Drew sits down with John Mackey, Director of Digital Strategy and Acquisition at Hiller, to chat about the new transition in the industry from a service contractor's viewpoint. Being involved in a variety of different positions within fire protection John discusses the challenges for the industry in the next 10 years and where things are heading.
Full Transcript
Drew Slocum: (00:09):
This is episode three of the Fire Protection Podcast, powered by Spec Point. Today my guest is John Mackey. John is the Director of Digital Strategy, acquisition and Service Operations at the Hiller Companies. Very long title. So we get into that definitely. But we also get into John's history and fire protection, where he came from. John has a great perspective on where the industry is heading from a contractor's point of view. We also d discuss where, uh, different manufacturers need to be in the coming years with some of the changes coming to the industry. So please stay tuned to more episodes and enjoy the podcast today. Today we've, we've got John Mackie with us. Uh, he works for, uh, is it Hiller America's, what, what is it? Hiller?
John Mackey: (00:59):
So it's the, the Hiller Companies is the legal, the, the legal name
Drew Slocum: (01:03):
Hiller Companies. And John John's the director of, uh, digital Strategy, acquisition and Service Operations. That, yes. Is it, that's a huge title.
John Mackey: (01:13):
That's a mouthful. I just usually abbreviates just business development, cuz I figure that's a broad enough statement to cover most of the things that I do
Drew Slocum: (01:20):
. Nice. Yeah. And I'll, I'll, yeah, let's get into a few of those here a as we chat. But, uh, again, wanna make this little informal, just get your, uh, what you guys are doing out there. And I know, um, ITM and service is obviously what us here at Inspect Point do, but, um, you know, you're more on the contracting aspect of that and kind of want to get your perspective on some topics here. So, um, before we get into that, uh, what, I guess, how'd you get into fire protection?
John Mackey: (01:52):
Um, I think, uh, like most of us, uh, somewhat by accident, , I didn't go to school to be a fire protection engineer. Uh, didn't go to school to be a technician. Um, I, I came across, uh, a role, um, about 15 years ago to be the director of Human Resources for Ansel. And, um, when, um, I think like a lot of folks that are in fire protection today, that's when I got the bug and, um, had the opportunity to lead the HR effort, uh, for Ansel for a few years. And then, um, moved into a senior role, a Tyco, uh, in a combined, um, Ansel special hazards Tyco Sprinkler role, um, where you and I started to work together and then, um, into a sales leadership position. Um, after, after that. And, um, really, really started to really appreciate, um, the roles that our contractors play in this market space.
(02:47)
So, an opportunity to go do something different. Um, I found myself working for the Hiller companies, which, um, is probably one of the oldest fire protection contractors in the United States, celebrating the 100th year this year. And, uh, rich history in both marine and commercial fire protection. And, uh, given the, you know, recession issues and challenges we all faced back in 2008, 2009, uh, Hiller made a concentrated effort on, uh, service in both marine and commercial and, uh, you know, tested and speced and maintenance, um, on all the systems that we design and install and everything else that's out there. So it's crazy industry.
Drew Slocum: (03:23):
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. It's, you know, over the last, I don't know, few years since within Inspect, point before that, you know, the I, TM and service realm, you know, was in a, I might have told this story before, but, uh, at Viking, some of the head leaders there, that's the next growth area was the, the service and TM industry. So, and you've really seen that in, with some of the acquisition over the last few years as well, um, with your, you with yourself and some of the other, other regional players out there. Uh, I guess how does, I don't really fully understand that, you know, I know, I know you're head of acquisition. How does, how does a company go about that and what, is there different things you look at from, from companies out there than, than others?
