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Katie Robbert on Ideal Customer Profiles, The 5Ps, and more!
In this Marketing Over Coffee:
Learn about the Trust Insights ICP, Google Keep, True Crime, and more!
Direct Link to File
Brought to you by our sponsors: Wix Studio and NetSuite
Since the last interview….
Remodeling the house
Changes in the market from analytics to AI
Working with the 5P Framework
Applying AI with a change management focus
10:26 – Wix Studio is the web platform that gives agencies and enterprises the end-to-end efficiency to design, develop and deliver exactly the way they want to!
The Trust Insights Ideal Customer Profiles (ICP)
It’s not enough to create the profile, the model needs to tell you what to do next
NetSuite is the number one cloud financial system, bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, HR, into ONE platform, and ONE source of truth.
Using the ICP to create an interactive model
Katie will have sessions at MAICON and Marketing Profs B2B
Using Google Keep for wrangling ideas
Smart Speakers in the home
Peloton and Strava updates
You Like it Darker by Stephen King
Gen AI Course Updates done: Special Discount on the newest Generative AI for Marketing Course! Hands on excercises to put AI to work for you! USE CODE MOC now!
Join John, Chris and Katie on threads, or on LinkedIn: Chris, John, and Katie
Sign up for the Marketing Over Coffee Newsletter to get early access!
Our theme song is Mellow G by Fonkmasters.
Machine-Generated Transcript
What follows is an AI-generated transcript. The transcript may contain errors and is not a substitute for listening to the episode.
Speaker 1 – 00:07
This is marketing over coffee with Christopher Penn and John Wall.
John Wall – 00:14
Good morning. Welcome to marketing over coffee. I’m John Wall. Today, Chris actually ran through some analytics and said, “Hey, one of the most popular guests generating the most traffic is Katie Robbert, CEO of Trust Insights.” And we’re like, “Well, we actually talk to her every day, so getting her back as a guest, I not be a difficult thing.” But welcome back.
Katie Robbert – 00:34
Well, thanks. It’s funny when we were sort of talking about the data, because, Chris looks at all of the information, he was like, “Well, you were the most popular guest.” I’m like, “Well, duh, I’m hilarious. Of course I was the most popular.”
John Wall – 00:47
Of course, this is part of the show.
Katie Robbert – 00:49
But it is funny because, when you sort of position it as marketing over coffee, being a separate entity from Trust Insights, and you then needing to, like, “Are you available to be a guest on the podcast?” I’m like, “John, we literally talk ten hours a day, every day. Sure. We could just make it another meeting, it’s fine.” But it is funny to think about it, like, so now I have to switch contexts because you’re not John Wall, head of business development and Trust Insights. You’re John Wall, host of marketing over coffee.
John Wall – 01:19
Yeah, I know. That is one thing that I’ve always fallen back to, and this is why it’s so great with the listeners of the show, is because that is just the guy that I am. I am not acting or pretending. I hear of all these people that are doing podcasts and stuff, and people want to talk to them and they hate it because it’s like, “Well, my whole life isn’t talking about movies or whatever,” but, yeah, this is just the stuff we do every day. So I don’t have to do any work changing hats, at least.
Katie Robbert – 01:45
Well, and I was like, “Oh, thank goodness. I don’t really have to prepare anything.” We prepared for the show, but because we work so closely every day, the preparation was so minimal because we’re like, “Do you want to talk about this and this? So that’s everything we have going on. Great, let’s do it.”
John Wall – 02:02
Yeah. There’s not that ramp of me having to spend, like, an hour figuring out, what the guest does, what kind of trouble they’ve been in, and how many indictments and all that kind of stuff.
Katie Robbert – 02:13
Yeah, I like to keep that stuff private.
John Wall – 02:17
Off the charts. So when he said that stat came in, I was like, “I wonder what’s driving that traffic?” And my first thought was like, “Oh, I bet because you’re a CEO, you have people searching you all the time. There’s people pitching you all kinds of stuff. So you get searched regularly. And I was like, I bet the interview comes up high on your organic.” And so I dug in, and as I was going through, I was like, “Oh, wow. It actually doesn’t hit on the first two pages. But then for me, of course, this is different for everybody, but it came up as first hit on the third page.” And I was like, “Oh, that’s interesting. When people are starting to dig a little bit deeper, it’s the first one that comes up.” And actually, we’ve talked about Martech a bunch over the past couple of weeks. You’ve got a bunch of Martech links up there that’s actually doing some organic SEO for you. Why? Martech never gives us organic links. Well, that’s a personal axe that I grind all the time. But, it’s okay because I steal all their stories pretty much for weekly updates for marketing over coffee. So I have to, cut them a little, cut Kim Davis a little bit of slack over there, but.
All right, so let’s get into the stuff, though. Well, I guess first we should talk about, just kind of what’s happened since we’ve talked last, because it has, it’s been over a year since I’ve just had you as a guest. We had you on the year end wrap up and stuff like that. But how’s everything going?
Katie Robbert – 03:31
Well, since then, I’ve renovated half my house, which has been, as someone who works with me all day long, you get to hear the lamenting of the contractors here again, “I don’t have a working sink, so I’m washing dishes in my bathtub.” Like, all of that good stuff. Business-wise, I feel like we’ve maybe just within the past couple of months at least, Chris and I have settled more into our roles in terms of who’s doing what because of how the market is changing and what their needs are. And so while, yes, everyone is talking about AI, they’re really focused on, like, “But what does that mean for the business? What does that mean for the people?” And that’s where I get to shine. I get to step a little bit out in front versus Chris because he’s focused on the tech. That’s sort of a big thing.
I’ve been really lazily toying with the idea, sort of half starting, half not doing it, of writing a book about the five P’s. And I keep telling people about it, hoping that it’s going to, make me more accountable, but it’s not. I keep finding other things that need to get done before I write a book about the five P’s, which is interesting because I write about the framework all the time, but yet when I actually sit down to write a book about it, I’m like, “Oh goodness, I don’t know what I’m going to say. I have nothing to say about this topic.” And yet I could probably pull over 100 posts from the newsletter where I talk about it. So, yeah, mostly getting past that sort of mental barrier of book versus post. I’m sure people have thoughts on what that is and how to break through it, but that’s sort of where I’m at with it.
John Wall – 05:18
Yeah, and that’s a really tough one because it’s just, it’s so much work to do the damn book and really business books, it is kind of just like, okay, here’s my $30 business card. It does give you respect and proves that you know what you’re talking about in that space. But setting aside the 5 million hour it takes to crank that thing out is just huge pain and just a lot of extra grief. One of the big things that I wanted to talk with you and kick around is the fact that Chris is always giving us the weekly update. Every week. It’s like, “Okay, chat GPT. The new version is out today and it’s better.” And he has the whole scoreboard of here’s which one is the new model to go with for whatever your task is of the day. But you’ve actually been doing a bunch of stuff with our clients as far as working to apply it at the front lines, like right at the, point of contact where you’ve got the work that somebody’s doing, reviewing it, and then figuring out how AI gets applied, like how to make them more effective and figure out what’s going on. So, like, what’s been happening on that front? Just give us the 50,000 foot view first. Am I even correct in the way I threw that out?
