Dental A Team Podcast

Kiera and Kristy share tips on having financial conversations with patients, including the type of mindset to adopt so it's not so intimidating, key language to use to get everyone on the same page, the power of a litmus test, and more.

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Transcript:

Kiera (00:00)

Hello, Dental A Team

listeners. This is Kiera, and today's a lucky day. I'm so excited. I get one of my faves podcasting with me today. I get the one and only Kristy Treasure. If you don't know Kristy, she's one of our dynamite consultants and she just drives offices to success faster than most people I've ever met. She's absolutely dynamite. And today we're gonna be talking about how to have financial conversations with patients. This is right up her alley. Things she's obsessed about talking about. Kristy, welcome to the show. How are you today?

DAT- Kristy (00:26)

Good, thank you. Pleasure pleasure to be here.

Kiera (00:29)

I love it. Kristy, it's so fun to talk. You love talking all things money, numbers, metrics. Like that's your jam. How did you even get into numbers and metrics, Kristy? Like, walk us through for those of you who don't know Kristy, she was an office manager. She's been like every position in the practice. She grew this exponentially large practice. But for some reason, her niche is numbers. So, Kristy, how did you get into numbers? Like, why are you this like obsessive woman about numbers? How did that like passion and obsession come to be for you?

DAT- Kristy (00:56)

It's so funny. I think at one time I actually thought about getting into accounting, but I never did. Yeah. But in the dental world, you know, really

Kiera (01:02)

I could see it, I could see it.

DAT- Kristy (01:07)

the numbers are really only a measure of how well we're taking care of our patients and getting them healthy. And so from the dental realm, you know, oral wellness is a passion of mine. Maybe I should have been a hygienist too in a different life. But with that being said, the numbers don't lie. And so

Kiera (01:25)

Mm-hmm.

DAT- Kristy (01:26)

the you know, being in OM and practice administration, it it was the guide to let me know if we were winning or not. And so it it's not so much about the number, but where is it trending, you know? And so being able sorry, Kiera, being able

Kiera (01:38)

Mm-hmm. How do you no, no

DAT- Kristy (01:42)

to give that back and have teams know where they stand too, I think is hugely important.

Kiera (01:49)

So, how do you get teams on board with this? Like that was gonna be my follow-up when I was about to cut you off. Sorry on that. Like, I agree with you. It's ch it's shell, but how do you get your teams on board? Cause I think this is a common piece and a common like fear of offices is they don't want to tell their teams. They don't want their teams to talk about numbers. Doctors are afraid if teams look at numbers and they're gonna think they want to buy a new boat, which I'm like, go for it, buy the boat, like live your life. But how do you get teams on board to look at these numbers and doctors not to be afraid to share numbers with their with their teams?

DAT- Kristy (02:18)

Yeah. I think first and foremost we start out by talking about why did we all get into dentistry? Because usually it's about caring for our patients. And Kiera, I think there's also a misunderstanding that just because a practice may be collecting six million dollars doesn't mean the practice is financially healthy. And so when teams understand there's numbers inside the practice and numbers outside of the practice, I think it helps them

understand and just like they have to manage their finances, you know, what's in the bank? How am I gonna pay my mortgage? Like getting them on board to understand that helps them also drive for the success. And I don't know, you've been in dentistry a long time too. And I truly haven't met a doctor that isn't willing to give back when the practice

Kiera (03:05)

Mm-hmm.

DAT- Kristy (03:05)

is profitable. So typically, you know, when teams are on board and we're rowing in the same direction for a goal, it's a win win.

Kiera (03:14)

Yeah. I hope the doctors heard that. I hope the teams heard that of it is a win-win. It's a good way for us all to get aligned and be on the same page with each other. And like doctors, it is a business at the end of the day. And having a practice and having the numbers tell you, I love numbers because I feel like they're the non-emotional facts of the business. They're able to tell us, are we winning? Are we losing? It's just like a scoreboard in sports. Like it's up on the board. We know if that team is winning or if they're not winning.

and for us not to have like visibility into our business to know are we on track, are we off track? To me feels like what do we do when we're flying blind? Like I can't imagine a sports team like playing against each other and there's no score up on the board. It's just like hoops versus hoops. Like that's fun for a while, but the drive and the like, how do I protect my craft and how do I become a better player? And how do I know if we're actually playing as a team or we're just out here all open? Like those are the ways that you can actually see if you're winning or not. So

Kristy,

I'm gonna pivot us now to financial conversations with patients because it's all things money. We just gave you guys some tips on how you can talk to your teams about this, teams why you need to look at the numbers, how it is a scoreboard of the success of your practice. They don't lie. Every number tells a story, every number t ties to a system of what is broken, what can we improve, how can we improve it? It actually makes like your job easier as a team member because then we're not trying to solve the whole practice. We're just refining based on what the numbers are telling us.

So now pivoting that to patients, I think so many treatment coordinators, doctors, hygienists, like everyone in the practice is so scared to talk money with patients. So Kristy, like let's dig into that. How can people like what is that? Why are people afraid of this? Any tips on how we can have these financial conversations with patients?

DAT- Kristy (04:56)

Yeah. I think first and foremost is understanding that, you know, we're in it to get patients healthy. And we

Kiera (05:04)

Mm-hmm.

DAT- Kristy (05:04)

all understand that if there's active infection going on, it's not gonna get any better than it is today. And so

Kiera (05:12)

Right.

DAT- Kristy (05:13)

coming from the you know, reframing our brains and coming from the space of taking us back to why we got into dentistry and caring for people, their oral health

equates to their overall health. And if we can get them healthy as quickly as possible, all the better. But I also like to tell my teams, we play the healthcare advocate, but it's always in the patient's hands. So when we can put it back to the patients and say, you know, I'm here for you. And truly this is your journey. You get to be in the driver's seat. And we're going to do this in your timeframe.

And within your budget. It takes that pressure off and it really makes it a relational thing. And we can be the guide to getting them healthy.

Kiera (06:03)

That's amazing. And I think Kristy, as you said that, like it's just a reframe, right? Like I think we have the reframe right now. Like you you're telling yourself a story. You're telling yourself a story of, like people have to pay money and it's uncomfortable and they w but there's also another story of we're doing this amazing service and they're paying for a great service, just like Kristy. You used to cut hair. Like people, you give a good haircut, people want to pay you for a great and they even tip you.

Like no one has tipped me in my career for not sucking up their uvula. I would love to have a tip jar. Like you're welcome patients. I didn't suction that up. but like they want to, they want to pay for a service. And I think in dentistry we get kind of weird because like we are in healthcare and when we go to the doctor, but like never once have I ever gone to the doctor and been like, I'm just not gonna pay for it. Like, I know I have a copay, I know I have this.

And so I think for us to reframe it of we've done great dentistry, we've done a great service. People naturally know, like when I go to the grocery store, I buy groceries. When I get my haircut, I pay for my haircut. When I go to the dentist, I pay for my cleaning. I pay for my my care. Like that's what I pay for. And so I I love that you talk about Kristy of like this is just why we're even in dentistry. We did this to get patients back to health. We're here to serve.

I think that there's this space of having confidence in who you are and not being afraid of asking for money. Like it's okay. You did great work. You brought them back to health. Like you did something amazing for them. They are more than happy. It's the gift of reciprocity. And that worked so hard for me. But when we've done something good, people naturally, as a byproduct, want to pay for it. and so helping us, like you said, let's just do a reframe. Like, what if for the next week everybody in our practice just thought like every patient wants to pay us?

Like I promise you, it will be that you've just like activated that and you'll start to see more patients want to pay you. More patients are not having financial conversations of issues with you. It's not a conversation, like they're not rejecting you. They just want like they're just asking questions. And I think we often take those questions as rejection rather like it's confrontation rather than just conversations.

DAT- Kristy (08:11)

Yeah, I love that you say that, Kiera. And I tell teams every day, number one, when you take a step back and figure out why are they here, because we all know every single patient walks in and what do they say? I hate coming to the dentist. And I'm thinking to myself, there is nobody standing outside this door with, you know, holding a gun to you saying, You have to go to the dentist. So they're

Kiera (08:32)

Mm.

DAT- Kristy (08:33)

here for a reason and we just need to figure out what that reason is. People's motivation can be different, you know.

We talk about wellness, longevity, cosmetic, right? And the last one on that list that we tend to shy away from is the cost. But every

Kiera (08:47)

Mm-hmm.

DAT- Kristy (08:50)

day I tell my teams, it truly doesn't matter if it's 6,000 or 60,000. I know I maybe exaggerated that a little bit, but it's about fitting it in their budget and finding them away. So when you take that pressure off yourself and realize we're tying it back to what they really walked in the door for.

and help them again as that guide to getting what they want. Truly the money is just about finding a way to fit it in their budget. And if we have the tools in our tool belt to do that, it makes it so easy.

Kiera (09:23)

Mm-hmm. Well, and like you said, Kristy, it's it's just finding the solution, right? Everything we want in life, we figure it out. We find a way. Like people want to buy a car, so what do they do? They figure out how to pay for it. It's just tying it back to something that they want, need, and deserve. I will throw that like and deserve. I think so many patients don't feel like they deserve, they deserve to have a healthy mouth. They deserve to get this beautiful smile back. And I think actually like

Our

mouths are slightly hidden and they can be hidden. Like you can keep your mouth more closed. You don't have to smile in photos. but the confidence that you have to be able to be unapologetically smiley and to have confidence in your teeth and your smile and your breath and your health and all of that is a gift that I don't think that we realize because in dentistry we just do this day in, day out. but I was the girl who had my smile completely obliterated by someone in my life, and I didn't have that confidence anymore.

And I know what it feels like to be able to speak with confidence and to have my smile perfect and to speak where you don't feel as confident. And I will say that people might give you the push of finance at the top. And I just want to say, like, whenever, like to me, I don't know how you feel, Kristy. To me, objections are just a way for me, like, I haven't educated them enough. And there's just a question. That's all an objection is, is it's just a a a question packaged in a different way. So someone's like, it's cost. I'm like, fantastic. Let's talk about that.

Like, why am I taking this as you don't like me? Like we can make this up all day long, but instead it's just them giving me information. My job is to find the solution with them. There's always a solution. Let's talk about it. And I will promise you, every single one of you listening, and Kristy, you know this just as well as I do, it will never be cheaper or more predictable than it is today. So if it is cost, high five is the best day of your life because we get to make it like the most cost effective we possibly can.

We wait longer in dentistry, it just gets more expensive. That's how it works, that's how it operates. And also, like we lose our options and our our choice the longer we wait. And so let's take care of it now. Let's get it taken care of. And really, like you said, Kristy, they're here at the dentist. Like they chose to come. There's a reason they're here. So I think for us, like, I feel like thinking about cost as an objection is just a pair of sunglasses of a filter you choose to put on. And I'm like, what if I put on the filter of

Every patient wants to say yes to me today. What if I put on the filter of everyone's here and they want to get something done today? What if I put on the filter of everybody has like finances? I'm gonna help them find the way to make this like fit within their budget. I feel we get to choose these pairs of sunglasses, aka filters every day when we walk into the office. And for a lot of you, you might be picking up this like, people don't like insurance, people have this. Like, you're choosing to put on the black sunglasses, the dark gray sunglasses, the brown sunglasses.

Well, there's a whole other pair of sunglasses of yellow and green and pink and purple that are brighter, that are lighter, that are also available for you. And I don't think that that's just like Mary Poppins over here skipping through life. I know it's an actual fact because treatment planning and presenting and talking about finances is 80% the what you think about, 20% skill. It's not

DAT- Kristy (12:31)

Yeah.

Kiera (12:31)

the reverse. And I think so many people think it's 80% skill, 20% like how you think.

Kristy, break that down. Do you agree with that? 'Cause I do, but that could be Kiera's like la la land over here that I live in.

DAT- Kristy (12:41)

Yeah, no, I 1000% agree with you. I'm I'm gonna age myself a little bit here, Kiera, because I remember when I first got into dentistry, crowns were three hundred and eighty-five dollars at the office hours. And yeah, I mean yeah, a hundred percent, right? But

Kiera (12:51)

my gosh. It's okay. How much were haircuts, Kristy?

DAT- Kristy (12:59)

with that, you know, the same patients that today when you say fifteen hundred dollars for a crown, they said the same thing back then. It's so expensive.

Kiera (13:08)

Yep.

DAT- Kristy (13:09)

And you said something earlier.

My favorite comeback is you are worth it. You are

Kiera (13:14)

Mm-hmm.

DAT- Kristy (13:15)

worth it. I I literally maybe only had one person ever tell me, No, I'm not. I'm gonna die tomorrow. But I said, But you're gonna die with a healthy smile, right? And you know, truly people will go spend three thousand dollars on a couch and not bad an eye. So

Kiera (13:29)

Mm-hmm.

DAT- Kristy (13:30)

when you turn it about them and what they really came in for, what they want, and find that solution to get them.

It it's just a win win and it's so rewarding as a treatment coordinator to have that relationship with the patient because once you do it one time, they come back to you, they look for you, they know your name, they know you're gonna help them get what what they want in the end.

Kiera (13:54)

Mm-hmm. You're exactly right. And I think Kristy, like so many people don't realize that they're worth it. And like you said, like people are willing to shell out money left and right. Like it's wild. I don't know if people have seen the memes, they or the reels. They make me giggle when it's like the patient who's asking for the discount and they're driving like all these amazing, like beautiful cars, huge house. And I like to me that just like that cracks the code of our limiting beliefs.

Their beliefs

DAT- Kristy (14:19)

Yeah.

Kiera (14:20)

that we've chosen to pick up. Like I feel like they're pebbles in my pocket, their beliefs in my pocket. What beliefs am I putting in? Because it's a lot of times like I'm I'm projecting, I'm putting my own assumptions on other people when that's not real. I have a friend going through a pretty severe medical situation and we were talking about it. And one of our other friends was just like a hot mess express. And my friend was like who's going through the actual medical issue, she's like, That friend's projecting on me. Like

I actually don't feel any of that. But that friend saying, like, I'm sure you're so scared, or I'm sure you're so this or that. And she's like, I'm none of those, but she's projecting on me. And I think going into our financial pieces, how many times are we projecting our own limiting beliefs? Like you might think that Starbucks is expensive, but for someone, Starbucks is just part of their daily budget. Like that's that's that's just it's like brushing our teeth. They don't even bat an eye at it. Like you said, they're willing to drop money on a couch, they're willing to do this. It's the value of what people value. And so

For me, it'd be another question of how can you create more value of dentistry? I will tell you as a girl who's had her smile be available and not available, it is one of the greatest gifts you can ever give a patient. And maybe that's why I'm so like passionate about this topic, is because I'm like, I know what that feels like to not feel confident, to not feel like your smile is your own, to not feel comfortable talking to people, to not like I'm modeled for half of my life. Like, you want to believe like.

I I very uncomfortable in my own skin. And so to have that taken away and stripped away is something that I feel we don't if you've never had that taken away from you, you don't even know the gift you're able to give somebody, but I do. And so it's like, let's give that value of the health, like whatever it is. For some people, it's health. For some people, it's guys, I want to look really good in my coffin. Like I'm not gonna lie to you. I am such a vain human. Like I want my teeth to be pretty. I want to look gorgeous. I'd be your 90-year-old, like getting like veneers, braces.

Please don't limit that because you wouldn't pay for it. Like, if that's not your job, but your job is to present it to me. Your job is to find solutions with me. And your job is to help me see the value and what this is. And like Kristy said, to show me that I'm worth it, that I'm deserving of that. And that I agree, Kristy, is the best comeback. Like, no person is going to deny that. And that's probably one of the few places that they've heard that they're worth this treatment. And I also just want to break down like such a limiting belief.

Dentistry, we think is so expensive. Like when you said $1,500, I'm do you want to know how much it is to get Scorpion anti-venom serum? Like that stuff is like, I think it's $10,000 a teeny tiny vial. And you have to have three of those minimum. That's $30,000. That's expensive. Like, let's please put into like the scale of expense. Like medical

DAT- Kristy (17:01)

Mm-hmm.

Kiera (17:01)

bills are very expensive. $1,500 for a crown that's gonna last you for the next, I don't know, five, 10, 15 years.

That is a very low cost to be able to eat great subsidence for our body. Like, so again, please just please just also put that out there. There's financing options. You can do care credit. You can have other things. Please don't give them a smorgasborg. Like less is more. Let's make decisions very easy for them. Like, are we doing personal savings or do we want to talk financing options? Like, don't project and dump on them. Like let them choose from what it is. Perfect. Let's talk through this. Let's see where we're at. Let's come up with solutions that way you can afford this.

But I'm not going to project that onto them. I'm going to make them ask the questions. And I'm going to assume that they freaking just want dentistry done. Like, why not assume that? Like, I know this sounds so silly and Kristy and I are having a good giggle over here. But Kristy, I really think it's that black and white. Like you said, no one forces person to come to the dentist. They're at the dentist. They clearly want something done. Let's just find the solution to help them get it done. And to be confident and to assume they want to do that, finding the solutions, building the value, teaching them that they are worth it.

And

then putting on those sunglasses of those filters of that you're able you're able to get the dentistry done and let's just find the solution together. Those are my thoughts, Kristy. What are yours? I know this is my rant.

DAT- Kristy (18:17)

Yeah, I agree with you, Kiera.

Yeah. I 100% agree with you. And I also challenge people to start at the comprehensive level. Cause many times we tap our patients out. We we say, we're gonna scare them with the number. We don't wanna like show everything up front. And we'll just find a financial solution for this first phase. Sometimes you tap them out and they never come back for the rest. So again, if we put our advocate hat on and we go with the intent, like

purely in our heart. Our intent is to get you healthy and well. If you start at the hole, you can always go backward, but it's really hard to start with one tooth or one procedure and then go up comprehensively. I'll never forget, Kiera, the day I had a elderly lady come up and tell me about her fixed budget. I'm sure we've all heard those, right? And she had to have four

Kiera (19:07)

Yes.

DAT- Kristy (19:09)

crowns, one in every quadrant. And I was like, boy, how am I gonna fit this in $200 a month?

And you know, in the long run, I would have been better to find a solution to fix all four than to just start with the broken one. Because literally one month later, after we found the solution for the one, all I was doing was eating bread. Kristy and I was like, gosh, what am I gonna do? It's gonna be another payment,

Kiera (19:31)

Mm.

DAT- Kristy (19:34)

you know? So I also challenge people start at the hole and work backward. Cause again

As a advocate, our job is to help them get healthy. And if we can do it quicker, why would we not? You know, then

Kiera (19:49)

Mm-hmm.

DAT- Kristy (19:49)

then we've achieved and I always like to use a litmus test. What's best for the practice, best for the patient? If you can answer

Kiera (19:55)

Mm-hmm. I agree.

DAT- Kristy (19:56)

yes to that, we've done well.

Kiera (19:58)

Mm-hmm. And I think people often get a little funny on that. And they think, like, if it's best for the practice, then it's not best for the patient. And I'm like, no, there is a world where it's both. It's an and, not an or. It's best for both of us. It's best for each other. And I just I agree with you, Kristy. I throw this out of I do believe it's our moral obligation to tell patients really what's going on, not what we think

DAT- Kristy (20:20)

Mm-hmm.

Kiera (20:20)

they want to hear. Like I would be so angry, and I am still angry. Do you know how many hygienists never offered me fluoride?

Like I'm still angry about it to this day because I'm like, that's the most proactive preventative thing that I can ever do for my mouth. And you chose because you didn't think I'd want it or you was afraid to talk money to me, that you never offered it to me. Like, how many other times do we just not offer to people that we don't tell them what's really going on? Like you said, give them the comprehensive plan. Now, with that said, dentists, when you're doing a comprehensive plan, please don't

Don't talk so many words that they get lost. And there's there's an art of being comprehensive and using it in patient jargon that they can understand. So being very clear of perfect, here's everything going on. Your next visit's going to be this. This is when I want to see you back. Like this is the whole plan for treatment coordinators. Here's the whole plan. We're going to start with phase one. We're going to schedule out phase one, phase two, phase three, phase four. Like, let's make it very simple for them. Please don't get into the like.

All right, we're gonna do like seven crowns and it's gonna take 17 hours. Like they they don't need to know all that. They just need to know like where do we start? What's what does what does complete look like? also when they know about what the total is going to be, but also that we're able to break it down if they need to. Like, let's break it down. We're we're gonna do this in chunks. I do the same thing with implants, like our implants are 25, 70 grand. Like we have an office that does 150,000 per like full mouth, so it's 75,000 per arch.

some of you might be listening, like, my gosh, like, yes, guys, this is real. Like they really can do this. And they really do. And they have several patients that say yes to them. Again, I think it's your value. I think it's your confidence. I want people to realize they're buying your confidence. So you being confident in your treatment planning where you're doing it out of moral obligation and what's ultimately best for the patient. Patients trust, they believe, and they know you're genuine. That's how this doctor's able to charge 75 grand per arch for doing it.

He's a phenomenal dentist. Like I would trust him too. I'd pay for him over several others that are much cheaper than him. People, there are some that want to go for the cheapest. but I think that most people, when they look at their mouths, they recognize that it is an investment. They recognize that it is a and I think if you can present it that way and you can show them that this is long term preventative for you and it's long term care for you. I think people are able to see that. It's much better than even like your couch analogy. Couches like wear out.

And you have to replace them. Your teeth do

DAT- Kristy (22:42)

Sure.

Kiera (22:43)

wear out, but they have a lot longer lifespan on them than others. So, Kristy, I think it's a brilliant way to talk about comprehensive as well.

DAT- Kristy (22:50)

thank you. And you know, true truly, Kiera, it it is an investment in their health. And I hope that and I challenge people to even speak that way, you know, use use power words instead of out of pocket. And I always share with my teams, like I literally see a guy with his pocket hanging out. Like

Kiera (23:07)

Right.

DAT- Kristy (23:08)

you're sending a negative connotation. Say, you know, and and the total is this.

Kiera (23:14)

Mm-hmm.

DAT- Kristy (23:15)

It's an investment into your health, you know.

Kiera (23:17)

Mm-hmm.

DAT- Kristy (23:18)

And

I'm here to find a solution with you. So I I love it. It it definitely is a passion. And like I said, when you can meet the patient where they are, find what they want and tie it back, it's always a win. I was gonna share with you when you were talking earlier, you and people don't forget about the cosmetic things, just like the fluoride. I'm with you, Kiera. I don't have a problem with decay, but if they don't offer me, I'm not coming back because I feel like you haven't really treated me, you know. But I was

Kiera (23:46)

Mm-hmm.

DAT- Kristy (23:47)

gonna share.

My mother-in-law, she was playing cards and she had always come to the office that I worked at. And and one day she left and came back for the hygienist because she loved the hygienist. And doctor comes in my office like, and I'm like, What? You never offered, you never asked her. She had this bright, sparkly front bridge, and nobody ever stopped, even when they got her healthy, to say, Hey, what you're doing at home's great. Now's the time to ask.

Is there anything you'd like to change about the shape, size, and color for your teeth? So going back to what you said, it's our job to share the possibilities. And again, it takes the pressure off of us because the patient's always in the driver's seat. They get to say

Kiera (24:30)

Mm-hmm.

DAT- Kristy (24:30)

yes or no. And it's okay.

Kiera (24:32)

Mm-hmm. Kristy, I love that. I love that it's why are we not sharing more? I think people are so afraid that you're going to overwhelm. And I'm like, whatever you think is what people will feel. So if you think you're

DAT- Kristy (24:43)

Mm-hmm.

Kiera (24:44)

going to overwhelm them, you're going to overwhelm them. If you think you're pushing on them, you're going to. There is another pair of sunglasses, aka filter, if you want to. Like Kristy said, like, give them the options. Do you know how many people I wish would just fix my lateral for me? Like now, all of you are going to look at it. Don't worry. I'm taking contributions. You want to like.

Fix my ortho for me. I will happily be your patient. No one talks to me about it. Cause they assume Kiera's teeth are beautiful. She works in dentistry. I do love my teeth, but I would love to just do a slight correction on that, but no one asks. And so again, like talking to them about possibilities, just letting them know like patients in the driver's seat, they don't have to, but if they never know what it is, right? To me, it's almost like dreams and goals and and big ideas.

The reason we achieve things is because we've seen them from someone else. We've seen that someone has the house or the car or the life or the kids or the nanny or the healthy fitness or the whatever it is. We've all seen somebody that has it and therefore we want to achieve it. If we don't even know it exists and we don't know it's a possibility, guess what? They'll be talking to their friends and then they come back and they're like, Dr. Johns did my like whole mouth. And you're like, Well, we do that too. You didn't choose to share. So when it comes to finances, when it comes to talking these things, I think my whole overarching thing is like,

Let's put on the filters and assume the best. Let's share with people. Kristy, it was absolutely a fantastic podcast. There were so many nuggets in here. Kristy, you're so easy for me to podcast with because you and I just have so much passion for it. So we just rally. But Kristy, I just want to say thank you for sharing your perspectives. And I hope everybody picks up one or two nuggets, one or two perspectives, one or two beliefs, and you implement today. You can sit here all day long. You might have heard this before, but you can pick up one of these tools, try it out today, try it on for size, like get a little uncomfortable in the in the new realm.

And try it out because I promise you, those patients need you, they're coming to you, they trust you, and you have a moral obligation to help and serve them. Kristy, any last thoughts as we wrap up today?

DAT- Kristy (26:35)

No, the only thing I say is please share your wins. We want to hear your stories.

Kiera (26:39)

Absolutely.

Reach out [email protected] if you need help getting your team on board. Kristy's a freaking dynamite, amazing at doing this. Our consulting team is absolutely incredible. So reach out [email protected]. As always, thank you, Kristy. Thank you all. Thanks for listening. And I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.

Being a CEO dentist doesn't have to mean fewer patients. It means leading your business as intentionally as you are clinically. Kiera gives specific tips on how you, as a dental practice owner, can shift your mindset so you're operating like a CEO and your practice is humming.

Episode resources:

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Transcript:

Kiera (00:00)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera. And today we're just gonna kind of like jump right into it. I hope it's an amazing day over there. And I hope, as you're listening, today this is going out to our dentist owners. and I think that a lot of dentists actually own a practice, but very few of them actually run it like a CEO. Is that fair? Would you agree? Would you not? what do you think? What do you think about that? Do you feel like that is

And the way you'll know if you're running it like a CEO or if you're just being owned by it is do you feel trapped in your business or do you feel in control of your business? And I think I want to just kick this off because there are times, and I will tell you, once you hit one or the other, that's not forever. That state is not a forever state. So just because you might be there today doesn't mean you'll forever be there. So if you're trapped, great news, you won't always be there. If you're if you're feeling in control, great, you're not always going to be there either. But

The goal is like being a CEO dentist doesn't mean that you're actually having to see fewer patients. It's about leading your business as intentionally as you are clinically. And being the leader of that, being the person who actually is setting the tone and being a CEO. And I think when I started my business, I didn't know what a CEO was. I did not know the difference between like owning a business and managing a business. Like I just thought you worked in it. but I think when I started looking at if I left tomorrow for two months, excluding your dentistry.

