Bobby and Jens catch up with Laurens Ten Dam. In his career he reached the top 10 in GC at the Tour de France and the Vuelta but in retirement has found a happy place on the toughest gravel and ultracycling events the planet has to offer. In this enlightening conversation he discusses casino breaks on rest day, the toughest challenge every neo-pro must tackle and the story behind THAT Tour de France Crash.

This episode of Bobby and Jens presented by Zwift is a Velonews production in association with Shocked Giraffe. It was produced by Mark Payne and edited by Tim Mossa.