Kohn's Zone

May 1, 2026

Beneath the What and the How Is the Why

In the absence of an affirmative definition of mental health, psychology doesn't become value-free; its values - and the goals of therapy - are just driven underground. Similarly, if we don't reflect on the purpose of education, schooling by default is oriented just to collecting a credential. The point of this episode is not to recommend one specific educational goal but to sharpen the questions we ask about that topic (and emphasize the importance of asking them). For example: Should the goal(s) of education be the same for all students? Do we favor intellectual, as opposed to purely vocational, outcomes - and, if so, are they more about transmitting knowledge or developing the capacity for critical thinking? Is the point to benefit individual students or our society -- and, if the latter, does that mean boosting the economy or sustaining democracy? And what role should students themselves play in determining the reasons for learning?

RESOURCE:

Labaree, How to Succeed in School Without Really Learning (Yale Univ. Press, 1999) -- https://tinyurl.com/2cz5mmyp

 

If you're enjoying Kohn's Zone, please tell other people about it. If you have feedback about an episode, send it to https://www.alfiekohn.org/contact-us/. And if you're willing to do your part to keep the podcast ad- and paywall-free, kindly click on the donate button. Thanks!

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ART: Abi Kohn

April 15, 2026

The Best Classroom Discussions, Hands Down

In traditional classrooms, students may contribute to a discussion only by raising their hands and waiting for the teacher to call on them. In even more controlling environments, students must contribute when the teacher calls on them, even if they'd rather not. The latter practice, "cold calling," puts kids on the spot and forces them to perform on command. But the former practice, too, could be described as teacher-centered. Is there a way to change this dynamic in such a way that everyone won't talk at once while also making sure that a few outspoken students won't dominate the discussion? What would it mean for teachers to create a more democratic learning community by relinquishing the power to unilaterally decide who speaks when?

RESOURCES:

"Raising Hands" video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqzSlO9dp0c#t=00m25s

Kassia Omohundro Wedekind & Christy Hermann Thompson, Hands Down, Speak Out (Routledge, 2020) -- https://tinyurl.com/26ccz97f

 

A note from Alfie Kohn:

I made two decisions when I decided to start this podcast. The first was not to accept ads. The second was to avoid putting certain episodes behind a paywall (or offering special content only to those who pay). But this means that I depend on the generosity of everyone who listens to help cover the production costs. So: Can you afford a modest contribution -- ideally on a regular basis, since a podcast, after all, is not a one-shot event? If so, I'd be grateful if you'd support the project with whatever amount seems fair to you. (Your generosity will also confirm the thesis of my book The Brighter Side of Human Nature.)

Also, if you enjoy the podcast, please tell other people about it. And if you have feedback about an episode you've just listened to, send it to https://www.alfiekohn.org/contact-us/.

Please click the button below to donate.

If you don’t see a button, please go to this page (https://coff.ee/kohnszone).

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PRODUCTION SUPPORT: Ultraviolet Audio

ART: Abi Kohn

April 1, 2026

The Assault on Public Education: A Conversation with Jennifer Berkshire

Public schools, says Jennifer Berkshire, are the places "where we start to solve problems together" and from which no child can be excluded even if she has special needs or two moms. Public education is really the foundation of a pluralistic secular democracy, which is precisely why it has long been the target of the religious right. This extended episode of Kohn's Zone features a conversation with Berkshire, who expertly guides us through efforts not only to impose religion, book bans, and a right-wing curriculum on public schools but to undermine the institution itself. Voucher plans are unpopular even in red states, but that reflects anti-government fervor more than support for public education, she explains. Liberals may be frustrated when schools fail to create a more egalitarian society, whereas conservatives fear that schools may succeed at this. Can a shared suspicion of wealthy interests -- or opposition to standardized testing -- fend off "school choice" plans? And where do charter schools fit in? Don't miss this illuminating conversation.

RESOURCES:

Jennifer C. Berkshire and Jack Schneider, The Education Wars (New Press, 2024) -- https://is.gd/9sZcHF

Jack Schneider and Jennifer C. Berkshire, A Wolf at the Schoolhouse Door (New Press, 2023) -- https://is.gd/RCGOEa

https://www.haveyouheardpodcast.com/

 

A note from Alfie Kohn:

My sincere thanks to the listeners who have taken a minute to click on the DONATE link (or to visit coff.ee/kohnszone) and helped to cover our production costs, thereby keeping the podcast ad- and paywall-free. If you are not yet one of the listeners who has done this, it's not too late. It will also not be too late tomorrow, but doing so right now would be even better.

Also, if you enjoy the podcast, please tell other people about it.

Please click the button below to donate.

