Lead to Soar

In this episode, Michelle Redfern is joined by Susan Colantuono, founder of Be Business Savvy and co-founder of the Lead to Soar Network, to discuss the transformative coaching approaches needed to support women’s advancement into senior leadership. This conversation focuses on how managers, mentors, and coaches can go beyond traditional coaching frameworks to build their own business acumen—and effectively coach women on these skills. By developing these critical coaching capabilities, we can bridge the leadership gender gap and elevate women leaders to new heights.

Key Topics Discussed:

• Transformative Coaching for Women Leaders: Michelle and Susan explore why standard coaching methods, often centered on Emotional Intelligence (EQ), fall short in preparing women for executive roles. They emphasize the need to integrate Business Intelligence (BQ) into coaching strategies, equipping women with essential business, financial, and strategic skills.

• The Missing Thirty-Three Percent: Susan shares her concept of the Missing Thirty-Three Percent—the skills gap in business, financial, and strategic acumen that women often face. This gap, left unaddressed, limits women’s advancement to senior positions. She urges coaches and mentors to prioritize building BQ to help women become recognized as invaluable business partners.

• Practical Coaching Approaches to BQ: Susan and Michelle outline actionable coaching techniques that managers, mentors, and coaches can adopt to help women develop and showcase business acumen. They discuss the value of guiding women to interpret financial metrics, contribute to strategic initiatives, and effectively communicate business outcomes to senior leaders.

• Gender Dynamics and Coaching: Susan offers insights on how gender biases in coaching can reinforce stereotypes, such as focusing on women’s confidence and work-life balance over business skills. By recognizing these dynamics, coaches can shift their approach to empower women with the skills that truly drive career advancement.

Actionable Insights:

1. For Coaches and Mentors: Build your own BQ skills to coach women effectively on business, financial, and strategic acumen. Make it a priority to help women develop the skills and language needed to be recognized as strategic partners within the organization.

2. For Managers and Leaders: Transform coaching by focusing on how women’s roles contribute to business results. Encourage them to engage with business metrics, strategy discussions, and broader organizational goals to build their reputation as key business players.

3. For Women in Leadership: Seek out opportunities to develop your business savvy. Understand how your work impacts the organization’s strategic objectives, and learn to communicate these impacts in ways that demonstrate your value as a leader.

Resources Mentioned:

• No Ceiling, No Walls by Susan Colantuono

• Be Business Savvy: BeBusinessSavvy.com

• Michelle Redfern’s The Leadership Compass for insights on BQ and leadership success.

Final Thoughts:

Michelle and Susan call on all managers, mentors, and coaches to step up their coaching game by integrating business acumen development into their support of women leaders. By strengthening their own BQ skills, these supporters can play a pivotal role in closing the leadership gender gap and positioning women as invaluable partners in the business.

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In this episode of Lead to Soar, host Michelle Redfern is joined by Trina Sunday, founder of Reimagine HR, for a candid conversation about the need for a major overhaul in HR. Michelle and Trina unpack the shortcomings in traditional HR practices, including the “policy police” reputation, and discuss how HR functions must evolve to be effective partners in strategic leadership. They explore why HR often catches criticism, how changing workplace expectations impact HR’s responsibilities, and the skills gap preventing HR from meeting the needs of a modern workforce. From adopting design thinking to embracing proactive relationship-building, they advocate for a reimagined HR that better supports both employee well-being and organizational goals.

Episode Highlights:

Why HR Needs Reimagining: Trina explains that HR’s “policy police” reputation often undermines its credibility. The function frequently finds itself torn between advocating for leaders or employees, resulting in a perceived lack of alignment and strategic value.

The Dual Role of HR: Michelle and Trina discuss the unique challenge HR faces in balancing the needs of both employees and leadership. This "dual loyalty" requires HR professionals to demonstrate social intelligence, transparency, and consistency to foster trust on both sides.

Modern Skill Requirements for HR: To thrive in today’s environment, HR must master new skills, including data analysis, digital literacy, business acumen, and values-based decision-making. The need to focus on employee experience design and inclusivity is also highlighted.

Barriers to HR Transformation: Limited budgets, outdated perceptions, and a lack of digital resources hinder HR's ability to drive innovation. Additionally, traditional HR education often fails to equip practitioners with the modern skills necessary for impactful leadership.

