Ibogaine Uncovered

Curious about the process of applying for ibogaine treatment? Want to know more about how staff screen potential clients? In this episode, Amanda Siebert is joined by two previous guests, Beond co-founder Talia Eisenberg and VP of clinical operations, Vianey “Nurse V” Perez, for a deep dive on Beond’s intake process, including details on medical screening, personalized care, and potential challenges or red flags. 

What we discuss:

• Why a person might seek out ibogaine treatment

• The length of time the intake process takes: if I were to inquire tomorrow, what’s the earliest I could be in treatment?

• How involved the medical team is in the intake process

• What makes someone a good candidate for ibogaine treatment? 

• What if someone has failed at other types of treatment?

• Potential red-flags

• Challenges that clients might face while in treatment

• Do people ever have to leave treatment? What’s the protocol?

Why it’s important: 

Deciding to pursue treatment with a psychedelic drug as powerful and potent as ibogaine can come with a hefty side of anxiety. The goal in creating this episode was to provide listeners with a resource that might help quell some of that stress.

This episode is a little different. Join host Amanda Siebert for an ibogaine-focused recap of the 2023 MAPS Psychedelic Science conference. This episode features audio clips from the closing ceremony featuring Norma Lotsof, and an in-person interview with David Nassim, the co-director of Blessings of the Forest.

Topics of discussion:

• three ongoing ibogaine studies and the researchers behind them

• Lucy Walker’s latest film, Of Night and Light: The Story of Iboga and Ibogaine, and the (long overdue) recognition of Norma Lotsof

• the role of veterans in relation to psychedelic policy

• efforts in Kentucky to study ibogaine for opioid use disorder

• the implications of increased ibogaine use in North America for communities in Gabon (where iboga is harvested)

• the important work of the non-profit organization Blessings of the Forest

Why it’s important: 

Amanda’s mission in attending Psychedelic Science 2023 was to learn as much as she could about where ibogaine is at, not just from a medical or political standpoint, but from a cultural one, too. Tune in to hear her relay knowledge from experts who have been critical to the support we see for ibogaine treatment and therapy, and from advocates who are doing the challenging work of ensuring that this medicine is harvested and used in a sustainable way.

Relevant Links:

• Psychedelic Science 2023
• Dr. Nolan Williams’ Pilot Study
• Dr. Jose Carlos Bouso’s Pilot Study
• Dr. Deborah Mash’s Study
• Lucy Walker on Instagram
• Of Night and Light on Deadline.com
• Veterans Exploring Treatment Solutions (VETS)
• Recent Lucid News story on Kentucky initiative by Noah Daly
• Blessings of the Forest
• ICCERS
• Indigenous Medicine Conservations Fund
  

David Bronner is the CEO – that’s Cosmic Engagement Officer – of Dr. Bronner’s, a fifth-generation soap maker, and a board member of the Multidisciplinary Association of Psychedelic Studies. At the helm of the company started by his grandfather in 1948, David is a leader in the fight for GMO labeling, industrial hemp farming in the United States, high-bar organic and fair trade standards, fair minimum wage, and drug policy reform. 

What we discuss:

• How a profound psychedelic experience took David from an apolitical college graduate and set him on the path to becoming a counter cultural thought leader

• I ask him What it means to be passionate about “the responsible integration of psychedelic medicine into  American culture” – especially within the capitalistic framework within which we exist

• Dr. Bronner being the first company in the U.S. to offer ketamine-assisted therapy as part of employee health coverage

• How David found iboga through his friend and former Navy SEAL Marcus Capone

• What iboga/ibogaine can do for the veteran population 

• Will we see the mainstreaming of ibogaine like we have with psilocybin?

• What David’s favorite integration tools are

• Parallels between the overharvesting of certain plant medicines and industrial agriculture

Why it’s important: 

Given all the ongoing evil in the world, it can be easy to feel swallowed up by capitalism – to feel stuck, hopeless, and afraid for the future. My conversation with David reminded me that even within an ill-structured system, it takes just a few people in positions of leadership – people like David and David’s father and grandfather –  to spark change and inspire more holistic business practices, and ultimately, more holistic ways of living. 