If you don’t see a button, please go to this page (https://coff.ee/kohnszone).

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PRODUCTION SUPPORT: Ultraviolet Audio

ART: Abi Kohn

March 15, 2026

Friendly Excursions into Disequilibrium

Enforced harmony is counterproductive. Pushing students (or employees) to come to agreement prematurely tends to undermine learning (or produce bad decisions). Sometimes that's motivated by a desire to avoid conflict. But conflict handled carefully is not only tolerable; it's valuable. What's problematic is debate - disagreement where the point is not to learn or seek the truth but to win. The ideal arrangement in a classroom (or workplace) is cooperative conflict, where spirited disagreement is non-adversarial and nested in a caring environment.

RESOURCES:

David W. Johnson & Roger T. Johnson, "Energizing Learning: The Instructional Power of Conflict," Educational Researcher (2009) -- https://tinyurl.com/yc7t265j

Karl Smith et al., "Can Conflict Be Constructive?" Journal of Educational Psychology (1981) -- https://tinyurl.com/474ja9bu

Alfie Kohn, No Contest: The Case Against Competition, rev. ed. (Houghton Mifflin, 1992) -- https://www.alfiekohn.org/contest/

 

A note from Alfie Kohn:

I made two decisions when I decided to start this podcast. The first was not to accept ads. The second was to avoid putting certain episodes behind a paywall (or offering special content only to those who pay). But this means that I depend on the generosity of everyone who listens to help cover the production costs. So: Can you afford a modest contribution -- ideally on a regular basis, since a podcast, after all, is not a one-shot event? If so, I'd be grateful if you'd support the project with whatever amount seems fair to you. (Your generosity will also confirm the thesis of my book The Brighter Side of Human Nature.)

Also, if you enjoy the podcast, please tell other people about it. And if you have feedback about an episode, send it to https://www.alfiekohn.org/contact-us/.

Please click the button below to donate.

If you don’t see a button, please go to this page (https://coff.ee/kohnszone).

Donate

PRODUCTION SUPPORT: Ultraviolet Audio

ART: Abi Kohn

March 1, 2026

Who's Cheating Whom?

We're often warned about an "epidemic" of academic cheating and urged to do more to deter and punish the devious culprits. But we've had a century of research showing that the frequency of cheating is predicted not by the compromised morality of individual students but by the policies, priorities, and practices of schools. Specifically, cheating is far more common in competitive, achievement-oriented environments and much rarer when students experience the learning as meaningful and engaging and believe that their teachers care about them. In this episode we consider how systemic features not only increase the likelihood of cheating but are responsible for determining which actions (such as collaborating or consulting reference sources) constitute cheating in the first place.

RESOURCES:

Eric M. Anderman and Tamera B. Murdock, Psychology of Academic Cheating (Elsevier, 2007)

Character Education Inquiry, Studies in the Nature of Character. Volume 1: Studies in Deceit (New York: Macmillan, 1928) -- https://tinyurl.com/72jrrnrz

Y. Kanat-Maymon et al., "The Role of Basic Need-Fulfillment in Academic Dishonesty," Contemporary Educational Psychology 43 (2015) -- https://tinyurl.com/yjvxswsy

 

A note from Alfie Kohn:

If you've been enjoying, or at least listening to, the podcast but have put off supporting it with a modest quantity of cash, I am pleased to inform you that it is not too late to do so. It will also not be too late to do so tomorrow, but doing so today would be even better. Microphones, as my late father might have said, do not grow on trees.

Also, if you enjoy the podcast, please tell other people about it. And if you have feedback about an episode you've listened to, send it to https://www.alfiekohn.org/contact-us/.

Please click the button below to donate.

If you don’t see a button, please go to this page (https://coff.ee/kohnszone).

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PRODUCTION SUPPORT: Ultraviolet Audio

ART: Abi Kohn

February 15, 2026

The Whole Point Is That There's No Point

Early-childhood educators remind us how vital it is for kids to have plentiful opportunities to engage in free play - which, sadly, is often denied to them as academic pressures are imposed too early and too intensely. But let's consider some perspectives on play that are less obvious: how the word is sometimes applied to activities that really aren't play at all; how important play is for older students and adults, too; how play isn't the only alternative to "work" in a school setting; and why we shouldn't try to justify play on the basis of the skills or dispositions it supposedly helps children to acquire. True play has no goal other than itself, and the chance to enjoy it shouldn't be conditioned on whether it proves to be useful.