Katie Robbert – 06:27
You are. Because the thing that’s interesting about AI today is, yes, it’s another piece of software, but where you have a CRM and it serves one purpose, like, it’s very clear what a CRM does or a marketing automation tool. Like you seek out those pieces of software to do a specific thing. Generative AI, while it is a software, does a lot of different things, and it does a lot of things that humans can do. And so integrating a new piece of software into your tech stack, there’s some new processes that you have to develop, there’s some training, there’s some learning that has to happen. And then you just do the thing. It sort of becomes like it runs in the background and it becomes like a source of something you go to.
Whereas with generative AI, people are freaking out because, “Well, it can do what I can do,” or at least that’s sort of like the perception. And so I’ve been working a lot with leadership teams to help them figure out, “Well, what are the problems you’re trying to solve? What are the internal processes in your company look like today? And where can we find thoughtful places to insert generative AI based on the problems you’re trying to solve?”
So one of the things that I see a lot is companies saying, “We need to start using generative AI or we need to have AI powered services” without a real consideration of is that really a problem that they have? So the clients I’ve been working with have been really digging into figuring out, “What is it that we want to do with our business?” So and so it could be, “I want to increase my profit margin from 17% to 23% so that I’m more attractive to investors,” or “I want to find efficiencies in how we do client work so that we can take on more clients.” Those are real solvable problems. Saying, “I want to use AI,” that’s just a statement. That’s not a problem that you’re solving. That’s just “I want something I want to do.” And so that’s the way that I’ve been working with clients, and it’s been really effective because sometimes AI isn’t the solution, and that’s a big thing for a lot of people. They’re like, “Well, wait a second. I thought AI could do this,” and it’s like, “Well, it might be able to, but that’s not what you need right now.”
To go back to your initial question of what’s different, I’ve been volunteering at an animal shelter for almost a year now, and I’ve also gotten to know the executive director of the shelter very well. And a lot of what she’s tasked with are things that need could use a lot of automation. Sometimes AI is the solution. And so she’ll come to me, she’ll email me or text me and say, “Hey, I saw this AI thing and I want to see if we can use it.” So I have to sort of reverse the conversation and say, “Well, what is the problem you’re trying to solve?” And so far, 90% of the problems she’s trying to solve, AI isn’t the solution. It’s just a different type of process development or some other technology that exists that would solve the problem. And so that’s what I’m doing is I’m working with leadership teams to really dig into the problems they’re trying to solve and then figuring out, “Is AI the solution?” And I feel like that is sort of going against the grain of what everybody else is doing because everybody’s pitching AI, everybody’s an AI expert. Okay, that’s great, but AI might not be the solution.
John Wall – 10:23
Yeah, there’s a bunch of stuff we can dig into on that. Okay, we’ve just got to take a minute. We want to thank Wix Studio for their support of marketing over coffee. I’ve only got one minute to tell you about Wix Studio, the web platform for agencies and enterprises. Whether you manage ten sites or 1000, here are a few things you can do from start to finish in a minute or less on studio: Set up native marketing integrations in a click. Reuse templates, widgets and sections across sites. Create a seamless handover by adding tutorials, guides and more to client dashboards. Work on the same canvas at the same time with all your team members and leverage best in class SEO defaults like server side rendering, an automated structured data markup across all your Wix sites. Time’s up, but the list keeps going. Step into Wix Studio and see for yourself. Check it out over at wixstudio.com. And we thank them for their support of the show.
Okay, so another big part of this that I wanted to talk about, you’ve talked about, kind of digging in and applying at specific points and figuring out, even if AI is even right, never mind just showing up and waiting to do it. But you’ve been doing a lot of stuff with ideal customer profiles. Give us the latest on that.
Katie Robbert – 11:29
Yeah, so I’m actually really like, I get really excited about it because I never considered myself the technologist on the team. And so I challenged myself to really work with generative AI to see if I could build out. So I had this idea that we all need to know who our ideal customer profile is. And so it’s a question that we get asked a lot, and for a while we stumbled over it and sort of like made jokes of like, “Oh, well, it’s anyone who has money.” It’s like, “Well, that’s not really helpful in terms of trying to figure out who do we bring into our audience? Who do we bring into our pipeline?”
So I started playing around with the notion of building a large language model specifically to analyze your data, our data, your data, and say, “This is the ICP.” So this started with, we did this on the Trust Insights live stream a couple of months ago, and we said, “How do we build out the ideal customer profile?” And then Chris and I sort of went offline, going back and forth and saying, “Well, what if we had this data? What if we had this data?” And so that wasn’t building the model, that was just sort of seeing, “Is it possible to get to answer?” And we’re able to get to one.
And I feel like it was really a really good start, because then I could sort of segment out our ICP into the individual job roles and figure out, “What are their pain points, what keeps them up at night? How do they make decisions?” So then what I wanted to do was take it a step further and automate it, scale it, make it a repeatable process.
So Chris and I had sort of talked about, “What is the minimal amount of data somebody would need to give to us in order for this to work?” And so we’re able to come up with a very short list of data points that somebody would provide to us, and we would supplement the rest of it on our side. I don’t want to give away everything that we do. Where I’m at with it now is I’ve been beta testing it with some of our closer partners, people who already know who their ideal customer profile is because I wanted to test it against what was already known. So you sort of have the control in the experiment. Theirs is the control, ours is the experiment. And what I’ve been able to find out is the system that we built has really good alignment with what people already think of as their ideal customer profile.
What ours does is it digs deeper into pain points, strategies, action. So it tells you the basics, the demographics, the firmographics, that kind of stuff, which that’s not the hard part. The hard part is, “What do I do with this information?” So our differentiator is that you also are going to get a very specific action plan based on the services that you offer. So I’m actually. I’m really excited about it. Something I feel like I could talk about for a long time, and I feel like I already have been.
John Wall – 14:33
Yeah, well, and that’s great. You were going right where I wanted to ask more about is people can do these things. That’s great. But, okay, so then when you have it and it sounds like it’s not, you just hand it over and then talk about figuring out what to do next. There’s actually already some stuff baked in there. Like, “Here’s the five things you should be doing,” like what kind of stuff will work and what, what can they do once they have this?
Katie Robbert – 14:54
The biggest criticism I have with analysis is there’s no “So what?” And that’s honestly why we called the live stream “So what?” Because I get really frustrated with people who just sort of like, talk about something and then don’t give me like, “And then here’s what to do about it. Or here’s your next step.” And I really wanted to make sure that if we’re developing a service or a product where I can tell you with, a very small amount of data, “Here’s your ideal customer profile.” I also then want you to walk away with, “And here’s the five things I need to do to get it in the pipeline, to realign my services to who my customer profile is, to write content about their, that tells them that I can address their pain points.”