Could my team function? Could my practice continue to grow? Do I have systems? Do I have processes? Do I have things in place to where I could do that? If the answer is no, then great, you're still managing your practice. If it is yes, then great, you're sipping into that CEO role. Does your team have the playbooks? Do they have that? And so today I just kind of want to dig into like a CEO Dentist playbook of like, how can you lead a practice that grows without you? I will say this is tricky. Like you still need to be the CEO, you still need to have a vision, but I think it's a lot of pieces will be on mindset shifts that we're able to have.

what you can possibly do differently. And then like what are some habits that you can do to grow to have growth, profitability, and freedom. Now again, this is if you want to. You don't I also think some people get into this weird black and white. Like if it's this, it's that, or if I don't do this or I do do that. I hate when I say do do. Guys, you just heard it come through. but I hate when you don't have to have it just be black and white. All right. You don't have to have it where it's all or nothing. There can be an and

You can be a great clinician and be a CEO. You can be a CEO and you can still be in your practice. You can step out of your practice. We just want to make sure that you are not just being a clinician. And if you want to, that's fine. But just make sure we have a CEO of your business. So know thyself and be free, I think is where it is. and if you want to look and think and lead like a CEO, these might be some great tips for you of some mindset shifts and what we what we should go through to help.

The CEO Dentist focus on where your focus should be, what things you can prioritize. So even if today it feels impossible, at least you have a roadmap of how to get there. So number one, as a CEO, you own the vision, not every task. And I think that's a bold statement. Own the vision, not every task. Your job is not to do everything, your job is to create the direction. And this feels weird to me. This especially like dental assistant turned CEO. That's a weird shift. So you better believe I was the girl who did everything.

My job is to look 10 steps ahead of my doctor. I'm supposed to be on point. I'm supposed to be doing these pieces. To have now an assistant who I'm like, hey, I need you looking 10 steps ahead of me. Where am I at? Like what things are coming down the line? That's weird. It's a weird shift for me. and but just helping you see like your job as a CEO is to own the vision. And most of the time you walk out of meetings without tasks. Now, if you are having tasks, that's okay, but make sure that they're truly CEO tasks that only you can do. And usually they tie to vision.

Profit culture. That's pretty much, and sometimes it will be like leading edge of a new initiative. So if you're wanting to build out a surgery center in your business, you're probably gonna be doing that right alongside with it, with your with your office manager. So what it looks like when it's broken and you are not owning the vision, and every task is coming to you is team constantly asks you what to do. You priorities are changing weekly, doctors making every decision or a lot of the decisions, like what toys are we buying for the toy box?

when should we schedule lunch? When should we have this person in? That means like you're still doing a lot of this, you're still managing your business, you're not leading and guiding it. So, like what a CEO dentist would do is you set a clear vision. This is where we're headed, this is where we're going. You have the priorities, this is what's happening in the next three months, and then you communicate what success looks like. So you see how there's a shift. The daily tasks are still getting done. You can still oversee them. You still have a manager who you meet with.

But you're not the one doing this. You're not stamping off on that. And I will tell you, it's a really awkward, it's really weird, but it's very freeing. And ultimately what it does is it also like we're doing a mastermind talking about Dan Martell's buy back your time. And that one we've got to just make sure we figure it out. And we like when you buy back your time, I look at my tasks and I think if I can have anybody do this task for less than four X what my hourly rate is, I need to do it.

And I need to push myself into my own comfort zone. And I need to be working on things that I can't also like right now. The projects I'm working on, like I can I can do my own confirmation calls, I could book my own travel, like I could stamp off on where team members are going and PTO and like lots of people can do that. What people can't do in our company is figure out where the next level of Dental A Team is going. And I that's my job. That's what I'm paid to do. That is literally Kiera's job. I still podcast with you guys, I still hang out, like.

Other people can podcast, these are things that I really enjoy. But I've simplified it down. I only block this much time in my calendar. So I have much more of my time that's dedicated to building our company. No one else is doing that. I'm literally the only person that does it. So for you to go from solving daily problems to leading the quarterly planning, leading team priorities, having the team become proactive and less dependent on you. So that would be what success looks like. So that's building a leadership team. We love to do this. We help build leadership teams. We help you to run your quarterly meetings and

Set up those rocks and teach the team how they're able to drive and influence rather than being dependent on the doctor. You're still there. You still get to help them. You still get to influence them. You still get to mentor them. Those pieces are going to be great for you. So what happens here is teams actually need you to be the lighthouse. And my team told me this. They said, Kiera, I know you want to be in the weeds with us, but we actually need you to be the lighthouse of like where the heck are we going? Because none of us can see that. And without your guidance and your direction, we're all going to be lost. And like

I like shirk over here. To me, that sometimes doesn't feel as good because I can't check a check mark. And I know that sounds so ridiculous. And I think that sometimes this is why people do sit in the day-to-day manager rather than into the visionary CEO seat because the day-to-day tasks feel good. Having the like I'm just gonna call myself out. This is speaking to Kiera. I'm having an intervention with myself over here. This is where I am wanting to be important.

me stamping off on things makes me feel like I have control. Me telling a team what to do, there's so many people that report to me. That's a freaking ego. My team does not need that. Do you know how many great leaders and managers I have in my team? They do not need me. I do not need to be stamping off on everything. Now, do we have a maturing team right now? Absolutely. Do we have a lot of like I feel like we shook the snow globe based on where we're headed? Absolutely. But that doesn't mean it's a forever seat for me. It's a temporary, it's an interim, and I know that they know that. So it's sitting there just in the interim.

and so what I would do for this is help your team feel empowered, where we can we move you to what are the three goals for the practice? What are the quarterly plans? Who's responsible, not the dentist? And then questions that come to a doctor. I want you to truly start asking, like, is this something only I can do? And if so, solve it. And if not, start delegating and having empowering your team to do it. This will help you. This is going to have it. So

That's CEO shift number one. Number two, I would say know your numbers that drive your business. and this I've talked about, I've harped on, there's so many podcasts on this. I just want you to know your performance. So you've got to look at your numbers before things feel wrong. You need to know numbers beyond production, and you need to make decisions on those numbers always. You gotta be looking at your KPI scorecard, your overhead, your PL. And every single month minimum, you are looking at like be the CFO. Like,

A CEO works with a CFO, and until you're large enough, you need to know these numbers forward and backwards. Your office manager should be preparing them, you should be looking at them, but you have got to know the numbers of your business. I'm not saying you need to be the one who preps all the reports, but you have to know what's going on. So that way you're able to see, are we making money? Are we not making money? And I think so many dentists get into this hustle and bustle of like, I'm just gonna go produce, produce, produce. And I'm like, Do you realize that if you just spent a little bit of that production time on looking at your numbers, you would actually be able to know.

rather than guess. You would be able to work less and create more. And so I just really think for you to start shifting. So number one is you got to set the vision and the culture and you got to have your team do it. You set the priorities, you define that where we're going and you communicate what success looks like. You're not solving every decision. Next step is you're using your numbers to make every single decision and you're having a monthly meeting on numbers. Money monthly meeting there you go money monthly meeting and you know what it is.

You know your numbers today, forward and backward. You know what your overhead is. You know where we're spending more, you know where we're spending less. You know what your profit margins are, and you know what you need to produce to cover all your expenses, including paying yourself. You need to review that every single month at a minimum. Set it up with your CPA, force yourself. Like that's what I do. I have a meeting with my CPA. I don't really need to talk to them, but that's Kiera's time where it forces me to look at the numbers, to review where I'm at, to make sure that I'm making decisions based on that. And then the third thing is going from an operator to an owner.

Is you've got to have leaders and systems so there's less dependency on you. so if we lucked again, I think about myself like if I were to leave, what things are gonna break in two months? That's where we start with those systems and that scalability. and what am I going to put into play? What am I going to do? What is going to happen? Like, where is this going to get resolved? And we start having those systems and those people built into those leadership spots.

So I really want to make sure that you guys have that of this is where it's the systems, the structure and the scalability. And I think the Dental A Team does such a good job of this. Like we know the systems to put into place for you. Like they're very basic, they're very minimal. Most things can get resolved. We have decision trees that are in there. We help your leaders look at the numbers so they know how to make the decisions too while you're gone. And this way it continues to grow and there's no more dependency upon you. You can truly step away. So

If you have this, I think that oftentimes doctors and office managers are firefighters and it's like, my gosh, care, I'm so exhausted and everything's coming to me. And it's like, okay, great, we're gonna make a list of everything coming to you. We're gonna chunk those into like what categories do they fit into. Then from there, we're gonna figure out who should be the owner of this, what protocols need to go into place, and what systems could reduce this. That way, when you go, then what we typically do is we recommend that you do actually schedule like a two-week, like start there.

vacation where you're going to be gone and the practice is still going to operate. And we want to just see what breaks. We're going to do the same thing for our office manager because we want to be able to make sure that this practice can truly start to function without you. Now, again, I get to a spot and I'm like, I'm on this path and I want to be the CEO of it, and I don't want to be there every day where I have to be there. And then I actually like achieve it. And I'm like, my gosh, who is Kiera? What is it like? What is my life if this doesn't happen? And what's

What's my own like what's my purpose? And I think this is where a lot of people get trapped in the cycle of your purpose is not to be doing tasks. Your purpose, like they still need you to set the vision. It's not something I can ever stamp off and say, I've done this, this, and this. I can't stamp a check mark on a vision. I can't step a check mark on a culture. Those things are almost like these soft skills, like they're they're soft. Like I can say I have a vision, I can say I have a mission statement. I can say we have a great culture. I do check, check, check.

But ultimately they're intangibles. They're things that people feel. They're things that people experience. And honestly, when I get to a point where I'm like, wow, the business can run without me. Sometimes I go in and I create chaos because I want to be needed. And I want to just caution you that as you're going to this, whiplashing a team can actually be so detrimental to them. Sending them on, like, I want to be here. But then you come in and you undercut everybody. This is me talking to myself. I'm sure none of you do this. So sorry, Dental A Team.

I do it. And it's I have to recognize that that's ego. That's not serving anybody, including myself. It's not serving my team. So if I have great leaders, which I do, I've got an amazing leadership team. But if I constantly go in and I'm answering questions in Slack and I'll calm myself out on this of like, that was wrong. That's not my place to overstep. And I need to connect in with the leader. you can have the best of intentions, but if you're not willing to let leaders grow, you're not willing to truly want to be the CEO, don't

Preach it unless you actually are going to execute on it. You can have sluts like small setbacks, but you need to own it. You need to call yourself out and you need to move forward and your team needs to be able to trust you and have confidence with you. These are pieces that are non-negotiable for me. You have to check yourself and recognize that there's an ego that's chirping in the background, that's chirping. It's loud, it's annoying. It wants you to do all these things, but that doesn't mean that that's right. It doesn't mean that you should do that. It means that you have a chirpy ego that needs to zip it and you need to be the CEO.

You need to trust your leaders. 80% of them doing it is better than 100% of you doing it. So when you look at this for this, what are kind of the steps of you owning the vision, not every single task, you knowing the numbers of your business and making decisions based on that? And then making sure you're truly building leaders and systems that reduce dependency on you and you truly are stepping into that CEO seat, you're trusting and empowering your leaders to do it. They can do it. Develop the leaders, create accountability and build systems for consistency. And if you struggle there,

Reach out. That's what we're good at. We do this. We help you build the fundamentals for you. Get the vision in place. Teach you what your job description is. Call you out when you're stepping in your lane that you're not supposed to be in and say, get over there. They've got this. They can handle it. Teach your leaders how to run effective meetings, how to hold accountability lines. This is what it is. Your goal is not to be the busiest person in the practice. Your goal is to be the leader that helps your practice thrive and truly helps them and gets out of their freaking way.

I'm thinking about a doctor right now, and this doctor says they want to be the CEO. They say they're not growing. They're at the office all the time. And I'm like, you've got a leadership team, but you get in their way. You want the chaos. You don't get out of there. You live in this chaos day in, day out. That's your emotional home, and you go there because it's comfortable for you. You have to start doing things differently if you want a different life. So this is a call out to all of you. If you really want to be the CEO of your practice, you've got to own that step out and get out of their way and get your

chirpy ego to zip their lips. You've got to change how you lead. You've got to change how you're working. You've got to change the priorities you're doing. It's awkward. It's uncomfortable. I've surely sat in bed a few times and cried and been like, my team doesn't even need me. And then I like wipe my tears and I get up and I'm like, you will never say that again and you're going to move forward because they do need you. They just don't need you to do every task for them. I'm not an operator. I'm an owner of this business. My job is to lead.

To guide, to mentor, and to be the one who is sharp and to create the space, to give me the space to dream, to figure out the next layer, to read the books, to move into the next evolution of growth. That's my job. No one else is doing that. And that's your job as well. So if you feel like your practice can't function without you, maybe it's time to step into the CEO role and like let's be more intentional and let's get them to be able to function without you. Next level of growth is gonna come from changing how you lead, not how hard you work. So.

If you're ready to change, reach out. [email protected]. Come to webinars or whatever it is, but make the change now. Commit to that. And your CEO role can look very different. But ultimately, the goal is to not be the busiest person, but to be the person who guides, leads, and gets out of their way and empowers your team to do this without you. Set the vacation, set the deadline, and let's make it happen. This is what we do. We help you guys. So reach out. [email protected]. Commit to being the CEO of your practice. You can do it. I know you can. I've been able to evolve.

It's an evolution. This is why we have our mastermind in person. So doctors can talk to each other. They can share their woes. We can talk as CEOs together. We can talk about the things we're doing. We can call each other out because we see it in each other. Come be a part of that. Don't do this alone. It's really hard to do on your own. Come be a part of it. I'd love to have you be a part of it. [email protected] And as always, thanks for listening. I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team podcast.

Tiff and Pam talk about the current intersection of technology in the practice, and how using and understanding AI as a tool for busywork means you can focus on the tasks that really need that human touch. They talk about why training AI could be just as critical as training humans, where to look first when incorporating the software into your practice, how a staff member can serve as quality check for automated tasks, and more.

Episode resources:

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Transcript:

Tiffanie (00:01)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Tiff back with you here on the podcast. And we are in the studio today. I have myself and I have Miss Pam with me. And Pam is one of our prize possession consultants here at the Dental A Team. We have had Pam on our team for a little while now. And if you are special enough and blessed enough to work with her, you know exactly who she is and you have some solid foundational systems. Pam is a systems guru. She busts them out.

And she holds accountability like I've never seen before. And when she learns something, she learns it forever. And I love getting to watch you, Pam, progress in your Dental A Team journey. I watch you like taking notes all the time on the systems that we, you know, hold tried and true. Yesterday Dana was talking about a couple of systems during our collaboration and I was like, gosh.

She's just over there feverishly writing and I love it because I know exactly what's gonna happen. You're gonna like go back, you're gonna relearn

Pamela (00:54)

I was. Yes, I was.

Tiffanie (00:58)

it, and you're gonna teach it. And it was just really cool. So I love that, Pam. Thank you. And I love that you have these skill sets that you're able to then take and you help so many practices implement the same skill sets, like not just our systems, but how to retain it. You know how you retain it.

But then you're also looking for how are other people retaining the things that they're learning so that you can help them grow in their learning as well. So it's just really cool to watch, Pam. Thank you for everything you do and thank

Pamela (01:27)

Thank you.

Tiffanie (01:28)

you for being here today. How are you?

Pamela (01:31)

you know, I'm doing fabulous and thank you. I appreciate all those kind words, Tiff. That was very nice. I think it's a unique and great time to be in dentistry. So v we've seen a lot of changes over the years and now we're to a stage that is changing very, very quickly.

Tiffanie (01:50)

I agree. I I love that you said that, Pam, because something that I think we've said in dentistry for a long time is that dentistry is really progressive in a lot of ways. I think there's a lot of things in dentistry that haven't changed and haven't progressed, like Rick canals, things like that are still being done similarly to how they were thirty years ago. But so much in dentistry is so progressive and it's changing all the time. But I I think we've always said that. But I think in the last five, six years that has

Like us saying that before doesn't even make sense anymore. Like the progression we're seeing now is wild.

Pamela (02:26)

It's it's crazy. you know, I was thinking about this, and there are so many systems that we have done for years that we're not perfecting, right? That we still could perfect and are in addition to any AI stuff we have. But the interesting thing is is that now something that has been in scarcity our entire human existence or now or soon will become like an abundant commodity, which is intelligence, right?

Tiffanie (02:53)

Yeah. Yeah.

Pamela (02:55)

So

I think that it's really wild to be thinking about that intelligence is a commodity and we can buy it.

Tiffanie (03:03)

Yeah, I think that's amazing. That was a great perspective. And you are not wrong. I listen to a lot of

Pamela (03:07)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (03:09)

podcasts and I know you do too that speak to that same thing. And I think both of our households house many conversations around that same thing. I think we we share that.

Pamela (03:18)

That is so true. It's so true.

Tiffanie (03:22)

Yeah. So with that, Pam, I think that's a great start. What are you seeing? expand on that for me. Like what are you seeing as far as I love that like intelligence is is a

purchasable at this point. What are you seeing with your practices or just the research you're doing and the things you're hearing and and listening to within the dental world, narrow that down for us. What are you seeing from your perspective how that's changing dentistry?

Pamela (03:48)

Yeah,

well I I think the the question is is how do we react to that reality, right? And a lot of practices are have not gotten into the AI and are now saying, okay, I want my insurance verification done, I want, you know, RCM done, the revenue cycle management done by AI, but it is a little daunting. Right? It is like I had one practice say

yo well we have this company that's doing our RCM and and I said do you are you like what are you doing with it and they said nothing they do it and I'm like dear goodness gracious like there are you have to manage it unfortunately I think we're at a real a space where we're not the Ironman like Jarvis runs everything

Tiffanie (04:43)

Yeah.

Pamela (04:43)

you know stage we're at the

Alexis and we have a lot of really smart AI tools. Most of them, I'm well, they're all sitting on top of separate systems and what we are contributing. I don't think we're pardon me quite to the point where it's an operating system as opposed to, you know, pieces. So I'm seeing practices now take those pieces, try to learn them, and then develop their skills even more in the stuff that they were doing.

So what I mean by that is how are we, how are they actually doing at clean claims, right? Are they

Tiffanie (05:23)

Yeah.

Pamela (05:24)

getting the clean the claims clean before they send them in? how are they doing on you know managing the online scheduling? Are they reacting to that? And is all the patient's insurance information accurate before it goes to the AI?

So that's that's what I'm seeing. That's a s a little bit of a struggle.

Tiffanie (05:47)

Yeah. I think something you pointed out there was that a lot of people a lot of people seem to be jumping headfirst and just like handing the keys over rather than allowing it to be a tool that they use still with oversight. And I noticed recently, even just on my chat GPT that I use down at the bottom, it's like, Hey FYI, these may be inaccurate. Like this is not to be taken as truth. Yeah. And I'm like, well

Pamela (06:11)

Yes, I j I saw that, yeah. So true.

Tiffanie (06:16)

We need that reminder though, kind of like the McDonald's coffee cup that now has, you know, since nineteen ninety or whatever it was, says that the contents are hot. Like humanity needs those reminders 'cause I think we're so it's like a it's a catch to me too, 'cause I do think we're so quick to jump onto things and try them. But

Pamela (06:34)

Mm-hmm.

Tiffanie (06:34)

at the same time we're like second guessing and

thinking we can't and thinking they don't work, but we do latch on to certain things where we're just like, wait, that was expected. I expected to be able to drink my coffee as soon as you handed it to me. You know, that it wasn't gonna be scalding hot, that I could just just go. And same with the AI. I think there's so many aspects of it that we just expected all of the truth to be on the internet somewhere. We've been primed that the truth is on the internet and

we just expected it to be true that now chat is like, hey, wait a second, like, hey, I'm just like your buddy who did the research online, the same as your friend next door. Like this

Pamela (07:09)

Right.

Tiffanie (07:13)

could be wrong. And I think it's an interesting thought because to your point of view, handing over your cycle management, your your revenue and all of that data, handing that over to AI and expecting it to just be perfect from here on out with no mistakes is wild.

Right, but we're doing it. So many of us are doing it. Similarly to the online scheduling. I know we have a lot of practices and we have some doctors that have spoken for us at our events. we had one last September that our doctor focused on AI, and she pointed out the facts of needing to train their AI the same as they're training a human. Like you get a

Pamela (07:51)

Yeah, yes. Yes.

Tiffanie (07:54)

result and you're like, you got that result, you're fired, you're done, we give up.

You say, actually,

Let's tweak it to be what we want it to be. So we're saying yes and okay, cool. And let's do it this way. Let's move it this direction. with that statement, you also said insurance verifications, making sure they're accurate. And it made me think too, we've always said, you know, good information in is good information out, bad information in is bad information out. And I think

That's the same with any of it, with any of the AI tools or any of it, right? The it can only scour the internet for so much information and find so much truth. With the good information in, that goes as far as everything. So whatever it is that we're asking and training these systems and these tools to produce is what we're going to get. So we're not spending the time with the AI and we're not spending the time saying, This is the result that I want, this is how I want you to get there.

we're doing a disservice to ourselves just the same as so many people we were just talking about this. So many people are still misusing or underutilizing tools that we've had for gosh, at this point I always say 30 years, but at this point I think it's going on like 40 years, right? Like we've had these tools for

Pamela (09:12)

Exactly, yeah.

Tiffanie (09:14)

a long time. We're still

Pamela (09:16)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (09:16)

misusing them because I know both of us have walked into offices where they're like changing the prices in the treatment plan.

And they're doing all this math and there's a calculator. I still have offices that have the calculators that have the tape, and I'm like, where are you even where do you buy the tape anymore? Right. But they do, they have this running tab. And I'm like, what are you doing? And they say, Well, it's never right. We always have a balance. And I'm like, Okay, this is like a band-aid fix, right? So no matter what technology you have, there's so much tech that saves us so much time. And that's the point of this conversation is what kind of tech is out there that can

save our team

Pamela (09:52)

Mm.

Tiffanie (09:53)

time. And a lot of that time is for the administrative team, gives them the the chance to do other things, right? So automating things gets rid of busy work, allows them to do other things. But if we're not utilizing the tool correctly from the get-go, it's not saving the time because we're going back and fixing it anyway. So maybe we're saving time on we have an online scheduling app and it works. So our team maybe doesn't have to answer as many new patient calls.

But then that same person is over here calculating by hand a treatment plan estimate. It's like, cool, well, we just like took nonsensical

Pamela (10:28)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (10:29)

time and put it into a nonsensical time suck again. So, Pam, how

Pamela (10:33)

Yeah. Yeah.

Tiffanie (10:35)

are you helping the chain offices to really utilize the tools to actually save the time? And when they're not, so like that situation, how do we how do we get to the bottom of it? Because for me,

When I see somebody calculating treatment plan estimates because they always have a bill at the end, I'm like, cool, that's like a band-aid over this massive gash on your arm and it stopped the bleeding

Pamela (10:59)

Mm-hmm.

Tiffanie (11:00)

in that one spot, but it's not fixed. Like you still need stitches. How do we get to the bottom of it? And how do you help practices really figure out what truly is going to save them time and how they can get there?

Pamela (11:14)

Yeah,

I think it goes back to basics. Before we layer on that AI piece of it, we have to have those basics in place. And you're right, there are a lot of practices and you know that are struggling with that. They're still doing things by hand. So, you know, have going back to the basics and having that correct verbiage, I think, is super important. to with the patient of knowing that.

There may be, it is an estimation, and there may be a difference when once your insurance pays. And you can offer to the patient, you know, if you would like to call, I don't like doing predeterminations, pre-D, I'm kind of against them. A lot of people still do them for larger treatment. I understand that. but for if you are to, you know, tell a patient, look, if if it's a credit.

we will get that credit right back to you within the month, right? have

Tiffanie (12:12)

Mm-hmm.

Pamela (12:13)

some sort of verbiage that gives you a little bit of out, but also be confident when you're prevent presenting those numbers if you've done the homework. So I think that's where it goes is back to the basics, making sure the basics are correct before you, you know, are giving that treatment plan to the patient. And then your verbiage is super important. And trusting it.

Tiffanie (12:36)

Yeah, I totally agree.

And trusting it exactly. Being able to trust the system is huge. So making sure I think you're you're like spot on back to the basics, right? So making sure your verbiage is in line and making sure that the information that we're putting into the computer system is as accurate as possible. And you can use AI tools for that too, right? So we have

Pamela (12:55)

Right. Right.

Tiffanie (12:56)

AI tools this day and age that do insurance verifications and they upload it into the system.

They do all of the pieces. But then again, back to what we said earlier and how you said like this practice is like, we don't even look at it, right? Same thing. Like if you're if you're paying for an AI bot to go scour, get the information, put it into your system, and then you're turning around and you're like, well, it's always wrong, right? I I always have a balance or a credit. And so I calculate it just to double check, like, okay, maybe we need to look to see.

Further back, where is that miscalculation coming from? Because the insurance data in the system, the patient's data in the system, the right fee schedules, all of those pieces are feeding the tech and the intelligence, the information that it's spouting out to you. So it can only do so much. So if you've

Pamela (13:47)

Right.

Tiffanie (13:48)

got, you know, you didn't mark the you didn't you didn't tell the bot that you needed to mark that there was a downgrade. So you're you're having

crowns come back and there's two hundred dollar balance because it was downgraded, right? Well, stop hand calculating that and tell the bot to do it differently. Tell the system to do it differently. Whatever your system

Pamela (14:06)

That's right. That's right.

Tiffanie (14:08)

is, there's a little button somewhere that you you click it and it says downgrades, right? Account for downgrades, etc. So utilizing those tools from the ground zero, I think is just massive and it's something that's been severely underutilized for a really long time.

that needs to be right first. Because then if we go in and we layer these AI bots on top of that, that data is what they're working with. Just like Dentrix can only give you a treatment plan based on the information that you put in there. You put the fee schedule, you put the percentages, you put the treatment plan. You did all the buttons, you clicked and you put the treatment plan. It spouts out these numbers based on the information you put in it. The bot's going to do the same thing. So I think that's our soapbox bot.

Pamela (14:55)

yeah.

Tiffanie (14:55)

situation there,

like we go on forever. Go for it.

Pamela (14:59)

Yeah, no, I I agree and a lot. a lot of practices are struggling with this and they're because they're getting this AI and saying, Hey, it's not worth it. Like I'm still having to call the insurance company, I'm still having to, you know, calculate by hand, right? And I think it it does go back, like we said, to the basics and really digging down on that. And I mean continue to use AI, but like you said.

it's so interesting. You have to teach it, right? And you may not be able to look to say, this is the exact to the penny downgrade amount, but once you have taught it, you do need to trust it. Yeah. Yeah.

Tiffanie (15:40)

Yeah, I agree. I love

it. Okay, what kind of tools? I've I've got a few, you know, that I'm I've been seeing the online scheduling, I think, is finally making it headway. It's been a tool that we've had for a really long time, but we've

Pamela (15:55)

Yes.

