Fire Protection Podcast

TIMELINE:
Introductions (2:32)
Terry's 20 Committees (4:26)
Terry's History (5:12)
Drew's History (8:13)
The Kozlowski days of Tyco (8:55)
Value of Fire Protection (12:00)
A Noble Industry (13:27)
20 Different Standards?! (14:45)
NFPA13, 14, 11, 16, and 25 (15:46)
NFPA303 - Marinas, Docks & Boat Yards (18:18)
NFPA4 - Test Agents (19:48)
Remote Testing, FDNY, COVID, and IoT (25:28)
The Cost of Freeze Ups  (30:00)
Allowances for Equipment in Systems (34:40)
Quick Response Round (35:34)
Crab Cakes or Boiled Crab? (35:55)

Discussed in this Episode: Johnson Controls (JCI), NFPA Codes and Standards, Inspection Data Collection, Internet of Things (IoT), Remote Monitoring and Testing

www.johnsoncontrols.com

https://www.johnsoncontrols.com/services-and-support/fire-maintenance-and-support/smart-connected-fire-sprinkler-monitoring

https://www.johnsoncontrols.com/fire-suppression/connected-fire-container-monitoring
 

Timeline:

Intro - 3:00

Cause Marketing - 5:00

Coffee Connoisseur - 7:30

Coffee Blending - 10:30

Coffee Grinding - 12:10

Fire Department Chronicles - 13:55

Friends of Firefighters - 15:30

Comedy & 1st Responders - 17:35

Hollywood & Firefighting - 18:30

Banyan Treatment Centers - 24:15

Comedy CPR - 25:45

Social Media / Comedy - 31:00

Coffee Blends - 33:00

Quick Response Round - 35:00

Best TV show about fire fighting - 40:00

Where can we find you? - 42:20

Discussed in the episode:

firedepartmentcoffee.com

Instagram - @firedepartmentchronicles

Facebook - Fire Department Chronicles

YouTube - Fire Dept. Coffee

Overseeing a facility, a campus or other building complexes come with a variety of challenges, ranging from staffing to training, to compliance on health, environmental, and fire safety. 

In Episode 26, Drew sits down with Joshua and Lindsey Brackett, co-founders of Legacy FM, to discuss facility management and fire protection in healthcare facilities.  Both have deep backgrounds in the facility management world and sit on various committees with ASHE and NFPA.   Legacy FM has started empowering through specific strategies for facility needs.  

2:30 - Introductions

5:45 - Legacy FM

11:00 - NICET

16:10 - Fire Protection Contractors / Bidding

21:00 - Healthcare codes / Joint Commission

27:30 - NFPA 4

28:30 - Technical Blip (Sorry)

29:00 - NFPA 4 / ASHE

33:00 - Data in Fire Protection / NFPA Research Foundation

37:55 - Book with ASHE

42:25 - Legacy FM and ASHE - YouTube Channel

50:45 - Quick Response Round

Discussed in the Episode:

energytocare.org

Legacy-FM.com

Contact Information:

[email protected]

[email protected]

https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshua-brackett/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/lindsey-brackett/

Timely for 10/4 - 10/11 Fire Prevention Week, Drew and Nancy Carbone talk about the work Friends of Firefighters have done to support mental wellness and mental health. The Founder and Executive Director, Nancy discusses the non-profit's history, its mission with firefighters and families, and how COVID has impacted and changed everything. Created after the tragedies of September 11th, Friends of Firefighters is a 501(c)3 not-for-profit organization dedicated to providing free, confidential mental health and wellness services.

Later in the conversation, they talk about the organization’s influence on the 2020 Judd Apatow comedy movie, The King of Staten Island.

Nancy started this non-profit venture back on September 11th, 2001 and has never looked back.  Their board of advisors includes a cast of FDNY officials and other industry leaders.  Steve Buscemi and Gary Sinise round out the board among many important names in the first industry.

2:30 - Introductions

3:56 - History / What they do

8:18 - Helping out the families

11:00 - September 11th Sicknesses / Suicides

13:18 - Separation from the FDNY

14:32 - Vincent Dunn

18:12 - Outreach Team

19:10 - COVID effects

23:46 - Back to School initiative

28:20 - NY Fire Sprinkler Contractor's Association

29:20 - Steve Buscemi (Board of Advisors)

31:30 - NYC Comedy-Drama, The King of Staten Island Movie

33:20 - Pete Davidson

38:46 - Friends of Firefighters beyond NYC

40:46 - Contact Info

Discussed in the Episode:

FriendsOfFirefighters.org

InspectPoint.com

Jamie Knowles is one of the leaders in the suppression industry focusing on the restaurant sector.  He gives some extraordinary facts about how Americans eat and what the impacts of the pandemic did to the prepared food industry. 

Intro - 4:15

Data about COVID times - 6:55

Faster Food vs Dining - 9:50

City vs Suburb vs Rural - 14:20

Ghost Kitchens - 15:30

NFPA and Food Trucks - 21:30

More Ghost Kitchens - 24:40

Electronic Detection Fire Suppression - 27:55

Internet of Things - 32:15

Industrial Chemical / Paint Booths - 38:00

Gas Station / Pemall Exit - 42:20

NAFED / How are the Fire Equipment Distributors doing? - 45:10

Incentives for techs - 47:50

Quick Response Round - 50:40

Contact Info - 54:50

Discussed in the Episode:
Amerex-fire.com

InspectPoint.com

Commercial Fire Protection has been a user of Inspect Point for almost 2 years.  It has transformed their business incredibly giving field technicians and the office administration more power to drive their compliance and revenue.  Mikiah and Curtis Jones sit down with Drew to discuss their journey with the Inspect Point platform and their involvement in the beta program for Service / Work Orders.

Introduction - 4:05

Commercial Fire business - 8:00

Riding through downtimes with ITM / Service - 10:05

Why did you choose Inspect Point - 11:40

Moving out of the paper age - 15:45

Service / Work Order module - 18:50

Involvement in the Beta Process - 20:25

Uploading Material lists - 24:10

Emergency Service calls - 28:05

Where does Commercial Fire Protection go from here- 31:00

3rd Party Compliance software - 33:25

Quick Response Round - 36:05

Commercial Fire Contact Info - 42:30

Discussed in the Episode:
InspectPoint.com
CommercialFire.net

Joe Meyer of MeyerFire LLC sits with Drew. Within the fire protection industry, Joe is well known for his work his engineering work and commitment to the industry. The MeyerFire Toolkit is used by 300+ fire protection companies worldwide. The pair talk about this, sprinkler selection tools, exam prep, and much more. 

2:55 - Background of Joe

5:10 - Going with a digital business model as an engineer

9:15 - Key to blogging

13:40 - MeyerFire tools

17:15 - Sprinkler selection tool

24:00 - Exam Prep

35:35 - BIM / Rivit

40:15 - Quick Response Round  

Discussed in the Episode:
MeyerFire.com
CodeCalls.org

2:40 - Background of Andy

7:25 - Fire Vision

11:50 - QuakeTech

16:30 - How does the Augmented Reality work

19:40 - How the cloud is helping Augmented Reality

20:40 - Cities being 3D mapped

22:25 - Augmented Reality devices

24:35 - Remote Inspections - NFPA 915

28:20 - Future of fire detection

32:40 - PFAS - Foam Fire Fighting Protection

39:45 - Quick Response Round
 

Discussed in the Episode:
firesolutionsgroup.com

arfirevision.com

https://www.qwake.tech/

[email protected]

Inspect Point Webinar- Optimize your Business Practices (March 31st 11AM)

John Mackey

[email protected]

mackeygroupllc.com

FULL TRANSCRIPT

Drew Slocum: (00:08):

This is episode 20 of the Fire Protection Podcast, powered by Inspect Point. Today, my guest is John Mackey. John is the owner of the Mackey Group, l l c. It's a fire protection consulting business. Um, I actually had John on about a year ago. Uh, he was on the second podcast and went really well. A lot of listens to that. Um, John started his consulting business, uh, pretty recently. Uh, formally he was with the Hiller Group, um, head of their digital, uh, and just different technologies for the Hiller group. He's, he's done a lot to improve different businesses out there, uh, heavily involved in some mergers, mergers and acquisitions as well. So, uh, John's new role is, is looking at different fire protection companies, uh, both big and small, and trying to get their, you know, day-to-day operations, their business plans in line. Um, so it's just kind of a, it's a good topic to talk about with all the, the crazy pandemic talks out there, the looming recession if it's, if it's not already here.

(01:11)
So making sure your fire protection business is up to snuff with reoccurring revenue. Um, I think that him and I thought it was a, it is a great opportunity to really improve your business operations to when we come out the other side of this to really be rolling. So, uh, we got talking about that. And, you know, this podcast is really gonna coincide with, uh, a webinar we have in spec points, hosting a, a live webinar tomorrow, March 31st at 11:00 AM with our VP of Customer Success, uh, Jennifer Doyle, who's heavily and entrenched in a lot of day-to-day operations for different contractors. So she's gonna have a lot of tips and tricks out there to, to help improve your businesses. I will make sure to add the link in the podcast notes, as well as this post on social media. So, uh, make sure to subscribe and please enjoy. All right, we go. Um, thanks John for, uh, joining me. It's been about, uh, was it, it's been, been almost a year now since I put the first one out there, and thank you. Were that first one. So it's, uh, one year anniversary. We'll do it, we'll do, do it a little early at least.