One of the things that I try to capture right up front is “What is your purpose for using an ideal customer profile?” And so the beta tester that I was working with, her purpose was to reach more of her prospects on LinkedIn and also to have sort of like a blueprint to work with an outside sales company. So basically, like a company that would set up meetings to get people in the pipeline, but they need to know who they’re looking for, they need to know what they’re doing. And so her existing ICP was really good, but it was for when people were already in the pipeline. It’s “Here’s how to close these deals.” She was missing that upfront part of “Here’s how to find these people in the first place.” I was able to take that data, put together an action plan, and said, “Here’s how you find these people. Now you can hand this over to someone else and they can go find them for you.”
John Wall – 16:39
Yeah, that’s great. Anybody doing that kind of outsource services to be able to hand off a finished report, that just would save them a ton of time and frustration, especially because it’s data based. It’s better than just having four random people in the company write their story. So once they have this ICP, you’re giving them some to-dos to jump on right away. How about, where else does it go from there as far as can they do additional stuff? Should they rerun the thing? Are there other areas where they can start to put that thing to use in other ways?
Katie Robbert – 17:10
The way that I’m thinking about it and the way that I’m building it is that there’s a few different things that you can do with it. One is so what the person gets, the person who purchases an Icpenna, they get two things. They get two PDFs. One is the write up report of like, “Here’s everything that is included with your ICP, here’s everything you should know.” And then there’s just sort of like a walkthrough deck that sort of summarizes everything. You can take that information, throw it into a large language model, and say, “This is my ICP. I have some questions,” and that’s going to be good enough. So it’s a little bit more of a manual way to interact with your ICP.
Or we can build you, we can sort of have a done-for-you service where we can build your ICP based on this criteria that you can then interact with and chat with. And so we did that with our ideal customer profile data. We built a custom large language model called the Trust Insights Ideal customer profile. And just about everything I do or write that’s going to go public to our audience, to our subscribers. I’ll run it past our large language model ICP first and say, “Will this resonate with our ICP? What have I missed? What can I add to make it even more aligned with what our ICP wants or with addressing the pain points or whatever the thing is that I’m doing?” And it always says, “Well, you could do this or you could do this,” or “It’s really closely aligned to address the following things.”
And I’m like, “Okay, great. I know our ICP inside and out, but I always like to have that gut check because things move so quickly that it’s easy to miss something or maybe there’s something I haven’t thought of. And so I really want to build this for people who both know their ICP, but also for those who aren’t sure, it’s going to be valuable for both sets of people.
John Wall – 19:14
Yeah, and that’s really cool. I’ve already seen you. You’ve been using a bunch of stuff with that as far as. Because I, as a marketer, we all deal with this where it’s, you write up some copy for the offer or whatever it is, and then you send it out to the team. Well, none of those people are actually ignorant customers. We all know what the products already are. We already know how they should be talked about. And in reality, you should be running it against somebody who doesn’t know any of the stuff that we know.
So having that ICP where you can say, “Hey, read this like you’re the person in this ICP.” And to get some feedback like that, it’s, yeah, I found that to be really useful. And I hate to say it kind of always is. Like, “Buddy, you’re going way too fast. You need to slow this down.” Because it’s, you’re just kind of throwing off more stuff than anybody even cares about. Like, we get excited about this stuff, too, because we’re with it all the time. Whereas, the prospect has 50 million other things. You have to kind of bring them up to speed before they get into it and running.
Katie Robbert – 20:08
If you know who your ideal customer is, how powerful would your marketing plans be? How powerful would all of those different strategies be? Because they are tied directly to, “This is my ideal customer. This is who I’m trying to reach. This is exactly what they want, how they want it, when they want it. These are their pain points. This is how they make decisions. This is what’s in their tech stack. Put together a channel marketing strategy for me. Okay, great.” And then you can say, “I have these limitations. I’m not doing paid ads. What else can I do?” And be like, “Okay, here’s what else you can do to reach your ideal customer.” So it really becomes the foundation for all of your marketing.
John Wall – 20:53
All right. And of course, we are getting to Q three, Q four. This is the big slew of all the events coming rolling down upon us. We get ready for the year-end thing. You’ve got stuff coming up with both Profs B and with Macon. Can you give us a little preview? Or where’s your head on that kind of stuff? Are you ready with what you want to talk about? Are you still kicking around topics? What’s going on?
Katie Robbert – 21:14
I am absolutely not ready, but I don’t really have a choice because the dates are coming up fast. I know what I’m talking about at both events. So at Macon, I’m speaking about managing the people who manage the machines. It’s basically talking about a lot of what I’m doing with our clients right now is thrusting AI upon your team isn’t really going to be successful. But if you really work with the people to figure out what they want, what they need, but also marry that with the business goals, you’ll have a higher success rate of adoption of AI. And so I walk through some different techniques, some different case studies of where it went wrong, how it could have been fixed. So that’s going to be my Macon talk.
And then Profs B two B is going to be a similar talk. It’s actually a riff on a talk I gave at Social Media Marketing World earlier this year, which really focuses on the five P framework, which are: purpose, people, process, platform, and performance, and making sure that you’re prepping your team for your readiness for AI. So they’re very similar. Just for me, I always focus on the people first.
John Wall – 22:25
I had on the rundown tools and other stuff. You mentioned that you’ve been using Google Keep, which I have not touched at all. What’s going on there?
Katie Robbert – 22:32
So I don’t know how many people experience this. Probably a lot. I get ideas when I am just about to fall asleep, where I’m nowhere near my laptop, where I have no desire to, like, type something up. And for me, probably because I’m an Android user, not an iPhone user, I know, don’t give me crap about it. I can pick up my phone and yell at it and say, “Google, take a note.” And it will take a note into Google Keep. And I can sort of ramble whatever the idea is and it saves it as its own individual file. So that in the morning I’d be like, “Oh yeah, that is a good idea.” Or “I don’t know what I was thinking.”
And I find that I get inspired or I get ideas at the least opportune times, which is when I’m riding my bike or when I’m volunteering at the shelter and have no equipment near me. But if I have my phone, I can ask it to take a voice note and it goes right into Google Keep. So what I have now is about a few dozen files in Google Keep that I can then copy and paste into ChatGPT because there is a ChatGPT model and start iterating with it and say, “Help me make sense of this.” And so I actually built out my Macon talk with just a running string of notes in Google Keep. And now I’ve put it into ChatGPT and it built the outline for my talk. I’m actually really happy with it because it’s not something I would have put together necessarily, but because it’s my notes and the GPT is built off of my writing and my thinking. It is actually something I would have put together. I just couldn’t get my brain to think about it that way. So I’m really liking Google Keep for just string of thought that I have at any given time.
