For Love & Money

In this International Women’s Day 2026 special, Carolyn Butler-Madden speaks with negotiation expert Sam Trattles about women in leadership, pay equity, professional development budgets, and the power of self-advocacy. Together they explore how conviction, craft and courage help leaders confidently ask for what they want — without damaging relationships — and why valuing yourself is a leadership responsibility, not an indulgence.

What if balancing the scales doesn’t begin with policy — but with permission?

In this International Women’s Day special, I’m joined by Sam Trattles — strategic negotiator, Founder and CEO of Other Side, and author of I Love Negotiating and Negotiate Your Worth.

With experience across more than $575 million in negotiations, Sam has built a uniquely Australian methodology called The Power To Ask — helping leaders bridge the gap between knowing and asking.

But this conversation isn’t about becoming aggressive or combative.

It’s about the long shadow of the “good girl” conditioning.

Together, we explore:

Sam unpacks her 3Cs framework:

Conviction — Do I truly believe what I’m asking for is fair and reasonable?

As Sam reminds us:

“We know what we want to ask. We just don’t know how to do it so that we don’t blow up the relationship.”

And perhaps most powerfully:

“What’s the cost of not asking? That’s got to be greater than asking.”

This episode is an invitation — not just to ask for more — but to model what self-advocacy looks like in leadership.

Because if we want to balance the scales, perhaps it begins with valuing ourselves — not as an act of ego, but as an act of leadership.

Sam Trattles CEO-Founder | Strategic Negotiator | Author | Speaker

Fear stops people from asking for what they want. Sam Trattles is changing that. She helps leaders overcome the hurdle between knowing and asking.

With experience from over $575M in negotiations, Sam created a uniquely Australian methodology, The Power to Ask, taking insights from high-stakes negotiations into practical frameworks for everyday leadership challenges.

Author of bestselling books, I Love Negotiating and Negotiate Your Worth, Sam helps leaders find their voice in the moments that matter. It’s not about becoming an aggressive ‘gun-slinger instead, Sam teaches people how to negotiate their way, getting results whilst strengthening relationships.

As Founder and CEO of Other Side, Sam transforms powerless moments into acts of conviction, inviting you to confidently embrace the power to ask.

Learn more at: thepowertoask.com

Sam on Linkedin

The Power To Ask Website

Take the Assessment

If this conversation resonated with you, I’d be so grateful if you left a rating — and, if you have a moment, a short review on your favourite podcast platform.

It genuinely makes a difference. Ratings and reviews help more purpose-driven leaders discover these conversations — and grow a community of people who believe business can be a force for good.

And if you haven’t already, make sure you’re following or subscribing to the podcast so you don’t miss future episodes. There’s so much more to explore at the intersection of love and money.

What if the leadership talent businesses need most is hiding in plain sight?

EPISODE OVERVIEW

What happens when someone reaches the centre of corporate power — and decides the traditional leadership path no longer makes sense?

Athena is a strategist, advisor and entrepreneur whose career spans senior leadership roles across ASX-listed companies, Fortune 500 organisations and high-growth businesses. Just as she was being positioned for a CEO role, Athena paused to question the model itself — researching the personal, organisational and societal cost of how leadership is typically structured.

What she uncovered led her to create The Flexible CEO: a model designed to connect highly experienced, underutilised executives with mid-sized organisations that need senior capability but can’t always access it through traditional pathways.

At the heart of this work is a bridge — between boards of mid-sized organisations facing complex growth and transformation challenges, and what Athena calls “hidden superstars”: seasoned leaders whose talent is too often sidelined by outdated assumptions about age, career paths and leadership fit.

Athena shares the personal purpose driving this work — improving financial wellbeing and mental health — shaped by her own lived experience and what she witnessed growing up. We also explore the broader social impact of this model, including its potential to address ageism, unlock economic value and create healthier, more sustainable leadership outcomes.

In this conversation, Athena reflects on recent milestones — including speaking at Harvard and the United Nations, and the upcoming release of her book The Flexible CEO — and offers practical insights for leaders, boards and organisations curious about how this model could work for them.

This is a thoughtful, future-focused conversation about leadership — and what becomes possible when we design work around life, not sacrifice.

IN THIS EPISODE, WE EXPLORE:

ABOUT ATHENA MANLEY

Athena Manley is a seasoned executive and owner of 3 companies. Across her 20+ year banking & insurance career, Athena has successfully led corporate strategy, distribution, IT, digital, people and culture, and business development in Fortune 500, ASX Top 10 and not-for-profit organisations. 

