Naila Francis joins host Lisa Keefauver for a tender and magical conversation on the sacred nature of grief. Naila begins by acknowledging an experience of grief too often ignored—the anger that arises when the person who died was someone with whom you had a complicated or problematic relationship. For Naila, that was her dad. Together they explore their shared interest in centering aliveness in a world full of loss, the power of nature as a container for grief, and the way writing, poetry, and creativity allow us to metabolize and move our grief. Naila shares how nature, singing, and even animals have the power to hold our grief and help us see the beauty that exists alongside it. They touch on loss when the relationship was complicated, how new loss opens us back up to teachings still waiting to be learned from old grief, and so much more.

Naila Francis is a certified grief coach and death midwife, an ordained interfaith minister, a poet, and an accomplished writer. As the founder of This Hallowed Wilderness, she helps people transform their relationship to grief and loss through one-on-one coaching, workshops, presentations, rituals and community grief tending. Naila is also a co-founder of Salt Trails, a Philadelphia collective normalizing grief through community rituals, and was on the steering committee that launched the four-day inaugural Philadelphia Death & Arts Festival in 2024. For many years, she worked as a journalist, interviewing artists from all backgrounds, before finding her way to the vocations of companioning others through grief and dying after suffering several personal losses in her own life, including the death of her father. An ardent joy enthusiast, Naila believes in grieving well as a fundamental human skill that ultimately deepens our capacity for pleasure, connection and compassion.

LEARN MORE ABOUT NAILA: www.thishallowedwilderness.com

FOLLOW NAILA ON SOCIALS: @thishallowedwilderness on IG and FB.

Lisa Keefauver is an author, keynote speaker, social worker, widow, assault & cancer survivor turned grief activist on a mission to help us center aliveness in a world full of loss by reimagining the narratives of grief, one conversation at a time.

LEARN MORE ABOUT LISA: at https://lisakeefauver.com/

ACCESS GRIEF SUPPORT: https://lisakeefauver.com/support

READ BOOK: Grief is a Sneaky Bitch: An Uncensored Guide to Navigating Loss. https://bookshop.org/p/books/grief-is-a-sneaky-bitch-an-uncensored-guide-to-navigating-loss-lisa-keefauver/ffd73d6b6921e6b5?ean=9781477329306&next=t&

READ ESSAYS: AFGO with Lisa Keefauver on Substack - https://afgowithlisakeefauver.substack.com/?utm_campaign=profile_chips

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Charlene Lam joins host Lisa Keefauver for an in-depth and intimate conversation about the aspects of grief we long to explore but so rarely do in our daily life. Just as she does in her gorgeous book, Curating Grief: A Creative Guide to Choosing What to Keep After a Loved One Dies, Charlene explores what it means to curate the tangible and intangible left behind in the wake of loss. Sometimes we're working through the objects that help us access memories. She explains how decision-making about belongings often involves emotional processing and that the act of letting go can be as meaningful as holding on. Themes of bringing intention to what you’re paying attention to, the cultural context of naming and remembering, and the deep self-compassion necessary in the grieving process emerge throughout our time together. Charlene offers so much wisdom, care, and curiosity in this episode.

Charlene is a grief coach, curator, and speaker who helps grieving people engage with and curate the things that hold meaning — the belongings, stories, and symbols that connect us to those they’ve lost. Through creativity and reflection, she guides people to work tenderly with what remains, turning the stuff of loss into the stuff of meaning. Charlene is a proud Chinese-American New Yorker now based in Lisbon, helping people worldwide to make space for connection, healing, and meaning through creativity and curation.

LEARN MORE ABOUT CHARLENE: https://curatinggrief.com/

READ CURATING GRIEF: https://bookshop.org/p/books/curating-grief-a-creative-guide-to-choosing-what-to-keep-after-a-loved-one-dies-charlene-lam/dd45350a514f1c37?ean=9798991986212&next=t

FOLLOW CHARLENE ON SOCIALS: Instagram https://www.instagram.com/curating_grief/ YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@thegriefgallery LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/charclam/

Lisa Keefauver is an author, keynote speaker, social worker, widow, assault & cancer survivor turned grief activist on a mission to help us center aliveness in a world full of loss by reimagining the narratives of grief, one conversation at a time.