Relevant Links:

• Rolling Stone Interview (May 2023)
• New York Times Profile (Feb 2022)
• Veterans Exploring Treatment Solutions (VETS)
• Dr. Bronner’s on Instagram
• Time Magazine story about Marcus Capone’s experience with Ibogaine (April 2021)
• Blog about David Bronner’s experience with iboga
• Iboga and ibogaine safety panel featuring David Bronner (April 2020)
  

Dr. Deborah Mash is a pioneering researcher of ibogaine and one of the world’s foremost experts on the drug. She is a professor (emeritus) of neurology and molecular and cellular pharmacology at the University of Miami School of Medicine, and the founder and CEO of DemeRx, a company developing treatments for opioid use disorder. 

What we discuss:

• How Dr. Mash first became interested in ibogaine, including her connection to Howard Lotsof, an early ibogaine advocate

• The structure of the ibogaine molecule and what makes it unique from other psychedelics

• Dr. Mash’s early research: the first clinical studies of ibogaine in humans

• Noribogaine: what it is and what it does 

• Ibogaine fatalities: is everyone who takes it is at equal risk of death?

• How far have we come in terms of reframing our view of substance use disorder?

• If ibogaine was rescheduled, what could the future of treatment look like?

Why it’s important: 

In the excitement of the psychedelic renaissance, it can feel like all of this is “new.” It’s often said that there isn't enough research to support the use of ibogaine in a clinical setting, but Dr. Mash’s work is part of a growing body of evidence that proves otherwise. Reconciling her work and the stories you’ve heard on this show with the fact that ibogaine is still a Schedule I substance in the United States – meaning it has no medical value and a high potential for abuse – is hard to do. Understanding and working to change drug policy through research is a long game. We’re lucky that an expert like Dr. Mash is staying on the field.

Relevant Links:

• Dr. Mash’s research: Breaking the cycle of opioid use disorder with Ibogaine (2017)
• Noribogaine is a G-protein biased κ-opioid receptor agonist (2015
• Medication Development of Ibogaine as a Pharmacotherapy for Drug Dependence (2006)
• Ibogaine: Complex Pharmacokinetics, Concerns for Safety, and Preliminary Efficacy Measures (2006)
• Identification of a primary metabolite of ibogaine that targets serotonin transporters and elevates serotonin (1995)
• Dr. Mash’s company, DemeRx
• 1996 Interview with Dr. Deborah Mash (archived)
• Dr. Mash’s Twitter
  

Caroline Lee is a death doula, therapist, and photographer based in Oakland, California, where she is currently training to become a somatic psychologist and psychedelic therapist. She had the opportunity to receive ibogaine treatment about eight months ago. 

What we discuss:

• What is a death doula? What does it mean to be in relationship with death, and why is this an important relationship to consider?

• How Caroline envisions psychedelics fitting into our rituals around death, if laws were changed and psychedelics were available at end-of-life for people suffering from palliative anxiety

• The potential applications of ibogaine for palliative anxiety and more, from a therapist’s perspective

• Should therapists be required to take psychedelics if they want to offer psychedelic-assisted therapy?

• How ibogaine helped Caroline process the grief she experienced after a divorce that marked the end of a 16-year relationship 

• What death and the end of relationships have in common

• What Caroline’s work as a doula and a therapist have taught her about the role of grief

Why it’s important: 

You’ve heard it said before but I feel like it needs to be said more often: death is a part of life – and this conversation really showed me that talking about it openly isn’t morbid or negative or inherently bad in any way - it’s a way for us to stay more connected to the present moment. Feeling into the grief that we feel when someone dies, or when a relationship ends, expands our capacity for emotion – and using psychedelics including ibogaine can allow us to not only come to terms with those emotions, but arrive at a feeling of peace around our own mortality. 