John Mackey: (04:12):
Yeah, I think it's, uh, it's all about the fi obviously the financial performance of a company. But you look at our market, um, you know, those nice installs, uh, you know, come across occasionally throughout the year, you know, we might see, depends how big you are, but, you know, 6, 8, 10, 12 installs. Um, and those are long cycles, long sales cycles, long installation cycles, and then you see revenue at the end of the job, right? What's nice about service is that it's a good recurring base of business, right? Doesn't matter if it's a sprinkler system, fire alarm, special hazard system. There are cycles, monthly, quarterly, semi-annually, annually that those systems have to be inspected, tested, and maintained. And so, um, that alone generates more revenue. It keeps those technicians busier every day and allows, you know, the contractor base to offset overhead, go out and buy more equipment, uh, invest back in the business through technology. Um, because it's a steady stream of revenue, um, that you can predict year to year. And when it comes to grow, um, it's a predictable model with regard to deploy. X number of technicians will give you, you know, y number of dollars back in your pocket,
Drew Slocum: (05:29):
Right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, in recession proof, I get, you know, to a certain extent, obviously, but, you know, codes obviously just, it grows, it doesn't, um, you know, code usually doesn't come backwards, so no no. But, uh, yeah, the, uh, it's interesting the acquisition landscape, and you know what, I, I try to, when I reach out to customers myself, I try to push that out. There is the, the better ITM and service you have, the, the more attractive you are either, um, if you ever wanna sell down the road or just just your business in general, um, you know, whether it's big companies like Hiller or other ones out there, or private equity firms, they want that reoccurring revenue. So
John Mackey: (06:21):
They do, they do. It's, uh, just, it, it's a proven model and it works.
Drew Slocum: (06:26):
Yep. Yep. So, um, into one, one of other, your titles, that digital strategy, which is kind of right in line with, uh, what we're doing here. Um, I guess I know what my perspective isn't on that. I know what a, a manufacturer's potential perspective is if they, I don't know if they necessarily have one, a manufacturer Sure. Uh, yet at least. But, um, from a, from a contractor, contractor's point of view, what, um, I guess what, what does that digital strategy mean, I guess, in your role?
John Mackey: (07:01):
Well, I think it, you know, it, uh, we look at what's going on around us in our personal lives, right? You know, we bank now through apps. We, um, go look for companies off of Google. Um, we pay our bills through some sort of customer portal or, um, you know, online capability, um, to the power company or to the cable company, or, or whatever it might be. And, and you see how, uh, the digital, um, you know, systems are having such a strong impact, um, on our personal lives. Uh, it's starting to move more and more into, uh, the business to business type services. Um, we see it at home. Um, even if you're at home, you're trying to go get an electrician, you've gotta go to Angie's List or some other service to, to go find that electrician or that plumber. Oh, yeah. Um, so how do they go find a, um, business to business contractor like a fire sprinkler contractor, inspector, or, um, you know, fire alarm contractor.
(08:01)
And, um, they do that first and foremost by doing a Google search. So from a digital perspective, how, how, how strong or how well represented is your company in the digital space? All right, so obviously it starts with a webpage, but webpage has been around for 15 years. Um, that webpage has to be updated quite continuously, uh, in order to stay towards the top of a, a Google ad search, right? And so how do you do that? There's a number of ways, right? You, you gotta continue to write copy in a blog or, um, a podcast like this or mm-hmm. , um, uh, other, other means videos, uh, whatever it might, you know, take to continue to push your, your site to the top. Um, that's one perspective. Um, so that's the website. I think the other thing that, uh, um, is out there is, um, how companies do, uh, how they manage their work and, and use technology to integrate between their day-to-day activities, um, and using that platform to tie back into Google reviews.
(09:02)
So the customer has to come back and, uh, give a review on your service and your technician, um, because that, again, is part of the formula, so, right. You know, how do you do that through, uh, either some sort of review mechanism, um, whatever it might be. And then, um, I think the, the CU degra, which is, you know, the, um, that's, that's out there lingering is, you know, the role that applications have and how an app, uh, fits in our space. I think it's, it's still undefined, um, and it's, uh, unchartered waters, but I do see that, um, that's the, uh, the next level of the program, um, and ultimately make it easier for your customer. Uh, that's a see information. So you mean
Drew Slocum: (09:48):
An
John Mackey: (09:48):
Go around the location?
Drew Slocum: (09:49):
You mean an app like, uh, like personally for, for the contractor, for Hiller or something like that? They have their own app.
John Mackey: (09:56):
Um, uh, yeah, I think so. I, I think that's, that's where it's gonna go. Um, you know, I don't want to go into too many details about what, what Hiller has in the pipeline, but, uh, I think that, uh, an app is in the, is in the near future because, um, you've gotta find ways to, to make it easier for your customers to communicate with you.
Drew Slocum: (10:15):
Yeah, it does make sense from a, a property manager or a large building, or even a fire official to that extent. Um, absolutely. If they could have something in their hands where, um, uh, you know, a big fire protection contractors is in their realm, or they're using them all the time, if they can have, uh, quick access to them, then, you know, that's just more business and more, more profitability for the contractor. That's, I haven't heard of that yet. That's, that's very interesting.