Tiffanie (15:55)

all been very afraid of it for good reasons. That's fine. But what are some other tools that you're seeing them implement? So AI bots, like what are what are your practices using them for that people could start looking at?

Make sure their foundations are correct. Start looking into how could we automate some busy work to give my team back time? What are you seeing out there in in dentistry right now, Pam?

Pamela (16:17)

Yeah.

definitely the RCM, the revenue cycle management. I think that AI does a really great job with that. But the thing I I spoke about earlier is I the and getting to the root of the problem, if you don't want to have to manage it more, then you have to make sure your claims are clean. And what does that mean? And that's going back to basics, truly, as well. Like, are we taking all the photos? Are we taking

you know, all the blood points when probing. Are we doing are we doing everything we can do to make sure that they have as much information as they have. So I think RCM is kind of the number one I'm seeing. insurance verification, where a lot of practices are moving there. I think there's still a little struggle with that because we don't get the patient information a as quickly. And you know, I think most of the most of them say put it in two days before.

Tiffanie (17:15)

Yeah.

Pamela (17:16)

Patient communication, so even filling the schedule, right? texting people to say on an ASAP list, you know, those kind of things are being utilized very well. schedule optimum schedule optimization as well. So I think there are programs out there that help you say fill that schedule and say, here's the patients that would work in this hole, right? So I think it's

We have to accept that AI is here, right? so I think very, very to your point is yes, training it, but also yes, we do have to learn it. And it it will be it's one of those things. We're kind of lifelong learners, people in dentistry, because we always have new things coming. And so we have to look at it like this. This is just a a piece to learn, and the more we can learn about it, the better.

that we are gonna get. We can't just be afraid of it. I say dig right in, figure that, you know, whatever you're using, figure it out. Call the company, ask questions, ask the right questions, you know, what what how do I get my insurance verification better? You know, and let them help you and tell you because they know everyone doesn't know. And if you just like one and done, I'm leaving it alone, you're probably not gonna have

as good of experience as you could have with it. Yeah. And so I think doctors

Tiffanie (18:43)

Yeah. Yeah, I love those.

Pamela (18:45)

need to be a little bit aware aware. It takes time to learn. It's not just plug

Tiffanie (18:50)

Yeah.

Pamela (18:50)

and play.

Tiffanie (18:51)

Yeah. And to piggyback off that, it sounds like making sure we still have KPIs in place, there's still somebody overseeing results, that somebody's still verifying that that employee, right, is doing the job right is key because if we're if we do have an AI bot that's helping with revenue cycle management, and then we're not looking at AR numbers, we're not seeing, you know, our over ninety.

decrease or or is it increasing like we're not watching those KPI points. That's how it gets lost. Just the same as somebody with a great resume comes in and says, hey, I'm gonna clean up your AR for you. Pay me X amount of dollars and we stick them in a corner and never look at it. Right? It's the same thing. So making sure those KPIs are in place. I think there's a ton of AI style tools that have come out for front office administrative work, which makes sense. You know, that's that's where AI

is in the administrative world right now as the recording of this podcast at least but something that I see a lot of practices using too and I think you have a few that are using them the like Pearl and Overjet AI systems for that second opinion at least I know a lot of doctors are liking that second opinion which has helped it's not I I think of it as busy work now but that like co-diagnosing space and really just that confidence

in what I'm diagnosing seems to come across a lot more from the doctors and those tools have been super beneficial as well. So I think there's starting to be this massive shift in the AI tech kind of industry where there is going to be more coming out for the the back office as well. And I think Pam, a lot of insurances are actually using systems like Pearl and Overjet, those AI tools to read x-rays and process claims a lot faster too.

Which to your point then they gotta be super clean. You're okay.

Pamela (20:45)

Well, yeah, and and sorry, I totally did not mean to interrupt you,

but that that brings up something that I've thought about and I've heard from practices, a lot of claims are being denied, right?

Tiffanie (20:58)

Yeah.

Pamela (20:58)

More. I think it's up like by twenty percent over the last few

Tiffanie (21:01)

I agree.

Pamela (21:01)

years. And that's probably because they are using AI to read the x rays, and

Tiffanie (21:09)

Yeah.

Pamela (21:09)

there is no way the human eye can be as good as

an the AI assistance, you know, the tech

Tiffanie (21:19)

Yeah. Yeah.

Pamela (21:20)

the the radiology it it it that is going to become an AI job. So just in general.

Tiffanie (21:25)

For sure.

Pamela (21:26)

And so reading reading X rays, they're they're proficient. They're they're extremely intelligent at it. And so we need to jump on that bandwagon to make sure that we are seeing everything too. But

yeah, that's

Tiffanie (21:40)

Yeah, agreed.

Pamela (21:41)

very, very true.

Tiffanie (21:42)

Yeah. And the same as the other AI tools, they have their variances as well. And you train those

Pamela (21:47)

Mm-hmm.

Tiffanie (21:47)

tools too. And you train yourself to see like, okay, well, this variance of that is like that's that's pretty extreme. I'm not like my practice doesn't diagnose that way. Cool, that's a watch for you, right? But at least it's being pointed out and you can compare. You can look at okay, what did last time look like versus this time? Which is super cool because that's not something you can do.

with just our eyes of that kind of comparison.

Pamela (22:11)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (22:12)

So whether you're diagnosing off of it or using it as a tool to see progress and change, train it, train it and train yourself just the same as you're training your scheduling bots.

Pamela (22:22)

I I agree a hundred percent. And it it does have to be managed, right? It it does have to we have to learn it and we have to manage and it i it's just not a one and done. Just yeah. So very sh very

Tiffanie (22:33)

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I love it.

There's so much tech to be found. I think some key ones that we can kind of action item here to go explore at least. I love the online scheduling tools if you're not using them yet. I think they're worth it. they weren't always. They have turned a corner. They are worth it. and Pam, I think even the scheduling

bots that answer, you know, new patient calls, things like that are taking over and they're doing really phenomenally. And then I think I would push to make sure your insurance information is accurate. obviously, you know, Pearl or Overjet kind of tools, those are phenomenal too. But I think starting with those scheduling and those insurances, if you're not using those tools yet, I think it's worth looking into because I really do think that revenue cycle management, all of those pieces are

hugely beneficial at this point. So do your homework. Go ahead.

Pamela (23:30)

I agree and I think I think

it yeah, do your homework and I think it's exciting what's happening in with the voice activation. I don't think it's quite

Tiffanie (23:38)

Mm-hmm.

Pamela (23:39)

there yet, but that is something I know dental offices are very hungry for. I know it's a little intimidating, but when it gets better, and I I think it's developed huge amount from when I was in the office because it d had

Tiffanie (23:53)

Yeah.

Pamela (23:54)

just started. and you know, I think

Offices are really looking forward to that and doctors are looking for their notes to help with their notes, right?

Tiffanie (24:05)

Yeah.

Pamela (24:05)

So I think those are the two big areas that we want to watch

Tiffanie (24:08)

Yeah.

Pamela (24:09)

and really keep abreast of what's going on and you know, keep automating and you can do it slow and it shouldn't be intimidating.

Tiffanie (24:18)

Yeah, I completely agree. I think slow is fast these days. Everything's changing so much. It's worth it to do

Pamela (24:24)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (24:25)

your due diligence and make sure that you're using it correctly and to its full extent. So I love it. Thank you so much, Pam. This was a lot of fun. I know that the AI tech world is your jam. you do a lot of introspective work on it and just it's a big conversation topic for you. So thank you for

Being on here with me today and being willing to share your knowledge.

Pamela (24:49)

Thank you, thank you. I love AI and I can't wait to buy a robot.

Tiffanie (24:54)

Yeah, no right. That's what a our

we have an almost 13-year-old in the house and he's ready to buy one, ready to build them, ready to go. I love it. I love it. Of course.

Pamela (25:02)

I know, it's it's very cool. Well thank you for the time, Tiffanie. It was great to talk about this.

Tiffanie (25:09)

Thanks, fam. Awesome. Okay, listeners, share this with a buddy. share some information you might have. You might be trying something in your practice now. Drop us a five-star review below and call that out. People do read through those comments.

or if you're on our socials, put it in the comments section. You guys have some conversations about this. There's a lot to be learned here and there's so much to be shared. I know we had a doctor speaking on how she's using AI, but then we also just had a massive conversation in our doctor's only mastermind last Tuesday about AI tools, AI bots, kind of how different practices are using them. So it's a huge conversation. Get it rolling in there, get on board with some other doctors and share these tools with each other.

[email protected]. If you need anything from us at all, we are always happy to share all of the knowledge that we have and we're always happy to help you in your practice on your journey towards an amazing rest of the year. Thanks so much guys and we'll catch you next time.

Kiera gives three tactical shifts to help practice owners get their time, energy, and life back, while still maintaining a successful business.

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Transcript:

Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (00:00)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera. And today I want to talk about a fun topic that I think a lot of you deal with.

and that's burnout. And I know we've talked about it before, I know we've talked about it in the past, and I know it's not a fun topic, but I think it's a fun one to help people not have.

I think burnout, I was listening to I have a podcast that I really enjoy. It's

Life Wisdom

by Words of Taoism. And I just love different mindsets, different perspectives, and

I think this ties really heavily into today's topic. And he was talking about how, like, so many of us are per burnout, and it's this feeling of like, I'm just spent, I'm just exhausted, like I can't do one other thing. And they were talking about how oftentimes it's not just about the work that we're doing. A lot of times it's not actually the work, it's the mental load that we're carrying or the things that we're carrying behind. And it's that is what I want to talk about today is.

like the burnout and how we can get our life back without sacrificing all of it and what this looks like and work life balance and the cliche around it. But when I started thinking of like all the pieces that we do carry the stress of a team, the workload of actually doing it, stress of our families, conversations, replaying conversations in our mind, wondering if we did things correctly, like did I check the books? Did I talk to this team member correctly? D what do I need to do? There's so much weight.

thinking about how oftentimes like we build these businesses, not to be prisoners of them, but to actually have freedom from them. And I think sometimes it feels cliche and it feels like we're getting the exact opposite of that. And so I wanted to talk about like why we get the burnout similar to that. Like we're caring so much. It's not the workload. I don't think most of us, I think a lot of us are fine. I think it's the how much we're caring, it's the subconscious caring that doesn't ever leave us alone. And so what causes that shift in an

Hopefully just some like three tactical shifts that help you get your time, your energy, and your life back. And burnout is a lot of times a conversation we have with a lot of doctors. And I think having a coach, having a guide, having someone in your corner can help prevent that burnout sooner and quicker because we're gonna be listening to it, watching it. And I think having a safe space where you can say, like, I'm exhausted, I'm tired, like I don't physically think I can do that anymore. And then somebody questioning and saying, All right, like there's other, there's a thousand other paths to do it. Let's look and let's find that solution where you don't have to do it.

But we're able to have other people there with you. and I just I think that burnout, I think stress, I think carrying it, it's at every size of practice. So please don't think like, well, people don't deal with this. No, they do. No, like there's highs and lows, everybody has it, that we've got days we've got more of it, we've got days that we have less of it. and I don't think it's like needing more motivation. I think it's like w what what do I actually do? And so kind of just going through that Dental A Team, we work with hundreds of offices across the nation.

Like we've seen it across the board. I've dealt with it. I'm a business owner. I'm a multi-million dollar owner. I've built practices, I've run dental practices, I've started my own business. I've gone from scratch up. I've sold. I mergers and acquisitions, selling to DSOs, you name it. I've been there, I've done that, I've done it a lot. I've done it in my own personal life. I've built multiple multiple businesses in my own. I've built my own personal brand. The things like let's talk, let's talk as business owners, let's talk about these different things. And so I think one of the biggest things that can help prevent this burnout is to stop being the solution to every problem.

I think that we carry this weight constantly of feeling like, especially founders who have built up from the ground up, feel like they've got to be the solution. You were. That's who you were. You had a GSD to get there. But that doesn't mean that's who you need to continue to be. And I'm I'm guilty of this. I watch Slack and I watch myself. And how often do I just jump in and solve a problem? Or I'm sitting in meetings and I know the answer, but just because I know the answer doesn't mean I need to raise my hand and answer. I need to have a team that can create solutions. I need to have a team that genuinely can do it.

Because I genuinely believe one of the fastest paths is being the answer for everything. team members are like, how to know if this is the case is you got team members who are constantly coming to you. Every decision requires your approval and you are solving problems all day long, even minimal problems. And I know I'm guilty of this in my own company. I watch it and I'm like, why are they asking me for that? Like, how do I give them the permission to not need that? And I need to just let them be dependent. And

Let them be independent and not dependent on me. I think when I see teams very dependent on an owner, including myself, I think people being exhausted. I think the practice that can't function without you, can they handle these decisions without you? But also there you think there's a flip side of can you handle them making mistakes? Can you handle letting go of the control? Can you handle if things break? I remember me and a dear colleague, we were having a very spicy conversation and I was like, what?

You want me like sign off on these things and let our reputation get destroyed? I was very sassy that day. This was just like six months ago. You guys, this was not like young Kiera. This was real life Kiera. And she's like, no, Kiera, we're not like just gonna let our reputation fall apart. She said, but you do need to have things like she sent me a decision matrix and she said, You've got to make decisions like which ones really are going to destroy our business, and which ones do you need to realize are not going to destroy and you need to stop being involved in those.

And to have somebody who's willing to push back on me like that, I was so appreciative of because she's like, Kiera, you're sitting here making decisions about cards and branding. That isn't like we're not gonna destroy it. And she's like, I understand in the past that might not have been the case, but guess what? If something goes wrong, your team's gonna fix it. But you have to let them, you have to trust them. Otherwise, you're forever gonna be held in bottleneck, choke hold burnout. And I think when I hear that, I think about the monkey who.

puts their hand in the hole and they hold on to the nut and they can't get their hand out and they end up getting trapped. And I think about how many business owners with burnout have their hand holding on so tightly to control and wanting everything perfect that they don't let go of it that they end up suffocating themselves and burning out when it didn't necessarily need to be that way. So when I look at like doctors and how much are you answering and office managers, how much are you answering

versus how much is your team able to do? This doctor I was in, we were looking at like etching glass and the team found some cool things on Etsy and the doctor's like, yep, sign off stamp. You guys do it. I know you're gonna do a great job. And it's not something where they're gonna check over their shoulder. No, if it doesn't look good, of course they're gonna say something, but that's such a small decision with such small ramifications versus they're building out the entire construction of the business on the other side. Two very different pieces. Like what is the ramification long term? And so

When you're looking at it, I would say

But number one, when questions come to you, start to ask your team what solutions do you think are we can do for this? And then trust them and let them run with it. Second, for yourself, in meetings, stop being the answer to everything. And then third, just look to see like what's one, two, three, four items that you don't need to give an answer to. Just sit and watch and observe. And I think for me, I almost like have the visual putting my hands, like sitting on my hands and pretend or pretend my hands have glue on them and they're stuck together.

If I couldn't do anything, would my team be able to handle this without me? And I think it's a good test to see how much they're actually able to do. Anytime I go on vacation, I completely check out and I come back and I'm shocked at how good they can do. And I think reminding myself that my team wants to make me proud, that they can answer these things, that I don't need to answer it for them, trusting them they're gonna have better ideas than me. And again, them doing 80% of the work is better than me doing 100% of it. And so I think a great way for you to look at like,

Start asking your team to bring solutions. You can even roll it out that guys, I'm not, I'm not great at this. So please, like everybody, this is my ask. This is my goal for the next six months. Put a bracelet on, whatever you got to do to remind yourself. Like, I literally have a bracelet this year that says no. And that's to remind me, like, no, like, don't do that. Don't say yes to this. Like, let your team flourish. Let go of that control, trust. Because honestly, as a team member, that's the greatest thing your your boss can ever do for you, is to give you the trust and the confidence into.

Let you flourish. That's where people love to work. No one loves to work when they're being micromanaged. And I know I'm guilty of this. So my team listening, I'm sorry. And just know that I'm hyper aware of it, actively participating in letting go of that. And genuinely, I know my team will do far better than I ever. Like they want to make me proud. Our team is such a great team. And your team's the same way. So let them stop stopping the solution to every problem. The second thing to help prevent this burnout that's tactical is.

have boundaries around your time. And this is something I learned early on. I used to work sun up to sundown, seven days a week, on holidays, on weekends. And I think we protect our production time. Like you better believe I ask you for a meeting. Do you how many offices come in? They to coach and they want to solve their problems. But like, but don't do my calls during during production time. I'll talk to you on my drive home. And I'm like, hard pass? No. You're blocking out two hours a month during production time because I know you're gonna be way more proactive. And I'm probably gonna do like

In the morning. You are not running through our meetings and you better be on time to every single meeting. Otherwise, don't sign up for coaching. Like hard and fast. If you can't give me two hours to work on the business, you are not prepared to do coaching because you're not going to implement anything. I'm not talking to you on your drive home. Like, sorry, that's just not where it's going to be. You product your production time, but you don't product your personal time. And both are equally important in my opinion. So, like, are you working through lunch all the time? Are you answering messages at night? Are you h working every single weekend? Do you have this constant mental load that never shuts off on you?

And what I found is you gotta block CEO time where you work on the business during your week. Every time I'm getting stressed out, Marissa and I and Shelbi, we look at the schedule and it's like, Kiera had no time to work on the business. This is why she's stressed out. It's a non-negotiable for me. That is the rock. That is the number one thing that goes in the schedule. Non-negotiable. Then after that, like I have family time. I have a date night. And our team, we made it all like a very conscious effort that like after five, we don't do work. I'm not gonna say it's perfect and I'm not gonna say you have to have that because sometimes working.

Like sometimes I get up at three in the morning and I'm freaking lit and I'm jazzing. It's not depleting for me. That's not burnout. That's working and it's passionate. So it's not a like hard and fast, no one can work. Because sometimes we do want to, but there's there's a conscious shutoff. And so I look at it, I try hard not to send slacks after five o'clock at night. I can schedule those for the next morning. Like shut my email off, take it off of my phone. Don't have Slack and emails on your phone. And really truly be intentional. So

I actually have a box. This came from a friend. she has a really cool box, and that box no longer is being made, otherwise, I'd share it with you. So I bought a like nice $5 box from Target. It's a white box, it's pretty, it sits on my counter, and that's my phone box. So when I'm done with work, so at five o'clock and I have something where I've got to go, like go for a walk with my husband, have something that I'm looking forward to, have a set end time. my phone my watch comes off and my phone goes off and it goes in the box and I leave and I completely disconnect. Now, for a lot of us, I can feel like a heart palpitation.

There's also, I think it's called the brick where you can brick your phone where it turns back into like a brick phone, where honestly there's like calling and messaging, and that's all you have. There's no other apps or anything like that, and you can set it up. for me, I just stick it in the box. And what's really awesome is to be able to disconnect. On the weekends, phone's completely off. Like I'm a princess wife and my husband has his phone and he loves it. And I leave my phone. I leave it plugged in. I don't take it with me.

Because I need a complete disconnect. When I go on vacations, it's a hundred percent offline. I love to go out of the country for that reason because I'm out o offline and I know it's gonna charge me more to to talk to people. Now I know some of you have kiddos and whatnot, but the more you can have blocked family time, blocked CEO time, blocked personal recharge time, and you protect all three of those equally, you will actually feel like like even that, like I feel like this breath of fresh air.

It's and again, it's not about being perfect, it's about being consistent. So you might miss in one week you're gonna have a lot more. But our consultants, they're working for such long hours and we set a quarterly rock that all of us would get out at five o'clock. And every week we actually start asking, like, how is it? And it's shocking. We have seven consultants, and I've been watching all of them start to trend more and more and more to personal life. I've also watched happiness levels increase across our consultant team. I've watched burnout become less and less, and they're still able to take care of their clients, they're still able to work with their

Teams, they're still able to get their things done. We just consolidate. We also started having it where like every Monday people list off how many hours they have available for the week. Like, hey, how many hours do you have? Looking at the schedule, who's got time? And then we're using each other within the department to help each other out. So that way people aren't getting burnt out. We've got people who have hours of time. They're not as busy. You might have an assistant or a hygienist who's not as busy. What do people have on their workload? Can we share the workload with each other? Can we pass out the recare list, the reactivation list? Like, how can we do this to where we all get out at five? We're all committed to it.

Let's all work together as a team. Let's all get our pieces done so that way we're all together. But I think for you, don't answer messages at night. If you knew I'd pay you a million dollars for the next month, okay? Million dollars is on the line. For the next month, you didn't do any work after five. I'll give you till 5.15 because your patients might go. 515 and on the weekends you're not touching work. Would you do it for a month? A million dollars is on the line. And I know every one of you would say yes to me. So if you're gonna say yes to that,

Your life is worth more than a million dollars. Your health is worth more than a million dollars. So you do have a million dollars on the line for you. I'm not paying you. You're paying yourself this. So create those boundaries and dedicate this time. For me, I do have on the weekends. I've got one hour, two hours. I'm gonna block my week on Sundays. Like I do that. That's part of it. I'm okay with that. That's something that I don't take away from my family. Jason knows it. We're good. I've got it. But it allows me to decompress and I'm able to be there present with him. I literally.

Control my calendar. So my calendar doesn't control me. I am actively creating my life and man, I'm not managing my circumstances. I'm creating my life. So for you, I used to think like working harder was better. No, there's a place to work hard and there's a place to play hard and there's a place to sleep hard and there's a place to rest hard. All of those are important. So block your CEO time and guard that. Block your family time and guard that. Block your personal recharge time and block and like honor all three of those equally.

You're doing it with your production, so I know you're capable of doing it. Shut off, be done at five. Go give yourself that freedom. And like even me saying that, I feel this weight come off my shoulders. So I would say schedule those three non-negotiable blocks of time every single week. Treat it like production time, non-negotiable. You will be shocked at the life you will get back and the burnout will go away very quickly. Now, you might be like me, there was one summer I was completely burnt out. I sent I slept 17 hours a day for almost an entire month.

Sometimes we're so far into the burnout phase that we have to give some massive recharge. And like just taking this isn't going to be enough. You might have to schedule in a week off or you just sleep nonstop. But once we get to that point, and I'd say don't wait to that point. Like let's start doing some things proactively now. it is capable, it is doable. And these are some tactical things that I would say put it in now. Let's put some guardrails in and let's protect that very, very, very strongly. And then number three is build a practice that supports your life.

So and we always say that your business should serve your life, not the other way around. And so like I think you should just ask yourself and like it's okay, pull out the crayons, like let's get the canvas back out. What do you want your life to look like? And we do this with our doctors when they start with us, like how many days do you want to work? What kind of a schedule do you want? What role do you want long term, like in one year, three year, 10 year? And then let's put into place and start making your practice work for you. So if you tell me I only want three days, fantastic, let's work for it.

What is our bam? What's our production? Let's build this just a math equation. And I love because math always maths. So let's just build it. What does it need to look like? And what I've watched is when people are living their dream life when they're having it. Now, ego plays. For me, I keep saying, like, I only want to work three days. But my ego is so strong and she really wants to be just important. So I need something to fill that time that's equally as important. I have Jace and I now have a side gig that we do on Fridays together. And it makes it to where like I have a set thing that

full like fuels me, fuels my spouse. and we do it on Fridays together. And so I do. I've got I've got other CEO responsibilities that are not Dental A Team specific. But even if I didn't have something else, that's okay as a CEO. You're allowed to to have your business, serve your life. You do not need to work constantly. You are allowed to have whatever life you want. And so let's let's put those systems into place. Let's have leaders in place that are freaking thriving on it and they want to do this. Let's like make our decisions based on vision, not on guilt.

Like that's what we're gonna do. And so you can reduce your clinical days. We can hire people for that. me and a doctor were working and we just created this like awesome two year vision. I'm so pumped. I was like, okay, in two years, like let's build this. Like, what's your tenure? And I was like, sweet, let's build it into a two year. To be able to help people see it. Sometimes we can't see that. Sometimes we don't think we're worthy of it. Sometimes we I don't know. I think we just get in a rut and robotic and then we just forget that, like, no, no, no, we're the creators of our lives, not the managers of them. You get to create this.

You didn't build yourself a prison. You build yourself freedom. But it depends on which route you're gonna go and if you're actually gonna live it. So you've got to have your practice supporting your life, not the other way around. So I want you to look down, like what your, you can write down what your ideal work looks like, what it's gonna look like in one year, three years, ten years, and then like let's just work backwards. Some of you get so stuck and you're like, I don't know, how do I get my team bought into it? Your team wants you to thrive.

Your ego wants you to just survive. Like it's usually ego that keeps us there. It's not really our team. It's not all those excuses we tell ourselves. It's not that mental load that we're carrying constantly. That mental load is heavy. It's a constant guilt running and guilt's not serving. It's just keeping you stuck. So if you've been feeling exhausted, overwhelmed, trapped, or even none of those, like I just want you to know you're not alone. Let's put into place these safeguards. Let's let's have this where number one, we're going to stop being the solution to every problem. Number two,

We're gonna create those boundaries around our personal time and we're gonna block them like we do our production time. We're gonna honor them, we're gonna value them. It's our CEO time, our family time, and our personal recharge time. Block those. And then we're gonna build a practice that truly supports our life. And we're gonna be so committed and know that we deserve every ounce of this. And we're we are so committed that we're gonna get it. Non-negotiable. Pretend a million dollars, billion dollars, whatever you want, your dream car, your dream vacation, whatever it is, it's on the line. If you'll just show up for yourself. I think so often burnout comes because we're not willing to.

Reduce the load. I think a lot of it is self-induced, and then I think a lot of it is just habit. We've been doing it for so long that we don't know a different path. But I will say that other path is always there. The HOV lane is always open. Let's get over into that HOV lane. Let's start doing things easier. You deserve it. You are a billion dollar asset. Treat yourself like it. You guys have this. You don't have to work harder. You just need to have it be a like we've had one formula and it's been running. There's nothing wrong with it. But if we want a different life, there's another formula that we can start running, and I'd encourage you to do so.

So that's what we do. We help you build leadership teams. We help you build your vision. We help get your team bought into that vision. We could give you the permission to shut off at five. We tell you, like, stop, grab a PA, like a personal assistant, hire this person. Like these things you don't have to do. You're welcome to keep doing it. There's no force on our side. There's no judgment on our side. There's just love and unconditional love to make sure you are taken care of. So reach out. I'd love to help you. You can grow your business and you don't have to sacrifice your life. It's not one or the other. It can be an and. And I hope you choose that. And I hope you know you're worthy of it. I hope you know you're worth it.

And I hope you know that it is possible. So come be a part of it. There's so many of our doctors that live their best lives. I got one doctor who's a million-dollar practice working three days a week, wants nothing more than that, and is so freaking happy and is an incredible leader. I have another doctor. They work four days a week. They got a three and a half million dollar practice. Incredible, incredible. They could build another location. They don't want to. We got it set up for their kids, their life. They're on vacation. They're able to serve and get back to their community. Whatever your life is, it's doable for you. I've got others that have like five locations and they're so happy with it.

Whatever your life is, it's doable. So let's make it, let's create it, let's not manage it. You guys, I'm proud of you. I'm proud of the life you're living. Reach out, [email protected]. And as always, thanks for listening. I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team podcast.