John Mackey: (02:24):

Uh, hey, I appreciate you always, uh, look forward to opportunity to talk to you and share perspectives of, uh, what we're both seeing in the industry and, and, um, just offer my, uh, my insight for the listeners and, and, um, help out where I can.

Drew Slocum: (02:38):

Yeah, no, thanks. Uh, John, John was out about, uh, about a year ago. He was with the, the Hiller group at the time. He, he recently, uh, it's kind of out in his own venture now, the Mackey group. And I, I guess what is, I guess, tell the listeners what, what you're up to and kind of what your vision is.

John Mackey: (02:56):

Yeah, so, thank you. The, uh, yeah, the objective of the Mackey Group is to, um, really help investors understand the fire protection space. Um, what we see going on right now is, um, a lot of PE firms and investors coming in that don't necessarily understand our market. And, uh, what I'm concerned about is, as they go through their buying cycles, is, um, I wanna make sure that we've got good sustainable processes and practices in place with regard to how, how we acquire, how we integrate those companies, which I think is vitally important. And then, number three, how do we operate 'em with the use of software and technology? Because I wanna make sure that it maintains the structure, um, of our channels. Um, our industry has been built around those channels, and, um, we need to make sure that, um, the processes themselves are, are solid and, and, uh, sustainable, uh, so that, uh, the performance of our contractor base, uh, continue to operate at a high level. So that's the objective of the Mackey group and, and, uh, making sure that, uh, you know, uh, all the parties, um, really understand what it takes to, uh, to do this. Right.

Drew Slocum: (04:07):

Yeah,

John Mackey: (04:08):

No, so far so good. Got a contract in place and, and, um, helping my first client down that pass. And, uh, we'll see where this thing goes.

Drew Slocum: (04:16):

Yeah. Well, uh, I know the last five to maybe even seven years now, it's been, uh, you know, the, the industry's kind of contracting a little bit on the con on the fire protection contracting side, and there's acquisition out there. There's still a lot of new companies. I see 'em every day. But, um, what, let's get right to it. What happens moving forward from here? You know, with all the , I know we haven't talked, we'll get right into it. There's a lot of craziness happening, and I think there's a lot of stuff in flux, but there's potential opportunity out there too. So

John Mackey: (04:54):

I completely agree. I think, you know, it, it is, you know, timing's never perfect, right? I think that, you know, personally, as you go through the process to, uh, to leave a, um, a good company like Hiller and, uh, try to venture out on your own, um, there's never a perfect time to do it. There's a good time, but no one had a crystal ball to, to see that, uh, COVID 19 was gonna come to the US with such a, um, a powerful impact. And, um, you know, so that's part of the learning process. I think we're all learning on how to deal with that. Um, but, uh, it is what it is. And, um, we're gonna get through it just like everybody else. Uh, we're gonna learn, um, in my case, I'm helping my client really understand, um, the resources available to, to get through this, uh, with regard to, you know, what is the Fire Suppression Systems Association, say, uh, what is N F B A saying, uh, what are we hearing from, uh, local authorities? And, uh, just helping to, to navigate, um, that information. As you know, it is changing minute by minute in every market we're in. Um, you've got, you know, the epicenter right now, or, you know, this week or today is in New York City. Um, but then you've got impacts in California and Michigan and Pennsylvania and, um, you know, other parts of the country. And, and I think it's gonna continue to ebb and flow.

Drew Slocum: (06:20):

Yeah, I saw Louisiana had a big, big spike yesterday. I've been, I've been tracking, uh, you know, I don't know if I should be tracking stats daily, but I, I am. And, um, I've had to keep on top of it for New York City safe cuz of the, the New York Fire Sprinkler Contractors Association trying to, trying to help out down there. But, you know, governor Cuomo's gotta quite the task he's up against. So

John Mackey: (06:43):

He, he really does, I think most states do you know, again, there's, is there a rhyme or reason why, you know, uh, new Orleans has been hit so hard? I think some people are speculating that it has to deal with Mardi Gras, which just happened a month ago. Um, you know, so obviously I'm, it's gonna have some influence on it, um, in New York because the, the concentration of, uh, people, right? And in such a small, you know, relatively unquote small space. So, um, it's, um, it surely is a challenging time. Um, is this the right time to start a business? I don't know. Um, but on the positive side, I do think that there's plenty of opportunity out there. One, how do you help companies na nav navigate through the market right now? Uh, and then two, um, if you are an investor looking to, uh, to, you know, buy in this space, what does that look like? Because I do think that there are, uh, currently a number of good opportunities to, uh, to buy. And then secondly is that as we do come out of this, uh, there's gonna be even more opportunities, uh, to buy the right companies, uh, going forward.

Drew Slocum: (07:47):

Yeah, I've actually gotten a, a, a few calls on these random people in the industry saying, Hey, uh, you know, when we come out of this, if, if anybody's looking to get out, uh, I've been , I've been hedging, I've got some cash, you know, ready to go. So I think you're right there. Think there's going, you know, I don't think it's, it might, I think new construction is definitely gonna take a, a pretty big hit. Um, I, I talked to my brother-in-law today. He's been, he files a lot of the markets and the, uh, unemployment number that came out today was three point. It was crazy. 3.3 million or something. Um, more than doubled at what they projected. And, uh, a lot of that he said, was obviously the service industry, but some of it, um, a big chunk of it was, um, real estate, commercial real estate and warehousing. So if that's taken a hit, I don't know, that's, that's essentially new construction, right? I

John Mackey: (08:45):

Don't know it, yeah, again, I think it's, it's in pockets, right? Um, and, um, I think that, uh, yeah, the construction market is taking a hit right now. I, and you know, I think we're gonna get into it when we talk about what this means for fire protection contractors, but when you look on, um, the overall construction market is that, you know, essential work, um, in our, in our cities. Yep. And, um, most of the states have come back and said, that is not, and we're gonna, you know, ask that those job sites shut down. Um, so, which is impacting us as a, as an industry.

Drew Slocum: (09:18):

Oh, yeah. So yeah, Boston, uh, just read an article today, and it obviously could change, but Boston's gonna make it indefinite. It was supposed to. Maybe they put a two week stop to construction and we're one of the, one of the first cities, but they're gonna keep that going, which is, uh, you know, it's, I talked to a bunch of companies up there, their new construction stop, but their inspection and service has continued it. It's tough to get into some of the, the buildings they say, but, uh, I know N F P A, like you said before, and, and some of the other associations put out, um, actually put out some pretty good bulletins for the industry. And you've, if, if you're on social media, um, they're all over the place, but N FPA put out a good one, and they actually have a good landing page that I'll, I'll, I'll put it in the podcast notes for this when I post it. But, um, it's a good, if you're, if you're going into an inspection, going into the service, uh, it essentially says that fire protection's essential and, uh, tries to help out AHJs as well, uh, determine that too. So, yeah,

John Mackey: (10:25):

I think in, in today's climate, we need that clarity, uh, because, you know, you look at, uh, the information coming from fire chiefs and fire marshals, there was a posting today on LinkedIn, um, that reminded the readers to say, listen, you know, year to date there's 630 fires in the United States just in the last three months. Wow. Right On pace for 2,500. And that's just in the residential market.

Drew Slocum: (10:49):

Yep.

John Mackey: (10:50):

Right. So it highlights the need, uh, for us to continue to test and inspect and maintain these systems. Yep. Uh, residential or commercial, uh, cuz fires still occur. And so, uh, you know, I think that, you know, FSSA and n FBA and, and other associations, getting that information out is vitally important to one, help our industry navigate this, and then two, ultimately help our customers through it. Um, because the customers are dealing with a lot of different issues. You know, um, who's, who's in their facility, if it's still open, um, if it's not physically open, but they still have a facility engineer or, or maybe, you know, core employees in the building, you know, what needs to be maintained. Does that fire sprinkler system need to be inspected? Um, and the, the code says yes. Yep. Right. So, you know, let's, let's get in there and take care of it right now.

Drew Slocum: (11:40):

Um, yeah. Yeah. There's nobody in there. I, I, I might have mentioned this the other day on the other podcast, but there was a, uh, you know, we talked to somebody in Vegas the other day that does all the casinos fire alarm wise, or does a lot of them. And, um, you know, they're shut down for 30 days and he's like, my business is booming right now because they wanna get me in there. They don't like me doing tests anyway, so this is perfect time. Um, you know, so I think there are some, there's some pockets, like you said, that this, it will then fire protection will might even increase in some cases. So

John Mackey: (12:17):

I agree. You know, I think that, uh, I, I talked to one contractor yesterday that says they're pro, they're operating at about 80% capacity right now. Um, all service, all their installation work has stopped, but, uh, their service work is keeping their, um, their organization busy. Not at a hundred percent obviously what you wanna be, but, right. Uh, I'll take it. I'll take 80% in this market right now.