John Mackey: (10:43):
Well, you bring, you bring up a pretty good point there too. I mean, at the end of the day, it's about, you know, the safety of those folks and those businesses we support, right? You know, those companies that we're servicing. And, um, we don't do this for our own benefit. Um, it's a nice business model, but it, you know, it's to support the, the codes and standards that we're, um, we're asked to inspect on a daily basis. Um, that information's vitally important back to that business owner so they can continue to operate their business smoothly and efficiently. Um, but I think it's also very important for the, the fire marshal, the fire chief, and the fire inspector. Um, you know, they've got limited resources and, um, you know, how, how can, um, we help them do their job better. And I think it, at the end of the day, it's gonna come down through technology and then how you apply the data that, that technology captures, um, to be able to share it at the end of the day to make, you know, everything safer for all of us. Um, that's what it's all about.
Drew Slocum: (11:39):
Yeah. Yeah. Easier is definitely safer. Um, you know, the more, more ahas are connected and, you know, you're starting to see that a little bit with the, the third party, uh, platforms or imss whatever, whatever you want to call 'em around the country, which are, you know, they're, there's pros and cons to, to both methodologies, but, um, the hjs are definitely getting more connected and obviously billing management companies and owners are, have been connected for years with the other trades out there. So, um, yeah. Uh, another kind of swing to a different topic here. Um, what, uh, you know, I know you have, you know, Hiller currently has, you know, hundreds of technicians out there throughout all their offices throughout the country. What, um, what, what problems, you know, could you see potentially, I know there's a big qualified personnel problem, uh, in, in not only fire protection industry, but a lot of construction and service industries. Is is there anything that's currently being done, um, and where do you see that going?
John Mackey: (12:56):
Well, I, I, I mean, I, I, you know, you and I have talked about this before. I, I, I see it, you know, obviously we're faced with the, uh, significant labor shortage and, and the fire protection folks, I think are at the, you know, the far end of the rope on this one because we're so far downstream, right? You have a choice if you're coming into an electrical trade, do you wanna be high voltage or low voltage? Um, and most people go towards the high voltage cause it's a little sexier. Um, if you're coming into the sprinkler trade, you know, do you wanna be a plumber or do you wanna be a fire sprinkler? Um, if you're pipe fit, do you wanna be a welder or do you wanna do, you know, uh, pipe fit on the sprinkler side? And so, um, the one component there is how do you recruit that talent, you know, to come to, um, our trade.
(13:39)
That's number one. And then that, then when you get 'em here, how do you train 'em? You know, you go into municipalities or even states, right? Big states especially have state sponsored apprenticeship programs, um, for electricians, for welders, for, um, sprinklers, um, or excuse me, plumbers. And so, um, but they don't have state sanctioned apprenticeship programs for let's, like, let's sprint fire sprinkler fitter or the fire alarm technician mm-hmm. . And that puts the trade, the, the industry, uh, it doesn't matter if it's alarm sprinkler or suppression, um, on point to come up with programs that meet that need. If I remember right. Think the state of New Jersey just passed through a law that says that, um, you have to fi if you're gonna be an apprentice, uh, in the state, you have to be in a state sponsored program. And, um, fire, right now, the fire suppression industry doesn't have one. So how do you get in front of that in the state of New Jersey?
Drew Slocum: (14:33):
Yeah.
John Mackey: (14:34):
You know, and I don't, I don't live in New Jersey, so I don't know all the particulars about it, but that's, that's, that's a challenge. And I think that if, if New Jersey's doing it, then at what point does California come by? And now you start to pinch towards the center of the United States, it, uh, it changes the conversation. I think at the end of the day, um, it's gonna come down to one, how do you recruit people into the, into the industry, um, when there's already a shortage? And then secondly, when you get 'em into the, that company, company a, company B, how do you train them?
Drew Slocum: (15:02):
Right?
