Charlie Awbery is a meditation teacher and longtime Vajrayana practitioner. Ordained in 2002 in the non-monastic Aro gTer lineage, their practice has spanned yidam, yogic song, chod, psycho-physical yogas, and solitary retreats. Alongside traditional Vajrayana, Charlie has trained in Gestalt psychotherapy and worked in mental health services and international human rights organizations. After twenty-five years in traditional Vajrayana, they co-founded Evolving Ground — a community for contemporary Vajrayana practice that integrates ancient tantric wisdom with modern psychological understanding.

In this conversation, we explore the distinction between Sutric and Tantric view and why it matters, different ways of approaching Vajrayana, and the vehicles of Buddhism and their different endpoints.

We get into why the Sutric view is so pervasive in Western Buddhism, why it can be problematic for householders, the effect of language and worldview on meditation practice, and different perspectives on awakening and enlightenment.

We also explore how Evolving Ground's Vajrayana differs from traditional Vajrayana, Chod practice and coming to terms with death, integrating emptiness and form practices, connecting Circling to Vajrayana, the teacher-student relationship in Evolving Ground, and learning through transmission and the We Space.

🔗 LINKS & RESOURCES 🔗

• Charlie's Vajrayana blog
•  Evolving Ground — Charlie's meditation community
•  Sutra to Tantra with Charlie Awbery and Jared Janes at the Stoa
•  Vividness — David Chapman

🕰️ TIMESTAMPS 🕰️

0:00 - Introduction
3:46 - Charlie's spiritual journey
6:26 - Sutric view vs Tantric view
10:36 - Different ways of approaching Vajrayana
12:52 - The vehicles of Buddhism and their different endpoints
17:14 - Eyes opened vs eyes closed in meditation
20:35 - The effect of language and worldview on meditation practice
25:56 - Why Sutra is so pervasive
29:41 - Why the Sutric view can be problematic for householders
37:14 - Deemphasizing suffering and other reasons for meditating
40:26 - Effects of Sutric vs Tantric meditation
43:22 - Different perspectives on awakening and enlightenment
51:20 - Can a beginner start with Tantric view and practice?
53:16 - Meta-systematic approach to meditation
58:45 - Buddhist dogma
1:01:19 - How Evolving Ground's Vajrayana differs from traditional Vajrayana
1:09:10 - Chod practice and coming to terms with death
1:16:08 - Integrating emptiness and form practices
1:18:55 - Connecting Circling to Vajrayana
1:23:30 - The teacher-student relationship in Evolving Ground
1:30:26 - Tacit knowledge, learning through transmission and the We Space

*Subscribe to my YouTube channel to watch the video versions of the Elevating Consciousness Podcast 

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River Kenna is a writer, inner work practitioner, and mythodynamics researcher. After spending the first 24 years of his life dealing with incessant mental chatter — and trying countless meditation techniques that offered little relief — it was somatic meditation that finally allowed him to dissolve his inner critic and find deep inner peace. Today his work explores somatic resonance, mythopoetic cognition, and experiments in graceful non-linear living. He teaches the Somatic Resonance course and conducts one-on-one sessions in somatic and imaginal practices.

In this conversation we explore the limits of most meditation approaches and what somatic meditation offers that conventional methods miss, accessing images through the body, and what mythopoetic cognition is and why it may be the engine of the mind.

We get into imaginal practice and dream work, the systematic vs spontaneous mode, staying with images over the long term, the non-linearity of dream work, and how imaginal work differs from parts work.

We also explore the distinction between improving and unfolding, left brain vs right brain, devotional productivity, and a dissection of the ideas of Carl Jung, James Hillman, and Rob Burbea.