The Role of Design Thinking in HR: Both Michelle and Trina advocate for using human-centered design to tailor HR practices to meet diverse employee needs effectively. However, they acknowledge that this is rarely part of traditional HR training.

Leadership Call to Action:

Reevaluate HR's Role: For senior leaders, clarify HR’s strategic role within the organization. Openly communicate this vision across departments to ensure alignment and mutual understanding.

Voice of the Customer Listening Tour: Encourage HR to regularly engage with both employees and leadership to understand their evolving needs. Use focus groups or one-on-one conversations to gain insights rather than relying on impersonal surveys.

Invest in Skill Development: Equip HR teams with critical skills such as business acumen, data literacy, and design thinking to address both organizational and employee needs proactively. Prioritize continuous learning, networking, and skill-building.

Embrace Proactive Communication: Transparent, values-driven communication is essential in building trust. Ensure HR consistently communicates decisions and expectations, maintaining clear, ethical standards.

Challenge Traditional Practices: Question outdated processes that hinder HR’s ability to be a proactive partner in the business. Shift HR’s focus away from compliance to prioritize collaboration, strategic input, and employee advocacy.

You can find, listen to and connect with Trina at:

http://www.reimaginehr.com.au/

https://podcast.reimaginehr.com.au/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/trinasunday/

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In this episode of the Lead to Soar podcast, Michelle Redfern explores the concept of learning conversations and their role in career and leadership development. Michelle shares how mastering the art of these informal but intentional discussions can significantly enhance your leadership journey.

Key Discussion Points:

What are Learning Conversations?

Michelle defines learning conversations as informal, intentional dialogues with someone whose experience can help broaden your perspective. Unlike traditional mentoring, learning conversations are more flexible and less structured, focusing on real-time knowledge sharing and feedback.

Why Learning Conversations Matter for Leaders

Research from Dan Pink emphasizes that asking smart, open-ended questions invites deeper engagement and leads to more meaningful learning experiences. Learning conversations allow leaders to develop cognitive diversity by connecting with people who have different lived experiences. This helps you become a more adaptable and agile leader.

Practical Steps to Initiate Learning Conversations

Michelle shares actionable advice on how to start a learning conversation:

1. Identify your goals or challenges.

2. Reflect on who in your network might offer valuable insights.

3. Frame your request thoughtfully to respect the other person’s time and expertise.

4. Focus on active listening and mutual benefit during the conversation.

The Coffee Experiment

Michelle challenges listeners to try The Coffee Experiment by reaching out to someone in their network for an informal conversation. This simple yet powerful strategy can help you test ideas, seek feedback, and develop deeper professional relationships.

The Role of Confidence in Learning Conversations

Michelle emphasizes that asking for a learning conversation demonstrates leadership qualities such as self-awareness, emotional intelligence, and a willingness to grow. For women in particular, engaging in these conversations is a way to build confidence and navigate workplace challenges.

Resources Mentioned:

Dan Pink’s work on the power of questions in leadership (e.g., To Sell is Human)

Holly Ransom’s Love Mondays newsletter on learning conversations

Actionable Challenge:

This week, try The Coffee Experiment. Reach out to someone in your network for a 30-minute conversation focused on learning from their experience. Frame your request thoughtfully, listen actively, and reflect on what you gain from the conversation.

Join the Conversation:

We’d love to hear how you’re using learning conversations in your leadership journey. Share your experiences with us on the Lead to Soar network or email us directly.

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In this episode, Michelle Redfern discusses the Hour of Power, a weekly group coaching call within the Lead to Soar network. This session provides a safe and consistent space for women to share their career challenges and insights, offering practical advice, support, and a strategic network that empowers women to thrive. Michelle highlights the importance of psychological safety, the value of women supporting each other in their careers, and the real-world outcomes participants experience through Hour of Power.

Key Takeaways:

What is Hour of Power?

Hour of Power is a weekly, one-hour online session where Lead to Soar members come together to share challenges, receive support, and engage in meaningful, action-oriented discussions. It's a safe space where women can show up, whether in strength or vulnerability, to receive practical and constructive advice.

Consistency and Psychological Safety:

The power of Hour of Power lies in its consistency and the psychological safety it provides. One participant describes it as, "The consistency of the experience and the psychological safety of the space. I can turn up in my robustness or my vulnerability, and both are met with honest, practical, and kind reflection." This safe, non-judgmental space enables women to explore career challenges and take meaningful risks.

