From bypassing Congress to try to fund a wall on the U.S.-Mexico border, to accusing administration officials of treason, is Donald Trump America’s national emergency? Michelle sees authoritarianism while Ross thinks the real threat to American democracy is more competent presidents abusing their expanded constitutional authority. Then, Mara Gay of the Times editorial board disagrees with David about whether Amazon's abrupt headquarters departure from New York is really such a victory for cities against corporations.

For background reading on this episode, visit nytimes.com/theargument.

Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.