🔗 LINKS & RESOURCES 🔗

• River's personal site
•  River on Twitter
•  Subscribe to River's Substack
•  Somatic Resonance Course
•  Somatic Descent — Reggie Ray
•  Imagination: A New Foundation for the Science of Mind — Stephen T. Asma
•  Mythopoetic Cognition as the Engine of the Mind — River Kenna at the Stoa
•  John Keats — Negative Capability
•  Inner Work — Robert A. Johnson
•  The Master and His Emissary — Iain McGilchrist
•  Technic and Magic — Federico Campagna
•  Rob Burbea
•  Carl Jung
•  James Hillman

🕰️ TIMESTAMPS 🕰️

0:00 - Introduction
1:58 - The limits of most meditations
4:37 - The transformative power of somatic meditation
9:48 - Accessing images through the body
16:26 - Mythopoetic cognition
27:17 - Imaginal practice and dream work
35:04 - Systematic vs spontaneous mode
39:48 - Staying with images over the long term
45:47 - The non-linearity of dream work
52:39 - How imaginal work differs from parts work
56:44 - Improving vs unfolding — left brain vs right brain
1:03:02 - Devotional productivity
1:16:51 - Dissecting Carl Jung, James Hillman, and Rob Burbea
1:25:01 - What River is working on now
1:28:17 - Final words

*Subscribe to my YouTube channel to watch the video versions of the Elevating Consciousness Podcast 

*Subscribe to the Insighter Substack to get in-depth articles on the theory and practice of human transformation through a post-conventional

Rosa Lewis is a spiritual teacher and inner work practitioner whose path to awakening included long periods of altered states and spiritual psychosis. Eventually returning to a functional state, her experience of reality was forever transformed. Her work draws deeply from Carl Jung, tantric Buddhism, and Rob Burbea, integrating Buddhist emptiness, shadow work, tantric embodiment, archetypal and imaginal work, mysticism, and heartfulness. She is currently developing a framework for whole being awakening that integrates theory and practice in a way that is holistic, alive, and in touch with the depths of being.

In this conversation, we explore Rosa's path towards awakening and how she navigated spiritual psychosis.

We get into inclusive vs exclusive perspectives on awakening, the whole being awakening model, hierarchy and power dynamics in spiritual communities, and how to assess the expertise and credibility of a spiritual teacher.

We also explore what emptiness actually is and why emptiness is not form, the monastic vs householder path, interdependent origination, pushing back against idealism, embodying the Brahma Viharas, and imaginal work.

🔗 LINKS & RESOURCES 🔗

• Rosa's personal site
•  Whole Being Awakening Model
•  Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha — Daniel Ingram
•  Shadow Work
•  Carl Jung
•  Rob Burbea
•  Why Emptiness is Not Form

🕰️ TIMESTAMPS 🕰️

0:00 - Introduction
1:39 - Rosa's path towards awakening
11:15 - Navigating spiritual psychosis
19:14 - Inclusive vs exclusive perspectives on awakening
26:00 - The whole being awakening model
31:56 - Hierarchy and power dynamics in spiritual communities
37:20 - Assessing the expertise and credibility of a spiritual teacher
45:47 - What is emptiness? And why emptiness is not form
53:54 - Monastic vs householder paths
57:17 - Interdependent origination
1:04:38 - Pushing back against the view of idealism — everything is mind
1:08:18 - As many Buddhisms as there are Buddhists
1:10:05 - Embodying the Brahma Viharas
1:15:16 - Imaginal work and swimming in imagination
1:20:20 - Rosa's awakening course and book

*Subscribe to my YouTube channel to watch the video versions of the Elevating Consciousness Podcast 

*Subscribe to the Insighter Substack to get in-depth articles on the theory and practice of human transformation through a post-conventional

Jonas Atlas is a scholar of religions, author, and lecturer whose work explores the intersection of religion, politics, and mysticism. Rooted in the Christian tradition, he has immersed himself in Hinduism, Islam, and Sufism, and has been active in local and international peace work with a focus on cultural and religious diversity. He currently teaches ethics and spirituality at the KDG University of Applied Sciences and Arts and is the author of several books including "Halal Monk," "Re-visioning Sufism," and most recently "Religion: Reality Behind the Myths."

In this conversation we explore why misunderstanding religion is a problem, the seven myths about religion and what they get wrong, and whether religion necessarily constitutes dogma.

We get into whether religion is fundamentally about God and transcendence, the difference between spirituality and religion — and the problem with "spiritual but not religious" as a position — defining what religion actually is, and the challenge of à la carte spirituality and why sticking to a path matters.

We also explore the limits of language in describing religious experience, the false dichotomy of secular and religious, and why the real issue underlying most problems with religion is literalism and fundamentalism — not religion itself.

