“They’re fighting their way through this crazy immigration system that is ineffective, illogical, and inhumane. … There’s a wideness in God’s mercy. Since when has anybody said mercy for some and not for all? … Fixing immigration is really different than blowing it up.  … This is not an impossible crisis to solve. … We need to not be divided by our political affiliations. As Christians, we stand with Christ, who critiques all human institutions.” (Alexia Salvatierra, from the episode)

The immigration crisis on US borders reveals a deeper crisis of humanity—another example of democracy at a turning point. What should be the Christian response to the current immigration crisis? How can the individuals and small communities take effective action? And who are the real people most affected by immigration policy in the United States?

In this episode, Mark Labberton welcomes theologian, pastor, and activist Alexia Salvatierra. She shares stories from the front lines of immigration justice.

Alexia Salvatierra is an ordained Lutheran pastor and a leading voice in faith-based social justice movements. She serves as assistant professor of integral mission and global transformation at Fuller Theological Seminary and has been a key organizer in immigrant advocacy for over four decades. She co-authored Faith-Rooted Organizing: Mobilizing the Church in Service to the World and works extensively with grassroots organizations to address the intersection of faith, justice, and policy.

Together they discuss:

• Personal testimonies and policy insights based on stories of real people facing the immigration system in the United States
• The challenges immigrants face under an increasingly unforgiving system
• How faith communities can respond with faithful courage and productive grief, instead of outrage
• The global nature of the immigration, refugee, and foreign-aid crisis
• The width of God’s mercy and the effectiveness of immigration and refugee public policy
• A call to action for Christians to become “gracious disrupters” and stand with the vulnerable

Helpful Links and Resources

• World Relief – Christian organization supporting refugees
• Lutheran Social Services – Organization falsely accused of money laundering

Show Notes

• Immigration policy and the church’s response
• The impact of executive orders on deportation and asylum seekers
• Faith-based advocacy for immigrants
• The role of Latino churches in immigrant support
• How Christians can move from outrage to courageous action
• Immigration reform
• Faith-based activism
• ICE raids on churches
• Asylum seekers and deportation
• Christian response to immigration crisis
• Latino churches and advocacy
• Political fear versus Christian courage
• The role of the church in justice
• Broken immigration system
• Policy changes under different administrations

Immigration Today: Stories and Case Studies

• An Assemblies of God pastor from Guatemala, facing deportation despite three qualifying cases for legal residency—South Los Angeles
• “ That’s what we mean by a broken system, is there’s all these little wrinkles in the system that don’t work.”
• Detention at a deportation facility called Adelanto
• ”They’re fighting their way through this crazy immigration system that is ineffective, illogical, and inhumane.”
• Asylum, ankle bracelets, and “legitimate fear”
• “ They said he was a criminal because he had entered without authorization twenty years before when he was a teenager.”
• ICE agents attempting to detain a man during a worship service
• ICE and “sensitive locations”—Is a church an ICE “sensitive location”?
• Hispanic Theological Education Association
• Latino Christian National Network
• “That arrest has  provoked intense fear. …  they’re terrified to go to church.”
• The impact of anti-immigration policies on church attendance and spiritual care
• A desperate mother of a special-needs child preparing legal custody papers in case of deportation
• The economic and moral contradictions in mass deportation efforts
• “Cities that have municipal sanctuary laws are threatened with suit by the new administration.”

The Global Immigration and Refugee Crisis

• “All around the world immigration is in crisis.”
• 1980 Refugee Act
• “All the countries who signed the Universal Declaration of Human Rights have to take refugees.”
• The concept of “Refoulment”—”which means that you’re sending someone back to die.”
• “Not only are all refugee programs stopped, but current refugees are not getting the support that they need.”
• “ Costa Rica is a five-million-person  country and they’ve taken two million refugees.”

American Immigration During the Trump Administration

• Elon Musk saying “ that Lutheran Social Services was a money-laundering machine.”
• Current administration’s policies as “ bold, unilateral, and so comprehensive and unnuanced”
• “If the Trump administration is successful at deporting ten million people, many of whom have been here over twenty years, thirty years, um, where will we find the labor that we need?”

Policy and Legal Discussion

• The end of Deferred Deportation under the Trump and Biden administrations
• Executive orders eliminating prioritization of deportation
• The freezing of USAID and refugee support programs
• “All foreign aid has always been strategic. It’s never not.”
• “Global warming refugees”
• “The current president of Venezuela loves gangs.”
• “Fixing immigration is really different than blowing it up. …  this is not an impossible crisis to solve.”
• The bipartisan immigration bill that Trump advised Republicans to block
• Historical immigration policies and their effectiveness
• “Policy does make a difference.”
• Objection to open borders: What about mercy for Americans? A false dichotomy. God’s mercy is wide.
• “We have a number of believers in Congress who are acting out of fear right now and not out of faith.”

Call to Action

• How faith communities can support immigrants
• “Immigrant churches are taking the brunt of this.”
• Why outrage doesn’t help the process
• Ways to engage with legislators and advocate for reform
• The importance of standing with immigrant churches in this moment
• Supporting organizations like World Relief and Lutheran Social Services
• “The bulk of the people in the United States, the majority, have not had to grieve on this level. Not had to grieve with this intensity, with this constancy. Our spiritual muscles are weak—in terms of knowing how to grieve and keep going and trust God. ‘Though he slay me, I will worship him.’”
• “Encourage literally means ‘to get more courage.’ You know, to give courage, to get courage. And so I just would want everybody to stop being outraged and start being courageous.”

Production Credits

Conversing is produced and distributed in partnership with Comment magazine and Fuller Seminary.