Jordan Harbinger is the co-founder of The Art of Charm, a renowned social dynamics expert and host of the top-rated Art of Charm podcast, where he interviews leading entrepreneurs, celebrities, authors and experts on psychology, human performance, behavioral economics and success..

Harbinger helped develop one of the leading self-development programs in the world, co-created the Mastering Social Interaction 30‑day challenge, leveraging his expertise in social capital, relationship-building and authentic rapport.

A former U.S. State Department employee and Wall Street attorney who speaks five languages, Jordan has traveled extensively and found himself (on one occasion, not entirely voluntarily) in the employ various government agencies and NGOs overseas, traveled through war zones, led several trips through North Korea, and been kidnapped—twice.

Underneath it all is a through-line that took some unraveling during our conversation. Harbinger, it turns out, is obsessed with decoding complex systems. His fascination led him first into technology and eventually into maybe the most challenging system of all; human social interaction. His pursuit of answers has led him to both big discoveries, and profound moments of personal and professional reckoning. That's what we explore in today's conversation.

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