What’s actually happening to the church in America and why does it matter beyond Sunday morning? In this episode I’m joined by Ryan Burge, a social scientist who studies religion in the U.S. and brings long-term data, charts, and lived pastoral experience into a conversation often driven by fear or nostalgia. We discuss his book The Vanishing Church, the quiet decline of the moderate church, the rise of polarization inside Christianity, and how broader cultural tribalism has reshaped faith communities. We also explore the growth of the religious “nones,” why church closures are happening steadily but largely unnoticed, and what’s lost when the church can no longer function as a space where people learn how to live together across difference.

Ryan Burge is professor of practice at the John C. Danforth Center on Religion and Politics at Washington University in St. Louis. Before that he was an associate professor of political science at Eastern Illinois University, and was also the graduate coordinator. He has authored over thirty peer-reviewed articles and book chapters alongside four books about religion and politics in the United States. He has written for the New York Times, POLITICO, and the Wall Street Journal. He has also appeared in an NBC Documentary, on Full Frontal with Samantha Bee, as well as 60 Minutes which called him, “one of the country’s leading data analysts on religion and politics.” He served as a pastor in the American Baptist Church for over twenty years, leading First Baptist Church of Mount Vernon, IL for 17.5 years until its closure in July 2024. He has been married to his wife Jacqueline for over seventeen years. They have two boys.

Ryan's Book:

The Vanishing Church

Ryan's Recommendation:

Dominion

Connect with Joshua: [email protected]

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