Ep. 66 - Rescuing an American journalist kidnapped in Afghanistan, thwarting a school shooter, responding to Ground Zero on 9/11 - NYPD Det. Tom Smith (Ret.) did all of it in his 30 years with NYPD. Following in his NYPD Detective father’s footsteps, Tom joined NYPD in 1990 and started in patrol in Harlem. Within a few years he joined the anti-crime team and later Narcotics where he became a detective. He then moved into Gang Investigations in 1998 and then the Robbery unit in the Bronx in 2009.

It was during his time there that 9/11 happened. We will talk about how the day, weeks and months unfolded for him. After 9/11, Tom was assigned to the elite FBI/NYPD Joint Terrorism Task Force (JTTF) for the remaining 17 years of his career. He held a Top Secret/SCI clearance, conducted briefings for representatives of the highest levels of government and traveled to 18 countries to handle complex terrorism investigations. In 2009, Tom was deployed to the war zone in Afghanistan to coordinate the rescue of a New York Times journalist who had been kidnapped by an Al-Qaeda affiliated group. Tom and the JTTF team were able to create and execute a plan to bring this American hostage home. 

We also cover the recent shooting death in December 2024 of United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson in midtown Manhattan. In his time as detective with NYPD, Tom investigated homicides. I wanted to get his take on how this played out from an investigation point of view.

Tom is co-host of the podcast Gold Shields with his buddy retired NYPD Sgt. Dan Murphy. They draw on their considerable law enforcement experience and knowledge to bring listeners the inside story on large scale often well-known investigations and missions by detectives and military operators, as well as criminal behavior, personal stories of survival and more. They reached their 100th episode in 2024 and are launching Season Three in January 2025. Here's where you can find them:

Website www.thegoldshieldshow.com

Instagram: @thegoldshieldsshow

Facebook

LinkedIn

YouTube

Tom also is involved with:

Impact Solutions

Wheelchairs For Warriors

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©Abby Ellsworth. All booking, interviews, editing, and production by Abby Ellsworth. Music courtesy of freesound.org

Ep. 65 To mark the four-year anniversary of the podcast, I’m revisiting earlier episodes with content and issues that remain relevant today. This episode is about the impact of a deadly force encounter on the officer, something that is rarely discussed. I review the powerful documentary “Officer Involved” with the filmmaker Patrick Shaver, a former police officer. Over several years Patrick interviewed law enforcement from around the country about their incident and emotional toll it took on them. He also interviewed mental health experts who have researched and written about the subject. We are all sensitive to the tragedy surrounding deadly use of force on those lost and their loved ones. This film and Patrick’s interview are important elements to understanding the whole story. As Patrick says in the interview, there are two sides to the gun and both people are forever changed. My goal is to help us all better understand what the job really is and show the complexity of what it means to be a police officer.

Also in this interview, Patrick and I talk about his film DINKHELLER. It’s about Deputy Kyle Dinkheller who was tragically killed in GA in 1998 during a traffic stop gone horribly wrong. Many of you know of his incident.

Patrick Shaver has done multiple documentaries showing the human side of law enforcement. You can find out more about him and his work at his website. Patrick funds his work through the proceeds of DVD and streaming sales of his films: http://www.officerinvolvedproject.com/films

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©Abby Ellsworth. All booking, interviews, editing, and production by Abby Ellsworth. Music courtesy of freesound.org

Ep. 64 Imagine policing without a gun or not being approved to drive lights and sirens until three years on the job. I’m talking policing in the UK with Constable Ross who is a response officer with the Hertfordshire Police Department which is about an hour outside of London. Ross has three years on and serves in a patrol capacity.  We are using only his first name for his privacy. He tells me: “The vast majority of officers are unarmed. In fact, the basic package when you're out of training school is a baton, incapacitate spray, handcuffs, leg restraints and a stab vest. And then your wits. That's what you've got.”  

To drive lights and sirens requires extra training that officers have to be put forward for and pass. “You can drive a marked vehicle on your own after your 15 weeks with a training officer, but you can't drive above the speed limit. It does feel ridiculous when someone's needing help, and you have to stop at a red light.”

