Latter-day Faith

This episode focuses on the term "latter-day" and how it is understood by Christians, including Latter-day Saints, in many different ways, each leading to quite varied theologies. Mark Crego and LDF host Dan Wotherspoon distinguish between "last days" and the idea of an impending apocalypse, "latter" vs "former" days of both early Christianity and early Mormonism, and, third, as referring to now, this present moment in time. They review each, discussing scripture and precedent in Christian discussions, as well as evaluating the practical and social impact of the various camps. Do some lead to apathy and waiting for the fix for social ills to come from the Second Coming of Jesus? Do some lend themselves best in creating power dynamics that can often be coercive or controlling. Ultimately, this episode zeros in on the way this podcast, Latter-day Faith, emphasizes the concept of latter-days as being about faith for these current days of so much information and competing voices and sensibilities. It also offers framings for how to interact with those in our families or communities who might think about prophecies of Christ's return differently than we do. All throughout, both Mark and Dan share quite personal stories and reflections about pivotal moments in their lives related to how they have come to view the idea of latter days.

We all live our lives within mythic structures, and we always will. But early on, as James Fowler states, we take these overarching stories as literally true (he names his Stage 2 as Mythic-Literal). Then life, in ways that we can comprehend, serves up alternate mythologies. We begin to see the stories of others as genuine options for us to adopt, or at least appreciate deeply. In that dilemma of seeing more than one story or mythic framing being as capable of leading people to experience rich and joyful lives, with strong values and a dynamic sense of purpose, we must begin to shift our perspective. We are now forced to see our myths as value stories rather than factual truth, and begin to enter into a new relationship with them. Making this shift is extremely difficult. At first, most of us want to hide or re-cocoon ourselves solely within our story as being THE right or best one. This transition toward comfort with our overarching stories and sense of the world/universe/purpose as being mythic and something other than what we thought it was can take a very long time. But it is a shift worth making, because all of a sudden the world and universe come alive for us in ways we can't, in our fears, imagine. Now we are playing on a much larger stage: a lure that calls us to embark upon the hero's journey, the quest to overcome what scares us or holds us back, and into a new life that can help heal ourselves and the communities we are part of. In this episode, my wonderful friend Charles Randall Paul (Randy) and I dive deeply into the importance and value of myth (debunking any thought of it as "not true") and the excitement of being in a broader world in which we are now able to be creators and teachers and livers of our highest values and experience harmony between our old and ever-emerging selves in ways that enliven our family and community bonds and experiences and, hopefully, model for others the boons of these journeys into the unknown that lead us back transformed in powerful ways. I hope you'll join us in this important conversation, this attempt to assist us all in "unlearning" any perjorative thoughts of myth as being less powerful or vital than "facts." I also hope you'll find attractive, as well, what we do in the sections that help bring alive gorgeous aspects of Mormonism's foundational myths.

We all live our lives within mythic structures, and we always will. But early on, as James Fowler states, we take these overarching stories as literally true (he names his Stage 2 as Mythic-Literal). Then life, in ways that we can comprehend, serves up alternate mythologies. We begin to see the stories of others as genuine options for us to adopt, or at least appreciate deeply. In that dilemma of seeing more than one story or mythic framing being as capable of leading people to experience rich and joyful lives, with strong values and a dynamic sense of purpose, we must begin to shift our perspective. We are now forced to see our myths as value stories rather than factual truth, and begin to enter into a new relationship with them.

Making this shift is extremely difficult. At first, most of us want to hide or re-cocoon ourselves solely within our story as being THE right or best one. This transition toward comfort with our overarching stories and sense of the world/universe/purpose as being mythic and something other than what we thought it was can take a very long time. But it is a shift worth making, because all of a sudden the world and universe come alive for us in ways we can't, in our fears, imagine. Now we are playing on a much larger stage: a lure that calls us to embark upon the hero's journey, the quest to overcome what scares us or holds us back, and into a new life that can help heal ourselves and the communities we are part of. 

In this episode, my wonderful friend Charles Randall Paul (Randy) and I dive deeply into the importance and value of myth (debunking any thought of it as "not true") and the excitement of being in a broader world in which we are now able to be creators and teachers and livers of our highest values and experience harmony between our old and ever-emerging selves in ways that enliven our family and community bonds and experiences and, hopefully, model for others the boons of these journeys into the unknown that lead us back transformed in powerful ways.

I hope you'll join us in this important conversation, this attempt to assist us all in "unlearning" any perjorative thoughts of myth as being less powerful or vital than "facts." I also hope you'll find attractive, as well, what we do in the sections that help bring alive gorgeous aspects of Mormonism's foundational myths.

In this episode, I am joined by the wonderful scholar Taylor Petrey for a conversation on "church." Our goal was to try to open up the concept of church to allow more breathing room so we might consider it beyond a particular religion and its various leadership, ritual, and community forms. In the first part of our discussion, Taylor leads us through the origins of the term and understandings of it in the New Testament and early centuries of Christianity. We discuss whether Jesus deliberately tried to set up a church with a particular organizational structure that was to be perpetuated following his death. This leads us to briefly reconsider the story of Apostasy and Restoration that have been emphasized within the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We also consider "church" as it is used in Latter-day Saint scriptures. The second half of our discussion is more personal than historical or theological. How do we approach church as participating members who have studied, or at least become conscious enough of, the difficult aspects of churches and their teachings, and as organizations that naturally focus on "administering" their affairs and providing messaging that will be safe and digestible for the majority of its adherents, rather than "ministering" to and feeding each and every member's particular needs? We ask about what church means in our lives. We conclude with messages of appreciation, as well, for the many good things a church can provide, and, of course, I throw in my pitch for the secret to thriving within a structured faith community (no matter its set-up) as being our willingness to do our own inner work and commune directly with God rather than imagine we are forced only to approach the Divine through a church's authoritative structure and leaders. Interesting and better "questions" are far superior when it comes to our spiritual lives than are "answers"!