John Mackey: (15:03):
And then, and then, you know, either through associations, through state apprenticeships programs or state programs of some sort, uh, and then internally, and then I think the greater challenge is how do you retain them over time, right? Because, um, then it's gonna become a, become a wage war, right? Yeah. Yeah. And I, voltage electrician's gonna get paid a premium, and the low voltage electrician doesn't necessarily get a premium. And so, um, they're, everyone's trying to provide for their families. And so what does that look like? Um, that's a challenge for, for us, but nine different than a challenge for the electrician trade of the plumbers because
Drew Slocum: (15:38):
Sure.
John Mackey: (15:39):
This, uh, this generation coming out of, um, high school, um, are not being taught the trades. And when they think of their career plans, they're not necessarily looking to go into the field, um, and working outside, uh, in a hot or cold, uh, area, dusty, um, you know, they've got visions of, you know, working in, um, you know, a nice comfortable, uh, air controlled space and, uh, and not necessarily getting dirty.
Drew Slocum: (16:03):
Yeah. Um, you
John Mackey: (16:04):
Know,
Drew Slocum: (16:07):
New person. It's not even, it's not only that. I mean, even, even here at Inspect point, it's, we've, we've found a little tough to, to find some, some, some of the newer generations just wanted to, I don't know, get to work sometimes. I, it's, it's, uh, , how, how do you, how do you promote that? And, you know, it's tough to, it is tough to find, uh, good people, good people, uh, in a lot of different industries. So, um, yeah. And everybody, you know, who is responsible? Is it, is it the contractor? Do the associations get involved more? Um, I think the associations is a, an interesting way to put everybody's head together to really go after it, um, with a lot of different sources of, um, not only income, we could throw, throw dollars at it to get more people in involved to market it, but, um, we have a lot of different, uh, viewpoints on that as well. So,
John Mackey: (17:03):
Yeah. And I would also say a, again, I think that, uh, let's talk about the roles of the manufacturers, right? Because at the end of the day, they're, it's their product, right? That, uh, is gonna be impacted, right? And if you, it, you know, it's a, a path at least resistance. Um, and that, I think that's in almost everything we do. And so, um, if there are an excess number of fire sprinkler, um, pipe fitters that can install more sprinkler systems and not enough technicians to maintain fire extinguishers, well, the path forward is then guess we're gonna put more fire sprinkler
Drew Slocum: (17:35):
Systems in. Yep.
John Mackey: (17:37):
And for the fire sprinkler contract, you're the fire breaker content you're saying, great. But if you're the fire extinguisher distributor saying, whoa, what do I do?
Drew Slocum: (17:43):
Right?
John Mackey: (17:44):
Right. So, um, I I would, you know, and I've challenged the suppliers, you know, as I've met with them to say, what are you doing to supply training programs back to the industry? Right. You know, your sponsorship of the associations or your sponsorship back to, um, a state or regional training program. Um, you know, you've got, uh, Brooks equipment right now who's out there doing fire equipment, f e d training, um, across the suite of products that go through Eds e lights and hood systems and fire extinguishers. Yeah. But it, where's Amarex? Where's Ansel? Right. You know, where's Buckeye in that mix? Right. Um, you know, obviously, you know, Brooks is trying to find a better path to get the message out and get more people, um, you know, into the trade.
Drew Slocum: (18:28):
Yeah. We actually, we actually started something similar. We're, we're starting to reach out to some of the apprenticeship programs in different states with just our digital platform. And it's been a huge hit. I mean, it doesn't even necessarily have to be in spec point just to get, you see, technicians used to having an iPad or a tablet in their hand and doing an inspection differently than they were on paper for 30 years before that. So, um, yeah. You you pose a big question on the manufacturer side, though.
John Mackey: (19:02):
Yeah. I mean, think of it to your point about the technology. I mean, look at how we all live today. And I'm not a millennial. I mean, I'm, I'm a parent to millennials or even the next gener generation below them, but, you know, we've all become attached to a, a smartphone or a tablet, and so we have to find ways to incorporate that technology into what we do every day. Right. You know, I, I'm finding myself, I was at a conference this weekend. I went meeting to meeting with my phone, and I opened up an app Evernote, and I captured all the notes on Evernote, and I took pictures of the slides and, and, uh, as I was driving back to, you know, that was what I was kind of going through to kind of recapping my mind what I just learned over the last three days. And, you know, so how do you take that idea and put it in a technician's hands to help him do his job a little bit better?
Drew Slocum: (19:46):
Yeah. Yeah.
John Mackey: (19:47):
Right. Because now it becomes the natural process.
