, this is something where I need to like make sure that treatment plans are revisited. Patients are definitely not the ones where it's in their court saying, I'll call you back to me. I've left them with.

something that they don't that they need clarity on that I need to resolve. There's no ownership of unscheduled treatment and it just sits out there like, okay, well, moving on to the next day. Versus like, no, we have follow up every time. We know we follow up in two days, two weeks, two months, and we know that there's a personalized conversation instead of it just being like, are you ready? It'd be like, hey Marsha, I know we chatted about this. I wanted to make sure all your questions were answered. I've been thinking of a few things for you too. Give me a quick call. I want to chat them with you. Well Marsha's like, well what has gear been thinking about?

She's been thinking about me over there. What are we thinking about? I've just made Marsha feel like the most incredible VIP girl out there. In two weeks, hey Marsha. Dr. John and I were talking about you. And Dr. John actually asked me to call and reach out to you. He wanted to make sure you were taken care of. Give me a quick call. I've got a couple of ideas for you that I wanted to work through with you. Fantastic. This is something of like it's consistency, it's not pressure. It's going to boost your case acceptance, but more about that, like.

Patients oftentimes just need a reminder, not a sales pitch. It's like, yeah, I forgot to get that done. Sometimes it was money, sometimes it was foul, sometimes it was timing. I don't know what it is, and I'm not going to project and assume that. What I am going to do is I'm going to make sure I have consistent follow-up and I'm going to have more patients in there. And also, me having to do follow-up is a way for me to get really good at my case acceptance because I don't want to follow up with these people. So for me with patients when like, I need to check my schedule. I'm like, my gosh, Marsha, I would, I, Kiera, would hate to forget about you and let you slip through the cracks.

Let's just pop you on the schedule. It's a reminder for me not to let you slip through the cracks. And that way we both are able to connect. If anything comes up, I'm happy to move you. This way I don't forget about you. Marcia's like, yeah, Gar, don't you dare forget about me. Put me on that schedule right now. Marsha might still say no to me. But guess what? I've tried really hard to make sure that she does not fall through the cracks. Also, treatment coordinators should be reviewing their unscheduled treatment every single week and reporting back ownership of all of what's going on. Who did you reach out to? What was the 222 follow up? I have practices that see

Hundreds of patients a day and we have treatment trackers on them. Every treatment coordinator is tracking it. And guess what? Just by tracking this alone and having a set follow-up, our case acceptance has already increased 15% in one month and implementing this. And this is across three different doctors in a very, very, very large practice. I have another practice, $5 million practice. We've already added 100,000 of additional treatment every single month by following some of these processes. This is not something we're like, we're doing this in the rookie league. It is even the big leagues are benefiting from this.

Of just having consistent follow-up. And also patients feel good, but again, you have to have the right mindset. I say closing treatment is 80% psychology, 20% skill. What am I thinking about when I call them? I'm like, gosh, I just have to call these patients. Or is it, hey, I didn't solve their pain point when they were here. I need to find out what that was. My job is to make sure that they get their dental treatment taken care of. And I need them to feel like they are the most important person in the entire world. I care about you so much. So when I call a dentist who chose not to like sign up right then and there with Dental A Team.

It's not because I care if you work with Dental A Team or not. It's because I care about you as a human. And if Dental A Team can serve you, amazing. I'm here to serve you. If Dental A Team can't serve you, amazing. I want to make sure that you're taken care of because I care about you as a human. That's the difference. Do you care about these patients as humans, making sure that they're getting their best treatment? Or are you just concerned about like, well, we just have to do the list because Kiera said, no, remember, it's about the follow-up, the intentionality, the love, the adoration, because people then feel great about it.

And the third piece I want to bring up is like creating lifetime patients, not one-time visits. And retention is one of your greatest things. And a lot of people I think live in the, they've just been coming to me forever. And insurance, I will tell you, the buyer is different. The buyer is not as loyal as it used to be. People are inundated constantly with ads. Like we have a like an Ivy stream of information that comes to us every second of every day. it's wild. I deleted Instagram off my phone because I was like, I just feel like I'm on it a lot. Like, let's see.

Back to it like 10 times in one day, and the app was deleted. Like, I'm talking like we are getting that, like just coursing through our veins. And so when I look at this, how can I make sure that we have retention where people not just out of ease, but out of loyalty, continue to come back to dental practices? and things when it's broken, when you have broken systems, are patients disappear after treatment, hygiene appointments aren't reappointed, referrals are happening by chance instead of design. And you can look at this through attrition rates, like we have.

software for all of our clients that were able to watch their attrition rates. and what happens is like little simple things. So all hygienists are just reappointing their their patients. You should be able to sit at 98%, create that bond, create that love, and just like don't ask them if they want to come back. Like, look, I'm here on a Thursday at 12 o'clock. Schedule me in six months on a day on a Thursday at 12 o'clock. Odds are I'm probably going to be free. People are people of creature. And you just made my life so easy. Creatures of habit. People are people of creature. People are

People are people, people are creatures of habit. There you go. That's what I'm trying to say here. You're welcome. This is unedited, unfiltered. Kiera, hi, nice to meet you. but they are, they're creatures of habit. So just reappoint them. Say, hey, Kiera, I made your life easy. I've scheduled you on this date. Can't wait to see you in six months. Great. If I have an issue with that date, I'll tell you. Otherwise, I think that you are the nicest human because I didn't have to think of that decision with you. Other times, like celebrate the milestones and anniversaries, write notes about me.

When I come back in, say it. I don't care that you have a cheat sheet note behind the scenes. Like, say it, have a conversation, remember me as a human. Ask for feedback and reviews. Like truly, if they had a great experience and you know you connected with them, just say, Kiera, I adore you. Like I love seeing you every time. The greatest way to have more Kiera's on my schedule is to have you leave a review. So I would love it if you could leave a five-star review for us. That way people know and people can come because realistically, you're not writing it for me. You're writing it for all the other Kiera's that are looking for a dentist out there.

Who are scared and you sharing your experience will help more of them do it. Do you see? It's not about Kiera. I'm not looking for the review for me. I'm looking for all those other patients that are just like you, and you're helping all of them know that we're a great dentist that they can trust and choose. and like just making sure that these people feel like they are your family, that they are your friends. Dentistry is such a weird healthcare profession, guys. Like I think it's one of the most intimate, minus the gyna, like that's the only other more intimate I feel that there is of a professional.

Like the mouth. Like we are our eyes are open. I I'm looking you in the eyes. Like I know I can at least like look up at the scene and not see them. Mouth, like it's eye to eye, guys. There's nothing like we can't we can't like mm, I can shut my eyes, which most patients do. We are so close, we are so intimate. We want those patients to feel comfortable, we want them to feel confident, we want them to feel that we're gonna check in with them. So this is a space of like where if a practice will consistency, follow up, have a great experience.

Ask for those reviews, stay connected with the patients. It's going to give you this strong retention where people want to share about you as a dentist. I remember when I was asking people when I moved to a new city, I said, who's the dentist you go to? All of them said the same dentist. And that dentist, I looked at them. They have strong systems. They have strong systems for reviews. They have strong systems for how they schedule. They have strong systems for how they do referrals. Like they are very, very, very strong. And five people that I asked told me the exact same dentist. The dentist didn't get a chance to talk to me. I didn't see their Facebook ads.

I didn't get a mailer. I asked because when people move to a new town, they're gonna ask their colleagues and their friends. So, how can you stand out? Call them after an appointment. You better believe they'll be like, Yeah, my dentist calls me after my procedures and make sure that I'm doing okay. My dentist called me like when I first joined their practice, they called me. When I got to their office, they gave me this like awesome swag thing. They were so nice to me. I was in and out on time. My dentist is no pain. Like, I absolutely love going to them. My dentist, their front office is so easy to work with. They get me in, they accommodate my schedule.

They're fantastic. Whatever it is, stand out. This is your chance. This is your time. And I feel like, why not be the best of the best? because I want you to remember that every patient interaction is either strengthening or weakening that relationship. So I have to think about like if we're on this scale, like, am I putting more coins on the weakness or am I putting more coins on the strengthening? And every day we get to put votes on there. And this is something where it's again.

Two minutes here, we add it to a checklist, we add it to an end of day, we talk about this. What can we do for those magic moments for our patients? Because we want to stay connected. We want to stay connected between appointments and do it in a way. There's a practice in Hawaii that I work with. Every patient knows them and they love every single patient. Every time we go to the store, those people know people. And that's because I feel like they're a family, they genuinely care. They care about their patients. They're not just a number. They care. They've built these long-lasting relationships for generations.

And I think for you to just think about why would generations for years want to keep coming back here? It's not because you're a dentist. Yes, your hand skills will get you so far, but what is it about you? What keeps you going back to your favorite restaurant? What keeps you going back to your favorite places? It's the small little things that don't seem very big and they probably don't take a lot of time that actually make the biggest difference. So I would recommend that you guys go through our patient journey and ask, like, what's the last impression we leave our patients with after every visit? What can we do to improve that?

What's our follow-up on unscheduled treatment? And let's put a system in place that we never miss and everybody follows the same path. And let's make sure that in between visits there's some type of communication where patients know we genuinely are thinking about them. Whatever it is, I think the book Unreasonable Hospitality is coming to mind of how can you make these magic moments for your patients stand out a little bit? Because making your patients feel remembered, making sure that they feel like it's consistent, making sure that there's a relationship and a bond.

Well, keep people tethered to you. And like I said, I feel like this is a great opportunity where not a lot of offices are doing it. So it's a great way for you to have a cutting edge, for you to be a cut above the rest by just being nice, by being a human, by going one step further than someone else, but it takes you two minutes longer. So great dentistry earns trust, great follow-up earns loyalty. And I think if you guys remember that, it's follow-up. They say like the devil is in the details, and I feel like the magic is also in the making. And so make sure that we're doing those follow-ups. Make sure that we're

Checking in with our patients and really, truly, it's a space where we want our patients to rave about us. We want them talking to their friends. You want to be the office that when someone moves to the neighborhood, five people not even related or working in the same area voluntarily say you are the best practice. That's how you know that you won. And it's by making people feel genuinely cared for. So if you want ways and help on this, I know we help teens, we walk through this, we work with offices on this, we help you see what your exact

pieces that makes you special. We work with a lot of offices and there's not a one size fits all. It's your practice, your style, your life. So let's work on it. Let's get the follow-up in place. Let's add the the production to your schedule. Let's add the loyalty to your fan base. And let's make you the best dentist there can be. Reach out if we can help you. [email protected] and as always, thanks for listening. And we'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.

Establishing the right systems in your practice creates consistency, profitability, and freedom in ways that individual effort is never going to. Kiera talks about the difference between systems and the people using them, how to know if you need a new system, why the right system equals scalability, and more.

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Transcript:

Kiera (00:00)

Hello, Dental A Team Listeners. This is Kiera. And today I want to just go back to basics with you because I think that this is such an important thing because we talk so much about systems, but I think people want systems and we talk about systems and like what are systems? And like what is the difference between a system and needing to train people? And I think that there's just this like back and forth in our worlds where we think like, hey, if I get a system, everything's gonna work. Or

Hey, if I get the right people and train them, then it's all going to work. And I think that they go hand in hand. And so today I wanted to kind of break down, dispel, disseminate, and like what exactly is a system? What exactly should we train? How do we put these two things together? And how do you really get the freedom that you're looking for? Like, we're about to roll into a mastermind and I was building the content. So spoiler alert, if you're not a part of our in-person masterminds, get your booties over into Dental A Team because we do meet twice a year and have a leadership mastermind where doctors and OMs get together with myself.

our entire consulting team, and we really talk about things off record. So there's no cameras, there's no recording in there, and it's just a rift area. And I was working on like what do dentists really want? And it's the control paradox. They want control, but the way you get control is by knowing that your systems are working for you and people are reporting. You don't want to actually do all the pieces, but you want it to report back to you and you want to know things are being done your way. Yes or yes yes. Like, am I speaking to you? And do I know you? I hope so. Because I absolutely love dentists. I want to just give you a giant hug and I want to remind you.

That you are doing better than you think you are. I want to remind you that there is an easier path than what you're doing. And I wish I could find somebody that was the Kiera Dent for dental consulting companies. I wish, I wish I could find her. I had a client tell me today, he said, Kiera, you have blessed the world of dentistry in so many ways. And I take that as such a huge compliment because not only did we make their practice better, but that doctor is literally working seven to three, four days a week, taking home several millions a year, living their best life, being with their kids, and to be able to give someone their life back.

Be able to help grow them personally and professionally, that is the greatest gift in honor. And so I am so honored that this is the job I get to do. This is the company that we have. And so while systems are annoying, I want to remind you like this is the way that you're actually going to get the freedom, aka the control that you want to be able to see if your practice is working. So I want you guys to recognize we've got to do systems, we've got to do training, we've got to hold accountable. We can't just put it in play. Like there's cure, this feels hard. I know one of our core values is ease. So I'm gonna try and break it down with you.

Of ease. These are things that we've done hundreds of thousands of times. We work across the nation with small boutique practices. We're talking Medicaid, FIFA service, boutique, natural path to multi-locations. I've got a practice that is building, I'm not joking, a 50 op location. So you name it. We've seen so much in our world. We've seen the DSO world. We've seen the private practice world. We've seen DSO's gone wrong. We've seen DSO's gone right. I feel like having that experience and credibility is something whew.

You can't get other than just living through it. And then my job is to give you as much of that and to hopefully work with you, empower you, change your world, whatever it is. All I ask in return is that you leave us a comment, you leave those five stars, and you share this with someone. That's all I ask. Because if we can serve and help more people just like you, that is the greatest gift. You guys know my mission is to possibly impact the world of dentistry in the greatest way possible. That's why I do this. This is why I do it for free. I don't charge you anything. I don't ever, we don't even have ads. We do our own thing because

Wanna make sure that we're giving you guys back high value quality. So, with that, what I want you guys to realize is systems are going to create consistency, profitability, and freedom in ways that individual effort is never going to fix for you. So, number one, systems are what's gonna create that consistency for you. So when a person leaves, we don't want that knowledge to go out the door with them. When someone has a day off, we don't want that knowledge to go with them. We want to have that system of stability through all of it. And that's what it's gonna create. I remember the day that I had my company go through, it was a three month project, and I had us work.

Actually, break down our entire operations manual. There was like a sense of relief in breath that I could relief that I never realized I had. Now, that is a hard project, and usually it's not gonna move the needle for you. I'll tell you that was one of my worst quarters. Profitability-wise, we didn't grow, but stability-wise, we exponentially grew. Now it's been about five years since I did that project, and guess what? We've outgrown those systems. So guess what? It's probably time for us to do it, and we are actually working on our next version of it. And I'm so excited about it because it's gonna be so much better.

We do not like the way you can tell a system is missing is every team member does it differently. So if you walk in and you're having different assistants work with you and every assistant sets it up differently, guess what? You probably don't have a system. You just have people just doing it their own way. If different schedulers or if a scheduler is out and our schedule doesn't go the same way, now that doesn't mean case acceptance is perfect because there are some skills behind it, but that does mean that we have a set follow-up, we do the same billing. If this person's out for a week, everybody would be able to do it. That's going to help.

If new hires struggle to learn, we don't have a system. We have it being where people are telling each other. If results depend on who's working that day, you don't have a system. You have a people thing. So what we want to have is, excuse me, you want to have documented processes, you want to have standardized expectations, and we want everybody to be trained the same way. But we also want to make sure that that system really is getting us the results that we want. So what we do is

I'm big on when we take on an office instead of doing a whole operations manual like I did. You can do that. Don't worry, we can help you with that if that's your like main shebang. but typically what we're gonna do is we're going to look at what is the vision of the practice, what does that doctor and owner want? And then what are the numbers telling us? And usually your number that's the lowest number or what the PL tells us, that's where we're first gonna build systems because everybody wants the system to win, right? Like if I come in and I put in a protocol for I don't know, like scheduling.

But your schedule's great. We're all out on time. We're hitting our productive goals. Sure, that's nice to have. And I'd like it documented of what we're currently doing to make sure, like if that person's out, we can repeat it. But odds are that's probably not my biggest pain point. Now, there is a flip side to that. And I will say that if team members leave, then yes, it is a very detrimental. So at a minimum, I like every team member to have a daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly list of what they do and at least those protocols written down. So if someone's out, I can grab their checklist and I can be like, all right.

Sarah daily does this, and here is where it is in the drive, or here's a video of it, or here's a checklist of it. So that way if Sarah's gone on vacation, nothing that Sarah is doing is dropped. So non-negotiable for me is everybody has to have a daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly. If you want those, guess what? We have them for all of our clients. So makes life real easy. And that's just something we've built, but every person should have that. Then what we're gonna look at is we're gonna actually build systems based on the metrics and the numbers. Because basically we've got the core processes done.

Those are core processes daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly, what do we do? And we've got quick systems built behind the scenes. So that way I've got everybody's job. So if anybody walks out and leaves me, I'm not sitting here like, huh, how do we like it's crazy. Whenever someone goes on vacation, I'm like, awesome. Let's see if we've got a protocol written for this. Let's see if we've written it down. Can we figure out how to do podcast scripts? Can we figure out how to do podcast reels? Can we figure out how we do podcast recordings? Can we figure out how we do payments? Can we figure out how we schedule?

And if we don't have all that written down to where anybody without being told can do it, let's start with that. So, and then after that, let's look at what our numbers are telling us and let's build systems there. So if like a front office doesn't have a great scheduling system, which happens, you get wildly different outcomes based on who's answering the phone, who's there. Once you put into play a scheduling protocol, here's our block schedule, here's how we do all of our scheduling, instantly consistency improves, production goes up, everybody goes home on time. That's a system.

So I believe that great practices aren't dependent on individual memory. They've got to be dependent on you and your practice and like where no matter who comes in, yes, I want eight players, but I want eight players to be able to follow a system and a process. Systems make excellence repeatable. And I think that that is a great line for you to take down. Systems make excellence repeatable. So what do you have going on? How is this for you? And so I just want you to like quickly look through if you don't have your daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly, annual plans, start there.