Athena completed her MBA at UQ, being awarded the Excellence in Leadership Award, she is also a Harvard Alumnus and member of the AICD. Through her firm The Flexible CEO, Athena empowers businesses to navigate CEO transitions and CEO's and NEDs to transition to flexible portfolio careers. Her mission is to lead and inspire exceptional businesses that improve financial empowerment and mental health in society.

LINKS & RESOURCES

Athena on Linkedin

The Flexible CEO Website

Join the next ONLINE MASTERCLASS: Grow and succeed in a portfolio career- for CEOs, NEDs and Executives . Use code VIPCEO for free registration. 

Episode Overview

What does it look like when a global brand doesn’t just talk about values — but organises around them?

In this episode of For Love & Money, I’m joined by Hilary McAllister, Activism Manager at Ben & Jerry’s Australia.

Hilary’s path into activism has been anything but linear. Beginning her career in events, she followed a growing concern for climate and environmental justice into grassroots campaigning, co-founding the not-for-profit For Wild Places before stepping into one of the most unusual roles in Australian business — leading activism from inside a global brand.

In our conversation, Hilary shares what drew her into purpose-led work, why serendipity and shared values matter more than rigid career plans, and how Ben & Jerry’s approaches climate justice as an always-on commitment rather than a one-off campaign.

We explore how activism operates inside the business, what it takes to earn the right to speak on social issues, and why progress is rarely linear — especially when you’re working for long-term systemic change.

Hilary also takes us behind the scenes of a major Australian climate campaign, unpacks Ben & Jerry’s mission-lock structure, and reflects on the balance between urgency, hope and personal sustainability when working at the frontlines of climate action.

At its heart, this episode is about purpose in action — and what becomes possible when business chooses courage over convenience.

In this episode, we explore

About Hilary McAllister

Hilary is based in Gadigal, Sydney, and is the Activism Manager at Ben & Jerry’s Australia. In her role, Hilary leads the strategic development and execution of climate justice campaigns, supporting grassroots campaigners across the country. A dedicated environmentalist, Hilary is also the CEO and co-founder of For Wild Places, a not-for-profit dedicated to protecting wild places under threat. Hilary’s path to activism has been anything but ordinary - shaped by curiosity, conviction, and a deep desire to contribute to lasting, planet-saving change.

Links & Resources

Hilary McAllister on Linkedin

Ben & Jerry's Australia website

For Wild Places website

Hilary's personal website

Ben & Jerry's Double Dip book - how to run a values-led business and make money too

Connect with Carolyn/Learn more about her work

Speaking website

Consulting, Leadership Development & Coaching

Linkedin 

What responsibility does business have in shaping the kind of country we want to be?

In this episode of the For Love & Money Podcast, I’m joined by Sarah Sheridan, Co-Founder and Deputy CEO of Clothing The Gaps — a certified Aboriginal business, social enterprise and B Corp that uses fashion as a platform for truth-telling, education and First Nations justice.

Sarah shares her personal journey from well-intentioned activism to deep accountability, and the realities of building a purpose-led business that must also be commercially sustainable to endure.

We talk candidly about the challenges of rapid growth, reshaping a business after COVID, and why purpose is not a magic pill — it demands better leadership, clearer focus and tougher decisions.

At the heart of this conversation is the Not a Date to Celebrate campaign, and a powerful exploration of why celebrating January 26 as Australia's national day remains deeply painful for First Nations people — and what role business can play in advocating for a more inclusive national story.

This is a grounded, honest and hopeful conversation about love in business — not as a soft idea, but as a force that requires courage, responsibility and action.

IN THIS EPISODE, WE EXPLORE

ABOUT SARAH SHERIDAN

Sarah Sheridan is the Co-Founder and Deputy CEO of Clothing The Gaps, a Melbourne-based streetwear label and social enterprise that champions Aboriginal people, culture and justice through fashion.

A certified Aboriginal business, social enterprise and B Corp, Clothing The Gaps is widely known for its role in national conversations around truth-telling, allyship and the movement to change the date of Australia Day.

Sarah grew up on a farm in north-central Victoria on Wotjobaluk Country and brings a deeply reflective, values-driven approach to leadership — grounded in listening, learning and long-term impact.

LINKS & RESOURCES

Learn more about Clothing The Gaps

Explore and support the Not a Date to Celebrate campaign

Sign the petition or find ways for your business to get involved

Connect with Sarah on Linkedin

Connect with Carolyn/Learn more about her work

Speaking website

Consulting, Leadership Development & Coaching

Linkedin 

EPISODE OVERVIEW

What does leadership look like when everything is on the line?

In this deeply moving episode of For Love & Money, I’m joined by Peter Baines OAM — humanitarian, leadership expert, founder of Hands Across The Water, and author of the powerful new book Together We Can (his fourth book).