Key performance indicators are fundamental to a successful practice. But what about their dark side? Kiera shares how to know whether those metrics are telling you the right information or not, including what a false sense of KPI security can look like, common mistakes when reviewing those numbers, and how to keep your greater vision in tune with the indicators.

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Transcript:

Kiera (00:00)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners, this is Kiera, and today's topic makes me giggle. because I feel like I'm such like hot to trot on KPIs, and I talk about them all the time. And this is gonna be like the other side of the coin of KPIs. And are your KPIs actually lying to you? Dun dun dun, like are those metrics actually not telling you what you want to know on it, like makes me giggle. And I loved because we've been podcasting for golly, so many years. I mean, I think about the conversations we've had together, the

tactical tips, the leadership growth, the confidence in becoming a CEO and running your business. And if you're not there, great. Come join us. Like let's take the easy route. You don't have to listen to all thousand plus episodes. you can take the like hit that easy button. My last name used to be Staples. So hit that easy button and come join us. But I felt like today would be a fun twist for myself as a podcaster and a podcast host of let's talk about like when do your KPIs actually lie to you because you can have some sexy numbers but still not be making money. And you'll be like, well what is going on?

Right? Your CP is like, you're doing great. And you're like, but I feel broke. your trainer at the gym is like, you're doing great. And you're I don't have the six pack. I feel like KPIs can be lying to you. And so I think it's a like, let's make sure that our numbers are telling us the entire story. And let's make sure that if they're healthy, our practice really is healthy and you know how to use your KPIs rather than be used by those KPIs. So number one, I hope you're tracking KPIs. If you don't know what a KPI is, it's a key performance indicator. I call them the vitals of your practice. So let's make sure that our

Our height, our weight, our blood pressure, our heart rate, all those are healthy and that they're tracking correctly. And if not, then like let's figure out how to fix those for your practice. Because they're not like our KPIs aren't a report card. They're KPIs are clues. And our whole consulting team, we have a KPI scorecard, and we all know that that is like the tip of the iceberg. And if one of those numbers is off or if all of them aren't looking right, we need to go and dig and dig and dig to make sure that they're correct. So I want to walk you guys through how something like KPIs can create some false sense of security, which ones to look for.

What are some mistakes that people often have when they do review their numbers? And then what are like maybe a couple of ways for us to make sure that those metrics are actually helping you to make better decisions? So, as you guys know, we're Dental A Team. I'm Kiera Dent. I'm obsessed with all things dentistry and obsessed with you. I want you to have your yes success life. I want you to have everything you want. I want your practice to serve your life. I want you to be profitable and successful. I want you to have structure and systems and stability where you just feel confident to be able to scale to the level that you want. There is no

Check mark and Dental A Team There is no you need to hit this level of practice ownership. It is what is your life? What is your dream? Let's make that a reality. And then let's make sure that you're doing it in the easiest, most efficient, fun way. Our job is to Posivate, impact the world of dentistry in the greatest way possible. And I'm so happy you're here. If I could give you a giant hug, I would. If I could give you a high five and tell you you're doing better than you think you are, I would. So just take those today. Give yourself a squeeze, give yourself a high five. And just remember, as business owners, it can be hard, it can be challenging, but it doesn't need to be.

So let's make sure that we're we're showing up, that we're rising up, and that we're being the best that we can be. And today I really want you to like stop chasing numbers and actually like understand your KPIs and what it's actually telling you. So step number one is gonna be like let's stop looking at KPIs in isolation. So like one KPI does not tell you the whole story. And so like a lot of times we'll say like production's up, we're all celebrating, but our profit's down. You're like, this doesn't make sense. Like we're producing more, but we're not profitable. Like it feels like this like very off-kilter scale.

That's like, well, if production goes up, my profit should go up. But that's not always the case. What about like our new patients are up, but our schedule still isn't full? Like, what is this? Or maybe like collections, they're up, like we're hitting at collections, but our AR is growing and our bank accounts not getting better. Like, why? Like that number is healthy with air quotes. So what we've got to look for is like, what is the relationship between the numbers and what's the driving result of the KPI and using the KPI as a system, not just an isolated piece. So

When we look at this, we want to make sure that like while production could be high, let's make sure our payroll and our overhead's actually where it needs to be. Because sometimes our production can go up and our payroll goes up. So we're hoping that production and profit go hand in hand, but sometimes they don't. So we need to figure out like numbers don't lie, but they can mislead us. So I don't want you sitting there like, well, my production's great. That could be false. Our profit could be high. That could be false. We need to be looking at the whole story, the entire, like it's.

you know, I can have good blood pressure, but what if my heart's not doing as well? Or what if my, I don't know, my I don't know all the medical terms, but there's other things like what if my cholesterol's not doing well, but that would never show up if you're looking at my heart rate. So there's just different ways and I think it's the same thing. So when we look at the vitals, this is why we get labs that are comprehensive on us. That's why we look at multi data points of our bodies. It's the same thing with your practice. So let's make sure that it's like KPIs are clues, but they're not a conclusion. And you gotta know the whole

the whole picture of this. So what I would do is like when we look at it, production should be tied. Like I usually look like my my first step is going to be looking at your production collection, making sure those are sitting at like a 98% ratio of each other. I'm looking at your like and I want net production, not gross production. Then I'm gonna be looking at the profitability of your practice because those ones are going to tell me a lot, just production collection and profitability. Those ones are going to tell me a lot. And if one of those is off, then I know can I go dig into this, this or this? Like

If your production's not hitting what we need it to be, fantastic. We need to go dig. We need to look at our case acceptance. We need to look at our hygiene. We need to look at our period. Like those things are gonna help us. I'm gonna look at your block scheduling, but that's gonna dip. Now, if our collections, they could be high, but we need to make sure like again, if our profitability is not there, collections could be high, but what's our AR? Ped practices have like two to five million sitting in AR and they didn't even know that. Well, that would make sense when you're like, well gosh, I feel broke.

You could be having 105% collections, but you're broke because we didn't collect that money last year or months prior. So again, they don't they need to go hand in hand, which then ties into like step two, which is going to be focus on the leading indicators, not the lagging ones or results. And this I think is really tricky with KPIs because a lot of our KPIs are lagging indicators, like production, collections, profitability, where the leading indicators, and I always hated lag and lead. I like, these people are so dumb. I don't understand it. Like, ugh, like.

But they do like what leads into production? Well, that's gonna be unscheduled treatment. That's gonna be our case acceptance, that's gonna be our hygiene reappointment percentage, that's gonna be how full our schedule is, that's gonna look at our new patient conversion, it's gonna look at our block scheduling. Those are gonna be leading indicators. So we could be tracking how many unscheduled treatment calls did we make. We could be tracking what our case acceptance is to see are we closing enough cases? We should be looking at our hygiene reappointment rate that's gonna help me see if my hygiene schedule is full.

We're gonna look to see how filled out our schedule is at certain points in the month to see are we filling enough? Are we diagnosing enough? We can also be looking at our diagnosis percentage and see how much we're actually diagnosing. All those things are gonna drive you to where you actually can see, is my practice healthy? Is my practice not healthy? So when we do these items together, they're going to give you visible warning signs before you hit a plummet. So if you're just looking at production, collection, profit, which are the main ones I go after, because like, hey, if those are there, they're usually pretty good.

But what leads to it. And sometimes what can happen is collections can dip automatically very quickly and be like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Or production can drop really quickly. If you're not looking at case acceptance, unscheduled treatment, reappointment percentages, those quick items, you can get into hot water real fast because we could be like production, production, production, and then all of a sudden we have a September. Okay, well, why do we have a September? Please. And everyone's like, it's because kids go to school. And I'm like, is there a way though that even with kids going to school and this and that, if we knew that?

If we strategically scheduled and we called all of our unscheduled treatment, because not everybody is going back to school, you still have elderly people that are not in that population. So what if in August we started targeting elderly populations that do not have kids at school? We're not targeting those younger families and we're making sure that they're in there, that they've got deposits paid for their treatment. We're calling on scheduled treatment starting in July. And August, we're calling our recare and we're making like 50 outbound calls a day. That's going to help proactively prevent this.

Those are leading measures that don't hit us on the lag when our productions all of a sudden suck Tember. Can we look for this? Can we look cyclically across the board of which are my lower months? Can we schedule vacations during that time if we know they're historically lower? Can we proactively put like ortho cases? Let's do an Invisalign day where we actually pump our September. So we're always doing ortho and September like back to school braces or those types of things. Like, could you start doing some of those things? Those are leading indicators that make it to where.

Before the production drops, we are proactively looking ahead. So I love to have KPIs that are leading and lagging, but the best KPIs are going to predict the future, not explain the past. So when I get my PL from ICPA, that's why you're all annoyed because you're like they said I did great, but now I feel broke. Well, it's because they're always looking one month retroactively and you're living in real time today. Your bank account doesn't match. Like you did great. And you're like, yeah, but I already spent it. It's because your PL is such a lagging measure.

You get it, but there's nothing. So what's our leading? What could we be doing? What do we look at? Let's look ahead. Let's see how far booked out we are. Let's see our new patient conversion rate. Let's see how many case acceptance we have. Let's look at how many patients are on our unscheduled treatment list. Let's look at our recare list. Now, if those are up to date and current, then we know we need to be pumping more new patients in there. But if we're not watching those leading measures, which those are the annoying ones to track, those are the annoying ones. People don't want to live in leading measures. Nobody out there wants to be like, okay, care, I made my like 25 calls of unscheduled treatment today.

Team members are like, I'm so busy answering the phone and just keeping the schedule full. But what they don't realize is if you make those outbound calls every single day, every day, non-negotiable, just like we brush our teeth, have that as part of it, those leading measures. If we are reviewing our cases every single week to see how we did so we can proactively improve our case acceptance every single week, we are proactively doing those things and we just stick them in on routine, you're not gonna have the dips nearly as often as you currently do. We tend to live in firefighting reactive KPIs.

rather than in proactive looking to see what we can do. For us it was always like, okay, how many, how many calls have we booked? That is such a lagging measure versus how many outbounds did we make? We can control the outbounds, but yet so many people don't want to do that. So I'd recommend absolutely 100% step two is let's make sure we're also tracking leading measures, not just lagging measures. And then the other piece is like don't just chase a metric where we're ignoring like

what actually is happening. Like why are we even looking at this metric? So if we're only looking at production, well then we can have like stress and we forget about patient experience and all that. So again, numbers are should be like like I feel like they're the table of contents of the book. And we don't miss the book because we read the table of contents. It gives us the quick highlight. But ultimately production's impacted by great patient experience. It's going to be impacted by

having great case acceptance. It's gonna be having that warm connection with each other. And so when we look at these KPIs, and this is where a lot of times KPIs like they should drive behavior. Like they should tell us where we're lacking, where we're dropping the ball, where we could improve. They should be telling us what behavior should change in the practice. That's why we look at them as a key performance indicator. It's like the lights that pop up and they tell us like, hey, we're going too fast or we're going too slow. Like great, it should be telling us how we're tracking on those.

But it shouldn't be replacing stress. And like that's the only thing we care about. we don't want to have it to where we're like so many times people are like, well, we could get more patients in if we just cut hygiene and we've dropped it to 45 minutes. And I'm like, you're not wrong. But like, what's our ultimate goal? Like, what are we ultimately trying to achieve? And is there a space where if we kept 60 minute hygiene appointments, could we maybe possibly serve our patients more? So let's do a focus of we're all gonna hit our fluoride.

We're gonna do fluoride, that's a great thing. Then we're gonna move it into fluoride therapy where we do fluoride and toothpaste. Then we're gonna make sure that we're doing scans in the next six months. Like I do them in six month chunks for hygiene. I know like we can't like dump everything on the hygienist. They gotta have like a few things. If we know September's coming, let's start doing scans in Q2 so that way we have all of our orthoscans already pre-done for three months before we even get to that level where we start to have it where it's gonna drop on us.

That's where we become obsessed with making sure we focus on the patients and we use our KPIs. To me, they're like a forecast and a projections if you use them correctly. They can also be a like nail in the coffin and you're like, well, shoot, our production's down, our collections are down, we got to fix that. So it's how can I look retroactively and see what do we do? How can I use leading measures to proactively make sure that we don't get into that? But then put those two together and ultimately tie those under the vision and the goal and make sure that they're driving us towards that.

That's what it should be. The top of everything, the umbrella over all those. Like if you want to think of an umbrella and your KPIs are like the the spokes that hold the umbrella, the the core umbrella over the top is what's our vision and what's the purpose of our practice? and if your KPIs like if you're just production, production, production, that's not who you ultimately want to be. Like if we're just profit, profit, profit, like yeah, you should be. But ultimately, like, yeah, I'm gonna say like profit's number one. To me, we have a rule.

We don't lose money. That's been my rule. That's been my standard since I started the company. And I stand by that because cash flow is the most scary thing as a business owner, in my opinion. so profit is number one for me, and I will always make decisions based on that. but profit in conjunction with possibly impacting the world, the dentistry in the greatest way possible. Pro profitability in conjunction with having a place where team members love to work. You can have both. It can be an and it doesn't need to be an or.

You can have both of those. You can be obsessed with a patient experience and production. You can be obsessed with having the best patient experience and having a very profitable business. Both of those coexist. And so using your numbers as a compass, using them as a guide, and making sure that we're we're headed towards the ultimate destination of our our vision and our mission, which is why it doesn't only we do business fundamentals. We're going to work with you on getting your vision and your mission and your core values like.

What ultimately is your goal as a business owner? What do you want your life to be? That's the ultimate goal. Jump more freedom. And guess what? It's written in pencil. You can erase it, you can redraw it any day you want. It doesn't have to be set in stone and like we we chiseled that sucker out. No, this is a like, it's in pencil. So what does I what do I want my life to look like today? Because when we achieve it, we might want it to look differently. Or as we're walking up that mountain, we might say,

You know, I really thought that I only want to work three days, but I love dentistry and I want to work four days. I just want to do this type of procedure. Or I love to be in the practice, but I want to do two days clinical and I want to do two days of mentorship. That is totally allowed. Your business should just serve that. Your business should be the one that's there. So that's the ultimate arching is your KPIs then should be like the guiding pillars to that in leading and lagging measures. So this is where your KPIs, KPI numbers don't lie.

But isolated numbers can definitely give false positives and false negatives if they're not seen altogether. So, like just a quick recap is don't look at your KPIs in just isolation. Make sure that we're tracking leading and lagging indicators. And then make sure that ultimately all of those are headed towards our greater vision of where we ultimately want to go. That's how we use KPIs. That's how we use numbers too, to make sure that we're actually headed in the direction we want to go.

And you are welcome to have one of those in isolation. You're welcome to have KPIs that just sit on their own. You're welcome to have where we only are tracking lagging measures. You're welcome to have like we only think about our vision and our mission, and that's what we care about, and everything will follow. I will say you're welcome to do that. I would say an easier path that helps you have all the data and the best data points is going to be where you put all three of those together, where you're able to look at them simultaneously, use them as data points to ultimately make your best decisions because KPIs are incredibly powerful.

But only if they're used correctly, even if they're used to be tools, not like like goals or stars to guide by, not sticks to beat ourselves with. I don't care. Like we're just we're like, I don't believe in failures. I just believe that there are results. So are we getting the result we're looking for or not? And if not, let's change and adjust. if we're constantly missing production, what are maybe a couple leading measures that we could do? Also having too many KPIs, you get lost in data and you can't actually see what you need to do. So simplifying it, having less is more.

making sure we're actually tracking outcomes rather than activity. Like what I usually say like reduce unscheduled treatment by 10% every single month. So I don't care how many calls you make. Yes, I know I said like make 25 calls. You can do task or you can do outcome. I prefer outcome based, but you might just be starting out and can't figure out that outcome. So like let's start with 25 calls a day. It's easy, all of us can do it. We can track it. Ultimately the goal is that our schedule is always full and we're putting enough outbound calls to make sure that when patients are canceling, which is gonna happen, they're gonna move their appointments.

that we're always able to get our schedule up to what we want it to be and we're not stressed, we're not going chaotic. So if you feel like you listen to this, you're like, you're I don't even know where to start, or like we're kind of doing this, we're halfway doing it, or I'm looking at this, but I don't know how to get my team bought into it. This is what we do. This is how we're able to help you. We're able to help you put it all together. Let's build your vision, let's build that mission, let's figure out where we're headed with no guilt, no judgment, just your life. Like, hey, grab the crayons, grab the confetti, like let's make what you want this life to be.

Then let's figure out which KPIs are going to lead us to that. Let's figure out which leading measures we need to help your team get on board with and why. Get them bought into the vision and the mission. And then we're able to help maintain and contain that consistency for you. So this is the zone. You usually don't need like a lot more reports. We just need clarity to cut through and to look at the things that really matter and put them together so we're not doing them in isolation. So you're not getting hit with those surprises, but actually being able to be proactive on that. So this is where I'm obsessed with helping offices have their dream life, look at the numbers.

use the numbers, not be used by the numbers and to get a team bought into it at whatever level you want. There is no set path. There is no set, every team has to do this. It's what's your vision, what's your life? How do we make sure that you're profitable and successful? And then how do we build the systems, the structure for scalability for you of whatever that looks like for you. So reach out. I'd love to help you out. [email protected]. And as always, thanks for listening and I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team podcast.

In this episode, Tiff and Nikki talk about a critical piece under the marketing umbrella: networking with people in your community across different "genres" of expertise. They discuss knowing your demographic, building a two-way street of referrals, leaning on your hobbies, and a ton more ways to get your business out there and being talked about.

Episode resources:

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Transcript:

Tiffanie (00:01)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners. We are excited to be here. I say it every single time and we truly, truly mean it. I think you guys believe me and know that by now Nikki is here with me today. Nikki, thank you so much for being here. this is our podcasting morning and we block out the a morning, we do a couple hours and make sure that we get the best content we possibly can out to everyone. I'm actually really excited about this one. We just talked through it. for those of you who don't know, our marketing company, they

comb the internet and they comb our calls, they look through all of the data and information they possibly can and look for the best topics they can help us think of, and then they deliver those topics over to us. So for all of you out there, if there's a topic, subject that you've loved you want more of, please let us know. If there's a topic that you're like, gosh, I wish these ladies would just talk about this or dive into this more, let us know. [email protected]

you can tag any one of us in there. Doug is our podcast guru in the background today. and of course we're the ones recording them. So if you've got ideas, we love ideas. We love nothing more than to bring you the stuff that you guys actually need. So Nikki, how are you this morning? Thank you for being here. We were talking earlier about our random Arizona summer storm, which I think it's gone and it's like just hot and humid now, and here we are. So anyways, how are you today?

Nikki Mack (01:23)

so good. I know recovering all the damage, you know, the flipped over chairs, the lawn furniture. Nothing flew out of the yard this storm. So always a win, but I'll take it. The hot is worth it because the storms are beautiful. And

Tiffanie (01:37)

They are.

Nikki Mack (01:37)

in a couple months it's gonna be amazing. We're gonna be really, really happy. Maybe we podcast outside. Just kidding. That's crazy. But

Tiffanie (01:44)

you would be so happy.

Nikki Mack (01:45)

happy to be here this morning inside in my AC in the aftermath of the storm for sure.

Tiffanie (01:52)

Same. Kiera and I did podcast because I think we've done it twice. We've done we've podcasted from South Mountain here in Arizona. Yeah. And

Nikki Mack (01:59)

Amazing.

Tiffanie (02:00)

that was when that was I mean that was gosh, we were just starting. That was a long time ago. And then we've podcasted from a mountain across the street from her house in Nevada. So and that was our I think that was our birthday podcast last year or the year before. So you never know. We might end up outside. I do love being outside as an Arizona native.

as I'm sure you do as well when it's not 115 or humid. Yeah. Arizona

Nikki Mack (02:25)

When it's one hundred and fifteen.

Tiffanie (02:28)

doesn't do well with humidity. Like it's been a little humid this summer, and I'm like by a little I mean like there's been like five to ten percent humidity out there, and you feel every ounce of it. So I'm ready for just good weather. so with that, thinking about outside, thinking about outside of ourselves, I love

marketing. It's one of my favorite things in the whole wide world. Like to me, I think communication is marketing. Like I'm constantly marketing myself, right? Who I am, how I show up, and like how I speak to people is marketing. I I just think marketing is showing up in a certain way to get the result that you want. And people overextend it, they overcomplicate it and they think that they have to do it a very certain way. And the reason marketing is

It's a an amazing tool, but the reason it sucks is because it's really hard to like guarantee results, right? So there isn't a certain way. There are multiple stabs in the dark that we take to get different results. And luckily, our blessing is that we get to see a lot of those different ways. We have a lot of practices. We've worked in a lot of practices. We've taken shots in the dark and

really figured out and narrowed in some things that work. And today I really wanted to talk about like strategic community networking and becoming partners with different people in the in the community, different networks in the community and just different genres outside of dentistry. And I think it's really important for dental practices and dental practice owners, business owners in general to do this. I know Toastmasters used to be like this massive thing. It's still here. Like I know someone who does Toastmasters and

She's like the shyest, like most internal person. She's like, I will learn how to talk to people. And so like Toastmasters is still a thing, but the best thing about Toastmasters is wasn't hasn't always been that you learn how to speak in public. It's the community that you build and those referrals, right? And you know, my fiance is a business professional and

Within his profession, he goes to networking events a lot. He's not a good, like he he's a very internal person as well. But he goes and he does these networking events because then he can refer his own clients or his friends. We've used people to, you know, by referral. And building that network totally changes the game because it's a bit like it's a forward and backwards. Like I refer to you, you refer to me, we know each other.

We help each other, all of those different pieces. So I wanted to talk a ton today about how to strategically build that community as a small business owner and a dental practice owner, you know, in any town. And Nikki to your point earlier and maybe speak to this a little bit, you were saying the reason that we and the reason marketing isn't super cookie cutter.

is because we all live in different demographics. But I do think we have some great ideas that could work anywhere. But Nikki, take us through some of what you were talking about there. Like why does it make a difference that where we live?

Nikki Mack (05:42)

Absolutely.

Also, quick nerd alert. Five years in Toastmasters back in the day. So a hundred percent.

Tiffanie (05:47)

There you go, I knew it. I should have known that.

Nikki Mack (05:52)

yeah, I think when we talk about, you know, things not being cookie cutter and knowing your demographic marketing, especially, especially if we're talking community outreach, is a huge place to be in. you know your demographic. This isn't even where I'm like, okay, doctor, sit down and like think about your patients. You know your patience, your team knows your patients.

What is important in your area? What are the things that people post about, go to, talk about? And then being able to lean into that opportunity. Do you have if you're a pediatric office, right? We were just talking about this one. are you right in the middle of a bunch of school districts or a lot of school areas? Do the school nurses have your office information, right? do you participate in teacher appreciation week?

Like what does your outreach look like in those areas? Because not just for the teachers who deserve the world, of course, but also that's when they talk to parents, right? Or the parents that come and see who's taking care of their teachers as well, you're building that not just relationship, but that reputation. And that's what really drives those referrals, that culture, that everything we talk about. Now, maybe if you're a very specialized, I don't know, periodist.

sponsoring teacher appreciation day might not yield the same results, right? So this is where I say, like, know your area, know your demographic. every city has a chamber of commerce, right? the action level and what you kind of get for that membership varies everywhere. But if you look into it and it responds well with your culture and what you're driven, especially if you're very community focused and they do have a lot of those opportunities.

Reach out, right? You know, sign up, try it out for a year. Usually it's an annual membership or so, because the relationships you're gonna build to Tiff's point with those other business owners in the community too are going to be very impactful and possibly spread that reach even further than you would have thought of. And a network who's also trying to actively market and grow their business, what a resource. Because we may not all

Tiffanie (08:02)

I see.

Nikki Mack (08:02)

be dental, but we can share best practices.

share opportunities and even partner on certain things sometimes. So knowing your demographic, knowing what's really key and crucial, so important. If you're a downtown people commute in, you're right by all the businesses, well, the community pieces might look a little different for you. And so maybe you find out that who did what who did we use Wells Fargo, right?

Tiffanie (08:29)

Mm-hmm.

Nikki Mack (08:30)

Wells Fargo corporate building is a block from your office.

Does that HR lady know your name, right? Are you guys in network or do you file out of network for them? Knowing your audience is a great way to start before we just cause marketing when it doesn't work is exhausting. So let's be strategic to start and and get some really good results.

Tiffanie (08:54)

Yeah, I love all of that. All of that. There are a few pieces there I wanna point out. You said referrals, right? Well, you said periodonist that might not yield the same results and it made me think, Okay, well, how much work are we doing to build the relationship back with those referring practices? I know when I was in that or in office I used to ha have a gosh, get my words together, an orthodontist.

that was really had a really close relationship with our doctor because of a community networking group that they were a part of outside of the dental practice and they routinely sent us families because families found them without a GP dentist because they knew their kid, their teenager needed braces, right? So they'd go to the orthodontist but need a GP dentist so they'd refer him over. Same with periodonists, you know, people look up implant, they end up at an oral surgeon or or a periodontist and they don't have a GP. You guys need them.

To have a GP, so you send them over. So making sure we're building that two-way street of referrals is huge. The Chamber of Commerce, I love this Chamber of Commerce situation and I've seen it really spike up recently with a few practices that we're working with. And I I have one that comes to mind and he'll know exactly who he is. he joined the Chamber of Commerce a few years ago. He's one of the business owners, but he's also the the like practice manager. He manages the business manager, right?

He joined the Chamber of Commerce for their practice when they relocated into a bigger building and he did it in order to really get to know the community. They lived outside of their community, about an hour outside the community that they worked in for a long time. Then they decided to move to that area, and now they're about five minutes down the road from the practice, which is super convenient. But they didn't feel like they knew the community. They felt like they were outsiders and they wanted to be more invested and involved. So they joined the Chamber of Commerce.

And they really started showing up at different events. They started doing, he did a leadership course through the Chamber of Commerce and through the the City Community College there. He knows everyone in that town. Like they have so many connections and so many amazing businesses that support them and vice versa, they support. And something that I don't think people really understand about the Chamber of Commerce is that it's like just that networking piece, the emails that say, hey,

We've got a ribbon cutting event coming up. Like, cool, there's a ribbon cutting event for a small business. Let me go show face and shake hands and say hello to the new owner and welcome them to business ownership. If there's anything that you come across, by all means, I've been through a lot. I might not know it all, but I might have something to offer and just be a neighbor, like be a friendly neighbor. Those community networking pieces could go so far.