If you do look at an area based on your numbers and your metrics of where are maybe we are missing in this section that I could have variable results and we could document a process so I get set results per people. That's gonna help you have just a process for it. And like I said, this is going to reduce your stress, give you the control that you're looking for, and the consistent results that I know you're dying for. So next step is systems actually reduce stress and decision fatigue. Once we have a system and a process, like this is how we always set up for a crowd.

This is how we always schedule. This is what we do for hiring. Here's how we place the ads. You don't have to constantly be thinking of what to do. Teams get overwhelmed not because they're busy. It's because they're constantly deciding and making up new processes and protocols. Like, yes, they're busy, but think about what they're busy on. It's like, shoot, we don't know how to hire. We don't have a set process. Like we don't have a recare reactivation process. So it just automatically goes. So our schedule is always full.

Like we always call 20 people every single day, non-negotiable. I don't care if it's a busy day, a bad day, a great day, a wonderful day, a horrible day. We make 20 phone calls every single day and we send out 20 texts every single day, non-negotiable to make sure our schedule is full. Then we have a recare reactivation. So at the beginning of every month, we run these items, we send out the postcards, we send out the letters, we send out the text, whatever your process is, we do that every single first day. For me as a CEO, every single like I literally woke up.

At midnight this month because my standard is by the 30th or 31st last day of the month, all of the money transfers for profit first are made non-negotiable. That's what I do. I don't want to think about it, I don't want to make that decision like, am I gonna save money this month? Am I no, it's just a process, it's a cadence. So when we're missing a system, it looks like team members are asking the same questions repeatedly. Like, pay attention, what questions are coming up? We need a system and a process that's easy and repeatable. Leaders.

Solving problems day in, day out. Doctors, you are the solving machine. It comes to you constantly, constantly, constantly. You don't have a system for that. Or constant interruptions throughout the day. Hey, what do you think we should do about this? Hey, what do you think we should do about that? Hey, there's a process for this. Hey, we already have that written. So, what successful practices do is they create clear workflows. We have established expectations, and then we just repeat build repeatable processes and systems that are very easy to find. So again, that daily, weekly, quarterly has been my easiest one for people to just find like.

What am I supposed to do? I don't know. Well, great. Here's what we do on a daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly per position in our practice. And then here's how to do it. So if daily we join morning huddle, well, here's our process, here's a form, here's the agenda that you fill in and it has it written out. Office manager does this part, dental assistant does this part, hygienist does this part. No one has to think about it. Everybody knows we all come prepared for morning huddle. We win our day.

At the end of the day, we have an end-of-day checklist that just makes sure we have all the pieces checked off. This is what we do. We're set up to win in billing. We know every single first length Monday we run this new report. We're working through these accounts. By the end of the month, I'm expected to get all the way through all those items of every single patient in the AR. every single day I resend batched claims, like those are just systems. New patients, we have a new patient form. We are able to schedule them within 15 minutes.

and we make sure that they are always confirmed 48 hours in advance. We leave no open holes. Like if someone's unconfirmed, they don't get to stay on the schedule. Case acceptance, here's our follow-up process for every single appointment that we we present. Hygiene, here's our period protocol. So every hygienist is presenting period the exact same way. We have NDTR handoffs on our route slips, like simple, easy things that are going to fix your practice because not only will you get higher production, but there's less chaos.

Like team members just know what to do. They're like, well, how do get that well operated? Like, there is the lean management that you can look at. It's really how do I break this down in the most simple, repeatable processes? And for me, I don't like yes have a form so people can follow it, but I'm big on like what can I have the software do for me? What can I do to set this up? So like block scheduling, it's very clear that we don't schedule within that. Now, do people have to follow the blocks? Yes.

So that we just have an accountability piece that we follow this through. And if you choose to schedule in the block, great. We have an audit system. Our OM has an audit system at the end of the week. Anyone who's scheduled inside those blocks gets to call that patient on Friday. Ding, ding, ding. Nobody wants to do that. Nobody, nobody breaks the blocks. We have an end-of-day checklist. It's reviewed every single day and it's turned back into our team members at the morning huddle. We have a morning huddle agenda that we follow, non-negotiable. We have a weekly meeting form. We have L10 meetings that we run with our teams.

These are systems that just make your practice run. And so for that, I want you just to see like systems are going to help create that mental space that you and your practice are craving. And so when you think about your team, think about fewer decisions that they have to make. That's going to give them more energy to serve patients, more energy to be able to like have that customer service, that care, rather than like, shoot, I don't know where I need to schedule this person. Or like, hey, what do I do when a patient calls for this? The goal is that people should be able to do this without you.

So I would ask your team like, what's one or two tasks that if we handled it differently every time, what's one of those tasks that we just every one of us does it a different way? And then let's build a system for that and all of us follow through on that. And then systems just, you know, they do create the scalability and the freedom. So I love to build like you and your vision, make sure your earnings and profit are there. And then we put systems into place, but it should be like systems that lead to scalability and scalability that leads to legacy for you. So you want growth, you want freedom, you want that. Systems are gonna help you do this.

Think if you went and opened up another practice today. Trust me, I did this. I had my first practice for nine months, opened up our second location. Yeah, that was super thrilling. And I thought I had systems. We did not have a system for how we scheduled. We did not have a system for how the doctors were scheduled. We did not have a system for how we check in, check out patients. We did not have a system for how we do sterilization. We did not have a system for how we do hygiene perio. Guess what? That became double. Remember that? Like double the flavor, double the fun, double, I think, I don't know, the flavor with double mint gum.

That's what happened. And it was double the stress, double the chaos, double the nonsense with double the practice ownership. So there's your little jingle for the day. So we have to look to see like, all right, whether you want to scale to multi-locations, whether you want to have less clinical days that you're working, systems are gonna create that scalability. But again, you can have a system written. So we build the system first, we train leaders on the systems. Then this is the third clutch piece is we have to have accountability around the system. I don't know how many teams roll out a billing procedure.

But they don't follow up with it. So then it just goes by the wayside. We create a scheduling protocol, but we don't audit the schedule to ensure it's working. You can't just have a system that has no follow through. It has to have accountability. Otherwise, you're always gonna just have a lot of words, a lot of pretty paper, and not get the results you want. So for me, I'm big on cadences like end of week checklist, end of month checklist. What needs to get done? What are the things that need to be reviewed and audited? Let's create that for you. And we have that for office managers, we have that for

l leaders. this is a big space to be able to have it. And so I think once a a good example of this is there's a doctor who wanted to have a vacation. This is a doctor I've worked with who I think has been in practice for about 20 years. And last year they went on a vacation for a month, a whole month. This doctor went off they went and did golf they went and raced cars. They had just the best time and the practices actually did better than they've ever done. And all the systems were intact. All the team was there.

Team knew what to do. There were a couple of things that the office manager was like, I don't know what to do, Kiera, like help me out. We worked through it. We created a system and a process. So in the future, those things are done. You'll never be able to have everything done. But if they know who to go to, they know where to go. But all the doctors were able to hit production, they were able to run their morning huddles, they were able to have of day checklists. That doctor was able to truly have a real vacation and the leaders were to keep the systems going. They didn't come back to fires and chaos and like the schedule broken.

They have these as systems, they have them as protocols, they have them with accountability, and the practice can continue running successfully without you there. That to me is the pinnacle of systems creating that scalability, that structure. Because, like again, going back to the beginning, where we're like, is it systems? Is it training? It's systems, then it's training, and then it's accountability. Systems train accountability. I wish I could say it sat, like the SAT.

systems accountability training but it's got to go the reverse so STA sorry maybe that's like the beginning of start STA figure R T if anybody wants to come up with an alliteration for me go for it but it's systems training accountability maybe then it's results the freedom there you go there's your start you're welcome so systems training accountability results the freedom okay there's your start acronym I hope that Alex has a good time with these show notes for you

But that's systems, that's scalability, that's repeatability, that's getting the results you want, but it's systems training accountability. That's how we start getting the freedom we want. That's how we start getting the results we want, that's how we start making the progress that we want, that's how we get started. So, what I would recommend is remembering that systems do create this consistency, systems do reduce stress, systems can create scalability and freedom if done correctly with the system written down, documented.

Then trained to the entire team and then held accountable that we actually follow through. And for me in that training piece, I like it to be anything that's automated. Put it on a route slip, put it in a note template, put it as an automated thing at the end of the week, create it to where it automatically emails out to everybody. And here's the checklist that we do. Whatever you gotta do, automate it as much as possible. that should be sk system training, automate and accountability. There you go. Results, the freedom. but really

People are so powerful and systems make that power repeatable. So if you want help on this, if you need help on this, if you want to go from where you are to where you know you could be, if you're sick of being in the rut that you've been in for so long, reach out. Because guess what? You don't need to keep solving the same problems over and over and over again. And when I look at Dental A

Team and the struggles I have, I have hired people that literally know where I need to go and they've been able to get me there. And then I've also had people that didn't know how to get there and it was a struggle for me.

So hire somebody who's been there, done that, and can actually like cut through the noise for you, get your team aligned, get things moving forward. That's what we do. So reach out [email protected]. This is your time to shine. This is your time not to stress anymore. And I can't wait to help you get the freedom, get the control that you're looking for. And systems are a great way to do it. So reach out [email protected]. And as always, thanks for listening. And I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.

Tiff and Kristy break down monthly financial controls that protect your practice's profit. These include identifying lag and lead measures, getting your supplies in check, creating a budget around the team's fun money, and more.

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Transcript:

Tiffanie (00:01)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners. Welcome back to the Dental A Team podcast. I am your host today, Tiffanie, and I am so excited to have Miss Kristy here with me. Kristy, you have been with us for quite some time. We have done a lot of podcasts together. and I truly love and appreciate your willingness to jump on. You just came from a coaching call, so thank you for hopping over here to me. I know your brain's a little busy with

Notes and getting everything wrapped up. We do a lot for our clients. So I know Kristy, you just spent an hour with a team or or doctor, and next steps are making sure your notes are wrapped up and you get a nice little email over to them and that's what our clients come to expect. So Kristy, how are you today? Thank you for serving our clients in coaching calls and serving our clients and our audience here on the podcast today. How are you?

DAT- Kristy (00:55)

I'm doing good. Happy to be here with you.

Tiffanie (00:58)

Awesome, thank you. And this guys is why I normally schedule them on Mondays and I am just feverishly working to get ahead. And Kristy graciously accepted my Tuesday invite to come podcast with me. So thank you, Kristy. Kristy, I know I always say this, I kind of handpick different podcast topics to make it the most fun for you ladies while you're here with me. So I get to talk about all of the pieces and I

Pick things that I think you guys are gonna enjoy the most. I think all of you, all of us consultants could speak to all of the topics that we have, but we all kind of gear towards favorites and things we love, things we do a lot of. And something that you do a lot of is you look for the money and finding it seems to be something that you enjoy, but also something you're just really, really good at. I know Kira speaks to that often as well. And today I wanted to talk a little bit more in-depth.

on profit because I know we talk we've spoken a lot on a lot of different podcasts about AR, bringing AR down, kind of how to find those controls within the practice, but making sure we're looking at monthly financial controls that protect the practice profit was something I wanted to chat with you about today. So how's that sound Kristy? Sound awesome. Awesome. Good. Let's

DAT- Kristy (02:16)

Sounds like a plan. Let's find the money.

Tiffanie (02:20)

find the money. So one thing I love that we like to do with our clients

And

something we do, I think, in our personal lives too is control what we can and then, you know, leave the rest for later. We we fix the rest later, we work on the rest later. And something that we can control is how much of our profit is being spent to a certain extent. So there's different spaces within the PL, within the practice spending that we do have control over that I think we don't spend enough time projecting and looking at to be able to know.

that we are profitable or that we can create that profit. And to me, when I see a topic that says monthly financial controls that protect practice profit, I think of budgeting. I think making sure we're working with it as a means of what we already have so that we're not overextending ourselves just like we do in our personal lives. So Kristy, you work with practices within their finances and their profit a lot. What are some areas that you work specifically on

helping them to protect their profit within those numbers.

DAT- Kristy (03:28)

Yeah. Well, I think it's important, Tiff, that we look at it routinely, number one, and understand what our fixed expenses are and then what are ones that we can actually maybe pull levers and see where we can budget and plan for. so many things. Again, just like we look at numbers inside of the practice, there's lag and lead measures, right?

I kind of look at the PL the same way. There's lag and lead measures. And so sometimes it's just being more proactive and really looking and planning ahead versus reactive and looking at the bank account to go, is there money?

Tiffanie (04:11)

Yeah, which I think we all do that at some point, right? Personally

DAT- Kristy (04:14)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (04:15)

and professionally. When you're looking at a PL, I love that lead measure, lag measure. PLs are full of lag measures and doctors will look back and gosh, I have a practice that only gets them quarterly, and I'm like, I don't know how we do this. Like it's so hard. We've got to be looking at these every month, like you said. So we're looking at those like lag measures. How do you pulse within that?

those lead measures. What are you using and what are you seeing as lead measures when you're looking at those numbers monthly?

DAT- Kristy (04:42)

Yeah, well, number one, we might be planning ahead for hiring a new teammate. What is that gonna cost us? And so wrapping that into our budgeting for the month, or maybe there's a new piece of equipment that we're looking to buy or a CE course we're going to, like looking ahead and planning for those expenses on a monthly basis so they're not a surprise to us when when they do hit.

Tiffanie (05:09)

That's brilliant. I love that. So making sure even if we know, hey, we're gonna try to bring on an associate this year. So that associate cost, a lot of dentists know look at the associate costs and start, you know, planning for thirty percent goes over here or twenty percent or whatever you're gonna do, goes over here, start putting that aside. But to your point, Kristy, for

Hiring, something that I think we fail to think about often when we bring on an associate is the rest of the team that may need to be brought on as well. So do we need more dental assistance for the associate? Do we need another treatment coordinator to work that schedule? Sometimes, even Kristy, there's hygiene, right? There's a hygiene hire that needs to come along with that associate. So it sounds like for you, you're looking at with that practice, okay, this is our current lag measure. This is our current what we can say is.

our usual and customary employee cost. And then as we add these other additional team members, we can expect that employee cost to become X dollars. And then turning that into being able to see what the what the production and collections costs need to be in order to cover that volume.

DAT- Kristy (06:19)

Yeah, you got it, tips spot on. And we can almost do that for anything that we're future pacing and planning, right? To see if it makes

Tiffanie (06:27)

Yeah.

DAT- Kristy (06:28)

sense even.

Tiffanie (06:29)

Yeah. And I as you're seeing as you're saying that too, you said planning for a a large equipment purchase. So with that, then you can look and say, okay, well, this is what our profit is or what we project our profit to be in the next coming months. Can we set aside or how much can we set aside out of that profit each month to be able to afford that large purchase rather than vice versa? I think a lot of practices

And people we say, I want or I need this, and they offer low percentage rates or no percentage rates. So instead of saving towards that thing this day and age, we just say, cool, let's get it, and I'll pay monthly to pay it off. So you're you're even thinking potentially flipping that mindset and saying, let's let's project and see when do we need to make this purchase? How much will it be? And how can we get the money for it?

DAT- Kristy (07:24)

Yeah, absolutely. And sometimes we do need to finance it, but also knowing what that's gonna look like too. I mean, maybe that makes more sense. Yeah,

Tiffanie (07:33)

Yeah.

DAT- Kristy (07:34)

agree with you, Tip. We need to kind of look at where our expenses have been, especially like with team, it's easy to look p back at the last 12 months or six months and say, this is where we've been running. You know, what's kind of funny about that is we just came off of a month where many of our clients had three payrolls.

And being able to budget for those ahead of time, right? So

Tiffanie (07:56)

Yeah.

DAT- Kristy (07:57)

planning ahead and knowing what we're looking at, but you have to be looking at it routinely.

Tiffanie (08:03)

Absolutely.

I totally agree with that. Quarterly, yearly does not, it just doesn't work. It does not, you're left in the dark so much. monthly financial control. So we can project, we can look and see, okay, where's our growth taking us? Do we need to prep and plan for any expenses? And I love your like even adding if we're adding debt, what does that added debt look like against the current PL? And then two.

I was thinking earlier about this, like what pieces do we use a lag measure for to like pull into this month for, like you said, a lead and a lag. So I know a lot of practices I have them working off of budgets, like to the max. And so I have obviously I think a lot of practices work off of an ordering budget, so a supply budget for the back office.

But I know a lot of them are like a little skewy too. They're kind of all over the place. Or they're like, it's fine. We're $3,000 over. And I'm like, $3,000 is like another percent or two sometimes. So making sure we stay in line with that, but projecting that and putting it on spreadsheets, right? So I have practices that have budgeting spreadsheets for that reason. So they know exactly how much money they have to spend. And I have dental assistants that find

that to be like a game. Like that inspires them to go find the best deals because they know they only have X amount of dollars because the spreadsheet told them and then they're entering all that data. What are you seeing outside of supply costs that you've got offices? I know I've got, you know, if you're doing some obscure things, like what are you having practices look at or have you in the past trying to gain that control maybe of their profit within the budgeting world outside of just the normal dental supplies?

DAT- Kristy (09:52)

Yeah, I love that you mentioned the dental supplies and doctors, if you're not letting your team do this, like do it. And and really I liken that Tiff to going to the grocery store without a list or with a list, right? Be

Tiffanie (10:05)

Mm. Yeah.

DAT- Kristy (10:06)

very intentional. And I really like to have my offices ordering twice a month and you

Tiffanie (10:12)

Mm-hmm.

DAT- Kristy (10:12)

set the time aside, you know, Wednesday the first week of the month and Wednesday the third week of the month or something similar.

So to your point there, but also the other things that I would look at, and it's coming up big right now, especially with insurances. How much are you spending? Are you taking the credit card payments and letting another 4% go out the door? You know, so many docs are complaining about their reimbursements, but yet you're allowing them to pay you with credit card. You know, that's

Tiffanie (10:41)

Yeah.

