Rugby player Jonny Wilkinson was once driven by a quest for perfection, and an obsession with becoming the best player in the world. Now though, he’s learning to be content with who he is in the present.

In this chat, Jonny and Fearne explore the idea that sometimes our own imagination is what’s limiting our idea of success before we’ve even begun, and they wonder if our understanding of ‘ambition’ needs to be reframed to be more inclusive of the journey, not just the final outcome.

Listen to Jonny’s podcast, ‘I Am’, wherever you’re listening to this right now.

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