LEARN MORE ABOUT LISA: at https://lisakeefauver.com/

ACCESS GRIEF SUPPORT: https://lisakeefauver.com/support

READ BOOK: Grief is a Sneaky Bitch: An Uncensored Guide to Navigating Loss. https://bookshop.org/p/books/grief-is-a-sneaky-bitch-an-uncensored-guide-to-navigating-loss-lisa-keefauver/ffd73d6b6921e6b5?ean=9781477329306&next=t&

READ ESSAYS: AFGO with Lisa Keefauver on Substack - https://afgowithlisakeefauver.substack.com/?utm_campaign=profile_chips

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Nina Rodriguez joins host Lisa Keefauver to explore aspects of grief too often ignored, particularly focusing on sibling loss and the the societal stigmas surrounding addiction-related deaths. Nina shares the impact of unexpected loss, the importance of savoring life's little pleasures, her journey of reclaiming narratives and the ongoing process of living with wonderment. One of the things you won’t hear in her bio, though you will get to know about her in our conversation today, is the way she carries her grief with such care. Honoring the love she still holds for her brother Yosef, even in a world that often dismisses or diminishes deaths that result from addiction.

Nina Rodriguez is a grief-informed guide, indie podcaster, host and founder of Grief and Light, a platform and podcast dedicated to fostering a more grief-informed, hopeful world through honest conversations about life after loss. Following the sudden passing of her only sibling in 2019, Nina launched the Grief and Light podcast to shine a truthful light on grief as a lived experience to honor, tend, and integrate, rather than something to 'fix'. Now in its fourth season, the show has earned a 2025 Women Who Podcast Magazine award and ranks #18 of 100 on Goodpods in the Grief category.

Nina speaks nationally on grief, grief literacy, and post-traumatic growth, with recent engagements at the University of Miami, the 2025 Latinas in Podcasting Summit, and multiple Reimagine events. She writes the Substack 'Resting Grief Face', contributes to Get Griefy Magazine, co-authored Resilient A.F.: Stories of Resilience, Vol. 2, and completed a Grief Care Professional Certificate Program.

Based in South Florida, Nina welcomes aligned collaborations, speaking engagements, and opportunities to create spaces where grief, resilience, and humanity can be met with honesty and care. Follow her work at Grief and Light on all platforms.

LEARN MORE ABOUT NINA: https://www.griefandlight.com/

LISTEN TO HER PODCAST: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/grief-and-light/id1680003901

Lisa Keefauver is an author, keynote speaker, social worker, widow, assault & cancer survivor turned grief activist on a mission to help us center aliveness in a world full of loss by reimagining the narratives of grief, one conversation at a time.

LEARN MORE ABOUT LISA: at https://lisakeefauver.com/

ACCESS GRIEF SUPPORT: https://lisakeefauver.com/support

READ BOOK: Grief is a Sneaky Bitch: An Uncensored Guide to Navigating Loss. https://bookshop.org/p/books/grief-is-a-sneaky-bitch-an-uncensored-guide-to-navigating-loss-lisa-keefauver/ffd73d6b6921e6b5?ean=9781477329306&next=t&

READ ESSAYS: AFGO with Lisa Keefauver on Substack - https://afgowithlisakeefauver.substack.com/?utm_campaign=profile_chips

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Poet Rosemerry Wahtola Trommer joins host Lisa Keefauver for a heartfelt conversation exploring the complexities of grief, the power of poetry, and the importance of self-compassion in the grieving process. They dive deep into the role of metaphor as a way to metabolize grief, and how writing can serve as a vehicle for self-compassion. Rosemerry is in a deep and expansive relationship with grief after the death of her son Finn by suicide in 2021 followed shortly afterwards by the death of her dad. In her work, just as she does in this conversation, she offers a tender voice, big heart, appetite for play, willingness to plum the depths of love and loss, and an insistence to be honest in her use of words. She emphasizes the duality of love and loss, and the significance of community in navigating grief. The conversation culminates in a powerful reading of Rosemerry's poetry, highlighting the beauty and pain intertwined in the human experience of love and loss.