DAT- Kristy (10:42)

a big one that could save you.

Look at look at those. Hopefully you're entering the payments in your software and you're designating it to a payment type. Run that report and see what what how much did you take in on credit card insurance payments? And pretty much you might as well times it by four percent, you know, and see what you could

Tiffanie (11:02)

Yeah, yeah.

DAT- Kristy (11:03)

be saving. That's a huge one right now.

Tiffanie (11:06)

Yeah, I completely agree with you. That's massive. And a lot of practices are doing credit card payments for supplies in order to get points. And then they pay off the credit card. But I do see often practices that end up and we all do that, we do this in our personal life too. We're like, I'll get the points. But then when the payment rolls on, we're like, shoot, I didn't plan for that. So now we're paying it over time and we are adding that extra whatever percentage that APR might be per month to that pay to that balance.

DAT- Kristy (11:35)

Yeah. The other thing when you're talking supplies tip back in our day, we had to wait for things to come in, right? Now, truly, yeah. Now,

Tiffanie (11:42)

Yeah, weeks.

DAT- Kristy (11:44)

truly, most practices, they're getting it within a day or two. I I just I challenge you to reframe your mindset. Sometimes the salesperson comes in and they're like, buy three, get two free, or whatever, you know. It's like that's money sitting on your shelf. And many times, even if you

think you're gonna use it over time, that money could be worth more to you in the bank than sitting on the shelf.

Tiffanie (12:10)

Yeah,

that's a really good point. And I was thinking too as you were speaking, there's so many different areas of that like quick return. I have an office that we've dug into their finances many times and their supplies are just like out of this world. And I'm like, what the heck? They were up to like 15% one month. And I was like, guys, what are you ordering? Like what is are we remodeling? Are we restocking the entire office? Like, what did we order?

And when they went back, they're like, I don't know. So they go back through and we have them on budget spreadsheets, right? Well, they go back through, and what was happening is the office manager and the front office gal were every day like, we need toilet paper. we need, and they have prime. So prime is a phenomenal tool, very dangerous tool, right? It's dangerous in my own home.

DAT- Kristy (13:04)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (13:06)

So being able to at the click of a button get something tomorrow or sometimes even the same day because you need it, it's very easy to just keep that open and be like, order this, order this, order this. And the next thing you know, you've spent two, three, four times your budget because you're not paying attention to it being all lumped together. So I love your ordering two times a month on the budget because it avoids that, even if you have an Amazon cart full, right? I tell them that's fine.

Put it in the Amazon cart. If that's how you want to roll, put it in the Amazon cart and you press order on the order day and you see your total. Because how many times have we gone? I used to do this and I probably should do it again. I would throw stuff in the Amazon cart and then I'd wait a couple days. And if I remembered that I needed the thing, I'd go back and I'd order it.

DAT- Kristy (13:55)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (13:56)

Or I'd sometimes go back in and be like, I don't know why I thought I needed that. There are so many things that I did not end up ordering.

Because I just sat on it for a couple of days. So if we do that instead of the quick instant gratification, because to your point, no matter when you order, it's gonna be there in a couple days. It used to take weeks. It used to take like a month to get implant supplies. We had to schedule implants six to eight weeks out just to ensure we had the parts and the rep would still have to bring stuff. But it's not like

DAT- Kristy (14:25)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (14:26)

that anymore. Like there's zero competition when it comes to shipping rates, remember, or shipping

shipping days. Remember Henry Schein was like, we'll get it to you within the within the week, free shipping. And it

DAT- Kristy (14:36)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (14:37)

was like, yes, I'm using you because you have that, but now everybody has it. So I love that you mentioned that.

DAT- Kristy (14:42)

Yeah. I love that you said the

implant thing, Tiff, because I know even back in my day it was like, gosh, it's not here, and Doctor would spend seventy-five dollars to overnight it and I'm just looking at it like, man.

Tiffanie (14:54)

Yep.

DAT- Kristy (14:55)

So I hope that you guys are separating out your invoices and you're really scrutinizing those truly. Tiff, you know, when

Tiffanie (15:00)

Yeah. I agree.

DAT- Kristy (15:02)

you were talking, one of the other ones that's really hit me hard lately is ink and and heaven forbid, guys, if you still have the Pitney Bows.

postage machine. I challenge you to get rid of it yesterday because truly in this day and age with text to pay and I hope you're not sending postcards anymore and I hope you're not sending paper statements like the ink and the postage is just outrageous and what you're paying for those machines. Get get on, use your technology. We all have it.

Tiffanie (15:37)

I

agree. I loved my Pitney Bows machine when I was in office. That was a long time ago. But I was obsessed with that machine because it was so handy. But I think to your point now, even s paper statements I think are done online and a company prints it and ship and sends it. So we don't even like print at the office and touch them anymore. It's literally all done online. So yes, get rid of the Pitney Bows. I know they're really cute.

And they're super helpful. I was attached to mine, but we all gotta say goodbye at some point. I love that.

DAT- Kristy (16:10)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (16:12)

another area that I've seen practices like forget that they spent on is like team fun budgeting. So I just you know got my team Starbucks three, four, five times. Like I've walked into an office, I have a couple offices that do this. And if I come to your office, yes, I do enjoy this, so by all means create a budget around it.

I'll walk in and they're like, hey, we're putting a Starbucks order in, Tiff. What do you want? And I'm like, heck yeah, right? So I get on there and it's DoorDash or Uber Eats or whatever app that's gonna deliver to the office. And I'm like, bro, this is like $125 worth of Starbucks. Like that's I know I refill my app way too often and I need a budget for that, but those types of things go unnoticed. Again, because everything's just it's not cash, we're not seeing it, it's auto online.

And it's like right now. So I have a lot of practices. My practice actually with the Amazon situation, they have an Amazon bucket, but then they also have a team fund bucket. And so they

DAT- Kristy (17:15)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (17:15)

have a budget every month of you know profit and amount of profit that goes over to their team fund bucket and they use it or they bank it. And so they can get future items. But that was something that we had to create for that practice because their profit

was just getting eaten up because the office manager's like, well, she needed new shoes, you know? Like it's it's uniform, I'll yeah, it's not part of your uniform allowance though. So it was just like this weird spending habits. Are you seeing things like that too, where it's just these like one off yes team appreciation, but we're when we're not budgeting for it, that's where we get confused on the P and L.

DAT- Kristy (17:55)

Yeah. I th I think it's funny in listening to you talk. It's so funny how it mirrors our personal life. And again, you think about going to the grocery store. If I don't have a budget, all of a sudden, I mean, think of Costco. We walk out and it's like, man, that hurt. But if we have our

Tiffanie (18:11)

Yes today.

DAT- Kristy (18:12)

list and our budget that we're sticking in, we leave and and we know about what it's gonna be. So to your point, we love team fun, right? We love celebrating and doing that stuff, but

Yeah, have your budget and and even more so than that, like have your budget and let your team plan it. You know, let them

Tiffanie (18:31)

Yeah.

DAT- Kristy (18:31)

have fun with it. But but definitely know where you're spending and know what the budget is for it.

Tiffanie (18:40)

Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I actually have an office that just started a new kind of like a a kudos board, if you will, right? It's a big board and they write these kudos up there. They put the the post it sticky notes up there with so and so's name. And what they do now, instead of it being like this person got five, she gets a gift card or whatever, or we pulled her name, she gets a gift card, or he gets this. What the office manager decided to do was count up

all of the praise that's on the board at the end of the month and the number of sticky notes that she has for each one it's a dollar and then one but she has a rotating schedule so then someone is responsible for taking that pool of money and going and getting something fun for the team. And so

DAT- Kristy (19:28)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (19:29)

it could be a hundred dollars because they put a hundred sticky notes up there. She has she has no idea she just put the sticky notes up there and then they get that budget amount and they go

get lip glosses for the team or lunch or something with that money. And I just I thought that was really cool. But what she did was she budgeted that, right? She's like, okay, well we know what our profit is. And if I have a team allowance of X amount of dollars every month, it might roll over some months, may need more, et cetera. But she's created that budget around it as well.

DAT- Kristy (20:01)

Yeah, I love that. It it's it serves so many purposes, right? Keeping the culture alive, celebrating. They could even make it around core values, but also having that budget and it gives teams something to look forward to celebrating too. So

Tiffanie (20:17)

Yeah,

I agree. And give them a reason to put sticky notes up there. I'm like, heck, I'd

DAT- Kristy (20:20)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (20:20)

be up there all day putting sticky notes up there. You'd have to create a whole new budget.

But go ahead.

DAT- Kristy (20:25)

Yeah. Tiff, you mentioned

something else. You know, a lot of us have subscriptions or apps that we're using. I think

Tiffanie (20:32)

Yeah.

DAT- Kristy (20:32)

those at least quarterly, it's worth taking a look at and just seeing, are we using this anymore or not? I mean, yeah, dues and subscriptions is a big area for looking for some leaks there.

Tiffanie (20:48)

I totally agree. I totally agree. I know I I tell myself if it's an app or if it's a subscription that you don't want to look at, you probably need to look at it. So my Starbucks app that's very easy to be like, add 25 real quick, or I I usually add 15 or 20, but the other day it was like the 25 said get an extra star, right? And I was like, cool. What's I'm gonna add it anyways, start adding 25, start adding 30. And when you look back to see how many times you just

added whatever to that app to be able to buy from that store. And when I look and I'm like, would I have bought $125 worth of Starbucks if I were using cash? Probably not. Probably not. But it's so simple to add it to the app and spend. And that's their business, that's the whole business model. And it works and it's phenomenal. But when we're looking at monthly financial controls, I think that's a huge space, Kristy.

that we forget about, like how much are we paying for these subscriptions? And realistically, Prime, if you're not using the TV, you know, the movies, the TV shows, the whatever music, all of these other pieces, the Audible that comes with it. Like if you're not using those pieces, we're only using it for shipping, to your point earlier.

I don't know if you guys have checked this or not. I love Amazon. I'm not here to say don't use them or don't subscribe. I'm not here to say that. So Amazon don't come after us, but the shipping's like two or three days more than what it was going to be. And it really just makes you stop and think. So for your practices where you're off your your team members are just like click, click, click, it's really easy way. Those are really easy ways to your point, Kristy, to take a look at what are we actually spending.

And like you said, those are our monthly financial controls, controlling when we're ordering, how we're ordering, and how much our budget is in any perspective of the practice applies or not, really are those financial controls.

DAT- Kristy (22:52)

Yeah, I agree with you so much, Tiff. So take a look inside. It's not just the health of the practice inside. It's also looking at the health of the practice from the outward perspective too. And planning, right? Plan for

Tiffanie (23:04)

Yes.

DAT- Kristy (23:04)

it.

Tiffanie (23:05)

Yes. The planning is huge. If you're not planning, you're not budgeting, please by all means do it. And if you're here saying, I feel like it's sometimes like the blocked scheduling conversation, Kristy, where they're like, Well, I can't budget because I'm overspending and I know that. Like, no, still budget and look at how much you're overspending. You should still be saying five percent of last month's collections would be this amount to order supplies. And if you're ordering

Eight, nine, or ten percent of supplies because you're building, cool. Still be in the habit of budgeting, just like block scheduling. Well, Kristy, I can't do block scheduling because I just need patience on the schedule, and we've just started. Okay, but what if what if you put it on there and you got used to it while you're building? Same thing with the budget. Like just because you're spending more than what you should be.

Because maybe you need to right now doesn't mean you can't build the habit of at least looking at it and knowing what it should be.

DAT- Kristy (24:09)

I agree with you a thousand percent because even if we say five percent, if you're at eight right now and you come in at six or seven, it's still over five, but we're gonna it adds up, right? And you're gonna be pleasantly

Tiffanie (24:20)

A massive savings.

DAT- Kristy (24:21)

surprised at the end. So yeah.

Tiffanie (24:24)

Agreed.

Yeah, agreed. I love it. All right, action items. I love your perspective, Kristy, what you said looking at the PL's monthly and looking for the lag measures, which is everything a PL is, and the lead measures that are within that because they're there no matter what, your lead measures are in there as well. So take a look where are you budgeting, where are you not budgeting, and where are you off budget when you are budgeting? I think those are the three key pieces and look at the PL monthly.

Kristy, I knew this would be a really good one for us to ping and pong off of. Thank you so much for your words of wisdom and for being willing to jump in with me in the middle of your coaching call day.

DAT- Kristy (25:04)

Absolutely, it's a pleasure.

Tiffanie (25:06)

Awesome. All right, guys, go take a look at your PNLs. If you need help deciphering any of it, if you need help like putting it together, I know a lot of practices come to us and say, hey, I can't read this because it's confusing and my CPA now does it differently than my CPA before. Well, guess what? You have all the tools at your disposal to ask your CPA for what you want. So reach out to [email protected] and we are happy to help you get all of that in order, learn how to read the PNL, do all of the pieces and budget.

We are happy, happy, happy to help and leave us a five-star review. Let us know what you thought of this podcast and any tips or tricks you may have for others and any nuggets you took away from us. And just like always, we will catch you next time.

Kiera is joined by Dr. Rania Saleh, founder of Oryx Dental Software, a dental practice management platform that will streamline your practice's inner workings. The two talk about the journey of AI from when it first launched in dentistry to now, how AI can work in your practice as an accompaniment (not a replacement), the honest pros and cons of this intelligence, and a ton more.

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Transcript:

Kiera (00:01) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera, and today is an exciting innovative day. I am so excited for our guests that we have on here. Her and I met about three years ago in person, maybe even four. Gosh, I can't even remember. But I remember being in this event in Napa, and we were all hanging out in this lunch area, and there was this amazing woman who was talking about her AI innovative dental platform. And I was so fascinated by it. I went up to her, started asking her questions, and here we are four years later. So I've got

Dr. Rania, she is the founder of Oryx Dental Software. And some of you may have heard it. It's a new I remember when we were talking, she's like, it's an AI platform that's gonna like take over and help schedule and a lot of the tasks that offices struggle with. And she's a dentist. And so I loved her for those reasons because not only is she a dentist, so she gets your pain point, but she's also created a software that helps a ton. And she's here to talk about all things innovative AI. And I know so many dentists are just chomping at the bit because.

Dr. Rania, you know dentists are about like four, five, six years behind where you were. And so I'm super excited to have you here to talk about AI, talk about how AI is impacting dentistry, talk about how your platform's been able to help and serve. So Dr. Rania, welcome to the show today. How are you?

Dr. Rania Saleh (01:10) Very good. Thank you for having me.

Kiera (01:13) Course. So I gave a little bit of an intro to you. I don't know if you remember the lunch. I know we had a pre-show of how it was like that was so long ago and things have just upgraded and elevated since then. But give the listeners a little background to how you went from dentist, which I know you are still dentisting, to building this software to being like this AI innovative KOL in the industry. Kind of give us a little background of who you are and how we got to this point today.

Dr. Rania Saleh (01:38) Yeah, so I started out as a dentist. and I I was an associate like most of us start.

Then I went to the COI Center and I learned like a whole new way of doing dentistry. And at that point, I'm like, I'm gonna open my practice, fee for service, startup. and that happened in the middle of the global financial crisis. everyone thought I was crazy for doing it, but I went ahead with it and my practice started growing. I was doing great. it grew to multiple specialty, multi-location. and

I got pregnant with twins and I had to be put on bedrust.

Kiera (02:23) Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rania Saleh (02:24) And it

was a big, big shock for me because I had a lot of systems in my practice and I thought we were doing amazing. And at that point I wasn't practicing that many days. I had multiple associates. my practice started declining when I wasn't there. and this is when I realized that a lot of the systems were just in my head and not everyone was implementing those. and I started thinking, like, how do we get back on track? How do we stop losing?

Losing money, losing patients' confidence, getting bad reviews for the first time ever, all of that really hurt me. And this is how Oreg started.

Kiera (03:06) I

love it. Because I think, Dr. Rania, you can really speak to how a dentist feels, right? How many dentists, I think, as you were saying it. I'm sure they're saying, yes, me too. Like I can empathize. I know I've seen it with all the clients that we work with. Systems aren't systems, right? Standards are not standards. They're what we tolerate. It's what we have as processes. And I remember you saying, like, orgs basically is going to become these offices, office manager for them. And don't worry, office managers, we're not replacing you. We're just enhancing this for you.

But I remember I was so fascinated by your innovative way. And so I wanted to talk about what things can AI do from, you know, when your software first started to today, I feel like AI has just taken off, right? I was always curious what would take down like Google, right? Like coming with the internet was something in my lifetime that changed. And I was like, what's gonna be the next piece that is that innovative in our world? And I believe AI is here for that. So I'm just curious, like from what you've seen, those systems you said like they were living in your head.

What things have you seen that practices can do from like AI is not a replacement, I think, for clinical decision making. It can be a tool for it. But how are you recommending that we use AI and dental practices that you've seen from software to clinical to front office? What are some of the I wanted to like really just rift with you? This is my selfish side because I'm like,

Dr. Rania Saleh (04:18) Yeah.

Kiera (04:19) let's chat all things AI. And what are you seeing that are like the pros and the cons? Where can dentists start leaning into this? What are some of the best on the market right now?

You're one of the I love you were you're a you're a founding female in the industry and you're very innovative in it. So let's have a good rift on on AI and what you're seeing in that realm.

Dr. Rania Saleh (04:38) Yeah,

I mean, like AI touches every aspect, and I was so excited when something like this was created. And what was really good is with Oryx, we started with systems. What I said, like a lot of the systems were in my head, and we started like, how do we create a check-in checklist, a checkout checklist? How do we make everyone's life easy? So we made a lot of automations in the system very early on, but these automations still needed a human to intervene to be able to make it work.