The Power of Women Supporting Women:

Research, such as McKinsey’s Women in the Workplace report, highlights the importance of strong professional networks in advancing women’s careers. In Hour of Power, women support each other strategically, providing mentorship, sponsorship, and emotional support. One member noted, "Even if you don’t feel confident or want to talk, there is so much gold in this hour. The key takeaways are always—you are far from alone, the knowledge bank is next level, and the women in this community always help."

Real-World Impact:

Participants in Hour of Power have shared numerous success stories, from landing remote roles to negotiating promotions. As one participant said, "Hour of Power is my energy boost and a chance to engage my brain with brilliant, intelligent, supportive women." The session offers both tangible takeaways and a renewed sense of motivation and community.

Call to Action for Leaders:

Michelle challenges leaders to create similar safe spaces in their workplaces, ensuring that underrepresented and marginalized individuals have the opportunity to share their ideas and concerns. These spaces foster innovation, growth, and progress for both individuals and organizations.

Resources Mentioned:

Harvard Business Review: The Key to Inclusive Leadership

McKinsey & Company: Women in the Workplace 2023

Join the Lead to Soar Network:

If you’re a Lead to Soar member and haven’t yet participated in Hour of Power, this is your invitation to join us. And if you’re not a member yet, visit Lead to Soar Network to learn more about how you can become part of this powerful community of women supporting women. leadtosoar.network/landing

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In this solo episode, Michelle tackles a deeply challenging issue many women face: hostile workplaces. From subtle microaggressions to outright discrimination, hostile environments can undermine confidence, drain emotional energy, and hinder career progression. Michelle breaks down practical strategies to protect yourself, build resilience, and—if necessary—find your way out. This episode is filled with actionable advice on how to survive and thrive even in the most difficult work environments.

Key Takeaways:

1. Understand What a Hostile Workplace Is: Hostile environments are more than just overt harassment—they include subtle behaviors like exclusion, being passed over for key projects, or being assigned non-promotable tasks.

2. Build a Network: Don't isolate yourself. Find allies and accomplices both inside and outside your workplace who can offer support and validation.

3. Document Everything: Keep detailed records of hostile behaviors, including dates, times, what was said, and how it made you feel. This can serve as crucial evidence if you need to escalate the issue.

4. Know Your Rights: Familiarize yourself with workplace policies and legal protections like the Respect @ Work legislation in Australia. Know what resources and recourse are available to you.

5. Develop Emotional Resilience: Take care of your mental and physical health by practicing self-care, and don’t hesitate to seek professional support if needed.

6. Evaluate Your Options: If the hostility continues, decide whether escalating the issue or leaving the organization is the best path for you. Be prepared with an exit strategy.

7. Prepare for an Exit: Continuously network and keep your LinkedIn updated. Having options and an exit strategy will empower you, even if you don’t immediately leave.

Call to Action:

Join the Lead to Soar network for access to weekly group coaching sessions where women from all over the world come together for support and advice on navigating their careers.

If you found this episode helpful, please share it with someone who might benefit from these strategies.

Additional Resources:

Lead to Soar Network

Respect @ Work Legislation (Australia)

Hour of Power Group Coaching

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In this episode of Lead to Soar, hosts Michelle Redfern and Mel Butcher tackle the crucial topic of taking risks in your career. From deciding whether to apply for new roles to managing toxic work environments, the conversation covers practical strategies for assessing risks, taking bold steps, and learning from past decisions. Michelle introduces the concept of a "risk matrix" to help you evaluate career moves, while Mel shares personal insights on making big life changes. The episode also explores overcoming fear of rejection, managing workplace politics, and how to become proactive in your career growth.

Episode Highlights:

- Risk-taking in career moves: Michelle encourages women to take risks by applying for new opportunities without overthinking or creating problems that haven't arisen yet.

“If something’s piqued your interest, why wouldn’t you explore it? You don’t have a decision to make until a new offer is on the table.” 

- The risk matrix: Michelle shares a simple framework for evaluating risks based on probability and impact, applicable to both business and personal career decisions.

Example: The risk of losing your job may be low, but the impact could be high, so always be prepared with updated CVs, LinkedIn profiles, and professional networks.