In this episode, I am joined by the wonderful scholar Taylor Petrey for a conversation on "church." Our goal was to try to open up the concept of church to allow more breathing room so we might consider it beyond a particular religion and its various leadership, ritual, and community forms. In the first part of our discussion, Taylor leads us through the origins of the term and understandings of it in the New Testament and early centuries of Christianity. We discuss whether Jesus deliberately tried to set up a church with a particular organizational structure that was to be perpetuated following his death. This leads us to briefly reconsider the story of Apostasy and Restoration that have been emphasized within the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We also consider "church" as it is used in Latter-day Saint scriptures.

The second half of our discussion is more personal than historical or theological. How do we approach church as participating members who have studied, or at least become conscious enough of, the difficult aspects of churches and their teachings, and as organizations that naturally focus on "administering" their affairs and providing messaging that will be safe and digestible for the majority of its adherents, rather than "ministering" to and feeding each and every member's particular needs? We ask about what church means in our lives. We conclude with messages of appreciation, as well, for the many good things a church can provide, and, of course, I throw in my pitch for the secret to thriving within a structured faith community (no matter its set-up) as being our willingness to do our own inner work and commune directly with God rather than imagine we are forced only to approach the Divine through a church's authoritative structure and leaders. Interesting and better "questions" are far superior when it comes to our spiritual lives than are "answers"! 

According to Joseph Smith, faith is the first principle of the gospel. And many of this teachings show that he understood it profoundly. But ever since the early church published its "Articles of Faith" with all but one of them beginning with "We believe," Latter-day Saints, like so many other Christians who now live downwind from when their various traditions broke off from the main church and in doing so felt they had to distinguish themselves from other denominations by sharing how their beliefs differ from the others, "faith" has become far too conflated with what a person or group believes. The active, relational, magnificent engine of change and hope and well-being aspects of faith become, far too often, forgotten. And one set of circumstances in which this distortion of the concept of faith is often a bigger stumbling block is for those who begin to doubt the truth claims that they once held and/or feel out of place within a church of culture that seems to demand a high level of belief, whether in the form of creeds to assert or questions posed by ecclesiastical leaders. How do we (re)claim in our own lives the power, hope, and love that are the core features of faith? How can we be "persons of faith" and persons who walk in faith even if we don't/can't actually give mental consent to very many particular claims about the nature of God, Jesus, Spirit, the universe, human beings, scripture, rituals, salvation, and so forth? Mark Crego and Latter-day Faith host Dan Wotherspoon believe that the first steps involve attaining more clarity on the subject/phenomenon of faith, unlearning the habit of equating it too much with beliefs, and most of all beginning to understand that it actually is all about relationships. We hope you'll enjoy this terrific, insight-filled discussion! Let us know if you did in the comments below! Thanks!

According to Joseph Smith, faith is the first principle of the gospel. And many of this teachings show that he understood it profoundly. But ever since the early church published its "Articles of Faith" with all but one of them beginning with "We believe," Latter-day Saints, like so many other Christians who now live downwind from when their various traditions broke off from the main church and in doing so felt they had to distinguish themselves from other denominations by sharing how their beliefs differ from the others, "faith" has become far too conflated with what a person or group believes. The active, relational, magnificent engine of change and hope and well-being aspects of faith become, far too often, forgotten. And one set of circumstances in which this distortion of the concept of faith is often a bigger stumbling block is for those who begin to doubt the truth claims that they once held and/or feel out of place within a church of culture that seems to demand a high level of belief, whether in the form of creeds to assert or questions posed by ecclesiastical leaders.

How do we (re)claim in our own lives the power, hope, and love that are the core features of faith? How can we be "persons of faith" and persons who walk in faith even if we don't/can't actually give mental consent to very many particular claims about the nature of God, Jesus, Spirit, the universe, human beings, scripture, rituals, salvation, and so forth? Mark Crego and Latter-day Faith host Dan Wotherspoon believe that the first steps involve attaining more clarity on the subject/phenomenon of faith, unlearning the habit of equating it too much with beliefs, and most of all beginning to understand that it actually is all about relationships.

We hope you'll enjoy this terrific, insight-filled discussion! Let us know if you did in the comments below! Thanks!

Latter-day Faith is, rightly, part of the Faith Journey Foundation, as its ultimate focus is trying to assist in the the life processes that simply "feel right" to our souls: our becoming our highest selves. This episode was originally prompted by a Facebook query in which a listener noted that I have been mentioning quite often that the early episodes of LDF are intended to be "foundational," groundwork for discussions that will follow, but he couldn't quite spot the full rhyme or reason for the various topics we've presented on up to this point. I recorded this episode as a response to his question that ended up moving into ideas such as the importance of "un-learning" certain things before we can learn new ones, and of our allowing ideas, judgments, assumptions, grudges, blinders, self-doubts, and so much more to "die" before we can be resurrected, able to enter the fulness of what it means to be both human and divine. To get there, I primarily share two framings (two approaches to the same thing): the Hero's/Heroine's Journey, and the basic gist of James Fowler's "stages of faith." Both have been pivotal in my own journey, and I wanted to share them afresh here in the early going of this podcast project. I hope you'll enjoy the result of my rambles, switchbacks and goofiness centered around some really profound stuff. Cheers!