And with the emergence of AI, we're like, my God, this whole workflow that works perfectly for us can now be automated. So although it was easy to manage, now it's a click of a button and the whole workflow of scheduling patients, having AI receptionists call and and get patients that were not scheduled, like this is a great innovation.

getting getting your clinical workflow, having to spend time with the patient. If you have your AI summarizing for you, we talk to our AI, and I always say that way, I want my AI receptionist to be the same as my best assistant. So I want I I don't want to learn a new language to speak to my AI. I want to speak as if I have Jessica or Jennifer or one of my best assistants and I'm just telling

them I'm gonna do a crown on this tooth, let's extract this tooth. I see a recession here and it's capturing all of this and charting it. So AI charting is like a game changer because now my assistants could be doing other stuff while I'm

doing my charting Perio AI is great. The same for imaging. It's a great tool to help us locate conditions, share our findings with the patients, and patients are just fascinating by that. So I don't see an aspect of the software where it doesn't touch it. Also like on the insurance collection, auto-attaching the narrative, anything that the insurance needs, all of that.

is built into the AI system and there's a lot of tools to do that. So I I really think people should try it to see what it's capable of. Some people are a bit scared to dip in there, but I it's a game changer for us.

Kiera (07:09) Yeah,

so let's talk about let's play devil's advocate. because I think so many people listening are sitting on that side of the fence of like, but we're in clinical. And so how do I know that this is HIPAA compliant? How do I know that this is safe? I think that that's a big, a big concern. And then the other concern is like, well, yes, it can help me attend. How many mistakes does it tend to make? How much more double checking? Because I know there's offices and like insurance verifications. Let's go back a few years. Insurance verification, I feel like insurance verification companies have popped.

Left and right. Like I feel like they're daisies in springtime. Like we just have a lot of them. And offices will say, I love it, but it's not accurate. So I don't trust it. And I'm just going to do it myself. So I think it's a twofold one. What are you finding for like AI with HIPAA and us being compliant in that realm? And then part B of that question would be: can I actually trust this and how much error? Like, are we talking 70% error, 80% error? And is it really helping my team or is it something where my team is kind of like,

turning a blind eye to it, thinking it's taking care of it, and then we're just getting a lot of mistakes we have to fix first. So first question is like let's talk about hip end compliance and making sure in the medical space that we are we're protected and safe on AI.

Dr. Rania Saleh (08:19) Yeah, I I would say like there's a lot of new AI companies every day. It's like a new name and people would tell me, Do you integrate with this? Have you heard of this? And if you don't have a BAA agreement

with the company you're working with, then it's not HIPAA compliant. So that's the very, very basic. Before you go with any AI or any company in healthcare, just make sure that it's HIPAA compliant, that it has all the certifications needed to administer AI. And I would say that's the bare minimum to to protect yourself, to protect your practice and to protect your patients. W with the errors, it's like

Anything that you do, the AI is not a hundred percent accurate, so you still have to check. But for me, I think if if I'm charting, could my assistant make a mistake and put the crown on number twelve instead of number thirteen? It happens in real life. So there's always that human in the loop where I'm gonna stop, double check, make sure. If it's taking ninety percent of my work, if it creates that summary but there's these two sentences that I don't like, I'm gonna read it. I'm not just signing.

blindly progress note. But it's a lot of help. Like for example, when we do our claims, we're doing an automatic attachment.

I would say that's a 99% success rate. The systems are great at detecting which radiographs they need to attach. But if you take your radiographs the wrong way, if you're putting a lower molar in the upper molar slot, then that might go wrong to the insurance. But even if you had Mary at the front sending that x-ray and it's in the slot of number three, she will probably send that x-ray. So it's not you you still need.

The human to verify, but it's removing a lot of the redundant work.

Kiera (10:17) Mm-hmm.

Which I think that that's a good call out, right? I think that that's a a smart path to go down. I think it's a yes, but you're not wrong. Like mistakes happen in your day-to-day anyway with humans. Like, let's cut out half of the time. I I was reading up on some AI how it can like go through all your emails and respond to 60 emails in 20 minutes and have it about 80% success rate compared to what a normal human would do. And I thought about this and I was like, wow.

60 emails, 20 minutes, 80% success rate. I think that that's like a risk I'm willing to try because it frees up so much manpower for things that can't be done by AI, like blocking calendars or running interference and other things or talking to patients like right now. Who knows? There will probably be a robot someday that's gonna be. I know I had one office that was doing a robot a few years ago, but I think Dr. Aenia, what do you feel? a lot of practices like Orix is awesome, right? ORX has so many great things. There's a lot of AI in it.

But a lot of offices don't want to switch softwares. I feel like switching CPAs and software is probably dentists like two biggest headaches that they just don't want to do. So, what are some tips like that a dentist? Like, what are some of the things you've seen in dentistry of AI that you might bring to the practice if they're not quite ready to do a full conversion of software? And then I do want to talk more of like what ORX can do. And like you've mentioned a few things. But if I am a if I'm a dentist, I do not want to switch my software.

I love my dendrics, I love my eagle soft, I love my Open Dental. And I'm like, I'm not changing. It's too much change. We already have all of our systems processes, but I do want to start dipping my toes into AI. What have you found? What are some of the successful things that you've found that you feel like every office should be doing this? And maybe some of the ones you've heard on the market that are some of the top notch. And this is as of today, right? We're gonna timestamp it because things are shifting and changing constantly. So just realize like as of today, this is the best. What would you recommend for that practice?

Dr. Rania Saleh (12:08) So I I would say like imaging, period charting, all of that could have a direct impact on the clinical workflow. AI receptionists, some people are not comfortable with that, but like maybe after hours when no one is answering the phone anyway. Don't give your best leads to the AI receptionist. But if you're not gonna answer these calls on the weekend, this would be a great way to start dipping your toe. I think

People are shifting more to a comprehensive software like Oryx, and we see it more and more because you need all this data to be interconnected. If you're on EagleSoft or one of the on-prem older software, you have so many point solution and you cannot create that amazing workflow with that.

And I feel AI is that tipping point for us as a software company. So maybe five years ago, I used to hear about like, why would I shift to Oryx? Why would I shift to a cloud software? It's not worth all the hassle. I have I have Dentrix and I have like six add-ons that are working so well, and my life is good. Why this disruption? So cloud is not enough of an incentive for people to shift.

But now with on the

Kiera (13:24) I agree.

Dr. Rania Saleh (13:24) cloud features and on the interconnectivity, we're seeing a lot more people moving even from paper charts straight to AI. And it's just

Kiera (13:32) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Dr. Rania Saleh (13:35) amazing.

Kiera (13:37) So let's talk about, I know some of the critics of a one software are like when they're I won't say the name of some of the software. People know I don't need to to bring them up. But some of the complaints I've heard from a one-stop shop is, well, I like some of those add-ons that I'm able to put in other softwares because not every software is gonna nail everything 100%, right? So like just because we're really good at maybe we're great at the receptionist and we're great at the clinical, but we're not so good at our rub.

Revenue cycle management. So every software is going to have, right? It's like a Toyota car out there. Like I can have really great la longevity and liability. Maybe you don't love the aesthetics of it. And so do you guys have any plug-ons and add-ons? Are there ways that things can integrate in? Because I know a lot of people are scared to switch to these all-in-one platforms. Because if I don't like something about it, there's nothing I can do to incorporate or change or modify, unlike some of the other softwares that are out there on the market.

I don't like this, there's a bunch of add-ons that can integrate. And I found like with integrations, integrating into certain cloud-based all-in-one software, there's no integrations that they can have. So I think people are concerned about that. What are your thoughts around that when it comes to the softwares and the platforms and being able to make sure it's again, it's not gonna hit every single thing perfectly. It will do a lot of great things. How do we, how do we circumvent that and feel confident moving forward?

Dr. Rania Saleh (14:58) Yeah, look the way we think about it is is it something we want to create? Is it easy to create? Is it gonna give a lot of value to our user? And does it make sense to have it only in Oryx or do we have the add-on?

For example, like image annotation. We integrate with Pearl and Overjet. They're the best in the market at annotating x-rays.

Kiera (15:18) They are.

Dr. Rania Saleh (15:19) We're not gonna redo this work, we're not gonna get into all the certifications. They had to go through. So we have this integration and we always believe in choice. So if someone really loves overjet, they could stay with that. If someone wants Pearl, they could go with Pearl.

And that's our approach to think. If it's something very minimal in the early days, people would say, Can you please integrate with this? And we have it for free in our system. We do the integration, then they don't use it. And it's not good for us and it's not good for the vendor. So like membership plans are so easy in Oryx. We never integrate it with anyone because it integrates into directly into the patient's ledger, into the credit card processor. It's a whole system built together that makes a lot

more sense being inside of Oryx and a third-party integration does not make sense. So in the areas where it makes sense to integrate with other companies, we do it. In some areas we don't because users are happy with what they have.

Kiera (16:21) Got it. No, that's helpful. What would you say are some of the like top things that people would consider in oryx that would make it as a switch for them to move over?

Dr. Rania Saleh (16:32) the clinical was always our strongest suit and it's

What makes people want to switch because you're able to give the patient a great exam and you're able to have the best relationship with the patient. Our patient report is very detailed. It has the patient's photos, it has a summary of their findings. It's the biggest source of referral for most offices. So a lot of users consider us for our clinical and the patient experience.

Kiera (17:03) Got it. And can you break down specifically what are in that clinical? Like I'm looking for like the nitty-gritty. So it's like it helps us with the exam annotation. It helps with charting it, make sure that it sends the follow-ups, that it does the period. Like, what exactly is that? Because I think for a lot of buyers out there and a lot of people looking at AI, I think that they're just like trying to figure out it's like, why? Why should I switch? Like, that sounds great, but like you said, my life is good, my life is easy right now. So, what are some of those things? I feel like AI is the

Life that we don't even understand that we're missing, right? Like I can have this great life, but if I don't see that Bora Bora and the four seasons exist, I don't even know that that's something that should be on my radar of a bucket list item. So what are some of those items that might just expand doctor's horizons of like, hey, I never realized that a software could do this, or I never realized that AI could do this. Like, let's do a little teaser sampler for doctors listening today of like.

What are the possibilities that maybe they're not even imagining are real that are happening today for other offices?

Dr. Rania Saleh (18:04) So like the whole experience starts with the patient booking online or talking to the AI receptionist, getting the scheduler and getting scheduled. And then they get the forms. The forms are extremely engaging, but we also ask

Kiera (18:18) Okay, sorry, Dr. Rania.

I'm gonna like just interrupt and I'm gonna back it up. So when I'm scheduling online, just clarifying, can they schedule all appointments or is it like new patients and profis? Cause I know in some of the other scheduling online platforms, they could only schedule certain types of procedures. So I'm just curious, like when they're scheduling, can it be all types of appointments or what are kind of the the logistics with that scheduling? And then we're gonna go into paperwork. Cause I'm like, hold on, break it down for me. I need a few more specifics over here.

Dr. Rania Saleh (18:42) Yeah.

No, it could be anything that the office wants. so if you want to expose all your scheduler, all your days with the online receptionist or with the AI receptionist, you can choose to do that. If you want treatment or not, you can decide what days, what times of the day, what providers are gonna take these online appointments or get appointments with the receptionist.

so that part makes it super easy for patients to schedule and then they get an invitation to complete very engaging forms. and with these forms, we're asking a lot of questions, but patients love to complete them because they're like, that's really thorough. Like my doc I want to give my doctor that information.

Very rarely someone would complain that the forms are long, but for the most part, people really like saying, Yes, I have I get food packed in here. No one ever asked me this. So we're gathering as much information as we can, and we give a summary to the dentist and also an explanation of what that would mean. So we have the latest evidence embedded into Oryx. someone comes with a rare genetic disease. It already tells them what that means, what you should be careful.

Careful of how it could affect their teeth. And patients used to think, my god, my dentist is so smart. I just read it before they get in. And I'm like, you know, that puts you at a higher risk of this or that. And they're like, my doctor never told me this. so it makes the first engagement with the patient amazing because you know so much about them. If someone is

Telling you that I have a click in my jaw joint and you're doing the TMJ exam, it's going to remind you. So now you have that extra engagement with the patient saying, You mentioned that you have this click on the right hand side. I cannot feel it right now. Tell me more about it. And that's what's creating that report. So the exam is extremely structured. It takes about seven minutes to complete. At the end of the exam, the patient gets a report showing their findings, their own photos, their own radiographs.

So before they commit to a treatment, it's explaining to them like your periostage three. And that's why we want to have this periodontal treatment. We're going to have the scaling, we're going to have the maintenance. And patients understand, and they're not going to Google and saying, asking, like, is SRP a scan? They understand why they need that extra treatment.

Kiera (21:20) I see. Okay, so it sounds like we go from being able to schedule online. I do love comprehensive forms that are saying specific things because that's also going to help us TF treatment. And also, like you said, I love making our doctors look incredible. Then when they come back, we're able to explain it, talk to them. And then on the clinical side, from things I've heard and like just repeating back, make sure I didn't miss any of the like features that are smart to be thinking about. I think the periocharding is a big complaint for a lot of hygienists.

I have heard that a lot of them don't work super well. So I've heard like a lot of hygienists complain. How does your software or what are some of the softwares you've seen? Like, how do we actually fix that for them? And then also the same thing with doctor side, because I feel like a lot of it is that being able to hear it and being able to translate it into the software correctly. I've heard from a lot of clinicians that that is, it sounds so great, but actually in practicality, it's really hard. Can you speak to that of how you guys have been able to overcome that or softwares you've seen?

to make that to where it's like not the annoyance. Like it's I feel like so many people think it's gonna solve their day and they're like, it's just so annoying. It's always broken and it's not working and it did the wrong numbers for me. How does that work for you?

Dr. Rania Saleh (22:28) So w we had to train the models and retrain them and train them specifically to dental terminology, to specific numbers, to listen to thousands of hours of recording, and hygienists don't all talk the same way, don't say the teeth numbers the same way. So every few weeks we we come up with a new model that makes it more accurate. and it's not an easy task, it's not easy for us, it's not easy for anyone. We have office.

That says, like, you have the best period charting on the market. We love it. It's amazing. It never makes a mistake. And another office that has some issues. And it's like, you have to go figure

Kiera (23:08) Darn it.

Dr. Rania Saleh (23:09) out is it the microphone? Is it the model? And then we start enhancing, and we realize, some people talk about it this way, and they jump into different directions. And

Kiera (23:19) Mm.

Dr. Rania Saleh (23:20) that's why it's not catching it. So I think from the very early days of Oryx, we've had a very strong commitment to making the software.

The best, and that never changed. From creating the exams with the COIS Center, from putting the latest clinical evidence and committing to updating that evidence yearly. I don't think anyone does this much work. The same thing with any feature that you have, especially on the clinical side, where you commit a lot of dev hours to keep enhancing our features.

Kiera (23:57) That's incredible. All right, Dr. Rania, I have like peppered you on so many questions. Thank you. What have I missed? What are things that you feel like, hey, Kiera, the listeners need to know about this, whether it's AI, whether it's platform specific, whether it's just like innovations in dentistry, what's something that I should have asked you that I didn't ask you that you're like, I feel like all dentists, like if I could go and help the the world of dentistry in the best way possible, what would you, what would you tell our listeners or what things do you feel like we need to explore a bit more today as we wrap up?

Dr. Rania Saleh (24:26) I think the future is really, really exciting if if some dentists have not explored any of the AI tools that are available on the market, like start with the easiest one. start with having AI write your emails. I I don't think I can write an email anymore.

Kiera (24:45) Which one do you use?

I'm gonna interject because everyone's like, Great, but what one are you using? Who are you using for emails to write them?

Dr. Rania Saleh (24:50) So

I use Claude a lot and I also use Gemini. Like if I'm quickly writing an email, I just answer it and just polish and it looks amazing. and

Kiera (25:00) Yep.

Dr. Rania Saleh (25:01) like for for more deeper conversations, I typically use Claude. So start with like the general models and try it out and then

th think how this can impact your life and then how it can impact your practice and then consider a software that is very AI forward.

Kiera (25:22) Amazing. And then just break it down for us. I love that because it's like start easy, start with the emails. Gemini or Claude, you guys have it. I think she mentioned two for X-rays. I agree. Pearl and Overjet, two fantastic ones to just help with that clinical diagnosis to kind of just dip your toes into it. I know within our Dental A Team community and in-person masterminds and virtual masterminds, we are always talking about what are the AI innovation tools, what are dentists using right now, who's got the best. And I think like that peer group of being able to ask consistently.

Walk us through specifics of like orcs. If I'm curious and I want to like find out more, I'm like, hey, maybe this could be a better software for me. Maybe like it is time for me to like broach it. what can people do to get more information on this Dr. Rania?

Dr. Rania Saleh (26:04) Yeah, they can go at OryxDental.com and book a demo. We have an amazing team that would do a consultation with them, see what's right for their practice as a the pro tier, as a the AI tier, the automate tier, and and walk them through all the capabilities of Oryx.

Kiera (26:24) I love that. And something I love about you is that you are a dentist. And so I can feel the passion bleed through you of just wanting to to serve dentists to make their life easier, to make the to make the practice and the patient experience. I think all of us could feel that today of like it is that patient experience. We want these patients to have a great and then I love that you're like, and we help the dentist look great and they don't have to do any of the extra work for it. I think that that just speaks volumes to the passion and the the pieces that you bring to the table. So I'm so grateful we were able to hang out, guys. Go.

try something. I feel like kind of like offices that didn't want to get into the internet. They didn't want they were like, we'll just stick in the yellow pages. People will find me in the yellow pages. It's been tried and true. I feel like that's kind of like the internet now. And if you're not getting into AI, you're sitting a little bit in those yellow pages. And so let's make sure that we're able to be easier. We're taking advantage of these tools. You don't have to go a hundred percent all in, but I do encourage, I mean how long has Oreg's been in business, Dr. Mania? Let's just like for reference for everybody, how long have you guys been around?

Dr. Rania Saleh (27:23) Since twenty

sixteen.