🔗 LINKS & RESOURCES 🔗

• Jonas's personal site
•  Religion: Reality Behind the Myths — Jonas Atlas
•  Maps of Meaning — Jordan Peterson, in-depth book summary

🕰️ TIMESTAMPS 🕰️

0:00 - Introduction
2:40 - Jonas's upbringing and what led him to studying religion
10:05 - Why misunderstanding religion is a problem
19:55 - The seven myths about religion
25:00 - Does religion constitute dogma?
38:15 - Is religion about God and transcendence?
43:20 - Is there a difference between spirituality and religion?
57:04 - Hermitage interlude
1:02:16 - Defining religion
1:13:59 - The problem of à la carte spirituality and the importance of sticking to a path
1:20:56 - The limits of language
1:22:38 - The false dichotomy of secular and religious
1:36:57 - The real issue is literalism and fundamentalism

*Subscribe to my YouTube channel to watch the video versions of the Elevating Consciousness Podcast 

*Subscribe to the Insighter Substack to get in-depth articles on the theory and practice of human transformation through a post-conventional

Stephen Faller is a chaplain, educator, and author who serves as a Chaplain Educator at Overlook Medical Center, where he runs the Clinical Pastoral Education program. He is the founder and director of the Institute of Spiritual Midwifery — dedicated to the development of the theory, practice, and pedagogy of spiritual midwifery in the ministry of individuals, families, and organizations. His experience with cerebral palsy offers a rare and powerful perspective on the intersection of disability and spiritual caregiving. He is the author of several books including "The Art of Spiritual Midwifery" and most recently "Christianity and the Art of Wheelchair Maintenance."

In this conversation, we explore what spiritual midwifery actually is and how dialogue within it differs from casual conversation, the role of Circling and Dialogos in spiritual practice, and the intricacies of dialectic, paradox, and parables as tools of the spiritual midwife.

We get into indirect communication as a vehicle for authentic communication, why we don't argue over objective facts, the barriers to spiritual midwifery, and the tools of the spiritual midwife — including Socratic irony, negation, and the center.

We also explore the deeply personal — Artem speaks about his own health condition, Stephen speaks about living with cerebral palsy, and together they navigate the terrain of  COVID, loss, grief, and spiritual practice.

🔗 LINKS & RESOURCES 🔗

• Stephen's personal site
•  The Art of Spiritual Midwifery — in-depth book summary
•  Christianity and the Art of Wheelchair Maintenance — Stephen Faller
•  After Socrates lecture series — John Vervaeke
•  Games People Play — Eric Berne
•  The Yoga of Conversation with Guy Sengstock
•  Hegel
•  Heraclitus
•  Lao Tzu
•  James Hillman
•  Rolfing

🕰️ TIMESTAMPS 🕰️

Foundations of Spiritual Midwifery
0:00 - Introduction
2:54 - What is spiritual midwifery?
10:35 - How dialogue in spiritual midwifery differs from casual conversation
13:27 - Circling, Dialogos and John Vervaeke

The Intricacies of Spiritual Midwifery
17:25 - Dialectic, paradox and parables
29:05 - Indirect communication as a vehicle for authentic communication
34:12 - We don't argue over objective facts
42:43 - Barriers to spiritual midwifery

The Tools of the Spiritual Midwife
55:41 - How you say things vs what you say
58:16 - Socratic irony
1:00:32 - Negation
1:04:20 - The center

Dealing with Disability and Loss
1:10:10 - Artem speaks about his health condition
1:14:03 - Stephen speaks on living with cerebral palsy
1:20:57 - Rolfing, COVID, loss, grief and spiritual practice

Outro
1:38:20 - Overview of Stephen's work and his upcoming book

*Subscribe to my YouTube channel to watch the video versions of the Elevating Consciousness Podcast 

*Subscribe to the Insighter Substack to get in-depth articles on the theory and practice of human transformation through a post-conventional

Guro Hansen Helskog is a professor, author, and researcher whose work explores the philosophy of education, wisdom research, and how philosophical dialogue can be integrated into all levels of education. She is the author of "Philosophising the Dialogos Way Towards Wisdom in Education" — an analysis of different approaches to philosophical practice and how they can be integrated holistically to facilitate everything from critical thinking to spiritual contemplation.