Drew Slocum: (12:39):

Yeah, right. . Yeah. Right. That's pretty good.

John Mackey: (12:44):

But then there's, there's a caveat to that. They're also saying they're looking at it week to week. Sure. Right. Because that will continue to change mm-hmm. , um, in fact, to my earlier point that, you know, this, this issue continues to, you know, change minute to minute.

Drew Slocum: (12:57):

So you talked to, you talked to a lot of contractors, obviously, probably even more now, because you're, you're in a more of a consulting role, um, around the us. Are, are, is everybody doing remote work or are they, obviously you have techs in the field and construction that that continues, but are there operations and, and all that? Do they, are they still in the offices or are they remote working, or is it all over the place?

John Mackey: (13:22):

It depends. Um, I think first and foremost, the companies have made the commitments to software and technology over the last, um, three to five years Yep. Are able to work remotely. And, um, I think those that have done that, um, already had that skillset to be able to understand how do you schedule, how do you let your dispatcher work from, you know, outside the office and schedule technicians. Um, so the, the resources are in place, the business processes are understood. Um, I think that today they're learning more and more about it, but, um, those companies that made that investment, um, over the last three to five years are, are really able to take advantage of the ability to work remote. Yeah. And, um, it's, I think those companies are the ones that are gonna continue to, uh, to work through this. Right? Sure. What the CDC say, you know, your technician comes, you know, to a customer's place, you know, they have to have a mask, they have to have probably latex gloves, they have to maintain distance. Right. Um, you know, minimize any personal interaction, uh, and go do the work. Well with technology today, if the technician's working that inspection on his tablet, his or her tablet, then, you know, they're able to, um, send that, you know, that completely form to the customer electronically.

Drew Slocum: (14:36):

Right.

John Mackey: (14:37):

And, um, and, and everyone works or everyone's safe in that environment. Uh, so I think that, uh, um, most companies, if they have the ability to work remote, they're doing it. Um, if they can't and have to have fit people physically in the office, I've heard stories that, um, instead of putting a person in every cubicle that's a person in every other cubicle, instead of putting two technicians in a truck, it's one technician in that truck. Right. Um, you know, it's, uh, just being, doing what you can to be creative to, uh, uh, to get, uh, to get the work done.

Drew Slocum: (15:11):

Yeah. You're, you're right about those, those companies with the, then the software side and, and it'll probably even push cloud computing even. Like, it's already been on a huge increase in the last five, 10 years anyway. So, I mean, if, if you're on a cloud software, whether it's QuickBooks, Gmail, office 365, you know, our, our platform and some of the others, you know, if you have all your office staff essentially could work from home or wherever, um, and then your techs would be in the field. So, uh, yeah. It'd be, it's gonna be interesting to see what happens coming out of this. I think there's, you know, we're putting out a bunch of webinars to, to try to help, uh, I think we just sent one out last night. We're doing a, a live webinar to, to try to help different, not even our customers, just the industry in general to understand what's, what's happening. And if, if there are some improvements out there, uh, might as well take some time while, while we have a little, uh, my team doesn't like calling it downtime because they, they talk about, they think it's my, our software going down. I'm like, our software's not going down. It's, you know, personal downtime, .

(16:22)
So it was a joke on last night's call.

John Mackey: (16:26):

, you know, it's, uh, every, everything has its own context. Right. Um, but I, I do think that, you know, we are gonna learn a lot about how we work, um, and I don't care what industry it's in. I mean, you know, specific to fire though, I, you know, can you make an argument, um, that supports, you know, do I need to have my entire staff in my building every day of the week? And I think that, you know, because of, you know, the situation with Covid 19, we're learning that you don't necessarily have to be in the office all the time.

Drew Slocum: (17:01):

No. Right.

John Mackey: (17:02):

Create that flexibility. Um, and I even think that, you know, the, the, the younger workforce, you know, um, millennials and those that are coming in behind them, you know, are used to being able to, to work, you know, wherever they may be, you know, at home, you know, in a coffee shop, you know, in a library, um, because we're able to connect through technology Yeah. Through the tablet, through the internet, off a phone, whatever it might be. And I think that's just gonna continue to accelerate, you know, how we get work done. And, um, you know, I think hopefully we become more efficient through it.

Drew Slocum: (17:38):

I even think, like, even the design side, like cad, I mean, caddy needed a powerful, powerful machine before. I think a lot of that you can run from a laptop now. And, um, I don't know how many, like Auto, auto, spring, spring, CAD, and Hydro cad, I mean, are they, I think some of 'em might, may even be cloud based at this point. I don't know if any of them are, but, um, why can't it be, I mean, you're right, a lot of designs done virtual anyway.

John Mackey: (18:06):

Exactly. I it's just tried and true. Right. So, um, I was talking to one of my neighbors, uh, the other night as I was walking through the neighborhood. Uh, he's an engineer. Uh, he had a bid that's due today. And, um, he, he's like, I gotta go in the office and go get it and, you know, so I can print it off and see it . And I said, do you really need to, do you really need to do that? And he goes, well, that's, that's how I get my work done. I said, yeah, don't you trust your technology, your technology. Right. You could see the PDF and you can see the d the drawing, then I need to touch it. Right. So, you know, he drove into his office and, and, um, you know, printed it off and then took it to FedEx to, to ship it

Drew Slocum: (18:47):

. Gosh.

John Mackey: (18:48):

Right. But I think that again, there's, you know, this is gonna teach us a different way. Oh yeah. Right. It's behavior. Right. And, and, you know, you just gotta expose yourself to that behavior. And I think the human reaction, or human human reaction, human nature, is that we follow that path of least resistance. Right. Right. And whatever has been normal for us over time prior to, you know, covid is, you know, that's our normal. And so now this is changing how we have to do that. And so, you know, in my case, I've been, you know, saying really close to home for the last two weeks. And so, um, I'm getting better and better and more efficient every day with how I'm getting my work done, how I'm, how I'm talking to people, more video calls and, you know, a lot more, you know, chatting through, you know, Microsoft teams and some other platforms, um, and not necessarily picking up the phone because everyone's busy. Yep. Um, and or, you know, leaving my house to go print something off and ship it. Right. Right. I can send it electronically. So let's just do that.

Drew Slocum: (19:48):

Yeah. It's

John Mackey: (19:50):

Funny. I, but it's new behaviors, new behaviors for all of us. And we, I think this is creating an environment where we're gonna learn how to do it differently.

Drew Slocum: (19:55):

Yeah. I think we will. I mean, uh, I talked to an association yesterday that's, that's trying to, you know, just get, uh, virtual, you know, GoToMeeting, zoom, Microsoft team set up one of those platforms. And, uh, they made the comment that I think a lot of any business is gonna realize, do they really need brick and mortar store or brick and mortar office space? So, you know, a lot of that's gonna potentially, I don't know, maybe go by the wayside and people will work more remotely or work in, uh, you know, we work in, um, we work, we work in, we work style spaces and, you know, coworking spaces where you don't really need, uh, an office and, uh, you can kind of bounce around. Sales guys a lot of, a lot of times do that anyway. But, um, yeah, it's gonna be interesting where, where we come out of this. So

John Mackey: (20:48):

Agree, agree.

Drew Slocum: (20:51):

Well, well, I had another comment from, I, I've been talking to a lot of people cuz that's, you know, I wanna, I want to get the feel for the market out there. Um, one said, I, it's the healthiest they've been in and in a few years, because they're at home, they're out now, they're not out entertaining clients and they get a mini workout in, you know, halfway through the day. So I was like, all right, gotta take the positives when you can. Right. Yeah.

John Mackey: (21:16):

little benefit there, I guess. Yeah.

Drew Slocum: (21:22):

Um, so what, I guess, what, what is your, uh, what is your strategy? Has your strategy changed with, uh, giving advice a little bit? Um, and giving consultation advice to different, to different clients?

John Mackey: (21:37):

Yeah, I think it gets very, uh, specific. Um, because we're all trying to learn, trying to understand, you know, what, you know, sharing ideas and best practices and, you know, and what we're hearing from others. Uh, so those are the conversations I've been having over the last couple weeks. Um, you know, it's not about the longer term perspective to say, you know, Hey, we want to, you know, acquire company A, B, and C and, you know, help us, you know, with an introduction or whatever it might be. Um, those introductions just aren't gonna happen. You're not gonna be able to, right. Obviously we can't go physically see people, so, right. You know, and, and those, those business owners are focusing on what they have right in front of 'em right now. And I completely, completely understand why we're focusing where they need to. Um, so yeah, the, the, uh, the objective is still the same over time. Um, the timeline itself is just getting extended a little bit just because of, uh, everything else. You know, everyone's focus right now needs to be in on covid 19. And, um, those are the conversations that I'm having as it relates to, you know, how do we do this and how do we do that?

Drew Slocum: (22:43):

Yeah. No, I think, I think, you know, there's gonna be, obviously there's a lot of investment money out there, and since a lot of it's gonna be leaving the stock market soon, I think there is some potential for, you know, fire protection companies that have good reoccurring revenue, uh, models that, you know, it's gonna be a good place for some in invest investment money, investor money, um, to get it out of the stock market for six months to a year. Cause I think it's gonna be rocky for at least that time.