And something else you made me think of. I don't remember why I thought of it, but I thought I think you said knowing your demographics, and you said like what what plays to them, right? And then I thought, Nikki, I've never thought of this before, and I think it might be gold mine. I'm not sure. What

Nikki Mack (11:55)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (11:56)

are your hobbies? Right? What do you love to do? So I'm thinking we're in Phoenix, so we have a lot of foodies, right? We've got a million restaurants here. So what if a dentist who is a foodie who loves food or a team member

Who is a foodie and loves food, and they go and they try all these restaurants, and you're out there, right? I have we have a restaurant in downtown Buckeye, Arizona. It's phenomenal, best Mexican food I've ever had in my life. And I have grown up in Arizona. Best food. Okay. I tell everyone about this place. What what if your dental practice that's like, hey, these are our monthly newsletters, and also let me highlight our restaurant this month.

what restaurant did we go to and we love in our community or in thirty minutes from here? Because now it's become something that's not just brush your teeth, floss. Like people don't I'm not gonna lie, most people are not reading those. Like they're not they're not. They're just not, right? But if you catch their attention with something like the best hike I've taken since I've lived in Arizona, best hike of the month, best restaurant, best ice cream. I have a doctor who loves popcorn. Like where are you getting your best popcorn? What's your

popcorn flavor this month. Like spice it up a little bit with something that's different. Because as I was as you were speaking earlier and I thought of that, I thought, how cool would it be to be like, you're going to that restaurant? I've actually heard of that. And I'm like, where did you hear about it? It's so obscure. And they're like, actually my dentist. Who's your dentist? Because now you've just created a new conversation topic that you can insert yourself into in a network of people across your whole city.

Nikki Mack (13:37)

Yeah, absolutely. It makes me think of do you know how sometimes coffee shops or like little bakeries or cafes will have like the question of the day and you

Tiffanie (13:46)

Mm-hmm.

Nikki Mack (13:47)

answer when you come in? I've seen some dental practices do that, right? Like they have

Tiffanie (13:51)

Yeah.

Nikki Mack (13:52)

their question of the week or you know, question of the month. and it's just that fun little connection, like you said, and especially if it's something community driven, like what's your favorite Mexican place around here? What's your favorite restaurant? Who's your favorite coffee shop?

to drive kind of that conversation and connection because yeah, then if someone goes and tries it, it's like, how did you hear about us? And you're like, my dentist, actually.

Tiffanie (14:13)

Yeah.

Nikki Mack (14:14)

it's such a like full circle moment, especially if it's someone that you have partnered with in the past, whether it's meeting each other at a ribbon cutting or you know being at some other event, or they just maybe they're a patient too, right? Like there's always those small world connections and finding ways to close those little links there.

it's always such a neat and unique opportunity because this is why we talk about referrals are the best source for patients because you're it's patients you love referring people they love, right? To come into your practice and they know who you are and like what your culture is. And so when you build those relationships with our networking sources or referral sources and opportunities, it's that same type of environment where they're gonna be referring people

that

fit like what you're looking for and kind of fit that mold. so you just you put so many opportunities out there by by making those connections. I I love that. Also after the cast, I'll need that restaurant. we'll check it out. Okay. Yeah.

Tiffanie (15:14)

Totally. Yeah, I will. I will. I'll send it to you. It's so good. It's so

good. and also I was thinking you said, if you've partnered with that person or if they're patients, like why not host we do Invisalign days all the time, right? Or ortho days, Clearliner days, Candid Pro days, whatever you're calling them. and you also do study clubs. Like study clubs are

Nikki Mack (15:38)

Mm-hmm.

Tiffanie (15:39)

cool because you need the CE. But study clubs are not like you're not

generating a lot of referrals because it's a bunch of other dentists, right? Why not host a networking like day, right? Or or a couple hours and a networking group in your dental practice on a Friday morning from like eight to ten AM. You can have muffins and donuts and coffee and orange juice and water and invite your patients that have businesses, real estate agents, insurance brokers, financial advisors, they're all in your patient base, I promise you.

Doesn't mean you have to use them. It means, hey, I know that there's a community of people here who need a networking group. I would love to do a once a month networking group or once a quarter network networking group for two hours. Invite your patients and invite your patients to invite their friends.

Nikki Mack (16:29)

Mm-hmm.

Tiffanie (16:29)

Everyone knows somebody. So bring a buddy, maybe every third one. I mean, I would do everyone, but I would do bring a buddy. Like bring a buddy and get a free ticket.

you know, to enter to win the blackstone. I don't know. Do something, but if you were to host something like that for your patients and for local businesses nearby, bam, more. And you're just the whole point in this is marketing is is hard. Marketing is difficult. And we rely on outside sources to do a lot. And I love nothing more Nikki than to look at what can I do? What can I control?

And building a strategic community network, all all it does is start self-promoting your business. Be a good person, know good people. People talk about you. So this whole thing is not only fun, I think, and some doctors might say, like, yeah, you're crazy, you like people. Cool, have your office manager

Nikki Mack (17:26)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (17:27)

do it. Like, I don't know, ask somebody in your practice is gonna want to do something like this. But what it's doing is it's building your patient base with

out paying for new patients. It's it's a outside the box, out of the normal way of expanding your reach into your community to bring in new patients to your practice to grow your dental practice that's just completely outside the box. And I think in 2026 and whatever year moving forward, you're listening to this, outside the box is what we have to do. The norm just isn't cutting it anymore. You can't just place Google ads

And expect the floodgates to open. You can't just send postcards to your neighbors and expect the floodgates to open. You've got to do something different that gets attention. And building that community and that networking group not only helps you, but it helps all of those other people. And that's when those floodgates open, in my opinion.

Nikki Mack (18:28)

I

agree. And I think to your point with when you think outside the box and you come up with an idea, right? Or your team comes up with an idea because it's maybe something they saw or heard or read about, or maybe an idea shared on the Discord that another doctor in a different state

Tiffanie (18:42)

Yeah.

Nikki Mack (18:43)

used, right? And you're like, I want to do that. Here's what I feel like happens a lot. I want to do that, but I know I don't have time. And so I shelve

Tiffanie (18:50)

Mm.

Nikki Mack (18:50)

it. Right. Or like, I don't have the bandwidth. Like I absolutely love the network hosting idea.

I don't have the bandwidth to organize that. Well, guess what? There's probably a local group already out there that is doing these things or looking for places to meet. I know in my neighborhood area in Phoenix, we have this huge Facebook group that they do a lot for networking. There's a couple people who run it. They host networking events. They host like open table nights for the neighborhood for people to come and meet each other. And one of the things that they're always looking for is places.

to host. So

Tiffanie (19:27)

Yeah.

Nikki Mack (19:28)

maybe you don't have the bandwidth currently to create a networking group, right? And host them and do all of the the kind of legwork. Absolutely. But if you like that idea and you have the space, if you have a beautiful break room, right? Or a beautiful lobby, reach out. I bet you or someone on the team knows a local group. Do a quick little local search, right? Reach out.

make sure that they fit, you know, it's the right type of group, their their kind of vision or what they're searching out to do is what you align with. But I'll tell you what, I've been that person trying to find locations and organize groups and where to meet. And when somebody comes out like, hey, you can use my space, here's what it would look like, right? Here's how we could make it work. my gosh, like game changing. And then now you have just solidified your piece like in this network.

And now that's going to create so much opportunity because we all know once they come in the office and experience you and your team, game changer, right? And they have that

Tiffanie (20:28)

Yeah, I agree.

Nikki Mack (20:29)

opportunity to do it. So any idea, it doesn't just have to be the network hosting. But if you hear something or see something or think of something and your first thought is, I don't have the bandwidth, don't drop it. How do we pivot? What can we do? How do we adjust it? How do we tweak it so that it is something we could fit in, at least in some companies.

Capacity. And that's where your consultants come in, right? I love those messages, Nikki. I had a great idea. I'm like, yes, lay it on me. Let's talk about it. So you're not alone. You don't have to figure out how to make it work. If it's a great idea, let's work it out. Let's talk it through and see how we can make it work for your practice. You have a network. you have consultants, you have the other doctors with the Dental A Team. There's being out of the box means all hands on deck sometimes. So

Tiffanie (21:18)

I agree. one last idea, you were talking bandwidth and I I agree. And I thought, like, okay, you can you said earlier, teacher appreciation, right? Make sponsoring that could also sponsor the mommies and muffins and muffins and mom, like whatever it is, like those types of things as well. But also you could go to the donut shop or the kofi coffee shop or whatever like local small business is near you and say, Hey, here's two hundred dollars.

the next two hundred dollars worth of purchases is on me. So when somebody comes and they order their coffee, all I ask is that you let them know that we purchased it for them and we want them to have a great day. Write a little like motivational like have a great day. You are loved, you are seen, you are whatever on a little card. Give that to the desk and let the let $200 worth of money be your marketing for the morning for that coffee shop. Something

that's just different and people are like, wow, that was so unheard of. Okay, that was my last idea. Listen to this. There's a ton of ideas in here, you guys. And the biggest piece is strategically build your community. Your network, what does Kiera say? There's a there's Kiera doesn't it's not her saying, but it's someone's right. But your net worth is directly correlated to your network. And so the people that you know, the people who are help building you up, the people who are

referring back and forth, the the people that you call when business sucks and even though they're not indental, they can relate to you because they own a business. That's your network, right? So build your net worth by reaching out and building your community network. See what you can do to help other people. Nikki, this was really fun. Thank you for taking the journey with me. I know I made a lot of stops and pivots and turns, but that's what marketing is. So thank you and thank you for your time this morning that you blocked out for me.

Nikki Mack (23:13)

Always, thanks for having me. Love talking marketing. Always happy to work through stuff. So I'm really excited to see what some of our listeners come up with.

Tiffanie (23:23)

I agree. I agree. And with that, go brainstorm. Drop us a five-star review below and let us know what you did, whether it was something we suggested or something you thought of on your own. Let us know what you thought of. We want to share all of these with the community. [email protected]. We are here to help you to work through it, to brainstorm, to do all of the fun pieces. So let us know how we can best support you. And with that, we will catch you next time.

Artificial harmony is what happens when teams work alongside each other day in and day out, but never actually talk about what needs to be said.

Kiera and Dana walk listeners through why getting to the root of problems in a practice is so critical — from not just a teamwork point of view, but for the business itself — as well as where to start to turn your practice into a place where honesty and trust happens regularly.

Episode resources:

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Transcript:

Kiera (00:00)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera and today's a lucky day. I have the one and only Dana on the podcast with me. I love this. Dana, you happen to fit right in my podcasting schedule at the perfect time. So I'm getting more Dana time. You guys are getting more Dana time. Dana, how are you? Welcome to the podcast.

Dana (00:16)

excited to be here. I know it's rare. Like it's rare anymore that I get a ton of podcasting time, but especially podcasting time

Kiera (00:22)

Okay.

Dana (00:23)

with you. So I was super excited when Marisa confirmed it on my schedule. So

Kiera (00:27)

I was

too. I was because Marisa has them in like I like to start early and I like to just run. And so Dana tends to have a break between coaching calls that I'm able to like slip a podcast in. So always excited and I agree. Like Dana, we've had a we've had some good ones. And I wanted to get you on the podcast today because I feel like you've been doing some awesome things with teams. I feel like there's been this new wave of Dana going into offices because I think as a consultant, our job is to reinvent ourselves over and over and over.

Like who Dana was when she first started versus who Dana is today. Like that is a complete evolution. Who Kiera was, who offices are, like there's an evolution of that. And I think that this is the even the new evolution of team. I think the teams are shifting. I think that there's a new emergence from like even when I started the company to when you started to when we are here today. and I think you've just been doing some awesome things. So let's dive into like what are some of the fun things that we're doing for teams? What are some of the ways that you've been able to turn teams around and get to maybe like, cause I feel like a lot of people struggle with

artificial harmony is probably the best way to say it where teams are working day in and day out where they're not saying what needs to be said. And then I feel like Dana, when you and I get on calls or we show up in offices, instantly like the floodgates are open and we just get a dumping. And it's like, okay, well, clearly there's a lot you want to say, but how do we get that to be the norm in the practice rather than the abnormal? So Dana, take it away. Like, let's talk about some of the offices you've been working with, how you've been able to like

Crack that nut and get more to the root cause of problems and get teams to really gel and jive with each other better than I think we ever have.

Dana (01:55)

Yeah, this is a really exciting topic because I think it comes up in like a variable of different ways in like, okay, people want to have stronger leadership, right? They want more accountability for their team. They want a cohesive team or a culture that people love and are super excited to show up to every day. And it's funny because we might not think that this kind of all ties in together, but I've been talking so much to teams about just.

Saying the things that need to be said, communicating with each other, solving like root problems versus just

like you said, that artificial harmony.

Kiera (02:34)

Yeah.

Dana (02:35)

and I was just talking to an office actually this morning and and they're kind of creating their quarterly meeting agenda. And they're like, well, what do we do? And you know, we feel like the same people participate and the same issues kind of get brought up. And like we never kind of get beyond like that surface level. And so we kind of talked about how just having open, honest conversation about that and really building an and

Increasing team, I feel like it all kind of very like boils down to like team trust and like communicating and saying all the things that need to be said. And I said, could you have a great like if you don't address this, could you have a decent meeting, right? Where you come up with good goals, you come up with good action items, you walk away feeling pretty good. Yeah. But when you don't have that trust and vulnerability, and when you don't open and have that communication, are your meetings great?

Probably not. Do we solve the things that need to be solved? Probably not. Do we solve them forever, right? And we're all on the same page and we're super committed and then we're able to hold each other accountable? Probably not. And so I've been working a lot with a ton of teams, with leadership teams, even with owners on. We have to be able to say the things that need to be said to be able to truly.

Be committed together and truly set goals that are going to move your practice, move your team in the right direction the most.

Kiera (04:04)

Mm-hmm. And Dana, I love that you brought that up because I think, gosh, I'm like gonna like date myself and go back to like when Tiff and I first met. And I grew up in a family where artificial harmony was like status quo. Like I feel like there's a a pendulum and you either are like artificial harmony or you're like kind of like mean spirited and like a little cutthroat. Like kind of is the that pendulum swing.

And I grew up very much artificial harmony, right? Like we had like my siblings, we'd all run to my mom rather than like having a knockout drag out with each other. And as we've evolved when I met Tiff, she was very much an anti like no cure. We're just like gonna go to the root cause of this, we're gonna hash it out. And I it was very foreign and uncomfortable for me. But getting a taste of it, I was like, wow, that was so much more efficient. And that was so much easier. And I feel like I can know what's going on with Tiffanie now.

I feel like I'm not sitting here, and especially with us being in a virtual team, it was my first time running a virtual team. And I was like, whoa, like I really need to know what's going on rather than what I think. Like, there's no vibe check. Like, Dana, you and I don't get a vibe check with each other often. It's like, hello, maybe there's a little like snide slack comment that goes through, and you're like, okay, like let's check it. But that's all you get. You don't really get that vibe check. And once I feel like you you cross the bridge into trust and vulnerability, saying what needs to be said.

You can't go back. Like you are so, I don't think annoy's the right word, but you're just like, wow, there's like such a more efficient way to do this. Even my sisters, I remember a couple summers ago, my little sister, she was like still sitting in artificial harmony. And like went for it. I was like, all right, let's talk about it. I understand I can have a little bit more direct approach. I think I can maybe soften. And my little sister was like, no, like this is good. Like us having a hash, like, what's your perspective? What's my perspective? Like, let's come to that root cause.

You

and I are gonna be so much more bonded together. We'll have so much more trust with each other. I'm gonna know that what you tell me is really truth, rather than sitting here guessing, wondering, wishing, hoping like my mom doesn't need to come in and intervene between us. Like neither of us want that. And I think you can relate that to offices where no one wants the office manager or the doctor to come and intervene. Like Dana and I should be able to talk it out. We don't need Tiffanie to come in and mediate. Sometimes you do, but if you can get that as the status quo of a practice, it is fascinating to see meetings start actually become very enjoyable. People aren't bored in these meetings anymore.

actually say what needs to be said. We like you said, Dana, I feel like it's like it's the good to great. It's the like mediocre to excellent. And I think we've even watched it evolve in our consulting team. Like I was like, all right, we had a moment where I watched our consultants not give feedback that I I thought that they would have given. And it was such an amazing eye opening for me of like, all right, consultant team, like let's talk like how do we get more trust and vulnerability? How do I as a leader make it to where this feels like a safe space for you to say what needs to be said and

We worked on it this quarter and it's actually really fun to see it in our company evolve and in teams have it evolve. So, Dana, how do you like virtually and in person get teams to feel safe to start to change? Because to say what needs to be said, to healthy debate it out, to trust one another that you're not gonna go talk about me to my neighbor. And if I say something that's very off topic, like I always pull the example in an office, I'm like, all right, everybody, we're working Saturdays, and it's like crickets. And I'm like, okay, well, clearly we don't have trust.

'Cause I know none of you want to be working Saturdays. Like, let's have this and this is a good example. But I'm just curious, like, how do you even like broach this? How do you even one, I guess, like let's back it up. How do you know if your team has true trust and vulnerability? And then two, how do you start to bring more of that into the table?

Dana (07:32)

Yeah, I think it is just I usually take a gauge of okay.

I'll notice in teams, right? That we'll come up with action plans or that we'll come up and it's like we we lack sort of follow-through, right? And then there's after conversations, or there's like, well, I didn't really do this because I had all these questions, or I didn't. So like that is kind of a sign to me in my team meetings and in my meetings with teams that, like, okay, we're not really saying the things that need to be said, or we're not because we aren't moving forward, right? We aren't implementing, we aren't getting to the point where, yeah, like we had this really great meeting, we came up with these actions.

Items, we're super excited. We went and tackled them, right? So

Kiera (08:12)

Mm-hmm.

Dana (08:13)

when I have a team that kind of struggles to do those things, or they're constantly like, well, we started and it fell off, or we did like to me, that is a sign of we aren't getting to the bottom of things, we aren't getting people committed, we aren't getting people bought in, so things aren't being said. So just like you said, that crickets where like that work on Saturday.

kind of conversation, then I just start to ask questions. And I think where it gets to kind of be an eye-opening point is so many times people

feel like I had in an in a virtual team meeting, a team member's like, well, you know, I don't say the ideas I have or I don't say the issues because I don't feel like as a team member I have like the authority to, right? So then it's just looking. So then I looked at the doctor and I said, okay, do you want to know the things that are frustrating your team? Do you want to know the things that are stressing them out? Do you want to know where they feel like things are?

in inefficient. And of course the answer was absolutely yes. Like I don't

Kiera (09:10)

Uh-huh.

Dana (09:10)

want my team members beating their heads against the wall on the same things if we can come to a team meeting and we can solve it together.

And then on the flip side, I've had the conversations of when it comes to like leadership holding back or owners holding back on the things that they want to say. It's truly asking the team like, do you want to know what the expectations of you are? Do you want to know if you're doing something that frustrates an owner or stresses them out? Or do you want to know that you are aligned? And every time, right, everybody is like, yes, yes, I do.

Kiera (09:41)

Yeah.

Dana (09:42)

Then it is giving them the tools, right, to

Kiera (09:44)

Mm-hmm.

Dana (09:45)

be able to create that with themselves.

And for them to really realize that it comes from there is a lack of trust or a lack of vulnerability on one side, both sides. And like, is it between leaders and teams? Is it between team members and team members? Is

Kiera (10:02)

And you

Dana (10:02)

it and it can always be strengthened and it can always be improved? But I think just getting to like, hey, this is an issue and let's talk about it.

Kiera (10:12)

Absolutely. And I think Dana, you you brought up a lot of highlights of like they're not following through on their accountability. People are like, I want an accountable team. And if you go to like Patrick Lenciani's Five Dysfunctions of a Team, which is where a lot of this is pulled from, like bottom layer of that triangle is trust and vulnerability. Then it's healthy debate, then it's commitment, then it is peer-to-peer accountability, and then it's winning and hitting results. So when I think about that, it's like if people are not being committed, it's because they didn't hash it. So they're like,

I don't want to do that. And what happens is you get the side hallway conversations of like, Dana, I'm not doing that. Are you doing that? Like, there's absolutely no way. We're trying to cut those side hallway conversations. And that's where we tell teams. I tell all teams, I'm like, here's a safe space. Like, you guys get to say whatever you want to say. I don't care what it is. It's always with respect, it's with professionalism, and it's in the best interest of the practice. Not Dana's best interest, not Kiera's best interest. We have different perspectives. Let's bring them to the table. But all of us are here to make Dental A Team or

Whatever your practice's name is, it we're here to make it better. So as long as like those are ground rules. But I tell everyone like you have an open voice, you have an open space. And if you choose not to say it today, well, bummer, you committed to this. So you're gonna commit, you're gonna follow through because that's who we all are and that's how this team operates. But next meeting, when you're like, Dana, I don't wanna do this, we talk about it. And also as coworkers, if we hear someone saying I don't want to do that, you say like, hey, dang it, like I hear you. Next time bring it up because like we all committed.

That's how you're going to fix. And like people have to get on the same page and it gets awkward. But I'm like, if you can get 1% better every meeting, team members get very bought in. Team members then start to realize like, like I tell people, if you're not having a little bit of spicy fireworks in your meetings, you don't have enough trust and vulnerability. There should be some spice. There should be some fireworks. It's not like yelling, it's not like Dana and I are going at it. It's a Dana, like, let's talk Saturdays, right?

Dana's

like, all right, cool. So we want to work Saturdays. I don't want to work Mondays and Tuesdays. Like, let's talk about why we want to work Saturdays, why we don't want to work Saturdays, what's really like ultimately in the best interest of the business. I'm like, cool. Could Dana and I get to a point where if Saturdays really are a great practice, like practice plan, we don't necessarily have to work it. Like, that doesn't mean Dana and I have to go work it. Like, could we go find hygienists that want to work Saturdays? Like, yes. So instead of having teams shut it down, it's a let's.

Let's innovate, let's create, let's figure out what's in the best interest of the business. But all of us need to have a voice and then all of us commit. And then that's where I love the peer-to-peer accountability. Instead of it's leadership accountability, it's peer-to-peer. So if Dana's like hearing me talk, smacking those sterilization, she's supposed to call me out. And I think teams building up to this, teams realizing that this is normal. What's fascinating, I will say this for myself, it actually improved my marriage, it improved my family relationships, it improved so many things because I realize.

that that's healthy. Like that's actually a healthy culture. That's that is a harmonious whole culture, even though you're like, whoa, that doesn't feel like it, versus the ones that are sitting there silently. And when Jason and I started getting more into this, I'm like, tell me. Like I remember sitting there and I was like, I love having a good spice even with Jason. I love to be like, tell me what you think. What do I think? Like let's get to that. And I recognize some people like myself can be a bit more bold. and so I think the bold personalities need to recognize that some of the quieter personalities

give them a space to also speak up and quieter personalities, we need your voice. We need your perspective. Like it it's not you, it's just your perspective. So we can all get on the same page. But it's it's fascinating to watch the churn. And what I see is team members are going to rise up and some are going to rise out. They're going to be like, this isn't for me. I want to go back to the place of artificial harmony. But leaders when they start to see this is how this is how teams solve their own problems. This is how meetings become effective. This is how your business starts to actually like move, make traction.

evolve. Like you start to actually have functioning and and teams that don't turn over because they actually say what needs to be said and they're not sitting in that artificial harmony. Dana, what are your thoughts on that?

Dana (14:05)

Yeah, I I agree with you and I love there are gonna be team members that can come in and they can really take this on and they can embrace it. And then there's gonna be team members who use it like they put their just their big toe in it. And I just did this recently in in person with an office and it was an office where they like really wanted it. They were like, Yes, we know that we need it, we need to say the things. but it was really scary for them because they

cared about each other and so they never wanted to, you know, that fear of like, well, are they gonna hear my intention? Are they going to understand that like I'm saying it because it's for the good, right?

Kiera (14:39)

Mm-hmm.

Dana (14:40)

So what we did, and this was really cool and really helpful, and they've had so many of these conversations since I was in there, and I can't tell you how proud of them I am. We basically came up with a code word, and the code word is I'm saying something that is uncomfortable for me to say because I anticipate that maybe it's going to feel negative, maybe it's going to

feel abrasive, right? But my intention is if I say this thing, then we can solve it together and we can move on, right? Those so like that is the

framing behind this code

Kiera (15:16)

Yeah, uh-huh.

Dana (15:16)

word, right? And for them, they picked something that makes them laugh. So they just it's a flat tire conversation, right?

Kiera (15:21)

Yeah.

Dana (15:22)

And so they always say like, hey, flat tire, and then say the thing, right? And that's just their way

Kiera (15:27)

Mm.

Dana (15:28)

of really just making them comfortable with this whole philosophy of we're going to say the things that need to be said. We're going to do it kindly and professionally. But it was kind of like their little lean in tool that

Kiera (15:38)

I love it.

Dana (15:39)

they use. Now I said we can't ever use flat tire of a like, hey, I was supposed to do

This, but flat tire, I didn't, right? We can't use it to get out of accountability for things, but it really is just to set the tone of I'm gonna say a thing that I'm scared to say that's hard to say, but I hope if I say it, we can grow together, right?

Kiera (15:57)

I love that.

Dana (15:58)

And so I love that as a tool, and I find myself kind of using it in a few offices since then, and they can pick their own word, it doesn't have to be flat tire, but you're right, this is hard for some team members to really get on board with because I do think that.

When they genuinely like each other as humans, this can be uncomfortable at first. So even using a tool like that, hey, we're not gonna not have the conversations or not say

Kiera (16:22)

Uh-huh.

Dana (16:22)

the thing, but maybe I need a crutch to get there.

Kiera (16:25)

Yes.

Well, and Dana, I love that because I think I think most teams actually love each other and most teams want to work together. Most teams respect each other. And I think if we can even reframe that to me having the conversation with you, like let's go to the book Raving Fans. They said the worst thing that can happen to a business is for people to leave and not tell you. And you might feel like someone telling you and giving you feedback, like that's actually the best thing that can happen to a business because that means they believe in you that you're willing to change.

And so I think if we even reframe of the way I really love my team, the way I really support my coworkers, the way I really show them that I trust them is by having these types of conversations. Me not saying anything actually like is a disservice. None of us, like I ask every team, I'm like, how many of you enjoy like walking on eggshells around team members? Like we all know what that feels like. We all know when someone's like upset with us, but we don't know how to have that conversation. We're like, what did I do to this person? Versus someone where it's like,

Dana, like I feel like things are a little off. Like flat tire. Like, can we have a conversation about this so we can solve it together? That shows so much more camaraderie. That shows so much more professionalism. That shows so much more, like to me, that's a maturity of a team. There's like, I feel like it's like layers, right? Baby teams,

Dana (17:36)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Kiera (17:37)

toddler teams, middle school teams, high school teams, college teams. Then you get into professional services like teams. Like you just think about like,

Even

think about the type of communication all those different layers are going to have with each other. And maybe that's also a way for us to graduate into those different layers of communication with each other. But I will tell you, as someone, and I think that that's something I'm very proud of, is I am a very like people pleaser. I love people like me. I'm very much sit on that artificial harmony. And sometimes, like even with Britt, like my hair, I'll like push it up and I'm like, all right, Britt, this is a moment where I'm really stressed. Like I need to say something to you. And I'm like,

Every ounce of me wants to say it, but I don't want it to ever land wrong. So just know, like right now, like this is me like pep talking myself to go into this combo. And I appreciate that Britt will giggle because she knows like it's so hard for me, but I just need to say what needs to be said. And I think for teams, like this is a muscle and a skill that's really going to take you from where you are to where you ultimately want to go. Like this is that bridge. And you can either sit on one side of the river or you can dip your toe in, you can step on the bridge, you can start having the conversations.

