summaryThis conversation explores the unique perspectives of the Gospels, particularly focusing on the historical context of the Hebrew people, the rise and rule of Herod the Great, and the implications of Jesus' birth in relation to Herod's tyranny. It delves into the narrative parallels between Moses and Jesus, the significance of lamentation as a form of resistance, and the overarching theme of power dynamics in biblical history. The discussion culminates in reflections on authenticity and the nature of silence in the face of oppression.

takeaways

• Different Gospels target different audiences with unique perspectives.
• Herod the Great's rule was marked by violence and political maneuvering.
• The historical context of the Hebrew people is crucial to understanding the Gospels.
• Herod's fear of losing power led to the slaughter of innocent children.
• The narrative aligns Jesus with Moses, framing him as a new leader.
• God communicates through dreams, bypassing traditional power structures.
• Lamentation is a vital form of resistance against oppression.
• Herod's death symbolizes the triumph of Jesus' life and message.
• Matthew's account seeks to correct the narrative surrounding Herod.
• Silence can lead to authenticity and self-discovery.

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This reflection explores love as a disruptive, risky, and compassionate force revealed in the Advent story of Joseph and Mary. Rather than portraying love as perfection or rule-following, it shows how imperfect love—choosing mercy over fear and presence over withdrawal—is enough to bring God into the world. Joseph’s decision to stay, despite uncertainty and social risk, reframes righteousness as compassion and justice as mercy, inviting listeners to see love as embodied courage in liminal, in-between spaces.

Liminal Space and Advent Love
Life is lived in “in-between” spaces where transformation and possibility emerge; Advent highlights love within this liminality.

The Disruption of the Virgin Birth
God breaks patriarchal and monarchical expectations by entering the world quietly, without coercion or male control.

Joseph’s Imperfect Love
Joseph follows the law yet chooses mercy, redefining righteousness as compassion rather than strict rule-keeping.

Love Resists Sanctioned Violence
Love stands against violence even when that violence is justified by religion or law.

God Interrupts Closed Systems
Through dreams and divine invitation, God opens new possibilities beyond fear-driven decisions.

Love Must Be Embodied
Love is not an idea or doctrine but something lived out through risky, faithful action.

Risky Fidelity Over Safe Withdrawal
Joseph chooses to stay and grow through love rather than escape discomfort.

Reflection and Practice
Listeners are invited into self-examination and imaginative prayer to embody love in their own lives.

Love often arrives as disruption, not certainty

Imperfect love is still enough to bring God into the world

Righteousness is compassion, not mere rule-following

Justice and mercy are inseparable

Love resists fear-driven withdrawal

God opens new possibilities when systems feel closed

Love grows when fear is faced rather than avoided

Staying present can be a holy, transformative act

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In this episode, Dr. Tom Rundel explores the themes of Advent, focusing on peace as a central concept. He reflects on personal experiences of chaos and stress, particularly during a planned power outage, and contrasts these with moments of genuine peace found in community service. The discussion delves into the nature of peace, emphasizing that it is not merely the absence of chaos but a powerful force that can disrupt unjust systems. The episode concludes with a reflection on expectations and how they can blind us to the peace that exists in our lives.

takeaways

• Advent is a time for reflection on hope, joy, and peace.
• Peace is not just tranquility; it is a deeper state of being.
• Experiencing chaos can lead to a greater understanding of peace.
• Expectations can blind us to the peace present in our lives.
• True peace can disrupt unjust systems and promote liberation.
• Peace exists in every moment, regardless of circumstances.
• Breath meditation can help tap into inner peace.
• Community service can be a source of genuine peace.
• Peace is a generous contribution to the good of all.
• The world is not saved through force but by a change of consciousness.

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He contrasts joy with happiness, emphasizing that joy is a deeper, more resilient state that can coexist with sorrow and is not dependent on circumstances. The discussion also delves into the historical context of apartheid in South Africa and how Tutu's joyful spirit served as a powerful form of resistance against oppression. The conversation concludes with an invitation to meditate on joy and its significance in our lives.

takeaways

• Advent is a preparation for the arrival of God into our lives.
• Joy is not an emotion but a resilient state of being.
• Happiness can be tied to brain chemicals like dopamine, but joy transcends that.
• Desmond Tutu exemplified joy in the face of oppression.
• Joy can coexist with sorrow and is rooted in reality.
• Repentance is about awakening to one's true self.
• Joy is a revolutionary force that cannot be governed.
• The fire of God is illuminating and cleansing, not punitive.
• Joy invites us to new beginnings and deeper connections.
• Meditating on joy can help us connect with our true selves.

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In this episode, Tom Rundel explores the concept of hope versus toxic positivity, particularly within the context of Advent and the Christian faith. He discusses how hope is often misunderstood as mere optimism or positivity, and instead argues that true hope involves acknowledging reality and potential, even in the face of despair. Rundel shares personal insights and experiences, emphasizing the importance of co-authoring a better future with God, rather than relying on clichéd narratives.