RESOURCES:

https://allianceforchildhood.org/

https://www.naeyc.org/

NIFplay.org

Deborah Meier et al., Playing for Keeps (Teachers College Press, 2010): https://tinyurl.com/2hbamnpt

Vivian Gussin Paley, A Child’s Work (Univ. of Chicago Press, 2005): https://tinyurl.com/34yzzscw

David Elkind, The Power of Play (Hachette, 2007): https://tinyurl.com/y94mhxfz

A. Kohn, "Students Don't 'Work' -- They Learn," Education Week, September 3, 1997: https://tinyurl.com/yzzwbkxx

 

A note from Alfie Kohn:

I made two decisions when I decided to start this podcast. The first was not to accept ads. The second was to avoid putting certain episodes behind a paywall (or offering special content only to those who pay). But this means that I depend on the generosity of everyone who listens to help cover the production costs. So: Can you afford a modest contribution -- ideally on a regular basis, since a podcast, after all, is not a one-shot event? If so, I'd be grateful if you'd support the project with whatever amount seems fair to you. (Your generosity will also confirm the thesis of my book The Brighter Side of Human Nature.)

Also, if you enjoy the podcast, please tell other people about it. And if you have feedback about an episode you've just listened to, send it to https://www.alfiekohn.org/contact-us/.

Please click the button below to donate.

If you don’t see a button, please go to this page (https://coff.ee/kohnszone).

Donate

PRODUCTION SUPPORT: Ultraviolet Audio

ART: Abi Kohn

February 1, 2026

Beyond "Electronic Flashcards": A Conversation with Gary Stager

Computers in classrooms may have the potential to radically enrich and democratize student learning, but the reality of ed tech typically looks very different. This extended episode of Kohn's Zone features a stimulating conversation with Gary Stager, one of our foremost experts on this topic. He takes us beyond banal generalities ("technology has pluses and minuses") in order to tease out which types, uses, and purposes are constructive and which are a waste of time - or worse. In what he calls our current "age of rising pedagogical authoritarianism," tech often is put in the service of "managing children, 'delivering' instruction, narrowing the curriculum, and turn[ing] kids into question-answering ATMs." Whereas, Stager insists, computers can and should help students to mess around with possibilities, create thrilling projects, and make sense of the world.

RESOURCES

Sylvia Libow Martinez and Gary Stager, Invent to Learn: Making, Tinkering, and Engineering in the Classroom (2nd ed.), 2019: https://tinyurl.com/33k48zd8

Gary Stager, Twenty Things to Do with a Computer - Forward 50, 2021: https://tinyurl.com/mpdky2cw

https://constructingmodernknowledge.com/

Alfie Kohn, "The Sneaky Conservatism of Ed Tech," Education Week, September 27, 2023: https://www.alfiekohn.org/article/tech-conservatism/

 

A note from Alfie Kohn:

My sincere thanks to the listeners who have taken a minute to click on the DONATE link and helped to cover our production costs, thereby keeping the podcast ad- and paywall-free. If you are not yet one of the listeners who has done this, it's not too late. It will also not be too late tomorrow, but doing so right now would be even better.

Also, if you enjoy the podcast, please tell other people about it! 

 

Please click the button below to donate.

If you don’t see a button, please go to this page (https://coff.ee/kohnszone).

Donate

PRODUCTION SUPPORT: Ultraviolet Audio

ART: Abi Kohn

January 15, 2026

How to Kill Kids' Interest in Reading

Surveys reveal that fewer children and adults are reading for pleasure. This might be due partly to social media, but certain classroom strategies and school policies likely play a role. In this episode we come at the issue backwards: What would teachers do if their goal was to extinguish kids' enthusiasm about books? Well, they would adopt a "fonix fetish" when teaching young children. They would require older students to read for a certain length of time -- and keep a log to prove they complied. They would assign books rather than letting kids choose, test them on the content, and offer rewards for reading. These and other traditional practices are extremely effective...at leading kids to regard reading as an activity to be endured rather than enjoyed.

RESOURCES:

Jessica K. Bone et al., "The Decline in Reading for Pleasure Over 20 Years...," iScience, 2025: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12496190/

Teresa Cremin, "Reading for Pleasure," Language and Education, 2024: https://tinyurl.com/376jcra8

Katherine Marsh, "Why Kids Aren't Falling in Love with Reading," The Atlantic, March 2023: https://tinyurl.com/mrxyfdpd

Alfie Kohn, "A Closer Look at Reading Incentive Programs," excerpt from Punished by Rewards (1993/2018): https://www.alfiekohn.org/article/reading-incentives/

For a list of sources debunking claims of the "Science of Reading" campaign about phonics instruction, see note 11 of A. Kohn, "The Siren Song of 'Evidence-Based Instruction," 2024: https://tinyurl.com/24nyam6y.