John Mackey: (23:14):

I heard, um, someone said one, some, one of the major bankers said, uh, two nights ago, uh, it's gonna be a two year window for the markets to get back to where they're at. Right. So put that in perspective, right. And then, um, look at what's going on with the bond market and, and quantitative easing and, um, that's typically where the hedge funds played. Right. And so now that the bond market's headed negative.

Drew Slocum: (23:39):

Yep.

John Mackey: (23:39):

So, uh, so you've got hedge fund cash sitting out there and going into this, this, this, uh, covid situation. There was 1.2 trillion at play in the private equity

Drew Slocum: (23:51):

Market. Wow.

John Mackey: (23:53):

Right. So, and now to your point, and I, I agree with you, I think that you're gonna see more money move to private equity. Yep. Uh, staying away if staying away from the banks. Yep. Um, in its traditional context, moving away from the stock market because of the volatility there and the longer term plays, or the big time plays in, in, um, hedge funds, um, the market's not there to support it. So, um, I think that you're gonna see more and more, uh, activity in the PE space. Um, it's gonna impact a lot of verticals, um, healthcare, uh, services. Mm-hmm. , um, you know, construction, um, what, what are the airlines? I heard, you know, one of the airlines is owned by a PE firm. Wow. Uh, never, never didn't know that in front end. But all that said, that also does have an impact on, on fire because the, the consolidation over the last, you know, five, six years is, uh, you know, primarily backed by PE Yep. And, um, it's just gonna put more, more money at play.

Drew Slocum: (24:52):

Yeah. Right.

John Mackey: (24:54):

So, and, and along those same lines, unfortunately for what's going on right now with the market, um, those companies that, you know, were, were ripe to sell six months ago, as they ride this market, their, their, their profits are gonna be hit. Right. They're, they're, you know, the value on paper, uh, and the multiple that a PE firm will pay today is gonna be less Oh, yeah. Than what they would've paid six months ago, just because the, the numbers, you know, or so are telling a different story.

Drew Slocum: (25:22):

Yeah. They're not, they're not there. Right. Um, right. Yeah. Yeah. It was in interesting, we were both at that, uh, um, that, uh, the F ss a, uh, trade show, which was, which was great and luck, luckily they got it in right before all this stuff happened, uh, down in Florida. But the, the one keynote speaker, uh, was it Jonathan? I forgot his name, I had it up here a second ago. ,

John Mackey: (25:49):

Jonathan Slain.

Drew Slocum: (25:50):

Jonathan Slain.

John Mackey: (25:52):

Um, and

Drew Slocum: (25:53):

Yeah, so he has a book, rock the Recession, um, and gave a whole keynote speech about recession. I don't say recession proofing your company to me, just make sure you're ready for a recession. And literally two weeks later, we're in this situation. It's kind of weird. I,

John Mackey: (26:13):

It, it it's crazy timing. Right. I mean, his, his whole message was, you know, prepare. Right. And he took you through his model on, on all the, you know, key things to think about, um, planning, uh, gearing up for it, putting things in motion, uh, being able to hit the brakes. We need to hit the brakes and well, here we are. . Yeah. Uh, and, uh, you know, I think it still highlights the number of the practices that, uh, a lot of successful companies have done over the last, you know, five years, especially since, you know, oh 8, 0 9, I think we learned this through the last great recession. Mm-hmm. was how do you, how do you navigate through this? And one is, you know, moving off that long-term, um, low margin, when we say low term, long-term, long timeline, low margin install work, which is still very important.

(26:58)
And a lot of our, our contractors in our market do it. Um, and moving more of your portfolio over to that recurring, you know, year over year service that test, inspect, maintain market is a very strong lucrative market. Uh, essentially creating an annuity for your business every year. Yep. Uh, to generate cash at a much higher margin. Right. And so, um, that's what the, the rock the recession approach was all about to say, you know, what are you doing, uh, to improve operational efficiency? Um, what are you doing to develop those new markets, i e service or going deep into the some key broker markets that are right in your, um, uh, local backyard, um, and then being able to identify other assets, other, other services that you wanna bolt onto to your, uh, existing business to add more value for your customers. Yep. Right.

(27:52)
And I think that, you know, that's the play. Uh, and if you're able to execute across those, then, uh, you're positioned to, uh, to deal with the next recession. And of course, in his presentation, he gave some examples of some companies able, able to do it and, you know, sell it, you know? Yeah. 70 times. Yeah. That's multiple, not multiple 70 times with the original investments and Right. Um, you know, really, you know, you know, generate some rain. So, um, I think that, uh, the timing was perfect. Unfortunately, we didn't, the, the timing of the presentation was perfect. The, the amount of time that people had to get ready for this was, uh, uh, yeah. Cuz it's right here, right in front of us right

Drew Slocum: (28:34):

Now. Well, we, you know, and spec point see a big influx in, in, uh, people interested in the last two weeks. I don't know, I think it's a little that people are a little bit, you know, it's maybe those shelter in place states, and it seems to be where it is, but, uh, a lot of it's, they, some of those companies understand that, all right, install's gonna get hit. Let's, let's convert over and let's make some efficiencies with the platform. So it's been, you know, I don't wanna say it's been great for us, but it's, you, you can see kind of the interest coming back around a little bit just through what, what's happened. So

John Mackey: (29:13):

It's a proven model. Yeah. I mean, you know, you guys have a great platform. There's other, uh, really good platforms out there as well that, you know, it's about, you know, one, how do you drive that operational efficiency in the office? Right. And Excel spreads. You can't manage your service schedule off an Excel spreadsheet and Google Calendar or Outlook calendar. Um, you have to be able to, one, make it systematic mm-hmm. so that you can see the recurring services on a, on a month to month, week to week basis. And then the ability to arm the technician, um, with the tools and resources to get the work done more efficiently in the field. Right. Generate that repair, generate that, excuse me, identify that deficiency, generate the repair quote and, and get back out there and take care of it. Uh, one to drive compliance to help the customer keep their doors open and run their business.

(30:07)
Um, and then, you know, the last piece of it is invoicing. You know, I think it's very important, especially in this market today, um, using the technology you have in front of you to be able to invoice preferably every day. Oh, yeah. Um, at the end of the business day. Um, I think realistically most businesses are, are, are invoicing weekly. Um, but the technology allows you to do it. So let's maximize your cash flow and, and, and, and use those, you know, use that time to do it, uh, to, uh, to truly, uh, become efficient with how you get the work done.

Drew Slocum: (30:40):

Are they really, I didn't know that. Is it mostly weekly?

John Mackey: (30:45):

I think so. I think that, uh, we all, we all talk about trying to, to get that invoice out. Right. Um, but I think it's just, there's limited resources and I think the work itself, um, um, office to office Sure. We get distracted, uh, customer calls and they of course take first priority.

Drew Slocum: (31:03):

Right.

John Mackey: (31:04):

Um, and I think one of the processes that kind of falls to the wayside is

Drew Slocum: (31:08):

The building. Is the invoicing. Yeah. The, the workflow of all the different steps between, you know, doing the work and actually sending it out.

John Mackey: (31:16):

Yep. Yeah. Interesting. But again, I think it highlights again, how do you automate, not shouldn, you automate that, but how do you, how do you make it systematic? So rather than printing off that invoice and stick it in an envelope and you know, mail it out, you know how the ability to, uh, email, um, your customers an invoice, how about the fact that you used to go to automatic billing? Right. So a credit card is attached to the, the account so that at the time of invoice, boom, it's automatic, you know, paid for off a credit card

Drew Slocum: (31:43):

Yeah. Right away.

John Mackey: (31:44):

Oh, I know. Or ACH transfers. I mean, let's think of how you can continue to just become better and better. Imagine that cash flow. Yeah. Um, and make it easier for the customer. Um, I think, you know, you and I have talked about some other concepts of programs that, that ideas that we've, we've shared about, you know, technology. But, you know, at the end of the day, uh, um, easy to use, easy to buy, easy to pay

Drew Slocum: (32:11):

. Yeah. Yeah. Right.

John Mackey: (32:12):

Yeah. So, you know, if you're, you're the contractor, what, what, what technology do you have in place that makes it easy for your customers to follow those three steps?

Drew Slocum: (32:23):

Yep. No, it, it, it's, uh, I, you know, we do, I I just enacted a new piece of salt. We, you know, coming into the business, I, you know, I, you know, the basic programs out there, obviously email and, you know, the Google programs, but we utilize so many different pieces of software to make it easier. And I just, uh, I just introduced another one for proposals. Like, you know, we have one in our platform, but what, what do I use for my customers before I would send out a pdf? Now it's an interactive dynamic, uh, uh, proposal where the, the customer can work through it, they can put in their credit card and boom, they're off and running like the next day, essentially with our platform. So it's, there's a lot of stuff out there. And, um, yeah, it's gonna continue to, I I think it's gonna continue to keep happening cuz with this whole situation, there'll be some new stuff out there.

John Mackey: (33:20):

I agree. I agree.