The other unique aspects to policing on the UK is the challenge of investigating a criminal practice called “county lines,” a method of moving drugs throughout the UK. It’s a way for individual high-level dealers to obfuscate themselves away from the street and therefore away from the evidence. They groom young people with no criminal record to transport the drugs on the trains using burner phones which is what he means by “lines.” 

Also of interest are two high-profile homicide incidents that were occurring in the UK at the time of this interview, one of which caused weeks of rioting. And one of which involved a cross bow as the murder weapon!

We talk about the shared negative narrative on law enforcement, staffing issues, what 2020 was like in the UK, the tough calls and the rewards as well as Ross’ family history of serving in law enforcement. I appreciate Ross’ reaching out to me from across the pond and getting perspective on what it’s like for a new officer these days.

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©Abby Ellsworth. All booking, interviews, editing, and production by Abby Ellsworth. Music courtesy of freesound.org

Ep. 63 National Law Enforcement Suicide Awareness Day 9/26 – revisiting my interview from Sept. 2021 with Inspector Steve Hough co-creator of Blue H.E.L.P.

To mark the four-year anniversary of my podcast I’m taking a look back and reposting a few episodes from the early days with content and issues that remain relevant today. This is about the tragedy of officer suicide, not just the loss of life, but how that loss of life is regarded. We are all keenly aware of the devastating frequency with which we see reports of yet another officer who has taken his or her own life. For many of you, these losses are not news reports – they are personal and painful. As I said when I aired this interview in 2021, I want to draw attention to this issue and the support that does exist to prevent suicide and do what small part I can to honor those we have lost.  So, for National Law Enforcement Suicide Awareness Day on Sept. 26, I’m reposting this interview with Inspector Steve Hough who along with Karen Solomon and Dr. Jeffrey McGill founded Blue H.E.L.P., a non-profit organization committed to honoring the service and sacrifice of law enforcement officers who have been lost to suicide and to supporting their families and loved ones. It is the only organization in the country that collects LE suicide data. Blue H.E.L.P. also works to de-stigmatize mental health and job stress issues and connects officers to wellness and treatment programs. Blue H.E.L.P. is the organization that in 2020 designated Sept. 26 as National Law Enforcement Suicide Awareness Day.  

At Blue H.E.L.P.’s website https://bluehelp.org/ you can find important information on services; stories of family members who have lost their LEO to suicide; the Honor Wall recognizing the service of those officers; and information on what you can do for National Law Enforcement Suicide Awareness Day.

Blue Help is part of First Help which extends the same honor and services to all first responders and military veterans lost to suicide. This month, First Help unveiled Heroes Memorial Park in Rockwall, Texas which features the monument they are creating on which the names of all first responders and military veterans lost to suicide will be etched. Here is a link with more information:

https://1sthelp.org/memorial-park/

And one programming note, this originally aired as I said in 2021 when we were in the midst of the pandemic; Covid for that period was taking more lives than we were losing to suicide. 

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©Abby Ellsworth. All booking, interviews, editing, and production by Abby Ellsworth. Music courtesy of freesound.org

Why I do this podcast – Four Year Anniversary! It was September 2020 – the height of the riots and civil unrest.  I had to find a way to stand up for all of you in law enforcement. The attacks – physical and emotional – and the toll they took were too much. I could not sit idly by. I could not be silent.  And so "On Being a Police Officer" began.

By then, I had already been working with law enforcement in my area for ten years after the tragic loss of five officers to ambush murders in late 2009, all in less than a month's time. Through the work I started in honor of them, I developed an understanding of and deep respect for those of you who put on that badge and go out there every day risking your own lives to protect ours. By 2020, I had to spread my message of support to a wider audience. I am grateful that through this podcast, I have been able to interview law enforcement from around the country and to tell your stories, your message to a national (even international) audience. 

“On Being a Police Officer” started as and still is a podcast with a mission, and that is to give law enforcement a voice so we can see the person in the uniform, the person behind the badge. Every story is unique, and yet every story shows the commitment, service and sacrifice you make.