Seth A. Parsons & Joy Dangora Erickson, “Where Is Motivation in the Science of Reading?“, Phi Delta Kappan, 2024: https://tinyurl.com/mus7vn5p

Michael Becker et al., “Intrinsic and Extrinsic Reading Motivation as Predictors of Reading Literacy,” J of Educational Psych, 2010: https://tinyurl.com/3z34ctdd

Linda M. Pavonetti et al., “Accelerated Reader: What Are the Lasting Effects...?", J of Adolescent & Adult Literacy, 2002/2003: https://tinyurl.com/yj8dfnwb

Barbara A. Marinak & Linda B. Gambrell, “Intrinsic Motivation and Rewards,” Literacy Research & Instruction, 2008: https://tinyurl.com/2yc3zrjp

 

A note from Alfie Kohn:

I made two decisions when I decided to start this podcast. The first was not to accept ads. The second was to avoid putting certain episodes behind a paywall (or offering special content only to those who pay). But this means that I depend on the generosity of everyone who listens to help cover the production costs. So: Can you afford a modest contribution -- ideally on a regular basis, since a podcast, after all, is not a one-shot event? If so, I'd be grateful if you'd support the project with whatever amount seems fair to you. (Your generosity will also confirm the thesis of my book The Brighter Side of Human Nature.)

Also, if you enjoy the podcast, please tell other people about it. And if you have feedback about an episode you've just listened to, send it to https://www.alfiekohn.org/contact-us/.

Please click the button below to donate.

If you don’t see a button, please go to this page (https://coff.ee/kohnszone).

Donate

PRODUCTION SUPPORT: Ultraviolet Audio

ART: Abi Kohn

January 1, 2026

Who Gets to Decide? - Part 2

Intellectually vibrant classrooms are distinguished by teachers who do a lot more asking than telling. Their motto when confronting challenges or planning lessons is "Bring the kids in on it!" Regular class meetings offer a significant role for students to reflect on "how we want our class to be" (rather than focusing on specific rules). This second of a two-part episode digs deeply into strategies for supporting student autonomy and then explores some of the structural and psychological reasons why some teachers are reluctant to move in this direction. It's tough to give up control, but that's when the learning really starts.

RESOURCES:

Daphne Blunt Bugental et al., “Who’s the Boss?", Journal of Personality and Social Psychology 72 (1997): 1297-1309

Child Development Project, Ways We Want Our Class to Be: Class Meetings That Build Commitment to Kindness and Learning (Developmental Studies Center, 1996) [https://tinyurl.com/4zkptxec]

 

A note from Alfie Kohn:

My sincere thanks to the listeners who have taken a minute to click on the DONATE link (or to visit coff.ee/kohnszone) and helped to cover our production costs, thereby keeping the podcast ad- and paywall-free. If you are not yet one of the listeners who has done this, it's not too late. It will also not be too late tomorrow, but doing so right now would be even better.

Also, if you enjoy the podcast, please tell other people about it. And if you have feedback about an episode you've just listened to, send it to https://www.alfiekohn.org/contact-us/.

Please click the button below to donate.

If you don’t see a button, please go to this page (https://coff.ee/kohnszone).

Donate

PRODUCTION SUPPORT: Ultraviolet Audio

ART: Abi Kohn

December 15, 2025

Who Gets to Decide? - Part 1

An impressive body of research shows that people of all ages - including students in classrooms - are happier, healthier, and more productive when they have some say about what they're doing. Indeed, the way children learn to make good decisions is by making decisions. Why, then, are so many classrooms more focused on eliciting their compliance than supporting their autonomy? In this, the first of a two-part episode, stories and studies illustrate the benefits of giving students a real voice about what and how they learn, how problems are solved, and even how the classroom is arranged and decorated. What's more, many such decisions are best made collectively (and not just through voting) because autonomy + community = democracy.

 

A note from Alfie Kohn:

I made two decisions when I started this podcast. The first was not to accept ads. The second was to avoid putting certain episodes behind a paywall (or offering special content only to those who pay). But this means that I depend on the generosity of everyone who listens to help cover the production costs. So: Can you afford a modest contribution -- ideally on a regular basis, since a podcast, after all, is not a one-shot event? If so, I'd be grateful if you'd support the project with whatever amount seems fair to you.

     Also, if you enjoy the podcast, please tell other people about it. And if you have feedback about an episode you've just listened to, send it to https://www.alfiekohn.org/contact-us/.

Please click the button below to donate.

If you don’t see a button, please go to this page (https://coff.ee/kohnszone).

Donate

PRODUCTION SUPPORT: Ultraviolet Audio

ART: Abi Kohn