Drew Slocum: (33:24):

Um, have you uh, talked to Dave Brown recently?

John Mackey: (33:30):

I have not. He is one of the guys I want to call in the next, uh, next couple times. He

Drew Slocum: (33:34):

Is, he is slammed. I'm gonna give him a plug here cuz he, he's helped us out a lot. He is slammed because everybody's trying to go remote and, you know, a lot of 'em are last minute and they have to do this. And I, it it's kind of, it's kind of wild. He's, he's, uh, he's actually helped a couple of my customers out in the last week to, to even just cut some fat out of their operate operation Bill. Um, so he is able to hook a, a, a bunch of 'em up with, you know, better plans and, and everybody's gotta tighten up these days. So he's, uh, he's a great guy.

John Mackey: (34:11):

Dave. Dave is great. Um, you know, truly love, uh, you know, his, his story, um, and what Novo Solutions brings to the table for the industry, um, previous life, um, we were a strong advocate of, of Dave and his company. Um, you know, they managed, um, all the, uh, field technology for, for Hiller and, uh, just did a great, great job and, and, and first his, his focus on customers, um, and making sure that, um, they're getting the right tools and resources they need, but then the services that his company provides with regard to, you know, not only fire, but just the broader service space. Sure. And, um, helping companies manage their, their mobile spend and, and, um, the bills and everything associated with it. Uh, um, he's really built a nice organization and, and, uh, uh, love to see the journey, uh, he's on and, and, uh, be a part of it and help 'em where, where it

Drew Slocum: (35:11):

Can Yeah. No, it's, uh, he's, he's been giving us updates on just on just devices themselves. Like, you know, apple, apple's in a little, you know, we're tied to, tied to Apple pretty good. And, you know, he's like, Hey, iPhones are fine. Which we we're coming out with a new iPhone app here, uh, you know, kind of combined with our service application, but iPads, it's like a two, three week. He, he's like, you can't find any right now because everybody's going remote. Same thing with Wow. Chromebooks, same thing with a lot of laptops. Like I bet if you go to Best Buy right now, , they're gonna be, they're gonna be picked over. So

John Mackey: (35:54):

Kinda wild a sign of the times. I mean, I think again, it's uh, it is, it surely is wild, but it, uh, um, again, highlights the importance of, you know, being prepared for, um, marketing conditions that change in this case. You know, how do you allow, you know, create an environment for your technicians and your employees to work remote. And, uh, it's a different set of technology that allows to do it.

Drew Slocum: (36:18):

So a little lighter to know. Do you have, uh, are you stocked up on toilet paper,

John Mackey: (36:22):

? Uh, we are. So, uh, funny story. Uh, so two weeks ago, um, my son and, and, um, uh, his friends were supposed to go on spring break, of course, that got canceled. Uh, he goes to school up in northern Alabama. And so, um, him and, um, a couple of his friends ended up coming down to, uh, our place and we live in lower Alabama. And, um, one of his friends, uh, for staying with us for three days, four days, brought a, uh, uh, four pack or six pack of, uh, toilet paper, and, uh, , a container of, uh, GermX hand sanitizer as, as a thank you. So,

Drew Slocum: (37:02):

Oh, no way.

John Mackey: (37:03):

Yes. So, uh, uh, very appropriate work very well. But yes, we are, we are think at this point we're, we're set on, uh, on toilet paper. Our college aged kids, um, are, are back at home with us, uh, for the time being. And, uh, so that's been a little bit of adjustment. Um,

Drew Slocum: (37:22):

Yeah, I'm

John Mackey: (37:23):

Sure my wife and I, yeah, my, my wife and I have been empty nesters for, um, almost two years and, you know, living, uh, without kids and, and, and now they're back and they're like, wait, , you know, where's all of our food going? Where's, you know, where's this and where's that? And who left this mess in the room? , uh, you know, it's, uh, rather in this situation, we're glad they're home and, and, um, I see it's been, it's been good. Yeah.

Drew Slocum: (37:51):

Yeah. It's, it's interesting. I talked a lot of, I'm, I'm having to work the same thing. I have two young kids and, um, my wife works as well as I do. So we're having, and I've heard a lot of people in the same boat where whether they're older kids coming back in or the younger kids are that are in school are coming back home and now, you know, we've gotta entertain them. So, you know, there's a lot of stress on the families trying to make sure they're, they're, uh, kids are watched during the daytime, so, you know, we flip-flop different hours. We have to actually meet the night before to see, Hey, I need this, this block and this block. Um, yeah. It's, uh, we're learning as a, as a family even with that, so Oh, yeah.

John Mackey: (38:36):

A lot more coordination, that's for sure. .

Drew Slocum: (38:39):

But, um, anything else you wanna chat about? I know we're, we're kind of getting a little informed. No, I,

John Mackey: (38:48):

Yeah, I, I think we're good. I, I, you know, um, I think we covered a lot of the topics. I think right now everyone's mind is on, on Covid 19 and how to navigate this thing. The challenge is how long does it last? Um, you know, I think some of the optimists are saying, Hey, this thing could be, you know, uh, working its way back to normal by Easter. Um, I think some of the, many of the other states or markets are saying that, you know, hey, this is more, you know, a May 1st, early may thing. And you know, I think the worst case scenario, some people are saying, Hey, this can carry all the way through the summer. Um, I think that's the unknown. And I think that, you know, most business owners today are just trying to figure out, how do I get through this week?

(39:27)
Um, how do I, you know, pay my workforce, uh, for this week? And then, um, you know, how much longer can I, you know, sure. Stretch it out and make sure that they continue to, um, be able to provide for their families, uh, cause they still need food, they still need, you know, to pay the bills, et cetera, et cetera. Pay the mortgage . Yeah. Um, you know, and so, um, right now it's a pretty short term focus and rightfully so until we, we really understand what this new normal looks like and, and, um, um, then we can make longer term plans. But, you know, right now everyone's focused on the, the challenges that we have. And it's crazy. Every state's a little bit different, you know, um, you know, I live in lower Alabama and, you know, Alabama is obviously much more spread out than New York.

(40:13)
Obviously we don't have the population that New York does. Um, but, you know, we've got social distancing in place, the beaches are closed and the restaurants and bars are closed. Um, but they're encouraging people to go out and walk around and, and get fresh air and um, and, and what have you. So, uh, in New York, not necessarily the case. So I think every state's a little bit different in how we do it. Um, that may change in a week when that moves from New York and into, you know, other parts of the country. But Yep. Um, I think that's everyone's focus.

Drew Slocum: (40:43):

Yeah, it is. And it should be, you know, the health, the health, the health is the main focus. People get, you know, bogged down with the economy and all that, but the quicker we get this thing outta here, the quicker, the quicker we get back on track, which I think, we'll, we will have a recession, uh, uh, and potentially greater coming out of this anyway. But there's, like you said, there's a lot of opportunity and hey, there's some, I'm gonna say it again, team, uh, there's some downtime personally for us. So let's, uh, reevaluate our, you know, personally and, and, and business wise as well. There's some things agreed you can, we can do out there. And I've been doing it. Yeah, it sounds like you've been doing it and talking to a lot of people, so

John Mackey: (41:26):

It's an opportunity for all of us to reset, that's for sure.

Drew Slocum: (41:28):

Yeah, definitely. Well, uh, thanks John for, uh, for coming on. Do you wanna, uh, any, any plug? I mean, uh, how do, how, how should we reach you?

John Mackey: (41:39):

Uh, so I think, um, probably the best way my website's still in development so that, that's not up and running yet. That's again, one of the things I'll have done here in the next week and a half. Um, I think email's probably gonna be best, and that's John, j o h [email protected]. Um, and, um, you know, fire off an email and then from there we can, um, move the conversation to phone and, and, uh, I'll help out wherever I can and, um, uh, share ideas and, and, uh, help solve problems.

Drew Slocum: (42:12):

Great. Great. Thanks John. Thanks for coming on. This has been episode 20 of the Fire Protection Podcast, powered by Inspect Point. Wanna, again, thank my guest, John Mackey. It's always great to talk to John. He's got a great perspective on the industry and, um, especially what's, what's happened right now. So, again, a lot of opportunity out there. Um, there's a lot of sad news, obviously, of what's happening both with the economy and the, the health of the country. But, you know, keep your heads up. I think, uh, again, we only can get stronger through this. And, um, yeah, stay tuned. There's gonna be a lot more of this coming. Talk to you soon.

Full Transcript 

Drew Slocum: (00:09):

This is episode 19 of the Fire Protection Podcast, powered by Inspect Point. Today I sit down with Chris Logan of the Fire Sprinkler Podcast, so it's actually brought to you by the Fire Sprinkler Podcast as well. Um, Chris and I did a dual podcast on Friday. Try to make it a little bit fun since we're, we're, we've been stuck in, uh, uh, containment for, uh, uh, the last, uh, week and coming up on two weeks here. So, uh, no new news since Friday. Luckily, um, people continue to stay in businesses, continue to shut down, especially in the Northeast Canada, on the West Coast. And, uh, yeah, a lot of, lot of troublesome times out there, but we'll definitely get through it. Um, we try to, uh, have fun on the podcast as well as, uh, get into some, uh, some tough questions. So anyway, hope you enjoy. Again, it's a, a little informal podcast, and, uh, Chris and I decided to do one together to keep it light. Enjoy. Yeah.