John Wall – 24:21
Yeah. Not, not missing stuff. I cannot live with it because, it’s like you said, and there’s a bunch of studies about this how, like, when you’re showering or taking a walk or doing these other things, your brain is finally free to do some creative thought, and that’s when that stuff shows up.
Okay, so we got, like, doesn’t have to be lightning round, but there’s a bunch of stuff that I, would always run by you first one, of course, is you jumped on the smart speaker thing. We’re always audio freaks here and interested in what’s going on with music. So how has that experiment gone and what’s going on there?
Katie Robbert – 24:52
It’s actually gone really well. I was hope I tried. I was thinking about it first to surprise my husband with it because he’s always wanted surround sound in the house, but it turns out he also has zero interest in using a smart home or a device that listens to you. So I’ve been using it, but I’ve really been enjoying it because, as I mentioned, we had our kitchen renovated, and now I can sort of have really good quality sound throughout my entire house when I’m cleaning, reorganizing, cooking, whatever I’m doing, which is something I was missing before, so I’m really enjoying it for that. I have. I’ve tried digging into, the skills and the tasks, but I just, I haven’t quite gone that deep with it. I have a couple of things I wish it would do, but it turns out that it doesn’t quite do those things yet. So I have to. I have to be a little more patient.
John Wall – 25:37
No, that’s. I was watching something. Somebody was talking about a review, how they test the speaker by asking him then this quote, which was in some TV commercial, like, five years ago, and it still doesn’t work on, like, 90% of the devices. It’s just all baloney that’s not going. But that’s. Ooh, that’s cool. Whole house music. Yeah. That’s a wonderful thing.
The only one out there is smart lights. I haven’t found much other stuff that works, but if you have lights that you can turn on, and off via the smart speaker. That’s pretty cool. That’s good to run with.
Of course, Peloton and Strava. That’s always the go-to for all of us who always need motivation and a reminder to keep going. How’s all that going?
Katie Robbert – 26:24
It’s good. Thankfully for me, Peloton wasn’t a passing Covid thing. I was actually using it this morning. I’ve just started one of the strength programs, which is kicking my butt. I was telling you earlier, like, my arms are actually still shaking from an hour ago finishing my workout. It’s actually been. It’s like a really nice marriage of the smart home and the Peloton because, when I’m doing some of the programs, you don’t really have a choice in the instructor or the music, and you’re not going to like everybody. There’s definitely some instructors that I do not care for. And so when I have to take their classes, I’ll just cover up the screen with a towel so I don’t have to see their stupid faces. And then I’ll put on my own music from my smart home, which I have one right next to the bike, and listen to that versus whatever crappy EDM music they’ve programmed, because they always program the same five stupid EDM songs.
But, yeah, so I’ve actually, the smart home’s been really great for that because there’s some really good playlists that people have built that have, like, a certain beats per minute. And if you’re doing, like, a speed class, I’m someone who always has to ride to the beat, so it, like, sort of helps you keep pace versus the instructor saying, “Okay, so this one is 60 beats per minute, but I want you to ride 90 beats per minute.” It’s like, “Well, then why wouldn’t you just give me a song that has the correct beats per minute so I don’t have to, like, fight against the beat?” So, long story longer, Peloton’s been great. I’m still riding it. I’m still riding it with my bestie, Jenny Dietrich. She still kicks my butt on the bike every day.
John Wall – 27:58
That’s good. That. I hadn’t thought about the smart speaker being able to DJ for that as you go. It’s completely hands off, which is very cool. That takes care of things. All right, so as we go out the door, recommendations for our listeners as far as book, movie, music, anything you’ve run across recently that you share and worth doing.
Katie Robbert – 28:18
Yeah, I just finished Stephen King’s *If It Bleeds*. It’s a collection of short stories. It was really good. And now I’ve just started. It’s an older one. It’s a different collection of short stories. It’s his *Skeleton Crew*.
John Wall – 28:34
Oh, yeah.
Katie Robbert – 28:35
And I’ve never read the story that was turned into the movie *The Mist*. And now I’m reading it now that I, I know what happens in the story, but reading it as it was written, I’m like, “Oh, man, this is such a good story.” Like, and terrifying and like, nothing gory has happened, but yet, it’s that psychological terror. And I just like, I like that stuff because I feel like it really just, it gives my brain a break from, like, business stuff. And obviously I’m always watching, like, every 2020 true crime thing. I just started watching the new season of *Unsolved Mysteries*. I think there was just, I just was watching an episode this morning as I was, writing stuff up for work about a random severed head that was found. This is my life. This is what I do. So definitely recommend the Stephen King short stories. Definitely recommend any of the true crime stuff that’s on any streaming network if you find it. I haven’t found any good movies in a while.
John Wall – 29:33
That’s changing a lot. Well, of course we’re not in season here. We will have to do a pre-Christmas hallmark rom-com list for the rest of the world.
Katie Robbert – 29:45
I love them.
John Wall – 29:45
That whole the rest of the movie thing has just gotten so weird over the past couple of years. Okay, if people want to find out more about ICP or speaking gigs or whatever, what’s the best way to get in touch?
Katie Robbert – 29:55
Trust Insights website. So trustinsights.ai, contact. And unironically, John, they’re going to get ahold of you first.
John Wall – 30:03
You have to go through me. The gatekeeper will decide if you are worthy or not.
Katie Robbert – 30:08
But yeah, I mean, follow. If you want to connect with me on LinkedIn, I’m KatieRobbert. It’s just my name. But if you want to talk about it, learn more about it, maybe see if it’s the right fit for you, then definitely just hit up our contact form on the website. You know, I’m in the process of rolling out the ICP service, so you’re not going to find it on our website, but it does exist. It’s ready to go. It’s production ready. I just have to get our website developer, aka me, to put it on our website as well. So I just have to find the time to do that. But it’ll get there, but it’s ready. Go buy it.
John Wall – 30:41
All right, that sounds good. That’ll wrap it up for us for today. Katie, thanks for joining us.
Katie Robbert – 30:46
You are welcome. I always love these conversations because I just, I love just getting to sit down and talk to you, John, because, we’re always talking about business and business. But then when we start talking about things like, I don’t know, like nineties R&B or our love of, really crappy Christmas movies, the conversation just gets so broad and just so much more fun. So thank you for having me.
John Wall – 31:10
All right. That sounds great. Yes. It’s just too bad we’re curse of the working class. We’ve got to get the job done before we get to talk about the cool stuff. So that will do it for this week. So until next week, enjoy the coffee.
Speaker 1 – 31:22
You’ve been listening to marketing over coffee. Christopher Penn blogs at christopherspenn.com. Read more from John J. Wall at JW5150.com. The marketing over coffee theme song is called Melo G by funk Masters and you can find it at musicalley from Mevio. Or follow the link in our show notes.
The post Katie Robbert on Ideal Customer Profiles, The 5Ps, and more! appeared first on Marketing Over Coffee Marketing Podcast.
