August 15, 2025

Confusing Harder with Better

What do the following have in common?

a) parents who don't seem particularly concerned about whether what their kids are doing in school is engaging or meaningful, but are quick to complain if their assignments aren't sufficiently challenging

b) people who assume that Advanced Placement classes must be the best that a high school has to offer just because these classes are really tough

c) proponents of school reform who use the language of "rigor" and "raising the bar"

d) legislators and administrators who require students to take standardized tests that many successful adults would struggle to pass

The common denominator here is the deep-rooted assumption that, where schooling is concerned, higher quality is basically equivalent to greater difficulty. This episode of Kohn's Zone explores how profoundly this misconception has shaped our understanding of schooling.

 

A note from Alfie Kohn:

If you've been enjoying, or at least listening to, the podcast but have put off doing your part to support it, I am pleased to inform you that it is not too late to do so. It will also not be too late tomorrow, but doing so today would be even better. Microphones, as my father might have said, do not grow on trees.  Please consider a modest contribution -- ideally on a regular basis, since a podcast, after all, is not a one-shot event -- to keep us ad-free and unpaywalled.  Thanks!

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PRODUCTION SUPPORT: Ultraviolet Audio

ART: Abi Kohn

August 1, 2025

Number Sense and Nonsense

A Conversation with Jo Boaler About Learning Math(s)

 

Question: Why do so many people write off math as uninteresting if not downright unpleasant, and as something they just don't have a knack for? Answer: Years of traditional instruction with textbooks and worksheets and quizzes, memorization of math facts and algorithms, direct instruction of the approved technique for arriving at the right answer (followed by endless practice problems) that leaves you with no understanding of what you're doing, let alone why.

This extended episode of Kohn's Zone features a spirited conversation with math educator Jo Boaler of Stanford University, who explains how we're trapped by mistaken beliefs about how math should be taught - and what math is.

RESOURCES:

YouCubed.org -- Boaler's center for innovative math teaching

Books by Boaler: Math-ish, Mathematical Mindsets, What's Math Got to Do With It?

A chapter by Kohn (from The Schools Our Children Deserve): "What Works Better than Traditional Math Instruction" (https://tinyurl.com/54mzvu69)

 

A note from Alfie Kohn:

I made two decisions when I decided to start this podcast. The first was not to accept ads. The second was to avoid putting certain episodes behind a paywall (or offering special content only to those who pay). But this means that I depend on the generosity of everyone who listens to help cover the production costs. So: Can you afford a modest contribution -- ideally on a regular basis, since a podcast, after all, is not a one-shot event? If so, I'd be grateful if you'd support the project with whatever amount seems fair to you. (Your generosity will also confirm the thesis of my book The Brighter Side of Human Nature.)

Oh, and if you enjoy the podcast, please tell other people about it. Thanks!

 

Please click the button below to donate.

If you don’t see a button, please go to this page (https://coff.ee/kohnszone).

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PRODUCTION SUPPORT: Ultraviolet Audio

ART: Abi Kohn

July 15, 2025

Skip the Sugarcoating

If your company is offering unappealing food, you'll be tempted to add artificial sweetener. And if your schools are offering unengaging lessons (which students had no role in creating), you'll be tempted to use some kind of gimmick to make them seem less dreary. This episode considers how, long before "gamification," John Dewey hit on the metaphor of sugarcoating to describe efforts to distract kids from the "barrenness" of what they were being made to do. Half a century later, give or take, a pair of early-childhood educators, Rheta DeVries and Betty Zan, hit on the same metaphor to explain how the use of rewards, including the verbal kind ("Good job!"), are mostly efforts to sugarcoat control. (If this podcast accepted ads, which it assuredly does not, you would expect one to run in this episode for a certain cereal mentioned by name that is tasty enough to require no artificial sweetening.)

 

A note from Alfie Kohn:

If you're already signed up to receive an email when a new blog post appears on my website, the software gods have decreed that you'll also get a notification as soon as each new episode of the podcast becomes available.  (If you want to opt out of that, you should be able to do so on the sign-up page.)

If you're enjoying Kohn's Zone, please let folks in your professional and personal circles know about it by forwarding a link to the page where it lives.

And if you can afford a modest contribution -- ideally on a regular basis, since a podcast, after all, is not a one-shot event -- please consider supporting the project with whatever amount seems fair to you in order to keep it ad-free and make sure all content is freely available to everyone. Thanks!

 

Please click the button below to donate.

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PRODUCTION SUPPORT: Ultraviolet Audio

ART: Abi Kohn

July 1, 2025

Little Ed Koches

Grades and tests get in the way of learning for multiple reasons, but this episode digs deeper to explore how any practices that lead students to focus on how well they're doing in school -- as opposed to what they're doing -- are bad news. Policy makers who trumpet their demands for higher standards, "rigor," and "raising the bar" may not realize that this focus on achievement makes kids think less about learning because, like a certain bald former mayor of New York City, they're constantly asking, "How'm I doin'?"

For details about the harmful effects on learning of overemphasizing achievement, please see chapter 2 of The Schools Our Children Deserve (AlfieKohn.org/schools-children-deserve/).

 

A note from Alfie Kohn:

I made two decisions when I decided to start this podcast. The first was not to accept ads. The second was to avoid putting certain episodes behind a paywall (or offering special content only to those who pay). But this means that I depend on the generosity of everyone who listens to help cover the production costs. So: Can you afford a modest contribution -- ideally on a regular basis, since a podcast, after all, is not a one-shot event? If so, I'd be grateful if you'd support the project with whatever amount seems fair to you. (Your generosity will also confirm the thesis of my book The Brighter Side of Human Nature.)

Oh, and if you enjoy the podcast, please tell other people about it. Thanks!

Please click the button below to donate.

If you don’t see a button, please go to this page (https://coff.ee/kohnszone).

 

Donate

PRODUCTION SUPPORT: Ultraviolet Audio

ART: Abi Kohn

July 1, 2025

The Back-to-School-Night Speech We'd Like to Hear

This introductory episode offers an overview of education issues that will be discussed on the podcast -- a sort of a Cliff's Notes to what distinguishes traditional from progressive education. It takes the form of a (fictitious) principal's remarks to parents delivered one evening in a school auditorium. The premise was inspired by a movie-satire feature that occasionally appeared in Mad magazine called “Scenes We’d Like to See.” It was also inspired (or, um, counterinspired) by some back-to-school talks we’ve actually heard.

 

A note from Alfie Kohn:

I made two decisions when I decided to start this podcast. The first was not to accept ads. The second was to avoid putting certain episodes behind a paywall (or offering special content only to those who pay). But this means that I depend on the generosity of everyone who listens to help cover the production costs. So: Can you afford a modest contribution -- ideally on a regular basis, since a podcast, after all, is not a one-shot event? If so, I'd be grateful if you'd support the project with whatever amount seems fair to you. (Your generosity will also confirm the thesis of my book The Brighter Side of Human Nature.)

Oh, and if you enjoy the podcast, please tell other people about it. Thanks!

 

Please click the button below to donate.

If you don’t see a button, please go to this page (https://coff.ee/kohnszone).

Donate

PRODUCTION SUPPORT: Ultraviolet Audio

ART: Abi Kohn