“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards Build High Performing Companies

Nolan and Kelli sit down with Lars Schmidt, Redefining Work podcaster, author, world of work content creator, and founder of Amplify Talent. Lars shares his journey from leading talent at NPR to establishing his voice as a creator, to founding his own advisory firm. Lars, Kelli and Nolan discuss the motivations for becoming a content creator, challenges in building a brand and community, and why in the age of AI HR practitioners need to be more selfish.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected]

HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—

Support HR Heretics Sponsors:

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Discover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).

Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible, and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join ElevenLabs, Replicate, Modal, and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics

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KEEP UP WITH LARS, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN

Lars: https://www.linkedin.com/in/larsschmidt/

Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/

Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/

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TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Intro

(00:26) Lars’ journey into content creation

(03:05) Transitioning to solo ventures

(05:25) Building an Empire: Writing, speaking, and more

(11:31) Importance of creating content for personal expression

(14:30) Sponsor: Metaview and Workvivo

(17:22) LinkedIn podcast partnership

(19:00) Downsides on being online

(22:23) Future of media and AI

(26:30) Handling content for HR community

(29:09) Sponsor: Attio

(30:06) Challenges and responsibilities in HR

(32:29) Importance of diverse opinions

(38:39) Navigating polarizing ideas in HR

(40:15) Amplify community and modern HR

(48:39 ) Traits of successful CPOs

(51:48) Generational shift in HR leadership

(54:34) Wrap

In this episode of HR Heretics, Rippling is banning ex-employees who work at competitors from participating in a secondary stock offering. Is this ethical or a smart business move? Kelli and Nolan discuss the pros and cons of this controversial HR policy.

*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected]

HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.

Discover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).

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KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN

Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/

Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/

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TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Introduction

(01:26) Initial Reactions and Previous Examples

(03:07) Rippling's Justification and Cynicism

(04:31) The Zero-Sum Game and Company Messaging

(06:42) Openness vs. Pettyness & Employee Value

(07:42) Future Implications and

(08:50) Sponsor Break: Workvivo

(10:25) Regulatory Implications and Cam's Argument

(11:13) A More Brutal Form of Non-Compete & First Principles

(13:00) Rippling's Perspective and Understanding the "Why"

(13:58) Conclusion: Experimentation and Openness

In this episode of HR Heretics, Kelli and Nolan engage in a heartfelt discussion with Todd Olson, CEO and founder of Pendo.

Todd shares his personal and professional journey, from his early days as a developer to his current role as CEO. He provides deep insights into leadership, his unique hiring process, and why he believes HR is essential to business success where human connection and vulnerability are prioritized.

*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected]

HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.

Discover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).

Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible, and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join ElevenLabs, Replicate, Modal, and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics

LINKS:

Pendo: https://www.pendo.io/

HR Heretics podcast with JR Rettig: Building Legendary Teams: Trust, Transition, and Quality with JR Rettig of Pendo

LINKEDIN:Todd: https://www.linkedin.com/in/toddaolsonNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Introduction

(03:00) Typecasting and the importance of being the CEO

(05:00) Co-founder dynamics at Pendo

(09:00) The CEO card and cultural decisions

(12:00) Blending human elements with leadership

(16:00) The impact of personal life on leadership

(17:13) Sponsors: Workvivo | Attio

(19:47) Todd on Elon Musk

(21:00) Building a culture of followership

(24:00) Hiring practices

(27:00) The "why" behind joining Pendo

(31:00) Interviewing Senior SDRs

(34:00) CEO involvement in offer review

(37:00) Hiring executives

(41:00) The first 90 days of an executive

(45:00) The role of HR in 2024

(50:00) Hiring a head of HR

In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan and Kelli explore the rising trend of replacing managers with coaches, examining the pros and cons of this model and its potential impact on employee development.

They also discuss the practicalities of implementing a coach-based management model, including the role of functional expertise and the need for rapid onboarding of coaches.

*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected]

HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.