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By John Wall and Christopher Penn
4.5
245245 ratings
In this Marketing Over Coffee:
Learn about the Trust Insights ICP, Google Keep, True Crime, and more!
Direct Link to File
Brought to you by our sponsors: Wix Studio and NetSuite
Since the last interview….
Remodeling the house
Changes in the market from analytics to AI
Working with the 5P Framework
Applying AI with a change management focus
10:26 – Wix Studio is the web platform that gives agencies and enterprises the end-to-end efficiency to design, develop and deliver exactly the way they want to!
The Trust Insights Ideal Customer Profiles (ICP)
It’s not enough to create the profile, the model needs to tell you what to do next
NetSuite is the number one cloud financial system, bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, HR, into ONE platform, and ONE source of truth.
Using the ICP to create an interactive model
Katie will have sessions at MAICON and Marketing Profs B2B
Using Google Keep for wrangling ideas
Smart Speakers in the home
Peloton and Strava updates
You Like it Darker by Stephen King
Gen AI Course Updates done: Special Discount on the newest Generative AI for Marketing Course! Hands on excercises to put AI to work for you! USE CODE MOC now!
Join John, Chris and Katie on threads, or on LinkedIn: Chris, John, and Katie
Sign up for the Marketing Over Coffee Newsletter to get early access!
Our theme song is Mellow G by Fonkmasters.
Machine-Generated Transcript
What follows is an AI-generated transcript. The transcript may contain errors and is not a substitute for listening to the episode.
Speaker 1 – 00:07
This is marketing over coffee with Christopher Penn and John Wall.
John Wall – 00:14
Good morning. Welcome to marketing over coffee. I’m John Wall. Today, Chris actually ran through some analytics and said, “Hey, one of the most popular guests generating the most traffic is Katie Robbert, CEO of Trust Insights.” And we’re like, “Well, we actually talk to her every day, so getting her back as a guest, I not be a difficult thing.” But welcome back.
Katie Robbert – 00:34
Well, thanks. It’s funny when we were sort of talking about the data, because, Chris looks at all of the information, he was like, “Well, you were the most popular guest.” I’m like, “Well, duh, I’m hilarious. Of course I was the most popular.”
John Wall – 00:47
Of course, this is part of the show.
Katie Robbert – 00:49
But it is funny because, when you sort of position it as marketing over coffee, being a separate entity from Trust Insights, and you then needing to, like, “Are you available to be a guest on the podcast?” I’m like, “John, we literally talk ten hours a day, every day. Sure. We could just make it another meeting, it’s fine.” But it is funny to think about it, like, so now I have to switch contexts because you’re not John Wall, head of business development and Trust Insights. You’re John Wall, host of marketing over coffee.
John Wall – 01:19
Yeah, I know. That is one thing that I’ve always fallen back to, and this is why it’s so great with the listeners of the show, is because that is just the guy that I am. I am not acting or pretending. I hear of all these people that are doing podcasts and stuff, and people want to talk to them and they hate it because it’s like, “Well, my whole life isn’t talking about movies or whatever,” but, yeah, this is just the stuff we do every day. So I don’t have to do any work changing hats, at least.
Katie Robbert – 01:45
Well, and I was like, “Oh, thank goodness. I don’t really have to prepare anything.” We prepared for the show, but because we work so closely every day, the preparation was so minimal because we’re like, “Do you want to talk about this and this? So that’s everything we have going on. Great, let’s do it.”
John Wall – 02:02
Yeah. There’s not that ramp of me having to spend, like, an hour figuring out, what the guest does, what kind of trouble they’ve been in, and how many indictments and all that kind of stuff.
Katie Robbert – 02:13
Yeah, I like to keep that stuff private.
John Wall – 02:17
Off the charts. So when he said that stat came in, I was like, “I wonder what’s driving that traffic?” And my first thought was like, “Oh, I bet because you’re a CEO, you have people searching you all the time. There’s people pitching you all kinds of stuff. So you get searched regularly. And I was like, I bet the interview comes up high on your organic.” And so I dug in, and as I was going through, I was like, “Oh, wow. It actually doesn’t hit on the first two pages. But then for me, of course, this is different for everybody, but it came up as first hit on the third page.” And I was like, “Oh, that’s interesting. When people are starting to dig a little bit deeper, it’s the first one that comes up.” And actually, we’ve talked about Martech a bunch over the past couple of weeks. You’ve got a bunch of Martech links up there that’s actually doing some organic SEO for you. Why? Martech never gives us organic links. Well, that’s a personal axe that I grind all the time. But, it’s okay because I steal all their stories pretty much for weekly updates for marketing over coffee. So I have to, cut them a little, cut Kim Davis a little bit of slack over there, but.
All right, so let’s get into the stuff, though. Well, I guess first we should talk about, just kind of what’s happened since we’ve talked last, because it has, it’s been over a year since I’ve just had you as a guest. We had you on the year end wrap up and stuff like that. But how’s everything going?
Katie Robbert – 03:31
Well, since then, I’ve renovated half my house, which has been, as someone who works with me all day long, you get to hear the lamenting of the contractors here again, “I don’t have a working sink, so I’m washing dishes in my bathtub.” Like, all of that good stuff. Business-wise, I feel like we’ve maybe just within the past couple of months at least, Chris and I have settled more into our roles in terms of who’s doing what because of how the market is changing and what their needs are. And so while, yes, everyone is talking about AI, they’re really focused on, like, “But what does that mean for the business? What does that mean for the people?” And that’s where I get to shine. I get to step a little bit out in front versus Chris because he’s focused on the tech. That’s sort of a big thing.
I’ve been really lazily toying with the idea, sort of half starting, half not doing it, of writing a book about the five P’s. And I keep telling people about it, hoping that it’s going to, make me more accountable, but it’s not. I keep finding other things that need to get done before I write a book about the five P’s, which is interesting because I write about the framework all the time, but yet when I actually sit down to write a book about it, I’m like, “Oh goodness, I don’t know what I’m going to say. I have nothing to say about this topic.” And yet I could probably pull over 100 posts from the newsletter where I talk about it. So, yeah, mostly getting past that sort of mental barrier of book versus post. I’m sure people have thoughts on what that is and how to break through it, but that’s sort of where I’m at with it.
John Wall – 05:18
Yeah, and that’s a really tough one because it’s just, it’s so much work to do the damn book and really business books, it is kind of just like, okay, here’s my $30 business card. It does give you respect and proves that you know what you’re talking about in that space. But setting aside the 5 million hour it takes to crank that thing out is just huge pain and just a lot of extra grief. One of the big things that I wanted to talk with you and kick around is the fact that Chris is always giving us the weekly update. Every week. It’s like, “Okay, chat GPT. The new version is out today and it’s better.” And he has the whole scoreboard of here’s which one is the new model to go with for whatever your task is of the day. But you’ve actually been doing a bunch of stuff with our clients as far as working to apply it at the front lines, like right at the, point of contact where you’ve got the work that somebody’s doing, reviewing it, and then figuring out how AI gets applied, like how to make them more effective and figure out what’s going on. So, like, what’s been happening on that front? Just give us the 50,000 foot view first. Am I even correct in the way I threw that out?