Rosemerry Wahtola Trommer has been writing and sharing a poem a day since 2006—a practice that especially nourished her after the death of her teenage son in 2021. Her daily poems can be found on her blog, A Hundred Falling Veils, or a curated version (with optional prompts) on her daily audio series, The Poetic Path, available with the Ritual app. She is the author of Exploring Poetry of Presence II: Prompts to Deepen Your Writing Practice. Her spoken-word albums include Dark Praise, which explores “endarkenment,” and Risking Love, which explores loving even when it seems impossible. Both are available anywhere you listen to music.

LEARN MORE ABOUT ROSEMERRY at www.wordwoman.com

READ HER BOOKS: Unfolding, All The Honey, and more at https://bookshop.org/beta-search?keywords=rosemerry+wahtola+trommer

SIGN UP FOR HER POETRY WORKSHOPS: at www.wordoman.com

Lisa Keefauver is an author, keynote speaker, social worker, widow, assault & cancer survivor turned grief activist on a mission to help us center aliveness in a world full of loss by reimagining the narratives of grief, one conversation at a time.

LEARN MORE ABOUT LISA: at https://lisakeefauver.com/

ACCESS GRIEF SUPPORT: https://lisakeefauver.com/support

READ BOOK: Grief is a Sneaky Bitch: An Uncensored Guide to Navigating Loss. https://bookshop.org/p/books/grief-is-a-sneaky-bitch-an-uncensored-guide-to-navigating-loss-lisa-keefauver/ffd73d6b6921e6b5?ean=9781477329306&next=t&

READ ESSAYS: AFGO with Lisa Keefauver on Substack - https://afgowithlisakeefauver.substack.com/?utm_campaign=profile_chips

grief, grief support, child loss, suicide, grieving, grieving parent, community, poet, poetry, writing, healing, unfolding, podcast

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Lisa Pahl joins host Lisa Keefauver to explore themes they're both passionate about—the sacred thresholds of life: dying, dementia, death, and grief. As a deeply experienced hospice social worker, she shares her wisdom on creating lasting memories with loved ones facing end-of-life, the role of hospice in grief support, and the dynamics that influence decision-making around hospice care. She discusses the importance of centering the wishes of the dying and offers tools to help us have the meaningful conversations we're often too afraid to start.

06:29 Understanding Grief Through Family Stories 11:56 Cultural Beliefs About Grief 14:33 Professional Insights on Grief and Loss 17:00 The Role of Hospice in Grief Support 20:01 Navigating Myths About Hospice Care 23:49 Personal Stories of Caregiving and Loss 34:51 Navigating End-of-Life Conversations 37:48 The Importance of Being Present 40:13 The Delicate Dance of Grief 44:43 Tools for Meaningful Conversations 53:47 Introducing the Dementia Deck 01:00:53 Right-Sizing Our Relationship with Death 01:05:55 Introduction to Grief Conversations 01:06:49 Exploring the Death Deck and Conversation Starters

Lisa Pahl is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker and Certified Advanced Practice Hospice and Palliative Social Worker, with over eighteen years in hospice and seven in emergency medicine. She’s passionate about increasing death literacy and helping people face illness, dying, and grief with courage and clarity. Whether it’s hosting a Death Deck Game Night or speaking to a community or professional group, she guides individuals and families to engage in meaningful conversations about end-of-life preferences—so that when the time comes, they are prepared and empowered.

LEARN MORE ABOUT LISA: https://thedeathdeck.com/

FOLLOW ON INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/thedeathdeck/?hl=en

GET DECKS AT A DISCOUNT: Lisa is offering our listeners a special discount code, so visit thedeathdeck.com and enter GSB20 at checkout to get 20% off your order. That's GSB20 when you visit thedeathdeck.com.

Lisa Keefauver is an author, keynote speaker, social worker, widow, assault & cancer survivor turned grief activist on a mission to help us center aliveness in a world full of loss by reimagining the narratives of grief, one conversation at a time.