Kiera (27:25) 2016, so 10 years she's had an AI software working out there. And we're like, AI is brand new, because chat just came out two years ago. no, she's been doing this much, much longer than that. Ten years in the making, 10 years in refinement, 10 years in being able to be there. It's time if you have it. So like book the call with orcs, even if it's just to learn more. get on Claude and Gemini and write emails. I love it. You're like, I don't even write any more emails.

But really, Dr. Rania, it was so great to have you. And I just truly appreciate what you're doing for dentistry, your knowledge on AI, the passion you bring to our profession and knowing that we have people like you that jumped into realms to make to make dentistry better and are really spearheading that from a space of true commitment to the dentists that are at hand. So thank you for being here today.

Dr. Rania Saleh (28:07) Thank you for having me.

Kiera (28:09) Of course. All right, for all of you listening, take the AI challenge, do something. And then I always love a good pen pal, I love a good accountability partner. So email me [email protected]. I'd love to hear what's the AI challenge you took on. What's something? And hey, depending upon how many results we get, we might even be sharing these on social. So be sure to watch there of the best of the best that we're hearing from you as listeners. Reach out [email protected]. And as always, thanks for listening. And we'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.

This DAT podcast episode is a fan favorite!

Danny with Swell is on the pod! In this episode, Kiera chats with Danny about Google reviews, Google reviews, Google reviews — a very necessary part of having a practice. Danny shares what practices can do to get their name out in front of potential patients; what not to say in your review responses; why bad reviews are actually good; how to get patients to leave the best kind of review; and a ton more!

Episode resources:

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Transcript:

Kiera Dent (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera. And today we are bringing you something so special. I am so excited because this is one of our most popular episodes from the archives. Whether you're hearing this for the first time or catching it again, I am so excited because it's jam packed with a ton of takeaways that you can start using right now in your practice. We have released thousands, literally thousands of episodes. And I wanted to start bringing a few of these amazing episodes back for you. So I hope you enjoy. And as always, thanks for listening and I'll catch you next time.

on the Dental A Team podcast.

speaker-0 (00:32) and you guys, I am so pumped for today's podcast. I have one of my favorite, favorite, favorite, favorite companies. I met them when they very first started. We were just starting, so I think we kind of have a little like duo friendship that way. But these people are amazing. And if you aren't utilizing them, if you haven't figured out how to boost your Google reviews, you are in for the best treat. So I'm so pumped to bring on Danny. Danny works with Swell. If you guys haven't heard about Swell,

You need to. because in my opinion, the reason they're the best is because they do it so well. That's how I remember swell. they're just the best at getting Google reviews and I'm excited. Danny's got some cool things to kind of help practices, even if you are utilizing swell, even boost those Google reviews more. So Danny, welcome to the show. How are you today?

speaker-1 (01:14) Thank you kindly. I'm doing well, just here in snowy Utah, living the dream.

speaker-0 (01:19) I love it. I love it. We actually pre-show connected on the fact that Danny may have gone to school with my husband. So we're waiting till post show to see if they know each other. I feel like it's like who's behind the door? My husband wasn't free. but it's kind of fun that you're in Utah. But Danny, kind of for those who don't know about Swell, Zeke and I I literally remember being in an office. I was in Alabama consulting a practice and they needed help with Google reviews. So I looked up, I had been told

About swell. I was on a flight and somebody had mentioned swell. And so, and you guys were like early, early, early on. I was early on in my career and I remember I like just picked up the phone. This is when you guys used to not have a great branding. It was like a well. And I'm like, I don't understand what this is about. And I called and Zeke answered and I said, Hey, I'm Kiera Dent with the Dental A Team. I heard you guys are great. I want to utilize you in a practice and see if you're good. What do I need to do? And that's honestly how Zeke and I got connected. And Zeke has just been awesome.

and the practices that I put you guys in, no joke, I think the best one the worst one did thirty Google reviews in one month. The best one did eighty five Google reviews in one month. And so it was super fun for me to have immediate social proof and great testimonial. And since then, Zeke has told me many times, Kiera, any event you go to, please tell me we will be there because you're a little walking advertisement for us, which I am because you guys do it so well. So that's kind of how I met you guys, how I got introduced. But kinda tell us like

what the scope of swell is and how you guys even got started.

speaker-1 (02:50) Yeah, so Swell actually kind of fell backward into dentistry, initially was hoping to help small pharmacy groups survive against the big boys, but then stumbled into dentistry and realized that there was a great fit in that a there were many systems that were currently attempting to help practices get reviews. A lot of them was just the five digit short code.

less branded or personalized messages just with a link and then a few different steps that they had to do in order to leave a review. But Swell just said, well, we need to make it super easy, super convenient, and with as few steps as possible for patients to leave a review. So went out and integrated with all of the practice management softwares, stayed hyper focused on driving the most reviews possible for practices.

And really swell as we know it today with without the whale that you're talking about, new branding. We think we're a little bit sexier and agree. And you know, our our design and and the aesthetic of our product, our branding, all of that is really great. But most importantly, we're just super effective at getting practices, reviews to the sites that matter, mostly Google and then Facebook, Healthgrades, other sites as well. Totally. yeah, that's that's swell in a nutshell.

Primarily we know reviews are the tip of the spear, but then Swell built a little bit out and said, hey, reviews help you stand out online, but then you need to connect conveniently and convert these patients. And so we've built out some tools like web chat and and different things after the fact, but it all starts with the reviews.

speaker-0 (04:27) For sure. And I will say, I am a swell, we have been a swell user. So swell, up until we joined with HubSpot, we've actually utilized Swell's chat on our website and it was awesome. We loved it. It was so easy and it actually started building so much traction. And literally the only reason we don't have swell on ours is because HubSpot integrates and it just pulls all the information. But guys, if I didn't have HubSpot, I would still be

Wispwell. You guys were fantastic. You helped with our Google reviews. We still utilize you guys for Google reviews. but kind of like so offices, obviously. I hope if you don't know, we are in 2022. You've got to have a presence on Google. Like, no ifs, ands, or buts. Everybody finds you on the website. That is to me your website, and being on Google is your resume to the world. And if it's not there, you're not going to be found these days unless you are attracting a different clientele than the current millennials, Gen X, Gen Z.

Whome coming in, like that's what they're looking for. So, Danny, kind of walk us through. You were telling me some crazy cool algorithms. I also love that you guys have always only been with Google because I was never a huge fan of some other platforms. and so I love that you guys have just stayed primarily, primarily Google because Google doesn't take away reviews unlike some other platforms. but kind of just tell us some of the algorithms you guys have come up with because you guys, that's honestly why I think you do it so well, is because you've stayed very niche, you've stayed very focused.

And you guys crank Google reviews. So kind of just walk us through some of the things you guys do differently that practices can do to increase those Google reviews.

speaker-1 (05:58) Yeah. Well, just I think one thing that's really important for practices to understand is that Google reviews to the Google My Business page affect local and broader searches. So, like you were saying, Kiera, it all starts with an online search. Dentist near me, affordable dentist, cosmetic dentists, all on for, whatever the case. And if practices aren't showing up in that initial Google search, it's referred to as the Map Pack. then

They're being overlooked and potentially missing out on a patient that could have searched them online through social proof, read through very positive reviews, and said, Great, this'll do. I'll I'll make an appointment. so Google is tracking several different things. one is the location of the searcher, that's pretty intuitive. It's just how far away is the business from where that patient is searching. there's proximity, and then there's something that's called authority. So that's how well.

Are they known online? Are they do they have SEO? Is their website getting lots of hits? this is less important for the review side. but the two important things that we like to focus on is number one, Google is constantly tracking the star rating of the practice and then the frequency or the recency that they're receiving reviews to the Google My Business page. So

Essentially, we think that if you can raise your star rating or maintain a high rating and have fresh recent reviews coming to the page with responses as well, because responses are factored into that freshness or recency, those pages are more, excuse me, those practices are more likely to show up front and center when a patient within proximity searches for a dentist or or anything of that nature, they'll they'll pop up. One other thing you and I spoke about were the keywords.

This is something that practices. Those of you who are already using Swell, I want you to listen closely because this is a great way to increase in terms of keywords and boost your chances of being front and center on Google. If a patient, when when you're sending out your review request, you could actually in the verbiage say, please describe your experience with us. Now the patient is able to say whatever they want based on HIPAA. They can say, I went in.

To Dr. Lenary, I got an implant, an all-on-forecase, you know, they they changed my life. And then when I respond to that as the practice, I know I can't say the patient's name or or anything tying specifically to their actual appointment, but I can say we love to do all on four cases, we love to place implants, we love to do veneers, we love Invisalign and those keywords. So that will be the patient saying it.

And the practice saying it and those keywords, those are that's a big deal with Google and their rankings as far as the current algorithm goes. And so that's something I'm always telling practices to do is ask patients to be as descriptive as possible. And then within HIPAA, you can't, you know, you have to walk a fine line, but you can say, we love placing implants, we love doing Invisalign. And now when patients are searching Invisalign Dentists or All On Four or Implant Dentists near me.

they're they're much more likely to be ranking higher than other practices who are just saying, thanks for your review, or the patient just said, love the practice, would will come back for life. They can use those keywords to start ranking much higher now as Google has factored that in.

speaker-0 (09:28) Interesting. So Danny, you talked about this a lot and I actually don't know. So I'm gonna ask you since you're the guru on it, when people do respond, because I do have a lot of practices who don't respond. So that was really helpful to hear that that keeps you more relevant. Also, podcast listeners, this is why I'm telling you guys to please go leave us go like reviews on the podcast because just like Danny said, yes, we have quite a few reviews from you guys. Thank you, but we have to stay relevant. So if we're not getting reviews every single month.

The podcast doesn't actually stay as relevant. It's not ranked as high. So, guys, if you haven't left Dental A Team a five-star review, because hello, he just said reviews and star statuses. So it's the same thing within the podcast world as well. So, guys, that's why I'm always asking, like, please, if you haven't done so, because it makes our podcast relevant. Same thing with your practices. So that's how you can help the Dental A Team out that gives so much value to you. And also what you guys can do for your practices.

Unfortunately for me on the podcast, I can't actually respond to any of the reviews. The way they have it set up, you can't respond to podcast reviews. but Danny, when you talked about responding on the Google reviews for your practice, it does keep you relevant, but you also mentioned HIPAA. So what are some of the things not to do on those reviews so people can remain HIPAA compliant on their review responses?

speaker-1 (10:41) Yeah, well and I I I have to say that in terms of HIPAA compliance, this is something that I don't know all the ins and outs.

speaker-0 (10:50) Agreed. So go check with your coup your HR people guys. So we'll tell you like the basics, but go confirm this is correct.

speaker-1 (10:57) Yeah, for sure. It really just comes down to acknowledging a patient in the practice. You know, you you can't say, we loved placing for you, or we love having you as a patient in the practice. it's it needs to be a little bit more generic, like, thank you so much for that feedback. We love, we always strive to deliver a wonderful experience and we love placing implants as opposed to.

Thank you for being our patient. And we loved placing that implant, and the results have been phenomenal. follow up with us if there's any problems. You know, it it's really just it's basically taking it a layer removed and just being a little bit more general in terms of you can say the services that you like to offer, the experience that you like to provide, but you can't actually make it so that.

The public knows that that patient is a patient of record and that you treated X, Y, and Z in their mouth.

speaker-0 (12:01) Got it. So can can you do one, not the other? You can there's no way you can say that this patient, like, thank you so much for coming in. We love you as a patient. That's like a hard pass no, because it'd be acknowledging that that patient's coming to your practice. Is that correct?

speaker-1 (12:15) That is my understanding. Yeah, that people have gotten in trouble or practices have gotten in trouble by being, you know, just trying to be personal, but they were a little too personal and there are certain things that you can't acknowledge through the the Google response.

speaker-0 (12:31) Sure. Which makes sense. So I think like guys just err on the side of safety. But what Danny was saying is like thank you so much for this feedback. We absolutely love treating every patient with the greatest experience possible. Like those things you can say. And if they do talk about a service that you did, it sounds like Danny, what you're trying to say on this with the keywords is to reemphasize basically the exact same thing that they said with that keyword. So implants, new patient experience, sleep apnea, ortho,

Anything like that, because I'm trying to think of what people would be would be searching or those keywords that would be coming up. But be clever and creative on those responses to capitalize on what they said and then what you're responding back with to get a double. It sounds like it's like a two for one deal. Like they gave you the review. You can actually maximize those keywords with your response. Is that correct?

speaker-1 (13:19) Yeah, absolutely. And once again, just encouraging those descriptive responses. I've had practices and and even close dental friends that have come to me and said, How can we avoid people just going and leaving us a five star and not saying anything? And I just say, Ask, you know, make it clear in your text message that should be highly personalized to begin with, because Swell is sending a branded

it's either the logo, it's a photo of your team. It's it's even we can even scrape the schedule of the provider, the operatory. And if there were 30 hygiene appointments, four extractions, and three implants, we can take every individual provider and intuitively swap in a photo of the person that they met with. Clever. Calling them by name, the the provider by name. And then in that text request, you could say, please click the link, take the 30 seconds to leave us feedback, be as descriptive as possible, as this helps.

the general public know about our practice and this is how we gain new patients. You know, that's not necessarily an invite that you're going to send, but you can find a way to craft a message like that and people will start leaving you a lot of feedback and then you can mirror those responses. Or even if they're not being descriptive about specific procedures, you could find a way to thread that in. Experience certain procedures, Invisalign implants all on four. I mean

Lots of practices really harp on this and and they're ranking higher and seeing a lot of new patient influx because of it.

speaker-0 (14:48) Is

so brilliant, Danny. And I hope offices are listening to this because to me, I feel like that text message you send out to your patients is the bait you're sending out. And if they're not giving you back what you want, change it up. Like try different things. Danny, is there a way? Like my marketing brain's clicking on me. Can you A B test different responses? Or would I just have to try like one month of this type of a text the next month with another type of text verbiage to try and A B test which one will give me better response rates?

speaker-1 (15:17) Yeah, well that's that's a great question. So we actually that's absolutely possible through Swell. we actually keep the click data on every individual template. So how many sends, how many clicks, how many opens, how many responses. So essentially, like you're saying, and it's not always you just plug this in and it's it's magic, but we we love that to be the case. But if not, the fine-tuning is absolutely there because we have the click data on every individual response.

We can track these reviews all the way from invite sent to landed on Google because of our integration with Google. So we we can really give them some intel in terms of what photos, what logo, what verbiage, when to send it, all of all of the which sites are performing the best. It's it's all there in the swell dash. Cool.

speaker-0 (16:06) And then and guys I think it's to me I feel like somebody listening to this, you're probably one of two people. One's like, Wow, that's way too much information, I'm not going to do that. The other person's like, That's so cool, I'm totally going to do this And what I would hope is like swell is insanely affordable. Like so ridiculously inexpensive, especially Dental A Team like

Guys, Zeke and I got together at the beginning of this whole thing. So you better believe he has taken care of Dental A Team clients and still continues to do so. So anytime Dental A Team people come through, guys, you are taking care of with white glove and you get the like, I don't think there's any other company that gets as low of pricing as we do. And Zeke has been so amazing to maintain that. So guys, like definitely say you heard from on the podcast. But what I think is so cool is like to me, that marketing budget is so inexpensive for it.

And we get so many Google reviews for it. And if you'll get your team and you'll change up just these text message responses and to see what response you get back. So I guess the text message verbiage to see the responses coming in. To me, I feel like it's almost like almost not quite there, free new patient marketing. Like it's very expensive to bring on a new patient. But if like you were saying, you can rank higher in Google, you can capitalize on those keywords, you can get more people to respond, more people are going to find you.

just by Google searching. So to me, I feel like this would be a high priority project that I would definitely try and work on over the next couple of months to see if I can get our rankings to come higher. Again, it's not like an immediate instantaneous thing. It will take a little bit of time to grow in those rankings. But gosh, Danny, I heard from somebody and I'm not going to quote it because I could be totally off, but do you guys kind of have an average of based on the number of patients you see on average, how many Google reviews you guys tend to see?

with that information, just so people can kind of see if they did utilize swell, how many average reviews they should be getting per month based on the patient numbers they see.

speaker-1 (17:57) Yeah, well, just like you said with two the two example practices, you put this in one was 30 and one was 80. So funny enough, we we do think that based on all of the accounts that we've activated, that around 30 percent of the active patient base that they're seeing, which is usually trumping whatever they have going on. but then on the high end, you know, like I've got a friend in Dallas, Chad Duplanus. I I think you know Chad Duplanus, I'm not sure.

but we plug, I I searched Chad on Google last year and he had 10 reviews on his Google My Business page. And I was like, Chad, people know you all over the country in dentistry. You're you're a speaker well renowned. I'm sure the experience in your practice is great. What's going on? He had a system. Funny enough, it was a company that I used to be with that was soliciting his reviews. And I said, do me a favor, plug in swell and

Now, after a year of using us, he's over 450 on Google. I mean, it it was he was texting me on the weekend saying, I got seven, seven, five star reviews last night. High five, you know, and he's responding to all of them personally through our mobile app. So obviously, in his case, it it's a much larger percentage, but we typically think that we can we can convert around 30 percent of their active patient base if they're seeing.

You know, it doesn't matter the number of patients. If they have a patient flow, we can take a certain percentage and convert those into online reviews, which will lead to new patients and just higher rankings.

speaker-0 (19:32) It's so cool. Because at the end of the day, like what's so cool about this is guys, like, again, I see this as like, I don't know. I'm I must be really lazy, guys. I'm a Taurus, like by nature, I'm more of a lazy individual, I think. but I I prefer the term efficient. To me, I'm like, okay, if I exert just a little bit of effort on these Google reviews, utilize a great software, I can get so many more new patients in easier than having to build

newsletters and flyers and social media campaigns, like that stuff takes freaking work. Yet alone, like I could literally implement swell, change up my text message and send it out to my patients and then check the data that's coming back to me and respond to these reviews. Like to me, that I guess this is just like my ROI on my time. How much how much ROI will I get for it like I to me, honestly, I've I've done swell, I've worked in practices. I'm talking less than an hour a month. Like it takes no time to respond to these reviews.