By sharing these stories with a civilian perspective, my goal is to help law enforcement feel supported and appreciated, and to bring my fellow civilians along with me on this journey of understanding.

You can help me spread this message by continuing to listen and by sharing it with others. If you’re on Apple podcasts, please leave me a five-star review: scroll down the list of episodes until you see Ratings & Reviews. Tap the five stars and then scroll down again to where it says Write a Review. If you are on Spotify, hit Follow and then tap the gear icon to give me a five-star rating there. All of this helps push the podcast up in the algorithm and makes it discoverable to a wider audience. Thank you!! 

I also want to thank those of you who were with me from the start and who helped make this real. Sean, Linda, Nick, Britt to name a few. I also want to thank my husband and sister for always being my first listeners before each episode goes live. Your support means everything.

Thanks for listening to On Being a Police Officer. YOU are what keeps me going.

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©Abby Ellsworth. All booking, interviews, editing, and production by Abby Ellsworth. Music courtesy of freesound.org

Ep. 62 Justified or not? The Airman and the Deputy – Fatal Officer Involved Shooting – Breakdown with Daniel Carr of Police Law News. Once again, I am turning to Daniel Carr of Police Law News to break down a controversial, tragic incident. This is the incident involving an Okaloosa County Sheriff's Deputy and his response to a domestic disturbance that led to the use of deadly force that took the life of US Air Force Airman Roger Fortson on May 3, 2024. Mr. Fortson answered the door after the deputy announced himself. Mr. Fortson was holding his gun pointed down at the ground. The deputy perceived this as a deadly threat and used deadly force. The deputy was later fired and in August was arrested and charged with one count of manslaughter.

As Daniel and I say, this one is tough. There is much to be sad about. There are many opinions. There is much criticism. The media’s coverage at times is inflammatory and inaccurate. We wanted to discuss it in as fair a manner as possible.

You can find Daniel at Police Law News on all social media. Here is his IG handle: @Police.Law.News

And here is a link to Daniel's Substack article in which he breaks down the incident and which includes links to the body cam:

https://substack.com/@policelawnews/p-144492920

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©Abby Ellsworth. All booking, interviews, editing, and production by Abby Ellsworth. Music courtesy of freesound.org

Ep. 61  Lawful but awful? Unjustified? The Deputy Sean Grayson – Sonya Massey incident: a breakdown with Drew Breasy, host of The Comm Center and Daniel Carr of Police Law News. We are covering this together because this is a tough one and it requires thoughtful and thorough analysis. Both Drew and Daniel are returning guests. As many of you know, Drew retired as a lieutenant after serving 29 years with the Hillsborough County Sheriff’s Office and Daniel recently retired from the Albuquerque Police Department where he served for 20 years. He also holds a law degree. You’ll see where Daniel, Drew and I land on this one. 

To recap: On July 6, 2024, two deputies with the Sangamon County, IL Sheriff’s Office were dispatched to Sonya Massey’s home based on her 911 call of a possible prowler on her property. Deputy Sean Grayson and another responding deputy searched her property as well as nearby properties and found no prowler. They then contacted Sonya Massey to let her know their findings. It became clear to them that she was potentially experiencing mental health issues. They also had questions about a car with broken windows that was on her property. Both deputies entered the home. During their conversation, they asked her to turn off the pot of boiling water that was on her stove. As she moved toward the stove, she picked up the pot and said to Grayson, “I rebuke you in the name of Jesus.” Body cam shows her throw the pot at Grayson who sees this as a deadly threat or the threat of great bodily harm and uses deadly force.

There are many elements to this case that have caused great debate. Did she actually throw the water? Was deadly force justified? Much of this is exacerbated by other factors: Grayson had not turned on his body cam until after the shooting. His manner in issuing commands to drop the pot and his post-shooting behavior are questionable including delaying the rendering of aid.