Katie Robbert – 06:27
You are. Because the thing that’s interesting about AI today is, yes, it’s another piece of software, but where you have a CRM and it serves one purpose, like, it’s very clear what a CRM does or a marketing automation tool. Like you seek out those pieces of software to do a specific thing. Generative AI, while it is a software, does a lot of different things, and it does a lot of things that humans can do. And so integrating a new piece of software into your tech stack, there’s some new processes that you have to develop, there’s some training, there’s some learning that has to happen. And then you just do the thing. It sort of becomes like it runs in the background and it becomes like a source of something you go to.
Whereas with generative AI, people are freaking out because, “Well, it can do what I can do,” or at least that’s sort of like the perception. And so I’ve been working a lot with leadership teams to help them figure out, “Well, what are the problems you’re trying to solve? What are the internal processes in your company look like today? And where can we find thoughtful places to insert generative AI based on the problems you’re trying to solve?”
So one of the things that I see a lot is companies saying, “We need to start using generative AI or we need to have AI powered services” without a real consideration of is that really a problem that they have? So the clients I’ve been working with have been really digging into figuring out, “What is it that we want to do with our business?” So and so it could be, “I want to increase my profit margin from 17% to 23% so that I’m more attractive to investors,” or “I want to find efficiencies in how we do client work so that we can take on more clients.” Those are real solvable problems. Saying, “I want to use AI,” that’s just a statement. That’s not a problem that you’re solving. That’s just “I want something I want to do.” And so that’s the way that I’ve been working with clients, and it’s been really effective because sometimes AI isn’t the solution, and that’s a big thing for a lot of people. They’re like, “Well, wait a second. I thought AI could do this,” and it’s like, “Well, it might be able to, but that’s not what you need right now.”
To go back to your initial question of what’s different, I’ve been volunteering at an animal shelter for almost a year now, and I’ve also gotten to know the executive director of the shelter very well. And a lot of what she’s tasked with are things that need could use a lot of automation. Sometimes AI is the solution. And so she’ll come to me, she’ll email me or text me and say, “Hey, I saw this AI thing and I want to see if we can use it.” So I have to sort of reverse the conversation and say, “Well, what is the problem you’re trying to solve?” And so far, 90% of the problems she’s trying to solve, AI isn’t the solution. It’s just a different type of process development or some other technology that exists that would solve the problem. And so that’s what I’m doing is I’m working with leadership teams to really dig into the problems they’re trying to solve and then figuring out, “Is AI the solution?” And I feel like that is sort of going against the grain of what everybody else is doing because everybody’s pitching AI, everybody’s an AI expert. Okay, that’s great, but AI might not be the solution.
John Wall – 10:23
Yeah, there’s a bunch of stuff we can dig into on that. Okay, we’ve just got to take a minute. We want to thank Wix Studio for their support of marketing over coffee. I’ve only got one minute to tell you about Wix Studio, the web platform for agencies and enterprises. Whether you manage ten sites or 1000, here are a few things you can do from start to finish in a minute or less on studio: Set up native marketing integrations in a click. Reuse templates, widgets and sections across sites. Create a seamless handover by adding tutorials, guides and more to client dashboards. Work on the same canvas at the same time with all your team members and leverage best in class SEO defaults like server side rendering, an automated structured data markup across all your Wix sites. Time’s up, but the list keeps going. Step into Wix Studio and see for yourself. Check it out over at wixstudio.com. And we thank them for their support of the show.
Okay, so another big part of this that I wanted to talk about, you’ve talked about, kind of digging in and applying at specific points and figuring out, even if AI is even right, never mind just showing up and waiting to do it. But you’ve been doing a lot of stuff with ideal customer profiles. Give us the latest on that.
Katie Robbert – 11:29
Yeah, so I’m actually really like, I get really excited about it because I never considered myself the technologist on the team. And so I challenged myself to really work with generative AI to see if I could build out. So I had this idea that we all need to know who our ideal customer profile is. And so it’s a question that we get asked a lot, and for a while we stumbled over it and sort of like made jokes of like, “Oh, well, it’s anyone who has money.” It’s like, “Well, that’s not really helpful in terms of trying to figure out who do we bring into our audience? Who do we bring into our pipeline?”
So I started playing around with the notion of building a large language model specifically to analyze your data, our data, your data, and say, “This is the ICP.” So this started with, we did this on the Trust Insights live stream a couple of months ago, and we said, “How do we build out the ideal customer profile?” And then Chris and I sort of went offline, going back and forth and saying, “Well, what if we had this data? What if we had this data?” And so that wasn’t building the model, that was just sort of seeing, “Is it possible to get to answer?” And we’re able to get to one.
And I feel like it was really a really good start, because then I could sort of segment out our ICP into the individual job roles and figure out, “What are their pain points, what keeps them up at night? How do they make decisions?” So then what I wanted to do was take it a step further and automate it, scale it, make it a repeatable process.
So Chris and I had sort of talked about, “What is the minimal amount of data somebody would need to give to us in order for this to work?” And so we’re able to come up with a very short list of data points that somebody would provide to us, and we would supplement the rest of it on our side. I don’t want to give away everything that we do. Where I’m at with it now is I’ve been beta testing it with some of our closer partners, people who already know who their ideal customer profile is because I wanted to test it against what was already known. So you sort of have the control in the experiment. Theirs is the control, ours is the experiment. And what I’ve been able to find out is the system that we built has really good alignment with what people already think of as their ideal customer profile.
What ours does is it digs deeper into pain points, strategies, action. So it tells you the basics, the demographics, the firmographics, that kind of stuff, which that’s not the hard part. The hard part is, “What do I do with this information?” So our differentiator is that you also are going to get a very specific action plan based on the services that you offer. So I’m actually. I’m really excited about it. Something I feel like I could talk about for a long time, and I feel like I already have been.
John Wall – 14:33
Yeah, well, and that’s great. You were going right where I wanted to ask more about is people can do these things. That’s great. But, okay, so then when you have it and it sounds like it’s not, you just hand it over and then talk about figuring out what to do next. There’s actually already some stuff baked in there. Like, “Here’s the five things you should be doing,” like what kind of stuff will work and what, what can they do once they have this?
Katie Robbert – 14:54
The biggest criticism I have with analysis is there’s no “So what?” And that’s honestly why we called the live stream “So what?” Because I get really frustrated with people who just sort of like, talk about something and then don’t give me like, “And then here’s what to do about it. Or here’s your next step.” And I really wanted to make sure that if we’re developing a service or a product where I can tell you with, a very small amount of data, “Here’s your ideal customer profile.” I also then want you to walk away with, “And here’s the five things I need to do to get it in the pipeline, to realign my services to who my customer profile is, to write content about their, that tells them that I can address their pain points.”