Takeaways

• The majority of our life is lived in liminal space.
• Hope is not a denial of reality but an awareness of it.
• Toxic positivity replaces reality with comforting narratives.
• True hope involves acknowledging both reality and potential.
• Bad theology insulates us from reality.
• Hope is born when the human spirit confronts despair.
• We are participants in God's unfolding future.
• Hope requires co-authoring a better future with God.
• Clichés are not true theology but can be comforting.
• Hope travels through despair to reach the other side.

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In this episode, Tom Rundel explores the meaning of Christ the King Sunday, the conclusion of the liturgical year, and uses Psalm 46 to challenge the common Western tendency to treat God as a mere idea rather than an embodied reality. Rundel unpacks the Psalmist’s imagery—refuge, river, stillness—to point listeners toward a faith that is lived, practiced, and experienced in the body, not simply thought in the mind. He contrasts the biblical embodied pathway of spiritual trust with the modern habit of “spiritual bypassing,” urging listeners to regulate their nervous systems not with ideas but with grounding practices, presence, and embodied trust. In a world that feels like it is shaking, this episode reframes stillness as a revolutionary act of faith. 

Key Takeaway Moments 
Liturgical time shapes us: The liturgical calendar exists to form us, not to reflect our preferences or current news cycles. Christ the King Sunday was created to resist nationalism: 
Pope Pius XI introduced it in 1925 in response to rising secularism, nationalism, and authoritarianism after World War I. 
Psalm 46 is embodied, not abstract: God as refuge is comparable to a life-saving oasis in an actual desert—not an inspirational concept but a physical experience. 
Ideas alone cannot calm the nervous system: Overthinking spiritual truths cannot regulate fear, anxiety, or overwhelm; we need embodied practices. 
God is encountered in the physical world: Walks in nature, shared meals, prayer, meditation, therapy, community, and rhythms of grounding connect us with divine presence. 
Be still = “Stop it”: The Hebrew phrase carries the tone of a sharp interruption—God breaking into human anxiety, war, and inner conflict. Your identity is not your performance: We must detach our self-worth from opinions, productivity, and inner narratives. 
Divine life flows through reality like a river: God is woven into creation’s fabric, inviting us into steady presence rather than frantic striving. 
Stillness is not passivity but resistance: Trust is an active response that disrupts fear, violence, and domination—within society and within ourselves. 

Chapter Breakdown 
1. The Liturgical Year and Christ the King Sunday Tom explains how the liturgical calendar shapes Christian reflection and why Christ the King Sunday was added in 1925 as a response to nationalism and authoritarianism. 
2. Introducing Psalm 46 He situates the Psalm as an ancient song meant to be sung, full of poetic imagery that speaks to a trembling world. 
3. God as Refuge — More Than an Idea Tom describes the wilderness of the Sinai Peninsula and the oasis at En Gedi to illustrate that God as “refuge” was originally a lived survival experience, not an abstract thought. 
4. Ideas vs. Embodied Faith He critiques Western Christianity’s tendency to reduce faith to thoughts, arguing that nervous systems cannot be soothed by ideas alone. 
5. Experiencing God Through the Body Tom highlights spiritual grounding practices—walks, rest, prayer, therapy, worship—as places where divine presence is actually encountered. 
6. The River of God Using imagery from ancient Egypt and Jerusalem, he shows how rivers symbolized life, stability, and divine presence in the midst of chaos. 
7. “Be Still” as a Divine Intervention Tom reframes “be still and know” as God forcefully stopping human violence and inner chaos—less gentle contemplation, more “stop it.” 
8. The Inner War He identifies the internal battles of self-worth, anxiety, and fear, urging listeners to stop fueling the war through performance and self-criticism. 
9. God Woven Into Reality He quotes Ilya Delio and others to describe divine life as flowing through the cosmos; faith becomes an embodied way of being. 
10. Reflection & Practice Tom offers reflection questions and a spiritual practice for the week, ending with a poem titled Still Here by Paul A. Jones.

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In this episode of Liminal Living, Tom Rundel welcomes theologian and author Bruce Epperly back for his third appearance to discuss his new book, Healing the World: Whitehead, Francis, Clare, and Bonaventure on Spiritual and Planetary Transformation. Their conversation flows through themes of hope, mysticism, process theology, and spiritual imagination in a world in need of healing.

They explore how Francis of Assisi, Clare, and Bonaventure embodied a spirituality of simplicity and interconnection that can inspire today’s efforts toward peace, ecological care, and compassionate living. Bruce also shares insights from Alfred North Whitehead’s process philosophy, drawing connections between divine immanence and the living presence of God within creation.

From stories of pilgrimage in Ireland to reflections on hope amid political despair, the conversation invites listeners to see each moment as sacred, each small act as part of healing the moral and spiritual fabric of the world.