In this conversation we explore the distinction between knowledge and wisdom and why it matters, Dialogos as an integration of different philosophizing approaches, and John Vervaeke's engagement with the Dialogos process.

We get into the experiences that uprooted Guro's atheistic beliefs, how the word "God" is useful to the degree that it opens perception, the six dimensions of wisdom-oriented pedagogy, Bildung and transforming education, and the wisdom famine — why we are collectively starving for genuine wisdom and why we fear philosophy.

We also explore why children should philosophize, developing the capacity for lifelong questioning, integrating God into humanity, why wisdom is transpersonal, and a free-flowing Dialogos exploring good, evil, synchronicity, polarization, and the meta-crisis.

🔗 LINKS & RESOURCES 🔗

• Philosophising the Dialogos Way Towards Wisdom in Education — Guro Hansen Helskog
•  John Vervaeke's "After Socrates" lecture series
•  The Yoga of Conversation with Guy Sengstock
•  Meister Eckhart
•  On the Aesthetic Education of Man — Friedrich Schiller
•  Bildung
•  Emile or on Education — Jean-Jacques Rousseau
•  Matthew Lipman
•  Maps of Meaning — Jordan Peterson, in-depth book summary

🕰️ TIMESTAMPS 🕰️

0:00 - Introduction
1:42 - What sparked Guro's interest in philosophizing and Dialogos
4:57 - Knowledge vs wisdom
13:53 - Dialogos as an integration of philosophizing approaches
22:50 - John Vervaeke's work with Dialogos
26:00 - What brought Artem to philosophizing, Dialogos and Circling
31:50 - The experiences that uprooted Guro's atheistic beliefs
42:00 - The word "God" is useful to the degree that it opens perception
48:25 - The six dimensions of wisdom-oriented pedagogy
1:00:45 - Bildung and transforming education
1:07:28 - Facilitating the Dialogos process
1:15:32 - The wisdom famine and fear of philosophy
1:18:00 - Why children should philosophize
1:26:12 - Developing the capacity for lifelong questioning
1:28:41 - Integrating God into humanity
1:38:08 - Wisdom is transpersonal
1:42:18 - A free-flowing Dialogos exploring good, evil, synchronicity, polarization and the meta-crisis

*Subscribe to my YouTube channel to watch the video versions of the Elevating Consciousness Podcast 

*Subscribe to the Insighter Substack to get in-depth articles on the theory and practice of human transformation through a post-conventional

Sean Wilkinson is a transformational coach, facilitator, and co-founder of Circling Europe — an organization that has brought the practice of Circling to over 25 countries worldwide. Before becoming a Circling leader, he was an elite tennis coach specializing in performance psychology. For the last 15 years, he has been deeply immersed in relational practices, meditation, coaching, wisdom traditions, therapy, and trauma work. His latest offerings focus on navigating the darker dimensions of developmental trauma and exploring nonduality in the context of Circling.

In this conversation, we explore what drew Sean to Circling and how his relationship with the practice evolved over 15 years, the healing potential of Circling, and what it means to go deeper into uncomfortable sensations and feelings rather than avoid them.

We get into releasing repressed sadness, the middle way of emotions, and how Circling integrates with meditation and therapy to create a more complete path of healing and development.

We also explore the dark dynamics of relating, how to navigate narcissistic and borderline patterns in relationships, balancing empathy with boundaries, and how to skillfully bring Circling, relatefulness, and vulnerability into your daily life.

