As the Rocky movies demonstrate, hero myths can create cults. Joe talks about the homage paid to the Rocky statue on the steps of the Philadelphia Museum of Art and relates it to the cult that arose from the tale of Ulysses’ Odyssey. There are many examples of cult formation around fascinating narratives; Joe and Jon touch on Star Wars, The Matrix, the Arthurian legends, The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail, as well as The Da Vinci Code, showing how stories easily become doctrines believed by many. 

Links:

Joe’s art page

More about the Rocky Statue in Philadelphia

Note from Spike: You don't have to spend a fortune on plane tickets to see the great artworks of humanity. Many of the major world museums now have virtual tours. Here's a modest sample, in no particular order: 

Rijksmuseum - Amsterdam, Netherlands

The Louvre - Paris, France

Van Gogh Museum - Amsterdam, Netherlands

The British Museum – London, UK

Tate Britain - London, UK

The Museum of Modern Art - New York, US

National Museum of Modern and Contemporary Art, Korea - Gwacheon-si, South Korea 

Museo Del Prado – Madrid, Spain

Hoyt talks about his recently aired documentary, "Bring Me the Beauties," and the perplexity that two of the contributors continue to believe that the cult leader really was from another planet, and that they simply failed to understand his message. A fascinating insight into cult membership and the mesmerizing effect of cult creators. 

Links:

Watch "Bring Me the Beauties"

more on the Bear Fedio index

Ira Chaleff's "Blink, Think, Choice, Voice"

And Spike's song that she wrote to teach kids the concept 

And Spike's own YouTube channel

This is part 2 of 2; you can find part 1 here

In part 2 of this conversation, Jon and Amir talk about L. Ron Hubbard, hypnosis, belief, and why we wall ourselves into our personal silos when our beliefs are challenged, rather than having the courage to consider the evidence. 

Links:

See Yuval Laor's work here

See John Hunter's work here

Here is a link to the documentary, Let There Be Light

Note for Americans and other non-UK people: 

Speakers' Corner in London is a designated area for free speech and public debate, located in the north-east corner of Hyde Park near Marble Arch. It has been a site for public speaking since the mid-1800s, allowing anyone to speak on any lawful subject, especially on Sundays.

Amir left Scientology staff in January 2026 and has many questions. Is Scientology 20th-century Buddhism, and was Hubbard the Buddha who will take everyone to Nirvana? What is the difference between a sociopath and a psychopath? Why did Tom Cruise jump on Oprah’s couch? What is a “mystery sandwich” ? 

These and many more questions may or may not be answered! 

#scientologycult 

links: 

learn more about the Mendota Study

buy Jon's latest book, If Scientology Ruled the World

And listen to a free sample here

And here's Spike's YouTube

Many young men are attracted to what some call 'toxic masculinity,' which rejects the equality of women and preaches aggression. This includes 'incels' or involuntary celibates. Most of these young men feel rejected, so they want to build their muscles and assert their maleness. Steve and Jon talk about the failure to teach our kids how to deal with rejection, how to communicate well, and how to resolve difficulties in relationships. 

Romantic rejection often leads to membership in an authoritarian cult and the acceptance of socially dangerous beliefs. Steve and Jon discuss ways to approach this problem. 

Links: 

here's a pretty good breakdown of Humpty Dumpty

More about the Milgram Experiment

Zimbardo's Heroic Imagination Project

more on the Mendota Study

buy Jon's latest book, If Scientology Ruled the World

And listen to a free sample here

And his translation of the Tao Te Ching

And here's Spike's YouTube

Joe is a leading cult specialist with decades of experience. Today's discussion kicks off with a discussion of the origins of much of the 'New Age' in the Russian Empire - Blavatsky, Gurdjieff, Ouspensky, and Roerich were among the founders of our contemporary cultic groups. Throughout history, some of the most powerful and influential people have been believers in the occult. Abe Lincoln held a seance in an attempt to contact a deceased child. William James, the founder of modern psychology, also created both the British and the American Societies for Psychical Research (along with Mark Twain). The denial of death and the search for meaning are at the heart of the human inquiry. Joe and Jon make positive reflections on these topics.

Buy Jon's latest book, If Scientology Ruled the World

And listen to a free sample

Felicia came to international fame when she helped to convict Larry Ray for sixy years. The documentary Stolen Youth shows how she was lured into the Sarah Lawrence cult after two of her siblings had joined. After asking Jon a couple of questions about Tom Cruise and Scientology, Felicia describes her recruitment while she was interning as a doctor at the University of South California. Felicia had full scholarships to both Harvard and Columbia. She testified against Ray at his trial after almost ten years in his cult. Her recovery is nothing short of amazing. She now works helping other survivors, consulting to litigation and working against human trafficking.See the documentary, "Stolen Youth"and learn more about the Bear-Fedio indexbuy Jon's latest book, If Scientology Ruled the World And listen to a free sample

we project the virtues we lack into heroes. When we forget that our heroes have feet of clay, they become idols and we fall into adolescent awe of their abilities. Abilities that we have projected into them. Cult leaders are often deeply insecure people who fuel themselves with the adulation of their followers.

Hoyt asks if any of Epstein's thousands of clients will ever see trial for their crimes; if politicians will always submit to the culture of hypocrisy. A conversation about human predators and the need to accept responsibility for our actions; about the failure of our educational system to teach good communication and ways to establish good relationships which has left people prey to the manosphere.

In part two of this two-part talk, recent Scientology defector Amir Essalhi talks with Jon about Jon's books, Scientology, its founder, L. Ron Hubbard, and its current leader, David Miscavige. Amir describes Scientology leader David Miscavige's premature aging and shares examples of his cruelty and greed. 

NOTE: this is part two of a two-part talk. 

Part one is here

Links: 

Jon’s papers:
Never Believe a Hypnotist
The Total Freedom Trap
Possible Origins of Dianetics and Scientology

Amir left Scientology in January. He's now read Jon's books, Opening Our Minds and Let's Sell These People a Piece of Blue Sky, and has a few questions about Scientology, its founder, L. Ron Hubbard, and its current leader, David Miscavige. Amir shares examples of the cruelty and greed he witnessed while in. Jon also talks about Ron Hubbard's cancellation of Dianetics because it is hypnotic and the psychological and physical enslavement that Scientology usually leads to. 

NOTE: this is part one of a two-part talk. Stay tuned next week for part two!

Links: Jon’s other published novels: 

Voodoo Child (slight return)
Halcyon Daze

and his papers: 

Never Believe a Hypnotist
The Total Freedom Trap
Possible Origins of Dianetics and Scientology