Managing toxic workplaces: Both hosts discuss strategies for handling toxic bosses and environments, including the importance of having a support network and proactive mitigation strategies.

Taking career risks as opportunities: Instead of avoiding risk, view new job opportunities as a chance to build networks, explore roles, and raise your profile—without the fear of “what if.”

Risk vs. reward in networking: Mel and Michelle emphasize the importance of strategic networking, both for career advancement and to help others, highlighting the reciprocity and generosity required in building professional relationships.

“Don’t wait for someone to invite you—create your own table.” 

Learning from failure: The episode touches on how we can make good decisions that don’t always lead to good outcomes and how reflecting on those experiences leads to growth.

“We can’t do life over, but we can stop, breathe, reflect, and ask: What did I learn from that situation?” 

Leadership Call to Action:

Apply for opportunities, even if unsure: Don’t hesitate to apply for a role that interests you. You’re not obligated to make a final decision until an offer is in hand.

Use a risk matrix for career decisions: Evaluate risks using a simple matrix based on probability and impact, and mitigate risks with strategies like maintaining an updated CV and strong professional networks.

Strategic networking: Be proactive in your networking efforts. Reach out to industry professionals, create opportunities to connect, and offer value in return.

Take calculated risks: Whether it’s applying for a new job, starting a conversation with a recruiter, or advocating for yourself in a difficult work environment, weigh the risk vs. reward. Remember, staying in the comfort zone carries its own risks.

Mitigate the impact of toxic work environments: If you’re dealing with a toxic boss or workplace, build a support system and have a clear strategy to protect your wellbeing while working through the situation.

Download a career risk management matrix here: 

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Mel and Michelle have an unfiltered chat about a challenging and often uncomfortable topic—bad behaviour among senior women in leadership, particularly the so-called "Queen Bee" syndrome. Drawing on listener questions and their personal experiences, they tackle the issue of women who pull up the ladder after achieving success, refusing to mentor or support other women. The discussion also explores the societal expectations of women in power, double standards, and how leadership behaviours are judged differently for men and women.

This episode is less formal, featuring a conversational and reflective tone as Michelle and Mel "shoot the shit" over a glass of wine (Mel) and coffee (Michelle). Together, they explore the complexities of navigating toxic leadership from senior women and offer advice on coping with and addressing these situations.

Highlights:

Quote Reflection: Madeleine Albright's famous quote,"There's a special place in hell for women who don't help other women," sparks a debate on whether this mindset perpetuates unfair expectations of women in leadership.

Queen Bee Syndrome: Discussion on women in power who refuse to mentor or sponsor other women, often stemming from their struggles to the top.

Double Standards: Women are often held to a higher standard than men when it comes to leadership behaviour. Men are seen as assertive, while women displaying the same traits are labelled aggressive or unlikeable.

Personal Experiences: Your hosts share their own encounters with toxic female leaders and the lasting impact they can have on careers and workplace dynamics.

Resisting Change: Exploring the psychological and systemic resistance to change within organisations and why some women leaders might cling to outdated or damaging behaviours.

Navigating Toxic Leaders: Advice on survival and strategising in workplaces where senior women engage in bullying or unsupportive behaviour, emphasising self-awareness and knowing when to draw personal boundaries.

Leadership Call to Action:

Acknowledge the Behaviour: Recognise when a senior leader's behaviour is inappropriate or damaging. Acknowledging this to yourself or a trusted colleague is the first step toward dealing with it.

Surround Yourself with Allies: Build a support network of people who can help you navigate difficult workplace dynamics. Find mentors and colleagues who uplift you.

Set Boundaries: Learn where your personal boundaries lie. If you cannot address the behaviour directly or leave the situation, create coping strategies to protect your mental and emotional health.

Document Everything: Keep detailed records of incidents and interactions involving toxic behaviour. This documentation can serve as a tool for reflection or as evidence if needed.

Know Your Outcome: Evaluate what you want to achieve before taking action. Do you want to report the behaviour, move to another role, or make it through the current situation? This will guide your decisions.

Seek External Support: Engage with networks like Lead to Soar that offer a safe space to discuss these challenges and provide guidance for navigating workplace obstacles.