Relevant Links:

• Caroline’s Instagram
• Caroline’s TikTok
• Caroline’s Website
• Study: Psilocybin for end-of-life anxiety
  

Troy Casey is a holistic health practitioner and life coach who has spent the last 20 years helping people to eat, move, and feel better. Known as Certified Health Nut on YouTube and Instagram, Troy is an authority on longevity and leading a healthy and sustainable lifestyle. He’s also the author of Ripped at 50: A Journey to Self Love.

What we discuss:

• Troy’s reason for undergoing ibogaine treatment. As someone who lives a very healthy lifestyle, I ask the obvious question: why might someone like Troy seek out ibogaine? 

• Social media and vulnerability: is there a difference between what people see on social media, and what’s going on in the background? 

• Troy’s goal of Finding balance in a world where so much of what we consume works against our physical and mental health

• How ibogaine has helped him “get out of his own way”

• How anger has manifested in Troy’s life, and what might be at the root of it

• Creating space for anger while learning to shed bravado and “toxic” masculinity 

Why it’s important: 

In a world where we’re being more encouraged to feel our emotions, anger is one we still have trouble with. Anger or rage issues are incredibly common, affecting about 10 percent of Americans pre-covid – and after we’ve all suffered an extended period of isolation, the feelings we’ve suppressed are increasingly coming out in violent ways. Dealing with it can be a challenge. Troy’s experience with ibogaine sheds light on the inner battles that we face, and his response to it reinforces the idea that no human is ever “finished” their healing – or as Troy puts it, no one every truly “arrives” - and having that belief can sometimes be our downfall. 

Relevant Links:

• Troy’s website
• Troy’s Instagram
• Troy’s YouTube channel
• Troy’s book, Ripped At 50: A Journey To Self Love
  

Julia Reibelt is a director at Evolve Ventures and Foundation, and a former independent consultant for MAPS, with an MBA from Columbia Business School. Julia has put her corporate background to use in the burgeoning psychedelic space. She’s also spreading the word about psychedelics on TikTok with her account, @findjules, where she has over 100k followers. 

What we discuss:

• Some of the common misconceptions that Julia’s heard from her audience about psychedelics and ibogaine 

• Julia’s previous experiences with plant medicine, which helped her to overcome diagnoses including eating disorders, C-PTSD, PMDD and depression. Did this work better prepare her for ibogaine? 

• What separates ibogaine from other plant medicines

• The “blueprint for life” given to Julia by ibogaine intended to help her maintain clarity

• How Julia manages her relationship with social media post-ibogaine

• Julia’s primary lesson from ibogaine: what is the language of the heart?

Why it’s important: 

If we believe that ibogaine is a tool that can help us achieve better mental, physical, and spiritual health, it’s important that we remember to use it in conjunction with other tools. Julia’s experience teaches us that, one) it’s never just plant medicine alone that can help us move through challenging periods in our lives, and 2) the answers we seek outside of ourselves – and often from plant medicine – exist within us. It comes down to our ability to tune in and listen to the language of our own hearts.

Relevant Links:

• Julia’s TikTok
• Julia’s Instagram
• Julia’s LinkedIn
• Sign up for Julia’s newsletter
• Eating disorder statistics via ANAD
  

Originally from the United Kingdom, Dr. Kate Stone is a creative scientist, physicist, engineer and tech founder living in Los Angeles. She is the founder and CEO at Novalia, where she and her team create interactive posters and other everyday objects that embody the magic of interactivity and connectivity. Think posters that talk, books that turn into pianos, and walls that play music. She’s also an avid adventurer, a parent, and keynote speaker.

What we discuss:

• Coming into her ibogaine treatment, Dr. Kate had almost no experience with psychedelic drugs. We talk about her fears and expectations, and how she hoped an experience with ibogaine might help with her depression and anxiety.

• Dr. Kate’s experience of witnessing the most powerful moments of her life, and the impact that has had on how she lives her life from one day to the next and where she chooses to put her focus

• Feeling low post-ibogaine, and how those experiences have given her a better understanding of what triggers her depression

• How ibogaine helped Dr. Kate feel more connected to the needs of her body

• The impact of having a digital detox and the value of not having a smart phone for a few days

Why it’s important: It’s a common misconception that a single powerful experience with a psychedelic can “get rid” of our mental health issues – but the reality is, even when we’re doing the work to feel better, we will still face highs and sometimes, earth shattering lows in life. Dr Kate’s experience illustrates that a journey with ibogaine can provide us with a better understanding of what prompts our depression and anxiety, and with a sense of compassion and resilience for when these feelings might arise again. 