Discover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).

Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible, and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join ElevenLabs, Replicate, Modal, and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics

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KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN

Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/

Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/

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TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Introduction & The Big Changes in Tech

(01:40) Tweaking the System

(02:52) The NVIDIA Model: Pros and Cons

(04:14) One-On-Ones and The Middle Ground

(6:00) The Importance of Spontaneous Communication

(07:18) Sponsor: Attio

(08:15) Skillset and Capability Considerations

(09:09) Assessing Candidates for New Environments

(11:07) The Canva Model: External Coaches

(13:00) Executive Coaching vs Functional Coaching

(13:53) Wrap

In this episode of HR Heretics, Kelli Dragovich and Nolan Church welcome Michelle Delcambre, an operating partner at Felicis (and formerly of Stripe & Databricks), to discuss company growth trajectories, and strategic HR practices around talent, comp, and exits.

Michelle shares the development of Felicis’ ‘Benchmark Your Org' tool — which you can access here — it’s a free platform utilizing data from 15,000 companies, updated monthly, to help founders benchmark organizational growth. This conversation, which is one of Nolan's favorite episodes of the year, covers common founder mistakes and offers insights around pre-negotiated exit packages, comp strategies, company attrition, and so much more.

*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected]

HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.

Discover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).

Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible, and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join ElevenLabs, Replicate, Modal, and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics

LINKS:Benchmark Your Org: https://www.felicis.com/benchmark

LINKEDIN:Michelle: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelledelcambre/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/

TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(04:30) Actually useful benchmarks for founders(07:25) What metrics do people care about now?Boomerangs(09:30) Missing people data metrics(10:30) The talent vortex(15:35) Sponsors: WorkVivo | Attio(18:15) The anxiety of the “Regrettable attrition” metric and boomerang employees(23:07) Compensation challenges in startups(25:52) Tender offers and secondary markets(28:13) Innovative solutions for employee equity(38:41) Pre-negotiated severance and employee retention(43:56) Common mistakes founders make(49:36) Wrap

In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan and Kelli dive into the devastating impact of toxic managers, featuring real stories of burnout, mental health struggles, and even suicide.

They delve into the misconduct of a Baidu executive who displayed horrific behavior towards her employees and the extreme pressures leading to suicides among investment bankers, highlighted by a tragic case at Bank of America.

From recognizing the signs of toxic management to building a strong support network, Kelli and Nolan offer actionable advice on navigating difficult workplaces and prioritizing your well-being.

*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected]

HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.

Discover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).

Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible, and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join ElevenLabs, Replicate, Modal, and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics

Related Articles:

* Top exec at Chinese search giant Baidu tells workers ‘I’m not your mom’ — then loses job

* Death of Former Green Beret (IB Associate at BofA)

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KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN

Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/

Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/

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TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Intro(00:37) Toxic Managers: Baidu Executive's Shocking Behavior(01:03) Toxic Managers: The Tragic Case of the iBanker(01:34) Kelli's Take on Toxic Management(04:26) Nolan's Perspective on Work-Life Balance(06:40) Sponsor Workvivo | Attio(09:19) The Impact of Fear-Based Leadership(11:15) Balancing Work Expectations and Employee Well-being(13:57) Encouragement and Community Support(16:17) An Element of EQ Is Necessary(19:19) Wrap

In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan and Kelli sit down with Casey Woo, a former public market investor turned 7x high-growth executive (including WeWork). He is now the founder of Operations Guild and General Partner at FOG Ventures. Casey shares eye-opening experiences from his time at WeWork and describes working with Adam Neumann, and the dynamics of rapid business scaling. They also highlight the impact of AI on business operations, the rise of the business operator, and discuss what skill-based ‘‘specialist generalists” do.

HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.

Share this with your friends, forward to your enemies. Hit subscribe now.

Discover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).

Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible, and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join ElevenLabs, Replicate, Modal, and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics

KEEP UP WITH CASEY, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN

Casey: https://www.linkedin.com/in/caseywoo/

Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/

Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/

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TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Intro

(01:14) Casey's journey and WeWork experience

(08:39) Lessons from WeWork

(14:19) Current Climate and Operators Guild

(19:48) Sponsor: WorkVivo |  Attio

(20:45) Current pace of AI development

(26:26) The Rise of the Operator

(35:03) Importance of generalists in business

(41:10) Building a Community: Lessons Learned

(44:42) Future of operators and founding businesses

(49:56) Wrap

In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan and Kelli discuss an article from Business Insider about the ongoing white-collar recession, particularly affecting those earning over $100,000 a year.

They discuss significant changes in the tech job market, including the influence of AI, global competition, and the shift from managerial roles to more individual contributor positions. The episode concludes with insights into personal fulfillment versus financial stability in career choices.

Vanguard data reveals a hiring freeze for six-figure earners, impacting tech and finance. Is this the start of a white-collar recession?

HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.

Discover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).

Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible, and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join ElevenLabs, Replicate, Modal, and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics

KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich

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TIMESTAMPS:

00:00 Introduction to the White Collar Recession

00:30 The Dichotomy of Employment Data

00:48 Challenges for High Earners

01:56 The Big Stay and Trapped in Place Economy

02:34 Industry-Specific Impacts

05:21 Global Competition and AI's Role

06:23 The Future of Tech Employment

08:34 Personal Reflections and Career Changes

08:43 Sponsor: Workvivo | Attio

11:12: First-World Work Problems

13:02: Self-Reflection and Assessment

15:34: On Gratitude on Salaries and Roles

16:11 Wrap

In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan and Kelli sit down with Nathan Tanner, an executive coach, author of The Unconquerable Leader, and former HR leader at DoorDash, Neighbor, and LinkedIn. Nathan demystifies the black box of coaching as a career path for people leaders, getting into the nitty-gritty of setting up the business, getting clients, and the economics of coaching. They also discuss the fine line between the empathy required of an HR leader, an executive coach, and a therapist.

HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.

Share this with your friends, forward to your enemies. Hit subscribe now.

This episode is brought to you by AttioAttio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join Replicate, ElevenLabs, Modal and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics

KEEP UP WITH NATHAN, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN

Nathan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nathantanner/

Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/

Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Intro

(00:58) Nathan’s journey into coaching

(02:53) Impact and philosophy of coaching

(05:25) Navigating the coach, HR leader, and client relationship

(13:08) What makes a great coach?

(15:52) Sponsor: Attio

(16:49) Assessing client’s perspectives

(21:49) Lifecycle of a coaching relationship

(24:29) Balancing revenue and client success

(26:03) Strategies and challenges of building a client base

(30:38) Economics of coaching

(35:33) Maximizing your coaching business

(39:34) Essential tools for success

(42:20) Value of transparency and resilience

(44:13) Wrap

Nolan Church breaks down what is happening over at OpenAI and what we know about three developing stories involving exec departures, equity, and transparency. Kelli is on vacation this week. He touches on:

* The departure of Ilya Sutskever, co-founder and chief scientist, along with Jan Lieke

* The journalistic investigation by Vox's Kelsey Piper, who broke the story of OpenAI's practice of requiring departing employees to sign life-long non-disclosure and non-disparagement agreements, threatening the loss of vested equity for breach

* The incident involving Scarlett Johansson being approached to voice OpenAI’s AI, without her consent, raising questions about ethical use of voice likeness in AI technologies

Nolan debriefs with lessons for HR leaders and company founders.

HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.

SPONSOR:

Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible, and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join ElevenLabs, Replicate, Modal, and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics

KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/

Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Intro

(00:47) The Big Departures: OpenAI's Executive Shake-Up

(03:31) OpenAI's Controversial NDAs

(05:12) Sponsors: Attio

(08:21) The Scarlett Johansson Voice Saga

(10:04) The Future of OpenAI and HR Lessons

(10:50) Wrap