It's so easy to do. You guys have such a great software for it that I'm like, okay, so I do an hour of input of time and I'm getting so many new patients back from it. Why would I not want to exert my time there? Even if I was at five hours a month, to me, that's way like I have done social media campaigns. That sucker takes me a good like solid five hours minimum to just like write posts for can like social media posts and then you've got to do your story and then you've got to respond to people and those people don't always convert.

So just thinking of like ROI on time, I feel like it's a no brainer for practices to do it. So I am curious because I know I hear this a lot with Swell, and I want to know your guys' take on it. Some people have told me, Kiera, I'm nervous to use Swell because they don't let me filter the reviews that come through. They won't let me. So if I have a patient who's bad, they're gonna post about me and there's no way for me to control it. Whereas other review softwares will allow me to control those reviews coming through. So Danny.

Please like respond. I you guys get this, I'm sure, for lots of people. I think it's great that you don't let them filter them because one, I think it forces the practice to actually be a great practice because you should always have a five star experience. But what's your what's your response to that as to like being able to filter the reviews?

speaker-1 (21:41) Well, so the first response is that that is actually to stay in alignment with Google, number one, in that you cannot gate reviews. If you gate reviews, meaning if you're saying, how was your experience one to five? And then they go four and five-star reviews are then asked to leave a review, and one, two, and three-star responses are then taken for internal feedback. If Google finds out about that, they flag that and they pull those down.

Because Google is trying to have the most authentic real experience or a real depiction of the practice. But then to, you know, if we have notoriously grumpy patients, we've actually made a great effort to make sure that it's simple and easy for practices to avoid even sending that patient a request. So with three different practice management softwares, Dentrix, EagleSoft, and Open Dental, you can write pound DND, do not disturb, into the chart notes for that patient, and it will not.

When we sync with the software, it won't send that patient a response. Or because we're syncing with all of the practice management data, you can go through and and see all of your patients in a list form and just click a simple box that says block and they won't receive a review request. So we know that there are individuals who will gripe, but really even one of our other comments to this is that negative reviews are not the end of the world. Agreed.

It's one, they come in, you're notified through SWEL in real time, you respond to that review. Once again, with HIPAA, don't get into an online argument, but just say, so sorry, there's a misunderstanding. Thank you for your feedback. We'll reach out to you privately. Now the general public, we have to remember we're not these reviews aren't for the practice. They're for the public to get an idea of what it's like to do business with the practice. So when they see a negative review or response from the owner, it was handled well.

That can actually turn into a plus, but then they don't need to really worry about that because with the freshness and the re frequency that reviews are coming in, that negative review will be buried in no time.

speaker-0 (23:48) For sure. And I think like to your point, I've actually had a lot of luckily I haven't had a lot of them. So I should like quantify this. but when I have had negative reviews, I have contacted those patients. I call them. I don't respond. Some people are afraid to call them. Guys, even in the Dental A Team, I had somebody give us some negative feedback. I was so freaking thankful for I called those people and I like wanted to hug them and high five them and I told them thank you so much. two of them became clients. So it's crazy that you can like

That is the best feedback. And also, like you said, Danny, guys, if you're getting negative reviews, please do an internal check on your practice. Like I think that that is one of the best things that could ever happen to you because it can show you where your systems are low, where your patient experience is low, maybe where your dentistry needs to be improved. Like please thank those people. I I think a good life-changing book for me was Raving Fans. And it talked about like the worst thing that can ever happen to a business is for that customer not to give you feedback.

Because if they don't give you feedback, they have no confidence that you will ever change. If they are willing to complain to you, tell you how you can improve, they have trust and confidence in you that something can be done to make this better, which is why they're willing to be vulnerable and share. So yes, the five stars feed our dopamine ego and they want us to be great. But gosh, those like one and two stars, please, please utilize a software that allows them to come through. Please, like allow your practice to get better because I think it's so hard in today's day and age.

To actually get honest feedback, to find out how we can improve. So that's why I'm always pro. I'm like, no, I love that swell doesn't let you sift through and only choose the positives. Cause one, it's false and you're having a false impression of your practice. And two, you're not able to give yourself an opportunity to be better. When your neck is on the line and you know every person that's can leave you a review is going to, yes, of course, there's a few people that no matter what you do will never be happy. So please don't send them a review link, like save yourself that headache.

But like when every single patient you know could get a review link, you actually are gonna act as a a more elite practice. You'll raise the standards of you'll raise the standards of your whole practice and you're going to raise the experience as well. So I think like I love that you guys do that. I'm such a huge proponent of what you guys do. I love that you gave some tips of how they can utilize those keywords in their responses. So Danny, I've just like been the biggest fan of you guys. Not only are you amazing with your technology, you've stayed niche.

I told Danny pre-show, I'm like, I'm so glad you stayed niche because some companies are awesome and they take off and they're great at the beginning and then they go downhill when they become bigger and more popular. And swell has not, you guys have stayed consistent, you've maintained and you've only branched out in areas where you genuinely are making a bigger impact versus like trying to detour. So I love that about you. So Danny, if people are interested, they want to boost those Google reviews, try you guys out. I love that you're month to month as well.

How can they connect with you? What's the best way for them to get swell in their practice?

speaker-1 (26:45) Well, I believe given our relationship with Dental A Team, we have a link that will go out in the show notes. so they're we'd love to have you click and take 10, 15, 20 minutes. It's you know, it's not a long-winded demo. We think that seeing is believing. Let us show you how we differ from other systems. We're not trying to rip and replace other other systems in your practice, but we're a hyper focused bolt-on that plays nicely with others.

We sit side by side. So click the link, or you can go to [email protected]. Excuse me, send an email to [email protected], or you can visit our website, SwellCx.com. But the most important thing, like Kiera said, she's she's been with Swell from the beginning, and the pricing really is phenomenal for Dental A Team members and podcast listeners. So make sure to mention Kiera, Dental A Team, and we will take care of you with the discount.

And they can also reach out to me personally if they want. I won't necessarily do the demo, but I can put you in touch. Danny [email protected]. I'd love to hear from you and get you in touch with our team.

speaker-0 (27:56) Cool. I love it. And guys, I'm not kidding. Like when we say like this pricing doesn't exist at all anymore. And Zeke has been so awesome to just like maintain the relationship he and I set up. I think we're like pushing almost three, four years in a relationship together. So I just adore Swell. Danny, I appreciate you so much. You guys are fantastic. You're gonna be at our Dental A Team Summit. I'm excited for you guys to be there. Literally, I feel like Swell and Dental A Team were a good peanut butter jelly, and we like duo around the world together because

I think what you guys do is just awesome. I love who you guys are as a company. I love what you guys stand for. And I love that you get results. I'm all about results. Like any person I work with, I want them to ensure results. So guys, just try it out. Even if you're with a review company, like test it out, see. I like to compare and they're month to month. So you could try it with some of your patients going through swell, some of your patients going through another one and just see. But at the end of the day, I don't care what you do, who you use, two things I hope you take away from this is one.

Boost those Google reviews because it's the easiest way and the way of the future for you to be noticed and seen. And number two, make sure your practice is truly five star worthy. I think that's the biggest takeaway I have from today. So Danny, thank you for being on here. Thanks for being part of Swell. Super appreciate you guys and all that you do.

speaker-1 (29:07) Yeah. Well, thanks so much. We love you and the team and look forward to the summit here shortly.

Kiera Dent (29:11) I hope you all loved today's episode as much as I did. It is crazy to think that this many episodes have been released since we started the Dental A Team Podcast. And I started looking to say, my goodness, our listeners need to be reminded of some of the things they may have learned a year ago or two years ago or five years ago, because so many things in our practices weren't relevant back then when we heard them, but they are relevant today. And I would be doing you a huge disservice if I didn't re-release some of these episodes for you to remember, to refine.

to optimize and really truly if you ever need a topic or you're like, my gosh, I wonder if the Dental A Team has anything like this, go onto our website, TheDentalATeam.com, click on our podcast tab and you can literally search any topic. So whether it's overhead or hiring or firing or team morale or engagement or case acceptance or hygiene or associate onboarding or whatever it is, we have so many episodes for you. And so I am going to intentionally be

re-releasing some of the top best episodes for you, pulling back some of the ones that I needed to remember, some of the things that I feel for you to really, really relearn right now and to re-remember, or if it's the first time, welcome. I'm so happy you're listening to it, but I hope you truly enjoyed today's episode. I hope that you share this with somebody. I hope that you go and implement today because we only have one day. We only get today. And so making today the best that it possibly can be. If we can help you in any way, shape or form, reach out [email protected].

And as always, thanks for listening and we'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.

Perio does not get the attention it deserves. Tiff and Kristy discuss why periodontal health is such an underutilized area in dental practices, and give specific tips to bridge the gap through diagnosis, case acceptance, and follow-up — for everyone from your hygienists all the way to the front office.

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Transcript:

Tiffanie (00:00)

Hello Dental A Team listeners. I am back with you today on the podcast hosting. This is Tiffanie and I'm just so excited to be here. I have one of my favorite podcasting guests with me today, one of our prized consultants. You guys know I bring the consultant team here to you, and I love them all dearly. and I have a few that just

Calm me. And Kristy, you're one of them. I know I say it all the time. And and the practices who are lucky enough to work with you know what I'm talking about when I say you calm. So thank you for being here. I value you and I appreciate you and I'm excited for this topic, first of all. But secondly, how are you doing? It's like peak monsoon season. It's you know in my books a month and a half late for a normal what Arizona should have monsoons, but we're finally getting rain, which is huge.

DAT- Kristy (00:52)

I know.

Tiffanie (00:53)

And that's

totally different. And when this drops, it'll be like a month from now. So they're gonna be like, What are you guys even talking about? But how is the end of your summer turning out? I'm pretty excited over here.

DAT- Kristy (01:04)

Yeah, it's been a good summer. the storms I had forgotten like intensity of it last night definitely had me up a few times and felt the house rumble, but thank goodness it's it's all good. It's all good. Just a fun light show. Yeah.

Tiffanie (01:19)

Yeah. It was crazy, right? I said it was like

a it was like being at a concert. Like the it just wouldn't stop. And it's funny you say that you forgot how intense they were because for the listeners here, Kristy lived here in her younger years, moved away for a while, and now she's back with us. But Kristy, that in between space, we haven't had storms like this in a really long time. So when it happened night before last in the backyard is like

crazy and it's coming in all wild and it's beautiful and I'm just like sitting there in awe like a child. Aaron, my fiance, is like, this is crazy. And I'm like, this is my childhood. This is what

DAT- Kristy (01:57)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (01:58)

the storms are supposed to be like. We just we haven't had them in I'm not even kidding, probably eight years. It's been

DAT- Kristy (02:06)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (02:06)

so long since we've had good storms.

DAT- Kristy (02:10)

That's crazy. Well, I'm glad they're happening now. Like you said, we do need the rain. It it got it got kind of intense, but hey, I'll take it over the tornadoes and the other stuff happening. So yeah. Yeah.

Tiffanie (02:20)

I know. I know. I agree. This is why I live in Arizona. For the beautiful

storms and the no like natural disasters. I'll take the heat. I love it.

DAT- Kristy (02:29)

Agree. Agree.

And if you haven't smelt the desert when it rains, like nothing like it, right?

Tiffanie (02:35)

It really is. It's incredible.

It's incredible. I love where we live. So we are blessed. I love Arizona and people think I'm crazy for that, but I really, really do. It's my happy place.

DAT- Kristy (02:45)

great.

Tiffanie (02:46)

Well, off topic of weather, which I could talk Arizona all day long. I wanted to dig into some systems with you today, Kristy. And we've done a podcast, we just recorded a podcast on finances. So if you haven't found that one, go find it.

But

this one I really wanted to dig into a couple of in office systems that I think are still being missed. There's still some gaps in a few places. And one of those places I think is perio. I think that it's still not getting the attention that it deserves. in in the office, chair side, and then when the patient leaves, like I just think it's still not a hot topic.

for practices. Kristy, am I off base or do you feel like do you feel the same or similar?

DAT- Kristy (03:36)

Yeah, no, I feel 100% the same, Tiff. And and though I didn't grow up being a hygienist, I definitely have a soft spot for them and a passion for oral wellness. So 1000% I agree with you. And it's one of those areas in the practice that I think there's a lot of low-hanging fruit and and opportunity. And to my hygiene friends, please hear me. Like I know you're treating the disease. We just

We just need to approach it a little bit differently so that you're doing well by the patient and the practice.

Tiffanie (04:12)

Yeah, I agree. And I think to that point, Kristy, I hear you. And I hear a lot of hygienists say, you know, well, I am I'm doing it, I'm just not coding it correctly. And my question is, and this is maybe a red button, I don't know, hot topic, I'm not a hygienist, right? So I will say that loud and clear, I'm not a hygienist, but based on my scheduling knowledge and the treatment planning that I've done.

I know that when you do diagnose it and code it correctly, you want extra time. But if we're not doing that and we're not getting the extra time, like how are we really eradicating it and helping the patient? And I think there's still this financial stigma tied to it. And I get it. I I understand that. It's not easy to it's not easy to tell somebody they need to pay you money.

Especially when you're the one doing the service. I get that. We sit in that situation sometimes and it's not easy. And I also know that I trust what I'm paying for when I'm paying what I should be, if that makes sense. Like if I'm if I'm told, you know, I'm I'm I look up and I find this doctor who's supposed to be great and yeah, they're they cost more than the doctor down the street.

Who's offering discounts or or what have you, but says he gives the same value and the same treatment, like how you value the treatment that you're giving is perceived by the other, the other side. So

DAT- Kristy (05:53)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (05:54)

a long-winded way of saying stop discounting yourself and your services, because it's not actually helping anything. it makes me sad. Like, gosh, I want patients to know.

That they're getting the treatment that they deserve. And imagine if they went for one second somewhere else in an emergency out of town and somebody said saw something and said something, and they're like, Wait, what? What do you mean there's something there? I just had XYZ. That would make me so much more sad as a practitioner than to have to tell someone, hey, there's more going on here. You're you're older.

I'm older, our bodies are changing, you know, our cells are regenerating, you're taking different medications, whatever it may be, things change every single day. And I'd rather have that conversation than the conversation of, yeah, but it's fine, I'm watching it. You know? Yeah.

DAT- Kristy (06:55)

yeah.

Yeah, what are you watching? It's kind of funny that you say that because Tiff, I was listening to a thing for Pearl AI, and I remember the gentleman talking about his wife had gone to have her yearly exam done and a doctor was like, Wait, you're too young for this, like breast cancer is not that early. We'll we'll just watch this. And it was like a ding ding ding to him, like, what do you

Watch what? We're not watching anything

when it comes to our health, right? So yeah, I I agree with you, Tiff. And I think it's kind of funny listening to you because I was literally just talking to a team about how we create a lot of our outcomes. And I think part of it is it's well, I know most of it starts with us and how we create the verbiage around it to create value for what we're doing. And hygiene's no different. You know, we get really upset because

They're the first ones that fall off the schedule, technically. I mean, I challenge anybody to go back and look at last month's cancellations, and majority of them are going to be hygiene patients. And so, with that being said, I do think we do ourselves a disservice by saying it's just your cleaning. You guys, none of our hygienists are maids. Like they're oral wellness people. And truly nowadays, I mean, back when we started, we didn't know all the all the connections, Tiff, but now.

When you guys can can put some of those eye-opening stats to Pereo Health, and we know that gum disease can be prevented or stopped from progressing. we have a due diligence to treat our patients different. So truly, number one, I challenge people to not call it a cleaning and start creating value for your hygienist. Like

They are oral therapists and a lot of disease starts in the mouth. Like I'm have a huge passion for it. A lot of disease starts in the mouth. And when we can make those connections and approach it differently, because we know all of our dental people are caring people. And when we approach it from that caring aspect, we're gonna get a different outcome when it comes to treating our patients and having them value those services.

Tiffanie (09:15)

Yeah, I think adding to that beautiful statement is you said when we care about them, right? So we're adding value, we're ca we actually care about the human. I think that flows into also making sure that we're doing the due diligence of following up when patients say no in the office. Cause I do think that space is still really disregarded in treatment care follow up. So when we're doing follow up calls.

I know the implants are important. I know the crowns are important. I know the doctor side treatment is important. But how often are we calling the patients who need the periodontal services? I know when I was in office, we we would be like, hygiene's got openings. Pull the periolist. Like, why weren't they already getting calls? Why weren't they just on our call list, but they weren't? Because it's not as important or air quotes around that, guys.

to us as the dental side, the doctor's treatment is. And I think that's still an underutilized area of the practice when it comes to periodontal health.

DAT- Kristy (10:23)

Yeah, I agree with you, Tiff. And sometimes, you know, well, our patients are no different than us as humans. And and sometimes we do question things, right? And if patients walk out the door and whatever excuse they give, because typically there's a few of them that we all heard, right? when we don't follow up, we're we're really sending a message that maybe it doesn't matter because well, was it true? Did I really need it? 'Cause

They didn't call me. They didn't care to follow up and say it was important, you know?

Tiffanie (10:58)

Yeah.

DAT- Kristy (10:59)

So even the lack of of doing nothing, or how many times have you heard a team member say, Well, call us when you're ready? You know, they're

Tiffanie (11:06)

Uh-huh.

DAT- Kristy (11:08)

never gonna be ready. Let we need to care enough to share and invest in their health and show them that it's worth caring about, right?

Tiffanie (11:18)

I agree. I agree. I remember and I and it still happens. I've been in offices consulting when I've seen this happen that patients will call back and they're like team members like, I can't believe this. They called back and they're like, Can I get my regular cleaning? You had SRP diagnosed. You can't have a regular cleaning. And it's like I remember having those conversations of like, Are you crazy? Right. But what did I do leading up to that to ensure the understanding that you actually really do need this type of a cleaning?