Chris Logan: (01:13):

We'll cross up.

Drew Slocum: (01:14):

Cool. All right. We're off. We are off. So, uh, yeah, let's do a post this thing.

Chris Logan: (01:25):

Yeah. So, Drew, Drew Slocum Inspect Point Fire Protection Podcast, Chris Logan Fire Sprinkler podcast. Uh, we started talking years ago when I started my podcast. And, uh, you know, when, when you launched yours, we kind of got into it together and, you know, you, you reached out to me and said, Hey, I'm gonna be starting one. What do you think? And I said, please do. Because I'm sick of listening to myself in the car. I'm gonna drive to work. Right. How's everything working out for you?

Drew Slocum: (01:52):

Uh, that's great. Um, you, you know, we've got some extra time on our hands these days, so, uh, unfortunately. So, uh, I've got a couple, uh, getting ready to record next week. Um, Inspect Point's, doing really well. I don't, you know, there's a lot of uncertainty out there, obviously, so, uh, I'm sure we'll get into that. But, uh, no, it's going well. This podcast is, it's a fun, it's a fun thing to do, and, uh, I'm glad you got it kicked off. And then , everything was right after, it's been almost a year, I think for, it was last, April was the first episode.

Chris Logan: (02:27):

Yeah, I was gonna say, you're coming up on a year. I'm coming up on two and quarter, something like that. The end of February of 2018 is when I started mine. Yeah. And, uh, fun. Like, uh, never ever would I get the chance to talk to people in the industry that I've gotten the chance to talk to. So it's worked out a lot, you know, it's worked out in my favor a hundred percent. Cause it kinda, it got other people interested in creating content like you. Yeah. Like, I, this, this is exactly what my game plan was, is hopefully I could do it long enough where somebody else would want to do it, and then I would've something to listen to.

Drew Slocum: (03:01):

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. There's a, there's enough, there's a, there's only one, one other that popped up that I know of. It's the Life Safety podcast, so I'll give him a plug. Okay. But, uh, I haven't, I haven't listened to too many of them. Yeah. Um, yeah, Ruben Garcia's done it, it, it's more on the, the passive, passive fire protection, like fire doors. Uh, maybe I should probably listen to the podcast more . But no, it's been fun. I've talked to a lot of people that I really respect in the industry, and, um, you know, there's a lot of people reaching out from, from all over the country, all over the world. It's weird. You see the analytics of the, of the podcast come in and who's listening to it, and the majority of it's North America, Canada, and the us, but then there'll be like, random spots in like New Zealand or Southeast Asia or it, yeah, it's kind of wild.

Chris Logan: (03:55):

It's neat to see. I've got, I've got like a, I've got a decent following of about 30 or 40 people in Australia, like spread across Australia that, that download religiously listen to the podcast, and it's awesome. Like, it's cool. I've hit every, every content now except for Antarctica , which is, uh, I'm just waiting, waiting for somebody down in Antarctica to give me at least one download so that I can stay. I'm on every content so that my buddies, cause I told my buddy, yeah, I'm on every, I'm on every continent. They're like, oh yeah, listen to Antarctica. I'm like,

Drew Slocum: (04:26):

There's gotta be a firefighter or a fire official down there somewhere.

Chris Logan: (04:30):

Yeah. I'm gonna have to link up, go through my contact and see if I have any business cards.

Drew Slocum: (04:36):

That's funny. So let, let, let's get, let's get to it. People don't wanna hear us chat, right? Yeah.

Chris Logan: (04:43):

. It's nice talking to you again. Yes. But yeah, um, you, you reached out to me. You wanted to kind of talk about everything that's going on now. If you are unaware of what's going on now, you've been living under a rock. Um, and, and I think actually it's safe to say that most people out there have been living under a rock just because of the situation that's going on. Nobody's traveling, nobody's going out. And about, um, how are things in, uh, in New York?

Drew Slocum: (05:12):

Well, I'm, I'm in, I'm in Connecticut, so I, uh, I, I'm glad I'm, you know, New York City's. We, we moved to Connecticut about a, a year ago now. Um, lived there for about 11 years, but still staying, uh, quite attached to it because, uh, I'm headed the fire sprinkler, uh, contractors association there. So that is, it's, it's changing by the hour, I feel like. So every day, uh, mayor de Blassio as well as, uh, governor Cuomo, Andrew Cuomo are having just press conferences on what's going on. Um, you know, I gotta stay on top of construction there because they're, they're threatening to shut down all construction. Um, which is, it's kind of crazy if you shut down all construction in the largest city in North America. Right. Um, yeah.

(06:04)
So how does that not just hurt, does it construction, but fire sprinkler, everything? How does that, how does the whole money flow going on with development and all that? Um, fire safety, luckily enough, is an essential, um, it's categorized an essential business, so mm-hmm. , all those workers, construction workers and, um, service and inspection workers are still, are still going at it. But, you know, that could change. And I don't, I don't think, you know, I think service of the buildings with fire protection is gonna stay there. It's just, I think some of the new construction is gonna get hit either way, whether it's a job site shutdown or just funding of the prediction. It's, it's kind of wild

Chris Logan: (06:47):

As a, as a, as a sprinkler contractor as well. That's what I'm waiting for. It's not waiting, like with my fingers crossed, but, uh, you know, materials getting harder and harder to get delivery. Guys don't wanna come out and send out material if there's anybody on site. Um, I'm waiting for being in Canada and being in Ontario. I'm waiting for the Premier to just say, we're doing this provincial shutdown, shutting down all construction. And, um, just like in the States, I'm sure there's been, you know, two or three press conferences a day. And, uh, you know, it's, it's fascinating to watch how they're reacting to something that's never been, it's never been an issue before. This is something that we've never experienced in my lifetime. And I, I mean, pretty young, not to suit my own horn, but, uh, you know, there's never been a situation that's affected literally everybody in the

Drew Slocum: (07:37):

World. In the world. Yeah.

Chris Logan: (07:39):

It's not just a, oh, there's a little bit of a financial crunch in southwestern Ontario or an out west or in the state? No, it is like a, a pandemic. It's a little, it's a worldwide pandemic, and it's, uh, you know, it's, it's, it sucks to see, but it's also, I think it is bringing out a lot of good in people For the most part. For the most part. There are still people that aren't understanding exactly what needs to be, uh, what needs to be done. Um, but I mean, it's a time thing, right? Like it's, it's gonna hit, I think it's gonna hit everybody, and I think it's gonna be bad for a little while. And I, I just hope construction in general is, is able to adapt to the situation.

Drew Slocum: (08:22):

Yeah. You're gonna, I, I think e I think either way it's, it, it's gonna take a hit to the economy. You know, there's a few things, obviously the health risks, that's, that's number one. But, um, right. Uh, personal and, and family and all that. But it, it's gonna, the healthcare systems are gonna be influx for months and maybe, hopefully not years to come, but, um, potentially just influx of how, how things are handled. But, uh, and then the, the economic, which is huge as well, because every, everything, every little thing that gets shut down is just gonna be a ripple effect. So, uh, construction, I think, you know, if we go into a recession or even beyond that, um, deep recession, you know, construction companies are gonna have to adapt. Fire protection companies, fire sprinkler companies. So, um, you know, I'm gonna plug in spec point right now, but we're trying to work on some, you know, now we have some time and people are at home. We're gonna work on some just, just video, um, webinars to try to keep people positive for one. But, hey, while you're indoors, let's, let's focus on your business and see if we can do anything to kind of come out of this a little better. So

Chris Logan: (09:36):

Mm-hmm. , it has, it has given a lot of people the opportunity to, uh, you know, maybe not. It sucks because the cash flow is essentially, you're not gonna feel it now. You're gonna feel it in 30 days or whatever your payment terms are, the contractor, right. If you're payment terms in 10 days or 15 days, or 30 or 60 days for maybe some out there, I hope not. But, you know, people are gonna feel it in 30 days from now when all the invoices for the inspections that were done in the past week get rolled out and the payments don't flow in, that's when everybody's gonna start seeing it. Yeah. And they're starting to know it. Like they're starting to see it now, you're starting to see the layoffs and stuff like that. Um, it's, it's, it's a different animal. Um, I am happy to see that the government has stepped up to offer financial assistance, at least in Canada. I'm sure they're doing it in the states as well. Um, you know, they typically in Canada, when you apply for unemployment insurance, um, there's a two week waiting period where you don't get paid for two weeks and then your money starts. They waived that. So if I'm off, you know, if I decide Monday I'm laid off, uh, I will get paid for that week, the following week, et cetera, et cetera.

Drew Slocum: (10:45):

Oh, nice. That's nice. I, yeah, there's something going on in the states. I, you know, we'll see what happens. I think they're trying to do the best, but a lot of this is unknown too. So there, there maybe have to be multiple stimulus packages or whatever. Uh, I know, uh, I just got alerted that tax day moved, uh, three months out. So that's, that's great for us here in the States, .