Relevant Links:

• Kate’s website
• Kate’s Instagram
• Kate’s Twitter
• Kate’s company, Novalia
• Kate’s 2013 TED Talk: DJ Decks Made of… Paper
• Kate’s 2018 TED Talk: The Press Trampled On My Privacy. Here’s How I Took Back My Story
• Major depression prevalence in the United States
• Smart phone use statistics
  

Kaia Roman is a bestselling author, service-driven entrepreneur, intrepid biohacker, producer, investor and philanthropist living and working in Silicon Valley. Specializing in the fields of health, technology, and sustainability for 20 years, she has also been the marketing and PR muscle behind the launch of several businesses and organizations.

What we discuss:

• Kaia’s role in the burgeoning psychedelic industry and what drives her to try different psychedelic medicines in a space where not all involved are interested in having a personal relationship with psychedelic drugs
• Kaia’s relationship with biohacking, and how ibogaine fits into that relationship
• The similarities and differences between Kaia’s experiences with iboga and ibogaine, including how its consumed, differences in dose, and set and setting, as well as the different levels of discomfort in these experiences
• What it felt like for Kaia to meet herself as a four-year-old, and how that meeting led to a profound shift in safety, clarity, and authenticity for Kaia
• The value of pre- and post-treatment integration coaching
• How Kaia’s experience led to a sharp focus on her mission and how she can best serve

Why it’s important: Kaia’s experience with ibogaine might be outside of what you’ve come to relate to this drug. It illustrates that ibogaine can be used in more ways than helping us put an end to addictive behaviors – that it can help us connect with the parts of ourselves that feel unsafe and aid us in releasing our attachment to story lines that keep us small. It gives us an opportunity to upgrade.

Relevant Links:

• Columbia University Study on use of Psychedelics
• Third Wave: The Ultimate Guide to Ibogaine
• Kaia’s website
• Kaia’s Instagram
• Kaia’s Twitter
• Kaia’s Facebook
• Kaia’s LinkedIn
• Kaia’s book, The Joy Plan
• Kaia’s book on Amazon
• Kaia’s podcast, Psyched, on the Women in Psychedelics Network

Flor Bollini is a creative entrepreneur, strategist, and medicine carrier – and the founder of NANA Heals. She’s also trained as a Iyanifa, a priestess of the IFA divination system, and is a student of  Ayurveda, Shamanism, and Africanism. She has been receiving and serving medicine for more than 15 years, and says her recent treatment with ibogaine was the most impactful psychedelic experience she’s ever had.

What we discuss:

• Flor, a seasoned psychonaut who has had hundreds of psychedelic experiences, speaks to her profound recent experience with ibogaine in Mexico, where she took almost 1 gram of the medicine
• Flor’s approach to the medicine: to explore her light, to see herself fully, to gain an understanding of how she is perceived, to surrender, and to get out of her own way.
• The intense visions and representations Flor witnessed: full blown virtual reality at scale of divine proportion, and cartoonish characters in sophisticated theatrical outfits that felt so real, Flor confused them with nurses in the treatment room
• How these visions made Flor feel (while ibogaine may have a reputation for being “scary,” Flor says what she witnessed was more beautiful than anything she’d ever seen while sitting with other medicines)
• The important messages she received from ibogaine, and how it allowed her to embrace her femininity in a new way

Why it’s important: Ibogaine specifically and psychedelics more broadly are often discussed and used in the context of healing trauma and facing our shadow, but Flor’s experience with ibogaine shows that when used with intention, this medicine can also enable us to get more comfortable with our light.

Relevant Links:

• Flor’s website
• Flor’s company, NANA
• Flor’s Instagram
• Flor’s LinkedIn
• VICE story about Flor’s work