LEARN MORE ABOUT LISA: at https://lisakeefauver.com/

ACCESS GRIEF SUPPORT: https://lisakeefauver.com/support

READ BOOK: Grief is a Sneaky Bitch: An Uncensored Guide to Navigating Loss. https://bookshop.org/p/books/grief-is-a-sneaky-bitch-an-uncensored-guide-to-navigating-loss-lisa-keefauver/ffd73d6b6921e6b5?ean=9781477329306&next=t&

READ ESSAYS: AFGO with Lisa Keefauver on Substack - https://afgowithlisakeefauver.substack.com/?utm_campaign=profile_chips

grief, grief support, legacy, connection, family, communication, intentions, emotional support, death, dying, dementia, hospice, social worker, Lisa Pahl, The Death Deck, Lisa Keefauver, Grief is a Sneaky Bitch, podcast

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Having met first in 2024 when they both spoke at End Well, Sah D’Simone joined host Lisa Keefauver for a live in-studio conversation. Together they explore a wide range of topics - the death of his mother, our tendencies to escape the pain even in the name of healing, the power of somatic embodiment, what helping without hope looks like and so much more. With heart and sometimes humor, Sah shares personal stories of loss, healing, and his varied path from supporting orphans in Indonesia, bringing hope to formerly enslaved individuals in India, educating recovering addicts in Nepal, providing spiritual care to the sick and dying at Cedars-Sinai Hospital, and empowering homeless youth in Los Angeles.

Sah D'Simone is a humanitarian, spiritual innovator, and grief educator whose work integrates Buddhism, somatic dance, art, and social justice to facilitate personal and collective healing. As founder of the Somatic Dance Institute, Sah developed the Somatic Activated Healing (SAH) Method, uniting dance, social justice, and spirituality to train instructors worldwide. His bestselling books, highly rated podcast, extensive membership platform, and transformative training programs have earned international recognition—from the cover of Sweden's Human Shift magazine to features in British Vogue, The Guardian, and Forbes.

LEARN MORE ABOUT SAH: https://michelledhord.com/

MEMBERSHIP COMMUNITY: https://practice.sahdsimone.com/membership

INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/sahdsimone/

INSIGHT TIMER: https://insighttimer.com/sahdsimone

Lisa Keefauver is an author, keynote speaker, social worker, widow, assault & cancer survivor turned grief activist on a mission to help us center aliveness in a world full of loss by reimagining the narratives of grief, one conversation at a time.

LEARN MORE ABOUT LISA: at https://lisakeefauver.com/

READ BOOK: Grief is a Sneaky Bitch: An Uncensored Guide to Navigating Loss. https://bookshop.org/p/books/grief-is-a-sneaky-bitch-an-uncensored-guide-to-navigating-loss-lisa-keefauver/ffd73d6b6921e6b5?ean=9781477329306&next=t&

READ ESSAYS: AFGO with Lisa Keefauver on Substack - https://afgowithlisakeefauver.substack.com/?utm_campaign=profile_chips

grief, grief support, healing, emotions, healer, grief support, loss, transformation, dance, somatic embodiment, Sah D’Simone, Lisa Keefauver, Grief is a Sneaky Bitch, podcast

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Guest Michelle Hord joined host Lisa Keefauver to kick off Season 7 of Grief is a Sneaky Bitch podcast. Michelle knows that behind every tragic headline are real people experiencing real pain from catastrophic loss. As she shared in our Season 5 conversation on Grief is a Sneaky Bitch podcast, soon after she filed for divorce, her husband murdered their 7-year-old daughter, Gabrielle. She faced the unbearable pain of being a bereaved mother while grappling with the shocking actions of someone she once loved. As a producer for Good Morning America, she endured it all in the public eye. In this episode, we explore her latest O Magazine essay, There Are No Words—But Here's What We Owe the Grieving Anyway, inspired by the tragic murder of Rob and Michelle Reiner.