Chris Logan: (11:07):

Yeah, that's right. We got, uh, ours, ours as well was just pushed to, we have until June 1st. And, um, uh, as well for renewing license plates and, and, uh, you know, driver's license, health cards, things like that. All renewing, all those just got pushed back to at least June 1st.

Drew Slocum: (11:22):

Wow. Yeah. It's, it's unprecedented man. It, it's, it's weird every day, you know, cuz we've, you know, I've been stuck inside here. I went to the grocery store last night, which was, that was, it was fine. I got enough food, but it, it, it's just a weird, it's a weird feeling being out there with nobody's talking to each other. I don't know. Mm-hmm. , it's, it's odd. So,

Chris Logan: (11:46):

Uh, yeah, so I'm, I live in a small town in Canada, obviously, so it's pretty friendly, pretty friendly country for the most part. Um, people are still, you know, everybody for the most part is keeping that six foot distance,

Drew Slocum: (12:00):

Right?

Chris Logan: (12:01):

Know everybody's still, oh, hey, how's it going? Uh, everybody, you know, every once I'm, I'm a handshake guy, I'll shake anybody's hand, uh, reaches you or says hello to me, Hey, how's it going? Uh, so that was a huge, for a day or two, I'd reach out and then automatically, uh, go back to the like, oh, multi elbow, here we go. Let's, uh, kinda switch gears here. We're not touching anymore. We'll do the elbow bump, but nowadays it's even . How's it going?

Drew Slocum: (12:28):

At least you get eye contact, right? Little wave

Chris Logan: (12:32):

. Yeah, that's, hi, how you doing today? ?

Drew Slocum: (12:36):

But yeah, it's, uh, yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. No, no, you go. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna open up a beer, Chris. Cause I, I had one sitting here. Yep.

Chris Logan: (12:47):

Oh wow. What a nice, what a nice, I

Drew Slocum: (12:49):

Know, right? I got my lobster and Eric ett, you know, hometown. Wow. I open this up. So, and I, circumstances I have as well, so, well,

Chris Logan: (13:01):

Goodness. That's nice. Actually, you know what, um, last Thursday was a, uh, career fair in industry dinner at Seneca College in Toronto. Mm-hmm. . And I fi I finally, after a year and a half, got rid of my last cozy,

Drew Slocum: (13:16):

Ah,

Chris Logan: (13:18):

I, I ordered, I think I ordered 1500 of them. Uh, maybe it wasn't a year and a half, it was probably eight months. But, uh, between N FSA was what I ordered them for. I ordered 1500 for N fsa and then I brought to N F D A and just different small trade shows in the area. And I finally got rid of my last 150 I had left. And I was so pumped to just finally not have a thousand ies, or not cozies, but, um, uh, coasters in my basement. So in case anybody out there right now is going to my website to buy some,

Drew Slocum: (13:53):

Well, I, I've got some over here in my office. I've got about 20 so I can put 'em on eBay for you.

Chris Logan: (13:59):

You know what, the price just went up collector's items.

Drew Slocum: (14:02):

So how are you seeing up, you know, I haven't talked to a lot of Canadian companies. You know, I've been, we've been trying to reach out to all of our customers contractor, you know, fire sprinkler and beyond. But, um, how is, I mean, has, has construction stopped? Is inspection testing kind of going or are people still waiting?

Chris Logan: (14:21):

You know, so for, for right now, large contract is still on the go. Us as a, as a small family owned and operated co uh, company, we're taking it very serious as far as, you know, maintaining distances. If we have an inspection that's not, you know, if it's a, if it's an annual inspection, as long as we're within three months of nfpa, we'll try to push it back for three months. We're not going into buildings that we don't have to. We've pushed all, um, non-essential work at nursing homes and care facilities shut down. Um, right. Essentially, if we don't in a building, we're not just gonna, we're not just gonna maintain our existing schedule. Um, we service a lot of chemical refineries here in Sarnia. Um, we've told them, you know, it's not you, me not going into your plant. Right. But most of the refineries have shut down operations as well to a skeleton who's not a central personnel are working from home. Right. So it's, everybody's been meeting us with No, that's exactly what we want you to do.

Drew Slocum: (15:24):

That's

Chris Logan: (15:25):

Good. I mean, large contract, it's large contract is different because then you get into the situation where if I simply refuse to show up to a job site, I'm technically in breach of contract. And that's something that I haven't heard any of the government officials talking about yet, um, is, you know, I have a contract to provide a service. If I don't provide that service without any reason other than, you know, me saying, no, it's no good. Am I in breaching contract?

Drew Slocum: (15:52):

Right.

Chris Logan: (15:53):

So

Drew Slocum: (15:54):

The other thing you have to think about, and I, I guess I'm not a contractor, but I, you know, talk to 'em all the time and represent them. But, um, what, what happens, you know, the economy's gonna take a hit either way here. Um, yep. Hey, Chris, your, your, uh, brightness just went up, so

Chris Logan: (16:14):

Yeah, I saw that. She just, I dunno what happened.

Drew Slocum: (16:17):

You're good. Um, what happens if the, you know, because money flows down from the investors to the developer, to the general contractor or cm, whatever that is, then down to the sub. So say you send your guys the last couple weeks, if, if that goes under, are you even gonna get paid for that? Like there's a huge risk there. I would, I would feel too, I don't know.

Chris Logan: (16:42):

So the Ontario, like the, sorry, Trudeau the prime minister of Canada, uh, people have a love hate relationship with him. He's either very loved or absolutely hated. Um, I dunno if, uh, the guy in the States has a similar kinda relationship with his people, , um, people either love him or hate

Drew Slocum: (17:01):

Him, wouldn't want his job tell you that much.

Chris Logan: (17:04):

Yeah, I'll say that.

Drew Slocum: (17:05):

Especially right now.

Chris Logan: (17:07):

Uh, you know what, there's a lot of people on social media that think they can do his job substantially better. Uh, but I digress. Um, they, they have announced a lot of assistance for small businesses, large businesses, et cetera, et cetera. The, the Canadian government has, has set aside 83 billion in financial assistance specifically for Covid-19. Um, so that, those kind of things are good to see. I haven't dug too, too much into how I get my hands on 83 billion yet. Right. Um, but it is something, you know, as a company we've been looking at, uh, just trying to figure it out. Just trying to keep everybody going as long as possible as well as keeping everybody safe. Uh, I'm not gonna force my employees if they would, if they don't feel safe at work, I'm not gonna force them. Sure. So it's the balancing act of, you know, help me maintain my contract. But at the same time, you know, if you, if family wants you home, be home, you should be home with family.

Drew Slocum: (18:08):

Yep, yep. Yeah. So it's

Chris Logan: (18:12):

Just hoping the government sees that and is eventually like, you know what, let's take a, a two to three week time out here. Let's just pause everything, push everything back for you.

Drew Slocum: (18:23):

That's if's If everybody's on the same page though, I I, if everybody got on the same page, I feel like this would, you know, I don't know. We're gonna look back at this podcast and, and it might be, uh, obviously different in a few weeks. So hopefully, hopefully it's a lot better and we're out of this, but

Chris Logan: (18:39):

It could be different tomorrow.

Drew Slocum: (18:40):

Yeah.

Chris Logan: (18:41):

That's how fast things have been evolving is that it's, it's changing day by day. Like I said, it's something we've never, we've never seen before as an industry and as a, you know, as a country, as a, as a pop general world population, something we haven't experienced.

Drew Slocum: (18:58):

Sure.

Chris Logan: (18:59):

Curious to see how, uh, you know, Italy's getting decimated right now. China was decimated. They're supposed to be on the swing, but

Drew Slocum: (19:09):

Yeah, it's all about stats, right. You know, and Yeah. Yeah. I dunno, it's, it's wild.

Chris Logan: (19:17):

Any confirmed cases in your area?

Drew Slocum: (19:19):

Um, it was weird, you know, the, um, in the rival daycare that my, that my boys go to, uh, a little kid had it there, which is crazy. It's right down the street. Yeah. Um, they caught it from the NBA place. Did you hold on

Chris Logan: (19:36):

Up here? Did you call it a rival business?

Drew Slocum: (19:41):

Uh, rival, whatever. It's the, it's the other daycare in town, . They're battling for a

Chris Logan: (19:47):

Rival daycare. There's flight every other week on the way to school.

Drew Slocum: (19:51):

. Yeah.

Chris Logan: (19:52):

Come on. Trying to make, trying to keep it light. We'll try to keep it. I know,

Drew Slocum: (19:55):

Right. Uh, they, uh, the night or a few days before, they got an autograph from the NBA player that, um, came down with it from the Utah Jets Wild. So the whole daycare is now in quarantine, self quarantine for whatever, 18 days. And that's literally right down the street from us. So, I don't know, but nothing in, nothing in eastern Connecticut where we're at. But, uh, that's in Western Rhode Island, which we're on the border of. So, um, right. Yeah, it's, I don't know. It's, uh, luckily I, I have some friends, a lot of friends in New York City and some in Boston, and, um, you know, New York City, it's, you know, people, a lot of people can work from home there, but mo most people are in the indu in industry or service industry. So I don't know anything tied to restaurants is, is, uh, it's tough.