One of the things that I try to capture right up front is “What is your purpose for using an ideal customer profile?” And so the beta tester that I was working with, her purpose was to reach more of her prospects on LinkedIn and also to have sort of like a blueprint to work with an outside sales company. So basically, like a company that would set up meetings to get people in the pipeline, but they need to know who they’re looking for, they need to know what they’re doing. And so her existing ICP was really good, but it was for when people were already in the pipeline. It’s “Here’s how to close these deals.” She was missing that upfront part of “Here’s how to find these people in the first place.” I was able to take that data, put together an action plan, and said, “Here’s how you find these people. Now you can hand this over to someone else and they can go find them for you.”
John Wall – 16:39
Yeah, that’s great. Anybody doing that kind of outsource services to be able to hand off a finished report, that just would save them a ton of time and frustration, especially because it’s data based. It’s better than just having four random people in the company write their story. So once they have this ICP, you’re giving them some to-dos to jump on right away. How about, where else does it go from there as far as can they do additional stuff? Should they rerun the thing? Are there other areas where they can start to put that thing to use in other ways?
Katie Robbert – 17:10
The way that I’m thinking about it and the way that I’m building it is that there’s a few different things that you can do with it. One is so what the person gets, the person who purchases an Icpenna, they get two things. They get two PDFs. One is the write up report of like, “Here’s everything that is included with your ICP, here’s everything you should know.” And then there’s just sort of like a walkthrough deck that sort of summarizes everything. You can take that information, throw it into a large language model, and say, “This is my ICP. I have some questions,” and that’s going to be good enough. So it’s a little bit more of a manual way to interact with your ICP.
Or we can build you, we can sort of have a done-for-you service where we can build your ICP based on this criteria that you can then interact with and chat with. And so we did that with our ideal customer profile data. We built a custom large language model called the Trust Insights Ideal customer profile. And just about everything I do or write that’s going to go public to our audience, to our subscribers. I’ll run it past our large language model ICP first and say, “Will this resonate with our ICP? What have I missed? What can I add to make it even more aligned with what our ICP wants or with addressing the pain points or whatever the thing is that I’m doing?” And it always says, “Well, you could do this or you could do this,” or “It’s really closely aligned to address the following things.”
And I’m like, “Okay, great. I know our ICP inside and out, but I always like to have that gut check because things move so quickly that it’s easy to miss something or maybe there’s something I haven’t thought of. And so I really want to build this for people who both know their ICP, but also for those who aren’t sure, it’s going to be valuable for both sets of people.
John Wall – 19:14
Yeah, and that’s really cool. I’ve already seen you. You’ve been using a bunch of stuff with that as far as. Because I, as a marketer, we all deal with this where it’s, you write up some copy for the offer or whatever it is, and then you send it out to the team. Well, none of those people are actually ignorant customers. We all know what the products already are. We already know how they should be talked about. And in reality, you should be running it against somebody who doesn’t know any of the stuff that we know.
So having that ICP where you can say, “Hey, read this like you’re the person in this ICP.” And to get some feedback like that, it’s, yeah, I found that to be really useful. And I hate to say it kind of always is. Like, “Buddy, you’re going way too fast. You need to slow this down.” Because it’s, you’re just kind of throwing off more stuff than anybody even cares about. Like, we get excited about this stuff, too, because we’re with it all the time. Whereas, the prospect has 50 million other things. You have to kind of bring them up to speed before they get into it and running.
Katie Robbert – 20:08
If you know who your ideal customer is, how powerful would your marketing plans be? How powerful would all of those different strategies be? Because they are tied directly to, “This is my ideal customer. This is who I’m trying to reach. This is exactly what they want, how they want it, when they want it. These are their pain points. This is how they make decisions. This is what’s in their tech stack. Put together a channel marketing strategy for me. Okay, great.” And then you can say, “I have these limitations. I’m not doing paid ads. What else can I do?” And be like, “Okay, here’s what else you can do to reach your ideal customer.” So it really becomes the foundation for all of your marketing.
John Wall – 20:53
All right. And of course, we are getting to Q three, Q four. This is the big slew of all the events coming rolling down upon us. We get ready for the year-end thing. You’ve got stuff coming up with both Profs B and with Macon. Can you give us a little preview? Or where’s your head on that kind of stuff? Are you ready with what you want to talk about? Are you still kicking around topics? What’s going on?
Katie Robbert – 21:14
I am absolutely not ready, but I don’t really have a choice because the dates are coming up fast. I know what I’m talking about at both events. So at Macon, I’m speaking about managing the people who manage the machines. It’s basically talking about a lot of what I’m doing with our clients right now is thrusting AI upon your team isn’t really going to be successful. But if you really work with the people to figure out what they want, what they need, but also marry that with the business goals, you’ll have a higher success rate of adoption of AI. And so I walk through some different techniques, some different case studies of where it went wrong, how it could have been fixed. So that’s going to be my Macon talk.
And then Profs B two B is going to be a similar talk. It’s actually a riff on a talk I gave at Social Media Marketing World earlier this year, which really focuses on the five P framework, which are: purpose, people, process, platform, and performance, and making sure that you’re prepping your team for your readiness for AI. So they’re very similar. Just for me, I always focus on the people first.
John Wall – 22:25
I had on the rundown tools and other stuff. You mentioned that you’ve been using Google Keep, which I have not touched at all. What’s going on there?
Katie Robbert – 22:32
So I don’t know how many people experience this. Probably a lot. I get ideas when I am just about to fall asleep, where I’m nowhere near my laptop, where I have no desire to, like, type something up. And for me, probably because I’m an Android user, not an iPhone user, I know, don’t give me crap about it. I can pick up my phone and yell at it and say, “Google, take a note.” And it will take a note into Google Keep. And I can sort of ramble whatever the idea is and it saves it as its own individual file. So that in the morning I’d be like, “Oh yeah, that is a good idea.” Or “I don’t know what I was thinking.”
And I find that I get inspired or I get ideas at the least opportune times, which is when I’m riding my bike or when I’m volunteering at the shelter and have no equipment near me. But if I have my phone, I can ask it to take a voice note and it goes right into Google Keep. So what I have now is about a few dozen files in Google Keep that I can then copy and paste into ChatGPT because there is a ChatGPT model and start iterating with it and say, “Help me make sense of this.” And so I actually built out my Macon talk with just a running string of notes in Google Keep. And now I’ve put it into ChatGPT and it built the outline for my talk. I’m actually really happy with it because it’s not something I would have put together necessarily, but because it’s my notes and the GPT is built off of my writing and my thinking. It is actually something I would have put together. I just couldn’t get my brain to think about it that way. So I’m really liking Google Keep for just string of thought that I have at any given time.