02:24 Harmful Grief Beliefs in Society

05:05 The Myth of Fixing Grief

09:34 Invasive Questions and Grief Thieves

12:57 The Othering Effect in Grief

14:30 Protecting Your Heart in Grief

18:10 The Power of Presence

26:57 Understanding the Complexity of Grief

30:03 The Impact of Speculation on Grief

32:00 Complexity of Loss and Grief

34:44 Self-Care for Supporters of the Grieving

38:39 Understanding Resilience and Joy

44:44 Finding Joy in Art and Service

49:23 Grief in the Workplace and Organizational Culture

58:04 The Interconnectedness of Grief and Healing

Michelle Hord is a consultant, facilitator, and keynote speaker who helps leaders navigate change, strengthen psychological safety, and build resilient, inclusive workplace cultures. With more than 30 years in media leadership and corporate talent development, she brings a storyteller’s lens and an operator’s discipline to the way organizations communicate, lead, and care for their people. Her book, The Other Side of Yet, is a recipient of the 2023 Christopher Award and the 2023 Memoir Magazine Grand Prize. Michelle is the founder of Gabrielle’s Wings, a nonprofit serving elementary-aged children in historically underserved communities named in her daughter's memory.

LEARN MORE ABOUT MICHELLE: https://michelledhord.com/

READ BOOK: The Other Side of Yet https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-other-side-of-yet-finding-light-in-the-midst-of-darkness-michelle-d-hord/42ad0b5d5d0bdb6f

READ ESSAY: There are No Words - But Here's What We Owe The Grieving Anyway https://www.oprahdaily.com/entertainment/a69822675/rob-reiner-unthinkable-tragedy/

Lisa Keefauver is an author, keynote speaker, social worker, widow, assault & cancer survivor turned grief activist on a mission to help us center aliveness in a world full of loss by reimagining the narratives of grief, one conversation at a time.

LEARN MORE ABOUT LISA: at https://lisakeefauver.com/

READ BOOK: Grief is a Sneaky Bitch: An Uncensored Guide to Navigating Loss. https://bookshop.org/p/books/grief-is-a-sneaky-bitch-an-uncensored-guide-to-navigating-loss-lisa-keefauver/ffd73d6b6921e6b5?ean=9781477329306&next=t&

READ ESSAYS: AFGO with Lisa Keefauver on Substack - https://afgowithlisakeefauver.substack.com/?utm_campaign=profile_chips

#grief #loss #resilience #joy #presence #trauma #healing #community #workplace #compassion #griefsupport #griefandloss #tragedy #murder

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One doctor, one nurse, and two social workers walked into a podcast studio to explore what does it really mean to live honestly with grief, caregiving, and the hard decisions we’re never taught to navigate? Earlier this year, Lisa brought together three extraordinary voices who have spent their lives at the intersection of healing, meaning-making, and end-of-life care:

✨ Hui-wen Sato — pediatric ICU nurse, writer, and advocate for courageous conversations

✨ Lisa Pahl — hospice social worker, co-creator of The Death Deck, and champion for compassionate dialogue

✨ Dr. Sunita Puri — palliative care physician, author of That Good Night—and so much more than what she does

Together, they unpack the emotional labor behind caregiving, the barriers that keep us from talking openly about death, and the unexpected ways grief can shape us into more connected, more alive humans. If you’ve ever felt overwhelmed by caregiving, uncertain about end-of-life choices, or simply hungry for a more compassionate world, this conversation is for you.

Brand new season, Season 7, will begin in December 2025, so make sure you’re subscribed on Apple Podcast so you’re notified when the episode drops!

▶️ Learn more about our host:

Website - https://lisakeefauver.com/

Substack - https://afgowithlisakeefauver.substack.com/

▶️ Learn more about our guests:

Hui-Wen Sato - https://heartofnursing.blog/

Dr. Sunita Puri - https://sunitapuri.com/

Lisa Pahl - https://thedeathdeck.com

▶️ Learn more about our non-profit collaborators for this special episode here:

Medicinal Media - https://www.medicinalmedia.com/

Unlikely Collaborators - https://www.unlikelycollaborators.com/

➡️ Themes:

narrative therapy, grief, storytelling, healthcare, identity, palliative care, uncertainty, empathy, mental health, loss, end-of-life care, emotional toll, family dynamics, good death, healing, hospice, compassion

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Hospice Nurse Penny as she’s known to millions on Tik Tok and Instagram joins host Lisa Keefauver for this episode of Grief is a Sneaky Bitch podcast. They explore Penny’s journey into hospice care, the myths surrounding hospice, and the importance of reframing our understanding of grief and death. Penny emphasizes that hospice care is about enhancing the quality of life for patients and dispelling misconceptions about the dying process. In this conversation, Penny and Lisa explore the complexities of end-of-life care, emphasizing the importance of centering the patient, advocating for honest communication, and addressing death anxiety. They share personal stories and insights on how to navigate difficult conversations about dying, the significance of understanding cultural differences, and the need for medical professionals to engage in meaningful discussions about hospice and palliative care. The dialogue highlights the emotional challenges faced by families and caregivers while also offering hope and strategies for finding meaning in the dying process.