Chapters

1. Pilgrimage and Peace in Ireland – Bruce recounts his trip with Gareth Higgins and Diana Butler Bass, exploring lessons from Northern Ireland’s peacemaking for today’s polarized world.
2. Hope Beyond Despair – Discussing the moral arc of history, Jeremiah’s field, and faith in uncertain times.
3. The Inspiration for Healing the World – How synchronicity, Whitehead, and Francis converged in Bruce’s creative and theological journey.
4. Francis, Clare, and Bonaventure – Mini-biographies and their radical simplicity, feminism, philosophy, and spiritual clarity.
5. Process Theology and Mysticism – The union of Whitehead’s philosophy with Franciscan spirituality; God as immanent, relational, and present in all things.
6. Reimagining Prayer and Presence – Tom shares a personal story about reframing prayer and blessing through a process-oriented, Celtic lens.
7. Healing vs. Curing the World – Bruce’s distinction between transformation and domination; hope through faithful small acts.
8. The Song That Cannot Be Taken Away – Francis’s joy on his deathbed and the spiritual defiance of singing amid darkness.

Prophetic Healing and Hope – Speaking truth with compassion, judgment as healing, and love as resistance.

Invitation to Participate – Bruce encourages listeners to join the movement of healing through group study, contemplation, and daily acts of love.

Takeaways

• Hope is active—it’s “buying a field” for a future you may never see.
• Healing begins in small acts; the world changes one moment at a time.
• Francis and Clare broke boundaries between rich and poor, male and female, human and non-human.
• God is not distant or supernatural but interwoven through all of creation.
• Prayer is not about summoning God but awakening awareness of divine presence already within the moment.
• True spirituality bridges barriers—between people, faiths, and even species.
• Prophetic healing names injustice while seeking reconciliation, not destruction.
• Music and joy are sacred resistance against fear and despair.
• Each person contributes to the ongoing creation through small faithful actions aligned with love.

Links

web: https://www.drbruceepperly.com/

Book: Healing the World: Whitehead, Francis, Clare, Bonaventure

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In this engaging conversation, Tom Rundel and Kathy Khang explore the complexities of faith, deconstruction, and the journey towards reimagining spirituality in a modern context. They discuss the importance of love, community, and the challenges of navigating conversations with differing perspectives. Kathy shares her insights on embodied theology, the significance of human connection, and the need for authenticity in faith practices. The dialogue emphasizes the importance of acknowledging past mistakes, trusting one's voice, and finding magic in everyday moments, ultimately advocating for a more compassionate and human-centered approach to spirituality.

takeaways

• Kathy emphasizes the importance of love in understanding God.
• Navigating tensions between love and anger is crucial in today's world.
• Conversations with differing perspectives require discernment and good faith.
• Embodied theology connects faith with physical experiences.
• Authenticity in faith practices is a challenge for many.
• Human connection is vital in moments of grief and loss.
• Language shapes our faith and community interactions.
• Trusting our voices requires acknowledging past mistakes.
• Making peace with our past is essential for growth.
• Finding magic in everyday moments enriches our spiritual journey.

Chapters

• 00:00 Welcome Back and Coffee Conversations
• 03:03 Deconstructing Faith and Reimagining God
• 06:01 Living in Tension: Love and Anger
• 09:10 Navigating Conversations with Different Perspectives
• 11:50 Embodied Theology: Experiencing God in the Physical World
• 15:02 Reconnecting with Humanity and Faith
• 17:58 The Challenge of Authenticity in Faith
• 20:49 Human Connection in Grief and Loss
• 23:59 The Role of Language in Faith and Community
• 27:03 Trusting Our Voices in a Changing Landscape
• 30:14 Making Peace with Our Past
• 33:01The Journey of Transformation and Mistakes
• 36:01 Finding Magic in Everyday Moments
• 38:57 The Power of Presence and Community
• 41:47 Navigating the Complexity of Faith and Identity
• 45:02 Final Thoughts on Faith and Humanity

Links:

Kathy's Books {Click Here]

web: http://www.kathykhang.com/

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takeaways

• If a good God exists, why does suffering occur?
• We often attribute suffering to a greater good.
• The mystery of God's plan can be hard to understand.
• Tragedies like cancer and war challenge our beliefs.
• Supernaturalism becomes problematic when faced with evil.
• The death of children raises profound questions about faith.
• World events like the Holocaust complicate the narrative of a good God.
• Understanding suffering requires deep philosophical inquiry.
• Faith can be tested by the realities of life.
• The conversation highlights the struggle between belief and evidence.

Links:
Book: [Click Here]

Article: [Beyond the Pitchfork]

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Deconstruction is a journey many are experiencing.

The dichotomy of natural and supernatural is outdated.

Prayer should be seen as cooperation with God.

God's omnipotence is often misunderstood.

Selective miracles create distrust in God.

Enchantment in the world is often overlooked.

Philosophy and theology should work together.

Resurrection narratives can be reinterpreted.

Life after death may involve continued subjective experience.

Trust in God can be rebuilt through understanding God's nature.

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