MERICS China Podcast

The different interpretations of de-risking, the need for cooperation and the next steps on the EU agenda on economic security are the topics of the final part of our series on de-risking. Johannes Heller-John is joined by Francesca Ghiretti, an Analyst at MERICS focusing on EU-China relations and economic security. 

Francesca hosted the previous episodes with Emily Benson, Director at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, on the US and de-risking, and with Kazuto Suzuki, Director of the Institute of Geo-economics in Tokyo, on Japan and de-risking. This podcast series was recorded at the sidelines of the Advancing Economic Security Forum in Berlin in July 2023.

Tokyo’s approach to de-risking, the role of Japan’s Minister for Economic Security and the specific challenges of and the need for multilateral cooperation in economic security issues are the topics in this episode of the MERICS China Podcast. MERICS Analyst Francesca Ghiretti talked to Kazuto Suzuki, Director of the Institute of Geoeconomics and professor at University of Tokyo, on the sidelines of the Advancing Economic Security Forum  in July 2023.

This is the second episode of our short series on de-risking. You can listen to the first episode on the US and de-risking featuring Emily Benson (CSIS) here. 

In July 2023, MERICS hosted the Advancing Economic Security Forum, previously known as the Allied Economic Forum. The discussions on what goods and investments should flow freely and which should be put under more scrutiny, on what constitutes military or civilian uses of goods and services and on how the global economic landscape is changing, are part of an ongoing and expanding field concerned with economic security. Due to its global power and influence, China is a major factor in the discussions between the US and its allies and partners around the world.

In this first episode of our short series on de-risking, MERICS Analyst Francesca Ghiretti talks to Emily Benson, Director of the Project on Trade and Technology at CSIS, about the US’ understanding of de-risking, export controls and the importance of Europe for the US in the area of economic security. The interview was recorded at the sidelines of the Advancing Economic Security Forum.

International sanctions have become a common tool in the relationship between the US, the EU, and China in the last decade. If we add the sanctions on Russia in connection with its full-scale invasion of Ukraine into the mix and the question of Chinese adherence or circumvention of them, it seems high time that we devote some time to talking about Chinese thinking on this tool of international coercion.

In this episode of the MERICS China Podcast, we talk to MERICS Analyst Francesca Ghiretti, who has recently written a report on the evolution of China’s sanction regime, and IISS Senior Fellow Maria Shagina, who among other topics focusses her research on the issues of Russia and international sanctions. Questions by Johannes Heller-John.

Recommended reading:

• How China imposes sanctions – A guide to the evolution of Beijing’s new policy tool, MERICS Report by Francesca Ghiretti
• The imperative to build and sustain sanctioning coalitions. IISS Analysis by Maria Shagina
• Russia faces the slow burn of economic sanctions, IISS Analysis by Maria Shagina

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This podcast episode is part of the “Dealing with a Resurgent China” (DWARC) project, which has received funding from the European Union’s Horizon Europe research and innovation programme under grant agreement number 101061700.

Views and opinions expressed are however those of the author(s) only and do not necessarily reflect those of the European Union. Neither the European Union nor the granting authority can be held responsible for them.

China has extended its High-Speed Rail network from about 9.000 to 42.000 km of tracks with a fleet of Chinese made trains running on it. The first fully domestically engineered passenger aircraft C919 has started its commercial service and on June 6, the first domestically built large cruise ship has left Shanghai for sea trials. China is undoubtedly making rapid progress in air, sea and rail transportation.

What are China’s aims and what challenges does it face on the way? And what does this mean for European industries? To answer these questions, Alexander Brown and Gregor Sebastian, analysts at the economic team at MERICS, join Johannes Heller-John for a conversation.


This podcast episode is part of the “Dealing with a Resurgent China” (DWARC) project, which has received funding from the European Union’s Horizon Europe research and innovation programme under grant agreement number 101061700.

Views and opinions expressed are however those of the author(s) only and do not necessarily reflect those of the European Union. Neither the European Union nor the granting authority can be held responsible for them.

Dealing with China is becoming increasingly difficult for German and European politics and business. In this episode MERICS Director Communications and Publications Claudia Wessling talks to MERICS Director External Relations Bernhard Bartsch and lead author of a new study titled “Shaky China – Five scenarios for Xi Jinping’s third term” which looks at five different pathways for how China could develop in the next five years. They discuss the aim of the study, the main scenarios used for the paper and the value of scenario exercises, especially in the case of China.

Im Dezember 2022 beendete die chinesische Regierung jäh ihre Null-Covid Politik. Wie hat sich der Raum für öffentliche Debatten im letzten Jahr verändert? Wie werden Chinas Ambitionen und Herausforderungen diskutiert? Und warum sollten wir Debatten in China genauer erforschen? Antworten dazu liefern die Projektleiterinnen von China Spektrum: Kristin Shi-Kupfer, Professorin für Sinologie an der Universität Trier mit Schwerpunkt Digitales China, und Katja Drinhausen, Leiterin des Programms Innenpolitik und Gesellschaft am MERICS. Das Interview führte Johannes Heller-John.

In this episode of the MERICS China Podcast, former MERICS German Chancellor fellow Michael Laha talks to Prof. Taylor Fravel, Arthur and Ruth Sloan Professor in Political Science at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), about the recently published MIT China Strategy. The document puts forth a set of guidelines for one of the world’s most important research university’s engagement with China. 

In 2022, Chinese global outbound foreign direct investment (or FDI) has fallen to an 8-year low. Accordingly, figures for Chinese investment in Europe are also down, hitting the lowest mark since 2013. This episode accompanies a new report by MERICS and Rhodium Group on Chinese FDI in Europe.

Two of its authors, Agatha Kratz, Director at Rhodium Group and leader of its research on Europe-China relations and China’s economic statecraft, and Gregor Sebastian, Analyst at MERICS, talk about the scope and distribution of Chinese FDI in Europe, the reasons for the lowest FDI figures in the last decade, and how the key role of Europe in China’s electric vehicle expansion served as a saving grace. The conversation was led by Johannes Heller-John.

How to handle relations with China is an important aspect of the trade and tech coordination between the EU and the US. Ahead of the coming Trade and Technology Council (TTC) meeting in late May, we ask where the transatlantic cooperation on trade and technology currently stands, what de-risking and decoupling relations with China would mean for Europe, and how the EU and the US aim to promote tech innovation.

To answer these questions, we are joined by Rebecca Arcesati, Lead Analyst at MERICS working on Science, Technology and Innovation Policy, as well as Hosuk Lee-Makiyama, Director of the European Centre for International Political Economy. He has advised European member states on issues relating to the United Nations and the World Trade Organization and published on Chinese digital trade and its Information and Communication Technology sector. Johannes Heller-John moderated the conversation.