And we need to do our services correctly and get you scheduled for it because patients will be like, Well, it's been six months since I saw them, whether I had a cleaning or not. Time to get back in, get my exam, and then they'll they'll slide back in. And so many patients I think go under the radar and do get scheduled back in the recare. Right. And Kristy, I don't know if you've seen it or not, but I've seen it where then they get the cleaning and they had

DAT- Kristy (12:12)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (12:12)

the burial I had been diagnosed last time, but today they got the cleaning.

And they're like, Yeah, I knew it. I knew I was right. I knew I didn't really need that.

DAT- Kristy (12:20)

Yeah, 100% Tiff. And and I truly think again, a lot of it starts with us, right? Even down to, you know, when we're diagnosing the period, what are we talking about? Are we saying, hey, there's a little bleeding here? Or are you saying, my gosh, I'm concerned with the amount of infection I'm seeing today? I think when we start calling it something different, it's going to create more attention with our patients and awareness because.

They just repeat our same words. She said it was just a little bleeding. And you

Tiffanie (12:49)

And yeah.

DAT- Kristy (12:51)

guys, when it comes to perio, bleeding might be common, but it's not normal, right? We wouldn't walk around with any other part of our body bleeding and just ignore it and go about our day. So yeah.

Tiffanie (13:03)

good point

i've i and i've had patients myself be like well i said it was a small filling i think it can wait right and i'm like those words like i

DAT- Kristy (13:11)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (13:11)

can't overcome this as you're speaking Kristy something i'm thinking because you're you're talking verbiage and you're saying make sure we're educating the patients the patients understand that they need it and i'm thinking too like it goes from the hygienist and the doctor right hygiene hygiene sees it doctor then comes in confirms the diagnosis we say great you need period

Then it goes up front and the the treatment coordinator prints out the sheet of paper and they say, Okay, for that deep cleaning it's going to be. But then I'm thinking, Kristy, what does the front office team know? What's their education on Perio? Because I

DAT- Kristy (13:46)

Sure.

Tiffanie (13:47)

think we focus so much on the hygiene diagnosing correctly, the patient using the right words so that the patient accepts it. And then there's not a lot of education from what I've seen at least.

for and even in my experience for the front office to know what is this disease, right? I remember for years I just repeated that we can't get rid of periodontal disease. We can only arrest the situation. And so we have to do our due diligence and bring you back in every three to four months to ensure that it doesn't get out of control again, but it never goes away. I just regurgitated that because that's what I was told to say, right? But

DAT- Kristy (14:29)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (14:29)

what did we learn

taking CE as a front office team. Like we don't we can't even get into those courses without a license. So how are the teams training to ensure that everyone knows what Perio is?

DAT- Kristy (14:42)

I think it's a good point, Tiff. And to be honest with you, we both started the conversation that we're not hygienist. And again, we're not teaching people how to scrape teeth, but we can certainly

Tiffanie (14:52)

No.

DAT- Kristy (14:53)

pass on the information and the knowledge that we're learning. So ideally when we're coaching in teams, having each other cross-reference or learn, sharing with them the knowledge is powerful because we support each other.

Yeah, maybe the hygienist is the one treating the disease, but the treatment coordinator is supporting you in getting the patient over the hump of a financial obstacle, right? So having

Tiffanie (15:21)

Yeah.

DAT- Kristy (15:21)

them know the knowledge to be able to support you enough and hold those conversations is huge. So don't think just because it's perio, we don't need to involve everybody else. It it's hugely important because they pay play a supporting role.

to the hygienist.

Tiffanie (15:40)

Absolutely. And I'm thinking as you're speaking too, like, imagine a hygienist. And again, we're not hygienists, so I'm just putting myself in this seat. But I'm thinking, I've seen this patient or this practice has seen this patient for X number of years, and I've maybe just been kind of like helping them get by, which is great. And now it's to the point that like I can't continue helping you get by. And I have to have this really hard conversation with you. What if?

I have the support of the front office team who's like, yeah, we will get them over the financial hor hurdles because we understand how important it is. Because flip side of that, I can imagine it's gotta be really scary to be the only one carrying that burden. Because sometimes that front office team doesn't and necessarily like get it, we'll say in air quotes. And so they're like, hey, you do know their insurance isn't gonna cover this, right? And now the hygienist is carrying an extra burden.

And imagine if we all had the similar educational pieces and mindset on a disease that we were all empowered to support one another through that. I wonder if and this is theoretical, right? I don't know, but I wonder if that would be supportive for a hygienist and maybe change the game on some perio conversations in some practices.

DAT- Kristy (17:04)

my gosh, I think without a doubt, Tip. And and I like how you pushed it on the other side, not just the hygiene perspective, but they also need to hear the conversations from the admin team. And truly, you know, again, we got into dentistry because we care about the health of our patients. And when we can put that at the forefront, we're both trying to achieve the same thing. It's just coming at it from a different supporting role, if you will. And I think they they do mesh together and go hand in hand. So

Even your hygienist needs to hear about how the admin team te talks about finances, right? So they

Tiffanie (17:40)

Yeah.

DAT- Kristy (17:41)

can play the supporting role in that too, to say, hey, I I totally get it. Great news is you have insurance. Bad news is they may not cover as much, right? Yet

Tiffanie (17:52)

Yeah.

DAT- Kristy (17:53)

I know we care about you as a person, your insurance, you're just a number to them, right? That they will never care about your health more than we do, right?

Tiffanie (18:02)

Yeah.

Yeah. Well I think this opened up a huge can of worms and it opened up something I know that we work on with practices, but maybe not to the extent even of the the depth of this podcast today, Kristy. So I love this because we're both gonna go on a tangent with it now. But it's making me think of how much cross training we do in the practice. But we I just think that's a huge space. Dentistry has lacked. Perio and hygiene in general is

just

an island. Like we let them be on their own little island and they they're okay with it most of the time, right? They like their island. They're like, no, leave stay out of my department. It's totally fine. But what if we pulled that island closer and started to cross train more, educate more, and have more value added for the patient because we are all a team. I know, you know, periodontal health is the literally the foundation. And I I know my doctor used to say that it was like

building a house on top of an uneven foundation, it just it won't

DAT- Kristy (19:03)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (19:03)

hold. It'll end up cracking and breaking. So putting an implant or a crown or anything into a rocky foundation, the longevity is shortened. And making sure that we remember those things because without that foundation, nothing else can be as great as it could be if it were different.

DAT- Kristy (19:23)

Yeah, I think part of and I love hearing you say that, Tiff, because I always say it's like building a house on quicksand, right? And so,

Tiffanie (19:30)

Yeah.

DAT- Kristy (19:31)

but you know, with that, having those type of verbiage that we all tend to speak as a team and we all are speaking to that same language, I think is also such a benefit for our patients to be hearing that same tonality and messaging throughout. And so it is very important that we we

Don't leave hygiene on a gap, right? And and on their own island, so to speak. We all funnel back to that. And truly it is the foundation, right? But finding words to speak to our patients, we in dentistry know it and we talk it with each other, but sometimes I hate to say dumb it down, but speaking more in layman's terms so they understand. It's like the quicksand or the termites in the foundation. And I want to get you the pretty smile, but let's make sure it's there forever because.

This is the foundation, right? How are we having those conversations? And then how are we supporting our hygienist with those

Tiffanie (20:29)

Yeah.

DAT- Kristy (20:30)

conversations?

Tiffanie (20:31)

Yeah. I love that. I think periosystem gaps in general in the diagnosis, in the tree in the case acceptance, and then in the follow up as well. And I I really do think we hit something hard today with really just doing it together, supporting. I love that support and making sure that everyone's on the same page and training as a team. We do my suggestion is perio.

program. Like make sure your period programs and your period protocols are in place. They're foundational, that they're utilized, everyone's using them the same. And make sure that everyone knows them. Like everyone in the practice knows what they are because that's so key to have everyone cross-trained in this kind of at least verbiage and these conversations. It's so key in ensuring the patient's health. So I would say Kristy today, I I think hands down

It's address your period protocols, make sure that

DAT- Kristy (21:32)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (21:32)

they're systematic, everyone's using them, and cross-train the whole team. Dental assistants, front office, dentists, everyone. I think your periode departments, my hygienists who are listening today, Kristy, I love how you said my hygiene friends, go advocate for your periodontal systems. Go advocate for your period programs and schedule a freaking meeting. Put it on the books.

Get everyone in the practice together and you step up and teach the team something that they might not know.

DAT- Kristy (22:04)

I agree with you, Tiff. And to be honest with you, maybe step one is you as a hygiene department get together and pull out what is our hygiene standard, right? What when do we all agree that we are gonna intervene in the disease process and create some clarity around that? Because again, too, sometimes I see it with hygienists where one's calling it one thing, but the other one's not. And again, we can we can get in trouble with that because

You have a husband and wife come in as new patients and they see different hygienists, then they start going home and comparing. So start with you guys and get really solid on what is our philosophy and when do we intervene in the disease process and then roll it out to team. And I I love Tiff that you empowered them to be the ones to do it. And yeah, I that it's fun. It's fun. And then you'll align the team and

Have questions and answers. How do you answer when we speak to this? Or, you know, any of those things that come up so we all are speaking that same language.

Tiffanie (23:08)

Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. I love it. That's our wrap. That's our action item. Kristy, thank you so much. This was this was fun. I love that we go into it thinking like we have a plan, you know, but something sparks and we just we always expand and come up with new fun tools for ourselves as well. So Kristy, thank you for taking that adventure with me today.

DAT- Kristy (23:29)

Absolutely, my pleasure. Have fun.

Tiffanie (23:31)

Thanks. Awesome. All

right, guys. Go do the things. You heard Kristy. If you were driving while you were listening to this, I want you to get where you're going, replay this soccer because I really think there's a few gems in there that a lot of you guys can go implement. So go do the things Kristy said to do. Drop us a five-star review as always. Hi Janus who are listening, please give us some some feedback. Give us some yes, this is great. We want a team who supports us, whatever that looks like.

in your reviews, doctors go through and read those, they'll see them too, and they need to feel empowerment as well. So go do the things, [email protected]. We are here to support you. We love you guys and we will catch you next time.

Kiera and Kristy share tips on having financial conversations with patients, including the type of mindset to adopt so it's not so intimidating, key language to use to get everyone on the same page, the power of a litmus test, and more.

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Transcript:

Kiera (00:00)

Hello, Dental A Team

listeners. This is Kiera, and today's a lucky day. I'm so excited. I get one of my faves podcasting with me today. I get the one and only Kristy Treasure. If you don't know Kristy, she's one of our dynamite consultants and she just drives offices to success faster than most people I've ever met. She's absolutely dynamite. And today we're gonna be talking about how to have financial conversations with patients. This is right up her alley. Things she's obsessed about talking about. Kristy, welcome to the show. How are you today?

DAT- Kristy (00:26)

Good, thank you. Pleasure pleasure to be here.

Kiera (00:29)

I love it. Kristy, it's so fun to talk. You love talking all things money, numbers, metrics. Like that's your jam. How did you even get into numbers and metrics, Kristy? Like, walk us through for those of you who don't know Kristy, she was an office manager. She's been like every position in the practice. She grew this exponentially large practice. But for some reason, her niche is numbers. So, Kristy, how did you get into numbers? Like, why are you this like obsessive woman about numbers? How did that like passion and obsession come to be for you?

DAT- Kristy (00:56)

It's so funny. I think at one time I actually thought about getting into accounting, but I never did. Yeah. But in the dental world, you know, really

Kiera (01:02)

I could see it, I could see it.

DAT- Kristy (01:07)

the numbers are really only a measure of how well we're taking care of our patients and getting them healthy. And so from the dental realm, you know, oral wellness is a passion of mine. Maybe I should have been a hygienist too in a different life. But with that being said, the numbers don't lie. And so

Kiera (01:25)

Mm-hmm.

DAT- Kristy (01:26)

the you know, being in OM and practice administration, it it was the guide to let me know if we were winning or not. And so it it's not so much about the number, but where is it trending, you know? And so being able sorry, Kiera, being able

Kiera (01:38)

Mm-hmm. How do you no, no

DAT- Kristy (01:42)

to give that back and have teams know where they stand too, I think is hugely important.

Kiera (01:49)

So, how do you get teams on board with this? Like that was gonna be my follow-up when I was about to cut you off. Sorry on that. Like, I agree with you. It's ch it's shell, but how do you get your teams on board? Cause I think this is a common piece and a common like fear of offices is they don't want to tell their teams. They don't want their teams to talk about numbers. Doctors are afraid if teams look at numbers and they're gonna think they want to buy a new boat, which I'm like, go for it, buy the boat, like live your life. But how do you get teams on board to look at these numbers and doctors not to be afraid to share numbers with their with their teams?

DAT- Kristy (02:18)

Yeah. I think first and foremost we start out by talking about why did we all get into dentistry? Because usually it's about caring for our patients. And Kiera, I think there's also a misunderstanding that just because a practice may be collecting six million dollars doesn't mean the practice is financially healthy. And so when teams understand there's numbers inside the practice and numbers outside of the practice, I think it helps them

understand and just like they have to manage their finances, you know, what's in the bank? How am I gonna pay my mortgage? Like getting them on board to understand that helps them also drive for the success. And I don't know, you've been in dentistry a long time too. And I truly haven't met a doctor that isn't willing to give back when the practice

Kiera (03:05)

Mm-hmm.

DAT- Kristy (03:05)

is profitable. So typically, you know, when teams are on board and we're rowing in the same direction for a goal, it's a win win.

Kiera (03:14)

Yeah. I hope the doctors heard that. I hope the teams heard that of it is a win-win. It's a good way for us all to get aligned and be on the same page with each other. And like doctors, it is a business at the end of the day. And having a practice and having the numbers tell you, I love numbers because I feel like they're the non-emotional facts of the business. They're able to tell us, are we winning? Are we losing? It's just like a scoreboard in sports. Like it's up on the board. We know if that team is winning or if they're not winning.

and for us not to have like visibility into our business to know are we on track, are we off track? To me feels like what do we do when we're flying blind? Like I can't imagine a sports team like playing against each other and there's no score up on the board. It's just like hoops versus hoops. Like that's fun for a while, but the drive and the like, how do I protect my craft and how do I become a better player? And how do I know if we're actually playing as a team or we're just out here all open? Like those are the ways that you can actually see if you're winning or not. So

Kristy,

I'm gonna pivot us now to financial conversations with patients because it's all things money. We just gave you guys some tips on how you can talk to your teams about this, teams why you need to look at the numbers, how it is a scoreboard of the success of your practice. They don't lie. Every number tells a story, every number t ties to a system of what is broken, what can we improve, how can we improve it? It actually makes like your job easier as a team member because then we're not trying to solve the whole practice. We're just refining based on what the numbers are telling us.

So now pivoting that to patients, I think so many treatment coordinators, doctors, hygienists, like everyone in the practice is so scared to talk money with patients. So Kristy, like let's dig into that. How can people like what is that? Why are people afraid of this? Any tips on how we can have these financial conversations with patients?

DAT- Kristy (04:56)

Yeah. I think first and foremost is understanding that, you know, we're in it to get patients healthy. And we

Kiera (05:04)

Mm-hmm.

DAT- Kristy (05:04)

all understand that if there's active infection going on, it's not gonna get any better than it is today. And so

Kiera (05:12)

Right.

DAT- Kristy (05:13)

coming from the you know, reframing our brains and coming from the space of taking us back to why we got into dentistry and caring for people, their oral health

equates to their overall health. And if we can get them healthy as quickly as possible, all the better. But I also like to tell my teams, we play the healthcare advocate, but it's always in the patient's hands. So when we can put it back to the patients and say, you know, I'm here for you. And truly this is your journey. You get to be in the driver's seat. And we're going to do this in your timeframe.

And within your budget. It takes that pressure off and it really makes it a relational thing. And we can be the guide to getting them healthy.

Kiera (06:03)

That's amazing. And I think Kristy, as you said that, like it's just a reframe, right? Like I think we have the reframe right now. Like you you're telling yourself a story. You're telling yourself a story of, like people have to pay money and it's uncomfortable and they w but there's also another story of we're doing this amazing service and they're paying for a great service, just like Kristy. You used to cut hair. Like people, you give a good haircut, people want to pay you for a great and they even tip you.

Like no one has tipped me in my career for not sucking up their uvula. I would love to have a tip jar. Like you're welcome patients. I didn't suction that up. but like they want to, they want to pay for a service. And I think in dentistry we get kind of weird because like we are in healthcare and when we go to the doctor, but like never once have I ever gone to the doctor and been like, I'm just not gonna pay for it. Like, I know I have a copay, I know I have this.

And so I think for us to reframe it of we've done great dentistry, we've done a great service. People naturally know, like when I go to the grocery store, I buy groceries. When I get my haircut, I pay for my haircut. When I go to the dentist, I pay for my cleaning. I pay for my my care. Like that's what I pay for. And so I I love that you talk about Kristy of like this is just why we're even in dentistry. We did this to get patients back to health. We're here to serve.

I think that there's this space of having confidence in who you are and not being afraid of asking for money. Like it's okay. You did great work. You brought them back to health. Like you did something amazing for them. They are more than happy. It's the gift of reciprocity. And that worked so hard for me. But when we've done something good, people naturally, as a byproduct, want to pay for it. and so helping us, like you said, let's just do a reframe. Like, what if for the next week everybody in our practice just thought like every patient wants to pay us?

Like I promise you, it will be that you've just like activated that and you'll start to see more patients want to pay you. More patients are not having financial conversations of issues with you. It's not a conversation, like they're not rejecting you. They just want like they're just asking questions. And I think we often take those questions as rejection rather like it's confrontation rather than just conversations.

DAT- Kristy (08:11)

Yeah, I love that you say that, Kiera. And I tell teams every day, number one, when you take a step back and figure out why are they here, because we all know every single patient walks in and what do they say? I hate coming to the dentist. And I'm thinking to myself, there is nobody standing outside this door with, you know, holding a gun to you saying, You have to go to the dentist. So they're

Kiera (08:32)

Mm.