Drew Slocum: (19:51):
Yeah. That, that paper form that everything, yeah. It's, it's, it's gone. It's, it's ancient at that point, mm-hmm. and hopefully hope the Hjs get down to that. Uh, and I think they're coming to that. They're, you know, there's some technology out there that'll definitely help out with their, with their lives, and, um, that'll just push it even further. So get into a question I have on, on some of the manufacturers. You know, I'm, I'm pretty involved in, in, you know, I was involved pretty well with Sprinkler, and I kind of know what's going, coming out fire alarm wise, but, you know, suppression, I try to keep up to date on, on different suppression manufacturers, ANAM, ORX, Buckeye, Badger, kid A the whole, the whole suite of everybody. Um, where, where is that industry going? I don't, I don't, it's, it seems pretty stagnant. I don't . Um, I mean, do you, or do you follow, obviously you follow it because you're, you're a contractor in the industry, but I don't, what is the next wave for suppression?
John Mackey: (21:00):
I, I, I really don't know other than finding ways to become more innovative with the product. Yeah. Right. Um, and, um, I'm not sure what that looks like. I'm not an engineer. I mean, I've got some ideas with regards to how you use the data that that product can capture. Sure. Um, but, um, I think that, um, you look at what's happening with, uh, Kitta UTC has come out and said that they are for sale. They've been very open about that. It's been in published reports. Yep. Um, and, um, you know, who buys Kit Kiddas, the oldest fire equipment manufacturer in the country? No, lemme finish. They're probably next to Grinnell, but technically . Right. They make bigger pieces of equipment, so, sure. Um, since, you know, 1917. So in that same realm, um, strong brand, um, it's kind of watered down. Some of the others, fenal went away.
(21:46)
Now it's just keda. And so, um, that buyer, um, isn't necessarily gonna be, um, a direct fire competitor. I honestly think here's the innovative play is that the person that's gonna be interested in buying Kid of Fire Systems is gonna be a company that's interested in integrating that fire system into everything else. That building has H V A C, electrical elevators, you know, um, you know, all their mechanical systems. Um, just to kind of bring the whole suite together. Um, you know, look at what JCI has done with Ansel. I mean, that's, that was, that's the play there. And then JCI and George Oliver have been very open and honest about that's where they're going. Yep. Yep. Um, and then, um, so that's, those are the big boys. So then what does it do to the, the, the next ones down? Right. Um, Buckeye has a limited portfolio. Badger has a limited portfolio. Um, Amex just sold, sold off Solberg foam Yep. To another foam manufacturer. So there's integration on the foam side
Drew Slocum: (22:48):
Yeah. And the wild wildfire, I think manufacturer Right. Doing wildfire. Exactly.
John Mackey: (22:52):
Yeah. Yeah. Class a, uh, retardants and, um, and foam. So, you know, you look at, um, you know where it's going, drew, I think it's gonna be much the same. Yeah. You know, you go back 25 years ago, um, you know, when wold owned Ansel mm-hmm. , Taku came in and bought Ansel from Wold. Right, right. Um, look at, you know, you, you know, you and I were on the back end of the, you know, century, um, uh, star not century, remember
Drew Slocum: (23:21):
For Central German and Star Central,
John Mackey: (23:23):
Central German star, um, acquisitions that Tyco did. Right, right. And, and that integration, simplex Grinnell and that integration, um, I, I don't know how, um, that's all consolidation and all it is, then it's cleaned up the market. Um, I don't necessarily say it's making it any better. Right. Um, it creates its own challenges by itself. But at the end of the day, um, I think the, the richness of our industry is on strong contractors, um, that are really able to, you know, take the, you know, meet the needs of their customers and, and drive compliance and, um, and the manufacturers, um, find a way to generate more value through, you know, integration and innovation of better products on their end.
Drew Slocum: (24:04):
Yeah. Yeah. And that's, that kind of goes in line with what I heard a few years ago when I was with Viking, is the next wave is, is the contractor ITM and service. So, um, driving that, driving smarter buildings, uh, there, there is some technology that some of the suppression and even sprinkler and whatever manufacturers, that there is some digital technology out there that's kind of being untapped that we're trying to do. Um, hopefully, uh, some stuff comes out here in the next few months, but, uh, it is really exciting. Definitely. Really exciting. So, yeah,
John Mackey: (24:40):
I, I, I honestly think, I think the industry's getting ready to go through a, a significant change at the conference I was at this week, you know, has been around since 1982. And, um, you know, they, you have, you know, the, the original founding members still there. Um, and then you have, uh, a number of new talent come into the mix. And the question from new talent is where's the innovation and where's the new technology?