As I say at the top of the episode, this one is tough. But before making my own decision as a civilian, I wanted to walk through it with Drew and Daniel, both of whom have covered this extensively. I encourage you to check out this episode of The Comm Center with Drew Breasy and Jonathan Bates during which they cover the 911 calls by Sonya Massey’s mother on July 5th and then the Grayson/Massey July 6th incident including body cam footage. Drew also has covered it on his own social media. And I encourage you to check out Daniel Carr’s coverage on his Police Law News content on social media and especially this Substack article.  You can find Drew and Daniel on all social media. Here are their IG handles:

@whatsaydrew

@policelawnews

Check out my prior interviews with both Drew and Daniel!!

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©Abby Ellsworth. All booking, interviews, editing, and production by Abby Ellsworth. Music courtesy of freesound.org

Ep. 60 In Part Two with Pete Forcelli, we discuss his promotion in 2007 to ATF Deputy Assistant Director of the Phoenix Division and the series of events that led him to turn whistleblower on the scandal known as Operation Fast and Furious. Pete documents it all in his new book “The Deadly Path: How Operation Fast and Furious and Bad lawyers Armed Mexican Cartels.”

It’s a page turning account of his shocking discovery that ATF agents were being ordered by federal prosecutors to let illegally purchased guns cross the border into Mexico so they could be tracked. Unfortunately, the ATF lost track of more than 1400 guns that were allowed to walk, two of them used in the murder of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry in 2010 and later were feared to have been used in the assassination attempt on Gabby Giffords.

When prosecutors responsible for the gun walking attempted to indict special agent turned whistleblower John Dodson, Pete stepped forward to testify before Congress. He did so at great peril to himself and his career.  It took four years for him to clear his name. This is not just an ATF story, this is not just a government story. It’s the story of a man who stepped forward to do the right thing, the cost of which took its toll. 

We also cover the Jean Baptiste Kingery grenade walking scandal. Pete and his team were able to get Kingery to confess to transporting inert grenades into Mexico to convert them into explosives. But the very same prosecutor behind Fast and Furious refused to approve Kingery’s arrest. Kingery was released and returned to Mexico to continue working with the cartels.

After testifying, Pete went on to hold a number of roles with ATF including as special agent in charge of the Miami Field Division during which he oversaw ATF's response to some of our country's worst mass shootings: at Fort Lauderdale Hollywood International Airport and at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland. And he led the investigation into the acquisition of the firearms that were used in the Pulse Nightclub Shooting. 

If you missed In Part One of my conversation with Pete in Ep. 59, we covered his time with NYPD walking a foot beat in the Bronx and later becoming a homicide detective.  He left NYPD after 15 years to join ATF in New York in June 2001. He was one of many who responded to Ground Zero on 9/11 and one of many diagnosed with lung cancer for which Pete has been successfully treated.

We pick up in Episode Two with Pete’s move to Phoenix.

You can find Pete’s book "The Deadly Path" on all major book retailers including Amazon. You can find Pete and get a signed copy of the book at his website. And you can find Pete on LinkedIn.  Here is info on his co-author Keelin McGregor in case you're looking for someone to help you write that book.

I would like to honor the work and sacrifice of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry. End of Watch Wednesday, December 15, 2010

https://www.odmp.org/officer/20596-border-patrol-agent-brian-a-terry

Agent Terry was a U.S. Marine Corps veteran and had served with the United States Border Patrol for 3 1/2 years. He had previously served as a police officer with the Lincoln Park, Michigan, Police Department. He is survived by his parents, brother, two sisters, five nieces, and one nephew.

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©Abby Ellsworth. All booking, interviews, editing, and production by Abby Ellsworth. Music courtesy of freesound.org

Ep. 59 ATF Deputy Assistant Director (Ret) and NYPD Homicide Detective (Ret) Pete Forcelli joins me to talk about testifying before Congress as a whistleblower in the Operation Fast and Furious scandal. Pete documents it all in his new book “The Deadly Path: How Operation Fast and Furious and Bad lawyers Armed Mexican Cartels.”