Peter’s career began in forensic policing, investigating homicides and leading international disaster victim identification teams following events such as the 2002 Bali bombings and the 2004 Boxing Day tsunami. But it was his work in Thailand after the tsunami — and a chance meeting with children who had lost everything — that set him on a completely different path.

Twenty years on, Hands Across The Water has raised more than $40 million, supporting children and young people through long-term care, education and opportunity.

To mark the 20th anniversary of the tsunami, Peter undertook an extraordinary 1,400-kilometre run across Thailand in just 26 days — the equivalent of 33 marathons — an experience that he captures in his latest book, Together We Can.

But this conversation isn’t really about endurance.

It’s about collective effort, presence, belief, and what becomes possible when people come together around a shared purpose. Peter shares the leadership lessons forged through crisis, the power of community, and why doing hard things — together — matters more than ever.

IN THIS EPISODE, WE EXPLORE

ABOUT PETER BAINES OAM

Investigating homicides, leading international teams into scenes of crisis and disaster is not your normal path to global keynote speaker and business consultant.  It was this unique path that provided insights into leadership which are so different yet offer relevant reflections and learnings to businesses facing change, growth or challenges of their own. 

In 2024, to acknowledge the 20th anniversary of the 2004 tsunami he ran 1400km’s in just 26 days in Thailand averaging 60kms a day in the heat and humidity of Thailand the equivalent of running 33 marathons in 26 days.

When he is not engaged in work, you will find him driving his tractor on the farm where he lives with his wife, Claire, raising cattle and nurturing the ground on which they live.  His other interests that he embraces with a passion is as a helicopter pilot flying at every opportunity he gets and crossing the finish line of ultra marathons with his dogs Burton and Frankie. 

In 2025, Peter was identified as one of the top five most influential Australians working in Thailand.

LINKS & RESOURCES

Together We Can — Peter Baines: Buy the book, buy the audiobook, get a sample chapter.

Hands Across The Water website

Peter Baines — Leadership & Speaking

Watch a short video about Run to Remember

Episode Overview

What if the stories we watch could help rebuild the social fabric?

In this episode, I’m joined by Elizabeth Tyler — co-founder and CEO of good.film, a platform using film and television as a catalyst for connection, empathy and real conversation.

With declining social cohesion, rising loneliness and increasing polarisation across Western democracies, Elizabeth believes film offers something we desperately need: a shared narrative space where we can explore complexity together — not through debate, but through emotion, curiosity and story.

Elizabeth’s career began far from entertainment. From early student activism at UTS, to working on one of Tasmania’s most consequential political campaigns, to shaping creative-led advocacy for major nonprofits, her path has always centred on one thing: bringing people together around a vision of what’s possible.

Today, through good.film, she’s building a new category she calls Impact Entertainment — ambitious stories (from blockbusters to indie documentaries) that reveal something meaningful about the world, and help us see one another more fully.

We explore how she’s turned this mission into a business model, the hidden work of rebuilding social trust, and why film is uniquely positioned to spark the conversations we’re no longer having.

In This Episode We Explore:

Across each of these threads runs a single question: how do we rebuild meaningful connection in a fractured world?

This is a conversation for anyone feeling the fractures — and looking for hopeful, human ways to stitch connection back together.

About Elizabeth Tyler

Elizabeth Tyler is the co-founder and CEO of good.film, a platform bringing people back together through film and television. With a mission to counter declining social cohesion, loneliness and political polarisation, good.film curates ambitious stories — from blockbusters to Oscar winners to indie documentaries — and builds community around the conversations those stories spark.

Elizabeth’s career began in politics, where she worked on two successful election campaigns and served as an adviser to a Tasmanian Member of Parliament. She later led creative-led advocacy campaigns as Strategic Director at the Motion Picture Company, working with major charities across Australia. Internationally, she has contributed to global environmental politics through the Global Greens, supporting more than 100 Green parties worldwide.

She holds an MBA from UCLA Anderson, where she was awarded the Cockrum Fellowship for social change and the Wolfen Fellowship for entrepreneurship.

Her leadership philosophy centres on creating community, naming a bold vision, and reverse-engineering it into practical, scalable outcomes.

Connect with Elizabeth

Website: good.film

Linkedin: Elizabeth Tyler

Explore good.film: Sign up to build your watchlist and join the community

Learn more about the Scanlon Foundation Social Cohesion report

Information on the Impact Investment Summit (Sydney)

What does it mean to redefine wealth — not as accumulation, but as enoughness?