Drew Slocum: (25:03):
Right.
John Mackey: (25:04):
You know, how do we do our jobs better? How do we make it better for our customer? How do we find ways to put, you know, push clean agent gas further bigger tanks, or, you know, how do you, how do you integrate that panel, um, you know, off of a traditional, um, reporting mechanism into the ip, uh, infrastructure that's already in the building?
Drew Slocum: (25:24):
Yeah.
John Mackey: (25:25):
Right. And so, um, you know, you have the, the new generations that are coming into the workforce, challenging the folks that have been here for a while saying, we've got to change people. . Yeah. Yeah,
Drew Slocum: (25:37):
Yeah. . Yeah, I get it a lot. It's, it's funny, I talk to a lot of contractors throughout the US and, um, you know, new, you know, sons of businesses are coming in, or even grandsons of business coming in and, and try, they're challenging the owners and, um, a lot of times I get, you know, uh, uh, they, they don't get what they want, but eventually the, the owners, if they don't follow the wave, then they're just gonna get, you know, swept over by, uh, a larger player. So,
John Mackey: (26:09):
Well, you're right. Or think of the technology, right? So they of some other industries that have leveraged technology to do what they do. Right. Look at the security space, look at access control, uh, look at some of the smart houses and smart, you know, construction processes are going on in the residential space studies like Denver. Yeah. Right. At what point do those technologies start to find their way into fire? Right. You know, someone made a comment at the, the round table, or the open or the town hall, um, Monday and said, you know, well, we've got 10 years, our industry's always lagged everybody else. Well, that's because the codes have allowed us to lag. But who's to say that, you know, somebody else brings a game changing technology, uh, into the market and says, you know what, we can put that fire alarm system in that same system Right. And do the same thing. And guess what? I don't need to run new wires.
Drew Slocum: (26:53):
Yeah.
John Mackey: (26:54):
Right.
Drew Slocum: (26:55):
So what Google Nest is, right. Essentially.
John Mackey: (26:58):
Yeah. Look at your ring , you know, I mean, all that stuff. I mean, it's, and it's in our, it's in our personal homes right now. Yeah. At one point, does it make sense to bring it into the, into the commercial space?
Drew Slocum: (27:07):
Right. Well, good. Um, yeah, this has, this has been fun chatting. We'll, we'll definitely have to do this again. Um, before, before we go, uh, wanna, I just started this, uh, this podcast. So there's, we're we're, we do this something called a Quick Response Round , um, quick response. You, you only, you know, uh, Phil Gunning was on, on my last podcast. Uh, I let, I let him have a couple. Uh, it depends, but, um, these are a little more fun. I, I, I geared these little non-industry. So, um, yeah, let's start it up. Uh, so I know you're, I know you're Chicago guy. Yes. This is, this should be an easy one. Cubs or Sox?
John Mackey: (27:52):
I'm the South sider. Through and through. Oh, it's
Drew Slocum: (27:54):
All
John Mackey: (27:55):
All about the White Sox. Oh,
Drew Slocum: (27:57):
I thought you were a Cubs fan. Wow. learning that. All right. Um, deep Dish or Chicago style hotdog.
John Mackey: (28:06):
So Chicago style, hotdog sport peppers, uh, celery salt. Yes. And all Yeah. On the poppy seed bun.
Drew Slocum: (28:17):
Yeah. Deep dish. Deep dish is not a pizza anyway,
John Mackey: (28:19):
So no deep dish is is tourist Chicago.
Drew Slocum: (28:22):
It's a casserole.
John Mackey: (28:24):
What I say, you want a good Chicago pizza, you gotta get in the neighborhood, you gotta go on the south side, you
Drew Slocum: (28:29):
Know. Couple more here. Uh, tiger or Phil?
John Mackey: (28:35):
Phil.