This episode is a must-listen for women who have encountered challenging dynamics with senior women colleagues. It encourages reflection on how we judge leadership behaviours and emphasises the importance of women supporting women in the workplace.

Explore the Lead to Soar network for more strategies and insights on navigating toxic workplace environments or dealing with difficult colleagues.

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Mel Butcher and Michelle Redfern are discussing growth leadership on todays episode. They explore the idea that every employee, regardless of their department or career stage, plays a critical role in driving the growth of their organization. Growth is not limited to revenue and sales—it extends to overall impact, customer satisfaction, and internal efficiency. The episode also emphasizes that leadership manifests at all levels, from early career professionals to C-suite executives. Michelle shares insights on how understanding the business of the business and aligning with organizational strategy is essential for contributing to growth.

Episode Highlights:

Growth Leadership for Everyone: All organizations aim to grow, and this responsibility isn't limited to those in sales or customer-facing roles. Every employee contributes to this growth.

Understanding BQ (Business Intelligence): Early career professionals should focus on understanding how their role fits into the broader organizational goals. Knowing the organization's growth strategy is essential.

Positional Purpose: Each role within a company has a purpose that ties back to the strategic objectives. Michelle stresses the importance of knowing how your role contributes to the organization's success.

Collaboration and Team Contribution: Leadership is not just about doing your job, it's about helping others and collaborating effectively to ensure the team succeeds together.

Curiosity and Engagement: Being curious about the organization’s objectives and asking thoughtful questions can help employees align their work with the business’s overall goals. Managers are encouraged to foster curiosity in their teams.

Middle and Senior Management's Role: These managers are responsible for translating the organization’s strategy into action. They must ensure their teams understand how their daily work contributes to the company’s larger objectives.

Executive Leadership: For executives, growth leadership involves setting the vision, aligning resources, and ensuring the company’s strategy is clear at all levels.

Culture and Communication: Effective leaders create environments that are transparent, encourage collaboration, and enable employees to contribute to organizational goals.

Leadership Call to Action:

For Early Career Professionals:

Understand the business of the business—learn about your company’s growth strategy and how your role contributes.

Develop a curiosity about organizational objectives and ask questions about how your work ties to the company's strategic goals.

Be proactive in sharing knowledge and collaborating with your peers to uplift the team’s performance.

For Middle and Senior Managers:

Prioritize strategic alignment by translating the company's goals into clear, actionable steps for your team.

Ensure everyone in your team understands how their work impacts the organization’s broader objectives and that they’re rowing in the same direction.

Remove barriers and provide enablers that help your team thrive and contribute to growth.

For Executives:

Focus on creating a strong communication strategy that ensures everyone is aligned with the company’s vision and goals.

Build a culture where employees feel empowered to innovate, solve problems, and contribute to the organization’s growth in unexpected ways.

Read The Leadership Compass to discover more www.michelleredfern.com/books

Why You Must Know Your Positional Purpose: https://www.bebusinesssavvy.com/podcasts/be-business-savvy-create-a-career-that-soars/episodes/2148419633

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In this episode of the Lead to Soar podcast, host Michelle Redfern welcomes back Noa Rein, an organizational psychologist and HR advisor, to discuss navigating career crossroads. Together, they explore the concept of being the main character in your career story and the challenges of decision-making when faced with career transitions. Noa shares her expert insights on how individuals, especially women, can recognize when they are at a career crossroads, the emotions and fears that often accompany it, and how to take control of the narrative of their career. They also discuss the power of imagination, the importance of reflection, and practical tools to help people move forward with agency.

Episode Highlights:

What is a Career Crossroad?

Noa defines a career crossroad as the moment when you recognize you're in transition. It's often marked by feelings of being stuck or lost, or external events like redundancy. While change can feel overwhelming, it's crucial to see it as an opportunity for growth.

Internal vs. External Crossroads:

Career transitions can be internally generated (e.g., feeling unfulfilled) or externally imposed (e.g., being laid off). Both require self-awareness and reflection to navigate.

Recognizing Misalignment in Your Career:

Noa emphasizes that feelings of “meh” or dissatisfaction can indicate a deeper misalignment between who you are now and what you're doing. These feelings are key signals that it's time for change.

The Role of Imagination and Exploration:

Career exploration begins with curiosity. Noa encourages using imagination to explore new possibilities without the immediate pressure to act. Asking questions like "What am I longing for?" can spark powerful insights.

