What happens when rather than get in close to the sticky issues of Mormonism you step back? In fact step back so far as to see the 30,000 foot view and look at what Mormonism has standing in the way of its truth claims. And how such speaks to just how reasonable and rational it is to release one’s belief in the faith and to step away having allowed oneself to be a rational logical critical thinking human being.
What happens when rather than get in close to the sticky issues of Mormonism you step back? In fact step back so far as to see the 30,000 foot view and look at what Mormonism has standing in the way of its truth claims. And how such speaks to just how reasonable and rational it is to release one’s belief in the faith and to step away having allowed oneself to be a rational logical critical thinking human being.
Scriptural Issues
Book of Mormon 19th Century Material
Book of Mormon Anachronisms
Plagiarism from New Testament
Book of Abraham issues
Bible Translation plagiarized from Adam Clarke’s commentary
Theological changes in canon over time
2nd and 3rd Isaiah
Spiritual Manifestation Issue
Moroni vs Nephi
First Vision Discrepancies
Seeing the Cumorah Cave in Palmyra New York in spite of being a clean hill
Peter James and John PH restoration added late
Moroni blessing Manti
Brigham Young Transfiguration
Issues with Joseph Smith’s Character
Lying about polygamy to Emma and others
Manipulating Lucy Walker
Pattern of approaching girls or young women in his home for intimate relationships (Lucy Walker, Fanny Alger, Partridge Sisters, Lawrence Sisters)
Polyandry
Nancy Rigdon & The Happiness Letter
Underage girls (two 14 year olds, two 16 year olds, two 17 year olds)
Treasure Digging
Other financial frauds: Kirtland anti-bank, land issues, bad loans
Science and Critical Thinking
Great Flood
Tower of Babel
Shiz rises after head cut off
2000 stripling warriors in a battle with a more experienced larger military force and not a single soul was lost not to the battle and not to infection afterwards inspite of many fainting from bloodloss
Battles in the Millions around Cumorah and what it takes to have military engagement that large
Moroni blessing Manti
Trans Oceanic Voyage
Lamanite DNA
Age of the earth & Evolution
Church Administration
Second Anointings
100’s of Billions of dollars saved in investments rather than solving world problems
Nepotism
Leaders are insulated and promote yes men
Well paid Leaders
SCMC
Past Prophetic Deception
Adam God Doctrine
Racial Curse and Racial Valiancy
Joseph Smith mock wedding with Partridge Sisters
Treasure Digging
Mountain Meadows (Brigham’s destruction of the marker and lying about it and blaming the Native Americans)
1890, 1904 Manifesto
1933 lying about the 1886 John Taylor Revelation
Modern Prophetic Deception
Elder Holland (BBC Interview, Story about missionary meeting his brother, Double Digit Stake Creation every week of our lives)
Paul Dunn
President Nelson (Flight of Death, Zimbabwe, Lady in the hat)
Bruce R McConkie lying about Brigham teaching Adam God
Elder Oaks lying about Electroshock Therapy at BYU under his presidency
Whitewashing and carefully worded denials of the Gospel Topic Essays
Tom Monson Jr
Quinton Cook – Hospital
Gordon B Hinkley “I don’t know that we teach it. I don’t know that we emphasize it”
Ronald Poelman and the re-do of his conference talk
False or embellished Faith Promoting stories
Seagulls and Crickets
Sweetwater Crossing
Holland, Nelson yarn stretchers
Brigham Young Transfiguration
Whale of a tale
Wilfor Woodruff Founding Fathers
Lorenzo Snow’s Jesus Visitation
Trauma Placed On Members
Temple (Sexism, Objectifying Women, Penalties)
One on One interviews with children and others by an untrained clergy
“Worthiness” interviews
Toxic Perfectionism
Patriarchy Marginalizing women
Marginalization of people of color
Destruction of idiginous people’s identity
“Indian Placement Program”
Diminishing those who lose faith with labels (chaff, lazy, sinful)
Not having a single good story about those who leave
Gaslighting people continuously regarding their history
All the harm with polygamy
Claiming Tithing will get you out of Poverty
Social Issues
Women have lesser place in mortality and in heaven
Church still currently maintains that God actually sorted people via their skin color (Be One Celebration)
Church imposes significant harm on LGBT members
Civil Rights was Communism
Not Proactive or reactive on Sexual Abuse
People who stop believing are less than and believers should stay at distance
Always 30-40 years late on almost every social issue in spite of being led by Prophets, Seers, and Revelators
Global/government influences: Defeating ERA, Prop 8, LDS Senator votes for Iraqi War “where boots go, missionaries follow,” the two LDS men (one a Bishop) part of US Govt torture program, cultural appropriation/erasure among Native Americans, Polynesians etc, lobbying against church clergy being mandatory reporters, attempt to make Utah a two-party recording consent state, etc
Stop here and discuss how every facet of Mormonism’s truth claims when dealt with logically are in favor of the critic. That when understood collectively, the only fall back Mormonism has is Spiritual Testimony. That in spite of all the issues, I still believe because I know by the Holy Ghost that it is true. Except the Holy Ghost doesn’t get a free pass
Ineffectiveness of the Holy Ghost as a tool to convey truth
Elevation Emotion
Illusory Truth Effect
Taking Seriously the Spiritual experiences of those outside your faith
How completely wrong past leaders were in spite of their “Knowing”
How wrong members have been at past times holding views with certainty when such views have been abandoned or disavowed
Holy Ghost can be tested and it does no better than no Holy Ghost
Leaders have been deceived
members have been deceived
And as if that isn’t enough if you apply the same critical thinking to Jesus of Nazareth you end up having another pillar of challenges that hits at the truth of Mormonism (Though I admit also all of Christianity)
Historical Jesus
Dating of New Testament Authors
Wrestling with New Testament gospel contradictions
Understanding the prevalent views of Biblical Criticism
How myths are created (Sapiens)
How stories easily get embellished (compare with Mormonism)
How much easier in an age of unverifiable history When supernatural happens and when it doesn’t Issues with the nativity narrative
BONUS ROUND (Not Covered In Episode)
Immoral, harmful beliefs taught as moral and good.
Problems with the concept of “fallen” man (unnecessary guilt and/or lack of personal accountability)
Idolizing parricide as act of “love” and “loyalty” (God + Abraham)
Justifying God’s abusive and narcissistic behaviors as “love”
Forgiveness expected for misbehaving leaders “give Brother Joseph a break”
Lack of empathy/blame for victims
Theological: the Flood, Hell for non-believers, misfortune as punishment (LGBTQ, apostates, etc)
Local/current: blaming SA victims, clergy abuse victims, etc
Internal morality given to God or those perceived to speak for him
Biblical atrocities excused, even genocide
Gives space for modern atrocities to be committed/accepted (even victims sometimes)
Early and modern polygamy/underage rape/trafficking
Modern spouse/child abuse
Murder, theft, imprisonment of apostates/defectors/outsiders (Oliver Cowdery, Danites, Lori Vallow/Chad Daybell)
Obligations to support systems that harm self/others (sexism, Prop 8, etc)
Personal choices/freedoms overridden in favor of the group idealsThe post Mormonism LIVE: 065: Mormonism & The 30,000 Foot View appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.