Drew Slocum: (28:36):
Phil. All right. That's he one. He's got nice little comeback this year here too. Um, the exciting, I've
John Mackey: (28:42):
Always liked Phil, and the first half of the first 10 years of his career, he was always the underdog, the fighter. Right. And then, uh, he got, he broke through, started to win some majors. Um, you know, and, um, you know, just a good guy. I I, I'd love to sit down and, and, uh, you know,
Drew Slocum: (28:59):
Debate, share
John Mackey: (29:00):
A cigar with him and just talk golf life.
Drew Slocum: (29:03):
Yeah. He's on, uh, he's on social media now in the last six months, and it's, he's a, he's a, he's a character, definitely. Yep.
John Mackey: (29:11):
Yep.
Drew Slocum: (29:12):
Uh, industry question. So hire, so if you're hiring a technician, hire from competition or train from the ground up,
John Mackey: (29:20):
Train from the ground up. I think that, uh, you look at what goes on in the industry. I think there's, you know, if you're not controlling the training path, um, people are learning shortcuts. Um, they're learning from, you know, so and so at company B and, uh, not necessarily trained Right. Um, or trained in the ways that, uh, you expect the work to get done. So I'd like to see owner or see companies, contractors, uh, develop their own.
Drew Slocum: (29:44):
Yeah, I, I agree. It's, it's retainage. That's, that's the tough part there. And if you could do that, it's, it's, uh, it's a definitely a win-win. Yep. Um, iOS or Android?
John Mackey: (29:58):
IOS.
Drew Slocum: (29:58):
IOS. All right.
John Mackey: (30:01):
. I'm,
Drew Slocum: (30:01):
I'm, we're on board obviously with that too.
John Mackey: (30:04):
. Yeah. I've been an Iowa OS guy all the way. Uh, I probably, my kids have a lot of influence on that too, because, you know, they, they carry, they've got MacBooks and they got iPhones in their little, and, you know, it's, uh, you know, it just seems to be, um, the easiest thing to use. Yeah.
Drew Slocum: (30:19):
I think
John Mackey: (30:19):
She just, I struggled, I struggled getting rid of my Blackberry back, back in the day. But, uh, , uh, I absolutely love my iPhone. Yeah.
Drew Slocum: (30:28):
Yeah. It's, uh, hopefully, I think they're doing some transformation on the tablet side here soon. It should be, uh, hopefully, uh, change the industry up a little bit more, but, um, good. Uh, last one, N F L or College fbs.
John Mackey: (30:44):
So, um, you know, if you asked me that question five years ago when I lived in the north, yeah. Um, you know, 60 miles from Lambeau Field, I'd say nfl. Um, but uh, given all the shenanigans that, um, the NFL players have, have run the league through, and even how the league itself has run, I don't necessarily agree with what's going on. And I've lived in the South now for six years, truly, truly appreciate, um, college football, cuz down in the south it's all about Saturday football and, um, which leads you to, you know, the FBS and, and everything that, that goes with it. Uh, and no, I am not an Alabama football fan. ,
Drew Slocum: (31:21):
I was actually connect
John Mackey: (31:22):
Don't, don't tell my coworker that. Buddy . I'll hear about it.
Drew Slocum: (31:27):
Uh, that's funny. That's funny. Well, um, yeah, that kind of does it for us. Uh, I, you know, I appreciate the time. Um, it's been a lot of fun. I know we've chatted over the last few years. You've really, you've really, uh, mentored me, pushing me through some, a lot of, you know, a lot of what's going on with, with Inspect point and everything we have here. So, uh, um, I appreciate all that and, um, we'll have to do this again soon. Definitely.
John Mackey: (31:53):
Well, thank you for the opportunity, drew, and really, you know, um, um, you've also, you know, kind of pushed my thinking, uh, as well. So, um, I'm glad we've been able to, you know, over the last 10 years since, uh, we've started working together, uh, to develop a, a good friendship and, um, I'm glad I could help you out and, you know, um, look forward to, you know, the next time we're together, either on the golf course or over at dinner or, you know, or on the next podcast.
Drew Slocum: (32:17):
Yeah, definitely. Yeah, definitely. Well, uh, thanks again and, uh, we'll talk here soon.
John Mackey: (32:24):
Great. Thanks man.
Drew Slocum: (32:25):
Thanks John. Thanks you for tuning in to episode three of the Fire Protection Podcast. We're definitely trying to do more in interviews like this at Inspect Point and on the Fire Protection Podcast, so please stay tuned, like us on all of the social media channels and please subscribe. See you next time.