And what's wild is your team culture will start to shift and evolve in ways you've never imagined and you'll never look back. Like it's not like you might have some knockout, drag outs, but you're like, you what, I'd rather know than like not know. And you start to get into this where it's like, cool, let's have a conversation. Like you said, tell us about the flat tire office. How long has it been? What's kind of been their experience, highs and lows, and where are they today?

Dana (19:07)

Yeah, yeah. So this it we did this more recently in an in-person. It was probably like three months ago. And

Kiera (19:14)

Mm-hmm.

Dana (19:15)

they've had, I think, teammate to teammate conversations. They've had leadership to team member conversations, and they've had team member two leadership conversations since then. And I can tell you, like they are more committed, they are tracking things, they are, you know, they've got a board where things are like red and green. We did it for just like a visual for them. There is more green.

On the board since then than I've ever seen, because they truly, truly are using morning huddles to like work through things and just communicating at a level that I'm so proud because I they really, really struggled with this. And I wasn't they were committed, right? But I had seen them fall off in commitment before because they did struggle with this. And so watching them really be able to

Take it on, use that. And two, the last call that I had with them, just feedback in like, hey, I had a flat tire conversation and I didn't even have to take say flat tire, right? Like I didn't

Kiera (20:15)

Yeah.

Dana (20:15)

even have to use that crutch. I'm getting so comfortable with having conversations that I didn't even have to use our funny word. And you know, they did laugh because it was like after the fact we were like, flat tire, right? but

Kiera (20:27)

Ha ha ha

Dana (20:28)

the fact that like they could just go in and say it in a meeting, right? Say it

Kiera (20:32)

Mm-hmm.

Dana (20:32)

in a not even in a one-on-one space, like this happened in a team.

meeting where they were talking about things, it honestly and truly has made such a difference in their ability to work together and honestly and truly commit and then hit their goals, right? And

Kiera (20:49)

Yeah, uh-huh.

Dana (20:50)

actually hit their action items. And it's been really fun to see how proud of themselves they are too.

Kiera (20:56)

That's incredible. And I hope I don't know if you guys heard. I heard. I was watching Dana's face and hearing you're like, they were committed. Like you even like the little like trying to like, they were committed. And to me, that's not committed. Versus on this latter half when you're like, they commit and they hit, there is like a stalwartness. There's a solid, there's a grounded of are we like committed? Like, like we're there, but we're not, versus like, we know we're gonna have the conversations, whatever we say we're going to actually achieve as a team. Do you know how much teams love to win and actually like

Be confident they're going to win, be confident that the goals we set are realistic, to challenge each other and to see a team like Dana, that was three months of a change in an evolution. And I think that's fun. And it now just becomes a standard, it becomes a baseline. You gave them the tools to get there. And I think having a consultant, see that, give your team the tools. I mean, Dana, kudos. I'm definitely gonna take that because I think having the like word of how do I go into this conversation and making it funny that they all agree to my husband, I have the word Arkansas, and that's like if I want him to tell me the truth.

And I feel like he's like kind of like, hmm, not I'm like Arkansas. And he's no, no, Arkansas. Like, this is really what I'm trying to say. And I'm like, okay, great. Like sometimes we all need to just have that where we can we can check in with each other. And I think kudos to you, Dana, for doing that. And to get a team to just rally and to hit great goals and to be committed. And what's wild is this team, like I guarantee you, they've got the base foundation, just like Patrick, Patrick Lanzioni says, it's the trust and vulnerability, the healthy debate, and you lock in and commit.

And if you will do the trust and vulnerability where you healthy debate, your team will actually commit and then they hold each other accountable. It's like, no, we committed to this. Like we're all in it to win it. And then you hit your results. And people want to do it the reverse order. They want to hit the results, but they don't want to talk about the trust. And like Dana said, like we can like, we can kind of hit results, but we're not like so grounded and solid that we know we're gonna do it. So Dana, huge kudos to you. I think mad kudos of you giving that space and giving them the space to trust. And I think for other offices, if you're struggling with that or your team's not quite there.

This is what we're really good at is peeling back those onion layers, helping to open up the conversations. Because yes, you come to us for wanting systems and you want case acceptance, you want morning huddle and you want to drive your production. But a lot of times the secret to that bridge is getting your team to actually communicate with each other, getting your team to trust each other, getting your team to be solely locked in and committed to what we actually say rather than like half-heartedly trying to do it because they want to please you. Let's get people who are actually like very committed and this is their practice that they stamp off on.

And they own. So reach out [email protected]. Dana, I'm so freaking proud of you. Any last thoughts you've got before we wrap today?

Dana (23:28)

No, I think just when you want this for your team, be willing to do it yourself. owners, dentists, right? And and just it is hard, right? It can be hard to say the things, but know that when we can say the things, the traction that we can have and the movement that we can have is unimaginable.

Kiera (23:47)

Dana, that is like a solid mic drop. You're right. Like it starts with leaders first. You've got to be willing to do it. You can't be backbiting. You can't be gossiping behind the scenes. You can't be walking out of a meeting saying, I'm not doing that. You set that example. Dana, love podcasting with you. I adore you. I'm so proud of you. For all of you listening, commit. Like, let's let's get our teams to be functional. Let's get them to be rocking. Let's get them to be totally committed. And this is the first step. So try it or reach [email protected]. As always, thanks for listening. And I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.

Re-releasing a Dental A-Team podcast fan favorite!

Britt is fresh off visiting a ton of practices, many of which are part of dental support organizations (DSOs), and she's sharing her insight. With Kiera, she talks about the foundational pieces to set up DSOs for success — everything from training the leadership team, setting up KPIs, providing profit and loss statement education, and allowing culture and patient experience to grow in each practice while keeping an overall brand.

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Transcript:

Kiera Dent (00:00)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera. And today we are bringing you something so special. I am so excited because this is one of our most popular episodes from the archives. Whether you're hearing this for the first time or catching it again, I am so excited because it's jam packed with a ton of takeaways that you can start using right now in your practice. We have released thousands, literally thousands of episodes. And I wanted to start bringing a few of these amazing episodes back for you. So I hope you enjoy. And as always, thanks for listening and I'll catch you next time.

on the Dental A Team podcast.

speaker-0 (00:31)

and I've got the one and only Brittany Stone back on the pod. Guys, she has been a freaking road warrior, traveling to seven offices in one day. Dang, Britt. Welcome back. How you doing? How you feeling? How are you today?

speaker-1 (00:45)

I'm good. You made me sound better than I was in one day. Seven in a week. Still a lot, but seven in a week.

speaker-0 (00:51)

Yeah, that's exactly what I meant. We could edit that or you guys can just know. in my mind, I think it felt like you were seven in a day. Like you were cruising

speaker-1 (00:58)

Yeah.

speaker-0 (01:00)

to practices. Seven in a week is so many offices. But guys, don't worry, Britt wasn't like leaving them high and dry hanging out. You were seeing it kind of walk us through. I know you went to quite a few DSOs that had multi practices, multi locations. Kind of what was that like and and how does that even look when you're going to multiple practices like that?

speaker-1 (01:19)

Yeah, it's fun. So that was it was a week of my like multi practice location. So one had three offices, one had four offices, the two groups that I work with last week. And so it's fun. It's fun to see one you get to know kind of like the visionaries who who started a thing, whether it's just an owner or multiple partners that are involved in it, get to see kind of their vision and it's it's fun to see

the different also types of practices that are underneath their umbrellas and how they run 'cause usually we've got some different sizes, obviously different locations. So so yeah, I got to go in, meet everybody, go see all the different practices, kind of see what's going on with them, what things we could help with on an individual practice level and then also as an organization. So it was a good time.

speaker-0 (02:07)

That's a lot. And I I do think it is fun when you go see multiple practices because this whole idea of DSO is that we want all of our practices to run exactly the same. And I know when I was a regional manager of ten practices, the bottom line is there is no such thing as running every practice the same. I think it's more like getting rid of that illusion that they're all going to be the same. And it's more what are the foundational pieces and the the silver lining strings that we want running amongst them all. Britt, I know you had one practice,

that kind of wanted to do their own thing within a group. Like, how do you how do you get like one, paint the vision of all the practices needing to be at least fundamentally pretty consistent and similar. And then also helping the doctors and the team members understand like, I get it, it might be annoying for you, but for the greater good of all the practices, it really does make everything easier when we run the same. Because I know a lot of practices just want to run as solo practices, but when you're in a group and multi-offices

that no longer serves the greater organization. Like what was kind of your findings with that? How do you how are you finding to get people on board? Is that something you were running into? Just kinda give us your thoughts around that.

speaker-1 (03:16)

Yeah, I think every DSO probably struggles or like group practice struggles with all right, how much do we have the same and like where can we kind of let them be their own and shine in their own way? And also from the business side of things for the DSO, right? What things are more financially beneficial for us to be able to do them the same and have on the same system? so that we run it across all offices and get the true benefit of the DSO.

And so that's where you s kind of start to to figure out, all right, there's gonna be a lot of systems that one, yes, anything that impacts other offices or the group overall, we've gotta make the best decision for the group on how we want that to run, whether it's but easy things like payroll is a pretty pretty common one that's gotta be obviously the same across all over offices. If we're using the same software, right, the way we run our schedule, who's allowed to be on our schedule.

All of those things kinda need guidelines that go across the board. So we all know a little bit of the rules of engagement on things like the schedule. So that's kinda I start to think of it as all right, what are the most important things that impact each other that we need to have the same that's also gonna allow us to be most financially beneficial for the DSO? And then what things don't necessarily impact the other offices where those offices can start to really like, all right, what are procedures you do? Great, go run with it, build it up and

Even if we can get some referrals from other offices for that thing, fantastic and they kinda kinda do their own a little bit.

speaker-0 (04:48)

For sure.

And but I was thinking like it actually might be fun on this podcast for us to dive into when you're in a DSO, because Br I know your private practice sold to a DSO. I work with lots of DSOs. You work with lots of DSOs. And I think DSOs are a pretty hot buzzword right now in dentistry. of kind of what are some of those things that you should have standardized. I love that you brought up the payroll for sure. for me, some of the things I know I'm looking at is I really am just looking at

Key metrics amongst all practices. And I know, Britt, with a lot of the DSOs that you and I are consulting together, that is one of the biggest things of making sure all of them are hitting the metrics. And then whatever they want to do outside of those metrics, it's pretty much free reign from there. So, like we're talking labs, supplies, overhead, production per hour per provider, hygiene production.

those are like my main things. Case acceptance is another one I really like to watch. Number of new patients per practice is another key indicator that I really love watching. but those are kind of the main things. And then I really feel like in DSOs and multi practices, some of the biggest things that get lost are culture and patient experience. And those are to be different shades for every practice. And I really I like practices to think in like, no, you want the patient to feel the exact same way whether they come to this location.

Or whether they're going to another location. It is that way. And having practices and offices think like I've got one right now and they just acquired another practice. And they're really doing a divide between the offices. And they're they're labeling each office based on the city. I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. let's call them all the practice name. So we are all, let's just say, healthy smiles. It's not healthy smiles of probos and healthy smiles of orum. It is

Healthy smiles, and then we have our Aurum location and our provo location. Those are just a quick way because I think when you can have it as an umbrella of all the practices operate as this way, and then here's these different locations, but helping everyone realize there is the healthy smiles way. And we operate on healthy smiles first. Secondary is going to be our location. Are those some of the things you've seen? Like those are one, the key indicators I like to look at. And then secondly, making sure that people realize like the culture and the patient experience.

really need to be dialed in in my opinion, to really help these DSOs grow and flourish.

speaker-1 (07:09)

Mm-hmm. I'm with you on KPIs, right? Teaching office managers how to be able to kind of take charge of those, know what's going on in their practice, and that we're all watching those important numbers to be healthy for sure. That's an across the board thing. and then I'm with you on capitalize off the brand. from a lot of the DSOs we work with, where it's a few different locations, usually I feel like a lot of them are gonna be like five or less, where you can truly

make sure that we are maintaining our standard, maintaining our brand, and then capitalize off of that brand for all practices to where there might be a patient who's looking to go to the office, but maybe it's a little bit farther. great, they've got a location that's closer than to me. Awesome. Let me just go ahead and go to that closer location. And agreed. You've got to keep then the culture and the patient experience up to be number one. And what does that look like? What does it stand for? And there are

I will say different pieces that go into that when it comes to maintaining that culture in our practices and that experience. And I think those would be some non-negotiables like you start to build in if it's we're on time, right, with our appointments as much as possible. So that's something we really drive with our teams. We're always friendly with our patients, we're always welcoming. How do we present on the phone?

you can start to dig into some of those things that you really want to represent as a practice and make sure it's ingrained in our team members and how we present.

speaker-0 (08:41)

Yeah. And I think like you said it's that culture in that brand. And honestly, I think people forget that that's actually why you became successful. Like that culture, that brand you started developing, that's how you're able to multiple scale across other practices. And I feel like offices that that see all the practices as one company and then the the different locations are just extensions of that company are the ones that really flourish. In that same thing, I feel like Britt, something you and I have really been

trying to hone in on with offices is to make sure that they have a key leadership team. So people that are really in sync to make decisions. and that's for your operations, for your labs, for your supplies, and and then making sure that things can actually execute forward. Because I feel like when we get a lot of partners involved, what happens is everybody has a strong opinion, but those opinions actually are great unless they stop all the the forward progress

And I think they really just have to be key decision players that everybody elects. It's almost like a board. I feel like all the practices are almost like a neighborhood and you need an HOA, like somebody who can actually just make the decisions and execute in the best interest. And maybe you've got a few of them. So you've got, say, your regional manager who's overseeing all of the practices, the overhead, the operations really. You've possibly got a clinical manager on there who's really looking at the hygiene, the dental assistants.

Then you've got probably a dentist on the board who's making decisions as far as what are the clinical diagnoses, what are the supplies that all dentists need across the board. And then you're probably gonna have somebody who's your finance person. So someone really looking at the financials of the practice. And if you can have one of those key players, I feel like just get that honed in. Then you can have all the practices have their own like little leadership teams and whatnot.

But really you've got those four players who can make very strong decisions. And maybe the dentist is the same person as the clinical lead. Maybe that we don't need an extra person there, maybe not. But I think if you can really get that dialed in, you're going to be able to make a lot stronger decisions and be able to move things forward more. Britt, what are you seeing? Like you were literally just in DSOs. Are you finding that that type of structure helps move things along? Or are you finding like, no, we need to have key leaders in other areas?

Wha what's kind of your take on how to make sure decisions can be made? Because I truly feel like once you get the the KPIs dialed in and everyone's reporting in, once you get your office managers looking at their practices, making sure they're profitable and reporting in, then you got your culture and your brand, it's really about getting decisions made quickly and moving things along rather than getting stagnated with so many opinions.

speaker-1 (11:20)

Mm-hmm. And I am big on agreed. You've got to figure out who are your key players, what leadership team do you need in place. I am in big support of having someone who's a strong regional manager in place to help make a lot of those kind of smaller decisions for offices, the offices need support on and empowering office managers to make decision decisions within the balance that you give them.

I think the more you expose your office managers and teach them some of the business side to where they really know what those KPIs are, they really know what they're watching, they know how to influence it, you'll become more confident in their decision making as they see things at a kind of higher level, a bigger picture. but when they can have that information, know how to see it from a little bit higher level, start giving them

the the opportunity to make decisions within their practice. So one, they can kind of see the fun and feel empowered to where they really can run that team and own that office. and they don't feel like they're just kind of sitting waiting for people to tell them what to do. and then that they've got a really strong regional behind them who also has the ability to make decisions within the parameters that if it's partners or owner gives them.

to keep moving things forward and same thing. It's a super empowering thing to where they can get more creative and think of o opportunities for the practices than just feeling like they need to wait because they can't make a decision or do anything because someone's not gonna approve of it.

speaker-0 (12:47)

And I really love that you talked about having that regional manager understand the business. I feel like in DSOs, you have to have somebody who understands the business and can think like a business owner. That way they can make decisions. Britt, what were some of the things that as you were basically their regional manager, you were in that DSO role? What were some of the things you felt helped? Because I I think I think sometimes business owners forget everything they've learned. So having somebody come through, it's almost like we've forgotten what business 101 is.

of what things we really need to teach them. What have you found that was maybe helpful for you, for your owners to teach you so you could be more successful in your role within that DSL?

speaker-1 (13:28)

Sure. I think one of the first things is helping the office managers and regional managers understand what a PL is. Like, and it doesn't even have to be like the terms of this is a PL, but understanding, I like to relate it to it's just like at home if we have a budget, right? And what money do we have coming in, what things are we spending money in, and at the end, you know, what do we have left over? Just helping them understand not overall.

kind of equation of how the business runs and what are the different pieces within that that they can impact, which is ultimately how many patients we have, how much we treatment plan is truly our ultimate potential as an office. And then what we close, what we schedule, what we collect on, and then controlling our expenses, so then we can have a greater kind of profit left over at the end. So helping them understand that big picture and then helping them to understand within each of those little sections, which are

Then KPIs, what are the more like tangible things that we can track that impact that bigger equation to the business? And agreed, I think we don't realize how much we've learned along the way or people have taught us along the way, even myself kind of running through sometimes these KPIs when you haven't seen them before and you don't understand one, maybe where they come from, or two, why would we even track it? And three.

What could I even do to change that number? Like those are things you have to learn over time and someone's gotta gotta actually take the time to invest in teaching you.

speaker-0 (14:59)

Which I I don't think people realize that PNL. When I first looked at a PL, I'm like, this looks like a straight up foreign language. Like I don't even know what ninety percent of this means. And so just imagine, if you will, if you've been running a business, you've been looking at PNLs, pretend you were just plunked into like for me, I do not speak Chinese. So being stuck in a class speaking Chinese and them handing me a report and saying, Kiera, you need to be able to read this and figure it out and tell me what I should do with my business.

I would literally look at that and want to cry. And then I'd probably take a picture with my phone and I'd start Googling and I'd hope and pray I could find some type of Google Translate to figure it out. That like I feel is a good way for you to really understand like what it feels like to be those team members when they first start looking at PL. So I think one of the best ways is just practice. and what I've done is like Britt said, is really just

Sit with your regional. Also, you can do this with your office managers, especially in DSOs, because the more your office managers understand the PL and what it should look like, that can help. So it's really just dial into that. tell them what a healthy payroll like payroll should be sitting at less than 30% of our total collections every month. Our lab should be at less than 9% of our total collections every month, supplies 5%, and just go down the list with them so they can see is this good or is this bad?

I love HDA accounting. I think they do a great job. Profy is another one. I'd Bailey is another one. those are just some some accounting companies. I like when they send the P and L because it's red and green. Like HDA is like you get a thumbs up or you get a thumbs down. Makes it a little bit easier. But then asking your regional or your managers to say, Hey, when you look at this P N L, what do you see that's going really, really well? And what do you see are some of the areas that might be trouble areas and why? Because I feel like when you can start to almost

quiz them and role play with them and have more of a collaboration with them, they start reading that PL and figuring it out rather than you always telling them. But like Britt said, you've got to take the time and invest with them. That way they can look at a PNL. I know Shelbi's been doing RPLs. She sends it to me every week and finally I said, Shelbs, what do you see on this? And that was the first time she'd really looked at it. Sha I just had an assignment for her to send them to me every week, which she does great. But then I started asking her to look at them and then we start diving into it and looking at different numbers.

And it's crazy how when you just spend a little bit of time, people can really start to find things that you as the owner might even be missing. And then they can take the accountability and the ownership of it. But just realize like it is a completely foreign language for these poor people. Let's not forget to train them and educate them so they can be set up for success.

speaker-1 (17:38)

Mm-hmm, for sure. And I think also when it comes down to it, when you start looking at some of these numbers and you haven't looked at it before, so even office managers, when they look at it and they haven't seen it or regionals, they're gonna start to understand and like it it's fun in in a way to see their eyes kind of open to like, I understand why like I really want to be able to hire an additional team member, but here's where we are, so it makes sense now why now's not the time to hire.

And we need to work on some other things so we can afford to hire another team.

speaker-0 (18:10)

Exactly. And then you're no longer as the business owner, the bad guy or the good guy. When your regional says, Hey, I want to hire, you say, Prime, can we afford this? What does the PNL say? And they then are the ones who are answering the question rather than you being like giving the green light or giving the thumbs down. And then they are more again a partner with you. Britt, as a regional, and I'll give my insights of how it felt for me, how does that make you feel when you can as a regional start making those business decisions and truly be like a trusted

side partner where you're like really, really informed in the business. How does that make you as the regional manager, you as the manager, the practice like, what do you feel like when you feel that competent reading PNLs and understanding the business?

speaker-1 (18:54)

I loved it. I loved it for one of the biggest reasons is because I'm in a practice, especially as OM, like I'm in a practice every day and can see what I have and what I need and what's actually going on like as close to the ground as possible. So when it's something like this, we're like driving numbers in a certain direction, I'm like, all right, I can see multiple things kind of in the puzzle that I can start to manipulate or impact.

to be able to drive those numbers, drive the results, or if it's like, hey, we want to get new technology, what do we need to do to get there? Great, we want another ITero. Here's a plan of how we can afford to get that new piece of equipment.

speaker-0 (19:33)

Exactly. And it it feels so good. Like for me, it just felt like the I like to win. And I felt like it was finally my my roadmap to being able to be successful and and hit the goals that my doctor had, but literally have like the optics, if you will, for success. And so I think it's super paramount of teaching your team members and empowering them. Like even as team members, I know Tiff, Britt, Shelbi, like our whole team. They'll look like, Kiera, can we actually afford that?

That is like one of the happiest days of all of my business time because I'm like, they're actually looking to see, can we afford that? Can we do this? Does this make sense for the business? And it's not me just carrying the weight anymore. So I feel like it's really important for for offices, especially DSOs. Like I would say if we were to recap this and Britt, it's fun that you just came in off of DSO. So I thought, like, hey, let's dive into DSO success of one.

Like set up your KPIs. Make sure you've got all practices reporting in and they understand and like truly spend the time to teach your office managers at each practice what those KPIs need to look like, how to get the information, and then have a set cadence where they're really reporting in with you. The next thing is like build up that leadership team within the DSO of the strong people that can actually make the decisions and they have the autonomy and the authority to execute. And then third, train the team members to really look at these PL so they understand.

Before all that we did talk about like having the standardization of culture, the name, making sure those things run the same. And I feel like within DSOs, you are way, way, way more needed to be structured and to over-communicate than you are in solo or even secondary practices. Like the type of communication, the amount of communication, the amount of I would say like rules with massive air quotes. Like people just need to know the guidelines of what we can or can't do, and they've gotta be black and white. That's kind of like my recap of everything we talked about, Britt.

Of like DSO success, but is there anything I may have missed or things you want to just highlight on your own that you feel really really makes or breaks a DSO from your perspective?

speaker-1 (21:35)

I think those are all key pieces that ultimately build to like there's no one or three people at the top that depending on how big you get, right? They can be responsible for making all decisions. So a lot of it is making sure you've got that flywheel of culture going to where you don't have to put so much effort into controlling it. And then you've got key people and support so that the people kinda at the top or the the OGs, the originals who kind of started it.

that you build in support for yourself and you're not having having to make all of those decisions for everybody.

speaker-0 (22:10)

Think that that's actually one of the like key pieces that I hadn't even realized is this allows more freedom of those visionaries to go and make decisions, but have a team that can also make decisions and think like that visionary more so. So, like, and to be honest, a lot of people get excited about going and buying the practices that they forget. You need to have that foundation, those guidelines, those ways for people to make decisions without the OGs being there to answer everything. And if you don't have that in play.

Get that in play, hire a coach. That's what we do. We literally help offices get these things set up, things they might not have thought about. Be that mediator who can really remind, show, guide people to get things done. But make sure you have that in play as you're building, but or I would truly suggest before you do it. However, I know all visionaries just go and they buy the practice and then figure it out. So like it's cool. We we know you, we see you, but really getting that ability for people to be it have autonomy.

And so that way the owners don't have to always be making every decision. I think one just empowers everyone and two, it's an easier flowing process for sure.

speaker-1 (23:16)

Mm. Absolutely.

speaker-0 (23:17)

So guys, there you go. There's Road Warrior Britt coming back in off of a DSO week. We love our DSO practices. But really, I just thought it'd be fun for us to highlight today of what are some of the the key sticks success for DSOs. And Britt, I know you came from a very successful DSO before joining Dental A Team. And so I feel like you just have such a knack for it. And offices who work with you, shoot. You got some of the most raving reviews from the offices you were with. Like I got personal text messages from those doctors thanking you for being there and how much

you're able to clarify. So Britt, kudos to you. it's fun to have you share on DSO secrets and success.

speaker-1 (23:53)

Thanks. I do love my D SOs.

speaker-0 (23:56)

They're just fun. Britt and I giggle were like, we loved our our new practices, but man, those DSOs, they're like puzzles for us to have to try and figure out, put together. Britt and I will collaborate on these all the time, and it's so fun for those DSOs.

Kiera Dent (24:12)

I hope you all loved today's episode as much as I did. It is crazy to think that this many episodes have been released since we started the Dental A Team Podcast. And I started looking to say, my goodness, our listeners need to be reminded of some of the things they may have learned a year ago or two years ago or five years ago, because so many things in our practices weren't relevant back then when we heard them, but they are relevant today. And I would be doing you a huge disservice if I didn't re-release some of these episodes for you to remember, to refine.

to optimize and really truly if you ever need a topic or you're like, my gosh, I wonder if the Dental A Team has anything like this, go onto our website, TheDentalATeam.com, click on our podcast tab and you can literally search any topic. So whether it's overhead or hiring or firing or team morale or engagement or case acceptance or hygiene or associate onboarding or whatever it is, we have so many episodes for you. And so I am going to intentionally be

re-releasing some of the top best episodes for you, pulling back some of the ones that I needed to remember, some of the things that I feel for you to really, really relearn right now and to re-remember, or if it's the first time, welcome. I'm so happy you're listening to it, but I hope you truly enjoyed today's episode. I hope that you share this with somebody. I hope that you go and implement today because we only have one day. We only get today. And so making today the best that it possibly can be. If we can help you in any way, shape or form, reach out [email protected].

And as always, thanks for listening and we'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.

Tiff and Nikki share how a hands-on operator can become a strategic owner, and at the same time set the team up for success. By sharing responsibilities and establishing clear systems, your practice's culture, business, and team can blossom in unexpected ways.

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Transcript:

Tiffanie (00:01)

Hello Dental A Team listeners. We are back with you today and to share some really fun things. I have Nikki here with me today. I love nothing more than podcasting with the other consultants on our team. And Nikki is a favorite, a fan favorite, and a Dental A Team

Nikki Mack (00:17)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (00:18)

favorite. Nikki, thank you so much for being here this morning for us and whatever time of day the listeners are listening. How are you today, Nikki?