In this profound and compelling conversation, I speak with Sandy Blackburn, one of Australia’s leading voices in social impact and the founder of Social Outcomes and Impact Culture Australia.

Sandy spent 15 years living and working in South Africa during the final years of apartheid and the emergence of democracy — years that shaped her identity, worldview and lifelong commitment to social change. She shares the lessons those years taught her about community, belonging, and Ubuntu — the African philosophy meaning “I am because we are.”

We explore what Western cultures have lost in their worship of individualism, how business can rediscover its collective heartbeat, and why “enough” might be the most radical idea in the purpose economy.

Sandy also takes us inside her new venture, Impact Culture Australia, and the next frontier for purpose-driven organisations: embedding impact deeply into their culture, systems and ways of working.

This is a rich, layered, deeply human conversation about what really matters in business — and in life.

Sandy Blackburn has four decades of experience working in social change, organisational development, capacity building and culture change in Australia and internationally, including extensive work in community and organisational development in pre- and post-apartheid South Africa. Her autobiographical book, Holding Up the Sky: An African Life, captures her 15 years living through one of the most tumultuous and transformative periods in South Africa’s history — a journey that profoundly shaped her identity, worldview and commitment to social justice.

She is one of Australia’s leading thought leaders in social impact and is the founder of Social Outcomes, and more recently Impact Culture Australia.

Before founding these organisations, Sandy was Head of Social Innovation at Westpac, where she created the Organisational Mentoring Program — mobilising hundreds of employees to support for-purpose organisations to build their capacity, a systemic need that is notoriously underfunded. Through this work, and through Social Outcomes, Sandy has worked closely with many hundreds of for-purpose organisations, developing a deep understanding of the sector’s strengths and development needs.

Sandy is also co-founder of Impact Investing Australia, sits on the NAB Foundation’s Investment Committee, and serves on multiple for-purpose boards. She is a sought-after speaker, bestselling author, and holds a Masters Degree in Adult Education.

Website: Social Outcomes

What does kindness look like in business — and why does it matter for commercial success?

In this episode, I’m joined by Dr David Cooke—Executive Director of ESG Advisory, Adjunct Professor at UTS Business School, and author of Kind Business: How Values Create Value.

In this deeply human conversation, David shares his journey from a traditional corporate career to leading Konica Minolta Australia as its first non-Japanese Managing Director, where he transformed the culture around a single, powerful vision: to build a company that cares. He unpacks what it really takes to embed purpose, kindness and human rights advocacy into a large technology business — and how that shift created stronger engagement, trust, and profitability. He also reflects on the “shadow we cast” as leaders, the moral and business imperatives behind Kind Business, and how every organisation can align values with value creation.

Love & leadership: What “love in business” really looks like across stakeholders—and why it’s commercially smart.

From vision to practice: The pivotal choices that turned caring into a strategic operating principle.

Human rights in supply chains: Modern slavery advocacy and how it galvanised employees and partners.

Values create value: Evidence of cultural lift, customer preference, and long-term performance benefits.

The leadership shadow: How to build psychological safety and alignment without losing accountability.

ESG now: What David is seeing in boardrooms and executive teams—and where leaders get stuck (and unstuck).

Dr David Cooke is Executive Director of ESG Advisory, Adjunct Professor at UTS Business School, and author of Kind Business: How Values Create Value. He spent 35 years in the corporate sector, holding senior roles at Xerox and Canon before serving as Managing Director & Chair (ANZ) at Konica Minolta. David has chaired the UN Global Compact Network Australia and the Australian Human Rights Institute Advisory Committee, and served on multiple NFP boards. He earned a doctorate for research on building social capital through corporate social investment (recognised with Emerald Publishing’s Global Social Impact Award) and was awarded an honorary doctorate for implementing responsible business initiatives including addressing modern slavery in supply chains. He’s a noted speaker who has presented at UN conferences in New York and Geneva.

On Linkedin 

ESG Advisory Website

Kind Business book

Kind Business audiobook

In this insightful and forward-looking conversation, Shirley Chowdhary joins Carolyn Butler-Madden to explore what modern governance and leadership look like in an age defined by rapid change, technology and social transformation.

A seasoned board director, Chair and former CEO, Shirley shares her belief that good governance underpins everything— from commercial outcomes and productivity to culture and trust. She discusses the urgent need for boards to embrace diverse thinking, lived experience and inclusive leadership, and explains why the next frontier of effective governance lies in AI as a collaborative thinking partner.

Shirley also reflects on her own non-linear career across law, finance, Indigenous education and board leadership — including how her lived experience across cultures has shaped her resilience, empathy and approach to leadership.

