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Krishna Das, best-selling western chant artist of all time, talks with J about what a real guru is and the practice of chanting. They discuss KD's experience of Neem Karoli Baba and the role of a guru, his early beginnings of leading kirtan in NYC, singing to clean out the dark places, overcoming the pitfalls that come from becoming more interesting to others, doing things for the right reasons and understanding deeper love, and entering into heart spaces to experience the interconnectedness of all. This episode is sponsored by Karmasoft.