Nikki Mack (00:26)

I am good. I'm excited to be back too. I this has become one of my favorite parts of Dental A Team. and especially when I hear from doctors and listeners, my gosh, I heard you yesterday on the podcast. And it's fun to know that like while I get to have a good time with you, this really matters and it helps our listeners. So happy to be

Tiffanie (00:44)

I love that.

Nikki Mack (00:45)

here.

Tiffanie (00:46)

I love that you walked into an office not that long ago and they said, my gosh, I just listened to you. I think it was that morning, right? You had a doctor that had said that.

Nikki Mack (00:52)

Yeah. On

their way into the practice. So that was a how do you follow up yourself? Like that was a that's a tough act. Yeah.

Tiffanie (00:59)

Yeah. Yeah. I gotta do a whole meeting. This is wild. I

love it. Yes, we have definitely built a cult following here and we love it. I know you actually you are working with an office who is one of our biggest podcast fans of all time. and it's a husband and wife duo and I won't say who they are, they know who they are because they're listening and she is just

one of the most amazing people I've ever met in my life. She's so sweet. And I am hoping that they're coming to the Masterminds as well. I'm pretty sure that they are. but I will be excited to see them. I know that's a podcast family for you as well. And it just makes it super fun and it kind of makes us feel like, okay, cool, they know me. And so it gives us an outlet and an opportunity for you listeners and you practices who work with us, practices who will work with us in the future. It gives us an opportunity to showcase who we are.

So that you and your teams kind of have an idea before we get to you, whether we're in office or whether we're virtual, just like this. And I think Nikki, you've experienced it now too. You've experienced both worlds, like going into practices obviously who've never heard us, and then going into practices who have heard us. And I think both of us can agree that those practices where the doctors love the podcast, have maybe found us through the podcast or or listen to it and then share it with their teams, those teams are like

almost a step ahead already. Their brains are ready, they're in that growth mindset and they really understand the angles that we come at consulting from. And I think that it really just helps us give that give that like extra footing to make progress. Do you feel the same, Nikki?

Nikki Mack (02:44)

Absolutely, I agree. I think we've talked about this, I feel like in a previous podcast. I think in dentistry, fit matters so much, you know, that our team is the right fit, our patients are the right fit. And I think when it comes to consulting, you need to make sure that they're the right fit for your goals and your vision. and our podcast is just a nice way for listeners to, like you said, really get an understanding of who we are and and how we operate, you know, kind of what we're about. And so you really enter the relationship.

a step ahead 'cause we're like, okay, I know this, especially when they've seen us specifically, they already know what they're in for with me. So it's a pretty good start to the ride together for sure.

Tiffanie (03:25)

I agree. I think one of my favorite pieces of you in general, but of our c whole consulting team, is that how we show up is like who we are. We don't really show up any differently. I might become a little peppier on stage. People will see

Nikki Mack (03:38)

Mm-hmm.

Tiffanie (03:39)

that than my normal everyday life. I might talk a little bit more. Erin probably disagrees, my fiance, but I think I talk a little bit more at work than I do at home. but no matter what, like our personality shines through and we are who we are. So then

practices, doctors, people, teams, they do know what to expect. And today I wanted to chat through some aspects and some different ways that we can pull doctor, we'll call it out of the weeds, right? Practice owners out of the weeds. And I think this is actually a huge segue into that because I think sharing your goals, dreams, aspirations, and sharing the things that are helping you feel connected to dentistry or your business or

your systems, things that you've learned that you want to implement, or just really you're like, gosh, I really love these ladies' personalities and I want like some semblance of that kind of culture in my practice. So taking things like this and sharing it with your team is really a great way, Nikki, I think to step that first foot into pulling themselves out of the weeds of being like the one, right?

The one that has to make all the changes, the one that has to make all the decisions, and really just like totally in the weeds of the business, the dentistry, the HR, the people, the team, that like all of the pieces and they're trying to hold all this together, but sharing that I know in our company is specifically with the consultants, we share constantly, we share different things we've heard or listened to or

different podcasters or books, things like that, because it helps to build our culture and helps to keep us closer together. So with that, Nikki, what do you feel like what would that do for a practice or how do you think that it helps a doctor to pull themselves out of the weeds when they do share different things like that? Whether it's this podcast, a different one, could be completely non-dental. How do you think that helps them to set their team up for success to be able to pull out?

Nikki Mack (05:38)

Yeah, I think sometimes we get so caught up in that leadership position with our team that we think it's just office focused, you know, making them a better dental assistant or a better office manager or better treatment coordinator. But I think when you look back on some of your best jobs and experiences and cultures, it's where they also work to help develop you as a person. And that's where I think some of these come into play. a lot of these books and podcasts and

Things that even we talk about sometimes I've never heard of them. You know, I'm like, my gosh. And then it's on my regular rotation, a favorite. So the same can be said for your team members. They may not even realize some of these resources are there. And when you share that with them, it creates a different type of connection. like you said, it helps them understand. Like, if I'm like, my gosh, this is my favorite podcast, here's what I took from it today, it helps you relate to them.

And then sometimes it just gives those pieces and it's like, wow, okay, we really are working for this goal, right? We really are trying to get to the next level. And I love things I get at work that I can apply to my personal life because there's a lot. It happens a lot.

Tiffanie (06:45)

Mm-hmm.

I agree. And I think too, as you're speaking, I'm thinking of how like different people hear things differently, right? So one podcast, I might hear a certain message and it might be there. You might hear that message too, but you might hear it in a different angle or from a different perspective or apply it differently. And per position too, a dentist and a business owner might hear a marketing podcast and think overarching marketing and like how do we do all of these pieces?

And then you pass it along to a treatment coordinator or an office manager and they're like, cool, I could apply it in this way with my verbiage to my patients. And so like wherever we're sitting, we get to spin it for that perspective and how it's gonna suit us the best. And I think that that makes a massive difference. And pulling ourselves out of the weeds, well, and right there, right? Sending it to an office manager or treatment coordinator, it's like, who is your team? Right? Who are the people that you count on?

at your practice, at your business, who are the people boots on the ground who are there supporting you. And how can you allow them to support you in your journey and be that show up as that leader? You said Nikki, like the leaders in the practice. And sometimes I think doctors silo themselves and think they have to be the one or they have to do it all. But farming some of that responsibility out to the leaders within the practice or the count it on

team members, I think Nikki, you've got a couple teams that are like a handful of people, right? We've got like seven, eight team members.

Nikki Mack (08:16)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (08:16)

You might not have a leadership team, right? Because like you got seven people, what are you going to do? Pull full four departments up and now they're managing each person's managing one person. So you might not have that full leadership team, but how are these people countable, right? How are you counting on them? And how can you share that culture and that experience and ideas with them?

Nikki Mack (08:40)

Yeah. Well, and I think a key thing that we forget a lot, especially as leaders in a practice, sometimes our systems systems are

Tiffanie (08:49)

Mm.

Nikki Mack (08:50)

created or adapted because of an outlying like thing going on in the practice. We're short staffed, someone's out on leave, right? These things that are going on. But a lot of times we get ourselves in the habit of never shifting back or never reevaluating. So when we get

really stuck in those weeds, I think what happens is that allows us to have these not bad systems, but just they're not efficient, right? They're the things that really bog us down or make us feel really exhausted at the end of the day, but we don't have the opportunity to step back and say, could this be done differently? What should I do? Then when we take that moment, get ourselves out of those weeds, and it's like, my gosh, I not only do I not have to own this, it's better if I don't. There's someone on my team

that's better qualified for it, that should handle that and run in a sense that interference. And it's relearning ourselves how to redirect those people or those issues or those tasks. And then also that's when we have to kind of retrain our team. That's where the leadership comes out, that we are able to say, hey, I can see this clearly and I'm confident that this is a better direction. Here's how we execute it, right? And hold them accountable to it. Don't just take it back on because you're used to it.

but sometimes it takes something, a podcast or a book or a conversation to have that aha moment and realize, this is really like kind of slogging my day down. I shouldn't own this. This could be done better. So having that opportunity to see it through different eyes, it can change so much.

Tiffanie (10:28)

I agree. I agree. And I do have practices as they were say saying all this, I'm thinking, how many times have we been asked how do I need to pay them for this to listen to this thing or learn this thing? And we've got our online courses that a lot of practices utilize and we get asked that a lot. Like that's totally up to you guys. We don't have a say in that. but they you know, or practices that say they send it and they don't listen to it, right? And so they're just like beaten down and they start to feel

upset by it or hammered down and like why do I even bother? Do I have the right people? And I think Nikki within that is more of an expectation. And what that leads me to is what is the expectation of each position? And then what's the expectation of that person within that position? So do we have job descriptions? I know we talk about these a lot. We talk about them

Nikki Mack (11:19)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (11:20)

a lot because they really, really matter. Clarity is everything. Clarity is everything in life. In a world of chaos and a sea of crazy

If we can bring clarity to something, why wouldn't we? Right? It seems wild to say, meh, I just don't feel like it when we could bring some clarity. So if there's clarity to these positions, these these team members know this position means this thing. This is what I do, this is how I show up, these are the tasks that I do. But really a job description is how do I present myself within this seat? How does this seat show up for this practice and what are the goals within that?

So then layering in those expectations too of that personal development. Like, is it built into your culture? And did you do it without seeing why you're doing it? Right? Did you send the podcast like, hey, take a listen to this? You might enjoy it. And they're like, okay, cool. Maybe one day, right? It's on the back burner. This thing is more important. Or did you say, hey, I love growing and learning? And I truly want that to be an aspirational part of our culture.

in our community here at this practice. So from time to time, I might send you little tidbits. I'm gonna tell you why, like what my favorite takeaway was, why I think it's relevant to you, to your position, to your life, if you'll take a listen or read it, right? You can sign up for newsletters, send them a newsletter, send them the Dental A Team newsletter, like whatever that might be, but did you have a description of how they're supposed to show up so that when they see this thing come through, they're like, cool.

That could help me with my team member one on ones. Like I have to do my doc's asking me to do one on ones and I don't understand them yet. This podcast looks like it might help me with that. But not setting those expectations and just flippantly being like, Well, I've sent them the things. I've asked them to do book club with me and nobody wants to. Yeah, well, I'm not a dental nerd either. Like

Nikki Mack (13:17)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (13:18)

I love dentistry because of where it's gotten me in life. I think it's an amazing

amazing industry. and I I do love dentistry, but I'm not on my off hours listening to a ton of dental podcasts. I'm just not. There's a couple that are floating in there because I need the the continuing education I need to be relevant as well. But I love emotional intelligence. I love, you know, I I love listening to Andrew Huberman, right? And there's so many different things that even in those other podcasts are so applicable.

to business, to relationships, to dentistry, making sure that we figure out what is our style, what is our culture and what are the expectations and then setting those with people, I think make a massive difference, Nikki.

Nikki Mack (14:02)

I agree. And I think this is where it comes down to. We talk a lot about I think strong leadership comes to knowing your team, right? And understanding

Tiffanie (14:09)

Mm-hmm.

Nikki Mack (14:09)

who you have with you and kind of what those desires or those goals are. I know in one practice that I managed, that was a part of our annual reviews. Like, what's a professional goal for you? And then like what's a personal goal? Because if there was anything we could do to kind of support that, and it also benefited the practice or their you know growth as a team member.

Absolutely, why wouldn't we? And then you kind of know how to approach it. So if you know that there's a tip who's less dental nerd, right, then some of that stuff, that's not who you send that podcast to. On the flip side, full disclosure, such a nerd. I did not do back office. All my teens have heard my spiel. I'll save it. It's our little internal secret. But man, do I love some of the nerdy stuff.

Brit and Dana and I actually got to attend a local event here in Arizona a few months ago and do some CE. And when we were comparing what courses we had signed up for, it was very much an aha moment for Brit to realize exactly the level of my nerdiness because I was like, Yeah, I can't wait to go listen to this. Like I just yeah, I I will pull a couple pearls and it will be amazing. and it actually was, and absolutely it was a little dry. Some people left, you know, this is what happens.

but that filled my bucket because it's it's your what motivates you, what drives you is what drives you, right? And then knowing that being able to tune into it is so important and it can sound overwhelming. I know someone is driving in their car right now thinking about, my gosh, now I have to personalize my podcast recommendations per team member. But I promise you it becomes so easy because when you lead with that type of style and you create that culture, this is not where I need you to calendar a task.

To look for podcasts for every team member. It's just gonna come organically and you're able to share those observations, share those pearls of wisdom. And that's how you get out of the weeds, right? We grow our team, we grow their abilities, and we are so aligned that that's what helps that clarity and that confidence because we're like one team, one dream, right? And we all know where that vision is. And this just helps to support it and and boost them up for sure.

Tiffanie (16:21)

Yeah, I love that. And so then now we're working on that culture piece. We've got job descriptions clear, right? we've got our our culture piece really starting to fit. And I think that's where a lot of that trust comes into play. So then dentists and owners, they can say, Okay, I trust that this is going to happen. I trust that this team member does have my back. I have full support within them and I can give them this thing. So then we start trial and erroring it. And it's not to say

they didn't listen to the podcast. I can't, I can't give them something. I can't delegate. Like, no,

Nikki Mack (16:55)

Right.

Tiffanie (16:56)

just be realistic, right? What can you delegate over to them and like dip your toe in that water? Clear expectations on everything. So clear job descriptions, clarity around what does your culture need to look like, clear clarity around your goals, and then start delegating things off that you don't have to do. We like to say any tasks that don't require your brain.

Anything that somebody could do at 80% their level that could look very similar to what you want it to be, it might not be a hundred percent. Their hundred percent might be your eighty percent. but is that okay for this task? Start delegating those things off because that's how you get out of the weeds. Your clarity, your culture, and your delegation are how you get out of those weeds and then having that feedback system. And I think Nikki, within that, like you mentioned goals. I love a good three, five, ten year goal.

not easy to sit down and be like, what do I want in three years? What I want in 10 years. Like do some prompts, ask us, [email protected]. Like we're more than happy to help you dig into what those need to look like to work backwards. But when you have that vision, you have that goal, you know where you're going. Same with your culture. You know what you want your culture to look like. Now it's something that we can create. It's something that we can do together to reach those goals and get you pulled out of the weeds.

You talked, Nikki, about knowing the team members. And I think something that we've done really well with the Dental A team is as a virtual company, we've done a lot of like one-on-one time but group time at the same time. We have a lot of meetings. I I think there are companies that have more than us, but we do have a lot of meetings. But we do know each other. We get to know each other on a personal level. So like I was listening to a book the other day and I thought, my gosh, Christy.

Absolutely nothing to do with dentistry, not business, just like the idea, the premise of it was what you believe to be true will be true, right? Hands down, I believe that. And I thought, my gosh, Christy's gonna love this. So I send it to her, and within 30 seconds, she's like, I had an Audible credit, it's downloading right now. Thank you so much. Like, but I knew

Nikki Mack (19:06)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (19:08)

that was Christy, right? And I know.

Sometimes I'll pop something into the consultant chat that I'm like, hey ladies, this is actually really cool for business or for marketing. Or I'll be like, Nikki, this made me think of you. Or it's my like TikTok Instagram real friend that I like sending all those things, right?

Nikki Mack (19:23)

Ha ha ha.

Tiffanie (19:24)

But spending that one-on-one time together and really knowing each other, and it's not long. Like we get two 30 minute slots a month that's one on one with each other.

That's all that it takes and paying attention to one another on meetings and during different tasks, during different things, just paying attention to those pieces and who a person is really gives you key insights to what that could look like when you're sending something along like that. And Nikki, how do you see that? Like how can a dentist step back enough to see the people to be able to to see how can they create that culture to again get out of the weeds?

Nikki Mack (20:04)

And I think some of it comes to the time that we dedicate to that culture, right? You

Tiffanie (20:09)

Right.

Nikki Mack (20:09)

know, do we have a morning huddle? do we check in with our team members? Do we have our one-on-ones? And if the doctor's not having it, does the OM check in with the doctor, right? On those one on ones? What's that kind of communication piece? How do we close that circle? Because it is those like random moments, those passing by. docs usually know so much about their DA because the things that'll

Tiffanie (20:32)

Mm.

Nikki Mack (20:32)

come up, right?

in a chair working with a patient and just utilizing those and kind of capitalizing on it because that's where it's so funny when we talk about like getting out of the weeds but weeds are different for everyone too right like based on your skill set and kind of your interest. So as you as a practice owner or a leader are looking at your team or maybe looking at your tasks that you could possibly delegate. And like maybe you're sitting there right now like

This eats up a lot of my time. And you're right, someone else could do this at 80%. Like I need to

Tiffanie (21:04)

Mm-hmm.

Nikki Mack (21:05)

let it go. Let's be smart about who we let it go to and using what we know. If I have someone who is like camera shy, hates being in the reels, hates being in the videos, you know, it's like that's not their jam, but they come up with them. They see the good ones, they see that content and they're handy with like the cameras, with the apps, with the social media.

Maybe that's my social media person because they get to film the reels, right? Takes

Tiffanie (21:32)

Mm.

Nikki Mack (21:32)

all the pressure off of them and they can just excel, plan for when we're gonna film them. And then I as an owner, I don't have to think about it, right? Because I've got things I could do differently. Same when it comes to some of our patient relationships or you know our strategic efforts. Who do I have that that they would own? It wouldn't be weeds for them. And then I can take it off of the plate. Who is? So it's super important to understand who you have.

And people show you who they are every day, the way we work together, the way we chat when we make our coffee before Huddle, you know, all of those kind

Tiffanie (22:05)

Yeah.

Nikki Mack (22:06)

of little opportunities. we just have to listen and kind of act on it. And also, I say this to doctors all the time ask. Just ask. Sometimes I'm

Tiffanie (22:16)

Hm. I agree.

Nikki Mack (22:18)

guilty of it myself in the past. I would be like, gosh, I don't know if Yara would actually be into this. Like, I think so.

And you you spend all this time like going back and forth on your mind because you feel like you should just know. But guess what? Like just go ask. Never has an employee been like, I can't believe the doctor asked how I feel about this. Why didn't they just know? Are you kidding? The ask is such a trust builder. So if we're not sure, ask. Ask a question. It's okay. Because clear is kind, right? And making sure that we know where we're coming from. That's what gives us the confidence as the leader to pass this on, to have clear expectations.

and

then have the appropriate follow-up because that's how it all ties together. For myself, one of the things I love about Dental A Team so much is that we don't just work with the doctor or the practice owner. We really do be have that opportunity to spend time with the team as well and making sure that everyone understands that full circle piece. My favorite thing is to remind them that like I am here to help keep you accountable. So we're not going to forget about this in two weeks. This is something we're going to give a real try.

real follow up and then have real conversations about how it's helping us. And that's a real benefit to finding the things that stick and being able to execute not just for the first couple of weeks. So

Tiffanie (23:35)

I completely agree. I think that was a beautiful wrap. And if I had to pull action items out of what you just said, I hope doctors and listeners, you heard them as well. Job descriptions, clear as kind. Morning huddles, make sure that you're communicating every day on some level. And monthly one-on-ones. And I heard the other day they were called feedback sessions, and I really loved that. I was listening to a podcast,

Nikki Mack (23:59)

I love that.

Tiffanie (24:00)

non dental.

and she said that she called them feedback sessions and it was a feedback loop. It was how are you doing? How are we doing as a company? What are you loving? What are you hating? What's making your life difficult? Like what are blockers? And do you have any feedback from me as your lead? And I loved that because on a monthly basis that is way easier. Yearly reviews. I hate when offices wait till the yearly 'cause that's tied to a metric and like we're not a corporate we're not Wells Fargo. Like

Have a monthly one-on-one. So if I were to pull action items, it would be clear as kind, get those job descriptions, get those morning huddles in place. If they are in place, what can you do to spice them up a little bit this week? And where are your monthly one-on-ones? Where are you getting to know each team member individually, whether it's you or their office manager? And then I think my last piece would be really look at the things that you're doing every day, maybe journal. Like just every time you do something, write it down and go through and highlight what do you s what do you have to do?

And then what are some things that you could delegate off and then how will you do that? Nikki, this is a beautiful podcast. Thank you so much for spending your time with me today. I appreciate you. And I just love the joy that you're bringing to so many practices. Thank you for what you do.

Nikki Mack (25:12)

Yeah, thanks for having me. I love it.

Tiffanie (25:14)

Of course, of course. All right, listeners, you know what to do. Go leave us a five-star review. Let us know how you enjoyed today's podcast and who you'll be sending it to. Go send it to somebody. Like legitimately, you guys know other owners. You guys know people who need to hear this same message. You are not alone, and neither are they. Make sure that they know that. So go send this podcast to someone. And as always, [email protected], and we'll catch you next time. Bye guys.

Did you know: Today's dentists are waiting five years longer to buy a practice than they were a generation ago?

Kiera is joined by Brian Hanks of Dental Buyer Advocates to talk about delayed ownership traps and why the future of private practice is an encouraging one (Brian shares numerous data points to back that up). They also touch on overcoming fears and all the information out there that makes everyone seem more prepared for business ownership than they actually are, and how to go about buying a practice while asking the right questions.

Episode resources:

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Transcript:

Kiera (00:00)

Hello, Dental A Team Listeners, this is Kiera, and today is an awesome day. I am so excited to be podcasting with one of my favorite humans. He and I have spoken across the country together. We go to different things, we share clients together. I have Brian Hanks, the owner of Dental Dental Buyer Advocates. And today we're gonna talk about like delayed ownership trap because I think so many people get stuck into this of should I buy, should I not buy? And Brian and I are just here to have a fun rift. So, Brian, welcome to the show today. How are you?

Brian Hanks (00:28)

So nice to be back, Kiera. You're one of my favorite people too. Thank you for having me.

Kiera (00:32)

Of course. I'm excited, Brian. It's a good time. It's been a hot minute since we podcasted together. So it's time, it's time to talk about this. Because when we were chatting about episodes, you were saying that dentists are now waiting like five years longer to buy a practice than they were a generation ago, which is fascinating to me because I've been on this like whole hot to trap of like, do people buy? Are DSOs taking over? Like, is there still money to be made in private practice? Like literally my chiropractor and I were talking about this the other day because she's like,

My dentist told me that they were like not able to make any money. And I was like, well, they sh just give them my card. Like private practice to me is still one of the best businesses and industries, even if you have to buy a top dollar right now. and so just like super fascinating to talk about like delaying that purchasing, why people do it. But Brian, I've jumped right in and pretended like everybody knows who you are. Brian, give us a little intro of like who you are, how you got into Dental Buyer Advocates, what your background is, and then like let's talk about to delay or not delay buying a practice.

Brian Hanks (01:29)

Sure.

Yeah, I one of my favorite stories. I'm an ex-Wall Street guy, so I'm a reformed Wall Streeter. And my father-in-law is a dentist. And I would watch these Wall Street people come in and like sell a very aggressive investments. And when they went bust, they would turn around and sell the crappy investments to dentists who at the time my was my father in law. Active practice, he lived in the Seattle area. And anyway, I went to go work for a dental CPA in the Dallas area. I went to work for another one. So I'm I've lived in the accounting world, Kiera.

And when I was in that world, I got younger dentists who were in the pro they were the associates and they were asking accounting questions and tax questions and you know financial planning questions. And inevitably they would come back to dental practice ownership. Like, how do I do this? How much do I pay? Is

Kiera (02:13)

Yeah.

Brian Hanks (02:13)

is this a good deal? And so I went looking for the book. I was like, well, where's the book? I was on Amazon, I was other places. There was no book. And I thought, all right, well, let me try writing this book. Famous Last Words, by the way, it's way harder than you assume. But the book is called.

Very creatively, How To Buy A Dental Practice. And that helped me start my own business. And that's

Kiera (02:30)

I like it.

Brian Hanks (02:33)

what I do. I I only help buyers of dental practices. And, you know, Kiera, my business is good, your business is good. Dentist business, we can talk about why the future of private practice is very bright. I can give you some stats and

Kiera (02:46)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Hanks (02:46)

statistics. But one of the interesting, the most interesting facts for me is Health Policy Institute has data that shows that.

Dentists get into ownership, like they they end up in ownership. Okay, so I'll give you like they've broken it down by like graduation rates. So like the the

Kiera (03:07)

And what I

Brian Hanks (03:08)

dental school grads from 1990 and then 1995, and everybody between 95 and 2000, so and so forth. So they have these like vintages of graduates. And

Kiera (03:16)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Brian Hanks (03:17)

very reliably, they're showing that nine out of ten dentists, of which you know there's 203,000 in the US, nine out of ten end up in ownership.

At some point in their career. But like you said,

Kiera (03:27)

Fascinating.

Brian Hanks (03:28)

they're waiting longer to do it. And I think that's what we're going to talk about.

Kiera (03:32)

Yeah. Which like again, I think people are scared. So many students I worked at Midwestern and they're like, Kiera, should I buy? Should I go associate? And I was like, listen, you're just delaying the inevitable so like get in there and get it done. Now, I like always throw an asterisk on that. Like if you're not good at your hand skills, like yeah, go go associate for a hot minute. like if you aren't confident with your speed and with case acceptance and like presenting, that's gonna be but I'll tell you there is nothing more thrilling than throwing yourself into a business that you have to produce for.

You learn case acceptance really freaking fast. Like, ask me how I know. We surely did that. Like I took a student, we took our first practice from 500,000 to 2.4 million in nine months. Like she was a she was a power producer. Do I have an office right now that just bought a practice less than a year ago? We're already on track for two and a half million. Yes. Like there are a lot of success stories from that small town. It's not like they were just given the keys to the kingdom. Like they've had to work for it, they've had to build things. They don't have full schedules. But

I just, I don't know. I'm the same way and I I don't know. I'm I'm at a space of but do what makes you happy. Like, do not go

Brian Hanks (04:37)

Yeah.

Kiera (04:38)

own a practice and make less than being an associate. That's like a hard line for me too. I'm like, 'cause if you're gonna like not be a good business owner, keep associating. But I

Brian Hanks (04:43)

No. Yeah.

Kiera (04:46)

agree, I feel like the trajectory of dentists is always to purchase. Like they want their own stamp, they want their name on the building. I will also highly recommend don't put your name on the building. Like that's really fun and not scalable. Ask me again how I know that. Like

Cura's dental consulting was real fun till it wasn't. Like the things you the things you evolve on, but truly I I'm excited to hear why you think people are delaying, what that's costing them. Brian, I love that you always come with a bunch of stats and facts. And I love that you named your book, like How To Buy A Dental Practice. That's what people want to know. so it sometimes simple is no, that is the best.

Brian Hanks (05:13)

I know. I just yeah. I'm not the best at marketing, right? So yeah, like we we call Kiera when we need

marketing advice. So okay.

Kiera (05:24)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Hanks (05:24)

So Kiera, here are some more stats for you.

Kiera (05:28)

Okay, ready?

Brian Hanks (05:29)

the average owner, dentist, makes $151,000 than the average more than the average associate. Okay, 151. Now that's

Kiera (05:37)

I was like, hold on, 151

is bad. That's more than if you're being an associate. You're gonna make 151,000 more. Okay.