Penny Smith, BSN, RN is a (US) nationally certified hospice and palliative care nurse, social media influencer and author of Influencing Death, Reframing Dying for Better Living. For 20 years, Penny has worked in a variety of care settings and roles within hospice and is currently working as a hospice quality assurance nurse for an organization in Washington state.

Penny is a passionate advocate for hospice education with a mission to normalize the end-of-life process to remove the stigma and fear around hospice care, death and dying. During the pandemic she found her way to social media and discovered a unique way to utilize her death care expertise to provide education to a worldwide audience at a grassroots level. Using a variety of teaching styles including TikTok trends, dark humor, dancing and storytelling, Penny has gathered over 2 million followers across her social media platforms as @hospicenursepenny.

Lisa Keefauver is a social worker, widow, and grief activist on a mission to reimagine the narratives of grief, one conversation at a time.

Learn more at www.lisakeefauver.com.

Follow @lisakeefauvermsw on Instagram.

Listen to Grief is a Sneaky Bitch Podcast - Available on all podcast platforms.

Read Grief is a Sneaky Bitch: An Uncensored Guide to Navigating Loss. Available in bookstores and on your favorite online booksellers, including Bookshop.Org.

Watch her TEDx talk, Why Knowing More About Grief Can Make it Suck Less here

Subscribe AFGO with Lisa Keefauver on Substack here

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jennifer Hassel, author of 'Badass Grief joins host Lisa Keefauver' to discuss her journey through profound loss and the adventures that followed. Jennifer shares her early experiences with grief, the legacy of her husband Mark, and how she navigated parenting while grieving. The discussion emphasizes the importance of living fully in memory of loved ones and the challenges of finding happiness amidst sorrow. In this conversation, they explore the complexities of grief, resilience, and the journey of healing after profound loss. They discuss the importance of finding agency, the role of purpose in navigating grief, and the nonlinear path of healing. Jennifer shares her personal experiences and insights, emphasizing the need for compassion and support for those who are grieving. The conversation highlights the significance of acknowledging hard feelings while also recognizing moments of growth and hope.

·      Finding ways to remember loved ones is essential.

·      Adventures can be a form of healing after loss.

·      Finding agency in grief is crucial for healing.

·      Having a purpose, even a small one, can help navigate loss.

·      Resilience is a journey that takes time and effort.

·      Offering hope to others can be a powerful act of compassion.

·      It's important to connect with those further along in their grief journey.

·      Recognizing personal growth can be difficult but is essential.

Jennifer E. Hassel was a lawyer who then became a registered nurse after living through her husband’s terminal illness, their mutual suffering, and her own grief. Writing from what she knows through first-hand experience, she has been published in The Philadelphia Lawyer, Joyful Life Magazine, The Sun, and the local newspaper of her hometown. profession and practice of nursing. Badass Grief is her first book. You can pick up a copy at your favorite online bookseller or your local bookstore. Learn more about Jennifer at jenniferhassel.com or subscribe to her new Substack at https://substack.com/@jenniferhassel

Lisa Keefauver is a social worker, widow, and grief activist on a mission to reimagine the narratives of grief, one conversation at a time.

 Learn more at www.lisakeefauver.com.

Follow @lisakeefauvermsw on Instagram.

Listen to Grief is a Sneaky Bitch Podcast - Available on all podcast platforms.

Read Grief is a Sneaky Bitch: An Uncensored Guide to Navigating Loss. Available in bookstores and on your favorite online booksellers, including Bookshop.Org.

Watch her TEDx talk, Why Knowing More About Grief Can Make it Suck Less here

Subscribe AFGO with Lisa Keefauver on Substack here

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.