In this episode, Part One of my conversation with Pete, we begin with his career with NYPD. Pete started out walking a foot beat in the Bronx in 1987. Later, as a Homicide Detective, he conducted federal investigations into violent gangs involved in homicide or racketeering and was the lead NYPD investigator in the Sex, Money, Murder, Bloods RICO investigation and prosecution. As a result of this case, the leader and founder of the organization, Peter Rollack was sentenced to life, plus 105 years in federal prison. In all, Pete investigated more than 600 homicides.

After 15 years with NYPD, Pete left in June 2001 to become a Special Agent with ATF and continued investigating New York's most violent street gangs. Shortly after joining ATF, Pete would be called upon to respond to 9/11 working search, rescue, and recovery at Ground Zero. Like many who worked there, Pete was diagnosed with lung cancer for which he has been successfully treated. He often speaks of his experience at the 9/11 Museum in New York.

In Part Two, we cover Pete’s promotion in 2007 to ATF Deputy Assistant Director of the Phoenix Division, the role that would lead him to testify before Congress on Operation Fast and Furious. Pete's book, “The Deadly Path,” is a page turning account of that time. It covers his shocking discovery that ATF agents were being ordered by federal prosecutors to let illegally purchased guns cross the border into Mexico so they could be tracked. But that is not what happened. The ATF ultimately lost track of more than 1400 guns that were allowed to walk, two of them used in the murder of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry in 2010, a tragedy that helped set the wheels in motion to expose these practices.

When the very same prosecutors who allowed the guns to walk attempted to indict special agent turned whistleblower John Dodson, Pete also turned whistleblower and stepped forward to testify before Congress. He did so at great peril to himself and his career.  It took four years for him to clear his name.

He ultimately continued working with ATF including as special agent in charge of the Miami Field Division during which he oversaw ATF's response to some of our country's worst mass shootings: the shootings at Fort Lauderdale Hollywood International Airport and at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland. And he led the investigation into the acquisition of the firearms that were used in the Pulse Nightclub Shooting. In Part Two, we will cover his time with ATF.

You can find Pete’s book The Deadly Path on all major book retailers. Here is a link to get it on Amazon.

You can find Pete and get a signed copy of the book at his website. And you can find Pete on LinkedIn.

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©Abby Ellsworth. All booking, interviews, editing, and production by Abby Ellsworth. Music courtesy of freesound.org

Ep. 58 - Breakdown with Daniel Carr of Police Law News. This is a special episode to discuss an incident that took place in March 2024 involving Dexter Reed, a 26-year-old black male who was fatally shot while engaged in a gun battle with officers in Chicago following a traffic stop. He did not follow commands to roll down his window and exit the vehicle. He then shot a police officer, wounding him. Officers returned fire to stop the threat.

I don't often cover incidents that are in the news, but I felt this was important because of how it’s been portrayed and because there are elements that people have questions about. Of course, I don’t do it alone because I am not a police officer. I have enlisted expert help from my friend and returning guest Daniel Carr content creator of Police Law News.

By the time you hear this, there may be more information available than what we had. But as we sit here today, this is what we know: There's been a lot of focus – much of it critical – on the number of shots fired by police, which was 96. There's been a lot of discussion about why officers were not in typical police patrol uniforms, and there are people questioning the legality of the traffic stop which was for not wearing a seatbelt.

My goal in breaking this down with Daniel is to provide context and insight for people who do have questions on these factors because no one will get an accurate or fair portrait of the incident especially if you’re scanning the headlines and media coverage which over time has become not only more inflammatory and but also goes so far as to minimize or completely ignore and not report on basic facts. This is a conversation that examines all the pieces of this incident.

To find Daniel’s work on social media, go to any platform and simply search for Police Law News. Here are some handy links as well:

Facebook

Instagram

TikTok, Twitter and Substack Newsletter here: 

https://linktr.ee/policelawnews

Here is the link to view the body cam of this incident available on Police Activity’s YouTube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCTbZWylP8E

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©Abby Ellsworth. All booking, interviews, editing, and production by Abby Ellsworth. Music courtesy of freesound.org