Chris Logan: (20:51):

Yep.

Drew Slocum: (20:52):

So

Chris Logan: (20:53):

It's, uh, even like small town, I live in small town, like 32, 3300 people. Uh, there's two major restaurants in town. They're doing takeout only. And actually the big one, I think just said, you know what, they're sending our people home closed. There's no takeout or anything.

Drew Slocum: (21:10):

And I, I, I've heard, you know, in our industry, or not the sprinkler side, but the fire protection side is tied to that because you have all these suppression, these Ansel, sorry, Ansel Amax, whatever the, you know, uh, wet and dry chemical systems that are, that are tied to these restaurants. So, you know, those businesses are, you know, within a day disrupted across the us Yep. It's, it's, it's not hopefully, hopefully diversified. And, uh, I, I have heard some great stories from this though. We, we had a, um, one of our customers sent us a note the other day that they, um, they have a, uh, some, one of their, one of their kids has a, a severe respiratory problem. And, um, because of inspect point, they're able to work from home and able to continue on their business. So it was, it was a really good, you know, there's a lot of positives, like you said, are coming out of this. So, um, yeah, crazy. It's a

Chris Logan: (22:13):

Balance. It's gonna be a balancing act for everybody over the next, the next six weeks I think is gonna be crucial for our industry. Um, trying to figure out how to, not manipulate, but try to adjust and try to make it so that our, we, we have newer, better systems in place to prevent future, uh, illnesses from spreading across the community. Um, as well as just gives everybody trying to pause, right? Everybody just kinda look at the way we're doing things. Is there a way that we can do things better? Yep. And that's what I've, that's what I've been doing for my company, just kinda looking at things and how can, how can we take this slow down to improve our processes and operations?

Drew Slocum: (22:58):

Oh yeah. Yep. Yeah. I I, it is funny, uh, three weeks ago, I think it's this point, there was an FS F S S A conference, fire Suppression Systems Association down in, uh, down near Disney World. And it was a great, great show. Got to see a lot of clean agent, a lot of different, and they do everything. There was a, there's some Canadian companies there, Troy, Troy, life and Fire Safety were there. They there maybe a couple others as well. But, um, anyway, um, the keynote speaker wrote a book called Rock the Recession, and this is literally like two and a half weeks ago. So I'm, I'm like reading this book now, rock the Recession to get your business. And a lot of it's geared toward contractors. And if you don't have a good plan ready, um, and you don't have to have it all always written down, but at least in your mind of what, what do you do? What do you do if your largest customer all of a sudden or your largest income stream just leaves? So, um, I don't know. It's, it, it, it's really eerie that that happened like two and a half weeks ago and now we're in the, we're in the boat where it's definitely a recession, but how, how deep is it gonna go?

Chris Logan: (24:10):

Right. Where do you see it as a, um, technology provider? Like, uh, essentially you're an industry, I won't say an industry assisting cause you help out the fire protection industry. How do you see a lot of the smaller contractors like myself as well as the bigger contractors, uh, getting to the other side of the hill?

Drew Slocum: (24:32):

Well, I'm, I'm gonna reference some of the book here, but, um, you know, the biggest thing that, uh, so construction's heavily tied to new construction in fire, sprinkler alarm, and even on the suppression. And definitely on the suppression side too, what'll get you through the other side is the inspection and service. So if you have a good balance in your portfolio, that's what, yes, you're gonna have to downsize on the other side, but that's what pays the bills and what's gonna keep money coming in, revamp your business in the process. And then you come out when that, when that new construction picks up again, you're, you're coming out and you have a bigger platform on, on your service side. Um, and generally that's higher profit as well. So, um, cuz you're not dealing with a gc, you're dealing more with an owner getting, you know, emergency services and, and things like that. So, um, if you have that good balance right now, perfect it if, you know, if you've gotta, you've gotta scale up. But if, if you're 90% new construction, 10%, you know, service, it's gonna, it's gonna be a big hit, I think. Mm-hmm. .

(25:44)
So, but the other side of that sales marketing, that's what they said, you know, is well in the book, is a lot of money gets taken out of the, uh, you know, taken out of, uh, different businesses. So they, they pull back on anything they don't need. Sales and marketing could be potential to, to really, to really drive that, you know, and it's not, it's not right away, you know, recessions last, if I had a crystal ball, I'd be a, a billionaire, but , I don't, I don't think this one's going any, uh, way anytime soon.

Chris Logan: (26:18):

No, it's, its, you know, we've said it a couple times an now already. It's day to day. Yeah. We have no idea where it's gonna be in the week. We have no idea where it's gonna be in months. We have, you know, it's, uh, it's crazy times we've been using, um, you know, all our office staff is working from home, all of our office staff. That's

Drew Slocum: (26:37):

Great. That's great. You're geared up for that. What I've been hearing in a lot of contractors, uh, what I've, I've talked, I've been talking to a lot of them. A lot of them didn't even, some of 'em didn't even have laptops for their employees. So it's like, oh man, you know, and then I talked to my cousin who's in, who's in like digital technology, sales and laptops and everything are back ordered, like beyond where anything's ever been.

Chris Logan: (27:04):

I haven't been to Best Buy because I've been trying to stay home as often as possible. I'm sure it's, I'm sure it's bare, right?

Drew Slocum: (27:10):

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Chris Logan: (27:14):

So it's, uh, it's crazy times. The only thing we can tell everybody is to, it's, uh, you know, wash your damn hands, , stay at home. Yeah. Keep your family safe. But really the, do we have any specific advice for fire protection people right now? No. Just stay safe and, uh, you know, just pay attention.

Drew Slocum: (27:34):

It's stay safe. But like you said before, like what you're doing is taking some time to reflect and see what, what you need to do in the short term and what you need to do in the medium term. And you're gonna have, I think everybody's gonna have some time on their hands in the next couple weeks, so, you know, you have some time to reflect on that. Don't, and stay positive. Wash your damn hands. Yes, definitely. But I think positivity will, um, will get you out of it, right?

Chris Logan: (28:02):

Yep. Exactly. Um, what else, uh, do you have anything else you wanna, you wanna talk about before we get off here? Like you just, you know, you reached out, you wanted to talk generally about the situation with Covid 19 and how the industry is gonna, you know, potentially get through this, but, uh, I don't think neither of us have an answer for how the industry's gonna get through this or what we can do other than just, you know, stick it out. I

Drew Slocum: (28:29):

Mean, we're, try fire and life safety I think is pretty safe industry being, um, a new, new, new commercial construction and residential construction. It'll take a, it'll take a dip, but it'll definitely come back. So,

Chris Logan: (28:42):

Right.

Drew Slocum: (28:43):

You take, say, you know, you're gonna put out some podcasts right in the next

Chris Logan: (28:47):

I'm, I'm planning on, you know, there's gonna be a lot of industry people that aren't out or aren't are working, so I'm assuming there's gonna be a lot of people that want to talk sprinkler. And that's, uh, you know, that's my bread and butter. I'll talk sprinkler all day. Yeah. So if there's anybody out there again that wants to come on and, and talk about a new product or talk about a new procedure or, or an idea or anything, any suggestions for anybody out there that's kinda losing their mind with this lockdown, uh, reach out to me or, I'm sure Drew's looking for people to talk to as well. Oh yeah. Yep. Uh, reach out to either of us, your preferred podcast. Maybe we'll say that, man, , let, let's get content out there for people in the industry to, you know, stay involved and not kinda, not fall off the map, but fall off the map, but keep everybody interested.

Drew Slocum: (29:35):

Yeah. I've got two geared up. I think for next week. We have a bunch of webinars that we're doing internally to, to try to keep people not in touch or even progress. So stay in tune with that. But I would, I would love any ideas. And again, we're all, uh, we're all in the same boat. And the quicker we do this, I think the quicker this thing is over and we're back. We're

Chris Logan: (29:56):

Back

Drew Slocum: (29:56):

Strong times.

Chris Logan: (29:57):

Stay wash your dam hands. Let's get back to work here as soon as we can.

Drew Slocum: (30:00):

Yeah. All right.

Chris Logan: (30:03):

Awesome.

Drew Slocum: (30:04):

Cheers, Chris. All right.

Chris Logan: (30:05):

True. Yep. We'll talk again soon here. Look at,

Drew Slocum: (30:08):

Look at that. There you go,

Chris Logan: (30:10):

. Have a good one. Uh, as soon as we get off fun, go wash your damn hands.

Drew Slocum: (30:15):

Sounds good. Thanks for listening to episode 19 of the Fire Protection Podcast. Chris Logan from the Fire Sprinkler podcast, and I had a, had a great time on Friday and wanted to, uh, thank all, all the listeners out there that have been supporting us over, over the last couple years and about a year with us. But Chris has been doing this the longest. So, uh, yeah, big shout out to him. And again, stay in touch. Feel free to reach out to either of us. Uh, we're always willing to talk about whatever topic, especially we have some, uh, downtime the next couple weeks. So again, hope you enjoyed and come back soon.