John Wall – 24:21
Yeah. Not, not missing stuff. I cannot live with it because, it’s like you said, and there’s a bunch of studies about this how, like, when you’re showering or taking a walk or doing these other things, your brain is finally free to do some creative thought, and that’s when that stuff shows up.
Okay, so we got, like, doesn’t have to be lightning round, but there’s a bunch of stuff that I, would always run by you first one, of course, is you jumped on the smart speaker thing. We’re always audio freaks here and interested in what’s going on with music. So how has that experiment gone and what’s going on there?
Katie Robbert – 24:52
It’s actually gone really well. I was hope I tried. I was thinking about it first to surprise my husband with it because he’s always wanted surround sound in the house, but it turns out he also has zero interest in using a smart home or a device that listens to you. So I’ve been using it, but I’ve really been enjoying it because, as I mentioned, we had our kitchen renovated, and now I can sort of have really good quality sound throughout my entire house when I’m cleaning, reorganizing, cooking, whatever I’m doing, which is something I was missing before, so I’m really enjoying it for that. I have. I’ve tried digging into, the skills and the tasks, but I just, I haven’t quite gone that deep with it. I have a couple of things I wish it would do, but it turns out that it doesn’t quite do those things yet. So I have to. I have to be a little more patient.
John Wall – 25:37
No, that’s. I was watching something. Somebody was talking about a review, how they test the speaker by asking him then this quote, which was in some TV commercial, like, five years ago, and it still doesn’t work on, like, 90% of the devices. It’s just all baloney that’s not going. But that’s. Ooh, that’s cool. Whole house music. Yeah. That’s a wonderful thing.
The only one out there is smart lights. I haven’t found much other stuff that works, but if you have lights that you can turn on, and off via the smart speaker. That’s pretty cool. That’s good to run with.
Of course, Peloton and Strava. That’s always the go-to for all of us who always need motivation and a reminder to keep going. How’s all that going?
Katie Robbert – 26:24
It’s good. Thankfully for me, Peloton wasn’t a passing Covid thing. I was actually using it this morning. I’ve just started one of the strength programs, which is kicking my butt. I was telling you earlier, like, my arms are actually still shaking from an hour ago finishing my workout. It’s actually been. It’s like a really nice marriage of the smart home and the Peloton because, when I’m doing some of the programs, you don’t really have a choice in the instructor or the music, and you’re not going to like everybody. There’s definitely some instructors that I do not care for. And so when I have to take their classes, I’ll just cover up the screen with a towel so I don’t have to see their stupid faces. And then I’ll put on my own music from my smart home, which I have one right next to the bike, and listen to that versus whatever crappy EDM music they’ve programmed, because they always program the same five stupid EDM songs.
But, yeah, so I’ve actually, the smart home’s been really great for that because there’s some really good playlists that people have built that have, like, a certain beats per minute. And if you’re doing, like, a speed class, I’m someone who always has to ride to the beat, so it, like, sort of helps you keep pace versus the instructor saying, “Okay, so this one is 60 beats per minute, but I want you to ride 90 beats per minute.” It’s like, “Well, then why wouldn’t you just give me a song that has the correct beats per minute so I don’t have to, like, fight against the beat?” So, long story longer, Peloton’s been great. I’m still riding it. I’m still riding it with my bestie, Jenny Dietrich. She still kicks my butt on the bike every day.
John Wall – 27:58
That’s good. That. I hadn’t thought about the smart speaker being able to DJ for that as you go. It’s completely hands off, which is very cool. That takes care of things. All right, so as we go out the door, recommendations for our listeners as far as book, movie, music, anything you’ve run across recently that you share and worth doing.
Katie Robbert – 28:18
Yeah, I just finished Stephen King’s *If It Bleeds*. It’s a collection of short stories. It was really good. And now I’ve just started. It’s an older one. It’s a different collection of short stories. It’s his *Skeleton Crew*.
John Wall – 28:34
Oh, yeah.
Katie Robbert – 28:35
And I’ve never read the story that was turned into the movie *The Mist*. And now I’m reading it now that I, I know what happens in the story, but reading it as it was written, I’m like, “Oh, man, this is such a good story.” Like, and terrifying and like, nothing gory has happened, but yet, it’s that psychological terror. And I just like, I like that stuff because I feel like it really just, it gives my brain a break from, like, business stuff. And obviously I’m always watching, like, every 2020 true crime thing. I just started watching the new season of *Unsolved Mysteries*. I think there was just, I just was watching an episode this morning as I was, writing stuff up for work about a random severed head that was found. This is my life. This is what I do. So definitely recommend the Stephen King short stories. Definitely recommend any of the true crime stuff that’s on any streaming network if you find it. I haven’t found any good movies in a while.
John Wall – 29:33
That’s changing a lot. Well, of course we’re not in season here. We will have to do a pre-Christmas hallmark rom-com list for the rest of the world.
Katie Robbert – 29:45
I love them.
John Wall – 29:45
That whole the rest of the movie thing has just gotten so weird over the past couple of years. Okay, if people want to find out more about ICP or speaking gigs or whatever, what’s the best way to get in touch?
Katie Robbert – 29:55
Trust Insights website. So trustinsights.ai, contact. And unironically, John, they’re going to get ahold of you first.
John Wall – 30:03
You have to go through me. The gatekeeper will decide if you are worthy or not.
Katie Robbert – 30:08
But yeah, I mean, follow. If you want to connect with me on LinkedIn, I’m KatieRobbert. It’s just my name. But if you want to talk about it, learn more about it, maybe see if it’s the right fit for you, then definitely just hit up our contact form on the website. You know, I’m in the process of rolling out the ICP service, so you’re not going to find it on our website, but it does exist. It’s ready to go. It’s production ready. I just have to get our website developer, aka me, to put it on our website as well. So I just have to find the time to do that. But it’ll get there, but it’s ready. Go buy it.
John Wall – 30:41
All right, that sounds good. That’ll wrap it up for us for today. Katie, thanks for joining us.
Katie Robbert – 30:46
You are welcome. I always love these conversations because I just, I love just getting to sit down and talk to you, John, because, we’re always talking about business and business. But then when we start talking about things like, I don’t know, like nineties R&B or our love of, really crappy Christmas movies, the conversation just gets so broad and just so much more fun. So thank you for having me.
John Wall – 31:10
All right. That sounds great. Yes. It’s just too bad we’re curse of the working class. We’ve got to get the job done before we get to talk about the cool stuff. So that will do it for this week. So until next week, enjoy the coffee.
Speaker 1 – 31:22
You’ve been listening to marketing over coffee. Christopher Penn blogs at christopherspenn.com. Read more from John J. Wall at JW5150.com. The marketing over coffee theme song is called Melo G by funk Masters and you can find it at musicalley from Mevio. Or follow the link in our show notes.
The post Katie Robbert on Ideal Customer Profiles, The 5Ps, and more! appeared first on Marketing Over Coffee Marketing Podcast.
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