Church planting is thriving at the very moment the church faces a crisis of credibility. What if the problem isn't too few churches—but too narrow a vision of what church is for?

In this episode with Mark Labberton, Brad Brisco reflects on church planting shaped by Christology before strategy, mission before institution, and incarnation before programs. Together they discuss missionary imagination in the modern West, co-vocational ministry, alternative expressions of church, micro-church networks, church growth assumptions, vocation and work, justice and proximity, and what it means to return—daily—to the ways of Jesus.

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Episode Highlights

"We need to help church planters think less like pastors starting a Sunday service and more like missionaries engaging a unique context."

"If by church we mean buildings, then no—we don't need more of those."

"Mission isn't really ours. It's about what God's already doing."

"We can say we're gospel-centered and still miss the ways of Jesus."

"The only way the church gets this far off is by being void of the ways of Jesus."

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About Brad Brisco

Brad Brisco is a missiologist and church planting leader, trainer, and writer who has spent more than twenty-five years coaching and resourcing church planters across North America. After beginning his career in the restaurant industry, Brisco entered ministry through church planting and later joined Send Network, where his work has focused on alternative expressions of church, co-vocational leadership, and missionally engaged discipleship.

He also serves on the national leadership team for Forge America Mission Training Network. Brad is the co-author of "Missional Essentials," a 12-week small group study guide, "The Missional Quest: Becoming a Church of the Long Run" and "Next Door As It Is In Heaven."

He is widely known for challenging church growth assumptions and for advocating Christ-centered, incarnational approaches that integrate faith, work, and neighborhood life.

Brisco remains closely connected to decentralized microchurch networks and innovative models of mission in urban contexts.

Follow him on X: https://x.com/bradleybrisco

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Helpful Links and Resources

Missional Church Network https://www.missionalchurchnetwork.com/

Send Network https://sendnetwork.com

The Shaping of Things to Come – Alan Hirsch and Michael Frost https://www.amazon.com/Shaping-Things-Come-Innovation-Mission/dp/1565636597

Permanent Revolution – Alan Hirsch https://www.amazon.com/Permanent-Revolution-Apostolic-Imagination-Practice/dp/0470907746

Tampa Underground https://www.tampaunderground.com/

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Show Notes

• Church planting boom alongside institutional church crisis
• Restaurant business background shaping entrepreneurial ministry instincts
• Conversion, seminary, and inherited assumptions about "real" ministry
• Early confusion about church planting as a category
• From planting one church to training planters nationally
• Church defined beyond buildings toward embodied communities
• "If by church we mean buildings, then no—we don't need more of those."
• Missionary context of the modern West
• Do we need more churches or more ways of being church?
• Underserved neighborhoods and unengaged people groups
• Declining interest in traditional church programs
• Airplane anecdote exposing attractional church assumptions
• "You just need a really good sound system and a good speaker."
• Mission versus Sunday-centric church planting
• Christology–missiology–ecclesiology framework
• Jesus shaping mission before shaping church
• "Most church planters start with ecclesiology rather than the ways of Jesus."
• Church growth movement assumptions challenged
• Recapturing the missionary nature of the church
• Church as sent people, not religious service provider
• Incarnational presence in neighborhoods and workplaces
• "Mission isn't something we do over there."
• Participation in the mission of God
• "The mission isn't really ours—it's about what God's already doing."
• Individual salvation versus communal discipleship
• Robust Christology beyond the cross alone
• Incarnation, life, resurrection, and kingdom shaping mission
• Brokenness, proximity, and responsibility for place
• Mission as communal, not individual activity
• Bi-vocational and co-vocational ministry distinctions
• Marketplace calling as missional advantage
• Sacred–secular divide challenged
• Time constraints forcing alternative church models
• Team-based leadership as non-negotiable
• Theology of work as essential formation
• Financial freedom reshaping church planting incentives
• Fully funded models drifting toward attractional pressure
• Co-vocational longevity and sustainability
• Microchurch networks and decentralized leadership
• Tampa Underground as proof of concept
• Mission-first communities addressing justice and brokenness
• "Mission is the mother of adaptive ecclesiology."
• Diverse expressions emerging from contextual mission
• Established churches learning from church planting frameworks
• Incremental versus wholesale institutional change
• Sending churches supporting new expressions
• Calling the church back to the ways of Jesus
• "We can be gospel-centered and still miss the ways of Jesus."
• Credibility gap between Jesus and the church today
• Recalibrating discipleship for public faithfulness

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#ChurchPlanting

#MissionalChurch

#FaithAndWork

#Discipleship

#ChristianLeadership

#PublicFaith

#Vocation

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Production Credits

Conversing is produced and distributed in partnership with Comment Magazine and Fuller Seminary.