Brian Hanks (05:43)

Yep. Yeah. And think about why

that is. Yep. That's obviously the you're taking on the risk. You're taking on the the pain and suffering of being an owner, right? So there's some compensation involved in

Kiera (05:51)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Hanks (05:52)

that. Those are two medians, right? And there is a bell curve around both of those numbers. So is it possible

Kiera (05:57)

Course.

Brian Hanks (05:58)

to make less as an associate? Yes. Yeah. Is it possible

to make a hell

Kiera (06:01)

Mm-hmm. Uh-huh.

Brian Hanks (06:02)

of a lot more than $151,000 more than an associate? Absolutely, yes, right. So there's there's room on both end of the ends of those those bell curves. but think about

So here's why I one of the data points why I think private practice ownership and dentistry is still it's bright and it's getting brighter. Is you think about the average associate you talk to, Kiera, the average associate I talk to when we're standing around a cocktail party or at mid mid the you know, wherever, some conference, Yankee, Midwestern.

Kiera (06:30)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Hanks (06:31)

And I will tell you the average associate that I talk to isn't saying, gosh, Brian, you know what? I love my boss. I love the DSO I'm working for.

I love my hours. I love the insurances we take, the assistant they force me to use, I love her, right? It's the future of private practice dentistry is bright because dentists are people. And people generally like

Kiera (06:52)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Hanks (06:52)

a little bit of control over their career if they can get it. And dentists absolutely can get it. So that's one of the data points that

Kiera (06:55)

Yeah.

Brian Hanks (06:58)

I love. Now, are dentists scared to get into ownership? And do higher on average student loan balances scare them marginally more than they did 10 years ago, 20 years ago? For sure.

Yep, absolutely. Here's the mistake

Kiera (07:11)

Absolutely.

Brian Hanks (07:11)

they make. So I'll give the associates listening or the students or whoever it is that's maybe telling you, Kiera, or telling me, or they're telling their, you know, the the person next to them on the treadmill at the gym while they're listening to this, like, sure, Brian, easy for you to say, but I don't feel ready. Right? I haven't taken all of Care's courses.

Kiera (07:30)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Hanks (07:31)

I haven't, I don't know how you know, I'm not the pro at treatment planning. My hands beat because you I I want to take this implant course first, right?

You come up, your brain comes up with all these excuses of why you don't feel ready. And I'm not gonna dismiss your feelings. I think your

Kiera (07:45)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Hanks (07:46)

feelings are valid. You should listen to them, but don't here here's another thing to consider in addition to your feelings. Is you know how there were like a hundred people in your dental school class, probably ish, right? And 10 of whom you would never let near your teeth. Like you watch them go through all four years of dental school and you're like,

Okay, of those 10 over there, like they're never getting, they're never giving me a shot. They're never in that nothing, right?

Kiera (08:10)

Yep.

Brian Hanks (08:10)

Because I guarantee you, nine out of ten of those dentists, they already own their practice. They're not bankrupt. They're making more money than you,

Kiera (08:16)

Yeah.

Brian Hanks (08:17)

and they are killing it. Meanwhile, you're scared to run a practice. And those, if

Kiera (08:22)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Hanks (08:22)

those jokers can figure it out, you can figure it out.

Kiera (08:26)

Totally. Well, and I think also on there like, Brian, let's be real. Is anybody ready to be a business owner? Like I wasn't, I'm sure you weren't.

Brian Hanks (08:31)

Nope. Nope.

Kiera (08:33)

I think are people ready to be parents? The answer is no. Like nobody feels ready for that. Were you ready when you went into dental school? The answer's no. I think that there's this imposter syndrome that hits us all that we think, like, give me a little more time and I'm gonna get ready. Give me a little more time. And I will say that like the brass taxes, you jump into owning a business and you figure it out. Now, should you listen to some podcasts? Should you do some things? Like for sure.

But

like how many consultants and coaches are there that literally are gonna like grab your hand, walk you through, and make sure you don't make the mistakes? Like how many people like yourself are gonna walk you through buying the practice to where it's an actually great practice? I I think that I think there's more help today. Now, do I think there's a lot of noise and a lot of people that might be like posturing out there saying that they know what they're doing? Yes. So make sure you like vet them a little bit before you go and jump on a bandwagon of somebody, like someone who's been there, done that, done that successfully multiple times is who I'd bet on. But like

We are in such a day and age where there is so much information out there. You need to be a great clinician. We're gonna teach you how to be a great business owner. And as long as you're comfortable realizing that you've got to learn that side of it, that's to me, like if you're a good producer and you're a good human, like go for it. There's dentistry is so fun owning and practice because the sky is the limit. And ultimately there is no cap on what you're able to do, what you're able to produce, how you're able to do it.

And I think that there are very few careers out there, very few job opportunities that really are the sky's limit. Now, remember how I told you about that dentist who bought their own practice. They're now doing like two fifty this year, whatever they're he was making five hundred thousand as an associate. And so this

Brian Hanks (10:06)

Yeah. Hi Bart.

Kiera (10:08)

is one where like people be like, Well, gosh, like, you know, he went from five hundred thousand and now he's at a two point, I think he's gonna end around two to two point four this year. But like he had a great associateship. And so I think

There is still this just like uncanny, unnatural desire that you want to just own, you want to build. And I think dentistry is also if I look at like banks, they lend to dental practices, like almost guaranteed, like they have a they're pretty lucrative with like just shelling money out to your dental practice. And I'm like, if banks are willing to back, you've got to also see that your dental practice, like you have the greatest opportunity of not failing.

of any business venture you're going to do. Why is private equity coming in strong? Because they know dental practices are almost bulletproof of an investment to have. So when I look at all those reasons, I agree with you, Brian. People don't feel like they're ready, but I'm like, you're never gonna feel ready. But you have so many things stacking in your favor to help you be successful.

Brian Hanks (11:03)

At the beginning of that, I

I don't I don't want people to miss that. If they missed the wisdom that Kiera just shared at the beginning of that, as she said, yeah, you use parenting. I think you use business ownership as some advice. Like I I just want to repeat what you said because it's so important. Dentistry is not like, I don't know, Kiera, scuba diving, right? If you go get scuba certified, you like practice in the pool. And then they like make you, you know, they learn, you know, you you learn taking the regulator out of your mouth and putting it back in and all that. And I imagine like dentists think

ownership, like there's gonna be some course I can take that's gonna prepare me for ownership kinda like scuba certification. That's like you gotta help me come up with

Kiera (11:38)

Yeah.

Brian Hanks (11:39)

a better example, but it's not it's not true. It's like parenting,

Kiera (11:42)

I got you.

Brian Hanks (11:42)

it's like marriage. It's like I don't know, business ownership, whatever it is. Like the the thing that prepares you for it is just doing it. Just just

try it out.

Kiera (11:50)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Hanks (11:50)

Yep.

Kiera (11:51)

Well, and I think Brian, to that point, like the analogy is I think people think business ownership is a skill that can be learned in a one, two, three step versus like marriage, relationships, child, like being parents, business ownership. It's an evolution of soul and it's a it's a creating of who you are. It is not a skill. Like there are skill points to it, like learning to read a p PL, learning how what profitability is.

But business ownership in and of itself, I had a friend she's like, Kiera, you have to have kids. Like it will strip you down to your core and it will like show things to you that you've never had. And I said, Have you ever been a business owner? Cause I'll tell you that I'm pretty confident. I've got a lot of that stripping over here that's like breaking me down to my utter like most. But I think we think business ownership and running a practice, I'm not here to say that there's not like tactical pieces and we've broken it down. Like our team actually just went through this something. I'm like, there's really like

10 things that you need as systems that are really gonna make or break it. And you gotta know a couple of like core foundations and you got to know your numbers. Like beyond that, that's kind of your checklist. But to your point of like scuba diving or cooking or whatever, it's not this like checklist skill that you're going to have. And so I think, like you said, you're gonna look for this course. But I'm like, the course is life, the course is doing it, the course is going through it. And I think you've got to have the confidence of are you confident in you that no matter what comes your way, you're gonna be able to figure it out. And if so, business ownership is there for you.

And I would give more confidence to you than you give yourself. I've watched a lot of students. I worked at Midwestern. To your point of those 10 students, there was probably like 50 of them. Sorry, Midwestern grads, I was not letting any of you touch my mouth. Like genuinely, you needed a few years to practice and I'm not your practicey. But like I think I think you're more equipped than you give yourself credit for. Just like you're more equipped for life than you give yourself credit for. And I think business ownership is the same.

Brian Hanks (13:31)

So Kiera, let's break down some of those numbers. by the way, better

analogy for business ownership is like health. Do you remember the first time by the way? if you're listening to this, it's pretty obvious if you're watching, but if you're listening, Kiera's in a lot better shape than me. But if if Kiera, I don't know if you had this moment. I I did when I was like 21, 22, that I realized at the I was at the gym, I was like lifting some weights, and I realized, I'll never be done with this. Like you're never done with health. So I think business ownership is a lot like.

Kiera (13:59)

I do remember my moment

of that. Mine was

Brian Hanks (14:01)

Yeah.

Kiera (14:03)

not at the gym, Brian. Mine was actually in Bali, like a little flex there. I remember because

Brian Hanks (14:07)

There you go.

Kiera (14:07)

I was like having a lot of like knee and hip pain. And I was like, okay, I just have to like work out and then eventually this is gonna get better. And I remember I was walking down to the pool overlooking the ocean. I was like, I'm never gonna be done. Like this is my forever. Like I'm not like I used to just work out to be like skinny and fit. And now I'm like, no, you gotta do this so you don't freaking hurt and you can actually walk and get out of bed. Like it's never gonna end. And

I

sat there and read a book, quite depressed. And then I was like, okay, like this is what it you're right. It's it's a constant evolution of soul. You're never done parenting, you're never done in a relationship. Like you don't hit this, like, check the box, we've got a golden thing. It is a forever perpetual. But I also think that that's what drives dentists to go into that because they are of this obsession of wanting to be the best of the best. You want to get a better prep. You want to get a better crown crop. You go to CE, you're CE junkies out there. Like, this is just another level of obsession.

Of a space that's going to evolve you as a human and it's gonna allow you to grow. So yeah, thanks. That was that was a great that was a great analogy, Brian. Good good call on that one.

Brian Hanks (15:02)

Yeah. Yeah, the the

the negative of the health analogy is that you're never done, but the positive is you can break it down. Like you can learn how to do certain lifts a little better. You can learn how to macro track. You can learn diet and exercise.

Kiera (15:14)

So you're right, Brian. Like that was a solid call out on the health analogy. Like this is what people are obsessed about, but they want to have that evolution of soul. They want to like I think that that's why dentists are drawn to ownership, but I think they're just afraid. But I'm like, we're also afraid to work out. We're afraid to have kids. We're afraid like, so don't let fear hold you back. I think it's just a like, I don't know. It doesn't be like Nike, just do it, guys. Like that sounds like terrible business advice on my side.

Brian Hanks (15:37)

Well just do it and but remember

remember how good you weren't at at all the clinical stuff that you're really

Kiera (15:44)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Hanks (15:44)

good at now, right? So dentists, the the superpower that most dentists have is that attention to detail, like the obsession over the details and and the the minutiae. And and as a patient, like I gotta go to filling next week, and as a patient, I want my sister thinking about all of the all of the little details, right? and

Kiera (16:04)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Hanks (16:04)

that superpower is real.

And I want the density like lean into it. If you're listening to this and that evolution of soul that that Kiera's talking about, part of that evolution for you is just remembering that that superpower that you have comes like there's another side to that coin. It comes with a downside. And the downside is the overthinking when you're not.

You know you're not that good at a thing. And if you know you're not that good at finding a dental practice to buy, analyzing a dental practice to buy, actually buying that practice, applying for a loan, like talking to lawyers, all those things, your brain is gonna start to spin a little bit. And j but but but here's the good news: your brain spun a thousand times already. Remember that first time they opened up the little mannequin to like practice, like prepping a crown or something, and you were like, How do I even do this? Right.

Kiera (16:49)

Dexter, their little type

it on.

Brian Hanks (16:51)

Yeah, like seriously, like you figure this out. You like and if the dentists that I deal with they're the smartest people on the planet, they're awesome. And and so if you can figure that stuff out,

Kiera (17:02)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Hanks (17:02)

my gosh, like first of all, hire somebody else like you to just be amazing for you in all the areas that you aren't amazing, and just remember that it doesn't this isn't rocket science. yeah, so you can figure this stuff out.

Kiera (17:14)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Hanks (17:14)

But okay, so speaking of minutia, speaking of details, I gave you the hundred and fifty one thousand dollar number.

Okay, here I did some math. I'm an accountant. I I know I know spreadsheets.

Kiera (17:22)

Yeah.

Brian Hanks (17:24)

I know how to do like compound interest and some those things. Here's what I did is I just is I said, what's the cost? Okay, if dentists aren't feeling ready, they want to feel like they have their student loans under control, which is smart, right? I'm a financial planner. Yeah, don't get yourself over your skis in debt. That's great. But like, how much is it gonna cost if you're the statistic?

Right. And the statistic is you're you, listener, right now, if you're not a practice owner, are waiting five years longer to own a practice. How much does that five years cost you? Right. And if you do the math, and I did the math at like a 38-year-old dentist versus a 33-year-old dentist. And I assumed that they actually retired at age, both retired at age 60. Okay. So like different lengths of associate part of your career and owner part of your career.

with compound interest, assuming 7% and some of those other variables that I put in there, it was a $1.14 million difference between those two numbers. So don't forget that while you're busy like taking care of your student loans so you can feel ready to buy a practice, it's costing you an enormous amount of money. And Kiera, I would just add, and I'm curious if you can think of any others, I would say the compound.

the compound effect that I'm talking about is not just money, although money is a big part of it. I think the compound effect applies to other things. Like how many more times and at bats would you have for treatment planning, for managing that difficult assistant, teaching someone how to answer the phones better, hiring, firing. Like there's a compound effect on all of those behavioral things too and and it's gonna cost you some money. So any thoughts on that?

Kiera (19:04)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I think it's a I I was fascinated. I'm so glad that you went into the 1.1 because we had talked about that pre-show and I was just very fascinated of like, my gosh, like that's so much for people. That's so many things. Like there's a financial dollar amount, which I love because I think dentists really do. Like that's an easy one for me to be like, gosh, like me delaying this decision can cost me that much. But I think like there's also you still have to go through the

growth of learning to run a business. So not only is there a financial delay, but there's also the growth of you getting good at running a business and having it profitable and being able to make this thing run longer. And then you have more opportunities like I think about yourself. And the longer you're able to build this practice and like maybe do multiple like there's to me that's like such a it's fascinating. And I think I think the the call to today is there are some people that definitely are meant to be owners and there's some that aren't.

but I think if you have that itch, that scratch, I would really ask yourself, like, what truly are you waiting for? And when are you going to know that you're actually ready? Like you're never going to feel ready to have a child. You're like, I need to get these ducks in a row. Well, those ducks get in a row and then you got seven more ducks that come behind that you're like, I need get those in a row. So to me it'd be if I'm really wanting to buy a practice, what things do I need to have? Cl schedule a call with Brian. Like, I think Brian, this is why we put you on the podcast. I think you're fantastic. You don't put people into weird zones. you're very much like

If that dentist is producing and you don't do those skills and you don't do those type of procedures, don't buy that practice. Like you're not, you're gonna be broke. You're very, very pro making sure people feel confident and that they're able to buy it. And I think it's like buying a home. I remember when I first like went and talked to somebody about buying a home, I had no freaking clue and I wish I would have known more. But like until you start having the conversations, I think it can feel more daunting than it actually is. Then from there, like listen to the podcast, start listening to there's our podcast, there's other podcasts out there, start reading up on how to buy a practice.

But I think to me, there is like two parts to it. One is finding the right practice. Like what you buy, and I say like eyes wide open when you're looking in, and then rosy glasses as soon as you sign on that dotted line, and you're gonna see a lot and you're just gonna deal with it. From there, make sure you got somebody really solid in your corner. Like our practices, as soon as they buy, we take them on. I try to get them two to three months before they close. I wanna make sure we're getting things in. If you don't close on time or things happen, no problem. We're gonna pause you, get your practice in place. Like it's happened twice in hundreds of offices we've helped.

But then, like from there, just have somebody in your corner, somebody who's gonna help you grow in your first year. Most practices are seeing like a 10 to 30% increase in their first year. So if I'm buying a one million dollar practice, that's a hundred to three hundred thousand dollar uptick just by having somebody in the corner. That's very conservative. A million dollar practice, like we are usually growing those exponentially. But like you don't have to stress and freak out. Hey, I'm pinned.

Brian Hanks (21:45)

Yep. By the way, I I d pin put a pin, put a pin, Kiera. You you gotta you gotta underline that. Yeah.

That's like underline that, underline it. Like keep going, keep going. I I'm throwing you off. I'm interrupting you, but like I will tell you the

Kiera (21:59)

Yeah.

Brian Hanks (21:59)

average buyer I talk to on the phone is so scared of patient attrition. They're like, Kiera, like

I'm gonna have 10%, 20%. What if 50% of the patients don't show up? Listen, that's a real fear. By the way, I want you to have that

Kiera (22:10)

Right. Mm-hmm.

Brian Hanks (22:12)

fear when you're like doing the margin on my crown, right? Like again, it's your superpower dentist,

Kiera (22:16)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Hanks (22:17)

but like my stats show exactly the same thing, Kiera is saying I have data to support what Kiera is saying that the average

Kiera (22:22)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Hanks (22:24)

dentist doesn't they have a negative attrition, which is just two negatives, right? So it's a positive. They the average buyer has more enthusiasm, they've got some more energy, they're gonna update the website, they're gonna maybe get rid of.

That one employee that everybody kind of knew probably s needed to go. And suddenly the practice is just gonna it's gonna take off. Ten to thirty percent. That's yeah, right in line with what I'm seeing. That's awesome. So sorry, I I'm interrupting you, keep going.

Kiera (22:47)

Mm-hmm. And I think, no, y you are always this is a conversation. It's not like a dictation. So we're like this is real life rift here. I just think people like when you look at it, I think you're more capable than you think you are. I know that you can get the skills, you can figure it out. Like you said, I'm always like, okay, play the what ifs, lose 50% of your patients. Great. Well, we're gonna take those 50%. And there's ways you can actually grow a practice without even needing to have more new patients.

So

we're gonna maximize all those, we're gonna optimize them. You're going to pull in more people. Like it is one of those things that I'm like, I have yet to have a practice go bankrupt. So knock on wood, like you can be my first challenge accepted. Like I feel very confident that I'm not like, unless you completely botch it and you go into malpractice, like we're probably gonna be just fine. So odds of it happening, so minimal. Are you gonna be a little stressed out? Yeah. Like, welcome to business ownership, but you're also looking for growth, and that's why you're being called to this moment. Like

It will not go away. That itch will not go away until you scratch it. And scratching it, and I love that you said like they're waiting five years and that's a $1.1 million minimum. There's so many other pieces to it. So I think I think a lot of dentists like to have facts. I think a lot of dentists like to have that decision make logical sense. And then we back it up with emotional reasons. And I think it's a wise way to make decisions. But I I would just say if you're even remotely curious, like start going down the path. I know when I was going to buy a house.

I needed to go find out, like, I don't know about lenders, I didn't know about interest rates. I did and until you get into it, just like you wanted to be a dentist, but until you got into it and you started working on that type it on and you learned about dropping the box and like waxing it up and working on Dexter and then taking x-rays, like you didn't know it. And I think most of the time the fear comes from the lack of knowing. I will also say, and I've seen this a lot, Brian, a lot of dentists feel like because I'm a doctor and I'm a dentist, if I buy a practice, I should know how to run a practice. And

Brian Hanks (24:38)

And

Kiera (24:38)

I just want to like

Scratch that out. I want to tell you that that's not true. But I know a lot of you come in feeling like but Kiera, I'm a dentist, or Brad, I'm a dentist, like I'm a doctor, like people expect me to know this. And I want to say you think people expect you to know that, but the reality is you don't. You just need to be scrappy enough to figure it out. No one's expecting you to know anything. Honestly, you probably know way more than you think you do already. But I I want to just cut that because I know a lot of you have perfectionism like fear of being exposed that you're not that great.

Except that you don't know how to run a business just like you didn't know how to prep a crown, but you learned that and you're gonna learn how to do a business and you're gonna do it exponentially well because you are so detail oriented and you're gonna hire a great team around you, hire great coaches around you that you're literally like it's impossible for you to fail. And so I think Brian, like kudos on it, kudos on the stats, any other thoughts that you have around people and like how do they get to the nitty-gritty of actually going through

Brian Hanks (25:26)

Let's get some yeah. I'll hit I'll hit you with more stats. Yeah.

Kiera (25:31)

that.

Brian Hanks (25:32)

Some more facts for dentists. You and you mentioned the failure rate. What is the actual failure rate in dentistry? It's it's 0.14% of dentists go bankrupt. Okay. And it's always, always, always one

Kiera (25:43)

Incredible.

Brian Hanks (25:43)

of three things. It's drugs, divorce, and then jail. You know, some kind of felony that doesn't have anything to do with practice. so you stay away from those

Kiera (25:51)

Yep.

Brian Hanks (25:52)

three things and you're guaranteed not to go bankrupt.

And it so what do dentists actually need to buy practice? We've done a good job of pumping people up, given the rah-rah speech. What do you actually need? You need five things, okay? and I almost guarantee you, unless you're in dental school right now, listening to this, you have the five right now. All right. almost guaranteed. and I'll go from hardest to easiest, Kiera. Okay. Hardest for people to get is you need 50k

Kiera (26:18)

Okay.

Brian Hanks (26:19)

cash. You need some cash. 50k is your magic number.

Has to be liquid. It's gotta be in a checking

Kiera (26:24)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Hanks (26:24)

savings money market account. Can't be in an IRA or home equity or something like that. but you need that money to show the bank that you're responsible. And by the way, you don't actually hand that money over to the bank. You keep it. Yeah, the bank just wants to see that you have some money to see that you're responsible.

Kiera (26:39)

Mm.

Brian Hanks (26:40)

And if you know COVID shuts us down again, can you still pay the bank the bank back a few months? All right. So most people have that.

Kiera (26:46)

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Brian Hanks (26:47)

They've got fifty K or access to fifty K. That's like a side thing we could talk about.

Kiera (26:51)

Totally.

Brian Hanks (26:52)

Yep.

Kiera (26:52)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Hanks (26:53)

you need production history. You got to be able to do about 80% of the production of what a seller could do. So million-dollar GP practice, let's say 250 of that Kiera is hygiene, means the doctor was doing 750k a year in production. that means you as an associate need to do about 600

a year

Kiera (27:12)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Hanks (27:12)

to buy a million-dollar practice. Okay. Most associates listening, you know, public health, military, there are some special exceptions where we need to learn how to count.

procedures and things

Kiera (27:22)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Hanks (27:23)

like that. But most associates, they can do 600 to buy a million dollar practice. Okay, the 80%. most dentists don't have any problem with numbers threes and four, number three and four. Number three is you got to have a credit score over 680. It's pretty low. And it's a green light, red light. 681 credit score gets you the same interest rate as an 820. And and then you need a clean credit history is number four. And so no bankruptcies, no short sales, or a really good story.

Behind a bankruptcy or short sale. And then you need one year of experience out of dental school or a residency program. GPR, AEGD, specialty program, whatever it is. If you're in a residency program, you could buy a practice the day you get out of your residency. So that's it. And so technically, Kiera, you need number six. Number six is you need a practice to buy. And I'll be I'll be really blunt with people, that's the

Kiera (28:17)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Hanks (28:17)

hardest step.

Finding a good practice to buy is the hardest thing because everybody

Kiera (28:21)

I agree.

Brian Hanks (28:22)

wants to look for the practice in their pajamas. They think it's like buying a house. Like I'm gonna go on the MLS and I'm gonna look

Kiera (28:28)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Hanks (28:28)

for a dental practice. There is no such thing as the DLS, there's no dental listing service. And so if you're in your pajamas looking for a practice to buy, it's

Kiera (28:34)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Hanks (28:36)

not there. Sometimes it is, which is why people do it, but it's almost certainly not there, especially in the city you want to live right now. and so we'll have a podcast episode about how to

Find a practice well. But the sh here's the short version is you go talk to dentists. Build a network of dentists that know like and trust you. That's the

Six things and and most associates have And so attitude, like don't let us stop you, don't be scared. Like we did the like pump you up version of the speech. And here's the facts to back that up, is it's not actually that hard. Like with those six things, banks will not only give you a hundred percent of the purchase price, they'll give you a hundred percent of the purchase price, and then they'll hand you another seventy-five K in cash just to make sure you don't run out of money on the first day. Sometimes it's a hundred K. I've seen d banks give two hundred thousand dollars in cash.

Kiera (29:21)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Hanks (29:21)

before they even walk through the doors with you know the key in hand as an owner. So it's awesome. If if you're thinking about ownership and nine out of ten dentists are at some point in their career, it's it's really not it's not it's simple. It's not necessarily easy, but it's simple.

Kiera (29:41)

Yeah. And Brian, even on the I've been talking to the Bank of America guys, and they were like, we even give like thirty to forty thousand to a new startup practice for consulting fees in addition to our working capital because

Brian Hanks (29:52)

Yeah.

Kiera (29:53)

we know that it's also going to help grow them. So there's so many pieces, and I think you've just listed off like really, I agree, like finding the practice and like sending out the postcards, getting to know the network, finding the dentist, like the practice that actually works for you, finding a seller that wants to sell for the price that you want.

I agree with you 100%. That is the hardest part. But I think Brian, you did an incredible job of breaking this down from the like, okay, you're probably gonna do it. Nine out of ten is do buy that. What are the exact steps that I need to take for this? And then I agree with you. Like, absolutely a follow-up podcast on like how to actually find a practice. But Brian, I'm curious if people are interested, like they want to start connecting and like this is what you do. And I know you guys are really generous with your time. How do people connect in with you to like even start the process? Like, again, I feel like curiosity.

Is the best place to be. Like let's just ask the questions. Let's figure it out. So Brian, how do people get connected in with you?

Brian Hanks (30:41)

Pop over to Amazon, type in How To Buy A Dental Practice. That's the book. if you want, by the way, if you want a cheaper copy, you can go to the website. The website is DentalBuyerAdvocates.com. I'm happy to ship it to you like as a publisher copy, no strings attached. but yeah, just pop over to Amazon, DentalBuyerAdvocates.com. Care if people want to email me directly. I always offer this. And it's so fascinating to me how few people actually take me up on it. I would be more than happy to have a half an hour conversation with whoever you are, free of charge.

Send me an email, [email protected]. It's B-R-I-A-N and Hanks like Tom Hanks. So yeah, that's how you get a hold of me.

Kiera (31:20)

Amazing.

Well, Brian, thank you for breaking this down and for all of you listening. I hope that today was just a really insightful podcast for you. I hope it gave you the facts to back it up. I hope it gave you the emotional piece. I hope it gave you kind of the like step by step by step of how to get there. I'm so grateful for Brian being here. Everybody connect in with him. And for all of you listening, thank you for listening and I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.