In this conversation, Professor Sam Vaknin and I delve into the complexities of narcissism, exploring its definitions, development, and the impact of childhood trauma.

⁠⁠His YouTube channel ⁠⁠features 1,955 videos that have garnered 90,135,484 views (and counting) and 418,000 subscribers, as of August 25th, 2025.

@narcissismwithvaknin

About Sam:

• Professor of Clinical Psychology, Business Management in CIAPS (Cambridge, Birmingham UK; Ontario, Canada; Lagos, Nigeria), SEEU (Visiting, N. Macedonia).
• PhD in Physics. Visiting Professor of Psychology, Southern Federal University, Rostov-on-Don, Russia (2017-22).
• Former economic advisor to governments, multinationals.
• Founder Healthcare Committee, Macedonia. Columnist, editor.
• Author of Malignant Self-love: Narcissism Revisited (1st edition 1999, 10th edition. in 2015).

Our conversation also touches on the dynamics of narcissistic relationships and the different types of narcissists, including pro-social narcissists, and their methods of manipulation.

• The distinction between healthy and pathological narcissism
• The role of the false self
• The emotional landscape of narcissists

We talk about the complexities of narcissism, distinguishing between pro-social and malignant narcissists. Professor Vaknin explains the manipulative tactics used by narcissists to ensnare their victims, emphasizing the psychological dynamics at play.

The discussion highlights the transition from victimhood to survival, the cyclical nature of narcissistic relationships, and the impact of narcissistic abuse on individuals.

Professor Vaknin also addresses the divide between clinical psychology and the lived experiences of victims, shedding light on the smear campaigns that often follow a relationship with a narcissist.

Ultimately, the conversation highlights the importance of self-empowerment and healing in the aftermath of such relationships.

Notable quotes from our interview:

• "Narcissism is a self-like state."
• "Pathological narcissism is an escape route."
• "The child engages in human sacrifice to this monotheistic God."
• "Narcissists resonate with you."
• "Narcissists outsource their emotions."
• "The narcissist has never become an individual."
• "You can become a baby again."
• "I give you permission to be weak."
• "85% of narcissists are classical."
• "They trigger in you the maternal protective instinct."
• "You get addicted to your own image."
• "Victimhood is not a life-oriented identity."
• "You have been victimized, but that does not define you."
• "Narcissists are promiscuous when it comes to mate selection."
• "Narcissistic abuse is about eliminating you."
• "Devaluation and discard can be internalized."
• "The smear campaign is not about you."
• "You are entangled, you're bound for life."