Agency in Career Transitions:

Both Michelle and Noa discuss how understanding that you are the author of your own career story gives you agency. Reflecting on your experiences and considering alternative paths can empower you to make deliberate career decisions.

Letting Go of the Past:

One of the hardest parts of navigating a career crossroads is letting go of past investments, both emotional and professional. But letting go is essential to move forward and embrace new opportunities.

Leadership Call to Action:

1. Reflect on Your Current Path: Take a moment to assess your career satisfaction. Are you feeling aligned with your current work, or is there a “meh” sensation creeping in? Make time for self-reflection.

2. Give Yourself Permission to Explore: Use your imagination to consider new possibilities without the pressure to act right away. What are you longing for in your career? Begin by allowing yourself to dream.

3. Find Your Spark: Identify small moments or thoughts that stand out to you, like a spark on a blank page. Let those moments guide you toward deeper exploration.

4. Practice Self-Compassion: As you navigate career transitions, show yourself kindness. Let go of the narrative that you need to have everything figured out immediately. Progress, not perfection, is key.

5. Seek Support: Whether through a mentor, coach, or peer network like Lead to Soar, find a buddy who can support you through your transition. Remember, no one navigates their career alone.

Connect with Noa on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/noaerein/?originalSubdomain=au or at Career Science: https://www.careerscience.com.au/index.html

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In this episode of the Lead to Soar podcast, Michelle Redfern and Mel Butcher discuss the persistent workplace gender gap, its causes, and actionable steps to close it. The conversation covers the current state of gender disparity in leadership roles, the impact on women's economic potential, and strategies for organizations and managers to foster gender equity. They also highlight the importance of business intelligence (BQ) skills for women and discuss resources like the Lead to Soar Summit and Michelle's book, "The Leadership Compass."

Episode Highlights

Current State of the Gender Gap: Women have lower workforce participation, higher unemployment, and hold fewer leadership positions globally.

Economic Impact: The gender wage gap leads to significantly lower retirement savings for women, contributing to higher rates of poverty among older women.

Causes of the Gender Gap:

Corporate Systems: Policies and practices that inadvertently hold women back.

Managers' Mindsets: Unexamined biases affecting decisions about women's advancement.

Women’s Skills: Lack of exposure to critical business, strategic, and financial acumen (BQ).

Actions for Leaders and Managers:

Develop a Gender Equity Strategy: Include DEI accountability and skill sets in leadership.

Implement Transparent Performance Evaluations: Ensure women are evaluated on performance, not personality.

Support Working Families: Promote shared caregiving responsibilities.

Invest in Women's Professional Development: Focus on building BQ skills.

The Importance of Strategic Networking: Aligning networking efforts with personal and organizational goals for effective career advancement.

Lead to Soar Summit: An event offering workshops, keynote speakers, and panels with C-suite women to help women develop leadership skills and build strategic networks.

Leadership Call to Action

Diagnose the Current State: Understand your organization’s leadership gender gap through diagnostics and lived experiences.

Define Goals and Design a Blueprint: Set clear goals for gender equity and create a detailed plan to achieve them.

Develop DEI Accountability: Build DEI skill sets in leaders and ensure they are held accountable for gender equity.

Evaluate and Adjust Managerial Practices: Train managers to recognize and correct biases and to actively support women’s career advancement.

Invest in BQ Skill Development: Provide women with opportunities to build and demonstrate business, strategic, and financial acumen.

Promote Inclusive Workplaces: Develop policies that support family responsibilities and career mobility for women.

Encourage Strategic Networking: Help women build networks aligned with their career goals and organizational objectives.

Join the Leadership Summits: Participate in events like the Lead to Soar Summit to gain insights and actionable strategies for closing the leadership gender gap.

Lead to Soar is a multi-platform resource for ambitious women on a leadership journey and for organisations serious about closing the leadership gender gap.

We support women and organisations in 5 ways;

The Lead to Network: https://leadtosoar.network/landing

The Lead to Soar Podcast: https://shows.acast.com/lead-to-soar

The Lead to Soar Summit: https://www.leadtosoar.com/summit

Women’s Leadership Programs: https://www.michelleredfern.com/advancing-women-in-business-sport

DEI Consulting & Advisory: https://www.michelleredfern.com/consulting

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