💡 Key Themes

👤About Shirley Chowdhary

Shirley has extensive leadership experience in corporate law and governance, alongside cultural and strategic change. She is an outspoken advocate for women’s leadership and diverse voices, and is a seasoned Non-Executive Director, Chair, and former CEO with substantial international experience. Shirley has a proven record of partnering with diverse communities and driving values alignment at board and organisational levels. Throughout her work, Shirley maintains a priority on commercial returns and stewardship, whilst balancing diverse stakeholder interests and prioritising customer confidence.

She has a current research focus on how boards can adopt AI as a collaborative thinking partner to enhance judgment, improve productivity in the boardroom, and strengthen governance decision-making. Her work responds to growing expectations on directors to lead with foresight and confidence, supporting responsible innovation while maintaining trust, transparency and alignment with emerging regulatory frameworks.

Shirley is currently the Chair of Women for Election and an external member of the University of Sydney Senate People & Culture Committee. She sits on the Advisory Boards of Propel Group, an organisation empowering boards and C-Suites to ‘get social media right’ in moments that matter, and Mentor Walks, providing mentoring to over 12,000 women across Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, Canada and Dubai. 

Her previous board roles include being Deputy Chair of YMCA NSW, Chair of the Australian Institute of Architects, and non-executive director on the boards of the Australian Associated Press and Northrop Engineers.

Career highlights include being in private practice at Cleary Gottlieb in New York and Tokyo, Regional Counsel for JP Morgan Investment Management, and CEO of the GO Foundation, an NFP founded by Adam Goodes and Michael O’Loughlin of Sydney Swans fame. She lived and worked for a decade in Japan, and has worked internationally across Asia, North America, Europe and Africa in the listed, private and for-purpose sectors. She has also hosted two series of the Women’s Agenda Leadership Lessons podcast and written a biography for a WW2 POW.

In 2024, she was awarded an Honorary Doctorate of Letters from the University of Sydney for her contributions to law, business, gender equality and Indigenous education, and she was recognised as a 2019 AFR 100 Women of Influence. She is currently part of the AICD’s flagship Chair’s Mentoring program and a member of the AICD Faculty teaching Governance and director’s duties.

Connect with Shirley

Shirley's website

Shirley on Linkedin

Other Links

Women for Election website - Women for Election

In this powerful episode of the For Love & Money Podcast, Carolyn Butler-Madden speaks with Peter ter Weeme, a lifelong activist and global leader in values-based business.

Peter’s career has spanned corporate, government and nonprofit sectors across North America, Europe, Asia and Australia. From his early awareness of apartheid in the 1980s to his leadership in the social purpose movement, Peter has always believed business must be about more than profit — it must also serve people and society.

In this conversation, Peter shares how love, inclusion and courage have shaped his journey. He speaks candidly about living as a gay man, raising a child with disabilities, and navigating a terminal cancer diagnosis — experiences that have deepened his philosophy of curiosity over judgment and his perspective on leadership and legacy.

This episode is both inspirational and practical — an invitation to reflect on what it means to lead with courage, authenticity and love.

Highlights from this episode:

The role of love in business and leadership (02:09)

How apartheid sparked Peter’s early awareness of consumer activism and purpose (03:33)

Reflections on meeting Archbishop Desmond Tutu and the lessons that stayed with him (08:20)

Why shifting people’s thinking about the role of business is his proudest achievement (11:00)

Tackling complex industries with courage and curiosity (16:30)

Living with authenticity through a terminal cancer diagnosis (36:00)

The power of inclusion and belonging in workplaces (24:00)

Peter’s perspective on legacy, leadership and purpose (54:00)

Peter ter Weeme is a lifelong activist for purpose and a global leader in values-based business. His career has spanned corporate, government and nonprofit sectors across North America, Europe, Asia and Australia. With an MBA in environmental management and a deep commitment to social change, Peter has designed campaigns and initiatives addressing issues from public health and climate action to environmental conservation, diversity and inclusion.

In his most recent role, Peter serves as GM, Safer Gambling at a hospitality and entertainment company, where he leads strategy and programs focused on embedding social purpose at the heart of business. Prior to this,Peter was the Chief Social Purpose Officer & Vice President Player Experience at the British Columbia Lottery Corporation. There he had responsibility for marketing, communications, safer gambling, sustainability and stakeholder relations.

At the core of Peter’s work is his personal purpose: to give people the community and confidence required to solve the world’s social and environmental challenges. This commitment has shaped his career and continues to inspire the many people he has worked with around the globe.

👉 If you’re inspired by this conversation, subscribe to the For Love & Money Podcast and explore more resources at thecauseeffect.com.au.

On Linkedin