DAT- Kristy (08:33)

here for a reason and we just need to figure out what that reason is. People's motivation can be different, you know.

We talk about wellness, longevity, cosmetic, right? And the last one on that list that we tend to shy away from is the cost. But every

Kiera (08:47)

Mm-hmm.

DAT- Kristy (08:50)

day I tell my teams, it truly doesn't matter if it's 6,000 or 60,000. I know I maybe exaggerated that a little bit, but it's about fitting it in their budget and finding them away. So when you take that pressure off yourself and realize we're tying it back to what they really walked in the door for.

and help them again as that guide to getting what they want. Truly the money is just about finding a way to fit it in their budget. And if we have the tools in our tool belt to do that, it makes it so easy.

Kiera (09:23)

Mm-hmm. Well, and like you said, Kristy, it's it's just finding the solution, right? Everything we want in life, we figure it out. We find a way. Like people want to buy a car, so what do they do? They figure out how to pay for it. It's just tying it back to something that they want, need, and deserve. I will throw that like and deserve. I think so many patients don't feel like they deserve, they deserve to have a healthy mouth. They deserve to get this beautiful smile back. And I think actually like

Our

mouths are slightly hidden and they can be hidden. Like you can keep your mouth more closed. You don't have to smile in photos. but the confidence that you have to be able to be unapologetically smiley and to have confidence in your teeth and your smile and your breath and your health and all of that is a gift that I don't think that we realize because in dentistry we just do this day in, day out. but I was the girl who had my smile completely obliterated by someone in my life, and I didn't have that confidence anymore.

And I know what it feels like to be able to speak with confidence and to have my smile perfect and to speak where you don't feel as confident. And I will say that people might give you the push of finance at the top. And I just want to say, like, whenever, like to me, I don't know how you feel, Kristy. To me, objections are just a way for me, like, I haven't educated them enough. And there's just a question. That's all an objection is, is it's just a a a question packaged in a different way. So someone's like, it's cost. I'm like, fantastic. Let's talk about that.

Like, why am I taking this as you don't like me? Like we can make this up all day long, but instead it's just them giving me information. My job is to find the solution with them. There's always a solution. Let's talk about it. And I will promise you, every single one of you listening, and Kristy, you know this just as well as I do, it will never be cheaper or more predictable than it is today. So if it is cost, high five is the best day of your life because we get to make it like the most cost effective we possibly can.

We wait longer in dentistry, it just gets more expensive. That's how it works, that's how it operates. And also, like we lose our options and our our choice the longer we wait. And so let's take care of it now. Let's get it taken care of. And really, like you said, Kristy, they're here at the dentist. Like they chose to come. There's a reason they're here. So I think for us, like, I feel like thinking about cost as an objection is just a pair of sunglasses of a filter you choose to put on. And I'm like, what if I put on the filter of

Every patient wants to say yes to me today. What if I put on the filter of everyone's here and they want to get something done today? What if I put on the filter of everybody has like finances? I'm gonna help them find the way to make this like fit within their budget. I feel we get to choose these pairs of sunglasses, aka filters every day when we walk into the office. And for a lot of you, you might be picking up this like, people don't like insurance, people have this. Like, you're choosing to put on the black sunglasses, the dark gray sunglasses, the brown sunglasses.

Well, there's a whole other pair of sunglasses of yellow and green and pink and purple that are brighter, that are lighter, that are also available for you. And I don't think that that's just like Mary Poppins over here skipping through life. I know it's an actual fact because treatment planning and presenting and talking about finances is 80% the what you think about, 20% skill. It's not

DAT- Kristy (12:31)

Yeah.

Kiera (12:31)

the reverse. And I think so many people think it's 80% skill, 20% like how you think.

Kristy, break that down. Do you agree with that? 'Cause I do, but that could be Kiera's like la la land over here that I live in.

DAT- Kristy (12:41)

Yeah, no, I 1000% agree with you. I'm I'm gonna age myself a little bit here, Kiera, because I remember when I first got into dentistry, crowns were three hundred and eighty-five dollars at the office hours. And yeah, I mean yeah, a hundred percent, right? But

Kiera (12:51)

my gosh. It's okay. How much were haircuts, Kristy?

DAT- Kristy (12:59)

with that, you know, the same patients that today when you say fifteen hundred dollars for a crown, they said the same thing back then. It's so expensive.

Kiera (13:08)

Yep.

DAT- Kristy (13:09)

And you said something earlier.

My favorite comeback is you are worth it. You are

Kiera (13:14)

Mm-hmm.

DAT- Kristy (13:15)

worth it. I I literally maybe only had one person ever tell me, No, I'm not. I'm gonna die tomorrow. But I said, But you're gonna die with a healthy smile, right? And you know, truly people will go spend three thousand dollars on a couch and not bad an eye. So

Kiera (13:29)

Mm-hmm.

DAT- Kristy (13:30)

when you turn it about them and what they really came in for, what they want, and find that solution to get them.

It it's just a win win and it's so rewarding as a treatment coordinator to have that relationship with the patient because once you do it one time, they come back to you, they look for you, they know your name, they know you're gonna help them get what what they want in the end.

Kiera (13:54)

Mm-hmm. You're exactly right. And I think Kristy, like so many people don't realize that they're worth it. And like you said, like people are willing to shell out money left and right. Like it's wild. I don't know if people have seen the memes, they or the reels. They make me giggle when it's like the patient who's asking for the discount and they're driving like all these amazing, like beautiful cars, huge house. And I like to me that just like that cracks the code of our limiting beliefs.

Their beliefs

DAT- Kristy (14:19)

Yeah.

Kiera (14:20)

that we've chosen to pick up. Like I feel like they're pebbles in my pocket, their beliefs in my pocket. What beliefs am I putting in? Because it's a lot of times like I'm I'm projecting, I'm putting my own assumptions on other people when that's not real. I have a friend going through a pretty severe medical situation and we were talking about it. And one of our other friends was just like a hot mess express. And my friend was like who's going through the actual medical issue, she's like, That friend's projecting on me. Like

I actually don't feel any of that. But that friend saying, like, I'm sure you're so scared, or I'm sure you're so this or that. And she's like, I'm none of those, but she's projecting on me. And I think going into our financial pieces, how many times are we projecting our own limiting beliefs? Like you might think that Starbucks is expensive, but for someone, Starbucks is just part of their daily budget. Like that's that's that's just it's like brushing our teeth. They don't even bat an eye at it. Like you said, they're willing to drop money on a couch, they're willing to do this. It's the value of what people value. And so

For me, it'd be another question of how can you create more value of dentistry? I will tell you as a girl who's had her smile be available and not available, it is one of the greatest gifts you can ever give a patient. And maybe that's why I'm so like passionate about this topic, is because I'm like, I know what that feels like to not feel confident, to not feel like your smile is your own, to not feel comfortable talking to people, to not like I'm modeled for half of my life. Like, you want to believe like.

I I very uncomfortable in my own skin. And so to have that taken away and stripped away is something that I feel we don't if you've never had that taken away from you, you don't even know the gift you're able to give somebody, but I do. And so it's like, let's give that value of the health, like whatever it is. For some people, it's health. For some people, it's guys, I want to look really good in my coffin. Like I'm not gonna lie to you. I am such a vain human. Like I want my teeth to be pretty. I want to look gorgeous. I'd be your 90-year-old, like getting like veneers, braces.

Please don't limit that because you wouldn't pay for it. Like, if that's not your job, but your job is to present it to me. Your job is to find solutions with me. And your job is to help me see the value and what this is. And like Kristy said, to show me that I'm worth it, that I'm deserving of that. And that I agree, Kristy, is the best comeback. Like, no person is going to deny that. And that's probably one of the few places that they've heard that they're worth this treatment. And I also just want to break down like such a limiting belief.

Dentistry, we think is so expensive. Like when you said $1,500, I'm do you want to know how much it is to get Scorpion anti-venom serum? Like that stuff is like, I think it's $10,000 a teeny tiny vial. And you have to have three of those minimum. That's $30,000. That's expensive. Like, let's please put into like the scale of expense. Like medical

DAT- Kristy (17:01)

Mm-hmm.

Kiera (17:01)

bills are very expensive. $1,500 for a crown that's gonna last you for the next, I don't know, five, 10, 15 years.

That is a very low cost to be able to eat great subsidence for our body. Like, so again, please just please just also put that out there. There's financing options. You can do care credit. You can have other things. Please don't give them a smorgasborg. Like less is more. Let's make decisions very easy for them. Like, are we doing personal savings or do we want to talk financing options? Like, don't project and dump on them. Like let them choose from what it is. Perfect. Let's talk through this. Let's see where we're at. Let's come up with solutions that way you can afford this.

But I'm not going to project that onto them. I'm going to make them ask the questions. And I'm going to assume that they freaking just want dentistry done. Like, why not assume that? Like, I know this sounds so silly and Kristy and I are having a good giggle over here. But Kristy, I really think it's that black and white. Like you said, no one forces person to come to the dentist. They're at the dentist. They clearly want something done. Let's just find the solution to help them get it done. And to be confident and to assume they want to do that, finding the solutions, building the value, teaching them that they are worth it.

And

then putting on those sunglasses of those filters of that you're able you're able to get the dentistry done and let's just find the solution together. Those are my thoughts, Kristy. What are yours? I know this is my rant.

DAT- Kristy (18:17)

Yeah, I agree with you, Kiera.

Yeah. I 100% agree with you. And I also challenge people to start at the comprehensive level. Cause many times we tap our patients out. We we say, we're gonna scare them with the number. We don't wanna like show everything up front. And we'll just find a financial solution for this first phase. Sometimes you tap them out and they never come back for the rest. So again, if we put our advocate hat on and we go with the intent, like

purely in our heart. Our intent is to get you healthy and well. If you start at the hole, you can always go backward, but it's really hard to start with one tooth or one procedure and then go up comprehensively. I'll never forget, Kiera, the day I had a elderly lady come up and tell me about her fixed budget. I'm sure we've all heard those, right? And she had to have four

Kiera (19:07)

Yes.

DAT- Kristy (19:09)

crowns, one in every quadrant. And I was like, boy, how am I gonna fit this in $200 a month?

And you know, in the long run, I would have been better to find a solution to fix all four than to just start with the broken one. Because literally one month later, after we found the solution for the one, all I was doing was eating bread. Kristy and I was like, gosh, what am I gonna do? It's gonna be another payment,

Kiera (19:31)

Mm.

DAT- Kristy (19:34)

you know? So I also challenge people start at the hole and work backward. Cause again

As a advocate, our job is to help them get healthy. And if we can do it quicker, why would we not? You know, then

Kiera (19:49)

Mm-hmm.

DAT- Kristy (19:49)

then we've achieved and I always like to use a litmus test. What's best for the practice, best for the patient? If you can answer

Kiera (19:55)

Mm-hmm. I agree.

DAT- Kristy (19:56)

yes to that, we've done well.

Kiera (19:58)

Mm-hmm. And I think people often get a little funny on that. And they think, like, if it's best for the practice, then it's not best for the patient. And I'm like, no, there is a world where it's both. It's an and, not an or. It's best for both of us. It's best for each other. And I just I agree with you, Kristy. I throw this out of I do believe it's our moral obligation to tell patients really what's going on, not what we think

DAT- Kristy (20:20)

Mm-hmm.

Kiera (20:20)

they want to hear. Like I would be so angry, and I am still angry. Do you know how many hygienists never offered me fluoride?

Like I'm still angry about it to this day because I'm like, that's the most proactive preventative thing that I can ever do for my mouth. And you chose because you didn't think I'd want it or you was afraid to talk money to me, that you never offered it to me. Like, how many other times do we just not offer to people that we don't tell them what's really going on? Like you said, give them the comprehensive plan. Now, with that said, dentists, when you're doing a comprehensive plan, please don't

Don't talk so many words that they get lost. And there's there's an art of being comprehensive and using it in patient jargon that they can understand. So being very clear of perfect, here's everything going on. Your next visit's going to be this. This is when I want to see you back. Like this is the whole plan for treatment coordinators. Here's the whole plan. We're going to start with phase one. We're going to schedule out phase one, phase two, phase three, phase four. Like, let's make it very simple for them. Please don't get into the like.

All right, we're gonna do like seven crowns and it's gonna take 17 hours. Like they they don't need to know all that. They just need to know like where do we start? What's what does what does complete look like? also when they know about what the total is going to be, but also that we're able to break it down if they need to. Like, let's break it down. We're we're gonna do this in chunks. I do the same thing with implants, like our implants are 25, 70 grand. Like we have an office that does 150,000 per like full mouth, so it's 75,000 per arch.

some of you might be listening, like, my gosh, like, yes, guys, this is real. Like they really can do this. And they really do. And they have several patients that say yes to them. Again, I think it's your value. I think it's your confidence. I want people to realize they're buying your confidence. So you being confident in your treatment planning where you're doing it out of moral obligation and what's ultimately best for the patient. Patients trust, they believe, and they know you're genuine. That's how this doctor's able to charge 75 grand per arch for doing it.

He's a phenomenal dentist. Like I would trust him too. I'd pay for him over several others that are much cheaper than him. People, there are some that want to go for the cheapest. but I think that most people, when they look at their mouths, they recognize that it is an investment. They recognize that it is a and I think if you can present it that way and you can show them that this is long term preventative for you and it's long term care for you. I think people are able to see that. It's much better than even like your couch analogy. Couches like wear out.

And you have to replace them. Your teeth do

DAT- Kristy (22:42)

Sure.

Kiera (22:43)

wear out, but they have a lot longer lifespan on them than others. So, Kristy, I think it's a brilliant way to talk about comprehensive as well.

DAT- Kristy (22:50)

thank you. And you know, true truly, Kiera, it it is an investment in their health. And I hope that and I challenge people to even speak that way, you know, use use power words instead of out of pocket. And I always share with my teams, like I literally see a guy with his pocket hanging out. Like

Kiera (23:07)

Right.

DAT- Kristy (23:08)

you're sending a negative connotation. Say, you know, and and the total is this.

Kiera (23:14)

Mm-hmm.

DAT- Kristy (23:15)

It's an investment into your health, you know.

Kiera (23:17)

Mm-hmm.

DAT- Kristy (23:18)

And

I'm here to find a solution with you. So I I love it. It it definitely is a passion. And like I said, when you can meet the patient where they are, find what they want and tie it back, it's always a win. I was gonna share with you when you were talking earlier, you and people don't forget about the cosmetic things, just like the fluoride. I'm with you, Kiera. I don't have a problem with decay, but if they don't offer me, I'm not coming back because I feel like you haven't really treated me, you know. But I was

Kiera (23:46)

Mm-hmm.

DAT- Kristy (23:47)

gonna share.

My mother-in-law, she was playing cards and she had always come to the office that I worked at. And and one day she left and came back for the hygienist because she loved the hygienist. And doctor comes in my office like, and I'm like, What? You never offered, you never asked her. She had this bright, sparkly front bridge, and nobody ever stopped, even when they got her healthy, to say, Hey, what you're doing at home's great. Now's the time to ask.

Is there anything you'd like to change about the shape, size, and color for your teeth? So going back to what you said, it's our job to share the possibilities. And again, it takes the pressure off of us because the patient's always in the driver's seat. They get to say

Kiera (24:30)

Mm-hmm.

DAT- Kristy (24:30)

yes or no. And it's okay.

Kiera (24:32)

Mm-hmm. Kristy, I love that. I love that it's why are we not sharing more? I think people are so afraid that you're going to overwhelm. And I'm like, whatever you think is what people will feel. So if you think you're

DAT- Kristy (24:43)

Mm-hmm.

Kiera (24:44)

going to overwhelm them, you're going to overwhelm them. If you think you're pushing on them, you're going to. There is another pair of sunglasses, aka filter, if you want to. Like Kristy said, like, give them the options. Do you know how many people I wish would just fix my lateral for me? Like now, all of you are going to look at it. Don't worry. I'm taking contributions. You want to like.

Fix my ortho for me. I will happily be your patient. No one talks to me about it. Cause they assume Kiera's teeth are beautiful. She works in dentistry. I do love my teeth, but I would love to just do a slight correction on that, but no one asks. And so again, like talking to them about possibilities, just letting them know like patients in the driver's seat, they don't have to, but if they never know what it is, right? To me, it's almost like dreams and goals and and big ideas.

The reason we achieve things is because we've seen them from someone else. We've seen that someone has the house or the car or the life or the kids or the nanny or the healthy fitness or the whatever it is. We've all seen somebody that has it and therefore we want to achieve it. If we don't even know it exists and we don't know it's a possibility, guess what? They'll be talking to their friends and then they come back and they're like, Dr. Johns did my like whole mouth. And you're like, Well, we do that too. You didn't choose to share. So when it comes to finances, when it comes to talking these things, I think my whole overarching thing is like,

Let's put on the filters and assume the best. Let's share with people. Kristy, it was absolutely a fantastic podcast. There were so many nuggets in here. Kristy, you're so easy for me to podcast with because you and I just have so much passion for it. So we just rally. But Kristy, I just want to say thank you for sharing your perspectives. And I hope everybody picks up one or two nuggets, one or two perspectives, one or two beliefs, and you implement today. You can sit here all day long. You might have heard this before, but you can pick up one of these tools, try it out today, try it on for size, like get a little uncomfortable in the in the new realm.

And try it out because I promise you, those patients need you, they're coming to you, they trust you, and you have a moral obligation to help and serve them. Kristy, any last thoughts as we wrap up today?

DAT- Kristy (26:35)

No, the only thing I say is please share your wins. We want to hear your stories.

Kiera (26:39)

Absolutely.

Reach out [email protected] if you need help getting your team on board. Kristy's a freaking dynamite, amazing at doing this. Our consulting team is absolutely incredible. So reach out [email protected]. As always, thank you, Kristy. Thank you all. Thanks for listening. And I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.