In a swanky high-rise apartment, just beyond the Thunderdome, Layman sits down with Jason the McClain to talk about the attractions and the limitations of libertarianism, Jason's early formative experiences with it, and the experiences and insights that eventually led him to leave it behind. From a meta-level, they also discuss what it means, and what it takes, to be ready to let go of one's earlier convictions and to remain open, ongoingly, to further learning, growth, and transformation.