🔗 LINKS & RESOURCES 🔗

• Circling Europe — Circling and leadership training
•  The Point of Existence — A.H. Almaas
•  The Relateful Company — Circling platform

🕰️ TIMESTAMPS 🕰️

0:00 - Introduction
2:14 - What made Sean fall in love with Circling
5:38 - How Sean's relationship with Circling changed over 15 years
11:30 - Healing with Circling
15:08 - Going deeper into uncomfortable sensations and feelings
22:13 - Releasing repressed sadness
34:14 - The middle way of emotions
40:14 - Integrating Circling, meditation and therapy
45:28 - The dark dynamics of relating
55:07 - Navigating narcissistic and borderline patterns
1:12:26 - Balancing empathy with boundaries
1:19:06 - How to skillfully bring Circling, relatefulness and vulnerability into your daily life

*Subscribe to my YouTube channel to watch the video versions of the Elevating Consciousness Podcast 

*Subscribe to the Insighter Substack to get in-depth articles on the theory and practice of human transformation through a post-conventional

Tom Cheetham is an author, teacher, biologist, and poet whose work navigates philosophy, systematic entomology, complexity sciences, and depth psychology. Today his work centers on the ideas of Henry Corbin, Carl Jung, and James Hillman — exploring creative imagination, the soul, and the imaginal in human life and culture. He writes and lectures on these topics internationally and is the author of "Boundary Violations," "All the World an Icon," and "Imaginal Love" among others.

In this conversation, we explore imagination through the lens of three towering figures — Carl Jung, James Hillman, and Henry Corbin — and what their work reveals about the nature of psyche, soul, and reality.

We get into the pathology of literalism and whether it leads to depression, literalism as reification, and the crucial distinction between feelings and emotions — what Hillman called thinking with the heart.

We also explore fear, openness, wonder, and hermeneutics, the central insights of psychedelics, Buddhism, and the imaginal and how they converge, Tom's Iboga journey in Brazil and what it revealed, aliveness, Eros and death, and a message of optimism in a time of crisis.

A rich and intellectually demanding conversation for anyone drawn to depth psychology, archetypal psychology, and the imaginal.

🔗 LINKS & RESOURCES 🔗

• Imaginal Love — Tom Cheetham, in-depth book summary
•  The Test of the Veil — Tom Cheetham
•  Blue Fire — James Hillman
•  The Thought of the Heart and the Soul of the World — James Hillman
•  Alone with the Alone — Henry Corbin
•  Re-Visioning Psychology — James Hillman
•  The Matter with Things — Iain McGilchrist
•  Matter and Memory — Henri Bergson
•  The Jazz of Physics — Stephon Alexander
•  High Weirdness — Erik Davis
•  The Super Natural — Jeffrey Kripal & Whitley Strieber
•  Swimming in the Sacred — Rachel Harris
•  Luce Irigaray
•  Flesh of My Flesh — Kaja Silverman
•  Gloria E. Anzaldua
•  Relateful — platform for Circling

🕰️ TIMESTAMPS 🕰️

0:00 - Introduction
1:16 - Imagination in James Hillman, Carl Jung and Henry Corbin
19:09 - The pathology of literalism
36:28 - Does literalism lead to depression?
52:42 - Literalism as reification
56:18 - Distinguishing feelings from emotions — thinking with the heart
1:12:13 - Fear, openness, wonder, awe and hermeneutics
1:27:22 - The central insights of psychedelics, Buddhism and the imaginal
1:37:02 - Tom's Iboga journey in Brazil, High Weirdness and Jeffrey Kripal
1:57:09 - Aliveness, Eros and death
2:00:17 - A message of optimism in a time of crisis — rethinking the nature of relationship

*Subscribe to my YouTube channel to watch the video versions of the Elevating Consciousness Podcast 

*Subscribe to the Insighter Substack to get in-depth articles on the theory and practice of human transformation through a post-conventional

Loch Kelly is an award-winning author, meditation teacher, psychotherapist, and founder of the Effortless Mindfulness Institute. His teachings synthesize ancient wisdom practices, neuroscience, and contemporary psychology into an accessible and direct path to awakening. He has been sharing his work in retreats and workshops internationally for over 25 years and is the author of "Shift into Freedom" and "The Way of Effortless Mindfulness."

In this conversation, we explore how Loch discovered Effortless Mindfulness and what makes it distinct from conventional deliberate mindfulness approaches, whether it's possible to stabilize awakening without years of long meditation retreats, and what the real barriers to recognizing awakened awareness actually are.

We get into awakening as the next stage of human development, the neuroscience of awakening, why calming the mind is only the first stage of meditation, and what it means to democratize awakening — including a series of mindful glimpses Loch guides us through during the conversation.

We also explore integrating psychotherapy and meditation, a mature understanding of emptiness and nonduality, and whether psychedelics can lead to awakening.

🔗 LINKS & RESOURCES 🔗

• Loch's personal site
•  Shift into Freedom — Loch Kelly
•  The Way of Effortless Mindfulness — Loch Kelly
•  Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche
•  Dan Brown
•  Pointing Out the Great Way — Mahamudra lineage
•  Michael Taft

🕰️ TIMESTAMPS 🕰️

0:00 - Introduction
2:26 - How Loch Kelly discovered Effortless Mindfulness
9:07 - Is it possible to stabilize awakening without long meditation retreats?
12:31 - Contrasting deliberate vs effortless mindfulness approaches
19:59 - Barriers to recognizing awakened awareness
32:51 - Awakening as the next stage of human development
36:07 - Why we don't need 10,000 hours of meditation to awaken
45:13 - The neuroscience of awakening
51:04 - Calming the mind is only the first stage of meditation
54:33 - Democratizing awakening and the Mindful Glimpses app
58:51 - Loch guides us through a series of mindful glimpses
1:17:48 - Integrating psychotherapy and meditation
1:29:18 - A mature understanding of emptiness and nonduality
1:38:50 - Can you realize awakening through psychedelics?

*Subscribe to my YouTube channel to watch the video versions of the Elevating Consciousness Podcast 

*Subscribe to the Insighter Substack to get in-depth articles on the theory and practice of human transformation through a post-conventional

Kyle Kowalski is an ex-marketing executive turned solopreneur who left the corporate world after experiencing an existential crisis that forced him to question everything. He founded Sloww — a digital knowledge base and community sharing insights into the art of living for students of life. An interdisciplinary dot collector and synthesizer, Kyle creates in-depth book summaries, e-books, and a wisdom-packed weekly newsletter integrating slow living with meaning, purpose, money mastery, transformational learning, and human development.

In this conversation, Kyle shares the story of his existential crisis and what it took to leave the corporate world behind, what slow and intentional living actually means in practice, and how he built a life deliberately oriented around purpose, simplicity, and depth.

We explore what purpose is and the Japanese concept of IKIGAI, the hierarchy of happiness and what the research actually says about what makes life worth living, the synthesizing mind, how Kyle structures his learning and reading, and the stages of Sloww as a framework for the art of living.

We also get into financial freedom and money mastery, how Kyle cut his expenses by 30% and what the FIRE movement gets right, free will and the lottery of birth — what nonduality has to say about both — and Kyle's thoughts on psychedelics.

🔗 LINKS & RESOURCES 🔗

• Sloww website
•  Kyle on Twitter
•  Subscribe to the Sloww Sunday newsletter
•  The Hierarchy of Happiness e-book — free download
•  IKIGAI 2.0 e-book
•  Sloww Premium Community
•  Posts on Free Will
•  How Kyle Cut His Spending by 30% in a Year
•  Early Retirement Extreme — Jacob Lund Fisker
•  A Synthesizing Mind — Howard Gardner
•  Introduction to Susanne Cook-Greuter's Ego Development Theory
•  How to Read a Book — Mortimer Adler

🕰️ TIMESTAMPS 🕰️

0:00 - Introduction
1:53 - Kyle's existential crisis
5:12 - Starting Sloww and intentional living
8:22 - The impact of slow and simple living
11:51 - Kyle's perfect day
14:08 - What is slow living really?
17:57 - What is purpose? & IKIGAI
21:06 - The hierarchy of happiness
25:39 - Discovering the synthesizing mind
29:28 - Structuring learning and reading
34:33 - The stages of Sloww — the art of living
38:22 - Insights into money mastery
43:17 - How to cut your expenses by 30%
48:41 - Free will, the lottery of birth and nonduality
1:05:01 - Exploring psychedelics — reservations, curiosities and experiences
1:24:32 - What's coming up next on Sloww?
1:25:53 - Kyle's process for summarizing books

*Subscribe to my YouTube channel to watch the video versions of the Elevating Consciousness Podcast 

*Subscribe to the Insighter Substack to get in-depth articles on the theory and practice of human transformation through a post-conventional